Shirt.Woot

siobhan13 wrote:It seems funny that all this bitterness is really so strong. I don't know, am I the only one that thinks this jealousy is funny? They're shirts on woot for goodness sake, people. Get over yourselves.

But it's hardly something to just dismiss as "it's a shirt. get over it" when there's plenty of designers out there who most likely submitted great work and got turned down for stuff like this. granted, this sold out (cause of the woot-off? who knows) but many of the designs they pick sell poorly and i'm 100% positive there were plenty of other designs they declined that would have sold much better and been received better by the community.

hmmxkrazee wrote:But it's hardly something to just dismiss as "it's a shirt. get over it" when there's plenty of designers out there who most likely submitted great work and got turned down for stuff like this. granted, this sold out (cause of the woot-off? who knows) but many of the designs they pick sell poorly and i'm 100% positive there were plenty of other designs they declined that would have sold much better and been received better by the community.

Not even the stuff that didn't get selected for print, but the stuff that did. If next week this makes the top 20, I would be INSANELY ticked if I was the shirt in 21st after the reckoning.

It would be interesting to know if the rights were purchased before the shirt was chosen to be printed and the artist paid. Or, after the "forums" found it on google.
As an artist and a consumer, it does seem relevant.

AdderXYU wrote:With all due respect, I am incredibly and honestly baffled by what this shirt has that would make someone with such illustrative skill praise it, and would be grateful to find out. it just seems odd that someone I know has worked hard at their craft would be enthusiastic over live-traced, copyrighted broccoli, and I'm wondering what I'm missing.

I think it's the half circle smile..yup thats it. I knew there was art in there somewhere.

joelterrific wrote:Oh...you don't like the shirt and you wish something else had been printed. That's a sentiment I'm intimately familiar with and is echoed daily if not hourly in these fine forums. You'll forgive me if that's an argument I've become somewhat desensitized to.

Fair enough. I've stated why I think this shouldn't have printed. I'd be interested to know why you decided to. Since you're desensitized to such arguments, I'd imagine it's because your selections are made via rigid quality standards, and I think many of us would be interested in knowing what they are.

AdderXYU wrote:Lazy argument. Every business is about making money, but not every business is soulless and willing to do anything for the almighty dollar. That's why local businesses still exist in the midst of the conglomo-boom. That's why so many small internet niche markets thrive. People want a product that has respect for itself. Chik-Fil-A still turns profit despite being so Christian they won't open on Sundays. Woot could also turn profit by caring a bit more about their own mission statement: "Woot tees feature exclusive, original designs that you can’t get anywhere else (hence the terms “exclusive” and “original”)." What is original here?

If you hate woot so much, why are you still here?

I fa il to see the argument that woot is "soulless." I don't think Chik-fil-a is any more soulful than McDonalds. The only way to judge a business is by the product that it offers to its customers, and woot has clearly failed with some of its customers and succeeded with others. As long as the latter category exceeds the former, and continues to grow, woot has no reason to change what they're doing. If enough people buy into the soulless argument, then maybe change will come, but I doubt it. Walmart is by far the most popular department store.

There is a vast difference between "getting nowhere" and "not becoming Bill Gates." You can turn profit by sticking to your heart over your pocketbook, because people will see your devotion to your product and stick around... not in the droves woot gets, but in numbers enough that you can stay afloat. That's what any true artist should aim for in their art. If I wanted to make a quick buck I'd just buy some "how to draw anime" books and practice practice practice. But I think to many people here, it's about more than copying a style (or a photo, or the exact concept of Greasy Grasp of God). I find it impossible how any designer can not understand the difference, unless they are saying "I want to make a fast grand without effort, too." News flash: effort is thankfully the last thing woot seems to look for. They've got room for about one effort piece a week, at best.

Anime style is not profitable unless you know where to go with it; it's also much more difficult to draw than you would think, especially if you're trained in drawing more traditional types of art (people usually focus on certain parts of the anime style without noticing how other parts match with it). Generally anime is shunned in the art community.

If your goal is to simply stay afloat, then that's fine, but to me, that is getting nowhere. If you want to be a successful graphic designer or concept artist, then there must be something about your art that appeals to people.

joelterrific wrote:
The goal here is to get as many artists interested and participating as possible. I think they understand that it's a competitive place.

what is the art in artists, to you.?

joelterrific wrote:I'm sincerely interested to know what battle is going on. Despite Adder's assumption that I don't care about what goes on here and am only in it to make a buck, I'm always open to suggestions for how we can improve the site, the experience and the shirts. Unfortunately, it rarely comes up in a constructive and collaborative way. It seems to involve a lot of shouting and wild accusations.

I completely understand that an artist may become disenchanted with the site and frustrated that their designs are passed over. We print 365 shirts in a year, there are bound to be some disappointed people. But I take the submissions seriously, review each and every one, and have to pick some over others.

The goal here is to get as many artists interested and participating as possible. I think they understand that it's a competitive place.

The problem is, I DON'T think you're only in it to make a buck. I'm pretty damn sure most of the designers are, though, which is what makes selections like this so disheartening. It's not a matter of what I do or don't like, or what someone else does or doesn't like, or what will or won't sell, so much as what will make a great shirt, and when we see shirts like this come up, or the rocket a few days ago, or something like Snowman win an EC, it makes people like me wonder why I put effort in to support artistic effort, and makes artists wonder why they put in effort to do anything they'll be proud of.

There have been many collaborative discussions on these boards regarding how to better the site, but what it comes down to is more respect for your artists. More respect for the work they put in, more respect for the rules you set forth in derbies... there can be a happy medium, but in the last number of months I see no medium. I see dailies and derbies blending more and more often. Surely you must wonder also when a skilled designer releases a less-than-representative design.

Woot is competitive, yes, but it seems like it's reverse competition sometimes. It's a hard-fought battle, but not against the best shirts but the most mediocre. Seeing that same line of competition in dailies is incredibly disheartening for the people who see woot as what it could be instead of what it is. Designers don't get disheartened at not winning or printing... they get disheartened knowing what beat them. They don't give up like a child losing Monopoly, but an employee quitting their job after seeing scads of way less qualified workers get promotions. To look at it another way, when Gentry becomes as rare an appearance as Cho, will you rationalize that your two winningest designers departed because the competition was too stiff?

joelterrific wrote:I'm sincerely interested to know what battle is going on. Despite Adder's assumption that I don't care about what goes on here and am only in it to make a buck, I'm always open to suggestions for how we can improve the site, the experience and the shirts. Unfortunately, it rarely comes up in a constructive and collaborative way. It seems to involve a lot of shouting and wild accusations.

I completely understand that an artist may become disenchanted with the site and frustrated that their designs are passed over. We print 365 shirts in a year, there are bound to be some disappointed people. But I take the submissions seriously, review each and every one, and have to pick some over others.

The goal here is to get as many artists interested and participating as possible. I think they understand that it's a competitive place.

i think maybe the reason adder sounds so jaded is the same reason (overall) that i have become jaded with shirt woot too. you say you are always open to suggestions, but joel, often your response to suggestions have been less than terrific. quite often when the Manos, the Hands of Fate is hitting the proverbial fan there is no response whatsoever. now, dont get me wrong. i know you are a busy man. but one of the most basic beefs with this site over all the others is that NOBODY knows if they will be rejected or not, if they are within the lines or not. i have said it MANY MANY times in forums in emails in every damn thing that you need to make comprehensive solid rules. not "oh hey lets let some designers post what they think might be the rules today" but a real set of rules that is EASY TO FIND.
if your rule system was concrete, people would have less room for complaints.
lets just say to stay on topic, you allow certain types of images and not others. YOU may have it all clear in your head what does and does not fly here, BUT THE REST OF US DONT. make where you stand ABUNDANTLY clear, and make it FINDABLE. will adder like all the things that you accept then ? HELL NO, but he cant very well argue if it is or is not a legitimate shirt if HE HAS PROOF. this problem is made worse by your refusal to be consistant in rejections. trust me, i see your side here.... why bother rejecting something with 4 votes? ill tell you why. you reject EVERYTHING that isnt up to snuff and you wont get as many crappy submissions, people will know you mean business and will follow the rules better. AND THEY WILL KNOW WHERE YOU FRIGGIN STAND!
i hope you think this was constructive enough to be taken seriously. this really honestly used to be my favorite shirt site, and i have given you guys hundreds of my dollars. but if you look over my accounts, you might notice they are coming less and less. joel im not buying fewer shirts, im buying fewer here. no, im not being a Druish princess and threatening to leave, yeah im gonna buy stuff in the future... but i find less and less reason to hang around here. i lost faith that you give a Manos, the Hands of Fate if im here or not. all im saying, is maybe instead of saying im being an ratholes... take a moment to see my side of it?

peppersagooddog wrote:i think maybe the reason adder sounds so jaded is the same reason (overall) that i have become jaded with shirt woot too. you say you are always open to suggestions, but joel, often your response to suggestions have been less than terrific. quite often when the Manos, the Hands of Fate is hitting the proverbial fan there is no response whatsoever. now, dont get me wrong. i know you are a busy man. but one of the most basic beefs with this site over all the others is that NOBODY knows if they will be rejected or not, if they are within the lines or not. i have said it MANY MANY times in forums in emails in every damn thing that you need to make comprehensive solid rules. not "oh hey lets let some designers post what they think might be the rules today" but a real set of rules that is EASY TO FIND.
if your rule system was concrete, people would have less room for complaints.
lets just say to stay on topic, you allow certain types of images and not others. YOU may have it all clear in your head what does and does not fly here, BUT THE REST OF US DONT. make where you stand ABUNDANTLY clear, and make it FINDABLE. will adder like all the things that you accept then ? HELL NO, but he cant very well argue if it is or is not a legitimate shirt if HE HAS PROOF. this problem is made worse by your refusal to be consistant in rejections. trust me, i see your side here.... why bother rejecting something with 4 votes? ill tell you why. you reject EVERYTHING that isnt up to snuff and you wont get as many crappy submissions, people will know you mean business and will follow the rules better. AND THEY WILL KNOW WHERE YOU FRIGGIN STAND!
i hope you think this was constructive enough to be taken seriously. this really honestly used to be my favorite shirt site, and i have given you guys hundreds of my dollars. but if you look over my accounts, you might notice they are coming less and less. joel im not buying fewer shirts, im buying fewer here. no, im not being a Druish princess and threatening to leave, yeah im gonna buy stuff in the future... but i find less and less reason to hang around here. i lost faith that you give a Manos, the Hands of Fate if im here or not. all im saying, is maybe instead of saying im being an ratholes... take a moment to see my side of it?

YES YES YES YES YES ding ding ding we have a winner.!!!!!!!!!!!!!


General Guidelines
Submission should include 240px x 240px detail image.
Submission should include 600px x 600px shirt image showing placement.
Submission should include print ready file up to 16" x 20" and 300dpi or vector.
No controversial topics.
No street signs.
No profanity. No toilet humor
No direct resubs from previous derbies.
Design should be at least 1 inch from each seam.
No nudity.
Pantone Solid Coated color swatches should be used.
No color translucency.
No photos.
Maximum of 6 spot colors.

jamesbottomtooth wrote:good luck. this one will be tough product to move.
i keep wondering what woot's requirement for a weekly shirt is.
"shirt to paint a garage in" or "shirt to use to dry your dog after rain"

Tough to move????????? I sold out in 10 hours - so much for that.

ChefRAZ wrote:YES YES YES YES YES ding ding ding we have a winner.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only con is that the post is mostly based on derbies, while this is a daily. Otherwise I totally agree.

I know it's hard to see how critiques, especially those bolstered by frustration and anger, can be meaningful, but most of the people who get most worked up about this sort of thing do so because they care about woot as a site. I've never submit a daily. I don't think I have the skills to. I don't even submit to derbies because they're no longer fun. What profit does my complaining stand to net me, more shirts? Sure, my purchases might go up, but I haven't been able to buy much of anything recently... that'd be an insanely shallow profit. I've simply become invested in woot and its designers, and want to see the best succeed. That's natural enough... check out Threadless, you'll note that their community is just as passionate, but actually happy and friendly with each other. Wonder what's the difference...

Just wanted to say that I think it's wonderful that Joel is saying something here.

Re: suggestions to improve shirt.woot, there's a nice thread over here with much less yelling.

I'm still curious as to whether the purchase of the commercial rights to that image was done beforehand by Cheese or after the fact by Woot. I am hoping for the former, but if it's the latter I hope that some measure was taken to prevent this from happening again. It wouldn't be good precedent to let this sort of thing go.

I can't remember which shirt it was, but does everyone remember the TeeFury shirt that was printed that was still under contract from a Woot derby? That was another situation that seemed a bit on the bizarre side.

AdderXYU wrote:The only con is that the post is mostly based on derbies, while this is a daily. Otherwise I totally agree.

I know it's hard to see how critiques, especially those bolstered by frustration and anger, can be meaningful, but most of the people who get most worked up about this sort of thing do so because they care about woot as a site. I've never submit a daily. I don't think I have the skills to. I don't even submit to derbies because they're no longer fun. What profit does my complaining stand to net me, more shirts? Sure, my purchases might go up, but I haven't been able to buy much of anything recently... that'd be an insanely shallow profit. I've simply become invested in woot and its designers, and want to see the best succeed. That's natural enough... check out Threadless, you'll note that their community is just as passionate, but actually happy and friendly with each other. Wonder what's the difference...

a Submission is just that. they should be treated the same.. voted on by woot or members.

AdderXYU wrote:The only con is that the post is mostly based on derbies, while this is a daily. Otherwise I totally agree.

I know it's hard to see how critiques, especially those bolstered by frustration and anger, can be meaningful, but most of the people who get most worked up about this sort of thing do so because they care about woot as a site. I've never submit a daily. I don't think I have the skills to. I don't even submit to derbies because they're no longer fun. What profit does my complaining stand to net me, more shirts? Sure, my purchases might go up, but I haven't been able to buy much of anything recently... that'd be an insanely shallow profit. I've simply become invested in woot and its designers, and want to see the best succeed. That's natural enough... check out Threadless, you'll note that their community is just as passionate, but actually happy and friendly with each other. Wonder what's the difference...

i guess i wasnt clear enough in my post that it was meant for dailies as well.
the guidelines for dailies are even more abstract than the derbies, try to step out of your knowledge for a second and see the "rules" or lack thereof as a person NOT familiar with shirt sites or laws.... you know like a 16 year old.... might see it.
what about how someone that isnt exactly computer savvy sees it?
now im not saying this artist fits any of those catagories... but on the other hand... what about someone that prints alot like she does? vague rules leave open loopholes big enough to jump a picture one off a google page through.

concertFreak wrote:cute shirt.

may need to buy it.

This is a shirt totally made for vegetarians or wanna be vegetarians.

yup- it sure is, i was going to buy it for my niece-

it reminds me of another shirt- the "yay taco" shirt

AGrant311 wrote:I can't remember which shirt it was, but does everyone remember the TeeFury shirt that was printed that was still under contract from a Woot derby? That was another situation that seemed a bit on the bizarre side.

And it was resolved by, to the best of my knowledge, the designer keeping his teefury money, getting a second teefury print in the next two weeks, and having the design make it into the next doubletake, albeit removed eventually.

Yeah, we're all just jealous and whiny.

GREAT SHIRT!!!!

YEsss

I don't think I've ever posted anything criticizing the way shirt.woot is run. I love this place: it gives me warm fuzzies. I often will buy a shirt from here versus another site, not b/c of the price difference or the use of blanks (most of the t-shirts sites use AA-quality or an equivalent), but because after as many purchases as I've made here, the satisfaction w/ the product, and the quality of the customer service, I've got that elusive thing that marketers always aim for: brand loyalty. I just love woot shirts beyond rational reason, and I find myself constantly getting rid of old t-shirts in my wardrobe (Goodwill, mostly) to make room for more woots.

The shirt today is cute and appealing, but I must admit that my first reaction was, "how is this not yay taco but with a vegetable instead?" That being said, I still thought about getting one for my nephew (his mother's a vegetarian and would _love_ this shirt).

But when it came out this was a livetrace of a copyrighted photo . . .

I guess here's my problem Joel--these shirts are marketed as original works. When the concept is lifted from someplace else and the actual _image_ that forms the main basis of the shirt is lifted from someplace, well, how is it even an original work anymore? I've never criticized the use of clipart on principle b/c how it's arranged is all part of the art of design as far as I'm concerned. But if the image is from elsewhere and the basic idea is from elsewhere as well, that's a different matter entirely.

Even taking all of that into account, I wouldn't be posting this if I knew that the designer told you about the picture ahead of time and you guys arranged for use of the image before posting up today's shirt. You weren't really specific in your explanation, though, Joel. We still don't know if you had to bail out the designer after the fact by paying off the owner of the image. If that's what happened then I can see how you acted completely properly, but the designer most definitely did not.

If the designer was not open with you then, as a consumer, I would like for the designer to be punished, perhaps by having payment refused for breach of the artist agreement contract quoted earlier in this thread. Not punished out of some sense of malice, but so that there is disincentive to repeat IP theft in the future. Without being 100% transparent with your customers and designers, you're basically leaving the possibility open that IP theft is ok and that there are no penalties for it.

The designers, well, I can see why they'd be pissed at that. But as a consumer, I'm worried that this just means that every week we'll have one shirt where someone steals an image. And I don't want my money going towards someone who would do that. I don't shop at businesses where I don't like where the money is going, and if I know my money is funding dishonest designers, I'll be less likely to spend my money there.

If, of course, the image was paid for ahead of time, great, end of controversy. Just please let us know.

I love the site, and I'm really doing my best to be respectful to all the hard work the woot staff does--I know it can't be easy dealing with such a vocal, opinionated community.

edit: Clarified one of my sentences.

AdderXYU wrote:
Woot is competitive, yes, but it seems like it's reverse competition sometimes. It's a hard-fought battle, but not against the best shirts but the most mediocre. (................................................................................)
To look at it another way, when Gentry becomes as rare an appearance as Cho, will you rationalize that your two winningest designers departed because the competition was too stiff?

While I don't think that derby winners are always the "best" shirts in the competition, the bottom line is that, as a general trend, they sell in the order that they placed. And they generally sell more than dailies. Obviously, this isn't always the case and there are other factors involved, but when it comes down to it, the people who vote are also the people who buy. If the market on woot is changing over time and the result is that more mediocre entries are voted to the win, then it should be no surprise that dailies would follow suit. There are some really bizarre things that make it as dailies, but ultimately, the people that you seem to want as daily selections are the same people who "should" be winning derbies, but aren't. I don't think it's woot's responsibility to necessarily promote these people when the majority of its users don't. I think your complaints are valid in theory, but I think that NOT reckoning this shirt would be more of a mistake than anything, because it would just lead to more complaints about anything that's questionable. This is one shirt out of 365 this year, if this is the most offensive thing that's happened then I think woot is doing pretty well. Obviously you don't think that's the case, and you are just letting out a lot of pent up frustration at the site. Even if its sad if cho and gentry post less frequently, you've had plenty of opportunities to get shirts from them, and I highly doubt that they will disappear altogether. Maybe I just don't know enough about the site because I haven't been here for long enough, but I've at least been here for long enough to see how much people love to complain. I think the reason that nothing gets done is that, while there are a few loud dissenting voices, there is an overwhelming silent support for the site that can be seen in the fact that this shirt sold out in 10 hours despite all this controversy. The only way you are going to bring about any change is if you can convince woot that you aren't coming out of left field. Ultimately, no matter how much soul the site might have, it's too big at this point to be considered a niche market, and unless it wants to downsize, it has to continue to appeal to the masses, at least some of the time. If you want things to change, I feel that you need to convince people that a new system would be better rather than complain about the current one. You should know better than anyone else that complaining on this site gets nothing done.

This discussion has become way too convoluted with the usual gripes to be able to get an answer. Stop whining about other things, what art is or isn't, it's frakking annoying, we know we know what you think.

All I want to know is the following, based on the presumption that woot, not the artist, had to purchase the rights to the design after the design posted.

1) What is going to happen to the artist? Will there be any kind of disciplinary action taken - in other words, a deterrent against this happening in the future?

IndependentVik wrote:
If, of course, the image was paid for ahead of time, great, end of controversy. Just please let us know.

Just for the record, if the image was paid for ahead of time, it was still not paid for by the artist and was still sketchy regardless.

That said, I honestly cannot foresee an issue of image theft moving forward. First of all, I feel that the shirts chosen as dailies are too different as a whole to imagine more photographic shirts anytime soon, so this specific issue doesn't seem like something that could happen as a theme, but more importantly, if woot gets flooded with stolen/borrowed images, I really don't see them continuing to select them over something that the community hasn't seen. But I've been wrong before.

Plus, more importantly, I feel that the types of people who would try to take advantage of this are the types of people that would never ever be considered for dailies anyway. As much as anyone may hate to admit it, this is a significantly more successful and appealing design than the average person is able to do, and I think most people that would be capable of doing something like this either have too much self respect or would be too afraid of public outcry to try something like this again.

Overall, I would be satisfied with just having the artist pay for the fee for the use of the image, and then have a strict rule against the use of copyrighted images, even if they can be bought, moving into the future. I think it would be a fairly easy rule to implement, and I'm sure there are plenty of designs that can be chosen that fall under this category that would do just fine as shirts. Non-photo shirts have sold out before too.

Zenne wrote:This discussion has become way too convoluted with the usual gripes to be able to get an answer. Stop whining about other things, what art is or isn't, it's frakking annoying, we know we know what you think.

All I want to know is the following, based on the presumption that woot, not the artist, had to purchase the rights to the design after the design posted.

1) What is going to happen to the artist? Will there be any kind of disciplinary action taken - in other words, a deterrent against this happening in the future?

nm then llo

ah man....... i really wanted this shirt... why does it have to be sold out

joelterrific wrote:I'm missing the fairness argument here since the commercial rights to the image were available from the photographer and purchased. There's no 'stealing' going on here, he took these photos with the express purpose of other people paying to use them.

The fonts, clipart, stock photography used every day in all kinds of creative endeavors are tools of the trade. They, without question, must be paid for and used according to the requests of the creator. It doesn't mean you have to buy the shirt, or even like it, but there's nothing scandalous going on here.

The controversy is the assumption that the artist didn't pay for the copyrighted image ahead of time or at least let you know that they were using a copyrighted image.

If they purchased it already, there is no controversy. Please clarify.

joelterrific wrote:

the meetings

love to be a fly on the wall in one of those. got a webcam setup yet?

joelterrific wrote:It's good this discussion is moving to more productive suggestions. I will say that I'm not able to catch up with all the activity here all the time. I've been working on something that may help to explain to the community the genesis of my recent more 'hands-off' policy toward the derby entries. I'm sure it will raise more questions than it answers, but it will at least give some insight into why I think this community's strength comes from the users and not from the decisions I make about what shirts to sell.

As for daily shirts: they are still commissioned, curated, whatever you want to call it. I'm proud of every one and as much as I'd like to be able to express, coherently, my logical and fair reason for my selections I know that I can't.

I want our shirts to be a source of entertainment, with a smattering of whatever we'll call creative/artistic expression, and of course, I want them to sell. But mostly, it's idea of giving designers a chance to plunk themselves down in front of our fine if not often outspoken public that gets me excited. It's giving designers, (some known, some obscure) a place to say "Hey I made this, I hope you like it."

Shirt.Woot is not the final word on issues of art, or fairness, or integrity. It's an ever-changing, always interesting cauldron of ideas and we're always trying to get better.

Back to the overflowing inbox, the meetings, and the philosophical demons you've all set free in my head. Thanks...and yes, that's sarcastic.

Somehow, I don't think sarcasm is the way to solve this uproar. And you still haven't answered the question of copyright that some of the artists have been asking.

joelterrific wrote:I've been working on something that may help to explain to the community the genesis of my recent more 'hands-off' policy toward the derby entries.

iris420 wrote:Somehow, I don't think sarcasm is the way to solve this uproar. And you still haven't answered the question of copyright that some of the artists have been asking.

his sarcasm was only the last damn word.
he wasnt really thanking us for all the turmoil.
re-read his post.

oh but yeah, he is still not off the hook for the copyright question. carry on.

peppersagooddog wrote:his sarcasm was only the last damn word.
he wasnt really thanking us for all the turmoil.
re-read his post.

oh but yeah, he is still not off the hook for the copyright question. carry on.

4 hours til new woot. he's "off the hook".

Hell, this carp has been sold out so long now that most of the lemmings have probably forgot they even jumped off this cliff. This is old news, and like all old news, it has been left to die by ignoring it.

Which we should all read as "We knew it was copyrighted after you did, and want to protect our designer, so she can sell us another face on something from page 2 of google, and hopefully then you won't notice." Had they bought the rights first (and I'm still marveling that they'd pay royalties for a picture of broccoli at all) we wouldn't still be asking.

Honestly, I don't see how this product sold out.

joelterrific wrote:The goal here is to get as many artists interested and participating as possible. I think they understand that it's a competitive place.

if this isn't a quote that says, "we just want to print a bunch of shirts that appeal to different folks in order to move the most quantity regardless of the quality of those designs", i don't know what is.

i would be really curious to find out the ages of people who bought this shirt too. this sell out reeks of teenagers and twenty-somethings with waaaay too much disposable income on their hands.

peppersagooddog wrote:his sarcasm was only the last damn word.
he wasnt really thanking us for all the turmoil.
re-read his post.

oh but yeah, he is still not off the hook for the copyright question. carry on.

Duly noted. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

edit: I didn't think his whole post was sarcasm. I guess I just thought I needed an opinion. I'm not an artist, so really, I don't know much.

I can't believe I'm even posting this - BUT - my 4 year-old is a serious broccoli-holic - he literally eats it off the shelves @ the grocery store. If anyone has bought a kid's shirt (size 4 or 6) that they want to turn over, I'll gladly take it off your hands - via paypal for $20 (heaven help me).

You can reach me @ boaterboyct at yahoo .com

Thanks in advance for your consideration!

Its shirts like this that just really confuse me on what wooters really will buy and not buy... I for one contribute sales to the woot off.