BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
staffell wrote:Woah



Double Whoah.


Hammylink


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Hammylink

This still doesn't fix the fact that the sheeple all want to see the same thing derby after derby.

______________________________________________

thurdl01


quality posts: 11 Private Messages thurdl01
Hammylink wrote:This still doesn't fix the fact that the sheeple all want to see the same thing derby after derby.



That depends on how many of them were here just for the two of them. I always got the impression that they had a trail of followers latched on from the minute they showed up here. Some may stick around, but if this does end up being it for their stay at shirt woot, that trail will likely follow them where they take the scam next and not stick around here.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
mrwednesday wrote:Bass, I know you have to sycophantically defend ramy and seki because you feel they are unfairly hated because of their "style" but this is the exact reason you talked yourself into pariah status as soon as you got here.

To attempt to sidetrack the issue by baselessly accusing the veritable posterchild of integrity and artistry at this site is beyond classless especially when you know full well that ramyoku's work is as generic and unoriginal as it gets.



Wednesday, I could film myself burning that cat shirt and it still wouldn't be enough for you, so I'll just move on....

Yes, in the past I have defended these two people because I dislike the behavior towards them. I was fairly new to Woot, and I didn't want to come in and immediately join the masses against two people that I knew nothing about, and had done nothing wrong to me. I felt bad for them, so I was nice to them. Sue me. That might sound really cheesy, but it's how I felt. It had nothing to do with condoning or supporting immoral behavior, convention shenanigans, etc. But, if you want to continue to outcast me for this, that's ok, I accept it.

I am glad Woot has removed the shirt, as I too feel it's just too close to someone else's art. As to whether Seki bought the sticker it was based on or not, I don't know. I was not there to see it myself. My friend has had someone mistake another guy as him at a con that he didn't even go to. If it did happen, I'm very sorry to the original artist. Someone taking your work and profiting off of it is heinous. I'm just glad something was able to be done. When someone took my art, I couldn't do a thing about it. :\

Regarding Travis and I, we talked via pm. There was actually a side concern that someone I know had about his entry, a concern that was very real that had nothing to do with R and S. I was wrong to bring it up here in the thread, and for that I apologize. Travis is by far and away one of my absolute art heroes here. I bow down to his crazy greatness...you have no idea.

Back to the topic, I have told many people that I don't condone the alleged actions surrounding R and S. I simply chose to treat them as regular artists here, because to me, that's all they were. If it turns out the nomination stealing is true, then it means I placed my own trust/reputation on the line, and lost my arse. That will be my part to deal with. The rest is for Woot to decide as far as the future of Seki goes. I think they've shown they're willing to listen to the community, and they too want to do the right thing. I support that fully.

This is all I can say. :\ You may now commence your stone throwing at me! -tears open shirt to reveal chest- I deserve some of it...but don't throw too hard...I'm a total wuss. ;;;;>_<;;;;

odysseyroc


quality posts: 32 Private Messages odysseyroc
bassanimation wrote:
Back to the topic, I have told many people that I don't condone the alleged actions surrounding R and S. I simply chose to treat them as regular artists here, because to me, that's all they were. If it turns out the nomination stealing is true, then it means I placed my own trust/reputation on the line, and lost my arse. That will be my part to deal with. The rest is for Woot to decide as far as the future of Seki goes. I think they've shown they're willing to listen to the community, and they too want to do the right thing. I support that fully.



I always thought that you just wanted to believe the best in people. I figured that you would never do the things they were being accused of, so you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. I saw it more as being nice/naive more than anything else. My experience is different, I grew up around some seriously foul characters, so I've learned that if somebody was doing something wrong in the past, odds are they haven't changed. You're a fantastic artist and in my opinion that counts for a whole lot.





BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
odysseyroc wrote:I always thought that you just wanted to believe the best in people. I figured that you would never do the things they were being accused of, so you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. I saw it more as being nice/naive more than anything else. My experience is different, I grew up around some seriously foul characters, so I've learned that if somebody was doing something wrong in the past, odds are they haven't changed. You're a fantastic artist and in my opinion that counts for a whole lot.



Nice sentiment. I wouldn't judge someone by the company they keep. So, I wouldn't fault Bass for supporting whatever artist she wants to support. Maybe this will get me stoned too, but I also wouldn't judge Ramy for this particular incident. I like to make sure I'm directing my uppity-ness at the right place when I'm judging people from up on my high horse. ;)

tgentry wrote:I would like to say that this is a serious topic to me and I'm sure most artists who frequent this site that spend a great deal of effort trying to come up with original ideas and designs. I'm not in a position to say what is true or not true and I understand that these things can be delicate in terms of legal matters and what not so I won't demand a response or express outrage. But the idea that people might just be skimming the web, books, magazines, conventions, or whatever for designs from other artists to stick on a shirt with little to no creative input of their own is a scary one and I hope it doesn't have a place in the derbies. When you put up a design you are basically saying "this is my work". I understand similar ideas can be developed completely separate from one another, but sometimes it can be very clear that lines have been crossed. I would really like to think that that isn't the case here so my mind remains open.

Agree 100%





bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
odysseyroc wrote:I always thought that you just wanted to believe the best in people. I figured that you would never do the things they were being accused of, so you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. I saw it more as being nice/naive more than anything else. My experience is different, I grew up around some seriously foul characters, so I've learned that if somebody was doing something wrong in the past, odds are they haven't changed. You're a fantastic artist and in my opinion that counts for a whole lot.



Thanks so much, Odyssey. You have no idea how much I appreciate you saying this. If I could be in the same room as you right now I'd give you a hug ;_;.

I absolutely just wanted to believe the best. I grew up being the brunt of many false accusations, bullying, etc. My grandma (yes, grandma stories) always told me, "Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." Being a girl in middle school, high school...I learned that falsely accusing people before you know the facts can lead to a lot of heartache. :\ I chose to be nice to R and S simply for the sake of the golden rule. They had done nothing to me, and all I knew about them was internet pages and Deviantart...neither of which are bastions of truth. So, I went with the first option, give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

In the end...I feel very sad. I came to this site to do art and the derbies during a bad time for me. I wanted to put my best intentions out there, and I got cut for it. I'm willing to take that consequence, but it still stings each week, especially considering some people are not going to let me forget it. In the end, though, I hope the right stuff prevails, and I'll be behind it all the way.



BTW, they still shipped my shirt before I could cancel it. :\ I'm almost afraid to receive it. I think if I open it, it will release the 13 ghosts of the black zodiac...

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
BootsBoots wrote:I like to make sure I'm directing my uppity-ness at the right place when I'm judging people from up on my high horse. ;)



This. :\ I'm perfectly ok with handing it down if need be. I just like to be damned sure before I do it. And even then...I don't see a need to carry on with it after I hand it down. Too much weight to bear for my tiny, frail horse. :P

owlsmirror


quality posts: 0 Private Messages owlsmirror

I have been following this thread since I was first informed of these similarities being announced here. I have been silent for a few days, but I want to make an official announcement to inform everyone that is upset about the situation that I have been dealing with the issue. I contacted Woot immediately and I am glad to see that the shirt was finally removed.

The facts:
-I have contacted a lawyer.
-Sylvia did purchase the sticker at Anime Next. Although I did not witness the transaction Keevs has confirmed to me that she performed the transaction and our neighboring artist has confirmed seeing the transaction.
-There was no mistaken identity of Sylvia. We know who she is, can identify her and have been very suspicious of her actions due to past issues and complaints.
-I am not taking this matter very lightly. Sylvia has overstepped her bounds and I will not be playing nice.
-I have gotten confirmation from the AN Alley Coordinator to confirm our presence, her presence, and the existence of our "World Nomination" piece in the Artist Alley this year.
-I have confirmation from my printer when he first received and saw the artwork in question. (World Nomination was debuted at AnimeNext)
-I have pictures of our table at AN2010 which have "World Nomination" and Keevs prominently displayed.

Anyone that wants to debate Sylvia's access to the piece can question this all they want, but these are the facts.

I am currently awaiting a response to follow up the removal of the shirt as well as other information to take the next step. I am hoping Woot will work with me peacefully, but only time will tell.

For everyone wondering who I am and whether or not I have any validity in making these statements feel free to email me at info@owlsmirror.com I have already been contacted with pleas to take action. I have decided that now is the time to let everyone know we are doing all we can to have the right thing happen.

If you have come to our table before I am the guy that makes the collars. I am the one that people scoff at when I tell them I am not the artist. I am the background person who keeps Owl's Mirror Studio running and gets us to the convention. I am the contact person that you would be speaking with if you email or call. Keevs and I jointly share the copyright on the artwork for the purposes of Owl's Mirror so rest assured that I am giving accurate information.

I will not be posting regularly, but I will give more information as this problem progresses.

owlsmirror


quality posts: 0 Private Messages owlsmirror

I also want to add...

Thanks to all of you for the support. Especially the ones that have been reporting to either me or Keevs directly. This is exactly what all artists need when things like this happen.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
owlsmirror wrote:I have been following this thread since I was first informed of these similarities being announced here. I have been silent for a few days, but I want to make an official announcement to inform everyone that is upset about the situation that I have been dealing with the issue. I contacted Woot immediately and I am glad to see that the shirt was finally removed.

The facts:
-I have contacted a lawyer.
-Sylvia did purchase the sticker at Anime Next. Although I did not witness the transaction Keevs has confirmed to me that she performed the transaction and our neighboring artist has confirmed seeing the transaction.
-There was no mistaken identity of Sylvia. We know who she is, can identify her and have been very suspicious of her actions due to past issues and complaints.
-I am not taking this matter very lightly. Sylvia has overstepped her bounds and I will not be playing nice.
-I have gotten confirmation from the AN Alley Coordinator to confirm our presence, her presence, and the existence of our "World Nomination" piece in the Artist Alley this year.
-I have confirmation from my printer when he first received and saw the artwork in question. (World Nomination was debuted at AnimeNext)
-I have pictures of our table at AN2010 which have "World Nomination" and Keevs prominently displayed.

Anyone that wants to debate Sylvia's access to the piece can question this all they want, but these are the facts.

I am currently awaiting a response to follow up the removal of the shirt as well as other information to take the next step. I am hoping Woot will work with me peacefully, but only time will tell.

For everyone wondering who I am and whether or not I have any validity in making these statements feel free to email me at info@owlsmirror.com I have already been contacted with pleas to take action. I have decided that now is the time to let everyone know we are doing all we can to have the right thing happen.

If you have come to our table before I am the guy that makes the collars. I am the one that people scoff at when I tell them I am not the artist. I am the background person who keeps Owl's Mirror Studio running and gets us to the convention. I am the contact person that you would be speaking with if you email or call. Keevs and I jointly share the copyright on the artwork for the purposes of Owl's Mirror so rest assured that I am giving accurate information.

I will not be posting regularly, but I will give more information as this problem progresses.



Doubts removed. :\ Man. So sorry to you guys. I hope everything works out. Thank you for updating the people here.

Valis


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Valis
owlsmirror wrote:For everyone wondering who I am and whether or not I have any validity in making these statements feel free to email me at info@owlsmirror.com I have already been contacted with pleas to take action. I have decided that now is the time to let everyone know we are doing all we can to have the right thing happen.



If your action gets the wonder twins banned, put me down for like five of those stickers. Seriously.

rglee129


quality posts: 27 Private Messages rglee129

How embarrassing all around. But this isn't just frustrating on principle- this is potentially big money! After a bit of quick math with very conservative estimation, I know Imposter and Music is Life ALONE have made Sekiyoku about $50,000 (and counting!). If Nomination stuck around (seems pretty likely) it could have made her a lot money.

I know woot is pretty private with this sort of thing, but boy am I dying to find out how this plays out- if only for some satisfaction. I don't mind losing to a visually simple and generic aesthetic if it's got a really solid premise, but if the premise is stolen... that's frustrating.

bluecobrao95


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bluecobrao95

I don't mean to sound insensitive to stolen work, but this was my first purchase here, so will I be receiving a shirt? a refund? What happens to the people that bought this? Also, my shipping tracking number for this order doesn't work, does that have something to do with this situation?

owlsmirror


quality posts: 0 Private Messages owlsmirror

I want to make a point about the previous two posts.

1) Although I am the last person that should show any sympathy for Ramy let's remember that as of this time he is not involved in this situation. Because it is known that both of these people have worked together multiple times one isn't necessarily responsible for the other in this case.

I don't want to get into flame wars over this. I just want the matter resolved appropriately.

2) As far as the orders that is still currently up to Woot to handle properly. Keevs and I have discussed this situation and we do have offers to arrange. As I said previously I am currently awaiting a response from Woot, but I am not expecting anything to happen too fast because I need to follow up with another, more appropriate, step tonight.

If you have questions about the order I would recommend contacting the service address to find where they are sitting. It's not going to be good for Woot to cancel all of these order, but of course they are also in a sticky financial situation by filling the orders. This is an unfortunate catch 22 that shouldn't have happened.

marzipanapple


quality posts: 7 Private Messages marzipanapple

I'm very thankful to see that this is being addressed. I suppose getting a statement from the artist wouldn't really be helpful at all now(though I can't say I expected one anyway).

Thanks, Woot.

Edit: I also agree with the fact that his has nothing to do with Ramy. I don't always like his work, but we've not caught him stealing. I hope we won't use this as an excuse to nip at his heels.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
rglee129 wrote:How embarrassing all around. But this isn't just frustrating on principle- this is potentially big money! After a bit of quick math with very conservative estimation, I know Imposter and Music is Life ALONE have made Sekiyoku about $50,000 (and counting!). If Nomination stuck around (seems pretty likely) it could have made her a lot money.

I know woot is pretty private with this sort of thing, but boy am I dying to find out how this plays out- if only for some satisfaction. I don't mind losing to a visually simple and generic aesthetic if it's got a really solid premise, but if the premise is stolen... that's frustrating.



The last time I did an estimation including grim optimism and many of their other shirts which weren't on the reckoning list as long but were there for certain periods of time about 6 or more months ago their total was well over $100,000 since joining woot. I think my actual estimate was around $120,000 and $150,000. This is big big big money and people who think that theft isn't important because "it's just a shirt" are dearly and sadly mistaken.

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
owlsmirror wrote:I don't want to get into flame wars over this. I just want the matter resolved appropriately.



Totally agree. Thanks for stating your case here so clearly, completely and dispassionately. The facts really do speak for themselves.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU

Unsurprisingly, I think it's pretty impossible to talk about this situation without mentioning Ramy. Before the woot invasion he's been accused of coloring seki's linework, meaning any pieces created could be both of theirs, regardless of name. This isn't a matter of guilt by association. This is a matter of two people making at least part of their living together on this. Ramy has been along for the ride on numerous designs here. He's no less part of the convention shenanigans than seki is. They are a team. And if Ramy profits, she will too. Can we ban Ramy for this? I don't know a single artist who wouldn't love that. But no matter what, this needs to come with some major overhaul at least. If you look back into the pair's history (not that people looked back on it years ago when people started bringing it up... coulda saved some serious time!) you'd know that neither of them are above continually twisting the rules to their own purposes. And at a site where people can make multiple vote accounts, it is vital that woot realizes that they've finally come up against an issue that can't be resolved without a lot of their own transparency and a lot more editorial control.

MissJamieD


quality posts: 44 Private Messages MissJamieD

About flame wars:

I am by no means saying anyone's suspicions/personal stance is unfounded. BUT, I would like to give you an example from my own history:

My brother and I have both published articles in scientific journals. Four years ago, he asked that I look over an entry of his and edit it. I did so gladly, he's my brother. However, shortly after it's submission and subsequent publication, it came to light that he plagiarized a lot of it. His statistical analyses were also baited, and his conclusions had been 100% falsified with misrepresentation.

However, I didn't know any of that. We are in two separate fields (mine being animals and his plants). I merely fine-tuned his grammar problems, helped him structure it a bit more soundly.

I was absolutely appalled to find out he was a liar (and to be honest, we aren't that close as a result of it). I think that almost everyone has that one black sheep in the family that you NEVER suspected of something so heinous, but in the end, that is exactly what became of it.

I'm just putting this out here for thought. Maybe Ramy is just as bad, I don't know. However, any help that he gave to a design that she may have represented as her own doesn't necessarily mean he's also to blame. For all anyone knows, she asked for his help to sure up a design, and he was oblivious to its stealing.

Innocent until proven guilty is not a bad concept, which also permits one to keep their guard and can prevent the damage caused by misappropriated assumption.

Yourkiddingright


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Yourkiddingright
owlsmirror wrote:I also want to add...

Thanks to all of you for the support. Especially the ones that have been reporting to either me or Keevs directly. This is exactly what all artists need when things like this happen.



I'm just glad I was able to bring this to light for everyone by being the one who found and posted the evidence. Do searches people, it doesn't take long and it can stop things like this from happening, everyone can help out.

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
Yourkiddingright wrote:I'm just glad I was able to bring this to light for everyone by being the one who found and posted the evidence. Do searches people, it doesn't take long and it can stop things like this from happening, everyone can help out.



It depends on what you mean by searches preventing this from happening.

Artists doing a search of other designs to see if it has been done before would prevent unintended similar ideas. However, Seki searched and copied, apparently knowing that this design existed.

However, if you are suggesting that woot should authenticate each design, I think that it would be great if they did, but I don't see it happening. If you are hoping the community polices submissions, while often attempts are made, clearly things are missed.

nrarmen


quality posts: 6 Private Messages nrarmen
kwilder wrote:It depends on what you mean by searches preventing this from happening.

Artists doing a search of other designs to see if it has been done before would prevent unintended similar ideas. However, Seki searched and copied, apparently knowing that this design existed.

However, if you are suggesting that woot should authenticate each design, I think that it would be great if they did, but I don't see it happening. If you are hoping the community polices submissions, while often attempts are made, clearly things are missed.



They authenticated my design when I won. May have been cause it was my first print and that I wasn't known in the community at all.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
MissJamieD wrote:About flame wars:

I am by no means saying anyone's suspicions/personal stance is unfounded. BUT, I would like to give you an example from my own history:

My brother and I have both published articles in scientific journals. Four years ago, he asked that I look over an entry of his and edit it. I did so gladly, he's my brother. However, shortly after it's submission and subsequent publication, it came to light that he plagiarized a lot of it. His statistical analyses were also baited, and his conclusions had been 100% falsified with misrepresentation.

However, I didn't know any of that. We are in two separate fields (mine being animals and his plants). I merely fine-tuned his grammar problems, helped him structure it a bit more soundly.

I was absolutely appalled to find out he was a liar (and to be honest, we aren't that close as a result of it). I think that almost everyone has that one black sheep in the family that you NEVER suspected of something so heinous, but in the end, that is exactly what became of it.

I'm just putting this out here for thought. Maybe Ramy is just as bad, I don't know. However, any help that he gave to a design that she may have represented as her own doesn't necessarily mean he's also to blame. For all anyone knows, she asked for his help to sure up a design, and he was oblivious to its stealing.

Innocent until proven guilty is not a bad concept, which also permits one to keep their guard and can prevent the damage caused by misappropriated assumption.



The note here is, you have not worked with your brother since. Ramy has worked with Sylvia many times since she got dualbanned at DA, and since they got questioned at Otakon '08. He knows what's up and is complicit in it.

The Staring-Contest/Grim-Optimism similarities on page 3 are a good start, but also consider pieces like listen to your conscience, which was widely called unoriginal, many similar designs were posted, including a past woot design of just weeks prior, and still printed. Consider the design that was JUST rejected this same week for being too similar to Fable's "you have to try this". consider all the entries ramy has removed... check shirtderbystats for his Colbert Bear rip off, or his Dr. Seuss rip off, or any number of other designs he tried to hide by deleting them himself. He is not remotely innocent and free of implication.

As for Seki herself, just think of the gems hiding in other threads that seem so much more ominous in retrospect. Stuff like this throwaway comment on her other horribly typeset winner seems less like grasping at straws and more utterly likely.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 32 Private Messages odysseyroc
AdderXYU wrote:
The Staring-Contest/Grim-Optimism similarities on page 3 are a good start, but also consider pieces like listen to your conscience, which was widely called unoriginal, many similar designs were posted, including a past woot design of just weeks prior, and still printed. Consider the design that was JUST rejected this same week for being too similar to Fable's "you have to try this". consider all the entries ramy has removed... check shirtderbystats for his Colbert Bear rip off, or his Dr. Seuss rip off, or any number of other designs he tried to hide by deleting them himself. He is not remotely innocent and free of implication.



Don't forget "A Death in the Family" which I believe was also rejected for being similar Fable's design


and the resub, which fogged.





contemporaryscarlett


quality posts: 0 Private Messages contemporaryscarlett

I'm not an artist by any stretch, but this has been fascinating. Maybe I'm just naive and honest, but I'm amazed that anyone would be that shameless.

So I did a bit of googling, and found this article. Warning: the irony of the comments may be overwhelming.

http://www.examiner.com/x-48965-Fort-Worth-Geek-Culture-Examiner~y2010m6d9-AKon-artist-spotlight-Sylvia-Shi

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
odysseyroc wrote:Don't forget "A Death in the Family" which I believe was also rejected for being similar Fable's design



Oh, believe me, I'm sure between all of us, we could prove that between the two of them, there is no shortage of "eerily similar" work. I'm glad people aren't being shy about their memories.

And that article was lovely irony. Almost as ironic as Ramy deleting all his Deviant Art blogs that admit to his girlfriend's banning. Almost as ironic as this classic RamyB quote, from his first horrible sale, on "Basic Training," being TOTALLY REMOVED in its original form.

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
AdderXYU wrote:Oh, believe me, I'm sure between all of us, we could prove that between the two of them, there is no shortage of "eerily similar" work. I'm glad people aren't being shy about their memories.

And that article was lovely irony. Almost as ironic as Ramy deleting all his Deviant Art blogs that admit to his girlfriend's banning. Almost as ironic as this classic RamyB quote, from his first horrible sale, on "Basic Training," being TOTALLY REMOVED in its original form.



I'm NO Ramy lover. In fact, I hate most of his stuff. However, this is about Seki. She is the one that got caught blatantly ripping someone off. Guilt by association is not enough.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Johndis5 wrote:I'm NO Ramy lover. In fact, I hate most of his stuff. However, this is about Seki. She is the one that got caught blatantly ripping someone off. Guilt by association is not enough.



Boyfriend girlfriend business partners living in the same house through all manner of accusations of foul play, including two successive deviant art bannings. When you know someone is a cheater, and you stick with them anyway to the point of working with them continually, you forfeit your right to not be guilty by association.

You seem to forget the history here. There is more than enough to hang ramy by association. He knew what was going on, and has scads of pieces that should be seen as suspicious in light of this. I think we've been showing quite a few bits of evidence that show why we should not let him off the hook.

Drakxxx


quality posts: 16 Private Messages Drakxxx
odysseyroc wrote:I always thought that you just wanted to believe the best in people. I figured that you would never do the things they were being accused of, so you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. I saw it more as being nice/naive more than anything else. My experience is different, I grew up around some seriously foul characters, so I've learned that if somebody was doing something wrong in the past, odds are they haven't changed. You're a fantastic artist and in my opinion that counts for a whole lot.




BootsBoots wrote:Agree 100%



bassanimation wrote:Thanks so much, Odyssey. You have no idea how much I appreciate you saying this. If I could be in the same room as you right now I'd give you a hug ;_;.

I absolutely just wanted to believe the best. I grew up being the brunt of many false accusations, bullying, etc. My grandma (yes, grandma stories) always told me, "Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see." Being a girl in middle school, high school...I learned that falsely accusing people before you know the facts can lead to a lot of heartache. :\ I chose to be nice to R and S simply for the sake of the golden rule. They had done nothing to me, and all I knew about them was internet pages and Deviantart...neither of which are bastions of truth. So, I went with the first option, give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

In the end...I feel very sad. I came to this site to do art and the derbies during a bad time for me. I wanted to put my best intentions out there, and I got cut for it. I'm willing to take that consequence, but it still stings each week, especially considering some people are not going to let me forget it. In the end, though, I hope the right stuff prevails, and I'll be behind it all the way.




Say what you will about the derby and the hijinks that come with it, but I don't feel at all cheesy in saying that the regular artists here are the most friendly and supportive that I've ever encountered. These quoted comments prove it. (Except maybe Boots "Agree 100%"...that isn't very exciting)

Let's continue to support the weekly woot contest with our abilities, creativity, and originality.


owlsmirror


quality posts: 0 Private Messages owlsmirror
AdderXYU wrote:Boyfriend girlfriend business partners living in the same house through all manner of accusations of foul play, including two successive deviant art bannings. When you know someone is a cheater, and you stick with them anyway to the point of working with them continually, you forfeit your right to not be guilty by association.

You seem to forget the history here. There is more than enough to hang ramy by association. He knew what was going on, and has scads of pieces that should be seen as suspicious in light of this. I think we've been showing quite a few bits of evidence that show why we should not let him off the hook.




Adder please keep in mind there are two separate complaints among everyone here, 1) the direct copying of another artist's work that is too remarkably similar not to create debate and 2) the displeasure of the artists in this community seeing these two people in question getting away with the same acts time after time.

Everyone who is familiar with their past actions know it is a fact that they work together. Are they a valid partnership that hold responsibility for each other? Unless someone can provide their partnership agreement we can't say that they are even a partnership. If they are a partnership they could be established as an LLP which then holds certain actions to a specific partner in a group removing the liability from the other partners. A boyfriend/girlfriend partnership doesn't mean anymore than two complete strangers that meet on the street and decide to start a partnership. Only a husband/wife business can have the two involved in the way you are pointing at and can technically be declared a sole proprietorship although there are two owners.

As far as any action being held against Ramy in this matter it can only be left up to Woot's investigation into this matter. Although I haven't been told specifically it seems that they are monitoring these message board just for this information. The fact that so many of you have posted other pieces of theirs compared to originals to show similarities is putting a whole new perspective into the scrutiny of their submissions.

As it stands there is no proof that Ramy is involved in our particular claim. Please refrain from referring to Ramy in context to our situation or that it doesn't come across to include our situation. This may not have been your intent, but words can be interpreted very differently by each reader.

I am not saying that Ramy is innocent in and sense based on the details of his history I have been given, but he will have to be dealt with separately if he is going to be deemed liable in any of the charges that have come to light.

Sylvia and Ramy have been digging a hole for a long time and they just might have finally dug so deep they can't get out.

To everyone in this community: PLEASE relax for a moment before posting and don't get too emotional. Without proper thought behind your words they will hold no power to your point. This is why I waited before making any posts.

I am extremely angry that this happened and that I have had to spend much of my time dealing with this situation. All I can say is that I am lucky to have a very close friend that is an intellectual properties lawyer.

princessdiablo


quality posts: 1 Private Messages princessdiablo
Hammylink wrote:This still doesn't fix the fact that the sheeple all want to see the same thing derby after derby.



That is a different issue completely. I'm a "sheeple" and like their lighthearted, cute art. I wouldn't follow them anywhere, but when a cute, fun shirt pops up, I'll likely buy it. I'm not seeking "high art" from woot.

However, I'm totally not a fan of plagiarism. This is utter and total crap. Woot - wait, Amazon - needs to have accountability.

Corrado


quality posts: 130 Private Messages Corrado

Volunteer Moderator

owlsmirror wrote:...
To everyone in this community: PLEASE relax for a moment before posting and don't get too emotional.
...



Welcome to shirt.woot. Please keep your hands and feet inside the ride at all time (and remember to duck frequently).

Corrado's Training Blog @ http://DrawnOutsideTheLinesOfReason.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/Corrado
**********************


It's not my fault that I love Gatzby! He's such a pretty, pretty "man."

BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
Drakxxx wrote:(Except maybe Boots "Agree 100%"...that isn't very exciting)



What do you want from me? I'm not some monkey in a hat that's here just for your entertainment, Drakxxx!


AGrant311


quality posts: 4 Private Messages AGrant311
BootsBoots wrote:What do you want from me? I'm not some monkey in a hat that's here just for your entertainment, Drakxxx!



I wish we could vote for quality posts. I would so give Boots one for this.

mps18


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mps18

Is there any way at all i can still get this shirt? i know the deal with the reckoning but i really need this shirt!

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
mps18 wrote:Is there any way at all i can still get this shirt? i know the deal with the reckoning but i really need this shirt!



The community doesn't know what will happen with this shirt yet. This shirt wasn't "reckoned" in the normal way. Woot discontinued the shirt (temporarily or permanently) because sekiyoku stole the idea on the shirt from from a different artist, keevs. If you need something with this idea on it, I'd suggest contacting the original creator.

goukanomegami


quality posts: 2 Private Messages goukanomegami

Wow..... I'm not really quite sure what to say here. I'm pretty much a noob to woot. I joined in March to buy a buddy of mine a shirt he liked for his birthday. I've since stuck around and have liked Seki and Ramy's designs. I can't believe that I had been unknowingly supporting possible theft. I wish I would have paid closer attention to the forums, otherwise I wouldn't have purchased a shirt.

Now that my shirt has shipped I'm not sure what to do. Had I known it was a stolen idea I would have canceled my order. I don't think I could wear it without feeling dirty.

Please resolve this soon, Woot.

deltax20a


quality posts: 1 Private Messages deltax20a

Personally as someone who just enjoys buying cool shirts, be they are this "style" or not, the real losers here are us, getting caught up in plagiarism, greed, drama, and everything I frankly hate about anime fans, and I work two cons a year dealing with artists. The troll in me applauds them for their genius in making a lot of money off oblivious people like myself, and the morality of me understands why people are against them for cheating other better artists out of the prize each week.

Honestly I don't know what I will do with my shirt if it gets here next week. I liked the topic, and my girlfriend liked it too, she probably gives even less than I do about this.

I'd like to hear from Woot about how they're handling this so that this doesn't happen again, I like to think that my money is not only going to a wonderful service that has filled my closet, but to artists who create wonderful work that I want to wear in public. I know it's hard to vet each and every single design, but for those of us that don't do forums or DA, we're kind of out of the loop, and made to feel bad when we buy into what turns out to be a sham.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
deltax20a wrote:I'd like to hear from Woot about how they're handling this so that this doesn't happen again, I like to think that my money is not only going to a wonderful service that has filled my closet, but to artists who create wonderful work that I want to wear in public. I know it's hard to vet each and every single design, but for those of us that don't do forums or DA, we're kind of out of the loop, and made to feel bad when we buy into what turns out to be a sham.



Woot will do everything possible to minimize the money they stand to lose and to minimize the legal ramifications. If owlsmirror had been more cooperative, woot would have simply purchased the rights to the design and continued to sell the shirt. They have done this in the past and will do it again.

Because owlsmirror, isn't selling the rights, who knows. I can say pretty confidently that woot doesn't care much about the theft. They are really just concerned about their liability otherwise they would have banned seki already. The legal issue doesn't have any bearing on the fact that they shouldn't be tolerating thieves in their contest under any circumstances.

There is a 99% chance it will be business as usual and any changes that are made will be decided by the courts alone because woot won't willingly do anything about it.