Shirt.Woot

Re: 1979 - Oklahoma! Revival

llo, looks like my Pacman Colors, i love silhouettes :D

AttilaTheMom wrote:The more I look at this the more I like this guitar. If you were to rework this for submission at threadless or somewhere I'd suggest making the guitar smaller, and the disco ball bigger and more shiny. Right now it's a little too big, but has such a great expression I don't care.

I had considered that, but I also sort of wanted it to look huge. I could have added something in the background to help indicate its relative size, but then it might have looked too cluttered. Maybe I should have done something like Cho sometimes uses like a background of a color that is just a few shades darker than the shirt.

Re: 1998 - The moon

I was just reading through the massive amount of comments left here and I just wanted to comment on something that bluchez mentioned. He said that the orange made it look more organic - I believe that this was exactly the artist's intention. It's the CLEMENTINE satellite - she wanted it to look like an orange. And obviously she succeeded!

superspryte wrote:It's votable. I voted. ^_^

You're easy

AdderXYU wrote:Because this 12 year old is unable to separate her own work from this piece. You're offended by the implication that a younger artist can't produce good work, and you're offended by this because you're a younger artist who feels she can produce good work. Think of it another way: if you'd entered this week, and were being beaten by a 10 year old who drew worse than you, just because that artist was 10, would you not feel slighted? Wouldn't you think "man, I'm only 2 years older, and I can give a number of the adults a run for their money! Why am I not getting more votes?"

The derby should be run on quality, and the fact is that the vast majority of children are simply not going to submit quality. As the derby is right now, I have no problem with you playing the game, because your designs have shirt potential, but I can't see myself feeling bad to lose one artist talented beyond her years for the sake of blocking more of this sort of thing.

Adder, I seriously doubt woot is going to block kids off the sight because you don't like a design that happens to be by a kid. I have friends who draw really well and friends who don't. There are adults on the sight who draw really well and adults who don't. What makes up the fun of entering in a derby is seeing the votes rise up -- So I wouldn't care whether a design by someone younger got votes -- besides, I haven't even entered this contest.

jdrage wrote:
The age of the designer alone should not be a reason to shun an entry. Had the theme not given it away, would you have known the age of the submitter? Certainly, a design created by a 10-year-old is unlikely going to be of the same calibre as one created by a designer with 10 years of experience (unless he/she started at birth ). If the design isn't compelling, it won't get votes. But to me, part of the value of a shirt.woot shirt is the story behind it. And this certainly has a noteworthy story.

This design is certainly much better than some of the others submitted, by older artists! I only wish I had such talent!

eyeslikesugar wrote:lo l I can just picture a group of mad scientists building a wheel for a mouse out of cocktail straws and olives. =D

I have a photograph of that also, I happened to be ath this particular coffee shop at the time. If I get the appropriate theme, maybe I'll make a shirt out of that.

Josephus wrote:The adult designers you are so protective of, Adder, have submitted 34 entries with text in them, and at least 2 'boob' shirts,
19 without including the year in the title, and one of whom actually submitted shirts for two different years, apparently figuring no-one would notice.
This doesn't include all of the shirts rejected for too many colors, or using obviously copyrighted things or directly pixel for pixel copied artwork, or traced artwork.

These designers need reading lessons, and/or to attempt to comprehend what they've read. They don't need to be protected from one 10 year old kid.

...and you've decided to choose a 10 year old kid as your target of the week. nice work.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there are differences in the quality of work among the adult designers, just as there are among the more youthful ones. I don't think that excluding kids younger than, what, 16? is that old enough for you?
anyway, I don't really think that excluding the few kids that might be interested in submitting designs is going to affect the more adult designers in any way. They will continue to complain about how really crappy shirts win every week, and how woot is never going to be a quality place, all because of some other issue- clipart, or traced images, or whatever.

I think in general, the comments on this shirt have been pretty similar to the comments that used to show up on HeatherPickens shirts when she submitted. With two differences: 1) the shirt appears to be submitted properly in terms of the jpeg images that were posted, and 2) the designer's age was evident from the shirt title. So there wasn't the same kind of blatant bashing that sometimes happened, but there was sincere praise, which Pickens rarely got (the art is better than a lot of what she submitted, also, which contributes to that).

Overall, I'd say that the age may have affected the vote totals (that appears to be the case, based on the comments, though we have no way of knowing for sure). But even HeatherPickens was in the hotness a few times. So who knows? I'd say that there have been printed derby winners of lower quality than this. It's certainly not the worst entry this week by a longshot, and while there are things ranked lower that took more skill, it's also true to me that there are worse things ranked even higher. This kind of thing is inherent in a popularity contest, which is all a pure voting system ever is. If you need to hate on something, direct it at Woot for putting the system in place, not the individual artists using it to their advantage.

In the end, I'd rather be beaten by a nine year old than clip art. But what I'd prefer even more than that is being beaten by a nine year old who made a much better shirt than me. And truthfully, at least in terms of picking a marketable theme, that totally happened this week :D

Re: 1998 - The moon

thank you to everyone who commented. today was spent out of the house but a part of tomorrow will be spent distilling constructive criticism, learning about different choices she could have made, and talking about the negative comments, but with me filtering them, of course. I have a life outside woot, and this was a good distraction from our real-life problems today.

Because of the derby, she is now more interested in saving for a Wacom tablet than a Nintendo DS (yay!), and she has been working off her shirt purchases (no credit card, bluchez - Paypal) with chores, something that is good for everyone. I have tried to write more here about designers improving every derby through constructive criticism, but nothing has come out properly. I have read all the comments, and just can't respond to each one individually, but I have given thought to every point.

As for her shirt getting more votes than more deserving shirts, she is honestly upset by that. JadenKale is one of her favorite designers (3 Nessie shirts in our house), and she is so sad that [url=http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=13090]the great horse design/url] doesn't have more votes. Ditto for many, many other entries. Most of her votes have been for the entries with fewer votes. However, since there's no limit to the number of votes someone can cast, she encourages everyone to vote for the under-appreciated designs.

Many thanks to people who have been supportive, and to the people with constructive criticism!

SkekTek wrote:VERY nice! I loved SkyLab...

Glad you like it. Thanks for your support. :-)

tugnut1 wrote:I would love to have this shirt. I am a big fan of Pink Floyd and any spin the album Dark Side of the Moon is great. Love it, love it. Got to have it, got to have it.

Heheh... I'm glad you like it. I hope you get your shirt. :-)

volcomnator999 wrote:maybe cuz its a medical drug? not intended to be abused

I dunno. Elvis's drugs got the reject.

ilstu99 wrote:I dunno. Elvis's drugs got the reject.

no, Elvis' death thanks to drug OD or abuse got the reject. big difference

Josephus wrote:no, Elvis' death thanks to drug OD or abuse got the reject. big difference

Hmmm. Okay. I was just going from the rejected message, "No drugs," but okay.

dontwantaname wrote:I vote for, would buy and wear Laura's shirts because they are as good as the adults.
I voted for and would buy and wear M2MLA2's shirt because it has the innocience and beauty that only a child has.

You guys are just lucky that there are no mod links on these threads , or you would be on a "play nice" probation.

Playing nice is something you learn in kindergarten. Some of you must have forgotten.

Art should convey a feeling and this shirt does. It reminds me of being a child on a summer night looking at the moon and stars and wondering what it was like up there.
It conveys some of the best parts of being a child.

Laura's dragons, although they could have been drawn by an adult, still have the innocence and sweetness of a child. I showed one to my 21 year old son, and he would wear it too.

It is sad that an adult would be upset that a child was doing better then he was.


As the only mom mod (although we have an aunt mod) I'm going to view negitive comments posted in the thread of any child's shirt as an attack.
There are other threads that you can use to say stuff like this.
Keep it out of the thread that the child should be able to read.
It goes back to the old "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing.

You can express your view, but not here. Use the contest thread.

I would like some more guidance on what constitutes playing nice in terms of commenting on an entry in a contest.

As an artist, I enjoy getting feedback on my work- both favorable and unfavorable, as that is what tells me what areas need improvement. Are we denying children the ability to grow in this way? Because even in elementary school, my art classes involved critiquing.

I've yet to see anything in this thread as something that seemed like an attack on the artist, which is why I would like more feedback on this.

dontwantaname wrote:I vote for, would buy and wear Laura's shirts because they are as good as the adults.
I voted for and would buy and wear M2MLA2's shirt because it has the innocience and beauty that only a child has.

You guys are just lucky that there are no mod links on these threads , or you would be on a "play nice" probation.

Playing nice is something you learn in kindergarten. Some of you must have forgotten.

Art should convey a feeling and this shirt does. It reminds me of being a child on a summer night looking at the moon and stars and wondering what it was like up there.
It conveys some of the best parts of being a child.

Laura's dragons, although they could have been drawn by an adult, still have the innocence and sweetness of a child. I showed one to my 21 year old son, and he would wear it too.

It is sad that an adult would be upset that a child was doing better then he was.


As the only mom mod (although we have an aunt mod) I'm going to view negitive comments posted in the thread of any child's shirt as an attack.
There are other threads that you can use to say stuff like this.
Keep it out of the thread that the child should be able to read.
It goes back to the old "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing.

You can express your view, but not here. Use the contest thread.

Is it a case of moderation power abuse if they say something that requires negative comment? i can't reply to this apparently without getting probation.

These threads are FOR THE ENTRIES!!!! Where else are we supposed to express views if not here???? It's an attack on a child but not on an adult? It'd be the same shirt!!!!!!! And "Play Nice" probations? Yes, you learn that in Kindergarten, but once you get into the adult world you grow some damn thicker skin and accept that the real world doesn't have that rule. This is a bad entry, and it will be a bad entry forever, and if daring to say that is "not playing nice," probate the entire damn board. If a child is going to enter this contest, they need to be treated as an adult, like the rest of us. That means being honest, that means accepting that art isn't suddenly better if you drop the age of the artist, and that means voting for the design, not the artist. You would not be voting for this if i submit it. Why? Because it's unwearable without knowing a kid made it. Do you vote for every MS Paint design? No? Well, I guess you would if it was posted in EBW, but otherwise, I'm certain this is the only one you've voted on

Be a mod. That means being unbiased. Viewing these posts as attacks, any more so than if they were made to someone who was an adult, is not unbiased unless you view ALL these sorts of posts as attacks, no matter who the artist is, and WHOOPS there goes the whole board. If you're unable to be impartial, you don't deserve the title.

Re: 1984: Robots in Disguise

This is an awesome shirt, i hope i hope i hope it wins. Maybe the person who thinks its too complicated doesnt realize that the robot is made up of pieces of the power wheel. Hence transformer... They are power wheels people not trikes

carp wrote:This is an awesome shirt, i hope i hope i hope it wins. Maybe the person who thinks its too complicated doesnt realize that the robot is made up of pieces of the power wheel. Hence transformer... They are power wheels people not trikes

*giggles* i am confusing myself, I meant BIG WHEELS

Re: 1977: 2600: A Video Game Odyssey

60 day countdown begins in... 5... 4... 3... 2...

AdderXYU wrote:Is it a case of moderation power abuse if they say something that requires negative comment? i can't reply to this apparently without getting probation.

These threads are FOR THE ENTRIES!!!! Where else are we supposed to express views if not here???? It's an attack on a child but not on an adult? It'd be the same shirt!!!!!!! And "Play Nice" probations? Yes, you learn that in Kindergarten, but once you get into the adult world you grow some damn thicker skin and accept that the real world doesn't have that rule. This is a bad entry, and it will be a bad entry forever, and if daring to say that is "not playing nice," probate the entire damn board. If a child is going to enter this contest, they need to be treated as an adult, like the rest of us. That means being honest, that means accepting that art isn't suddenly better if you drop the age of the artist, and that means voting for the design, not the artist. You would not be voting for this if i submit it. Why? Because it's unwearable without knowing a kid made it. Do you vote for every MS Paint design?

Be a mod. That means being unbiased. Viewing these posts as attacks, any more so than if they were made to someone who was an adult, is not unbiased. If you're unable to be impartial, you don't deserve the title.

i had no intention of getting involved before this. after reading everything to this point i NOW applaud you adder. i am revolted that this has to happen in a childs thread. first, because both sides argueing about it is lunacy IMO. second, because exactly as you said, a child has no buisness entering if we cannot say the same things to them that are said to cho. HOW DARE any of you differentiate between entries on anything other than merit of design alone. we are not voting for a person you dolts, we are voting on a wearable shirt. there are child art competitions out there and if you want to buy a childs (or some other wooters regular entries for that matter) go there. all of this is repulsive and all of you, should be ashamed of yourselves. one side for putting this dreg in the derbies in the first place, and the other for feeling they have to bring it to the attention of anyone. anyone stupid enough to not understand what a competition is cannot be taught anyway.

mia3mom wrote:agreed. hence why I am filtering the comments for her.

Thus demonstrating you are a good parent, as I suspected from the start. :-)

mia3mom wrote:If people could only vote for a certain number of entries, i wouldn't have allowed her to enter, either. That just wouldn't be fair. But in this circumstance, I agreed to let her enter.

Again, a responsible attitude that shows your maturity. :-)

mia3mom wrote: As daedalusknight pointed out, there are a lot of kid-like artists out there, and some of them are surviving reckoning after reckoning.

Indeed. There's a whole market of people who want that kind of art on their shirts. And ties. And greeting cards. Mugs especially. I see them all over the place. Not what I would wear, but it's clearly marketable.

mia3mom wrote:I have sensitive kids, so they're used to me screening stuff.

Hehh... better keep them away from the test tube baby shirt discussion thread. :-)

Re: 1969- Great Moon Hoax

I think the landing was real, but the pictures were faked to make NASA look good. Without atmosphere on the moon the sun would be much too blinding to take some of the amazing photos that were taken. Especially since the cameras were on their chests and aiming was nearly impossible it seems ridiculous to believe that when you see the collaborations of all the pictures that they were all perfectly composed, framed, and without any conceivable error. Everything just simply looks way to good. Also the shadows in the pictures aren't parallel indicating a nearby light (not the sun) even though they did not bring any lighting with them to the moon.

geekfactor12 wrote:...I've yet to see anything in this thread as something that seemed like an attack on the artist, which is why I would like more feedback on this.

I guess most of Adder's posts seemed like attacks on the artist to me. He repeatedly has said that he thinks that kids shouldn't be allowed to submit to the derby, that it lowers the standards of the derby, that it's a black eye for woot that this kid not only entered but got around fifty votes (higher than that now, thanks to Adder). If that isn't an attack, what exactly is it? If he were talking about old people, or people of any recognizable ethnic or other minority group, it simply wouldn't be tolerated, but because he's talking about kids, it isn't a prejudiced attack? I think it has to be.

These comments all seem to be pretty harsh, and all directed toward the artist.

AdderXYU wrote:...It's the biggest black eye woot has as a contest...what legit designer would find woot, look at the derby, and consider it worth designing for if they found a shirt designed by a ten year old (which looks like it was designed by a ten year old) in the hotness? ...

AdderXYU wrote: ...i've seen monkeys paint, and the fact that they're monkeys doesn't make me want to buy it.

AdderXYU wrote:i can't believe I'm seriously arguing about a 10-year-old's design being wearable or not. Woot has seriously reached a new low.

Josephus wrote:The adult designers you are so protective of, Adder, have submitted 34 entries with text in them, and at least 2 'boob' shirts,
19 without including the year in the title, and one of whom actually submitted shirts for two different years, apparently figuring no-one would notice.
This doesn't include all of the shirts rejected for too many colors, or using obviously copyrighted things or directly pixel for pixel copied artwork, or traced artwork.

These designers need reading lessons, and/or to attempt to comprehend what they've read. They don't need to be protected from one 10 year old kid.

...and you've decided to choose a 10 year old kid as your target of the week. nice work.



I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there are differences in the quality of work among the adult designers, just as there are among the more youthful ones. I don't think that excluding kids younger than, what, 16? is that old enough for you?
anyway, I don't really think that excluding the few kids that might be interested in submitting designs is going to affect the more adult designers in any way. They will continue to complain about how really crappy shirts win every week, and how woot is never going to be a quality place, all because of some other issue- clipart, or traced images, or whatever.

You fail to make a very important distinction in all this, though... this is successful only because it's done by a kid. decomposition wasn't successful because Luke was 16, it was successful because it was a wearable design. Your daughter's work isn't successful because she's a kid, it's successful because she can draw, and draws cute. People LOVE cute. This is not wearable or drawn well (and is arguably not cute). I don't like this sort of thing from adults either, but the adults don't get pity votes. That is my issue. A ten year old putting up something that would get rejected by Highlights isn't the issue. Look further. This is a bad design, undeniably so without bias, and it is doing better than plenty of GOOD designs. I don't care about the boob designs, the idiots who can't follow simple no text rules... that all gets rejected, and it's hilarious when it does. This is on topic, but so far off quality. Most people who enter low quality don't see 25, let alone 50. This has surpassed both because it's a kid. And a design like this succeeding DOES have repercussions. You just may never see them, outside of in the form of more and more bad shirts from otherwise great artists.

Also, way to claim ageism about a post or two above this. I'm being crapart-ist. If a Black Arab pleasantly upbeat Woman submit this, it would still be bad. And people would say "this looks like a kid did it." Because it does. Would they be ageist, too? Would they be racist, homophobic, sexist, for hating a bad design? No. You're defending bad designs, and nothing more.

dontwantaname wrote:
<a lot of great stuff>
Keep it out of the thread that the child should be able to read.
It goes back to the old "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing."

thank you, Ms. Name, for your support as a mod. I respect the right of people to write things with which I disagree, even if I am saddened by some of the comments. I'm very glad that we had pre-arranged that I would be a filter for any comments on her entry. *phew*!

I *really* appreciate the constructive criticism offered - that will definitely help her grow as an artist. In general, she has a better flair for color and design than many people we know (including me), and this is a learning experience. She needs better tools, experience, and time before she submits another entry.

Today's posts were interesting reading, at least. Nothing dull.

Re: 1970: Black Sabbath Debut

I like this too Andy. Cool design. I was more into Ozzy then straight Sabbath but there are a lot Sabbath songs I really got into. Funny, when I was 16 I couldn't understand why my ma had such an issue with my going to church with my Black Sabbath patch on my ass--kids : )

mia3mom wrote:thank you, Ms. Name, for your support as a mod. I respect the right of people to write things with which I disagree, even if I am saddened by some of the comments. I'm very glad that we had pre-arranged that I would be a filter for any comments on her entry. *phew*!

I *really* appreciate the constructive criticism offered - that will definitely help her grow as an artist. In general, she has a better flair for color and design than many people we know (including me), and this is a learning experience. She needs better tools, experience, and time before she submits another entry.

Today's posts were interesting reading, at least. Nothing dull.

props to you as a mom for filtering the *stuff* that has appeared here.
just an FYI, there are children's contests where these entries would be safe from this lunacy. im not saying kids shouldnt enter here in any way, but perhaps starting in a child friendly atmosphere would be better suited for these designs. people that vote and buy are moms and kids, this might get you a better chance to print anyway.

Re: 1976 - Best car ever

GMV, but I'm kinda sad it's not a Camaro.

volcomnator999 wrote:maybe cuz its a medical drug? not intended to be abused

Same with my rejected Elvis perscription medical drugs... But I guess those were abused...

AttilaTheMom wrote: With more than 30 derbies to date, I think we can safely say that vitriolic bashing hasn't had the desired effect of limiting the derby to 'good' designs. So maybe we should try something different now? Maybe offering thoughtful and polite suggestions would improve the overall quality of submitted designs?

I completely agree. And I seem to be making small progress in that area. I've made polite comments about several shirts that I saw were in need of improvement or removal. So far it seems that several people have responded well to the comments, including even removing their shirt designs before Woot had a chance to reject them. I call that a positive step towards a better derby. I even see some other commenters following my comment patterns with similar sucesses (feel free to cut and paste like a form letter, I don't mind).

If your goal is to make this a better derby, please join in. Obviously, not everyone will respond well to polite requests. Some folks are just her to provoke a negative reaction. When you give them that reaction it is, as they say, feeding the trolls. Let's do what we can to starve them out, yes?

dontwantaname wrote:I vote for, would buy and wear Laura's shirts because they are as good as the adults.
I voted for and would buy and wear M2MLA2's shirt because it has the innocience and beauty that only a child has.

You guys are just lucky that there are no mod links on these threads , or you would be on a "play nice" probation.

Playing nice is something you learn in kindergarten. Some of you must have forgotten.

Art should convey a feeling and this shirt does. It reminds me of being a child on a summer night looking at the moon and stars and wondering what it was like up there.
It conveys some of the best parts of being a child.

Laura's dragons, although they could have been drawn by an adult, still have the innocence and sweetness of a child. I showed one to my 21 year old son, and he would wear it too.

It is sad that an adult would be upset that a child was doing better then he was.


As the only mom mod (although we have an aunt mod) I'm going to view negitive comments posted in the thread of any child's shirt as an attack.
There are other threads that you can use to say stuff like this.
Keep it out of the thread that the child should be able to read.
It goes back to the old "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing.

You can express your view, but not here. Use the contest thread.

W_T_F is a play nice probation?

artulo wrote:Why on earth does this have sixty-something votes? Discouraging, indeed.

Partly because some people like childlike art on shirts.

Partly because when people make mean comments about a shirt it tends to drive up the vote count. The more heated discussion there is about a shirt... the more arguing... the better it tends to do.

superspryte wrote:Yeah it's the Broncos Logo's girlfriend. ^_~

I created it first before I saw this logo again. As it was, after I had somewhat finished my design, I asked if it would look better if it stayed on black (which I originally designed it on) or navy. It was then brought to my attention that if I put it on navy, it would drum up ideas that I tried to fashion it after the logo, which was never my intent. I worked with the idea a little longer and I submitted what you see here. But it was going to be a full horse to begin with. I changed it part way through and felt that it was better as the bust with the constellation behind it since the constellation is just the head of the horse.

jenny78 wrote:I think EVERYONE would have a pretty good idea that this was drawn by a child even if the theme wasn't the year you were born. C'mon. Say it was for an outer space themed derby, we'd all know it was drawn by a child. If not, then everyone would berate the adult that had the audacity to enter such a 'childish' design, and it would have gotten rejected for the use of text.

I think you're right. But, like I said before, I know a guy in the greeting card business who makes child-like art for a living. He's in his mid-thirties. He's very convincing. And he sells a lot of cards.

dontwantaname wrote:You can say it here. You can start a thread in world of woot shirts and argue your point all you want.
I found the post in the thread for that shirt.
I have no problem with it being here.

As a mom I have a problem with fact you posted the comment back in the thread for the shirt when you knew it was a child.
The same post to an adult wouldn't have bothered me.

So I should post all derby related items, such as comments on individual shirts, in world of woot shirts, not in the threads the staff provided to talk about individual shirts?

Also, you're made of bias. A kid came to an adult forum. They are getting an adult forum experience. Make up rules with your own kids, not with adults.