mikenytola wrote:Why are you on this quest? If others are happy with what they are buying and voting for, what does it matter to you? Why are you fighting against these people who are the majority? Ya ya ya, you want better designs and better artists to get their well deserved. What about the happy customers that are voting and are buying? If somebody is happy, who are you to say they should not be happy?
Some people are happy doing incredibly sadistic things.
But in the long run, for the consumer it is just a shirt. But for woot it is a reputation, and for artists it is a well deserved paycheck. It's sort of like taxes. I don't have a kid, but my taxes still go to local schools. Because that is what the community at large needs. The community at large needs quality. It doesn't matter what the sales say, and it doesn't matter what the votes say. This is an art contest, and letting anything but good solid entries win is degrading the entire concept of what art and creativity is.
So just because the fat cats who already get what they want are happy with the current healthcare system, it doesn't mean the whole country that NEEDS universal health care should be ignored. And similarly with good shirts and a fair derby. And by fair, I mean to the entrants. That is what is most right for this community. And let's be honest, even the highest selling shirt at this site has only sold to like 1% of all wooters. So I'm not exactly sure how you can confidently say anything about majorities. It is totally possible that the same 10,000 people buy all the "popular" tees, and the whole million others only buy the more creative pieces, but simply in far smaller numbers. We don't know. We'll never know. But the fact is, happiness doesn't make us right.
If you are so die hard about better shirts being printed and good artists getting what they deserve then why not create your own site? You could set the rules, you could reject "bad" art, you could ban bunnies, you could ban Ramyb, you could WIN at what you are trying to preach here and make some damn good money in the process.
I love this argument, because it proves how little people who invoke it know about shirt companies.
If you want good product, you're shelling out good money. To print a run of 100 shirts, I'd likely need $500 minimum. Not to mention a payout to the designer ($250 is pretty much industry standard for LOWEST you can go and still be respectable, and even then, many great designers will rightfully be wary of your site) and money for advertising, web maintenance, etc, which I won't even bother trying to estimate, since I don't know. But that alone is $750 a shirt.
Let's think about frequency. I'd say daily is too much for any sensible start-up, and one a month is too little stock to build a viewership. So let's say weekly, or about 4 a month. $3000 a month minimum of disposable income would be needed for the first starting months. I'd likely want 10K all told, to keep me secure for three months and then hopefully be able to eke out a profit. But what would I profit? Given all the start-up costs, and the slow growth of a small new site, we're looking at $15-20 shirts, like most sites average, which don't sell as fast as $10, just to keep in the black. Who would find the site? How would they? Would they be willing to drop that much money on a tee when they've never heard of the company?
I mean, unless you have 3K of totally disposable income every month. then I can see how "start your own site" is such a brilliant idea. and believe me, I'd love to. But if you want QUALITY, it isn't as simple as that.
To be honest I would probably buy more shirts on your site then I would here. I think the voting system here is a little flawed, I think a lot of winning designs did not deserve their win also, and some designs I really wanted a lot did not win, but the fact remains, that's my opinion.
No you wouldn't, for starters. I'd never be able to print as cheaply as woot, so I'd never be able to sell as cheaply, so you'd never buy from me.
past that, this whole rant is your opinion too. So you can't voice your opinion when it matters, but you can just to whine and complain about me whining and complaining. Very helpful.
You try so hard to fight against designers here when it's shirt.woot that you are against and have a problem with. The designers, love 'em or hate 'em are just doing what they do and have no control over people's opinions of their work. You want people to stop being sheep yet you want the sheep to follow you.
1) I don't fight against designers. I fight against people who couldn't design their way out of a paper bag, yet still get prize money for their lack-of-efforts.
2) I believe shirt.woot and I are on the same team. Except for the part where shirt.woot isn't willing to euthanize their baby Derby. The derby needs huge changes. I don't think shirt.woot disagrees. I just don't think they're willing to man up and do it. Though these last few weeks have implied they're willing to take SOME strides.
3) if you are a "designer" and you are making "designs" purely because you know they will make you money, technically that manipulation is "having control over what people will think of your designs". Your arguments always favor the people with no scruples. If you are submitting dreck for the sake of winning, I have just as much a beef with your unethical unartistic ass as I do with woot for allowing such things to print. And when something highly untopical does well in a themed contest, I have every right to be ticked at the people who have no respect for those rules and are voting up anyway
4) arguing that people not being a sheep because I said so makes them a sheep is a stretch of epic proportions
Just because you respect good art and have an obvious bias against certain designers does not mean other peoples opinions do not matter. Shirt.woot will never change because of your preaching, they will continue to do what they do until the profit is not good enough, and then they may change. Even since I've been on this site I have watched you complain week after week after week about the same thing over and over again. You haven't changed anything. Yet you use the same old tactic, the same old complaints, and you get the same old results. Bravo for changing nothing.
don't flatter yourself into thinking you're my target audience.
The change is less important than never stopping fighting for what you believe in.
And only time will tell what woot does. Has it worked yet? Not likely. Will it? Who knows. Why should I give up what I believe in?
You preach to get people to not vote for things you do not approve of. Why should your vote and voice be the only one listened to? Why should a group of happy voters and buyers change their tastes and opinions for you? You are so conceited it's pathetic. Sorry to inform you, but a majority of people here do not agree with you. If they did then the designs you find worthy would be winning.
Again, if 1000 votes carry the winner, that doesn't mean that 10,000 people didn't cast votes for 4th through last. The biggest cluster disagrees. But not necessarily any majority. Especially considering how easy it is to create fake voting accounts.
As to why my voice should be the only one listened to? It certainly shouldn't! But I find very few people against me are good at making compelling and cogent arguments. Opinions are no good if the facts behind them stink.
But do carry on, I rather enjoy calling you out. At least I do something about things I do not like in life. What do you do? Oh ya... blah blah blah...
Fallacy. I have no idea what you allegedly do about things you don't like. By my count, you just complain about me. Which is a pretty sad goal in life, even in comparison to worrying about ethics in an internet tshirt contest.
tl;dr - you talk a lot but have no clue what you are saying