Shirt.Woot

ThunderThighs wrote:I would like to ask that we not debate any religious meanings of this design as I feel sure that is not what Fishbiscuit had in mind at all.

It might not have been a conscious intent by Fishbiscuit, but that does not mean it cannot be offensive, so saying that since it was not the designer's intent, you can't discuss it is idiocy.

meh3884 wrote:Wow, the woot community forgot to take their oversensitivity medication today. Get over yourselves. Fun shirt, printed on AA - bought.

Exactly what I was thinking.

RayKremer wrote:Contrary to popular belief, plenty of us religious people like science too. Our unemployed college graduates would be in better shape if they'd chosen science or engineering instead of philosophy and women's studies.

Speaking of the write-up, there actually are plenty of economists that try to back up their arguments with evidence. There's a reason economics is called the dismal science though, it's highly interpretive and there's no way to test a hypothesis in isolation. You tend to get a lot of confirmation bias based on a person's political leaning rather than scientific method. You can say the same thing whereever politics has hijacked science, like climate change for instance.

But frankly, the worst thing overall is that people don't understand science. All you need is a report on the nightly news that "a scientist" put out a press release announcing the results of some study, and the mass public believes this information to be the gospel truth, even years later when other studies have found the opposite result but without fanfare. There is an incorrect but widespread belief that "science" is always infallible.

Everything else is still dumb compared to science, but it's not infallible.

All this over a shirt.
Wow.

I want to buy this shirt not just for me, but for all of my friends. It's awesome, fishbiscuit5! Great design.

Unfortunately, I can only be in for 1. FOR SCIENCE!

Science is equivalent with demanding evidence. It means demanding testable, reproducible evidence. Logic and reason can demand evidence, but it's often logical and reasonable to have evidence that isn't testable or reproducible. If you said, "Gee, I saw you yesterday at the corner of 15th and Broadway" and I said, "Really? I don't remember being there." and then I said "You were wearing a frilled leather vest and a Fedora" I might say "Oh, I forgot about the dress-like-an-Loco in the Coco party I went to. That was actually two days ago."

This is not a reproducible test. But it is confirming evidence that I saw you, since I remember what you wore.

I present the hierarchy of science:
Hard science: Double blind controlled repeatable tests.
Science: (Randomized) controlled test
Semi-science: Aggregated "Natural Studies" of non-repeatable phenomena through statistical analysis
Simple rationality: Anecdotal evidence, logical syllogisms, weighting the preponderance of historical evidence, plausibility and parsimony

Hooray! I was really hoping this one would make it!

I'm really glad I read the comments first, because I never seem to notice when ordering when it's on a AA blank instead.

I suggested this before in an email, but I'll say it again here... Woot, please, please, please, for the love of all that is sciency, make it glaringly obvious that it will be AA blanks, so that people like myself, who are bad at the internets, will not keep buying the wrong-sized shirt. Like, really large flashing letters at the top of the page. And then again when you order. And then a pop-up that says, "Hey dummy, you're ordering a shirt on an American Apparel shirt instead of our usual Anvil ones... are you sure you're getting the right size?" and then when you click yes, another pop-up that says, "Are you really sure? Did you check the measurements?" and when you click yes, another one that says, "Do you even know that the American Apparel sizes are different from the Anvil ones?" and when you click yes, then a pop-up that says, "No takesies backsies!!!"

Also, to jump into the debate... I really kind of hope this shirt DOES offend some people I run into during the day... it will help me weed out the people I'm not interested in being friends with.

miken927 wrote:

I love you.

yellowflower wrote:Hooray! I was really hoping this one would make it!

I'm really glad I read the comments first, because I never seem to notice when ordering when it's on a AA blank instead.

I suggested this before in an email, but I'll say it again here... Woot, please, please, please, for the love of all that is sciency, make it glaringly obvious that it will be AA blanks, so that people like myself, who are bad at the internets, will not keep buying the wrong-sized shirt. Like, really large flashing letters at the top of the page. And then again when you order. And then a pop-up that says, "Hey dummy, you're ordering a shirt on an American Apparel shirt instead of our usual Anvil ones... are you sure you're getting the right size?" and then when you click yes, another pop-up that says, "Are you really sure? Did you check the measurements?" and when you click yes, another one that says, "Do you even know that the American Apparel sizes are different from the Anvil ones?" and when you click yes, then a pop-up that says, "No takesies backsies!!!"

Also, to jump into the debate... I really kind of hope this shirt DOES offend some people I run into during the day... it will help me weed out the people I'm not interested in being friends with.

Well, duly noted, but on the features tab it does say this in the big gold box:
"Men's & Women's Royal Blue Tee sizes are TEMPORARILY printed on American Apparel. Check the sizing chart for details!"

Hope that helps.

So... can I design a shirt that says," Choose Faith Everything Else is Stupid"? Quite possibly the worst shirt ever offered by woot.

I AM in fact buying this partially because it can be interpreted as promoting atheism or non-theism. Science uber alles. Seriously, dinosaurs existed.

wyattjblizz wrote:So... can I design a shirt that says," Choose Faith Everything Else is Stupid"?

Yes, you can. But since W00t is a community heavily supported by cynical geeks, freaks, and nerds, it probably won't make the cut. W00t's derby system is a democracy.

Seriously though, this design doesn't *have* to be interpreted in that fashion. I like it for that reason, cuz I ams what I ams, but even I didn't jump to that direct correlation until I saw people complaining about it. Which just made me want it more.

ThunderThighs wrote:Remember that the community chose this shirt. That's what the derby is all about. Make sure you vote - every vote counts.

It may help to remember that this is a Double-Take Derby and this design was originally submitted for the Propaganda... FOR SCIENCE derby. It was quite on topic for that derby. There were no comments about any religious intent in any of the comments in the Propaganda derby or this one.

I would like to ask that we not debate any religious meanings of this design as I feel sure that is not what Fishbiscuit had in mind at all.

Reclaimer456 wrote:It might not have been a conscious intent by Fishbiscuit, but that does not mean it cannot be offensive, so saying that since it was not the designer's intent, you can't discuss it is idiocy.

ANYTHING can be offensive to someone who's dumb and/or easily offended (SO WHAT? Does being "offended" grant you some sort of special rights?)

Proclaiming a woot staffer's objection to your misguided and misdirected "offendedness" as idiocy certainly seems like idiocy, though...

michaelvella wrote:All this over a shirt.
Wow.

It's crazy!

I actually interpreted as a little offensive, but in the other way. As if it were sarcastically mocking the folks who think invoking "science" wins arguments.

Rarely do folks who actually understand the scientific method, induction in general, or have a grasp of at least one discipline of "science" actually invoke "science" as an authority.

Imagine if you would if a doctor actually proclaimed to you: take this medicine, science deems it the right choice! Science demands that your car run more efficiently if you fill your tires!

You also won't hear educated people argue that "science" requires no leaps of faith, or that it some how dismisses other disciplines, religions, or ideologies. That's reserved for internet trolls.

Of course, since "dumb" is something children use to mock one another... I just assumed this was meant ironically, to tease internet trolls and jr. high kids that think "science" legitimizes all their irrational and baseless beliefs.

A lot of really self centered people here today. "This offends ME!" Get over yourselves.

I wasn't going to buy this then I saw how many people got their undies in a knot over it. Buying one now. Thanks for putting me over the edge

FOR SCIENCE!

Wow... South Dakota really must not like science!

I love how the designer quoted the comment that this was made for a science propoganda theme and was not intended to be offensive, but to fit that theme, yet people continue to whine about the shirt. Probably because the didn't actually read any of the prior posts. It's not a debate. If you don't like, don't buy...

I would be in for 1 but *ahem* the AA shirts don't quite fit those of us who are full figured. I like the new shirts.

And it's an awesome design!

Nice work, fishbiscuit5!

1.21 gigawatts!

dabookworm18 wrote:I would be in for 1 but *ahem* the AA shirts don't quite fit those of us who are full figured. I like the new shirts.

And it's an awesome design!

Sigh, my thoughts exactly. I have to order a mens 3x to fit my "lovely lady lumps" and it's a tight fit in the AA but Anvil is nice.

Now I can pair this shirt with my Consider Yourself Warned shirt!

Patuxentbball wrote:Well, I jumped and ordered before noticing it's AA. Can anyone confirm Men's Large in American Apparel should fit similarly to the standard Woot! Men's Large?

It'll fit better, and feel better against your skin, as well as last longer in the wash, and wont shrink if you do the correct cycle on the wash.

Speed to First Woot: 0m 48.992s
First Sucker: crafalik
Last Wooter to Woot: incredibledeege
Last Purchase: a minute ago
Order Pace (rank):
Top 50% of Shirt Woots
Top 32% of all Woots
Woots Sold: 2549

First day sales 2549
First day post 62

Thanks for all the supportive comments and to everyone who bought this shirt, now YOU rule!

fishbiscuit, I printed off the sentiment to post on the window in the door of my HS Physics classroom. I will buy a shirt to assuage my guilt for stealing your intellectual creation. Will people be offended? C'mon, get over yourselves!

inkycatz wrote:Well, duly noted, but on the features tab it does say this in the big gold box:
"Men's & Women's Royal Blue Tee sizes are TEMPORARILY printed on American Apparel. Check the sizing chart for details!"

Hope that helps.

Yes, and normal people, who are good at the internets (and who are not me) would remember to check for that before clicking the giant "buy it" button...

I know it's my own fault, I do. But I also know there are a lot more of us baddies out there!

Mostly it's being bad at the internets, but partly it's because when there's a shirt I want, I get so excited I just want to click all the buttons really fast. But yeah, mostly the being bad thing.

Proverbs32 wrote:Agreeing with you. I am so disappointed by Woot for selling this shirt. It is offensive for two reasons:
1) It is calling other subjects dumb. (I have multiple college degrees not only in science--but also in arts.)
2) It has an implying message as a promotion of atheism. People has the right to believe or choose not to believe in any religion; however, calling other people dumb is off the limit.

Yes, people have the right to believe in whatever religion they want, but we also have the right to call them dumb. What's so bad about promoting believing in things that are only rational and backed by evidence?

No one has the "right" to be not offended. It's as simple as that. Everything that exists can potentially offend someone, somewhere, somehow. If something offends you, avoid it. *shrug*

I think any who are offended are entitled to explain why they are offended, however. Nothing like a good (i.e. civilized and rational) discussion. It's how we all learn from each other.

FTR, I heart this shirt, as I love science and the arts, and....everything else. Especially irony.

This is such a great shirt design. It's like an abbreviated version of a conversation I was having the day I noticed it. Essentially, if you're not using science/reason to back up your arguments, then you've got nothing of value to justify your position with.

Are these shirts printed on the original woot shirt material? The softer, smaller sizes?

I'm 5'3.5", normally a size 6 or 8 (bra size 34C). I like my shirts to fit snugly, but not too tight.

Anyone out there of similar build have a size recommendation?

Thanks!
P.S. And since I gave all my other stats....I'm also newly single, an athiest, and pretty frickin' awesome. Call me, maybe?

I'm really tired of buying the wrong size.....Are the AA shirt materials the old school softer, smaller sizes?

I'm 5'3.5", normally a size 6 or 8 (bra size 34C). I like my shirts to fit snugly, but not too tight.

I used to order WM or WL, but when they switched sizes, the WS or WM works better. Pls Help!

inkycatz wrote:Well, duly noted, but on the features tab it does say this in the big gold box:
"Men's & Women's Royal Blue Tee sizes are TEMPORARILY printed on American Apparel. Check the sizing chart for details!"

Hope that helps.

This looks like it might be helpful....

http://shirt.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=4862827

ocjuggler wrote:I'm really tired of buying the wrong size.....Are the AA shirt materials the old school softer, smaller sizes?

I'm 5'3.5", normally a size 6 or 8 (bra size 34C). I like my shirts to fit snugly, but not too tight.

I used to order WM or WL, but when they switched sizes, the WS or WM works better. Pls Help!

ThunderThighs wrote:Remember that the community chose this shirt. That's what the derby is all about. Make sure you vote - every vote counts.

It may help to remember that this is a Double-Take Derby and this design was originally submitted for the Propaganda... FOR SCIENCE derby. It was quite on topic for that derby. There were no comments about any religious intent in any of the comments in the Propaganda derby or this one.

I would like to ask that we not debate any religious meanings of this design as I feel sure that is not what Fishbiscuit had in mind at all.

Thank you!

I am a scientist and as I read (and ordered) this shirt, religion never crossed my mind. (I am shocked that religion-bashing, as a specific topic, could be derived from this shirt's message.) Because of the past four presidential elections, it became clear how much the general public DIDN'T know about science. I'm hoping that someone comments on this shirt or, better yet, asks a science-related question, so that I can explain how much science impacts them every day of their lives. That was one of my favorite things to do while I was teaching in grad school. A student would inevitably say that they didn't need to know science because they wouldn't use it later. It was easy to show them how they would need science in a way they could remember later!

I also want to throw in how the daily news (and other institutions) tries to frighten people who are under-educated in science with it unnecessarily. Bringing people to the point of panic over a few terribly-chosen words is unconscionable!
P.S. Science rules!

I LOVE TO HIGH FIVE!! I also do them over if they're not up to par....Sounds like we are pretty much meant to be BFFs. Thanks for the confirmation. You are Awesome!!1!

goldenthorn wrote:Hello there! It sounds like you and I are the exact same size and shape. And share the same attributes. Would you like a new best friend slash twin sister? Yes? HIGH FIVE!!1!

These replacement blue shirts are currently the AA women's of yore, so, yes, do buy as you did back in the halcyon days of softer, smaller-sized shirts. But it likely won't last long, so be careful and quick in your choosing. Always check before ordering; even if you just checked a shirt's origins 30 minutes ago, check again right before clicking the buy button: if the origin of manufacture is listed as America for any women's sizing, it is AA (disclaimer that I'm not an employee and just using the info I deduce from staff posts in forums).

Cheers and good luck!

For the folks who ordered a shirt (rather than debated it): was it printed funny? I got one shirt that had a skewed printing so Woot sent me a second one. The image on the second one starts a good 5 inches from the collar, which is different than what the mockup shows. It looks a little odd. Anyone else have similar experiences?

I got my shirt, the printing was fine. Looks great.

For those wondering about AA sizes for smaller women, I am a taller very thin woman who would get XS or maybe S in normal shirts, but the M in AA womens sizes fits me well, not too tight but not too loose.

Is this an atheist site now?

jasonAP wrote:For the folks who ordered a shirt (rather than debated it): was it printed funny? I got one shirt that had a skewed printing so Woot sent me a second one. The image on the second one starts a good 5 inches from the collar, which is different than what the mockup shows. It looks a little odd. Anyone else have similar experiences?

Yes. I am about to email them now, as the printing is skewed. :/