Derby #31: Water
+686

optimist, pessimist, or physicist

optimist, pessimist, or physicist
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haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


The glass is half, um, distorting reality.

Radar237


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Radar237
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


or The glass is just engineered twice the sized it needed to be.

emerica


quality posts: 0 Private Messages emerica
Radar237 wrote:or The glass is just engineered twice the sized it needed to be.


I bought my Uncle a shirt that said that cause he's an engineer.

erll, i'm ogg yo trsf snf dlrrp

brizz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizz
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


you have got to be kidding me.

Aberrantic


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Aberrantic
brizz wrote:you have got to be kidding me.


Agreed

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
brizz wrote:you have got to be kidding me.


It takes all kinds. Bafflement at a truth is an opportunity to learn.

knexfreak111


quality posts: 0 Private Messages knexfreak111

I'm not a fan of the two grey lines at the top and the bottom of the cup, and the shirt is a tad too simplistic for me to put down a ten on it. However, the design itself is well-made.

tiaerman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tiaerman

I wonder why this design just made it into the "new hotness." Its a cool idea so I'm not meaning to bash the designer I was just confused at where the sudden burst of votes came from. O well. Good luck and kuddos.

There are 10 types of people: those who know binary, and those who don't.

ansharp


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ansharp
Aberrantic wrote:Agreed


Make that three. And top of the hotness?!

blackjackjester


quality posts: 0 Private Messages blackjackjester

For being in 5th, this shirt sure doesn't have a lot of comments on it. I like the idea, but...this seems more of office decoration than shirt material =/. This could make a pretty sweet motivational poster

fablefire


quality posts: 37 Private Messages fablefire
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


Yay... a new imaginary day.


saveyoursanity


quality posts: 0 Private Messages saveyoursanity
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


I ... just don't like it that much. The water does not look like water. The shirt color is not really appropriate, either. Grey? Eh.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
saveyoursanity wrote:I ... just don't like it that much. The water does not look like water. The shirt color is not really appropriate, either. Grey? Eh.


I totally understand your sentiments. There are a few things that people appreciate about shirt designs, and art is just one of them. For me, the idea is the top priority. My foremost goal is to create something fairly novel and interesting (that doesn't require freehand drawing); my secondary objective is to make it look nice. I'm not an artist, but I did make sure that I was satisfied with every part of the design before submitting it. I think that a lot of other people like the idea behind it, so the art only needs to capture the idea without looking awful. It's like shirts with text: artistic folks concentrate on the font and colors, whereas people like myself will chuckle at a good phrase and not even notice the design. There are some beautiful entries here, but my brain is more geared toward simple, clever designs to feature on my chest.

After seeing a Cho, KLSWoot, Zenne, FableFire, TGentry, etc. style design, many people would balk at this entry. I think the lack of comments is informative in confirming that this appeals to those who aren't all that concerned with discussing art- they're voting for a decently portrayed idea. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to a level where I can appeal on both cerebral and aesthetic levels. Thanks for explaining your dislike, saveyoursanity.

klswoot


quality posts: 0 Private Messages klswoot
haxrox wrote:I totally understand your sentiments. There are a few things that people appreciate about shirt designs, and art is just one of them. For me, the idea is the top priority. My foremost goal is to create something fairly novel and interesting (that doesn't require freehand drawing); my secondary objective is to make it look nice. I'm not an artist, but I did make sure that I was satisfied with every part of the design before submitting it. I think that a lot of other people like the idea behind it, so the art only needs to capture the idea without looking awful. It's like shirts with text: artistic folks concentrate on the font and colors, whereas people like myself will chuckle at a good phrase and not even notice the design. There are some beautiful entries here, but my brain is more geared toward simple, clever designs to feature on my chest.

After seeing a Cho, KLSWoot, Zenne, FableFire, TGentry, etc. style design, many people would balk at this entry. I think the lack of comments is informative in confirming that this appeals to those who aren't all that concerned with discussing art- they're voting for a decently portrayed idea. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to a level where I can appeal on both cerebral and aesthetic levels. Thanks for explaining your dislike, saveyoursanity.


HaxRox. What a great reply. You provided explanation in a very thoughtful way. I enjoyed reading it. For what it's worth, I think your shirt is done very well. I suspect it is garnering votes because it is a clever take on the glass half-empty idea and it appeals to the intellectuals/scholars in the woot audience. You'll often notice that the designs that place in the top 10 often have a cute, an artsy, and/or a 'smart' (dare I say 'nerdy') focus. I think all of these types of shirts appeal to a different portion of the woot audience. Some probably vote and purchase for themselves, and other vote because they expect that they will buy it as a gift for someone else. I think your shirt is in its position because it is appealing to the crowd that wants a more intellectual shirt. Nothing wrong with that.

And, may I say, that I am humbled yet honored that you lumped me in the same group as the Woot gods (Cho, Fable and TGentry and if this week is any indication, Zenne will achieve their rank very quickly as well!) I am in no way comparable to their skills and technique, but I hope to be someday. Thanks for the mention!

2thFairy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages 2thFairy
klswoot wrote:HaxRox. What a great reply.
(stuff)
And, may I say, that I am humbled yet honored that you lumped me in the same group as the Woot gods (Cho, Fable and TGentry and if this week is any indication, Zenne will achieve their rank very quickly as well!)
(stuff)


sigh... you both left out Edgar..

brizz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizz
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


i'll say it again: You have GOT to be kidding me. How on earth is this ahead of edgar, fable, cho's sashimi hunters, river man, and a dozen other great designs.

Simply unbelievable what people will vote for.

klswoot


quality posts: 0 Private Messages klswoot
2thFairy wrote:sigh... you both left out Edgar..


I didn't include Edgar initially because I quoted the original post....but my list of major woot contributors, awesome designers, and talented artists would be much longer....my list would include, in no particular order:
Edgar, Fable, TGentry, Disco, Cho, Jimiyo, GeekFactor, Zenne, Artulo, No1, Jaden, Patch, ShekTek, Derek, Josephus, Kenney, SoothedbyRainfall, Twallis,Cheese,ELS,Shan,Mihalis,Sokowa,Yugidean,Shigwarm,Jack,InitialSam, Bluchez, Adder,....and countless others that I'm sure I've commented on before. Each are extremely talented and I've really enjoyed seeing their styles develop throughout the derby. I know I'm forgetting a bunch....but that was my 'short list'.

But, you're right. Edgar is definitely top-notch!

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
KLS, good point about purchasing for others. It's so tempting from our seats at the computer to imagine all the other voters as having the same age/gender/taste. I see from your submissions that you are stretching and challenging yourself creatively. That in conjunction with the public response to your entries makes you a great designer in my book.

2thFairy wrote:sigh... you both left out Edgar..


He's included, along with several others, in "etc." Remember, I'm not an artist, so I can't always appreciate the same styles as you. Also, read my comment in edgar's latest entry ;)

brizz wrote:i'll say it again: You have GOT to be kidding me. How on earth is this ahead of edgar, fable, cho's sashimi hunters, river man, and a dozen other great designs.
Simply unbelievable what people will vote for.


If you're still confounded and the votes haven't gone down, it means you are missing something. This is not an insult, it's a lesson I had to learn myself. Instead of read-> emote -> post, consider the source of your emotional response first. Apparently, many voters appreciate things that you do not, and vice versa. I'm gonna be harshly honest - calling someone's taste wrong or inferior, especially with something personally subjective like a t-shirt, is arrogant. Your phrasing suggests that you don't consider these voters' opinions to be as valid as yours.

I had the same gut reaction to these derbies, and I made a point to look over the winning entries that I didn't "get", read over the compliments, and tried to appreciate new aspects of the work or at least understand the demographic. It's a helpful exercise. Also, 2thFairy, I really didn't get the Edgar fanclub at first, but I'm learning.

blahmcblah


quality posts: 5 Private Messages blahmcblah
haxrox wrote:If you're still confounded and the votes haven't gone down, it means you are missing something. This is not an insult, it's a lesson I had to learn myself. Instead of read-> emote -> post, consider the source of your emotional response first. Apparently, many voters appreciate things that you do not, and vice versa. I'm gonna be harshly honest - calling someone's taste wrong or inferior, especially with something personally subjective like a t-shirt, is arrogant. Your phrasing suggests that you don't consider these voters' opinions to be as valid as yours.


Bravo!


ansharp


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ansharp
haxrox wrote:KLS, good point about purchasing for others. It's so tempting from our seats at the computer to imagine all the other voters as having the same age/gender/taste. I see from your submissions that you are stretching and challenging yourself creatively. That in conjunction with the public response to your entries makes you a great designer in my book.

If you're still confounded and the votes haven't gone down, it means you are missing something. This is not an insult, it's a lesson I had to learn myself. Instead of read-> emote -> post, consider the source of your emotional response first. Apparently, many voters appreciate things that you do not, and vice versa. I'm gonna be harshly honest - calling someone's taste wrong or inferior, especially with something personally subjective like a t-shirt, is arrogant. Your phrasing suggests that you don't consider these voters' opinions to be as valid as yours.

I had the same gut reaction to these derbies, and I made a point to look over the winning entries that I didn't "get", read over the compliments, and tried to appreciate new aspects of the work or at least understand the demographic. It's a helpful exercise. Also, 2thFairy, I really didn't get the Edgar fanclub at first, but I'm learning.


I am most certainly in the nerdy/clever idea camp (just look at my designs, but I still don't really understand the appeal of this shirt. I'll keep my specific gripes to myself because I don't think they will be very constructive at this point (otherwise I'd be keen to share them), but I would like to say that, haxrox, I appreciate your thoughtful responses and attempts at explanation. It's good to know that you at least were attempting from the get-go a thoughtful design that would be appreciated, which you are succeeding at, even if I still don't know why. (I've tried to look back and appreciate why everyone is voting for it, but I'm sorry, I just can't see it.)

Lighter


quality posts: 11 Private Messages Lighter
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


Over 500 and not fogged. Has this happened in the past?

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
ansharp wrote:I am most certainly in the nerdy/clever idea camp ... but I still don't really understand the appeal of this shirt...


Thanks for contributing to a thoughtful discussion ansharp, and for taking the time to consider the work. I'm a fan of your molecules' expressions. For all the philosophy behind enjoying things, sometimes it just comes down to our brain saying "pretty" or "anti-pretty". It'd be fun to see woot set up some hidden betting function, where you can secretly pick what entries you think will make the top 10.

In other news:

THANKS FOR THE 500 VOTES! My cup runneth over.

klswoot


quality posts: 0 Private Messages klswoot
Lighter wrote:Over 500 and not fogged. Has this happened in the past?


That's pretty incredible. I honestly have no idea what it takes to get in the fog. The ShirtDerbyStats have had three tied the entire time. I'm under the impression that I'm in 4th given the vph and the 'trips' in the hotness. But, I honestly don't know.

I think Zenne's shirt is in first and is going to have one heck of a vote total when the votes are revealed. For those who have been around since the beginning of the derby, was Cool Breeze the highest vote getter across all the derbies?

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
klswoot wrote:That's pretty incredible. I honestly have no idea what it takes to get in the fog. The ShirtDerbyStats have had three tied the entire time. I'm under the impression that I'm in 4th given the vph and the 'trips' in the hotness. But, I honestly don't know.


The problem is the fog count on SDS is an algorithm. That algo isn't exactly accurate, but the foggers HAVE to be at least one vote higher than 5th to stay in the fog. Therefore, the program defaults to 5th+1. The three probably are in the 550-650 vicinity, since they haven't been caught in a while. I predict Zenne has about 900 today.

I disagree with kls though, I think Cho's in fourth, with Nessie around second and he's in third. And unless Cho starts gaining votes, this glass design will soon overtake him.

bluchez


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bluchez
SkekTek wrote:The problem is the fog count on SDS is an algorithm. That algo isn't exactly accurate, but the foggers HAVE to be at least one vote higher than 5th to stay in the fog. Therefore, the program defaults to 5th+1. The three probably are in the 550-650 vicinity, since they haven't been caught in a while. I predict Zenne has about 900 today.

I disagree with kls though, I think Cho's in fourth, with Nessie around second and he's in third. And unless Cho starts gaining votes, this glass design will soon overtake him.


The biggest problem with any vote guessing algorithm is the people stuffing the hotness. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have anything remotely accurate as long as this is allowed to continue. From the trompe derby, my guesses were off by as much as 60 votes. I do not believe this to be a flaw in my algorithms, but an indication that at least 60 votes were removed and added back to some of the top entries in order to take advantage of this flaw in the system, and move the entries into the hotness when they SHOULD NOT have been.

Edited to remove inappropriate finger pointing.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte
bluchez wrote:The biggest problem with any vote guessing algorithm is the people stuffing the hotness. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have anything remotely accurate as long as this is allowed to continue. From the trompe derby, my guesses were off by as much as 60 votes. I do not believe this to be a flaw in my algorithms, but an indication that at least 60 votes were removed and added back to entries like your fish in the pocket in order to take advantage of this flaw in the system, and move the entries into the hotness when they SHOULD NOT have been.

Does that actually still work? I didn't think it did...

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | s.w: 16 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

sebing


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sebing
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


i don't think it's all that arrogant to question why people would vote for such an obviously flawed and, if i may say, stupid shirt. the cup is wrong....some lines don't continue where they should. there's zero depth, etc. It just looks so mind numbingly simplistic i'm in awe of it's attracting 500+ votes. I get so tired of reading people on here equating votes with quality. that's extremely flawed logic. just because enough people aren't astute enough to see the flaws in this overly simplistic little thing doesn't make it good. I try not to say too much in here, but geez...this is just bad.

ansharp


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ansharp
haxrox wrote:Thanks for contributing to a thoughtful discussion ansharp, and for taking the time to consider the work... For all the philosophy behind enjoying things, sometimes it just comes down to our brain saying "pretty" or "anti-pretty"...


But it's more than "pretty or anti-pretty" for me and, I think, many others, and now that I'm not at work, I'll share some of my critisms, many of which have already been enumerated, so forgive me for beating the horse, as they say.

1. The water is not convincing or natural. It doesn't make sense, really. The front is completely clear, the top is not. That could work except the cut-off side is the busiest part, which aesthetically doesn't satisy, though when I just tried to point out its flaw, I could not nail it down. All in all, the highlighting is well-intended, but not convincing.

2. Where is the left half of the glass? I see the outline, but there's nothing else to indicate that there is anything there. The glass needs highlights to even exist.

3. The outline of the glass doesn't make sense. There is a gray line around the top left that doesn't continue behind the completely transparent water. Same with the gray line around the bottom (as I recall from memory since I'm not staring at it right now). I don't know what you are trying to convey with the gray lines, but the only logical thing to me is a change of direction, i.e. design, on the glass. That design should be apparent looking through the water as well.

4. I don't think the design looks good on gray, and your gray lines wouldn't show up well with the heather gray texture.

Sorry to be long-winded, but this is why I truly don't understand the number of votes. It seems like 500+ people have voted based on idea alone, disregarding most of the design. And while this was a clever idea, there are even cleverer ideas with IMO much better executions that don't have nearly as many votes.

ansharp


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ansharp
ansharp wrote:3. The outline of the glass doesn't make sense. There is a gray line around the top left that doesn't continue behind the completely transparent water. Same with the gray line around the bottom (as I recall from memory since I'm not staring at it right now). I don't know what you are trying to convey with the gray lines, but the only logical thing to me is a change of direction, i.e. design, on the glass. That design should be apparent looking through the water as well.


I see a little better now at least what you were intending. It still doesn't work, but it doesn't matter. Just wanted to correct myself.

Aberrantic


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Aberrantic
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


To add to the posts...
Haxrox, I think that your explanation was very classy, but does not get me over my abhorrence of this shirt. As previously stated, the cup is off, it appears (maybe it just looks weird on my moniter) that the cup is less than half full, which destroys the relevance, the water looks like jelly to me, and bad jelly at that, and, while this is another one of those 'clever' things, I've actually seen ideas like this multiple times before (no, I'm not going to pull up an example as I do not have a photographic memory of the Internets, and frankly am not going to waste my time on that), in my opinion it looks dull and flat on heather grey, and, while I could possibly see this as a poster, I cannot imagine this turning out well on a t-shirt

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
Aberrantic wrote:
... (several critiques) ...
To add to the posts...
Haxrox, I think that your explanation was very classy, but does not get me over my abhorrence of this shirt.


I'm totally fine with abhorrence. If you thought I was the next Rembrandt, we'd be in trouble. I'm very aware of the logical flaws in the design - the liquid doesn't reach the top on the far side but it appears to on the near side, there's that weird gray line, it's not technically half full, etc. Just consider the fact that I never said the words "water" or "half" and you still knew what the design was about. I tried a bunch of different ways to execute this, and this was the best I could do without putting too much time into it. It looks weird without that gray line, and I figured there'd be plenty of blue shirts, and it was unappetizing on cranberry. But again, I'm no artist, and I was just hoping that others would value the design for the same reason I did.

ansharp, there's a gradient of tolerance for suspension of disbelief. You know very well that water molecules aren't comprised of monochrome atoms with facial features, but you were going for a cartoony feel. Some people vectorize a photo for extreme realism. My design is somewhere in between: flawed, but not enough to ruin the idea for everyone.

As for quality, sebing, it depends on what you're evaluating. If "quality" means, what sebing values in design (realism, long effort, palette, whatever), then this is clearly the scum of all designs. But by the very nature of this derby, quality DOES mean votes, because the contest defines quality as "the ability to appeal to the largest voting crowd". If you want a forum where people define quality as you do, a site where designs are printed on shirts and sold to the mass market for profit may not be your thing. Try deviantart, or, if you feel strongly about impressing your opinion of "quality" designs onto others, teach an art appreciation course. I really mean that; if you think you know a better way, meet people where they are and do your best to educate them.

If you have even a spare moment and are reading this in frustration, please ask yourself, "Why should everyone else like the same designs I do?" Articulate that reason to yourself, play devil's advocate with yourself, figure out why you get to be the final authority on a design's universal appeal.

Please, keep your criticism coming, especially after thoughtfully considering what I'm going for. I'd love to get your votes in the future.

snarkygal


quality posts: 5 Private Messages snarkygal
haxrox wrote:I'm totally fine with abhorrence. If you thought I was the next Rembrandt, we'd be in trouble. I'm very aware of the logical flaws in the design - the liquid doesn't reach the top on the far side but it appears to on the near side, there's that weird gray line, it's not technically half full, etc. Just consider the fact that I never said the words "water" or "half" and you still knew what the design was about. I tried a bunch of different ways to execute this, and this was the best I could do without putting too much time into it. It looks weird without that gray line, and I figured there'd be plenty of blue shirts, and it was unappetizing on cranberry. But again, I'm no artist, and I was just hoping that others would value the design for the same reason I did.

ansharp, there's a gradient of tolerance for suspension of disbelief. You know very well that water molecules aren't comprised of monochrome atoms with facial features, but you were going for a cartoony feel. Some people vectorize a photo for extreme realism. My design is somewhere in between: flawed, but not enough to ruin the idea for everyone.

As for quality, sebing, it depends on what you're evaluating. If "quality" means, what sebing values in design (realism, long effort, palette, whatever), then this is clearly the scum of all designs. But by the very nature of this derby, quality DOES mean votes, because the contest defines quality as "the ability to appeal to the largest voting crowd". If you want a forum where people define quality as you do, a site where designs are printed on shirts and sold to the mass market for profit may not be your thing. Try deviantart, or, if you feel strongly about impressing your opinion of "quality" designs onto others, teach an art appreciation course. I really mean that; if you think you know a better way, meet people where they are and do your best to educate them.

If you have even a spare moment and are reading this in frustration, please ask yourself, "Why should everyone else like the same designs I do?" Articulate that reason to yourself, play devil's advocate with yourself, figure out why you get to be the final authority on a design's universal appeal.

Please, keep your criticism coming, especially after thoughtfully considering what I'm going for. I'd love to get your votes in the future.


I totally disagree with your statement that quality means votes.

Patchitect


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Patchitect
snarkygal wrote:I totally disagree with your statement that quality means votes.


Heres what i find immensely entertaining. And this isn't specifically a reply to you, Snarky, you just happen to be the shortest post related to the thread to reply to...

There are folks who at once, feel that their aesthetic sense is so superior to other peoples that their opinion as to "worth" or "value" of design carries more weight then others. These people pride themselves on being unique, or individual, or nonconformists, who rise above the common to appreciate only what they deem the best of the best, and expect others to agree with them, simply because they know better then the masses...

Then, being nonconformists, being the elite and they special few.. they seem to expect that the masses will think they way they do, be the way they are, and like and more importantly, VOTE for the things THEY think have value, forgetting for a moment that the very nature of a democratic process is to define what is "conformity". It doesn't matter if it means to conform to a good design, a cute design, a witty design, or a design that has "worth" or "value"; by its very definition, the designs that place highest are those that conform to the maximum number of voters, and therefore are "conformist" within the body of the derby voting body...

Quite frankly.. if you are going to be elite, or nonconformist.. you are going to be very frustrated in not getting the shirts you want, as your desires will have to conform to what everyone else wants first...

So go ahead.. be a nonconformist like everyone else....

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Patchitect wrote:(deleted post)


In this case, I have to agree. As far as "undeserving shirts" go, this is the most deserving head-scratcher I've EVER seen in the top 10. Which is a testament to the derby itself. I'd hate to see it print over some of the far better ideas out there, but I can understand its appeal, and really, there are some very nice things about it... the fact that the "half full" defies physics, the texture of the water... it's not half the shirt that others are, but it deserves a printing if it earns it, simple as it is.

It's when a shirt falls so far behind the quality of other entries (see Trompe L'Oeil's fog?) that the true "Top of the mornin'!" cries are apt to be heard. If all the shirts I disliked that won derbies were as simple and clever as the half full shirt, I'd be so much less vocal and venomous (and less apt to have people try to have unarmed wit-sparring with me). I don't expect to like every shirt that wins. I won't be buying anything in the fog. But I still stand behind their worthiness to be printed.I can understand why people would dislike this shirt. But it's really not the enemy. Not like at least one of the top 5 seems to be every other week.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
snarkygal wrote:I totally disagree with your statement that quality means votes.


That's fair. It'd be easier to discuss if we outright state our definition of quality when using the word. It's like someone's winning a race, but their running form is terrible - you can critique their form, but it's silly to say that they shouldn't be winning. Does high speed = good quality, or does good form = good quality?

bluchez


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bluchez
haxrox wrote:That's fair. It'd be easier to discuss if we outright state our definition of quality when using the word. It's like someone's winning a race, but their running form is terrible - you can critique their form, but it's silly to say that they shouldn't be winning. Does high speed = good quality, or does good form = good quality?


I think the issue is that popular vote != good quality. Please, consult other popular votes in our society, and tell me that the majority is always right?

Edit: (!= means not equal, for the less nerdy among us)

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
bluchez wrote:I do not believe this to be a flaw in my algorithms, but an indication that at least 60 votes were removed and added back to entries like your fish in the pocket in order to take advantage of this flaw in the system, and move the entries into the hotness when they SHOULD NOT have been.


I find it exceedingly funny (and a tad insulting) that you think people have the time or wherewithal to do this. First off, someone would have to have control over a block of votes. Second, that same someone would have to take them all away for 3 or so hours, then put them back. You'd see hotness entries that would be in then out pretty regularly. I don't recall the fish entry ever doing it- it was in the fog all but about 12 hours the entire week. So someone needs to work harder on their algo and stop accusing artists or voters of CHEATING or taking advantage of an algo they didn't write or know the flaws of. Or are you accusing the artists or fans of such in the top 5 (including this one) of messing with the hotness here too?

blahmcblah


quality posts: 5 Private Messages blahmcblah
snarkygal wrote:I totally disagree with your statement that quality means votes.

This is a different definition of quality. You should re-read what haxrox wrote. He said that in the derby, quality is the ability to get the most votes. Makes sense to me...


haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
Patchitect wrote:personally, the one thing that i find really disturbing... (orating) ... overly saccharine "Aww" or guffaw from the viewer, and do...
Let us rise up now and crush this abomination in its infancy, before it impoverishes the teeshirt revolution!
Oh.. and vote for hammy....


Patch, you had me at "saccharine ". I created this foul creature, I shall track its unworldly, aqueous form through valleys of vilification, up mountains of malice, through fogs of war if need be. And lo, when the beast faces again its creator, it shall tremble before the awesome might of my deft strokes, cowering under the gaze of my newly seeing eyes. This monstrosity which offends both physics and perspective will be rent asunder, torn from the fabric of this world as though it had never been! *Picks up pitchfork* Join me in first goading this hideous incarnation of offense into contention with real beings of glory, such beautifully rendered spirits as the Three Fish, the Lady of Water, the Yearling of the Loch, and the Ocean Leviathan. In the presence of such true beings of mastery, this glass-that-cannot-be shall falter, and there I will deliver the death stroke. Only stand by me, dear Patchitect, lest I fail, and aid me with a victory on this earth.

bluchez


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bluchez
SkekTek wrote:I find it exceedingly funny (and a tad insulting) that you think people have the time or wherewithal to do this. First off, someone would have to have control over a block of votes. Second, that same someone would have to take them all away for 3 or so hours, then put them back. You'd see hotness entries that would be in then out pretty regularly. I don't recall the fish entry ever doing it- it was in the fog all but about 12 hours the entire week. So someone needs to work harder on their algo and stop accusing artists or voters of CHEATING or taking advantage of an algo they didn't write or know the flaws of. Or are you accusing the artists or fans of such in the top 5 (including this one) of messing with the hotness here too?


The flaw DOES EXIST. The flaw IS TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. It takes two clicks per vote, and could be done 48 times per account in any given derby. I DO NOT find it hard to believe that it could be done for 4 accounts or so, 15 times during an entire week. I only singled out your entry because it had the biggest difference in hotness votes to actual votes, not for any type of specific intent or malicious attack. I was not intending to imply that the artist is the one behind all of this (or I would have been more then happy to state it), but probably the voting public itself. Please don't jump to conclusions. You can see my votes at the end of the trompe derby thread, and the final vote counts. Those vote totals were calculated ONLY on the votes that showed up in the hotness, not on any type of prediction algorithm. If you would like to talk about the quality of my algorithms, I would be remiss to not ask for your experience in the field, to make sure we can even have a discussion.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
bluchez wrote:I think the issue is that popular vote != good quality. Please, consult other popular votes in our society, and tell me that the majority is always right?

Edit: (!= means not equal, for the less nerdy among us)


I'm a programmer by trade, and a big fan of SDS. You have some serious db management skills.

It's not about the majority being right, it's about context. Quality is subjective unless evaluated within an agreed context. If I ask you to define quality as it pertains to a derby entry, you will give me a set of (hopefully) measurable criteria, like adherence to linear perspective. The purpose of this derby is to win, so one could argue that the criteria for quality is "winningness" within the context of the derby.

As for the majority being right about everything, who's to say it's not? If I say the majority is always right, and you say it's not, why does your value system trump mine? What does right mean, and why do you get to define it? That's a debate that takes us into religion and way out of the realm of these posts. I'd be happy to debate it sometime in a different medium; pm me if you want my e-mail or phone #. I may do the same; I wanted to hear your thoughts on some algorithm ideas for the fog votes.

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84

.

Aberrantic


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Aberrantic
haxrox wrote:Patch, you had me at "saccharine ". I created this foul creature, I shall track its unworldly, aqueous form through valleys of vilification, up mountains of malice, through fogs of war if need be. And lo, when the beast faces again its creator, it shall tremble before the awesome might of my deft strokes, cowering under the gaze of my newly seeing eyes. This monstrosity which offends both physics and perspective will be rent asunder, torn from the fabric of this world as though it had never been! *Picks up pitchfork* Join me in first goading this hideous incarnation of offense into contention with real beings of glory, such beautifully rendered spirits as the Three Fish, the Lady of Water, the Yearling of the Loch, and the Ocean Leviathan. In the presence of such true beings of mastery, this glass-that-cannot-be shall falter, and there I will deliver the death stroke. Only stand by me, dear Patchitect, lest I fail, and aid me with a victory on this earth.


Hahaha... this is gold. Haxrox, I'm not a fan of your designs, but damn if you don't have a great sense of humor.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
bluchez wrote:skektek / bluchez discussion about vote exploitation


I know I don't own this thread or anything, but could this discussion be relocated? Otherwise, I'm gonna have to jack up my votes so high that woot will be selling shirts with an awkward glass 7/15ths full of jelly on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

fablefire


quality posts: 37 Private Messages fablefire
haxrox wrote:I know I don't own this thread or anything, but could this discussion be relocated? Otherwise, I'm gonna have to jack up my votes so high that woot will be selling shirts with an awkward glass 7/15ths full of jelly on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.


Do eet. Can it be boysenberry jelly?


bluchez


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bluchez
haxrox wrote:I'm a programmer by trade, and a big fan of SDS. You have some serious db management skills.

It's not about the majority being right, it's about context. Quality is subjective unless evaluated within an agreed context. If I ask you to define quality as it pertains to a derby entry, you will give me a set of (hopefully) measurable criteria, like adherence to linear perspective. The purpose of this derby is to win, so one could argue that the criteria for quality is "winningness" within the context of the derby.

As for the majority being right about everything, who's to say it's not? If I say the majority is always right, and you say it's not, why does your value system trump mine? What does right mean, and why do you get to define it? That's a debate that takes us into religion and way out of the realm of these posts. I'd be happy to debate it sometime in a different medium; pm me if you want my e-mail or phone #. I may do the same; I wanted to hear your thoughts on some algorithm ideas for the fog votes.


Just to quickly clarify, I am not the one behind SDS (that is cwarrington (sp?)). I had created another hotness monitoring system to see what kind of fog estimates it could give, since I program statistical simulations for a living. I was quite disappointed at the corellation between hotness votes and actual votes, which can be seen quite obviously seen when looking at non-fogged entry votes and their hotness values (I mean blatantly seen, without any guesswork.)

As for the rest, of course, everything is subjective. The criterion for shirt quality can be debated, but I for one am repulsed by the idea that popular vote should be that basis. That would mean that some entries like the rubber ducky is of a higher quality construction then EVERY entry under it? Surely, no sane person would want this standard presented, and if this standard was accepted, no sane person would ever enter again, right? (Well, I might, because I don't consider my entries to be of quality.)

Bryan, nothing personal against your ducky at all, it is just simple, and surely you wouldn't argue it's of a higher quality then EVERY entry beneath it, as you have directly commented on several lower-ranking entries that I have seen.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
jamescho84 wrote:I think everyone needs to relax. ffs.
then again, i'm not the best person to be saying that.


Dude, you have the most experience on all fronts, for better or worse. You are definitely the best person to be saying that.

fablefire


quality posts: 37 Private Messages fablefire
haxrox wrote:Dude, you have the most experience on all fronts, for better or worse. You are definitely the best person to be saying that.


Maybe you missed the reference?


jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
fablefire wrote:Maybe you missed the reference?

thanks, I shouldn't of said anything at all. I won't open my mouth again.

fablefire


quality posts: 37 Private Messages fablefire
jamescho84 wrote:thanks, I shouldn't of said anything at all. I won't open my mouth again.


Aww. Why not? If everyone chilled we wouldn't have to worry about so much pancakes.


haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
bluchez wrote:Just to quickly clarify, I am not the one behind SDS (that is cwarrington (sp?)).
As for the rest, of course, everything is subjective. The criterion for shirt quality can be debated, but I for one am repulsed by the idea that popular vote should be that basis. That would mean that some entries like the rubber ducky is of a higher quality construction then EVERY entry under it? Surely, no sane person would want this standard presented, and if this standard was accepted, no sane person would ever enter again, right?


Ahh, cwarrington, eh? Thanks.

The boldened logical fallacy is known as "begging the question." You can't conclude that only insane people would do something and then use it as the basis of your argument. Still, I see what you're getting at; it doesn't abide by strict logic but we're just humans trying to get an idea across. Likewise, my design doesn't abide by strict artistic values, but I'm a human getting an idea across. I'll do my best to learn from your comments. As much as I enjoy a good debate, I can get too into it and start to argue from emotion. Thanks for the discussion, bluchez.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
jamescho84 wrote:thanks, I shouldn't of said anything at all. I won't open my mouth again.


fablefire wrote:Maybe you missed the reference?


Sorry, that was meant to be a compliment. Cho showed some real humility and class; he admitted a mistake quite publicly. If I can't learn from him, I must be pretty thick.

bluchez


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bluchez
haxrox wrote:Ahh, cwarrington, eh? Thanks.

The boldened logical fallacy is known as "begging the question." You can't conclude that only insane people would do something and then use it as the basis of your argument. Still, I see what you're getting at; it doesn't abide by strict logic but we're just humans trying to get an idea across. Likewise, my design doesn't abide by strict artistic values, but I'm a human getting an idea across. I'll do my best to learn from your comments. As much as I enjoy a good debate, I can get too into it and start to argue from emotion. Thanks for the discussion, bluchez.


Please notice that I never said one word against your design (or really offered any useful comments, Iol). I was just merely arguing the idea that popular vote should be a criterion for entry quality, based on the idea that would have to work both ways, indicating that all lower voted entries are of a lesser quality. I generally think my criticism of entries to be so invaluable that I will only offer it if asked, Iol. (And it has been waaay too long since college logic & critical thinking, but you said you are a programmer, so we could definitely have in depth discussions there.)

blahmcblah


quality posts: 5 Private Messages blahmcblah
haxrox wrote:Patch, you had me at "saccharine ". I created this foul creature, I shall track its unworldly, aqueous form through valleys of vilification, up mountains of malice, through fogs of war if need be. And lo, when the beast faces again its creator, it shall tremble before the awesome might of my deft strokes, cowering under the gaze of my newly seeing eyes. This monstrosity which offends both physics and perspective will be rent asunder, torn from the fabric of this world as though it had never been! *Picks up pitchfork* Join me in first goading this hideous incarnation of offense into contention with real beings of glory, such beautifully rendered spirits as the Three Fish, the Lady of Water, the Yearling of the Loch, and the Ocean Leviathan. In the presence of such true beings of mastery, this glass-that-cannot-be shall falter, and there I will deliver the death stroke. Only stand by me, dear Patchitect, lest I fail, and aid me with a victory on this earth.


Masterful. This might be the single greatest post in the history of the derby. To hell with the design, you've just earned my vote, along with my respect and admiration, based solely on the merit of this post. Thank you very much, and good luck.


FenStar


quality posts: 16 Private Messages FenStar
bluchez wrote:The flaw DOES EXIST. The flaw IS TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. It takes two clicks per vote, and could be done 48 times per account in any given derby. I DO NOT find it hard to believe that it could be done for 4 accounts or so, 15 times during an entire week. I only singled out your entry because it had the biggest difference in hotness votes to actual votes, not for any type of specific intent or malicious attack. I was not intending to imply that the artist is the one behind all of this (or I would have been more then happy to state it), but probably the voting public itself. Please don't jump to conclusions. You can see my votes at the end of the trompe derby thread, and the final vote counts. Those vote totals were calculated ONLY on the votes that showed up in the hotness, not on any type of prediction algorithm. If you would like to talk about the quality of my algorithms, I would be remiss to not ask for your experience in the field, to make sure we can even have a discussion.

Unless they changed the way the hotness is calculated, I don't think that will work. I tried that once (removing and then reinstating a vote) to see if it worked, and it didn't. I could have been mistaken though. I think your algorithm is screwed up, which is to bad, because it really shouldn't be that hard to make. I'm not saying that you are incompetent or anything, but unless you have some proof other than you "perfect" algorithm, I'm going to have to assume you are mistaken.

Still single, can't imagine why.

2thFairy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages 2thFairy

taerg si nef

really? do you have documentation of this?

FenStar


quality posts: 16 Private Messages FenStar
2thFairy wrote:taerg si nef

really? do you have documentation of this?

I'm afraid not, it was destroyed in an... erm... fire? Yea, that's it, It was destroyed in a fire, it was indisputable proof to by the way.

Still single, can't imagine why.

2thFairy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages 2thFairy
FenStar wrote:I'm afraid not, it was destroyed in an... erm... fire? Yea, that's it, It was destroyed in a fire, it was indisputable proof to by the way.


*giggles*

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
bluchez wrote:The flaw DOES EXIST. The flaw IS TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.

**snip**


Wow. Talk about taking this thread in a right-hand direction. All this because I was saying that any predictive algorhythm has a degree of error, and explaining the +1 phenomenon. Then accusations of stuffing boxes pops up and away we go. Let's not continue here, take it to the general derby thread. I'm not reliving the shock of being "60 votes ahead of shan" on stats, then losing by two votes. Next.

NICE GLASS...

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
SkekTek wrote:Wow. Talk about taking this thread... **discussion on the merits of venison vs. pork** ...
NICE GLASS...


Thanks. Nice sponge.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
bluchez wrote:Please notice that I never said one word against your design ...)


Oops, you're right. I lost track of what sparked our discourse. I just realized that you're the creator of the blu-ray vs harpooning diver shirt, so any advice you do have on design would be welcome anyhow.

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
haxrox wrote:Thanks. Nice sponge.


Yeah, it's unfortunate when you get knee deep in the threads and all of a sudden realize that the conversation you're having with other folks is getting posted under someone's design thread. I am sorry for that. And the stink you're getting on your design. It's clever, which is why it's gaining on the foggers.

I do think you're slowly creeping on the foggers. You might just get in there tomorrow morning.

bluchez


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bluchez
FenStar wrote:Unless they changed the way the hotness is calculated, I don't think that will work. I tried that once (removing and then reinstating a vote) to see if it worked, and it didn't. I could have been mistaken though. I think your algorithm is screwed up, which is to bad, because it really shouldn't be that hard to make. I'm not saying that you are incompetent or anything, but unless you have some proof other than you "perfect" algorithm, I'm going to have to assume you are mistaken.


Wow, clever, I caught what you did there. I'll have to watch you. Seriously, I don't care in the least. I think woot should look at their hotness algorithms, and that was my only purpose in bringing up the discussion. I have tested it multiple times, with accomplices, and am very confident that it does in fact work, but as always, I definitely could be wrong. I write statistical simulation software that keeps you safe while flying the friendly skies, so I hope that you might consider that I'm not as incompetent as you would like to think, otherwise, I would seriously recommend that you never fly again.

By the way, YES I have evidence, NO I won't be providing it, because woot doesn't need evidence to be convinced, and they are the only entity that I was trying to convince of anything. Evidence will merely point fingers, which is something I honestly try to not do.

Edit: Last post on the subject, srsly. Please forgive me haxrox for all of these posts in your thread, and for the hateful responses that seem to always follow my posts.

2thFairy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages 2thFairy
bluchez wrote: (stuff)

I write statistical simulation software that keeps you safe while flying the friendly skies, so I hope that you might consider that I'm not as incompetent as you would like to think, otherwise, I would seriously recommend that you never fly again.

(stuff)


Now THAT's funny!

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


The hotness vote fixing discussion- please, let's continue it here

Now, let's leave this thread to GlassMan

wootvan


quality posts: 67 Private Messages wootvan

Maybe a vote should be a commitment to purchase?

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


Looks like that tangent is over, so let's start a new one: who can come up with the best two word combination? Use your own definition of "best". I'll start:

EDIBLE PAVEMENT

dhmarr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dhmarr
knexfreak111 wrote:I'm not a fan of the two grey lines at the top and the bottom of the cup, and the shirt is a tad too simplistic for me to put down a ten on it. However, the design itself is well-made.


Yeah, where the heck did those two grey lines come from, and where do they go? Water is relatively transparent last I knew.

brizz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizz
Patchitect wrote:Heres what i find immensely entertaining. And this isn't specifically a reply to you, Snarky, you just happen to be the shortest post related to the thread to reply to...

There are folks who at once, feel that their aesthetic sense is so superior to other peoples that their opinion as to "worth" or "value" of design carries more weight then others. These people pride themselves on being unique, or individual, or nonconformists, who rise above the common to appreciate only what they deem the best of the best, and expect others to agree with them, simply because they know better then the masses...


and here's what i find so immensely entertaining: the equating of common sense and basic critical thinking skills with "superior" and "nonconformist."

that's rich. and very very sad.

artulo


quality posts: 13 Private Messages artulo
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


I think this design is quite clever, and reminds me of something I would do

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
artulo wrote:I think this design is quite clever, and reminds me of something I would do


Thanks, artulo. It reminds me of something I would do, too.

artulo


quality posts: 13 Private Messages artulo
haxrox wrote:Thanks, artulo. It reminds me of something I would do, too.


Like drinking a glass of water upside down to get rid of the hiccups? That's was I was thinking of.

FenStar


quality posts: 16 Private Messages FenStar
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist

Oups, sorry, I didn't realize that this posted here, on your thread. I'll move my trouble making somewhere else.

Still single, can't imagine why.

Patchitect


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Patchitect
haxrox wrote:Patch, you had me at "saccharine ". I created this foul creature, I shall track its unworldly, aqueous form through valleys of vilification, up mountains of malice, through fogs of war if need be. And lo, when the beast faces again its creator, it shall tremble before the awesome might of my deft strokes, cowering under the gaze of my newly seeing eyes. This monstrosity which offends both physics and perspective will be rent asunder, torn from the fabric of this world as though it had never been! *Picks up pitchfork* Join me in first goading this hideous incarnation of offense into contention with real beings of glory, such beautifully rendered spirits as the Three Fish, the Lady of Water, the Yearling of the Loch, and the Ocean Leviathan. In the presence of such true beings of mastery, this glass-that-cannot-be shall falter, and there I will deliver the death stroke. Only stand by me, dear Patchitect, lest I fail, and aid me with a victory on this earth.


Yeah.. sure - i dont have anything better to do.....
And glad you read it before it got deleted :P

Evil VolMods

Patchitect


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Patchitect
brizz wrote:and here's what i find so immensely entertaining: the equating of common sense and basic critical thinking skills with "superior" and "nonconformist."

that's rich. and very very sad.


I'm sorry, - did you think i was referring to you?

2thFairy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages 2thFairy
Patchitect wrote:
Evil VolMods


yep....

kylemittskus


quality posts: 259 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


Wow! There has been a coup!!!

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
kylemittskus wrote:Wow! There has been a coup!!!


Wow indeed. Thanks again, everyone. This number of votes is a huge compliment, in the fog or otherwise.

Patchitect


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Patchitect
kylemittskus wrote:Wow! There has been a coup!!!


That would be a "Cup"

dhouse87


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dhouse87
wootvan wrote:Maybe a vote should be a commitment to purchase?



I agree. This is rubbish. What a wasted fog spot, guarantee this shirt doesn't get anywhere near selling out, it looks cheap and as if somebody made it in paint.

You claim your "idea" is what appeals to people in this shirt. There is no idea. You've displaced the water that would be in the bottom of the cup. Your "idea" is in the caption, nowhere on the shirt.

Pathetic. I shiver to think of the day this shirt is on, should it somehow manage to get into the top 3, and newcomers come to the site for the first time. Will they return? Doubt it.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
dhouse87 wrote:I agree. This is rubbish...
You claim your "idea" is what appeals to people in this shirt...
Pathetic. I shiver to think of the day this shirt is on, should it somehow manage to get into the top 3, and newcomers come to the site for the first time. Will they return? Doubt it.


I'm just making an informed guess at what appeals to people about this. Why do you think the vote count is so high? I'm sure there's plenty of music, art, shows, etc. that many people think are rubbish but are still lucrative because of others' preferences. The vector file looks cleaner than the jpeg; if it does manage to sell, I'll send you a shirt to warm up those shivers.

brizz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizz
Patchitect wrote:I'm sorry, - did you think i was referring to you?


just an observation. you have repeatedly made this point...and it is inherently flawed.

venussuz


quality posts: 3 Private Messages venussuz
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


I saw the other entries, thought, hmm... nice, pretty, whatever, but this one just does it for me. Maybe it's my intellectual side, but the design simply works. The colors and how the idea is represented don't matter to me nearly as much as the simple fact that it IS represented, showing the glass neither half empty nor half full. It could have red water and a black background and I'd still buy it.

Great design Hax - something different!

Ortrillian


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Ortrillian
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


You get my vote if for the only reason of pissing all these cry babies off. This is stupid, IT'S A SHIRT get over it. Go feed the homeless or something else constructive. I'll refer you to this story from News of the Weird on "Art"

Several Duke University campus organizations, including the Women's Center, the Student Health Center and the Women's Studies Department, sponsored a "Sex Workers Art Show" on Feb. 3, at which nearly nude "artists" danced for students and others while vulgarly criticizing America via acts such as a woman's pretending to eat excreted dollar bills and a man's kneeling with an American flag inserted in his rear end. Two years ago, Duke's men's lacrosse team was vilified by the Duke administration and faculty merely for hiring two female strippers for a party (from which emanated false charges of snuffleupagus and the eventual disbarment of the local district attorney). A university spokesman explained to a National Journal reporter that the recent show was acceptable because it was "art" and "social commentary," rather than male-bonding entertainment. [National Journal, 2-11-08; Raleigh News & Observer, 2-6-08]


fablefire


quality posts: 37 Private Messages fablefire

brizz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizz
Ortrillian wrote:You get my vote if for the only reason of pissing all these cry babies off. This is stupid, IT'S A SHIRT get over it. Go feed the homeless or something else constructive. I'll refer you to this story from News of the Weird on "Art"


so you'd rather reward a poor design to annoy people than reward a more deserving entry? it's an interesting and very sad world we live in.

Ortrillian


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Ortrillian
brizz wrote:so you'd rather reward a poor design to annoy people than reward a more deserving entry? it's an interesting and very sad world we live in.


I never said I didn't vote for shirts I liked more than this one. It is your OPINION that this shirt is "a poor design". Read that snip I quoted. Is that stuff those Duke people did art? I don't think so but apparently someone does. Stop harassing someone's design because YOU don't like it and would rather have someone else's design in the fog. The Derby is not suppose to be for professional artists it's meant for Joe Shmoe what has an idea for a shirt based on that weeks theme. They have other professional daily shirts they post. I refer you to this:

Who’s designing these t-shirts?
We’re constantly recruiting experienced, talented designers who don’t mind ruining their good name by being associated with us. Each day’s shirt description includes a little bit about that day’s artist, including links to their other work. If you like their stuff, you can check out what else they’re up to. Otherwise, some of our shirts will be designed by our in-house staff. Also, each Friday, Saturday, and Sunday we’ll sell the winning t-shirts from our weekly design Derby (more about that below).
Can I design a t-shirt for Shirt.Woot?
If you’re one of those experienced, talented t-shirt designers we were talking about, contact us at shirt@woot.com. Tell us about your previous design experience, and include some samples of your work. We will look at every submission, but unfortunately, we might not be able to respond to everyone. Your chances are much, much better if you don’t act like a total jerk.


and this:

What if I have an idea for a t-shirt, but no previous design experience?
The Derby is calling your name. That’s our weekly design competition, where users submit their own design ideas to a public vote, and we produce and sell the three most popular designs.


So what if you think his design is flawed, apparently there are 636 people atm that like it enough to vote for it anyway.

Are you going to complain to me over and over that my baby was born ugly? I think he is cute.

What about those designs a couple months ago that were clearly done by a child with crayons? I voted for those because I'm a nice person and I know that by voting for that kid's design it made them happy. Did you comment on them and tell them how one eye wasn't the same size as the other or that they colored outside of the line? Had your own kid colored outside of a line would you go after them and let others go after them over and over because you didn't think it was perfect?

I thought, by reading the above quotes posted by Woot, that the derby was for amateurs.

Y'all need to go by your mother's rule and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. THAT is why I voted for this shirt. I don't try to rip people down I try to lift them up unless they are acting like jerks like some of the people here.


AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Ortrillian wrote:So what if you think his design is flawed, apparently there are 636 people atm that like it enough to vote for it anyway.

Are you going to complain to me over and over that my baby was born ugly? I think he is cute.

What about those designs a couple months ago that were clearly done by a child with crayons? I voted for those because I'm a nice person and I know that by voting for that kid's design it made them happy. Did you comment on them and tell them how one eye wasn't the same size as the other or that they colored outside of the line? Had your own kid colored outside of a line would you go after them and let others go after them over and over because you didn't think it was perfect?

I thought, by reading the above quotes posted by Woot, that the derby was for amateurs.

Y'all need to go by your mother's rule and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. THAT is why I voted for this shirt. I don't try to rip people down I try to lift them up unless they are acting like jerks like some of the people here.


I'm quoting this, not to respond, but because I can't possibly say anything to make you look more foolish than this post does.

aceface7


quality posts: 0 Private Messages aceface7

I'm sorry, but the point of the derby isn't to give more credit than deserved to amateurs. that's silly. if an amateur has a good design, it will get voted on, right? thats the idea. not to get decent shirts printed over exquisite ones.

aceface7


quality posts: 0 Private Messages aceface7

just reviewing this thread i wanted to point something MAJOR out. haxrox mentioned a logical fallacy "begging the question," when the example he reffered to was actually "poisoning the well." begging the question is circular logic. take junior year english over.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox
aceface7 wrote:just reviewing this thread i wanted to point something MAJOR out. haxrox mentioned a logical fallacy "begging the question," when the example he reffered to was actually "poisoning the well." begging the question is circular logic. take junior year english over.


"Surely, no sane person would want this standard presented, and if this standard was accepted, no sane person would ever enter again, right?"

1. p->q
2. p
3. therefore, q

1. If this standard were presented, no sane person would want it
2. Suppose this standard is accepted
3. No sane person ever enters again

You could arrange this as a "poisoning the well" statement, but bluchez didn't say the idea is bad because insane people like it. Your education system must have better priorities than mine; sadly, I didn't learn any good logic in school until college.

sebing


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sebing
Re: optimist, pessimist, or physicist


I really really really hope this places 3rd and gets printed. it's just what woot needs to change how the derby works. Perhaps something as idiotic as this shirt will finally convince them to take a different approach much like that at Threadless and every other shirt site. You just can't let the public decide things...they will fail you every time.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox

Thanks venussuz! Glad to have your support, Ortillian. Mehron, Brizz, Aceface, fablefire, thanks for adding your thoughts and explanations. Sebing, I love you. I know you think the general public is a moron, but even when they hate you back, even when they say mean things like "you're part of the public too!", I'll be your friend.

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox

Home stretch! Thanks for all the support; I can't imagine how the real artists deal with this kind of nervous anticipation every week.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
sebing wrote:I really really really hope this places 3rd and gets printed. it's just what woot needs to change how the derby works. Perhaps something as idiotic as this shirt will finally convince them to take a different approach much like that at Threadless and every other shirt site. You just can't let the public decide things...they will fail you every time.


I SOOOOO Disagree with you about the derby.
The public gets to decide, since the public does the shopping. This is a simple design, and many people like it because it doesn't require a perfect body to be able to wear it. Remember, woot is the company that sells 3XL and WXL shirts. Those of us who buy those sizes have different needs than the Threadless crowd.

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
haxrox wrote:Home stretch! Thanks for all the support; I can't imagine how the real artists deal with this kind of nervous anticipation every week.


Let's see... there's gin, rum, vodka, etc...

Amach06


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Amach06
sebing wrote:I really really really hope this places 3rd and gets printed. it's just what woot needs to change how the derby works. Perhaps something as idiotic as this shirt will finally convince them to take a different approach much like that at Threadless and every other shirt site. You just can't let the public decide things...they will fail you every time.


Totally agree with you. Not to be mean or anything. But the others shirts are much better than this one.This one looks like it took 30 mins. Sorry.

Well there is always next year....

AnandaRyan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AnandaRyan
SkekTek wrote:Let's see... there's gin, rum, vodka, etc...


real artists indeed...I can't believe this shirt is in the fog. Totally disappointing, especially because there are so many badass shirts in the derby this time. What a joke.

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