Shirt.Woot

bluetuba wrote:

You win the universe. XD~~~

I finally finished reading all the comments. Took a while, but it seems most people should give these new shirts a chance. I will say that for me personally AA shirts are a perfect fit, and I spent a while trying to find a shirt that fit my oddly shaped body. For a guy that is about 5'9" and weighs 135 lbs, it isn't easy buying t-shirts. I buy men's mediums because my chest is on the border line of small and medium, and the length is just right(doesn't ride up on me when I sit down). Another plus was minimal pointy sleeves.

Shirt.Woot really got me into printed tees, and I love the site. That being said, I am willing to try the new shirts at least once. If they shrink as much as the AAs then the 3/8 inch difference in length might be the deal breaker for me.

As for the shirts not being made in America anymore, I am saddened by this, but it was never really the selling point for me. I pay for a well fitting tee that is witty or stunning at a reasonable price. I do support manufacturing in America, but it has become a rarity in these changing times.

morgankohl wrote:I agree with all of the arguments raised today. It *is* a crappy way to conduct business, and it's so unlike the Woot that I know and love. I don't, however, like the amount of flack that the staff has received. They're doing they best that they can to assuage a bad situation that they probably had little to no control over. Can you really expect them to agree with the mob? Light a torch and say to hell with my job and supporting my company? I think everyone should lay off a bit. Get mad at woot, by all means, but have a little more respect for the staffers.

Very well said.

I've been thinking a lot about this over the past couple of days. I am currently, desperately to trying to regain the optimism that once dominated my life, and in a bid to do so, I will give these new blanks the benifit of the doubt.

If I've accidently insulted a staffer along the way, I apologize. I'm concerned about the change, but I like the company and the people too much to simply toss it away in a fit of anger. Also, I totally get where the staff are coming from in terms of what they can and cannot say. Even at my current, meager retail job there are certain things that I am under obligation to both say and not say. That said, I really appreciate the staffers contributions to this thread, even when they deleted some of my own overboard snarky comments. They might sound like sucking up to some of you, but I don't want to fall into the habit of being rude. So when a post goes bye bye, I feel a bit embarrassed at what I might have done.

Thanks T. Thighs, Goldenthorn, Illander, Profpants, Joel, and others who might be monitoring this thread. I appreciate your feedback.

tsfisch wrote:
Google "American Apparel" and you'll find they weren't so much a clothing company as they were a social agenda.

You mean the social agenda to keep well-known sexual deviant Dov Charney hip-deep in the barely legal?

And that's why I'm conflicted over this. I mean, it's disappointing, sure, but I've always been suspicious of a progressive agenda wedded to such a depressingly tacky sexual one. It just shows a disturbing ability to compartmentalize, at best. And I know he's really only a garden-variety sexual deviant, I just like referring to him that way. I'm comfortable not supporting him, anyway.

TobiasAmaranth wrote:Actually it is not. Check the sizing chart at the bottom. They just aren't being flash about it. :< (Unless the sizing chart is a global change)

Thunderthighs originally said it was AA, not Anvil.

More woot.com deception! Where's Bezos? I want to yell at him.





THUNDERTHIGHS: My screw-up. I posted before I checked. The yellow box is on the main page now.

Today's shirt (Too Many Cooks) is being printed on ANVIL.

maybe i'm being too generous with the benifit of the doubt here, but i have to wonder if money really is the only reason for the change. there are some things in the initial write-up that could be veiled references to problems they've been having with AA, and there have been an increase of complaints recently by people who received shirts that were defective or otherwise not up to their quality expectations. then again, if they've been testing other blanks out for years, maybe that's not the issue. i know that woot doesn't want to alienate AA, since they intend to keep using them for long-sleeve blanks, but it seems to me that if the switch is predicated by something other than the price of blanks, they need to find a delicate way to say so. that would have to at least decrease some of the anger here.

i am dissappointed to see that the new blanks will not be american made. i'm not going to even try to pretend that i don't buy a lot of imported goods, because frankly american made can be very difficult to find and quite expensive. i can say that knowing woot shirts were american made did make it that much more appealing to pull the trigger. i do find it slightly easier to swallow imported shirts knowing that at least they're being made under better working conditions than many products that are produced overseas by american companies.

i do think that this switch to blanks which are less expensive (even if that's not the reason for it) following so close on the heels of the price increase does seem rather shady. if this has been in the works for some time, surely someone should have thought how that would look and adjusted the timing of one or the other.

there have been a number of people voicing concerns regarding fit based on the decreased length. this for me is not an issue as i am rather short. i am wondering instead if the slight increase in the weight of the shirts will decrease the wonderful stretch and movement that i love about the AA blanks. being a women who will not fit in the women's shirts no matter who supplies them, that stretch is essential in me having enough room for things that aren't taken into consideration when designing men's shirts.

i'm not going to say that i won't buy any more woot shirts, but i'm certainly going to wait long enough to see what others think of the new shirts before i shell out my money for one, and until i really, really love a design.

fluttersby8 wrote:
Also, I am not a chick, a broad or a dame. Nor am I a guy or a lad. I am, in point of fact, an otter.

But, you look like a narwhal on an otter's body?

nmpls wrote:And yet, it is.
I already don't dry my shirts to avoid shrinkage.
6'4" with a 30 in inseam, I need my shirt length. Post up your measurements before you tell us our concern is groundless.

Indeed. Cold wash, hanger dry

/6'2, 31

llandar wrote:I was talking about the female shirts. The length difference is the same as the men's. The big difference is in the chest.

According to the 2 measurements posted in the women's size thread the women's anvil is actually longer by less than 1/2 an inch.

NVM, on closer look only the XL is longer, the others vary.

A shirt with a fox. I guess I'll buy one and see how I like these foreign things. But honestly, unless you guys start paying the artists $1200-$1500 per design (and $3 per reckoning sale) rather than the $1000 per design to ALSO keep up with inflation, I really feel cheated over the switch to $12 combined with $2-3 cheaper shirts.

You rely not only on your customers to keep your business up but also on designers to supply you with quality work. What was $1000 4 years ago is worth depressingly less these days.

tsero4 wrote:

True Story

Thank you! I was waiting for a db woot meme to pop up! Now, let's see if I can find a glittery, crying eagle to talk about America...

llandar wrote: A lot of rude and snarky things.

Generally we the community appreciate the writer's brand of humor and snarkiness. This is not the place for it. We have valid concerns and questions that aren't being addressed. Being rude to us while representing the company that many feel misled us is ill advised.

I understand you feel that your friends are being attacked. I feel like my wallet and intelligence are being attacked. Should I be completely rude in my comments? No. Your own staff asked us to play nice - how about we all follow that guideline, you set the example for how this conversation goes.

I'll play the devil's advocate here and mention that the only party Woot!/Amazon is beholden to is their shareholders. Don't like their choice of supplier or cost, then buy your shirts elsewhere. If the profits drop, they'll likely switch back on one or both of these issues. I, for one, will be really interested to see how my Too Many Cooks turns out. ;)

Until today, I didn't bother to really look at my shirts and who made them. It turns out my work shirts are made by Anvil and my black shirts tend to fade very fast, when compared to my older Woot shirts.

I will say that my job also praised the new Woman sizes that were now available when they switched providers. I frankly didn't care because I had no choice in the matter, and well I'm a guy so new woman sizes didn't really help me.

I truly hope that these shirts hold up better than the shirts I'm using currently at my work, as I am disappointed in the quality of both the material and their ability to hold their print.

Im in the same boat as a lot of users. my woot shirt are never dried in a dryer. the AA 3xl length was pushing it as it was. If the anvil shirts are just as good why are they shorter? Is there a possiblilty of getting 4xl shirts? A 4xl would allow a larger(pardon the pun) group of consumers to buy shirts and give up taller and rounder folks that added length to cover up things people dont want to see.

llandar wrote:
I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked.

Dear llandar and staff,

Please consider that we customers have been so emphatic over our disappointment because we, too, care about your friends. We appreciate shirt.woot as an American company providing an American (in terms of manufacture as well as culture) product. The choice between two American companies (Woot and AA) is not one we want to make.

Consider also that you may have more power to enact change than you may think. Your "friends" must have some influence. Amazon can be responsive to customer preference, and you may be the voice who informs them, directly or indirectly.

Thank you for your consideration,
Dan

I do not recall if I saw anybody ask this question: If a main reason for the $2 increase and the move toward Anvil blanks is profit/margins, has the idea of charging for shipping ever entered the conversation?

I am sure that shirt.woot sends out a staggering amount of packages and gets a good break on each one, but somebody has to eat that cost. Could the introduction of paying for shipping have stopped the $2 price increase and maybe kept AA as the blank supplier?

I live in Wisconsin and i am fairly positive that i cannot run down to Texas for $5. To me, paying for shipping would have been worth it if it kept everything the way it was...

Thank You for your time.

ProfHotpants wrote:I will work on changing the FAQ tomorrow morning.

I see you(or another WOOT staff) updated the FAQ under design & production, just pointing out a few other sections...

Under ordering & shipping... "Yes, we do pay more to have Woot Tees made in the USA without sweatshop labor."

in the sizing chart "Features
Fiber Content:4.3 oz 100% Combed Ringspun Cotton
Place of Origin:USA"

Sad to see the shirts go overseas, but will have to atleast try out the new shirts.

Anvil shirts are of inferior quality and are not made in the USA. I'm done checking the daily woot/shirt.woot, as I won't be buying any longer.

raccoonbacon wrote:I do not recall if I saw anybody ask this question: If a main reason for the $2 increase and the move toward Anvil blanks is profit/margins, has the idea of charging for shipping ever entered the conversation?

I am sure that shirt.woot sends out a staggering amount of packages and gets a good break on each one, but somebody has to eat that cost. Could the introduction of paying for shipping have stopped the $2 price increase and maybe kept AA as the blank supplier?

I live in Wisconsin and i am fairly positive that i cannot run down to Texas for $5. To me, paying for shipping would have been worth it if it kept everything the way it was...

Thank You for your time.

I fail to see the point. So you're saying that if they had kept the price at $10, but started charging $2 shipping, that would have been preferable to 'raising' the price to $12 with free shipping?

Or are you saying that you'd pay and ADDITIONAL $2 (for a total of $14 shipped) just to keep AA blanks?

The former, to me, is just silly - it's the same dang take-home price.

And the latter - well let's just say I wouldn't buy any shirts at $14.

After reading this post and "Let's Talk Lady Sizes" I was saddened by losing the AA shirts I've grown to love. The women sizes really fit well all around and that is what made instinct buys so great. With the Anvil sizes, I will have to drop 2 sizes and 1.5" in length (which was already a bit short and I'm only 5'3")

Even with the change I decided to buy todays shirt just because Spirtgreen's design rocks but also as a test. This could be one of many more shirts I buy or it could be the last.

The sad part about this whole roll of the dice, is that if they don't work out, it could affect the livelihood of many of your self-representing artists. The people who are supplying you with the quality designs that have so many people coming back each day.

I along with pretty much everyone in this community want answers about the price increase and now outsourcing. It frustrates us all that these questions are not being answered while trivial questions are responded to quickly. Don't blame the staffers and mods though. The way it works in almost every big company these people are told to ignore certain topics and with some companies they can lose their jobs. I don't believe woot staff's jobs are being threatened, but I am sure that if they were not told to ignore these question that they would respond.
I want to boycott when companies lose sight of their customer base. Right now it appears that woot has made that transition that it seems all companies go through when they finally make it big, They see they are no longer the small outfit they once were and shouldn't as well as don't need to run on such small profit margins. Some companies succeed, some fail and return to how they were operating, and some times the transition to ignore your customers in order to increase profit margins completely ruins a company.
I don't want woot to go away, but I don't want them losing sight of the desires of their loyal customer base.
It may not seem sudden to the staffers who have been test shirts for years, but to the customers this was as sudden as it comes, especially since the majority of us felt the $2 increase was to keep everything the way it was. No mod, staff member, or higher gave any correction to the notion that things would stay the same with the price increase. This is probably why the outcry is so intense. If we cared so much about outsourcing then every single one of our habits would change. A lot of the foods we eat, clothing we wear, electronics we buy, dishes we eat on, etc. are produced in other countries. We would like more jobs to stay in America, but I think the biggest problem is the deception and lack of communication from the staff.
Is it worth it to make a few extra dollars to lose customers and tarnish your image with the ones who stay?

tsfisch wrote:I fail to see the point. So you're saying that if they had kept the price at $10, but started charging $2 shipping, that would have been preferable to 'raising' the price to $12 with free shipping?

Or are you saying that you'd pay and ADDITIONAL $2 (for a total of $14 shipped) just to keep AA blanks?

The former, to me, is just silly - it's the same dang take-home price.

And the latter - well let's just say I wouldn't buy any shirts at $14.

My post was meant to point out another possible solution to keep things the way they were.

Yes, the price WE pay would be the same but then shirt.woot would have a little more room for their margins because they wouldn't have to pay to get the item to us. All in the hopes that they could have stayed with AA.

It was nothing more than a question/solution that I hoped was raised when the powers that be were thinking in what direction they wanted to take things.

Getting in on this at the end of the discussion, I also have NEVER EVER dried my woot shirts in the dryer.

To many of my older Womens XL shirts shrunk and were no longer wearable (nor appropriate for people who are not exactly underweight for their body size), and I still buy the Mens L shirts and don't dry them either in the dryer. All Woot shirts I've had must be hung to dry, otherwise I've suffered horrible issues with no longer being able to use them.

My SO used the old 3XL shirts and the length was good, sad that they are shorter now, his shirts also suffered bad shrinking and must also be hung to dry.

I ordered a shirt from woot.com for the first time a couple of days ago and was thrilled the shirts came from American Apparel. The only place I regularly buy clothes from is American Apparel.

I'm such a huge fan, I have actually visited their factory in LA several times. Did you know the pay for a seamstress there starts at $12/hour? How much are the people in some foreign country getting paid to make your imported shirts?

I just bought my first shirt (Nyan's Dream), and I am sad to say I will not buy another. I have had experience with Anvil shirts in the past and I know for a fact they are not as high quality as American Apparel's. The cotton isn't as good, so the print doesn't stay as nice looking. The shirts are stiffer and the fit is blockier. All that to save a measly $2?

llandar wrote:...If we tried to notify you guys every time something might happen or we were thinking about some stuff, the signal to noise ratio would degrade to the point where you'd hate us for always posting "maybes."...

Working in the Electronic Warfare community, this is hilarious... (RADARs for your nonEW folks)

llandar wrote:
I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked.

I think people are really disappointed at Woot as a company not at an individual or a team.

You are the one trying to put a face to it. When you are here in this forum, you represent the company and that includes your friends.

raccoonbacon wrote:My post was meant to point out another possible solution to keep things the way they were.

Yes, the price WE pay would be the same but then shirt.woot would have a little more room for their margins because they wouldn't have to pay to get the item to us. All in the hopes that they could have stayed with AA.

It was nothing more than a question/solution that I hoped was raised when the powers that be were thinking in what direction they wanted to take things.

But it's the same thing. If you want, pretend the price is still $10, and they charge $2 for shipping. I don't mean to be snarky, but you're talking semantics, not economics.

patrickbkc wrote:I see you(or another WOOT staff) updated the FAQ under design & production, just pointing out a few other sections...

Under ordering & shipping... "Yes, we do pay more to have Woot Tees made in the USA without sweatshop labor."

in the sizing chart "Features
Fiber Content:4.3 oz 100% Combed Ringspun Cotton
Place of Origin:USA"

Sad to see the shirts go overseas, but will have to atleast try out the new shirts.

Thank you for the catch. I'll update these today.

llandar wrote:A lot of rude and snarky things.

thumperchick wrote:Generally we the community appreciate the writer's brand of humor and snarkiness. This is not the place for it.

This. I've been supportive of Woot and annoyed with the assault on it in this thread... and I still kinda want llandar's head on a platter for her comments here. The skillset for writing about products is different from that needed to deal with the public on a forum; if llandar doesn't have the latter skills, she shouldn't be posting here. She's only making things worse.

tsfisch wrote:But it's the same thing. If you want, pretend the price is still $10, and they charge $2 for shipping. I don't mean to be snarky, but you're talking semantics, not economics.

If paying for shipping meant keeping things the was they were, I would have been all for it. We (the shirt.woot community) did not know that the shirt stock that we have come to know and love was being replaced by a substitute.

The point I have been trying to make is that, if paying for shipping would have taken that burden off of Shirt.woot and placed it on to us, would we still be able to have shirts printed on AA blanks? Would have that been enough to derail the change in vendors? I don't know, and don't pretend to know.

I was just asking a question...

Just so we are clear, I am also not just talking about when the shirt is $10 on the first day, i am talking having to pay shipping whenever an order is placed.

chennai8 wrote:I think people are really disappointed at Woot as a company not at an individual or a team.

I see your point. I had a hard time differentiating that because, for me, "Woot" means the people right around the corner from my desk.

Looks like shirt.woot is off my list. 6'3" with a long torso, 3/8 of an inch will make my shirt.woot a belly shirt.. and even I don't want to see that. Furthermore, who declares a price increase to justify a cheaper crappier product.

Goodbye shirt.woot, this time you really do disappoint. Every shirt.woot day from this moment forward has officially been declared a Bag-O-Crap day.

I will miss you!

Shmuel510 wrote:This. I've been supportive of Woot and annoyed with the assault on it in this thread... and I still kinda want llandar's head on a platter for her comments here. The skillset for writing about products is different from that needed to deal with the public on a forum; if llandar doesn't have the latter skills, she shouldn't be posting here. She's only making things worse.

Heh, I do believe llandar is a 'he'.

raccoonbacon wrote:Just so we are clear, I am also not just talking about when the shirt is $10 on the first day, i am talking having to pay shipping whenever an order is placed.

OK, that helps clear things up.

I'm having a hard time really worrying about a company that recklessly spent money on social agendas while driving themselves into bankruptcy several times over. I'm of the (perhaps mistaken) opinion that a company should worry about their own success first, and issues such as immigration and g a y marriage second. Once they're good at the former, then *maybe* they can start spending money on the latter- although like I said earlier I'd much prefer to support the causes I care about directly.

profbrendan wrote:Heh, I do believe llandar is a 'he'.

Yes, but I've been typing in my feminine voice.

Shmuel510 wrote:This. I've been supportive of Woot and annoyed with the assault on it in this thread... and I still kinda want llandar's head on a platter for her comments here. The skillset for writing about products is different from that needed to deal with the public on a forum; if llandar doesn't have the latter skills, she shouldn't be posting here. She's only making things worse.

Mea culpa. I am easily riled and was picked on as a child, so I tend to lash out with words. I will do my best to dial down the sarcasm when in the forums here.

llandar wrote:Mea culpa. I am easily riled and was picked on as a child, so I tend to lash out with words. I will do my best to dial down the sarcasm when in the forums here.

Thanks. And my sincere apologies for using the wrong pronoun! (I made a faulty inference from the reference to you in the "Let's Talk Lady Sizes" blog post.)

I've had my share or marketing classes. I am also disappointed in the bitter reality in how (american) companies think. So let me spell it out (or at least MY view - take it or leave it) for those who think companies listen/should listen to their customers: they listen to the dollar. Shirt.Woot (Amazon) is in to make money - they don't care if the artist gets appreciated or if you feel happy you are buying american. At this point Woot staff are probably not even the one to blame, because it is Amazon that pulls the big strings, so whatever comments you might receive here from them will be muffled by the fact that they are not the ultimate decision makers anymore and have to look out for THEIR jobs, regardless if they agree or disagree. Amazon may be fully aware that their new blanks are cheaper for a reason, that they will generate discontent, that upping the price while lowering their cost won't fly by a lot of users, but the sad fact is that from their point of view it is just numbers. Even if - VERY CONSERVATIVELY! - they increased their profit margins by 100% (two-fold), it still means they can get by if half of wooters stop buying shirts, and still make the same PROFIT! In reality a 5$ increase in profits (2$ price hike, 3$ saved from cost) is probably several times more than what it used to be. So what I am saying, business-wise they can afford to loose A LOT more people and still make more money than before! Very sad, but true.

It's too bad that even companies that try to adhere to the concept that a company is not there just to make money, all get carried away with the flow nowadays by the big guys and shareholders that only look for the buck...

I'll wait to see what the consensus is on the new shirts before I write off Woot! altogether. Raising the price to outsource to a questionable quality product does not sit well with me.

EDIT:
Also might want to change the FAQ under Ordering and Shipping where it says, "Yes, we do pay more to have Woot Tees made in the USA without sweatshop labor."