megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
killmak wrote:Ah yes the good old trust us we know what we are doing line. While woot can do whatever they want it is usually a good idea to look into peoples complaints about other users rather than state "our checks are perfect". If you want people to believe that a certain user is not cheating after being accused of it multiple times it would be best to actually look into it a little deeper. Then when you come back to tell everyone that no they are not cheating you can actually state that you investigated it.

Imagine if all companies took Woots stance and refused to investigate peoples complaints. Corruption would run rampant.



the difference is, people are accusing ramyb because they dont like him, not because they have any proof that he's cheating. thats like me ratting someone out at work because i want his job, not because he's doing poorly.

the point tgentry was making was that they dont need to single anyone out because they are watching EVERYONE. when they watch everyone that doesnt mean they ignore certain people, they are checking EVERYONE who enters a design. so i dont understand why you think they are ignore you. in fact they are going out of their way to tell you in this very thread, there is nothing shady going on. you can not trust woot all you want, you can even think that they just wont saying anything about it, but i dont believe they would outright lie to us. therefore when tgentry, a great artist and a former wooter who now works for the company, comes in here and says, we watch everyone, no ones cheating, just focus on your own stuff and stop picking on other artists, i for one believe every word of it.

bluejester


quality posts: 567 Private Messages bluejester
thumperchick wrote:

It is telling that a lot of the conspiracy theorist comments were done from sock puppet accounts. Way to stand up for your perceived injustice, anonymous angry account.



Seconded.

Personally, the long winded rants and usage of the words "pander" and "naive" strike me as a certain some one getting around a probation.

That said, I think Ramyb's success lies in basic word of mouth via venues like Facebook. In fact, I have a very recent personal example that I'm going to share.

A few weeks ago when Ramyb won the retro audio derby, I happened to see my little sister share the link for "Cooler Than You" on her facebook page. She's a sophmore in college, 19, always has been into Hello Kitty type of stuff and loves doing art. In fact, she is getting her degree in theater set design and does some artsy craft projects on the side. Knowing that she hangs out with people like her and that the has over 200 friends that follow her, it's safe to assume that is a fair bit of advertising to the target audience of said shirt.

Now I could have told her, at length, the stuff that goes on within these boards and the accusations of fraud and so on and so forth. And I could have told her to take time to read up and make a judgement call on her own. The fact of the matter is though that she's a busy college student, a pretty happy and intelligent young lady, and has no need to be worrying about the comments section of a t-shirt site. Not trying to sound rude here, but it simply isn't her interest and she doesn't have the time to puruse these boards.

The shirts Ramyb makes are usually quick, simple, and worth a smile. For just every day "throw it on and hurry to class" type of days, I can see why she'd purchase his designs.

Drakxxx


quality posts: 16 Private Messages Drakxxx

Everyone, go back to making your drawlings!


BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
Drakxxx wrote:Everyone, go back to making your drawlings!



Lol, I just read through this entire thread and that was the perfect ending!


thatrobert


quality posts: 26 Private Messages thatrobert
Drakxxx wrote:Everyone, go back to making your drawlings!



Are you looking at my bum? Bum looker!


Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
tgentry wrote:
Our systems and policies look at ALL artists and users equally and we will not and do not single out an artist to be "checked out", especially not based off of what goes on in these forums. I'm satisfied with the policies and checks and balances we have in place here and how they relate to the derby as a whole. If you're expecting some kind of detailed explanation of those, you'll be disappointed.



This needs to be quoted. tgentry was once a designer here and a very respected one at that. I'm all about skepticism and distrust of taking a company's word that everything is kosher, but if there is a person around here to trust, this guy is that person.

Being on the staff now, he obviously couldn't get on here and say "you guys are right, the way we do business is effed up", but given the fact that he was once a participant in these derbies and really seems to care about the artistic community, I can't imagine that he would go out of his way to tell us things are on the up and up unless he knew that to be the case.

I can't be the only person who has noticed all he has done to bridge the communication gap between the community and the staff, and it seems he gets a bunch of flack for it in return.

I'm probably one of the more skeptical and cynical people on these boards, and I might not always agree with him, but I see no reason to distrust him when he weighs in on something.

If you can't take his word for it, maybe you should admit defeat and move on.

Drakxxx


quality posts: 16 Private Messages Drakxxx
thatrobert wrote:Are you looking at my bum? Bum looker!




thatrobert


quality posts: 26 Private Messages thatrobert
Johndis5 wrote:This needs to be quoted. tgentry was once a designer here and a very respected one at that. I'm all about skepticism and distrust of taking a company's word that everything is kosher, but if there is a person around here to trust, this guy is that person.

Being on the staff now, he obviously couldn't get on here and say "you guys are right, the way we do business is effed up", but given the fact that he was once a participant in these derbies and really seems to care about the artistic community, I can't imagine that he would go out of his way to tell us things are on the up and up unless he knew that to be the case.

I can't be the only person who has noticed all he has done to bridge the communication gap between the community and the staff, and it seems he gets a bunch of flack for it in return.

I'm probably one of the more skeptical and cynical people on these boards, and I might not always agree with him, but I see no reason to distrust him when he weighs in on something.

If you can't take his word for it, maybe you should admit defeat and move on.



Excellent points. Travis has done a fantastic job of making the artists' interactions with Woot efficient, fair, and as transparent as necessary.

Woot is a better place to participate since he was hired. Thank you Travis and thanks to Woot for the wisdom in hiring him.



Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
bassanimation wrote:... One of my friends even flat out won't vote for me if she doesnt like what I've offered . (she's not shy about telling me this either <3)



I have a sister like that.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
thatrobert wrote:Excellent points. Travis has done a fantastic job of making the artists' interactions with Woot efficient, fair, and as transparent as necessary.

Woot is a better place to participate since he was hired. Thank you Travis and thanks to Woot for the wisdom in hiring him.



This, +1000 Limit Break.

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 217 Private Messages Spiritgreen

I think we've finally hit something we can all agree on. ^__^

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
Spiritgreen wrote:I think we've finally hit something we can all agree on. ^__^



so, let me get this straight.... we're supposed to hit tgentry now... ?

//unpacks baseball bat

sonofsevenless


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sonofsevenless
geekfactor12 wrote:So, anyone who wants evidence of wrongdoing isn't worthy of respect and has no integrity? I hope I'm interpreting that wrong. But I've seen similar sentiments in the past, and it definitely creates an environment where it's difficult to take a stand on an issue that involves a widely-hated artist. It's a pretty big downside.

To me, there's a big difference between not liking Ramy's art (I'd guess that virtually every person posting in this thread is in that camp, fwiw) and thinking that he must be cheating. For whatever reason, no one can provide clear evidence of any cheating. So it only makes sense to assume that... in absence of other evidence... no cheating is occurring. Doesn't mean you have to like his art. But for many it means that there's no sense in making an accusation until you've got something concrete to back it up.



That only makes sense insomuch that you think it's reasonable that the hatred is fueled purely by "dislike of art." I know there are certainly people on this site ignorant enough to believe that's true, but I also know there are a lot of people here who should know that isn't the case. There are a bunch of artists that I really don't care for their work. There are several artists that also could do much better work but choose not to because they want wins.

You don't see other names being talked about because how many can you even count that have been submitting for over a year and still can't really manage to be on theme? How many consistently submit work eerily similar to existing work over and over? How many have had an interchangeable partner banned from the site for stealing work? Half of seki's designs ramy did work on. They've always had access to each other's accounts and ramy has taken down seki's designs fixed things and resubbed them on his own.

He was still doing cons with her after the theft of the design came to light where uninformed conventiongoers were calling the original artist a cheat and a liar for stealing "seki's" design. Neither one of them stepped up and admitted the truth and you expect me to trust them?

For the propaganda derby ramy put a bear on a shirt warning people to avoid the "godless killing machines," a line lifted directly from the Colbert Report. When I originally pointed it out he insisted it was original work and the bear was just a scary thing completely incidental. When I posted images and other people weighed in he then decided it had been an homage all along. He then removed the shirt so that no one would be able to see it and he can continue to pretend he's squeaky clean.

And it's not the first time he's claimed a pop culture reference to be his own original work and flip flopped once called on it. The difference is that most people on the boards of this site don't consider pop culture references without parody to be stealing. Most have expressed that they believe it to be their right to use whatever licensed or copyrighted characters/individuals/images however they like so people don't view it the same as seki stealing a design from a person because people don't create the stuff on TV or in movies, right?

And that's not even the tip of the iceberg. You can disagree fine, but to pretend that the distrust isn't warranted is being deliberately blind to the issue.

How many artists have been legitimately hated here? I can't think of any others. The only situation even remotely similar is cho, but I never really got involved in that much. From what I did see it was mostly people pissed that he relied on pop culture way too much and there was a large population of people at that time that still cared about originality and creativity. He wouldn't even stand out now except that he still would be doing better work than a vast majority of designers.

There is no blind hatred of designers based on their work. There isn't even blind hatred. ramy has worked hard to earn every bit of enmity he gets, which is mostly why he doesn't post anymore because the more he posted the more he put his foot in his mouth and pissed people off. By being silent he can pretend he's an innocent victim and all he needs are a few vocal people too lazy to actually look into the situation. And there's never any shortage of users/designers to champion the cause that the only point of shirt woot is to print shirts and make money by any means necessary.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
sonofsevenless wrote:blah



i would like to know why you cant just use your usual login name to post these "concerns" it diminishes your arguements that you felt the need to hide to say these things...

EDIT: also i believe ramyb has stated that he is no longer with seki, and doesnt know what she's up to these days. i dont have any proof of what he did before, and im pretty sure you dont either. you may have proof of what seki did, and you may have heard rumors from other people. but as far as woot is concerned. i dont think ramyb has done anything on here that deserves the hatred he gets. i understand you dont like him for all these things you say he's done, but that still doesnt mean he deserves to be attacked. you should just ignore him and everything he does, im sure it would make you both happier people. focus your attention on your own work if you have any or on your favorite artists if you dont. im sure if you spent the energy promoting your own or your favorites, instead of attacking ramyb, then that stuff could have printed 10 times over.

NameyMcName


quality posts: 10 Private Messages NameyMcName
megsck wrote:i would like to know why you cant just use your usual login name to post these "concerns" it diminishes your arguements that you felt the need to hide to say these things...



He could be on probation.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
NameyMcName wrote:He could be on probation.



shocking.

sonofsevenless


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sonofsevenless
megsck wrote:i would like to know why you cant just use your usual login name to post these "concerns" it diminishes your arguements that you felt the need to hide to say these things...

EDIT: also i believe ramyb has stated that he is no longer with seki, and doesnt know what she's up to these days. i dont have any proof of what he did before, and im pretty sure you dont either. you may have proof of what seki did, and you may have heard rumors from other people. but as far as woot is concerned. i dont think ramyb has done anything on here that deserves the hatred he gets. i understand you dont like him for all these things you say he's done, but that still doesnt mean he deserves to be attacked. you should just ignore him and everything he does, im sure it would make you both happier people. focus your attention on your own work if you have any or on your favorite artists if you dont. im sure if you spent the energy promoting your own or your favorites, instead of attacking ramyb, then that stuff could have printed 10 times over.



How's that working out for you? The working hard promoting your artwork and improving your craft. Printed yet? I only ask because your advice is as hollow as your sentiments. You don't think ramy has done anything because you haven't looked (and because he's done his best to erase what's out there).

It probably is a conspiracy though. He's a pariah at conventions, DA, Gaia, and shirt woot. One day long ago we here on the internets got together and decided that we were going to ruin an innocent person's life. We were bored you know. So we got on DA and his stuff was so shiny we couldn't take it. We like it dark in our basements so obviously we could not stand this affront. So we hatched a plot to surround him with false accusations in all aspects of his life and we made sure that no trace was left of our connection to the people in the other communities so it would be totally legit. Poor guy's never done a thing wrong in his life, but you know the lulz and whatnot. Had to be done. I have to maintain my anonymity or the internets would never take me back. You understand right?

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
megsck wrote:shocking.



The mods were a little trigger happy when Ramy's terrible robot shirt printed on saturday, I got banned for 4 days for saying his gun looked like a boomarang!

Sonof is right, people have damn good reason to dislike and suspect Ramy, him and Seki have done things like this before in other places. They are proven liars and cheaters, and it doesn't matter if Ramy says him and Seki are no longer partners you think he's going to just change overnight?

If Tgentry says everything is OK regarding vote fraud then I'm willing to believe it's so, I don't think Woot has anything to gain from letting Ramy cheat the system, but that doesn't mean he isn't still worthy of dislike.

And that's not even getting into the fact that Ramy has for years output shoddy uncreative repetitive designs and still somehow made a fortune from it. That's reason alone to dislike him IMO

This controversy that Midge has sparked up will die down eventually and Ramy will continue to be the sand in alot of people's craw. That will never change until Ramy leaves or gets himself banned.

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck

focusing on my artwork and other artists i enjoy is working out great for me. my art has improved greatly with the amount of drawing im doing and in fact i will be getting a shirt printed soon on another site. i've been asked to be in galleries by other people who i've shared my woot work with, i've gotten a couple of freelance jobs off this site, and i think i've met and found some awesome people on here and have gotten some great advice by asking and sharing info. also, many designs that i have liked by other artists that i chose to send out to friends and urge them to vote have printed, im not saying i made them print, but i chose to focus on those than to find one artist that i dislike's artwork and tear it to pieces. there are submissions every derby that i dont get, or like, but i just dont vote for them and move on, or make a useful suggestion if needed. i dont personally attack the artist, and find the smallest thing to nick pick about their stuff. its not worth my time, and they dont need me clogging up their thread with hate. so by being positive and respectful and by focusing on my own stuff and the stuff of artists i like, i've accomplished a lot, and i havnt even been here that long. what have you done? oh wait, i dont even know who you are.

im not saying ramyb's a saint, i've heard all the stuff about the other sites, the internet BREEDS drama. i am just curious and baffled by the anger you seem to have against someone you dont even know. i dont understand why you just cant leave him alone and focus on something positive, like your own art or the art of whoever you deem worthy of your respect.

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
bluetuba wrote:
If Tgentry says everything is OK regarding vote fraud then I'm willing to believe it's so, I don't think Woot has anything to gain from letting Ramy cheat the system, but that doesn't mean he isn't still worthy of dislike.

And that's not even getting into the fact that Ramy has for years output shoddy uncreative repetitive designs and still somehow made a fortune from it. That's reason alone to dislike him IMO.



+1 to everything you said, but esp to the block quote above.

sonofsevenless


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sonofsevenless
megsck wrote:im not saying ramyb's a saint, i've heard all the stuff about the other sites, the internet BREEDS drama. i am just curious and baffled by the anger you seem to have against someone you dont even know. i dont understand why you just cant leave him alone and focus on something positive, like your own art or the art of whoever you deem worthy of your respect.



Because I know what woot is like without ramy. He didn't revolutionize the site or really bring anything new to the table. Part of his success has been because there was a preexisting desire for mindless cute designs. I don't mean to paint all woot users, but I guarantee you that if he could submit imposter every week it would print every week so that people could save $5. There has always been a balance between the averaged consumers desire for the same rehashed inanity and the willingness of the artists submitting to give it to them.

I'll certainly not say the site was perfect, but the balance swung in favor of artists refusing to compromise their craft just for wins. Ever wonder why Travis's print percentage is 13% and ramy's is 24%? Why partick's is nearly 27%. He could have those numbers if he wanted. But more than any other artist he refused to submit just to win.

I've seen enough of most people work here that for the major artists I never have to click the thumbnail. There are a few surprises here or there but for the most part Robbie, Boots, Drakxxx, ramy, patrick, cmdixon, radiomode, Edgar etc, aren't hard to pick out. They all change subject matter and execution to varying degrees and it's obvious that some are really trying to push themselves and some aren't. You still get a line on them. I don't think there was a time up to the point that he stopped submitting that I could ever say, "yep, that's Travis."

Look at his catalog. If there's I style he hasn't tried I haven't seen it. I'm not sure he has a style. That's why he's so well loved. He always brought his best work to the table and always pushed himself even though he probably knew he wasn't going to print.

ramy provided a roadmap for cashgrabbing. He tested the waters a bit here and there to see what might be profitable. The things that printed he continued to make. The things that didn't he dropped by the wayside immediately. He's got a rotation of about 3 kinds of designs and lately he doesn't even use two of them.

The worst thing that's ever happened at this site is that people see that success and want it. Look at patrick. He's got skills no question. People talk about how skilled ramy is, patrick really is the real deal. But look at his catalog. He's followed ramy's path from start to finish and he's collected a wealth of prints on the way.

And anymore, that's the norm. The new designers that show up are here for the $1000 plus $2 and the prestige. Look at the derby. There's very little variation. Everyone is converging on the same style. The problem is that most people don't have the throng of rabid fans ramy does and can't print, but that leads to increased pandering to try to get over the hump.

Not only that but they view ramy as something of a role model. Something to aspire to and all that does is chase away all of the other people who care about their craft. There's a few who have stuck around because they've managed to amass a decent enough following to chance at a print while still being able to improve their work.

The thing that disappoints me the most is that woot clearly has problems that have completely exacerbated the decline. And when I say woot I mean woot. It's become more and more clear that the many of the shirt.woot staff really would like things to be better. I think in particular Joel would really like things to be better. But from everything I have seen their hands are tied completely by their superiors at woot who really do only seem to care about the site because it sells a lot of shirts. They don't care what's on it.

Look at what's going on. ramy's average vote total is over 100 higher than the next closest. seki's is even higher she's been banned before for fake accounts. The major accusations for which there is a lot of photo evidence, or at least used to be, is that they had family friends and others to apply for and man their extra tables at conventions. Sometimes upwards 13 tables in some cases and they are still doing it. Woot has already said it isn't concerned about people have 2 accounts. You really think it's not reasonable that he doesn't have those same 13 or 20 or 50 or who knows how many people buy a shirt and vote.

Where do you really think those votes are coming from? Patrick has more prints in less time and still have 100 fewer votes on average. If you're getting around 500 votes per derby and you can spot yourself even 20 every time you are going to dramatically increase your print total. That's been his MO all along.

If you want to call that within the rules fine. As far as woot is concerned it is. But that puts at a disadvantage any artist who doesn't have control over that kind of voting block. And we've lost a ton of great ones because of it to the detriment of the community and the art. The only reason I haven't left is to support the good artists that are still here and because woot hasn't descended completely into the depths yet because thankfully it still isn't Teefury.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation

I dont know what's going on in here...but Pokemon Black is kicking my butt.

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
sonofsevenless wrote:thankfully it still isn't Teefury.



Hahaha, hi Adder.

So, to sum things up, the evidence of Ramy's wrong-doing that you have demonstrated is:

- He used to work with Seki, who printed with stolen artwork here and who we know cheated elsewhere

- He once made a Colbert parody

and

- It would be theoretically possible for him to have fake accounts, since he wins so much money.

Lovely. Except that no one ever tried to push Riffmaster18 off the site when his frequent collab partner Cheesesandwich stole artwork (and no one should, because that would be ridiculous). And there's not actually anything wrong with making a shirt about "godless killing machines" (maybe unwise depending on the derby theme, but not illegal or immoral). And it's ridiculous to continue claiming fake accounts when you can't present any proof of it beyond conjecture, especially when Woot has said repeatedly that it is not a factor.

Come back when you have actual proof of Ramy doing something wrong. If he's so awful it shouldn't be hard, right?

I did enjoy the dig at TeeFury though, so thanks for that :p

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
geekfactor12 wrote:Hahaha, hi Adder.

So, to sum things up, the evidence of Ramy's wrong-doing that you have demonstrated is:

- He used to work with Seki, who printed with stolen artwork here and who we know cheated elsewhere

- He once made a Colbert parody

and

- It would be theoretically possible for him to have fake accounts, since he wins so much money.

Lovely. Except that no one ever tried to push Riffmaster18 off the site when his frequent collab partner Cheesesandwich stole artwork (and no one should, because that would be ridiculous). And there's not actually anything wrong with making a shirt about "godless killing machines" (maybe unwise depending on the derby theme, but not illegal or immoral). And it's ridiculous to continue claiming fake accounts when you can't present any proof of it beyond conjecture, especially when Woot has said repeatedly that it is not a factor.

Come back when you have actual proof of Ramy doing something wrong. If he's so awful it shouldn't be hard, right?

I did enjoy the dig at TeeFury though, so thanks for that :p



I have always kind of felt this way, but after may last submission, my feelings are even stronger. There is less of a "prove it" attitude here and more of a repeat the same one fact over and over. Wether it applies here or not, I don't know. You are right in the sense that I haven't really seen any hard evidence... just reputation of words.


artulo


quality posts: 13 Private Messages artulo

Wow, there's a lot of words in this thread!

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
artulo wrote:Wow, there's a lot of words in this thread!



^This. And if you boiled 'em all down to their essence, you might get one good sentence.
I'm bored. :|

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
midgerock wrote:Dear wooters,



Dude, I think I've said before you have quite a pair. Kudos to you for doing what you feel is the right thing. And I hope you don't read the entire thread here - it'll just depress you.
Looking forward to more of your entries.

sonofsevenless


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sonofsevenless
geekfactor12 wrote:snip



Sorry, not Adder. Good guess though I suppose. I know what passes for parody these days, but taking something from pop culture and claiming it as your own original work with no outside inspiration whatsoever isn't it. And the manipulation of the system to get extra tables at conventions is ramy. You can say that woot says cheating isn't going on but it doesn't consider having friends and family making accounts and using them to upvote your designs cheating. So woot's statements are meaningless in that respect. You can accept that, but it's not the way a contest should be run.

There's also a big difference between a collaboration partner and live in girlfriend whom you've always done a majority of their work for them. When she was banned from DA ramy gave her one of his accounts so she could put her work back up and attempted to hide who she was so she could avoid the ban. But you're right, it's completely unreasonable to think he'd do it again.

It's funny because it's mostly the same people saying the same things about ramy that were said about seki. And every single one of them was just as smug as sure that, "everything was fine. Find evidence. Obviously if woot is letting them print nothing is wrong."

You've been here long enough to know that woot never checks and if they do I'm not sure what they're checking. Most of the cases of stolen work or images the design is questions is the I need a lift! first result of a google search. And those are the ones that have been found. Their vetting is sloppy at best and I have very little doubt that the lack of effort or concern spreads into other aspects of the business as well.

But hey, continue to throw rocks at your strawman. It's certainly been working so far.

Darquis


quality posts: 27 Private Messages Darquis
sonofsevenless wrote:Good guess though I suppose.



Eh. No offense to you or Adder, but you are very clearly not Adder.

CapSea


quality posts: 54 Private Messages CapSea
CapSea wrote:I'm not going to remark on whether or not he's cheating, but one thing I think is important is that winning by not cheating isn't that hard either if you know how to market yourself.

2,000 votes is not a lot of people. If you take time to build a network of fans by doing things like running a Twitter account, creating a Facebook fan page, and even pandering by finding ways to legally bribe people into liking your work (or what have you), you can easily build up a voting block that would catapult good art up the latter.

I've even considered offering this type of service before with my own work. Rallying people behind a design isn't too tough if you're willing to look at it from a business perspective. So while he may or may not be cheating, there are avenues that I don't think enough artists are taking advantage of to give themselves a similar shot.



Not to beat a dead horse, but again, I don't see many of the artists here making an effort to treat this contest like a business. As long as you're still true to your art, there's nothing wrong with starting a little bit of marketing. Most of the artists here are prominent on more than one shirt site. Market yourselves to get things like Twitter and blog followers, and rally them together after you make a design. I would bet that if just one artist tried to market themselves more, they'd start winning derbies ad nauseum. There's nothing wrong with marketing yourselves as long as you don't make your art worse to do it.

This is a vote system, and until that changes, you may as well find a way to market yourself to get votes. If I ever learn to turn my sketches into graphic design you can bet that I'd be doing this as well, and I don't think it would be that hard to generate a few hundred extra votes in support without breaking any site rules.

kevlar51


quality posts: 46 Private Messages kevlar51
CapSea wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but again, I don't see many of the artists here making an effort to treat this contest like a business. As long as you're still true to your art, there's nothing wrong with starting a little bit of marketing. Most of the artists here are prominent on more than one shirt site. Market yourselves to get things like Twitter and blog followers, and rally them together after you make a design. I would bet that if just one artist tried to market themselves more, they'd start winning derbies ad nauseum. There's nothing wrong with marketing yourselves as long as you don't make your art worse to do it.

This is a vote system, and until that changes, you may as well find a way to market yourself to get votes. If I ever learn to turn my sketches into graphic design you can bet that I'd be doing this as well, and I don't think it would be that hard to generate a few hundred extra votes in support without breaking any site rules.



It's a bit harder than that though. I post on Twitter when I've got a design up, but I also don't have tons of followers. I have a couple really nice friends that have 1000+ followers that will often RT my entries, but I really don't think that produces a ton of votes (i.e. less than 20). A lot of things need to line up: a) they need to be an eligible voter, b) they need to be on twitter to see your tweet, and c) they need to care enough to click on the link from twitter.

That being said, feel free to follow me!
kevlar51 on twitter!

CapSea


quality posts: 54 Private Messages CapSea
kevlar51 wrote:It's a bit harder than that though. I post on Twitter when I've got a design up, but I also don't have tons of followers. I have a couple really nice friends that have 1000+ followers that will often RT my entries, but I really don't think that produces a ton of votes (i.e. less than 20). A lot of things need to line up: a) they need to be an eligible voter, b) they need to be on twitter to see your tweet, and c) they need to care enough to click on the link from twitter.

That being said, feel free to follow me!
kevlar51 on twitter!



Well, that's what I'm saying. You need to market yourself, not just your designs. Get more people to follow you. Follow lots of people yourself too (since that creates more followers), put a Twitter link that people will want to click on on the bottom of your profile, and try to find a way to get Wooters to follow you. Comment on regular woot.com if you have to, since most of those people will be voting eligible. Also, doing things like starting a blog or an art page, etc., and marketing that as well - all of those will get more and more people.

Once you've developed that list of followers (on both Facebook and Twitter) then you post your new designs and you'll watch them shoot up. Posting some tweets and expecting people to follow you isn't enough.

Even if you get only 30 more people each time thanks to Twitter, that 30 may be the difference between winning and losing. Up that to 100 and suddenly you're in the fog more. Up it by another 100 and you're winning derbies all the time.

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba

Anybody else think it's a little ironic that immediately after the latest big "Ramyb is a cheater" drama erupts he prints two weeks in a row? And how much do you want to bet his coffee shirt prints next week too. Coincidence?

Woot thinks Ramyb is happier than everybody else? I'll bet he's laughing his ass off.

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

fishbiscuit5


quality posts: 35 Private Messages fishbiscuit5
kevlar51 wrote:It's a bit harder than that though. I post on Twitter when I've got a design up, but I also don't have tons of followers. I have a couple really nice friends that have 1000+ followers that will often RT my entries, but I really don't think that produces a ton of votes (i.e. less than 20). A lot of things need to line up: a) they need to be an eligible voter, b) they need to be on twitter to see your tweet, and c) they need to care enough to click on the link from twitter.

That being said, feel free to follow me!
kevlar51 on twitter!



All great points, kevlar. With that said, follow me too and vote for my shirts! (shameless plug and attempt at marketing)
http://twitter.com/fishbiscuit2000







BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
sonofsevenless wrote:
Ever wonder why Travis's print percentage is 13% and ramy's is 24%? Why partick's is nearly 27%. He could have those numbers if he wanted. But more than any other artist he refused to submit just to win.

Look at his catalog. If there's I style he hasn't tried I haven't seen it. I'm not sure he has a style. That's why he's so well loved. He always brought his best work to the table and always pushed himself even though he probably knew he wasn't going to print.



Travis, is that you? ;)

Um... my Facebook!
And my Twitter


bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation

Wheee me on facebook, twitter below! My plans to gain 100000000 followers who like rodent shirts is in motion!! BUWAHAHAHAH!

Also, to add to this, I often promote other artists work via my Twitter and FB. Even if I am in the derby, I will tweet or post things I like on Woot or elsewhere .

CapSea


quality posts: 54 Private Messages CapSea

Cool, I started a trend. Probably a good idea to try to promote those to people other than the artists you're competing against though =).

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
CapSea wrote:Cool, I started a trend. Probably a good idea to try to promote those to people other than the artists you're competing against though =).



No good artist is competing against any other good artist in any way that would make such promotion a bad idea. The general consensus among talented people is that it is absolutely fine to lose so long as the loss is to someone talented and work which is good enough to justify it.

The fact is that certain people are weekly shown to be off theme, regularly steal work, have zero desire to put effort into their work, and win regularly. You can argue that this is on the up and up, but all that implies is that the voters have no understanding of how to vote, and that's even worse. You can argue that there is never an off theme design unrejected, never a design stolen from either a popular trademarked character or a former shirt, and always the most creative, best done tees winning. Evidence exists in spades against certain users. It's not just that people hate them. People hate them because of the evidence they have provided time and time again. (oh, and to note: Cho was hated because he won so damn much and did work of a higher caliber than most. He also had the occasional piss-fit when he saw absolutely terrible work winning and his own lamenting nowhere near the top. If he was hated for anything, it was likely for being insurmountable competition in a young contest while not accepting the idea of mediocre work trouncing work he put hours into).

It's also fact that multiple accounts exist. So if Travis or Joel or Snapster (but then, Snapster shouldn't be trusted to carry an egg across a kitchen without dropping it, let alone to tell the truth) says someone isn't cheating, what does that mean? They don't have more than one fake voting account? Not more than five? They have up to 100, but their shirts sell well enough that this number isn't considered an issue? If EVEN ONE VOTING ACCOUNT exists, it can effect a whole derby. We know these exist. People have admitted to them. People have posted on their fake accounts in ways that made their real identities obvious. Woot hasn't done anything to stop it. So woot not being concerned, and woot treating every user equally (which is blatantly not true if you watch the derby with an honest mind for a month), doesn't necessarily mean no one is cheating. They're just not cheating in ways woot is concerned about, or else not cheating so much that it is outside the realm that some others are cheating.

And on that topic, really guys, would I ever use the word "anymore" as sloppily as that other dude did? The cult of "too long didn't read" fails again, because actually reading would have made it obvious. It's more indicative of how pathetic and scared this community is when it comes to defending itself that there is a belief that only I could hold such opinions than it is indicative of my being wrong. the people who flat-out disagree with me are usually also the people who have been regularly caught selling other people's work as their own, and admitted they were here not for the creation, but for the win. History proves that, though proving that history myself would never be allowed to remain posted. History proves a lot of things. There are users that legit artists only talk about like they'd talk about a yipping dog. There are sites that legit users all, to a wo/man, consider a laughingstock. There are incidents we all remember and just never bring up (or else are deleted/probated when we do). Who are you trying to fool implying only one person can see all that? ESPECIALLY people who have only been here but briefly.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5

IP logging and web stats trump multiple logins.
when votes = sales, how can that be cheating?

move along

alfbo


quality posts: 12 Private Messages alfbo
j5 wrote:IP logging and web stats trump multiple logins.
when votes = sales, how can that be cheating?



Because an artist could have multiple accounts that have purchased one or more woot items, and could use each of those accounts to log one vote for their own shirt design.

Imposter Pete was Unprepared for the Almost Human Nightmare Cuckoo Clock. The Walrus and Eggmen were the Height of Envy at the Monkey Bar. See the DJ spinning records on a Flora Phonograph while simultaneously playing Rock, Paper, Scissorhold.