Shirt.Woot

Sigh :/ The comment about short memories is really hitting home. When I first joined I did look into all of the misdeeds and speculations associated with Ramy and was disgusted. Slowly, though, without constant reminders those things just kind of faded out of memory. Needless to say, that won't happen again. Sad day. I sure hopes he gets burned one of these times.

I even reported his Art Nouveau In Darkness phoenix design for idea theft in relation to this artist but as we can all see, it still got an HM in which woot even JOKED "Eventually you reach the point where you don't even read the Derby theme before you submit stuff."

So... I honestly doubt anything will be done, considering his crap design this week is still available for voting.

BootsBoots wrote:
I actually have had nothing against Ramy in the past. You can scour the forums and see that I've never really said anything about him. I thought I even had kind of a good relationship with him.

You even did some collab together, if I remember correctly.
So is it more painful to get stabbed in the back by someone you used to work with ?

Wow. Yes. Lot of haters out there. Three pages of comments. If I were Ramy, I'd be pleased folks couldn't resist talking about me. But all the speculation and certitude with no real fact-finding make me nervous of the day any of you get called for jury duty. Ya-ikes, America. Look out!

krodo wrote:Wow. Yes. Lot of haters out there. Three pages of comments. If I were Ramy, I'd be pleased folks couldn't resist talking about me. But all the speculation and certitude with no real fact-finding make me nervous of the day any of you get called for jury duty. Ya-ikes, America. Look out!

tjschaeffer wrote:

krodo wrote:Wow. Yes. Lot of haters out there. Three pages of comments. If I were Ramy, I'd be pleased folks couldn't resist talking about me. But all the speculation and certitude with no real fact-finding make me nervous of the day any of you get called for jury duty. Ya-ikes, America. Look out!

"speculation and certitude with no real fact-finding"

You mean like all the links in this thread of prior works with similar art, or text or concept? These are facts. They may not be conclusive in your mind, but they are facts, nonetheless.

-- You keep using the word "Fact". I do not think it means what you think it means. --

krodo wrote:Wow. Yes. Lot of haters out there. Three pages of comments. If I were Ramy, I'd be pleased folks couldn't resist talking about me. But all the speculation and certitude with no real fact-finding make me nervous of the day any of you get called for jury duty. Ya-ikes, America. Look out!

Why can't my palm hold all this face?

tarmawolf wrote:I even reported his Art Nouveau In Darkness phoenix design for idea theft in relation to this artist but as we can all see, it still got an HM in which woot even JOKED "Eventually you reach the point where you don't even read the Derby theme before you submit stuff."

good catch. looks like pretty direct plagiarism of someone else's design

krodo wrote:Wow. Yes. Lot of haters out there. Three pages of comments. If I were Ramy, I'd be pleased folks couldn't resist talking about me. But all the speculation and certitude with no real fact-finding make me nervous of the day any of you get called for jury duty. Ya-ikes, America. Look out!

Did you actually read the three pages? Pre-existing similarities do seem to crop up for his designs.

It's really the onion shirt that did it for me. Unless there is a reality out there where there are only three types veggies, I can't really believe it was a coincidence. He used the same interacting vegetables. Out of all the possibilities, he came up with broccoli and tomato. That's just a little too alike for me.

loridi wrote:Did you actually read the three pages? Pre-existing similarities do seem to crop up for his designs.

It's really the onion shirt that did it for me. Unless there is a reality out there where there are only three types veggies, I can't really believe it was a coincidence. He used the same interacting vegetables. Out of all the possibilities, he came up with broccoli and tomato. That's just a little too alike for me.

There's been plenty more

tarmawolf wrote:I even reported his Art Nouveau In Darkness phoenix design for idea theft in relation to this artist but as we can all see, it still got an HM in which woot even JOKED "Eventually you reach the point where you don't even read the Derby theme before you submit stuff."

Strangely enough, when I first saw his Art Nouveau entry (and knowing he's an Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim fan), I thought of this graphic from the game.


They're different enough that after I double-checked I didn't bother reporting it, but the inspiration is clear. It's not blatant like some others as it's more a reworked element in a mashup, but it stands out more in my mind after reading this thread.

Like Narfcake and CrazyDogLady, I'd been turning to Ramy's side the past several months after being a detractor. Some of his newer work was much improved over older stuff, and he had actively been supporting the community. But this is too much. Ramy, stop trying to ride the coattails of others with inferior work (that Dr. Who one is terrible). Do the right thing and pull those "inspired" designs down from your own site.

Where to begin- I was away this weekend and just saw this thread last night, and by that point there was a lot to read so I decided to wait until the morning.

Ok so I'm going to start with specific people I guess.

1. Boots- With the apathy design on my site, I started with the slogan on the bottom and the world saying meh, but felt it was missing something. The decision to add the apathy alliance part at the top was inspired by your design, and I absolutely regret not checking with you first. I just figured the concepts were different so it would be ok, and I absolutely didn't mean to offend you. I'll be emailing you later about this.

2. Fishbiscuit- I had never seen your design before when I designed my celebrate mediocrity shirt. I am not saying I wasn't around when it was posted in the derby, but I just didn't happen to see it. I also don't regularly follow other sites. If it makes you feel better, it doesn't sell at all. I don't know if you came up with the concept of celebrate mediocrity, but if you did, it has become extremely widespread because I've heard it many many times, so congrats. I was under the impression that the phrase has been around for a long while. I wanted to have a few slogan shirts since I could print them with fewer colors- clearly I'm not very good at coming up with them, and have decided to just stick to what I'm good at.

That said, I'm a little surprised that you are so offended, considering this "incident" that happened, in which case the designs were actually much more similar:





I didn't complain about it because I didn't care- people come up with similar shirts all the time, and it's difficult to keep track of every idea that has been done in every execution. Especially when you are designing very simple shirts, it is extremely easy to get into the territory of similar designs to *SOMETHING* that's out there. It happens, and it isn't theft.

(the same goes to you, odysseyroc)





In fact, I thought about doing a bring back pluto shirt for my site as well but then decided against it. I wonder if you would have jumped on it as a clear case of theft if I had.

3. The O-Riginal is still the most ridiculous thing I've ever dealt with in my entire life. Why are the vegetables the same? Because an onion is necessary in the shirt, and because broccoli and tomato are very easily recognizable, easy to draw, and there is a 6 color limit. If they were string beans, they would look stupid with faces, if they were eggplants, they would throw off the balance of the shirt, etc.- Secondly, the concepts are different. One of them is the onion having a bad odor and making the others sick to be near him. The other is the onion being a bully and the teacher scolding him. The idea of an onion smelling bad is not something walmazan came up with. Real onions smell bad. They exist in the real world. I really actually had never seen walmazan's shirt before when I designed mine. I get it, you will believe what you want to believe, and that is your right. Enjoy it.

What really shocks me about all of this is that people jump through hoops to defend other artists when they do designs that are absolutely painfully similar to things on other sites, and then jump on any occasion to find a vague similarity in this case to prove a point. This is not a situation of multiple strikes and you are out. This is a situation of looking extra hard to find coincidental examples to prove a fallacious point. The really amazing thing is that some people have actually deluded themselves into thinking that they make exceptions for other artists because they aren't repeat offenders. There is no repeat offenders situation going on here, it is multiple designs that look coincidentally similar. Go through any artist's previous designs, and scour the internet for similar designs. You will find plenty, and especially for simple shirts.

The simpler the designs, the more likely they exist elsewhere. Simple shirts are what I enjoy wearing, and I enjoy designing them. I used to post these types of designs on woot extremely often, and people would freak out about it, so I decided to expand into my own territory and make my own website where I could design whatever I wanted. That also opened the door for me to provide more variety on woot, and people have been (seemingly) pretty happy about it, considering my designs have been getting fewer complaints until this came up.

I have no interest in taking ideas from others, but I also am not carefully policing my designs to make sure that nothing remotely similar exists elsewhere. I don't see a point in doing so, if I want to design simple puns or cute shirts, I don't doubt that there is something similar out there, but I also don't think the executions of any of my shirts step on any toes or come too close to anything out there. This isn't a situation where there is one specific example that is similar and nobody has ever come up with the same concept before. Different people have independently arrived at the same obvious answer at different time points, and have executed it differently.

I'm 100% sure that the entirety of this post will do nothing to move any opinions. As always with these situations, people generally pick a side and assume that any defense from the other side is unfounded. That's fine, I just didn't want people to believe that I was hiding in a shell in the hopes that this would blow over. I stand behind my decisions and my work, and will gladly step out into the line of fire. So let me have it

ramyb wrote:

snip

I have no interest in taking ideas from others, but I also am not carefully policing my designs to make sure that nothing remotely similar exists elsewhere. I don't see a point in doing so, if I want to design simple puns or cute shirts, I don't doubt that there is something similar out there, but I also don't think the executions of any of my shirts step on any toes or come too close to anything out there.

snip

This is the bit that bothers me. Without giving credit to the original designers, without contacting them first...that's why it's a problem for me. I wasn't saying anything until the designers chimed in, since they're the ones hurt by this. That this is so similar to what has happened before is too much for me.

Thanks for clearing this whole mess up, Ramy. Go ahead and do whatever you want from now and I'll just chalk it all up to coincidence. Once again, we're all wrong, and you are above reproach.

Mavyn wrote:This is the bit that bothers me. Without giving credit to the original designers, without contacting them first...that's why it's a problem for me. I wasn't saying anything until the designers chimed in, since they're the ones hurt by this. That this is so similar to what has happened before is too much for me.

Perhaps I didn't word this clearly enough, so I'll clarify here and also edit my original post- I am not sure what you are looking for me to credit. For example, if you google search dr. who owl, you will find TONS of designs with owls dressed as doctor who. The reason there are so many is that it is an obvious pun that many people have thought of. I also happened to have thought of it, thought it would make a cute shirt, and I designed it. It is somewhat similar to many designs, but not particularly more similar to any design. It also wasn't inspired by any specific design. If I had posted it on woot, I am sure it would have been rejected, because the concept has been done elsewhere. But similar shirts exist is a concept employed by woot based on their business model. If you go to any other shirt site out there, the concept simply doesn't exist. Woot is trying to do something that no other site does, and I have the utmost respect for them in doing so, but I also like having the freedom to design whatever I like without that restriction. If I want to draw a cat sleeping on a shirt, am I expected to contact every person who has ever drawn a cat on a shirt to check if that's acceptable? If I designed it for woot, theoretically it would be rejected for similar shirts exist. I don't think it oversteps any boundaries whatsoever though, and there is no way you can say that one specific source came up with the idea of a cat sleeping. Especially in the world of pop culture designs, it is very easy to run into similar ideas. I can add many layers of meaning to overly complicate my ideas to make sure they don't exist elsewhere, but I prefer keeping things as simple as possible and drawing them in my style. I understand that some people only want to buy one of a kind designs. That's fine, you have woot for that. In fact, I also have a lot of designs on my site that don't have similar shirts anywhere else. Other people prefer to wear familiar ideas in a cute style. I am also catering to those people. I don't have to steal ideas to do so, but if you want to look for examples of similar shirts, you will find them because other people have drawn designs with the same idea in mind. That's all.

Some time ago I noticed the similarities between this and this.

At the time I noticed it I didn't say anything, because I only noticed on the day it had been reckoned and also because none of the older members commented either. I figured if no one else thought there was an issue, then maybe I was seeing something that wasn't there. But I always felt that the designs were too similar, from subject matter down to composition. Maybe I'm still imagining things, I don't know...

Edit: I just want to say that I started to write this comment before Ramy or anyone else replied. I had stepped away from the computer before posting, so I didn't see the replies. I wasn't trying to add fuel to the fire or say "well, yeah, take a look at this!" I only say this because my addition seemed ill timed and somewhat trollish, which was not the goal.

tjschaeffer wrote:Some time ago I noticed the similarities between this and this.

At the time I noticed it I didn't say anything, because I only noticed on the day it had been reckoned and also because none of the older members commented either. I figured if no one else thought there was an issue, then maybe I was seeing something that wasn't there. But I always felt that the designs were too similar, from subject matter down to composition. Maybe I'm still imagining things, I don't know...

This is exactly the type of insane slippery slope that happens in these situations. I draw a tree, other shirts have trees on them, it must be stolen. Then it is added to the list of examples that "prove" everything I do must be stolen. As the list grows longer with outlandish examples, it somehow becomes a more believable concept. Shockingly enough, two people can independently come up with a tree on a shirt.

Edit: For my own mental health, I think it best that I just stop responding for now, I will still be reading and may pop back in a bit later.

ramyb wrote:This is exactly the type of insane slippery slope that happens in these situations. I draw a tree, other shirts have trees on them, it must be stolen. Then it is added to the list of examples that "prove" everything I do must be stolen. As the list grows longer with outlandish examples, it somehow becomes a more believable concept. Shockingly enough, two people can independently come up with a tree on a shirt.

I wouldn't call it a coincidence when it keeps happening. Over and over and over and over. This isn't just crying on DA over ripped off designs. This is for something that brings you in thousands of dollars a month some months. It's blatant cheating for profit.

zombienerd wrote:I wouldn't call it a coincidence when it keeps happening. Over and over and over and over.

To expand just a little bit on that, I think one tough aspect to the situation is when the similar ideas are in designs that do not incorporate pop culture.

For example, with the Leonardo design, ramy was not the first and won't be the last person to use the turtle as a substitute for da Vinci. Another is the "recalculating" comparison - that joke has been incorporated into an episode of The Office and at least 1 or 2 insurance commercials. In cases like that, it can be a bit easier to give leeway.

When there isn't a clearly identifiable outside factor (reference) between similar designs then the situation becomes a bit murkier and harder to assume the best.

ramyb wrote:

1. Boots- With the apathy design on my site, I started with the slogan on the bottom and the world saying meh, but felt it was missing something. The decision to add the apathy alliance part at the top was inspired by your design, and I absolutely regret not checking with you first. I just figured the concepts were different so it would be ok, and I absolutely didn't mean to offend you.

This. You made some decent arguments about where ideas come from and how there is going to be overlap from artist to artist, but this is unacceptable. You thought that consciously ripping off (sorry, being inspired by) someone else's original idea would be OK? On what planet is that OK? No, maybe you didn't mean to offend Boots. . . but you certainly intended to use her design elements to earn money for yourself.

I've tried to keep an open mind about you, Ramyb, but it keeps getting harder.

zombienerd wrote:I This is for something that brings you in thousands of dollars a month some months. It's blatant cheating for profit.

This. This is what people have a problem with. It's not just "coiincidence." You didn't just "draw a tree" and Oh My Fruitful Garden, there's another shirt with a tree on it. You drew the SAME TREE in a different medium. That's like saying, oh, I didn't steal your song because even though I used the same lyrics, I made it a rock song instead of a country song. it's still stealing.

ramyb wrote:The decision to add the apathy alliance part at the top was inspired by your design, and I absolutely regret not checking with you first.

What is it called when you use someone else ideas and don't give them credit? That's right, plagiarism! I am glad you admitted that you stole from boots. You made the first step... Next step would be apologizing to ALL the other artist you "regret not checking in with."

_____

Unlike the other artists you mentioned, Ramy. No one has the "record" that you do, and you even have a pattern, that is very simple to follow.

First, a risk-taking, original artist submits a new, interesting design that has obvious success (meaning gets a lot of attention and votes).
Second, you submit a similar design shortly after.

For example, shortly after Diana won with this design

Unexpected Error



You just HAPPENED to create a firefox destroying the world shortly after for a maps derby... maps... the theme was maps!!!! haha!

Global Warming


And don't say it was inspired by heat maps... if you think heat maps had more of an influence over that design than Diana's design, then you are delusional. Maybe if your design didn't follow so shortly after (and you didn't have your bad history), then I would be less skeptic

Unlike the artists you have mentioned, when have you been an innovator? When have you been original? When have you done the "next big thing?" When have you set the trend? It seem that you never have, and you just follow the trends of what's recently been successful. Really, there is no problem with that except that sometimes you follow it too closely to a point were it become art theft.

ramyb wrote:
(large quote)

You're defending yourself by pointing these other similarities, but the main difference is that it is highly probable that you took your inspiration straight from people you compete with every week, and, above all, that it seems to be happening to you too often to be just a mere coincidence.

Your arguments of the tree and the "cat sleeping on a shirt" are a nice example of proof by reduction to the absurd : we're talking about something a little bit more specific here, don't you think ?

ramyb wrote:
Ok so I'm going to start with specific people I guess.

1. Boots- With the apathy design on my site, I started with the slogan on the bottom and the world saying meh, but felt it was missing something. The decision to add the apathy alliance part at the top was inspired by your design, and I absolutely regret not checking with you first. I just figured the concepts were different so it would be ok, and I absolutely didn't mean to offend you. I'll be emailing you later about this.

2. Fishbiscuit- I had never seen your design before when I designed my celebrate mediocrity shirt. I am not saying I wasn't around when it was posted in the derby, but I just didn't happen to see it. I also don't regularly follow other sites. If it makes you feel better, it doesn't sell at all. I don't know if you came up with the concept of celebrate mediocrity, but if you did, it has become extremely widespread because I've heard it many many times, so congrats. I was under the impression that the phrase has been around for a long while. I wanted to have a few slogan shirts since I could print them with fewer colors- clearly I'm not very good at coming up with them, and have decided to just stick to what I'm good at.

That said, I'm a little surprised that you are so offended, considering this "incident" that happened, in which case the designs were actually much more similar:





I didn't complain about it because I didn't care- people come up with similar shirts all the time, and it's difficult to keep track of every idea that has been done in every execution. Especially when you are designing very simple shirts, it is extremely easy to get into the territory of similar designs to *SOMETHING* that's out there. It happens, and it isn't theft.

(the same goes to you, odysseyroc)





In fact, I thought about doing a bring back pluto shirt for my site as well but then decided against it. I wonder if you would have jumped on it as a clear case of theft if I had.

3. The O-Riginal is still the most ridiculous thing I've ever dealt with in my entire life. Why are the vegetables the same? Because an onion is necessary in the shirt, and because broccoli and tomato are very easily recognizable, easy to draw, and there is a 6 color limit. If they were string beans, they would look stupid with faces, if they were eggplants, they would throw off the balance of the shirt, etc.- Secondly, the concepts are different. One of them is the onion having a bad odor and making the others sick to be near him. The other is the onion being a bully and the teacher scolding him. The idea of an onion smelling bad is not something walmazan came up with. Real onions smell bad. They exist in the real world. I really actually had never seen walmazan's shirt before when I designed mine. I get it, you will believe what you want to believe, and that is your right. Enjoy it.

What really shocks me about all of this is that people jump through hoops to defend other artists when they do designs that are absolutely painfully similar to things on other sites, and then jump on any occasion to find a vague similarity in this case to prove a point. This is not a situation of multiple strikes and you are out. This is a situation of looking extra hard to find coincidental examples to prove a fallacious point. The really amazing thing is that some people have actually deluded themselves into thinking that they make exceptions for other artists because they aren't repeat offenders. There is no repeat offenders situation going on here, it is multiple designs that look coincidentally similar. Go through any artist's previous designs, and scour the internet for similar designs. You will find plenty, and especially for simple shirts.

The simpler the designs, the more likely they exist elsewhere. Simple shirts are what I enjoy wearing, and I enjoy designing them. I used to post these types of designs on woot extremely often, and people would freak out about it, so I decided to expand into my own territory and make my own website where I could design whatever I wanted. That also opened the door for me to provide more variety on woot, and people have been (seemingly) pretty happy about it, considering my designs have been getting fewer complaints until this came up.

I have no interest in taking ideas from others, but I also am not carefully policing my designs to make sure that nothing remotely similar exists elsewhere. I don't see a point in doing so, if I want to design simple puns or cute shirts, I don't doubt that there is something similar out there, but I also don't think the executions of any of my shirts step on any toes or come too close to anything out there. This isn't a situation where there is one specific example that is similar and nobody has ever come up with the same concept before. Different people have independently arrived at the same obvious answer at different time points, and have executed it differently.

I'm 100% sure that the entirety of this post will do nothing to move any opinions. As always with these situations, people generally pick a side and assume that any defense from the other side is unfounded. That's fine, I just didn't want people to believe that I was hiding in a shell in the hopes that this would blow over. I stand behind my decisions and my work, and will gladly step out into the line of fire. So let me have it

Ramyb, your response here clearly...
clearly shows how you feel about other artists. The comtempt, the condescension, back-handed comments, the disregard are clear in your comments and response.

As an artist I take the time to search if similar concepts are out there before even starting a design. I do this for 2 reasons, common courtesy to other artists and because I truly try to pursue to create funny and artistically original work. But if you don't want to do that, well that says a lot about you as an artist and designer. It doesn't take long to run a search.

But why single you out of any other artists? Sure similar ideas arise all the time among artists. it may happen here or there with other artists, but it happens with you the majority of the time. I want to encourage you try designing something original or perhaps fresh which isn't poaching someone else's concepts or work. Its quite refreshing and challenging and broadens you as an artist and designer.

(p.s.)I am quoting the whole thing so you can't just go back in and change the way you worded things.

tarmawolf wrote:This. This is what people have a problem with. It's not just "coiincidence." You didn't just "draw a tree" and Oh My Fruitful Garden, there's another shirt with a tree on it. You drew the SAME TREE in a different medium. That's like saying, oh, I didn't steal your song because even though I used the same lyrics, I made it a rock song instead of a country song. it's still stealing.

NO I think they both copied this tatoo

or maybe it was this wedding invitation


Given that "Cherry Blossom watercolor" returned over 600 Google Image hits it's possible they both came up with the idea.

ramyb wrote:

Also,

It's funny you bring that up .

It's not surprising for 2 artists to have similar ideas. But similar executions for similar is is harder to justify away. For some things, like oh, say molecules, or a map of the US, they have to be similar or they're meaningless. If you created aa alphabet tee, no one will say you're copying the alphabet...but if you make one using Shakespeare, yeah, the finger is going to be pointed.

ramyb wrote:snip

For the Fishbiscuit rip, just coincidence that there's a red circle around the C in both designs?
In the few years that you have been submitting to Woot, why do you suppose there's so much negativity toward you? Would it have anything to do with the art cons that you and Seki were accused of table-grabbing and selling the same art at, while denying the art was yours? Or could it be the way Seki was banned from DA, and you fully supported her creating a new account under another name? Or was it possibly this theft that you are now being accused of (which has been mentioned from the beginning of your submissions -I'll mention Grim Reaper)
Or was it because some found it hard to believe the Seki was caught stealing and you profess to know nothing about it?
It's difficult to believe that one person could be so maligned if there has never been any legit reasons to do so. Did a portion of the world just wake up one day and say "Let's pick on this random guy, and accuse him of all kinds of nefarious behavior for the hell of it" ?
---Where's there's smoke, there's fire.

So you stole, but just that one time. Because you felt your design needed something.

But all those others are coincidences.

At least you feel bad about it. Not bad enough to take the shirt down. But meh...

ramyb wrote:If I had posted it on woot, I am sure it would have been rejected, because the concept has been done elsewhere. But similar shirts exist is a concept employed by woot based on their business model.

It's also for legal reasons.

If you think there's a double standard going on... well, perhaps so, but no other artist has such a track record either.

Some of us really had high hopes that the past has indeed been left in the past. Alas, it seems that it was all just for show ...

I'm an old time wooter, and a huge fan (friend) of boots. I've bought literally hundreds of shirts here at woot, but I've not been coming here for quite some time.

After a long absence, today I decided to see what was going on in the "community" tab.

I see that nothing has changed. Ramy is one of the prime reasons I don't come here anymore, and I don't spend money here anymore.

It's extrememly discouraging and frustrating to see ramy and his ilk to get away with things like this.

Continual and repeated coincidence? yeah, right.


I hate this for Jamie and the other artists, because ramy just slides by "just enough" to weasel around the rules and the law. It's unseemly and feels dirty, and I now have the reminder why this isn't my community anymore.

see ya.

p.s. love ya Jamie

This is not really related to the topic at hand, but I just wanted to show Boots a picture of this impressive dork I found online while image searching for knitted wizard hats (don't ask!)



Aahahahahah!

bluetuba wrote:This is not really related to the topic at hand, but I just wanted to show Boots a picture of this impressive dork I found online while image searching for knitted wizard hats (don't ask!)



Aahahahahah!

So now I need to ask, why?

So clearly none of you have ever studied Calculus. That insanely trippy math that was "discovered" by two guys independently. It even lead to one of them being labeled a plagiarist. Google it.

There are things that people are going to do similar. Having a c circled in red is pretty *obviously* a thing that *any* kid who has ever been to school is going to recognize. These symbols appear repeatedly in our culture FOR A REASON.

It's like the stupid little test that asks you a bunch of stupid questions you answer fast and then asks you to name a color and tool. Everyone says Red Hammer. Because for whatever reason in our culture red is the first color we think of and hammer is the most common tool.

Now, I am not saying Ramyb isn't or is ripping people off. I am saying that unless you can overlay designs and show where he has lifted strokes from other artists, you don't have a case. The dude makes a crap ton of t-shirts for a crap ton of sites, there are going to be similarities. The question is, can you prove any of them are actually stolen? None of the examples shown in this thread have convinced me. All seem like similar ideas, but none are clearly copied. (You want to see clearly copied, go to Cafe Press...) Even the cherry blossom tree one, which is the closest, can't make the case because how iconic is a cherry tree? I mean really... It's like saying anyone who uses the letter a that's red stole from Hawthorne.

It's all about being immersed in the same ideas, same themes, same colors, and same restrictions. Why are there soooo many shirts dealing with poor little Pluto? Because WE ALL feel that connection. We all get the joke. We all have that instinctual response and then want the shirt.

And finally, one last point, a great deal of art/writing/design gets "stolen" because the second person sees what the first did and goes, hey, that's pretty neat. But man, they messed up this and this. With those two things different, it could be much much better. I should do one, just so I can do it better. Then the second guy does *exactly* that. You think every fantasy author hasn't read LotR and thought, oh man, this could be so much better?

The thing that really gets me is that in most of these cases, one design is clearly superior to the other, and it's about 50/50 on if it is Ramyb's or not. So as far as I am concerned, good job. The people who believe they are "original" are doing good work and being pushed to come up with better designs and the people who supposedly aren't "original" are improving some great ideas and making some really iconic shirts.

chumpmagic wrote:For example, shortly after Diana won with this design

Unexpected Error



You just HAPPENED to create a firefox destroying the world shortly after for a maps derby... maps... the theme was maps!!!! haha!

Global Warming


And don't say it was inspired by heat maps... if you think heat maps had more of an influence over that design than Diana's design, then you are delusional. Maybe if your design didn't follow so shortly after (and you didn't have your bad history), then I would be less skeptical.

I like that Ramyb Firefox shirt and don't have a problem with it(so cute). It's a logical joke considering the Firefox logo and it's in a different style. I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm glad you're looking out for me but I'm not upset about this.

Mostly I'm marveling at the "if you draw a Sakura tree you are stealing" part of this thread.

ramyb wrote:Lots of stuff that isn't relevant except for admitting to stealing Boots' design

It's more than I expected that you'd admit to stealing from Boots. Now you just need to admit all the other designs you've stolen. You went on a long tirade about ideas. There's a reason you can't copyright an idea, you are correct, because everyone can have them independently. What can be copyrighted and why people are pissed is because what you are stealing are specific design elements. This isn't about two people making Dr. Who as an owl shirts (though given that the shirt you copied from is high on the google image results it's no surprise that's where you ripped from).

The ring design from this design as tarmawolf pointed out:


is exactly the same as from you Darkness design minus some tiny changes in flames:



That isn't two independent people coming up with the same idea. That's you looking up designs before the derby and stealing design elements in their entirety. It's unethical, it's wrong, and it's no different than Seki and World Nomination.

You're pathetic for pretending what you're doing is ok and woot is even more pathetic for allowing it because if you sold less shirts you'd be banned already.

edit:

Just to be clear, my original post had originally not referred back to tarmawolf's post. As I pressed the button I thought better of it because I didn't discover that connection and it would be wrong for me to represent as if I had. And we are just talking about a post on a forum not stealing other people's work to profit from it. It matters.

Jestik wrote:I'm an old time wooter, and a huge fan (friend) of boots. I've bought literally hundreds of shirts here at woot, but I've not been coming here for quite some time.

After a long absence, today I decided to see what was going on in the "community" tab.

I see that nothing has changed. Ramy is one of the prime reasons I don't come here anymore, and I don't spend money here anymore.

It's extrememly discouraging and frustrating to see ramy and his ilk to get away with things like this.

Continual and repeated coincidence? yeah, right.


I hate this for Jamie and the other artists, because ramy just slides by "just enough" to weasel around the rules and the law. It's unseemly and feels dirty, and I now have the reminder why this isn't my community anymore.

see ya.

Miss you being around. I always enjoyed your contributions.

mrwednesday wrote:It's more than I expected that you'd admit to stealing from Boots. Now you just need to admit all the other designs you've stolen. You went on a long tirade about ideas. There's a reason you can't copyright an idea, you are correct, because everyone can have them independently. What can be copyrighted and why people are pissed is because what you are stealing are specific design elements. This isn't about two people making Dr. Who as an owl shirts (though given that the shirt you copied from is high on the google image results it's no surprise that's where you ripped from).

The ring design from this design as tarmawolf pointed out:


is exactly the same as from you Darkness design minus some tiny changes in flames:



That isn't two independent people coming up with the same idea. That's you looking up designs before the derby and stealing design elements in their entirety. It's unethical, it's wrong, and it's no different than Seki and World Nomination.

You're pathetic for pretending what you're doing is ok and woot is even more pathetic for allowing it because if you sold less shirts you'd be banned already.

edit:

Just to be clear, my original post had originally not referred back to tarmwolf's post. As I pressed the button I thought better of it because I didn't discover that connection and it would be wrong for me to represent as if I had. And we are just talking about a post on a forum not stealing other people's work to profit from it. It matters.

I was not the only one to notice the "similarities" in the design either. I showed the shirt design to a family member, who is NOT a wooter at all, and his comment was, "Did the same girl do that shirt who did your sins pictures?" The 7 Deadly Sins artist is very well known on Deviant Art, and that collection in particular is probably more well known than her name.