Shirt.Woot

I don't understand the science/math, but the design is so beautiful I may have to get it anyway. Maybe I'll put electrical tape over the equation so nobody asks me about it ...

DrWurm wrote:I brought that up in the derby, but apparently the artist was going for sound waves, not light waves.

Shouldn't any graphical representation of waves reflect the wavelength to color relation of light? Does sound have color?

As someone once said to Dan Rather, "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

Awesome! I had a feeling this was going to place, it had such an amazing shoot-up to the fog!

Congrats, Amreli!!

The only way this could have been better is if the shorter wavelength bands were on the more violet (energetic) side of the spectrum than the low frequency ones, but damn is it still nice! Can't wait 'til it arrives!!!

DrWurm wrote:I brought that up in the derby, but apparently the artist was going for sound waves, not light waves.

But sound waves aren't transverse waves, so they wouldn't look like this.

A sound wave looks more like
::: : : : : : : : : : : : :::: : : : :

TracerBuIIet wrote:But sound waves aren't transverse waves, so they wouldn't look like this.

A sound wave looks more like
::: : : : : : : : : : : : :::: : : : :

That may be the physical representation, but it's not exactly mathematically friendly, is it? Sinusoidal wave analysis is used in all sorts of areas where the actual, physical, wave is not a transverse wave or may not even have a distinct physical form.

Love the shirt. Really glad it got printed.

joemail11 wrote:Shouldn't any graphical representation of waves reflect the wavelength to color relation of light? Does sound have color?

Different media...light is electromagnetic energy/radiation/made of photons/waves. Sound waves are the transmission of pressure through matter (which is why sound doesn't travel in a vacuum).

Also, this specifically relates to harmonics, which are waves that have frequencies that are multiples of the fundamental frequency, for example a fundamental tone of 440 Hz would have a second harmonic of 880 Hz (and half the wavelength). Visible light has frequencies between around 400–790 THz(wavelengths ~390nm to 760nm), which since the highest frequency is still less than double the lowest, means it doesn't even get to the second harmonic. If any of that makes sense.

I did sound waves/harmonics because that was more appropriate to a middle school science fair project than light waves.

...aaand I think that's enough science/math for 2 am...

joemail11 wrote:Shouldn't any graphical representation of waves reflect the wavelength to color relation of light? Does sound have color?

No, aside from similar mathematics, the physics driving light and sound wave are entirely different.

As for the representation, you could actually make an argument for the coloration the artist used. Longer wavelengths would be bassy and shorter ones would be high-pitched. If you're asking me, I'd associate bass with cooler colors than high pitched sound. Think about the colors associated with a bass riff and a guitar solo.

Edit: The "light" of sound waves would be pitch. We can hear from about 20 to 20000 Hz.

DrWurm wrote:No, aside from similar mathematics, the physics driving light and sound wave are entirely different.

As for the representation, you could actually make an argument for the coloration the artist used. Longer wavelengths would be bassy and shorter ones would be high-pitched. If you're asking me, I'd associate bass with cooler colors than high pitched sound. Think about the colors associated with a bass riff and a guitar solo.

Yes.

Wavelength on wikipedia

Now I'm educated enough to buy this awesome t-shirt!

amreli wrote:
Also, this specifically relates to harmonics, which are waves that have frequencies that are multiples of the fundamental frequency, for example a fundamental tone of 440 Hz would have a second harmonic of 880 Hz (and half the wavelength). Visible light has frequencies between around 400–790 THz(wavelengths ~390nm to 760nm), which since the highest frequency is still less than double the lowest, means it doesn't even get to the second harmonic. If any of that makes sense.

I'm not really sure, but shouldn't the seventh wave (lime green) be a little of center, and not meet up at the same node as the other waves?

If we say the largest wave is the musical note C2, the corresponding notes would be (starting from the first):

C2, C3, G3, C4, E4, G4, ?, G5

In the harmonic series, the seventh harmonic would be B-flat(4) for this example. B-flat being a minor third above G, the ratio would be 6:5. So, my thinking is that the seventh wave (B-flat4) would cross at the fifth node of the sixth wave (G4)- making the 6:5 ratio for the minor third - then come back down a little short of the meeting point of all the other waves.

Like I said, I'm not sure. Could you explain if this is incorrect?

glassporcupine wrote:I'm not really sure, but shouldn't the seventh wave (lime green) be a little of center, and not meet up at the same node as the other waves?

If we say the largest wave is the musical note C2, the corresponding notes would be (starting from the first):

C2, C3, G3, C4, E4, G4, ?, G5

In the harmonic series, the seventh harmonic would be B-flat(4) for this example. B-flat being a minor third above G, the ratio would be 6:5. So, my thinking is that the seventh wave (B-flat4) would cross at the fifth node of the sixth wave (G4)- making the 6:5 ratio for the minor third - then come back down a little short of the meeting point of all the other waves.

Like I said, I'm not sure. Could you explain if this is incorrect?

Well, mathematically harmonics are whole-number multiples of the fundamental frequency...so the 7th harmonic frequency is *exactly* 7 times the fundamental frequency (and therefore the wavelength is 1/7th). The 12 chromatic semitones in the Western scale do not exactly correspond to some of the harmonics, the 7th being one of those most out of tune. As for an explanation of why that is, I'm not sure, since my experience is mainly with physics and not with music theory, though I think it has to do with the fact that the human ear doesn't respond linearly to sound.

As a non-physics major, I would kill for an explanation of this what looks to be awesome shirt.

This is the beauty of all music, this is what your ear gets to understand, and this is why music is beautiful. I wish I could see sound waves. Great image, but I don't know if I'd wear it around as a tshirt....

amreli wrote:Well, mathematically harmonics are whole-number multiples of the fundamental frequency...so the 7th harmonic frequency is *exactly* 7 times the fundamental frequency (and therefore the wavelength is 1/7th). The 12 chromatic semitones in the Western scale do not exactly correspond to some of the harmonics, the 7th being one of those most out of tune. As for an explanation of why that is, I'm not sure, since my experience is mainly with physics and not with music theory, though I think it has to do with the fact that the human ear doesn't respond linearly to sound.

That is why pianos are constructed so that the hammers strike the strings 1/7th of their length from the end. This causes an anti-node at that point which suppresses the 7th harmonic.

amreli wrote:Well, mathematically harmonics are whole-number multiples of the fundamental frequency...so the 7th harmonic frequency is *exactly* 7 times the fundamental frequency (and therefore the wavelength is 1/7th). The 12 chromatic semitones in the Western scale do not exactly correspond to some of the harmonics, the 7th being one of those most out of tune. As for an explanation of why that is, I'm not sure, since my experience is mainly with physics and not with music theory, though I think it has to do with the fact that the human ear doesn't respond linearly to sound.

The 12 Tone Equal Temperament Western scale has only gained significant popularity relatively recently (18th century). You're correct; its not equal-tempered linearly; its equal-tempered logarithmically. In twelve tone equal temperament, some harmonic accuracy of certain intervals is sacrificed in exchange for the ability to transpose throughout all 12 major and minor keys. Before the prominence of equal temperament, certain keys would sound "better" or "worse" than others because they were harmonically more or less accurate; this made it impossible to write in certain keys under certain tuning systems (it also made it a pain to play keyboard/percussion/some stringed instruments because one would have to retune to play in a different key).

p.s. Love the shirt

amreli wrote:Different media...light is electromagnetic energy/radiation/made of photons/waves. Sound waves are the transmission of pressure through matter (which is why sound doesn't travel in a vacuum).

Also, this specifically relates to harmonics, which are waves that have frequencies that are multiples of the fundamental frequency, for example a fundamental tone of 440 Hz would have a second harmonic of 880 Hz (and half the wavelength). Visible light has frequencies between around 400–790 THz(wavelengths ~390nm to 760nm), which since the highest frequency is still less than double the lowest, means it doesn't even get to the second harmonic. If any of that makes sense.

It kinda doesn't. You can have sound waves of a single frequency with no harmonics (just avoid non-linearities), and just because you can't see the 2nd harmonic of, say, 550nm green, doesn't mean you won't get burned by the 275nm UV if you pass it through a non-linear medium.

In fact, y'know those green laser pointers everyone is supposedly blinding airplanes with? There's no green laser in those -- they have an infrared laser shining through an optically non-linear crystal to generate the second harmonic.

amreli wrote:I did sound waves/harmonics because that was more appropriate to a middle school science fair project than light waves.

But if you say they're sound waves, then they're sound waves. Obviously. ;)

Synesthesia will help you see sound.

Elegant. Very wearable thanks to your color choices and distressing. Congrats on a great first print, amreli!

I love science art.

Really congrats in your print amreli! love it and look awesome!!!!

Beautiful design, and bonus points for not being yet another asphalt or black tee. I'm in for one. I'm being a little spendthrifty lately, this is the third shirt woot for me in a month. But this is by far the best, congrats amreli.

jacroe wrote:As a non-physics major, I would kill for an explanation of this what looks to be awesome shirt.

Non-physics major here too (just a lowly CS), but I'll take a shot from what I remember from high school. Please fling monkey offal in a markedly irate manner should I b0rk anything.

The shirt shows several sinusoidal wave (waves that can be modeled using a sine function) graphs superimposed over eachother. The different waves being graphed each have different wavelengths (the distance that a wave travels before the function starts repeating itself.)

The equation is lambda (which is wavelength) = velocity divided by frequency. This equation is a fundamental rule of how waves are handled mathematically. Velocity is how fast the wave is moving. Frequency is how often the wave cycles through its wavelength; measured in Hz, it's the reciprocal (1 divided by) of the period (the amount of time it takes the wave to move through one wavelength.)

Love the design! Welcome to the wild world of woot!

Also,
totally digging the reference to the smiths in the condition there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiZ-S76ItdY

At least yesterday's shirt fit the theme.

sparrowhawk69 wrote:I looked at it & looked at it & now my head hertz

That frequently happens. However, in signing up for the forums, you have waved all liability of Woot. They refuse to oscillate on this matter, even if your nausea becomes graphical.

The small text may have been hard to c, but it's no light matter - it's actually fairly fundamental. It sounds like something that would resonate strongly with any judge in harmony with the legalities of his profession. Most lawyers wouldn't take the case even if you were super imposing. It's unlikely you'd penetrate past even the preliminary hearing.

Why is Woot so concerned about legislation? Consider it a sine of the times.

I would get one if the formula were actually corrected. It should read f = v/lambda.

If you wanted Lambda isolated on one side of the equation it should then read Lambda = f/v


I'm just sayin!

Kilo24 wrote:The equation is lambda (which is wavelength) = velocity divided by frequency. This equation is a fundamental rule of how waves are handled mathematically. Velocity is how fast the wave is moving. Frequency is how often the wave cycles through its wavelength; measured in Hz, it's the reciprocal (1 divided by) of the period (the amount of time it takes the wave to move through one wavelength.)

Thank you Kilo. Now us muggles can at least attempt to explain the awesomeness of this shirt when we are undoubtedly gonna be asked. I don't really care what it means or if it is appropriate to the theme, I voted for it because it is just mesmerizing. And I love the colors! And it is appropriate for all ages and genders. My radioman hubby will also attempt to 'explain' this shirt to me when I get it for him, I will just smile and nod, hehe.

vinreaper wrote:I would get one if the formula were actually corrected. It should read f = v/lambda.

If you wanted Lambda isolated on one side of the equation it should then read Lambda = f/v


I'm just sayin!

Okay, to consider the units:
Lambda = wavelength = distance
Velocity = distance / time
Frequency = 1 / time

If the equation were Lambda = f/v you'd have:
distance = (time / time) / distance = 1/distance

Generally, meters ^ (-1) do not equal meters. At least in my small corner of the universe.

If you derived it from f = v/Lambda, please remember that dividing both sides by v means that you've got 1/Lambda on one side, not just Lambda.

If I buy this, will it be in 3D?
I kinda hope not...seeing things in 3D makes me dizzy and gives me a headache.

I had to place my order because I used to be an audio engineer. I'm a percussionist and my bandmates will wish they wooted for this shirt!

zekecatz wrote:As someone once said to Dan Rather, "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

That comment made me laugh out loud! However, I'm currently in the hospital and easily amused.

sparrowhawk69 wrote:I looked at it & looked at it & now my head hertz

Well done sir, well done.

congrats amreli--nice work!

Its about Standing Waves.

Thanks amreli for the great design. I'll be wearing it in the Bull City.

Sigh, why'd it have to be a black shirt?

Would have bought if anything other than black or brown, the two colors my wardrobe is already overloaded with.

jobezark wrote:Sigh, why'd it have to be a black shirt?

Would have bought if anything other than black or brown, the two colors my wardrobe is already overloaded with.

It's not black, it's navy.

I wonder if my Signals and Systems professor would like this. Too bad I dropped the class already ;D