Shirt.Woot

fluttersby8 wrote:
Also, I am not a chick, a broad or a dame. Nor am I a guy or a lad. I am, in point of fact, an otter.

Based on your picture I'd say you were a narwhal

annewaterman wrote:Wow, this speaks volumes....*volumes*

shirt.woot just gave us their answer...

In order to stay in business they've got to meet the demands and standards set forth by Amazon (like it or not) OR Amazon will take shirt.woot and flush it down the toilet...or worse, send printing overseas too.

I'm satisfied with that answer...I'd rather keep some of shirt.woot in the USA rather than none of it. Thanks llandar

I think you are reading way too much into that.
llander works for Woot.
He does his job so as to continue working for Woot.
Hondurans, for the most part, don't have a great grasp of the subtlety, nuance, and whimsicle memery that US writers possess.
His job is secure....until goldenthorn the usurper makes a power play.

I wonder how many people here complaining about the shirts not being made in the U.S. ACTUALLY made sure they were made in the U.S. before they bought their first woot shirt. I also wonder how many of those people buy items from the other woot sites that were not U.S. made.


How can people complain so much about something they've yet to actually see? Wait til you actually get a shirt in your hands and see it and wear it and wash it a couple of times. I mean, come on! This whole thing is pretty ridiculous.

Don't worry woot. I'll keep buying GOOD shirts. Most derby winners suck anymore, but once in awhile some actual art will come through and I look forward to those days.

annewaterman wrote:Wow, this speaks volumes....*volumes*

shirt.woot just gave us their answer...

In order to stay in business they've got to meet the demands and standards set forth by Amazon (like it or not) OR Amazon will take shirt.woot and flush it down the toilet...or worse, send printing overseas too.

I'm satisfied with that answer...I'd rather keep some of shirt.woot in the USA rather than none of it. Thanks llandar

I think you're interpreting this incorrectly. If it was a "message", I think I would see the relationships as Woot and American Apparel, not Woot and Amazon.

In order to continue their relationship, AA would need to meet the demands and standards set forth by Woot. They didn't and got replaced.

That's my take on it.

Or perhaps it wasn't a "message" at all.

annewaterman wrote:Wow, this speaks volumes....*volumes*

shirt.woot just gave us their answer...

In order to stay in business they've got to meet the demands and standards set forth by Amazon (like it or not) OR Amazon will take shirt.woot and flush it down the toilet...or worse, send printing overseas too.

I'm satisfied with that answer...I'd rather keep some of shirt.woot in the USA rather than none of it. Thanks llandar

Just for the record, I was implying none of that.

*EDIT* And I want to reiterate the "no input or insight into the decision* part.

I think an extremely liberal return policy in the beginning would be fair. Say, the first month or two that the new shirts are in full rotation. By that time, people should have made up their minds on the Anvil stuff.

Adding my voice to many others.

I love the feel of the AA shirts.

I am a short little female who had two kids in two years, and I'm still about 30 pounds away from a safe tubby weight for my height, and up about 50 pounds from my ideal (healthy slim) weight. My tracts of land were a problem before; now my beer gut is so big that even a Ladies XL is too clingy and I've been buying Men's L shirts.

This is true here, at Ript and Teefury. I have occasionally seen to-die-for designs at those other sites, but the t-shirt quality there, both in comfort/softness and correctness of fit, made me wait until I saw a design that I just COULD NOT live without. (Not to mention the extra few bucks worth of shirt cost, plus shipping).

In contrast, over here, I pick up anything that I like a lot, because I know the shirt is going to be comfy and fit right.
I have basically purchased a new wardrobe consisting of two weeks' worth of woot shirts in the past 6 months.

All that being said, it makes me VERY nervous to buy any new shirts knowing that they'll be on shirts that are differently shaped and different weight/texture/etc. Add to that a $2 price increase, and now there is a much smaller gap between Woot and those competitors (they're both still charging $10 for the shirt and a small shipping fee).

So, there's that.

And there's also the point brought up by dozens before me: I could swear this price increase was so that Woot could continue offering the shirts they do. And regardless of sweatshop status, imported tees are imported tees.

Still, I think the fit and feel are going to be the deciding factor. I'm going to be really disappointed if I order a shirt and can't wear it nor return it.... and it won't happen twice.

bluejester wrote:

This made me laugh out loud, and I needed that in this thread. Thank you.

llandar wrote:As a mere writer with no input or insight into the decision, I much prefer Shirt.Woot look out for the American job I currently hold. Call it selfish if you must.

I don't think that's selfish of you, but it's crazy that Woot said you would lose your job if this supplier change didn't happen! That is so outlandish, I can hardly believe it!

That IS what you were implying there, right? 'Cause that's definitely how it came off.

As someone who works for a large t-shirt printing company and who has had some recent experience with handling and wearing both of these shirt styles, I can't say this news makes me happy.
To go up in price and down in quality is just a really shame. AA shirts feel nicer and fit better, no questions asked in my mind. If you had raised the price and switched to Canvas/Bella, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Will the new supplier enable you to carry XXXL shirts? If not, I'm still gonna have to be wootshirtless.

Leahbh wrote:I wonder how many people here complaining about the shirts not being made in the U.S. ACTUALLY made sure they were made in the U.S. before they bought their first woot shirt. I also wonder how many of those people buy items from the other woot sites that were not U.S. made.

My father is a retired autoworker. I've never owned a foreign company's car--until Daimler bought Chrysler. I've lived in areas in the South damaged when the fabric/yarn and clothing manufacturers decided to leave the states for cheaper labor. I shop American made. Can I always only buy American made? No, but it was what made me trip the trigger and start buying graphic tees in massive quantities from Woot.

I'm done, probably with Woot itself for a while because if they were testing this for a substantial amount of time (as some staffers seem to indicate was going on) then woot.com employees lied outright to people questioning the price increase just a couple of weeks ago.

I can buy directly from Artists and keep screenprinters employed and achieve all that I would achieve from buying here. If I buy from local artists they'll even be members of my community.

I thought it might be interesting to count all the comments where people mentioned that the combination of the price increase AND the supplier change, in rapid succession, was a problem for them. There were 42. Terms like "money grab"/"profit grab", "bait and switch", and even "shady" came up repeatedly. I was going to quote them all, but I decided that was overkill in the forums, where everyone would have to at least scroll past it. (Those quotes may end up in an email to woot, though, just for the sake of emphasis.) And what I find even more interesting is that none of the comments from woot staff have addressed this concern at all, not even with snark or excuses.

Seriously, are the powers that be trying to ignore this concern in the hope that it will blow over? If that's the case, first of all, I don't think it will go away quite that easily. Second of all, it's not a very respectful way to treat members of a community that is supposedly the "backbone of Woot".

dolemite007 wrote:It totally is...personally, I feel that the AA shirts have both great strengths and weaknesses. They fit great, and sleeves don't billow out, and they're super-comfy. However, the sizes run wonky- one 2XL will be snug, while the next 2XL will be loose. Plus, the necks sometimes get stretched out. But overall, I love 'em.

That said, I will give Anvil a chance. But just one.

For what it's worth, I have a black Anvil blank and a black AA blank and I cannot tell the difference without checking the tag.

cptgone wrote:couldn't agree more. we want Belgian shirts, printed in Belgium, designed by Belgian artists.

If I were purchasing from a Belgian company, I would not be offended or surprised if that were the case. In general, Europe/EU have traditionally had much stronger protections in place for their laborers. Here in the US, we have to rely on speaking up to let companies know that their manufaturing choices will affect our spending.

I, too, am concerned about the change. Since I was happy with the old system, that's only natural.

Here's an option for WOOT to consider. To help assuage some of the concern about the quality of the new shirts, issue a $5 off $15 coupon for anyone who has bought a shirt from WOOT in the past year.

If this is too expensive (for WOOT), maybe limit it to those that have bought 10+ shirts here (or some other limits could be applied...these are just two ideas off the top of my head).

A coupon would lessen the "blow" of experimenting with a new blank, and would allow us frequent WOOTers to sample the quality without incurring as much financial "pain."

If the blanks are as good as the mods [EDIT: not only mods, but WOOT staff as well] here are reporting, letting us try the new shirts at a discount might bring some (many?) back to the fold (so to speak - see what I did there?). This isn't going to help with the USA versus Honduras issue, but that decision seems to be behind us already anyway...

missmelis wrote:I don't think that's selfish of you, but it's crazy that Woot said you would lose your job if this supplier change didn't happen! That is so outlandish, I can hardly believe it!

That IS what you were implying there, right? 'Cause that's definitely how it came off.

No. He's saying that the continued success of shirt.woot directly results in the continuation of llander.job.

ThunderThighs wrote:

FWIW, this wasn't a sudden decision. I was sent some test shirts over 2 years ago. I was sent a womens Anvil and I really liked it. I never order AA womens shirts.

Thank you for confirming that Woot lied to its customers. Why not save a price roll out to the new shirt blank was introduced? Why do it in this way that is underhanded and just plain bad business?

I am not bothering with the wootoff and I'll be sure to pass along this kind of coporate behavior to friends.

j5 wrote:I think you are reading way too much into that.
llander works for Woot.
He does his job so as to continue working for Woot.
Hondurans, for the most part, don't have a great grasp of the subtlety, nuance, and whimsicle memery that US writers possess.
His job is secure....until goldenthorn the usurper makes a power play.

taternuggets wrote:I think you're interpreting this incorrectly. If it was a "message", I think I would see the relationships as Woot and American Apparel, not Woot and Amazon.

In order to continue their relationship, AA would need to meet the demands and standards set forth by Woot. They didn't and got replaced.

That's my take on it.

Or perhaps it wasn't a "message" at all.

Well clearly I read wayyyyyy too much into that. I thought it was a "read between the lines" post.
Haha, well I tried. Imagine if it had been true? Then I might have gotten my own woot.decoded show on A&E

Leahbh wrote:I wonder how many people here complaining about the shirts not being made in the U.S. ACTUALLY made sure they were made in the U.S. before they bought their first woot shirt.

This guy for one. The made in U.S was one of the main reasons for even checking out shirt.woot. That and the shirts actually being designed by members of the community.

If the "1989: RIP Salvador Dali" design that cpresti has in the fog gets printed...Can you just use an old blank for mine. 0 : ) pweeease

That said, I'm gonna sit back and see how this turns out. "Goodluck"

davemays123 wrote:Assuming woot with AA shirts and $10 price-point was operating at a "razor-thin" profit margin as stated by the woot representative earlier, we'll say 5%. That means $.50 profit per shirt. Then they raise the price $2. They just quadrupled their profit. Pretty good, eh? Oh, no, not good enough by half. They then downgrade their shirts to a blank that conservatively has to cost AT LEAST $2-3 dollars less per unit, we'll say 2 to be nice. They are now making $4.50 profit. That is NINE TIMES the profit they were making per shirt two months ago.

I have no problem with woot making a decent profit, they aren't running a charity. I do find it rather hard to believe that a 800% increase in profit/shirt over a two month period is justifiable.

Would someone else evaluate this post for me? How good are these numbers? My expectation is that the blank price reduction is probably an understatement if anything.

ThunderThighs wrote:I thought a bit of identification might help as some people are thinking all staff posts are by moderators. In fact, there's been very few comments from mods in this thread.

joelterrific, ProfHotpants, and TGentry are Shirt.Woot staff. They either make or help make the decisions in all matters about shirt. When they post, you can listen.

llandar is a Woot writer.

inkycatz and I are forum moderators.


FWIW, this wasn't a sudden decision. I was sent some test shirts over 2 years ago. I was sent a womens Anvil and I really liked it. I never order AA womens shirts.

Oh, and my adult son was also a test candidate. He's very sensitive to itchy material. He loved the Anvil shirt and wore it constantly. He said it was better than the AA.

Thanks for all the clarification. Especially as a good number of us following this thread today don't actually frequent the forums as many of the others do.

I for one am feeling fairly at ease at this point. Yes, there are many concerns going around, and a lot of them are valid in the big picture sense. But personally, I love shirt.woot, don't mind paying $12 for a shirt I like, and I'm not going to waste my mental energy worrying that I won't like them anymore.

I even went through my t-shirts and found that I do have one Anvil shirt, and it's not one that's very comfortable. HOWEVER, this was a free t-shirt I got from a college activity. I'm confident that woot will be giving us much better quality. And anyone posting who has actually tried the exact blanks that woot will be using are speaking positively about them.

So in an effort to cease rambling, I'll just say I'm choosing to be optimistic, and plan to continue buying from shirt.woot.

I didn't know that much about American Apparel, so I Googled it. I had no idea they were such a Liberal company.

Now I'm kinda glad I'm not indirectly supporting them by buying Woot shirts.

j5 wrote:No. He's saying that the continued success of shirt.woot directly results in the continuation of llander.job.

Right, and I am saying that I haven't seen any proof that the continued success of shirt.woot is directly dependent on this series of decisions (the price increase followed by the change in shirt suppliers). All I see is woot trying to take more money out of my (and your) wallet while investing less of theirs in the quality of the product they're trying to sell me.

Magic Cave wrote:Will the new supplier enable you to carry XXXL shirts? If not, I'm still gonna have to be wootshirtless.

Woot shirts are, and long have been, available in an XXXL (although woot calls it 3X).

ThunderThighs wrote:I thought a bit of identification might help as some people are thinking all staff posts are by moderators. In fact, there's been very few comments from mods in this thread.

joelterrific, ProfHotpants, and TGentry are Shirt.Woot staff. They either make or help make the decisions in all matters about shirt. When they post, you can listen.

Listen to what? Their only response to tough questions or accusations about price or anything else has been "Nuh uh...."

There are a few facts that anyone knows for sure. The reason for that is because woot refuses to provide anything but typical PR boilerplate (as has already been pointed out many times). We do have one fact. Woot is getting $2 more per shirt than a did a few weeks ago.

What we can also guess at is that the change in supplier means that woot is paying $2-$3 less per blank (and that's probably a conservative estimate).

That's a net to woot of %50 the previous price to woot. I don't even want to guess what order of magnitude that is larger than the previous margin. We understand times are tough and that things get more expensive and that inflation happens. This kind of price increase is extreme and absolutely no information has been given to justify it.

Production in the US is something that many people care deeply about and something that was always a bright spot for woot. We understand that sometimes things like this have to be sacrificed, but don't expect anyone to feel good about it or give the benefit of the doubt with absolutely no justification.

Definitely not happy about this. I can buy awesome made in china shirts anywhere but I liked buying from woot because you have awesome shirts and support american business.

I suggest you switch back to AA or lose my moneys.

MBrulla wrote:This is just current demographic info from the OP...after the change will that be different...maybe?

My gf wears the WS/WM and they fit her well. I agree with the fact that they can be tight fitting for women with a larger bust, but since when is that a bad thing?

Since the 17 inch shoulder of the largest current womens size here is 2 inches too small for me. meaning I cannot even get them over my head... it isn't all about the breasts.

labrat0017 wrote:I would like to suggest that you offer the new shirts as blanks for us to try, preferably as cheap as the current blanks you are offering.

Hopefully they will let us know when the randoms are on the new blanks. That will be the cheapest way for me to try the woman's size.

blanked wrote:Hopefully they will let us know when the randoms are on the new blanks. That will be the cheapest way for me to try the woman's size.

Look for an informative post explaining the changes in Women's Sizes tonight at midnight.

I would totally support a coupon for a free shirt for us to test the quality of these Anvil shirts firsthand and risk-free. Maybe for everyone who bought multiple shirts in 2011.

llandar wrote:One could almost say it's on me then to make sure I meet the demands and standards set forth by my employer to ensure they don't look elsewhere.

The implication that so many Americans these days are losing their jobs due to performance issues is ... well, pretty burlap chafes me soy, imho.

I'm fairly certain most of my colleagues, who were laid off in the last couple of months due to outsourcing, would agree.

llandar wrote:Look for an informative post explaining the changes in Women's Sizes tonight at midnight.

Like.

llandar wrote:Look for an informative post explaining the changes in Women's Sizes tonight at midnight.

Thank you, but nothing beats an in person test

fluttersby8 wrote:
Also, I am not a chick, a broad or a dame. Nor am I a guy or a lad. I am, in point of fact, an otter.

But a male or female one? if you wanted to avoid that question you should have picked a genderless creature (or at least one that can switch genders).

davemays123 wrote:Assuming woot with AA shirts and $10 price-point was operating at a "razor-thin" profit margin as stated by the woot representative earlier, we'll say 5%. That means $.50 profit per shirt. Then they raise the price $2. They just quadrupled their profit. Pretty good, eh? Oh, no, not good enough by half. They then downgrade their shirts to a blank that conservatively has to cost AT LEAST $2-3 dollars less per unit, we'll say 2 to be nice. They are now making $4.50 profit. That is NINE TIMES the profit they were making per shirt two months ago.

I have no problem with woot making a decent profit, they aren't running a charity. I do find it rather hard to believe that a 800% increase in profit/shirt over a two month period is justifiable.

Josephus wrote:Would someone else evaluate this post for me? How good are these numbers? My expectation is that the blank price reduction is probably an understatement if anything.

I think davemays123's post is worth highlighting just because he put into numbers what dozens of people have been saying throughout this thread: after already widening their margins with the price hike, woot is increasing profits again by reducing their own costs, and possibly also the quality of the end product.

His numbers seem to be pretty solid, except that if woot was making a $.50 profit on every $10 shirt, they actually quintupled, rather than quadrupled, their profit when they raised the price to $12.

$2 is almost certainly a lowball estimate for the price difference between the older and newer shirts. Narfcake found these numbers for small lots of 60+ shirts:

Narfcake wrote:For those wondering the price difference ...

American Apparel 2001, $6.57 for 60+.
Anvil 980, $3.77 for 60+.

That's a price difference of $2.80/shirt for a relatively small lot, far fewer shirts than woot would ever buy at a time. I guess it's not a sure thing that the price difference per shirt would increase with the lot size, but it seems likely.

Just wanted to say that I really like Anvil's blanks. I'm happy for a switch away from American Apparel. As someone who prints shirts myself, I've never printed on AA. Blanks are too expensive and I don't like the fit.

American Apparel was/is? flirting with bankruptcy, so I see no shame finding a a different blank for that reason alone.

You've got my support, shirt.woot.

KimNicole wrote:Thank you for confirming that Woot lied to its customers. Why not save a price roll out to the new shirt blank was introduced? Why do it in this way that is underhanded and just plain bad business?

I am not bothering with the wootoff and I'll be sure to pass along this kind of coporate behavior to friends.

This lie that everyone keeps mentioning is rather concerning. I never saw their comments about the price increase being so that they could stay with AA/an American company. Do you have a link to that?

Goodbye shirt.woot. It has been nice knowing you. I'd rather spend my money on American products.

missmelis wrote:Woot shirts are, and long have been, available in an XXXL (although woot calls it 3X).

I should have worded my question more clearly. The 3X shirt woot carries now is the weirdest 3X I've ever seen or worn. I should have asked about a *standard size* 3X.

Many thanks for your response, however; the clarity problem was all mine.