Shirt.Woot

I was really okay with spending $2 more a shirt, but this ruins it! Damnit guys! This really makes me angry, I used to talk up shirt.woot to all my friends and peers. You've gone and thrown it all away. I will just buy blank shirts from AA from now on. Goodbye woot.shirt, it was fun while it lasted.

Sincerely,
James Dunham

CowboyDann wrote:There was a big banner at the end of the write-up that let us know the Men's shirts would be printed on the new woot shirts. It was there since the very beginning of the offer. There were plenty of people that were talking about it in the forums.

I completely understand the anger, but I don't understand why this came as a big surprise. You got exactly what was advertised.

No matter what anyone says, putting anything so far down the page that you have to scroll to see it is intentionally hiding it.

They were trying (and still are, given that they have kept that placement) to keep the change as quiet as possible.

In my opinion, Woot has been all around shady about their recent changes.

I'm sure this horse is as beaten-to-death as can be, but Anvil shirts are awful. This is on par with the "improvements" Netflix made last year. (Someone else may have already made a similar comparison, but I'm too upset about this to read the whole thread...)

Anvil shirts aren't as soft, don't fit as nicely through the arms, and generally don't have good sizing reliability. The shirts Shirt.Woot has been using were a big reason for the number of shirts I've gotten so many (well, "only" 24), as before I'd discovered them I'd been buying from other shirt-a-day vendors (who also had a more artistic bias). I guess it may be time to go back.



Please, Woot, switch back.

ThunderThighs wrote:I'm also posting the blanks info in the discussion thread for every shirt until the transition is complete.

even for reckoning shirts?

I don't know why I keep bothering to reply here since everything I've said has been ignored, but if there's one thing that should be repeated it's regarding this:

ThunderThighs wrote:I'm also posting the blanks info in the discussion thread for every shirt until the transition is complete.

Posting in the discussions is great for those of us that frequent the forums. However, a box at the bottom of a write-up no matter how fancy and eye-catching is not helpful. That box needs to be either at the top of the write-up or there should be a note near the available sizes/by the buy button.

American Apparel is an evil misogynistic company. Their owner/founder is a creepy Yakko, their advertising campaign is based on making the models look like sexualized teenagers, and the women's sizes make it clear that they believe no one should be above a size 8. I wear a 2-4, a small should fit me easily, and a woman who is an 8 shouldn't have to wear an XL.

I work merch for a band who used AA shirts for a long time and would frequently lose sales because nobody above a size 8 could wear a woman's shirt, and a lot of women were offended by the idea that they should all look like pubescent girls. They also ended up switching to a company from Honduras, one that uses organic cotton and a co-op set up, so the workers get a share in the profits.

Being made in America does not make for a moral company.

I am very happy about this change and it will make me likely to buy shirts on s more regular basis.

/end rant.

dominanefret wrote:... /end rant.

American Apparel and Anvil: A comparison

Narfcake wrote:American Apparel and Anvil: A comparison

Thank you for linking that, I will admit that I read through about ten pages before my eyes began to cross because of people saying the same things over and over again.

I actually just checked the shirts that the band I worked for switched to, and they are made in Peru, not Honduras, so I was mistaken there.

You have a lot of really good points that I totally agree with, but I am still very conflicted. I think that after reading that I am probably uncomfortable enough with both companies that I'd prefer it if they found a completely different supplier.

Over the past six or seven years I have read a number of articles about Dov Charney having sex with factory workers and models, about them giving him blow jobs in his office, "because that's how easy going things are, everyone likes each other and the girls are modern sexually liberated women who are free to make their own choices, bla bla bla..." Supposedly these girls are perfectly happy to drop trau for their boss, but it is NEVER okay for anyone in that kind of position of power to do anything like that.

Then we have this:
http://andjuniorshakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/aa.jpg

And this:
Kinda NSFW
{{Volmod edit: Yep, definitely NSFW. I made the first one a link, too, since it's also rather NSFW.}}

Combined with the whole "women should all be a size 8 or thinner and we aren't going to supply any clothing for anyone larger" I end up feeling really
squicky any time I end up purchasing anything from them.

Yes, I try to buy American whenever I can. Probably 3/4 of my clothing is American made, something that takes a lot of effort. I still go out of my way to avoid American Apparel, and shirt.woot is the only exception I have made to that rule in a long time. I think sexism and exploiting women is not something that can be ignored.

dominanefret wrote:

Oh, would you look at what I found... Royal Apparel

Alright, I'm going to say that I'll probably still buy Woot shirts, but I'd *really* like a tall version. The fit around the chest with the old medium shirts is great, and if it stays the same I'm cool. If the shirts end up shrinking to be shorter though it's going to be iffy. The old mediums were *just* long enough for me. If I buy a large shirt they're too baggy for me and I don't like it.

Here's a request for a Tall size that no one else might have brought up yet:

I have a license to and do carry a concealed firearm. If I have to reach above my head for something in public, I already have to be pretty careful in the old sizes. If the new ones end up any shorter I'm going to start having problems.

What say you my fellow Wootians and Woot Staff?

paaiyan wrote:...
I have a license to and do carry a concealed firearm. If I have to reach above my head for something in public, I already have to be pretty careful in the old sizes. If the new ones end up any shorter I'm going to start having problems.
What say you my fellow Wootians and Woot Staff?

I was actually just complaining about the same thing. But my older shirts have shrank to were if I get something off the top shelf, I get weird looks from the old ladies at the grocery store. So while I'm not liking non-USA shirts, I'll wait and see how this works out.

So, I decided to catch up on this thread after a few days. I found a very interesting read that was linked a page or three back and wanted to share it with everyone.

For those folks who think Anvil is a better company than AA, this is something you should read.

Thank you for all your research, mrwednesday!

mrwednesday wrote:I wanted to post this on its own because the main changeover thread really has about 4 consecutive discussions going on and it isn't really conducive to any kind of real discourse. I'll try to keep things short, but it's a complex issue so bear with me. Skip to the bottom if you want the short version.
(Long quote)

Woot sent me one of the new blanks and though I was late getting to it I thought I'd share my opinion.

As many people have already reported and Woot has always claimed the fabric is indeed very similar to the old AA shirts. It's not the same as my other crappier Anvil shirts. I'm pleased with that.

As a 6ft MXL I'm not really seeing much difference except for the slight shortness. But I feel for the smaller ladies and the size issues they are having now.

Narfcake wrote:They would've done it in the past if they wanted to already. Just like they could've offered W2XL too if they wanted to ... but they didn't.

The issue with the new blanks is that they're oversized now, so they really need a WXS instead. Otherwise, they're pretty much throwing out all the former WS and WM sales away, as the new WS is almost comparable to the former WL.

If it's cost prohibitive to offer an option, it won't be offered. If that cost decreases for some reason, for example, cheaper supply, then it is more than possible for the option to then be offered.

bluetuba wrote:Woot sent me one of the new blanks and though I was late getting to it I thought I'd share my opinion.

As many people have already reported and Woot has always claimed the fabric is indeed very similar to the old AA shirts. It's not the same as my other crappier Anvil shirts. I'm pleased with that.

As a 6ft MXL I'm not really seeing much difference except for the slight shortness. But I feel for the smaller ladies and the size issues they are having now.

They didn't give me a free shirt.
But I have my first print and the most noticeable is that the neck hole is quite a bit bigger.

Thanks for hiding the notice at the bottom of the page Woot.

I bought the 1981 shirt a few days ago without knowing it would not be printed on AA and it will probably be my last shirt.woot purchase.

Didn't you VERY recently boost the price to increase profit margins on the AA shirts? Now you're switching to CHEAPER shirts? I'm going to assume you won't be reverting the price change. For shame, woot.

I just heard about this today.

Wow. Just wow. I never thought this day would come. This is shaping up to be a really disappointing month.

A few words about my history with shirt.woot:

Death Stare was the very first piece of clothing I bought online. What prompted me to buy it was actually another shirt which I got for free from a web startup called SeeqPod. They gave me a free American Apparel shirt with a very nice silkscreened design for writing in and suggesting a new feature.

Before I got this free shirt, I was quite adverse to the idea of buying T-Shirts online. They seemed cheaply made, no one was upfront about which manufacturer made the shirts, and I didn't look good in any of them anyway. Then I found out that Woot only sold American Apparel shirts. I knew I would look good in the shirt, because I already had one of the exact same cut. So I bought the shirt.

And then I bought another one, and another one. 67 shirts and over $700 later, here we are. Just as a note, $700 is much, much more money than I have ever spent on clothing anywhere else. I don't have a lot of money and I couldn't care less about my pants as long as they are comfortable, and the same was true about shirts until I found shirt.woot.

I am a stocky guy with a bit of a gut. My brother is tall and skinny. American Apparel T-shirts are the only ones that we look even marginally presentable in. Good thing I have already bought 67 of these, or I would be really bummed out.

You can say 3/8 of an inch isn't that big of a deal until you're blue in the face, but that won't make it true. And I have heard from many people who I respect in these forums that the fit is entirely different. Now your blanks are just like every other crappy, poorly fitting shirt at Target. Great way to increase those profit margins while really keeping that unique Woot differentiation. Real smart move. In all seriousness though, while I like the unique designs here at shirt.woot, what kept me coming back was the high quality of the shirt itself.

I used to sing your praises to everyone who complimented my shirts, which I wore every day for two and a half years. No more. I will probably lie and say I don't know where I got the shirt, just to avoid the entire explanation. You have officially lost me as an evangelist and a customer with this unfortunate decision.

$10 was a great price. I had absolutely no problem with the $12 new shirts- I still felt like they were a good deal and was going to continue buying at the same rate. In fact, I appreciated Woot for respecting me as a consumer and being up-front about the costs of inflation, rather than sneakily changing to a different supplier. Now it turns out that you were really planning to do both all along.

Bring back American Apparel as a supplier. Charge me $18 first day, and $20 for day-olds. I WILL PAY IT. At least offer me the choice.

Or don't, and you can count on losing me as a customer forever from the Woot.com family of sites. The only reason I check woot.com, sellout.woot, home.woot, kids.woot, and wine.woot daily is because I am looking at the shirts and I think "why not click over and see if there's anything good". I really and truly do not care enough to go there on my own.

Make sure you send out a mass email if you decide to bring the American Apparel shirts back. I will have no other way of knowing since I will no longer be frequenting any of the Woot sites.

I've purchased my last shirt.woot shirt today, making sure that it was on the AA blank.

Send out a mass email if you go back to the AA blanks. Woot will no longer be on my homepage.

Another day, another company outsourcing jobs and lowering total domestic product below the threshold that keeps me a customer. It's a disappointing goodbye.

Farewell.

I would note that fit and feel wise, the only difference I've noticed in the anvil shirts is the length and the neck hole size.
The neck hole size is fine now, but I worry about stretch a bit.
The length is kind of an issue, but I actually think it is less than 3/8in laying a new anvil and an AA next to each other.

Only time will tell how it stands up though.

unsweetener wrote:As a lady, I look forward to seeing if the the Anvil tees fit better than the AA ones. I seriously dislike the AA ones.

And honestly, commitment to fair labor practices in middle-income countries is really good for the people there. I get that not being made in the USA is a dealbreaker for some people, but AA isn't going to sink or swim by Woot's purchases, and if they do, it's because they have a terrible business model.

Little late to the game- but how about giving our people a fair shake first? I understand about the desire to help outside our borders but let's take care of Americans first./end political rant

Dear John, (Shirt.woot.com)
I regret to inform you that I must sever our relationship. While our time spent together has been great, even magical, it appears that we are forever heading down seperate paths. Your love of foreign destinations has taken you to places that I care not to see. My love of my country and those who manufacture here has kept me firmly rooted. I will forever treasure our time playing with the cat, or sneaking around in the dark like we were ninjas, but even the Doctor agrees. Your coy looks won't work anymore. But don't worry you will be just fine without me.
Bon Voyage John (shirt.woot.com)
With regret,
BCK9900

Has anyone else noticed this...

The new Anvil blanks are made in Honduras, but if Honduran nationals decide to support "Made in Honduras" by buying a Woot shirt, they can't. Woot doesn't offer Honduras as an international shipping option.

trekmiss wrote:Has anyone else noticed this...

The new Anvil blanks are made in Honduras, but if Honduran nationals decide to support "Made in Honduras" by buying a Woot shirt, they can't. Woot doesn't offer Honduras as an international shipping option.

Well isn't that interesting??

I looked at the labels of my favorite (non-Woot) T-shirts and they are made in Virginia (USA) by Jensen. I have some from 20 years ago and they still wash, wear, look, and feel just as good as they did when I bought them. I checked their website and a single blank costs less than $8.00, so I'm sure in volume Woot could have gotten them for much less. And they are really, really great shirts. Woot, and its customers, are missing out.

caramelarrow wrote:Well isn't that interesting??

I looked at the labels of my favorite (non-Woot) T-shirts and they are made in Virginia (USA) by Jensen. I have some from 20 years ago and they still wash, wear, look, and feel just as good as they did when I bought them. I checked their website and a single blank costs less than $8.00, so I'm sure in volume Woot could have gotten them for much less. And they are really, really great shirts. Woot, and its customers, are missing out.

I second. Bring the shirts back to the USA.

lozerette wrote:No matter what anyone says, putting anything so far down the page that you have to scroll to see it is intentionally hiding it.

No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

llandar wrote:No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

Couldn't you include a banner on the shirt image that mentions it? I remember a banner in the corner that announced the kid's sizes. Something like that alerts to new sizes would be helpful.

llandar wrote:No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

So you couldn't have put it, say, where the mathcathalon promotion currently is? Get real.

llandar wrote:No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

It could be at the beginning of the write-up. It could be in the place of the Mathcathalon banner. It could be a overlay notification using CSS. It could be a fixed CSS banner.

There's actually plenty of options...

ThunderThighs wrote:
This transition period is hard on all of us and we thank you for your patience during this time.

I'm not sure how much of a ridiculous pain this would be, but how about turning the "available sizes" section above the "I Want One" button into hyperlinks to the associated sizing chart? I know that's not your job exactly - but do you think it's a viable solution?

Though if you don't know to look for it, I guess that wouldn't solve the perception that woot is hiding the info...

ThunderThighs wrote:I think the problem with that is we need to be able to update these sales quickly as more shirt selections move to Anvil. So a shirt that starts out as Mens only in Anvil will ultimately have all shirts on Anvil if it lives in the Reckoning long enough.

Having to change the art each time would use up a lot of resources. The gold box is already a manual process although the Sizing Chart itself is now more automated.

Ultimately, all the gold boxes will go away once we've been on Anvil for a while. So you can see it's rather fluid at the moment and I recognize that is hard as a consumer.

I'm posting in each sale about the shirt blanks. And double checking the sizing chart is a good idea too.

This transition period is hard on all of us and we thank you for your patience during this time.

I appreciate Thunder Thighs continued dedication to providing positive and polite replies.

ThunderThighs wrote:I think the problem with that is we need to be able to update these sales quickly as more shirt selections move to Anvil. So a shirt that starts out as Mens only in Anvil will ultimately have all shirts on Anvil if it lives in the Reckoning long enough.

Having to change the art each time would use up a lot of resources. The gold box is already a manual process although the Sizing Chart itself is now more automated.

Ultimately, all the gold boxes will go away once we've been on Anvil for a while. So you can see it's rather fluid at the moment and I recognize that is hard as a consumer.

I'm posting in each sale about the shirt blanks. And double checking the sizing chart is a good idea too.

This transition period is hard on all of us and we thank you for your patience during this time.

I think people understand that the transition is making a lot of work and that properly notifying the consumer would require a lot of coding and extra changes. That being said it's woot's job to do that. This should be hard on woot not the customer.

It's often said that woot is a business and it has to do unpopular things for their bottom line and what not. It goes both ways. Woot is still a business and they need to take responsibility for the difficulties their choices have created.

ThunderThighs wrote:I think the problem with that is we need to be able to update these sales quickly as more shirt selections move to Anvil. So a shirt that starts out as Mens only in Anvil will ultimately have all shirts on Anvil if it lives in the Reckoning long enough.

Having to change the art each time would use up a lot of resources. The gold box is already a manual process although the Sizing Chart itself is now more automated.

Ultimately, all the gold boxes will go away once we've been on Anvil for a while. So you can see it's rather fluid at the moment and I recognize that is hard as a consumer.

I'm posting in each sale about the shirt blanks. And double checking the sizing chart is a good idea too.

This transition period is hard on all of us and we thank you for your patience during this time.

I thank you for your response, TThighs. But as diphallus and 4kaos point out there are quite a few options for where a notification could be put. You mention how the pages will need to change as more shirts move to the Anvil blanks and I understand this frustration, but if having to manually change things is an issue because of the differences, why isn't there just a banner somewhere noting the new blanks and alerting people to check the size charts? That could be a static thing for every page and placed in a location that is far more noticeable.

llandar wrote:No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

Sounds like you guys need to hire a web developer...

No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

This is so full of complete BS it's ridiculous.

Finally! Im a bit late with this pic, but here goes!

This is me in the new Anvil WS and WM. Now, Im a bit different from most who have posted so far in that Im a small girl, but I have big tatas and big ol' arms. (thank you, family genetics) The new WM isnt too bad, in fact I rather like that it's more spacious for my bowbs. But, I kind of dont like how unflattering the bottom area is. It kind of 'tents out' down there. Not a huge fan of the longer sleeves either, as it makes the shirt a bit less girly.



Eh, it could be worse. I had issues with the AA tees as well, so it's not a huge step down from that style.

I've read through the majority of these pages and there's a few points that have become clear to me.

1) I think people are basing their negative opinions on lesser quality anvil shirts, I've had some myself that were nothing short of trash but I'd be willing to try

2) Woot's handling of the issue is just crap. The placement of the banner is total BS and their rational is insulting. It reeks of deception. I, and many people I know, rarely read the full description, you've been coming here for 2 years - you look at the shirt and just buy. I only saw it because I happen to be scrolling down to look at the other woot sites. Place it at the top and stop making excuses.

3) Doing all of this after jacking the price up 20% is also totally insaney.

I happily accepted the price increase. I would have accepted a change in blanks. What I won't tolerate is a price increase followed by a less than clearly stated change to a cheaper supplier. That mixed with the BS replies and excuses about the action and its execution.

I'll order some AA blanks and/or older shirts but once the change to Anvil is complete I'm done baring some changes. And I'll encourage others to do the same and vote with their wallets.

Bad move shirt.woot, bad move.