Shirt.Woot : One Shirt, No Shoes, No Service (SM)

Re: Kid's Dream (mono ver.)

I can not decide which version looks better so I just put both up. Let me know which one you prefer!

Large View

Anyone cares to enlighten me what went wrong this time?

Don't tell me it is the thumbnail again...This is the best I can manage. And I thought its children's book kind of illustration style would catch some eyes.

choumore wrote:Anyone cares to enlighten me what went wrong this time?

Don't tell me it is the thumbnail again...This is the best I can manage. And I thought its children's book kind of illustration style would catch some eyes.

Since you asked me similar in another thread, I'll give you some thoughts here.

I think that part of it is the theme (the big line up the top of the shirt reads "exhaust trail of airplane" to me, but it's very minor, and does have the chance of looking like nothing but a big line of ink). Without an obvious link, some people might not be really having it resonate.

Past that, I think some of how things are anchored is an issue... odd placements are always iffy at woot, but more than the weight being mostly on the belly, I think that the boy looking like he's just floating in the middle of nowhere is a bit confusing, but then so too is the Toadstool-looking house in the distance. I feel like it might have some perspective issues as well which might be an issue (the way the "roof" looks, ie, and maybe even perceived distance from the kid).

One big thing, though, could be that people simply don't resonate as well as focal points as other objects to. I think this is frequently the case, to be honest, as we are people, and we have our own aesthetic tastes in people more so than in, say, cats or rabbits or squirrels. I personally find kids repulsive (I'm sure this is no revelation to regulars around here) and so I'd need a lot more than just a kid to make something like that purchasable. Many of the most successful "people shirts" either rely on parody and skilled enough execution to make the person in question obvious ("Who Wants to Live Forever," perhaps), have the people as almost a background or extra element, and keeps them subdued as imagery (tgentry's long reckoned "Watch it Grow" could show this) or else be so stylized as to make the "peopleness" of the people less important (note Walmazan's style). I think the biggest issue, though, is faces. This is why characters like Death can still get through, or why toy-like creations are OK... if a human representation is too real looking, you need emotion in them, and emotion is not easy to convey, especially if you're going for realism. In your case, of course, it could just be a lack of eyes.

All in all, though, it's hard to say why some pieces get attention and others don't. Here, what I'm seeing is a difficult to grasp scenario in an odd position, with a long white dash which is doing no compositional favors. It's not horrible (the style definitely has some whimsy, and is worth honing to see where you can take it), but it's also not too memorable. And sometimes that's worse for success than being flat out awful.

AdderXYU wrote:Since you asked me similar in another thread, I'll give you some thoughts here.

I think that part of it is the theme (the big line up the top of the shirt reads "exhaust trail of airplane" to me, but it's very minor, and does have the chance of looking like nothing but a big line of ink). Without an obvious link, some people might not be really having it resonate.

Past that, I think some of how things are anchored is an issue... odd placements are always iffy at woot, but more than the weight being mostly on the belly, I think that the boy looking like he's just floating in the middle of nowhere is a bit confusing, but then so too is the Toadstool-looking house in the distance. I feel like it might have some perspective issues as well which might be an issue (the way the "roof" looks, ie, and maybe even perceived distance from the kid).

One big thing, though, could be that people simply don't resonate as well as focal points as other objects to. I think this is frequently the case, to be honest, as we are people, and we have our own aesthetic tastes in people more so than in, say, cats or rabbits or squirrels. I personally find kids repulsive (I'm sure this is no revelation to regulars around here) and so I'd need a lot more than just a kid to make something like that purchasable. Many of the most successful "people shirts" either rely on parody and skilled enough execution to make the person in question obvious ("Who Wants to Live Forever," perhaps), have the people as almost a background or extra element, and keeps them subdued as imagery (tgentry's long reckoned "Watch it Grow" could show this) or else be so stylized as to make the "peopleness" of the people less important (note Walmazan's style). I think the biggest issue, though, is faces. This is why characters like Death can still get through, or why toy-like creations are OK... if a human representation is too real looking, you need emotion in them, and emotion is not easy to convey, especially if you're going for realism. In your case, of course, it could just be a lack of eyes.

All in all, though, it's hard to say why some pieces get attention and others don't. Here, what I'm seeing is a difficult to grasp scenario in an odd position, with a long white dash which is doing no compositional favors. It's not horrible (the style definitely has some whimsy, and is worth honing to see where you can take it), but it's also not too memorable. And sometimes that's worse for success than being flat out awful.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer me. I think you are definitely right on certain points. Obviously, my illustration of the chimney is so far from clear that you took it as a house in the distance (and thus all the perspective issue). I am kinda new to the designing field so my illustration skill is very immature. The idea was to have the kid sitting on the roof and watch the trail of the plane, an image of the leisure and peaceful life of a suburb kid. This to me is quite a good idea as it loosely fits the theme and offers a subtle expression with an aftertaste, which separates itself from the rest of the entries. May it be a cultural difference (I am from Asia so my aesthetic value may differ greatly from the western), it is apparently not a popular idea here, and you may be right about that people here prefer simple and direct illustration. Rarely do I see winners here are different from the category of in-your-face with bright vivid colors. Personally I see no reason why anyone would have any difficulty understanding the airplane trail. It is simply one step away from drawing an actual plane and it is more artistically appreciable in my mind. So is the kid with no eyes. I agree that it looks a little bit weird (and I think it def needs improvement on that segment) but it is better than putting everything out on the canvas.

About the "odd position", I really don't know what to say. Do people here really never get tired of the eternal across-the-chest or centered position? I noticed on other Tee design website such as Threadless or DBH, bolder positions are welcomed and they make the shirts look much more interesting than a 6-year-old's wardrobe.

I am quite intrigued about your idea of animals being more well received than people, and it could perfectly explain why every time the derby winners include designs of cute cats/squirrels/rabbits. I personally feel sad about this and I don't think it is worthwhile to compromise my design to cater such taste, so I guess either I will have to find a balance point to make my illustration of human more acceptable here or I will have to submit my entries elsewhere. But I truly appreciate your input. It helps me a lot to understand a Woot viewer's opinion and I guess the irreconcilable difference in artistic value makes little hope for my future entries.

choumore wrote:Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer me. I think you are definitely right on certain points. Obviously, my illustration of the chimney is so far from clear that you took it as a house in the distance (and thus all the perspective issue). I am kinda new to the designing field so my illustration skill is very immature. The idea was to have the kid sitting on the roof and watch the trail of the plane, an image of the leisure and peaceful life of a suburb kid. This to me is quite a good idea as it loosely fits the theme and offers a subtle expression with an aftertaste, which separates itself from the rest of the entries. May it be a cultural difference (I am from Asia so my aesthetic value may differ greatly from the western), it is apparently not a popular idea here, and you may be right about that people here prefer simple and direct illustration. Rarely do I see winners here are different from the category of in-your-face with bright vivid colors. Personally I see no reason why anyone would have any difficulty understanding the airplane trail. It is simply one step away from drawing an actual plane and it is more artistically appreciable in my mind. So is the kid with no eyes. I agree that it looks a little bit weird (and I think it def needs improvement on that segment) but it is better than putting everything out on the canvas.

About the "odd position", I really don't know what to say. Do people here really never get tired of the eternal across-the-chest or centered position? I noticed on other Tee design website such as Threadless or DBH, bolder positions are welcomed and they make the shirts look much more interesting than a 6-year-old's wardrobe.

I am quite intrigued about your idea of animals being more well received than people, and it could perfectly explain why every time the derby winners include designs of cute cats/squirrels/rabbits. I personally feel sad about this and I don't think it is worthwhile to compromise my design to cater such taste, so I guess either I will have to find a balance point to make my illustration of human more acceptable here or I will have to submit my entries elsewhere. But I truly appreciate your input. It helps me a lot to understand a Woot viewer's opinion and I guess the irreconcilable difference in artistic value makes little hope for my future entries.

I must be taking myself way too serious lol.

choumore wrote:Anyone cares to enlighten me what went wrong this time?

Don't tell me it is the thumbnail again...This is the best I can manage. And I thought its children's book kind of illustration style would catch some eyes.

Your design has been up for less than a day, and it's also the day after a night when quite a number of people might have been at parties. So give it a little time.

If you're looking for a lot of feedback on your designs, you might want to post preliminary sketches on the pre-derby threads before the derby opens. There's usually a lot of feedback there. This late in the process, you're going to get a lot less specific attention because there are so many other entries already posted.

On a personal note, yours is a nice design, but other than that, I don't have any useful comments. There's nothing where I'd say that I'd like it better if it was changed, but there's nothing in particular that I'd point to and say "wow" either. So as far as comments go, if I've got nothing useful to say, I'm probably not going to comment at all.

I agree with Adder in that I'm not overly fond of shirts that depict children. Or at least not where the child is the main focus of the piece. No idea why that is, though. And no idea if other people have the same reaction.

HalfWheat wrote:Your design has been up for less than a day, and it's also the day after a night when quite a number of people might have been at parties. So give it a little time.

If you're looking for a lot of feedback on your designs, you might want to post preliminary sketches on the pre-derby threads before the derby opens. There's usually a lot of feedback there. This late in the process, you're going to get a lot less specific attention because there are so many other entries already posted.

On a personal note, yours is a nice design, but other than that, I don't have any useful comments. There's nothing where I'd say that I'd like it better if it was changed, but there's nothing in particular that I'd point to and say "wow" either. So as far as comments go, if I've got nothing useful to say, I'm probably not going to comment at all.

I agree with Adder in that I'm not overly fond of shirts that depict children. Or at least not where the child is the main focus of the piece. No idea why that is, though. And no idea if other people have the same reaction.

Well, it is good to know that people have children/human issue here. This never occurs to me before and had it not been brought up I probably would never know. Growing up reading tons of manga/animation, I am particularly fond of human depiction. This may truly be a cultural thing.

Maybe I will try the pre-derby threads the next time, though not every of us have the time to actually make design in weekdays.

And thank you for the kind words. Never hurts to hear someone making positive comments about your work.

choumore wrote:Well, it is good to know that people have children/human issue here. This never occurs to me before and had it not been brought up I probably would never know. Growing up reading tons of manga/animation, I am particularly fond of human depiction. This may truly be a cultural thing.

Maybe I will try the pre-derby threads the next time, though not every of us have the time to actually make design in weekdays.

And thank you for the kind words. Never hurts to hear someone making positive comments about your work.

Hang in there. It might take a little while for you to figure out what catches attention, but I think you'll get there.

The funny thing about Adder's comment about children was that until I read it, I didn't realize I had that much of a bias. Some shirts with kids have appealed to me, but it has to be just right. Maybe it's because it's only appealing if you think that it's how you were as a kid, and if you don't empathize, it doesn't work. If it's a non-person, you don't have to empathize.

Re: Kid's Dream (mono ver.)

You definitely have talent as an illustrator. I think the main issue here is that the main image is that of a kid point upward. While I don't share adder's view on kids, I think the shirt needs more of a visual hook than a pointing kid. Tjost's "This Way Up" design is a good example. It features a kid front and center, but in the clear context that he's pretending to fly in a cardboard box.