Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Uh oh, here come your designs to crush everyone's dreams, heh- I will be shocked if you don't get (at least) one print out of this double-take. Shocked, I tell you. (GL)

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I was sad when this one didn't make it last time. Good luck!

Loved this one so much.
Go, fable, go!

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I really want to buy this one for the wife! Please win!

LOL I must have this!

This is one of the first shirts I noticed when I came to shirt.woot! I joined during the exercise derby.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

okay, can someone explain to me where the quick brown fox phrase comes from and why it is so popular? i simply don't get it, that's all.

dangurous wrote:okay, can someone explain to me where the quick brown fox phrase comes from and why it is so popular? i simply don't get it, that's all.

The full phrase is "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"
It uses all the letters in the english alphabet.

byrbwr wrote:it's a frickin fox and a dog. and it's in the fog. thanks a lot you stupid voters.

But it's cute and quasi-anime and completely lacks artistry. It's perfect!

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I understand the draw of simplicity, especially in something like a t-shirt... but this hurts my head. Do people really like cute animals on shirts that much? And why come to Woot for that? Even if you particularly like the artist, why not one of their other designs that seem to me to offer a lot more? I don't mind having cute designs win, I just wish they didn't tend to take multiple printing spots every week.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

GET A JOB YOU LAZY DOG

Lazarpandar wrote:GET A JOB YOU LAZY DOG

Get a clue. It's a puppy, yellow labrador puppy. D'oh.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Given how many really creative designs are in the derby this time, this is really disappointing...

mrwednesday wrote:Given how many really creative designs are in the derby this time, this is really disappointing...

ITA. And it's quite obvious why it's doing so well.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Why the hell was this given an honorable mention? It's not even as detailed and Ramy's and Seki's anime junk. Get it out of the fog.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

...but...the fox isnt...brown...

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I guess there's no point in me ever putting Pica Republic up anywhere.

ste7enl wrote:...but...the fox isnt...brown...

Think again dude. When a shirt like this is fogged, anything is possible, including the color orange actually being brown.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

yes, people really do like cute animals on shirts that much...i want one!

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I'd buy one for my dad but I don't think they make a shirt big enough (Yes, he's a big guy). Do they make XXXL? I'd check on today's shirt but alas, it is sold out.

wonderandawe wrote:I'd buy one for my dad but I don't think they make a shirt big enough (Yes, he's a big guy). Do they make XXXL? I'd check on today's shirt but alas, it is sold out.

Ok. I am apparently not that observant. They list the sizes on the main page and they DO make an 3X size. Guess I am in for one if it wins.

AliCarMal wrote:The full phrase is "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"
It uses all the letters in the english alphabet.

Thanks for that. You should get a quality post for it. I didn't get this design in the least but was too embarrassed to ask what in the world the point of it was. Guess I'm not too embarrassed to admit it now that I know what it means. You see - knowledge IS power.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I shall always detest this shirt... Hated it the first time around, and even more now that it's seemingly in first. It's just stupid, even with the phrase... Glad to see a lot of the commenters feel the same way though at least.

Lazarpandar wrote:GET A JOB YOU LAZY DOG

hahahahaha, too funny

ramyb wrote:Uh oh, here come your designs to crush everyone's dreams, heh- I will be shocked if you don't get (at least) one print out of this double-take. Shocked, I tell you. (GL)

I know! You're so psychic, Ramy! This picture is so good XD

I'm so glad this is winning. It proves people really love this cuteness! After all, you can't be cheating if someone else doing your same style wins! You wouldn't cheat for someone else! lolol!

Ugh, what is wrong with shirt.woot nowadays.

Shirt.woot now = cuteanimeshirts.woot.

:'(

mixer23 wrote:I shall always detest this shirt... Hated it the first time around, and even more now that it's seemingly in first. It's just stupid, even with the phrase... Glad to see a lot of the commenters feel the same way though at least.

Very clever interpretation of the exercise theme as far as I'm concerned and brilliant in it's simplicity. The first thought that entered my head when I saw it 'n' many derbies ago was monosyllabic and downright rude, kinda like my way of acknowledging a potential winner. It's a neat trick to produce something as simple as this that still get's the message across so effectively. Furthermore, it's both cute and funny. So I'd have to say:"Well done to the designer!" Amen, huh?

Where is Adder's whining? I need to rip someone apart for being a crybaby.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I'm still angry the fox isn't brown.

ste7enl wrote:I'm still angry the fox isn't brown.

It probably is brown to her. Kinda like how purple shows up pink. XD

soyokazefuhen wrote:It probably is brown to her. Kinda like how purple shows up pink. XD

No. Incorrect. The odds of the hypothetical brown shade used showing up as orange, the most common fox color used, are 9999999999999999 to 1 against.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I know...why don't we just have an "Inspired by Ramyb/Seki" derby, after which anime/beady eyes/pointy legs are forever banned? Those who really like the stuff can buy to their heart's content, and the rest of us will suffer quietly for a week, knowing we'll never have to look at it again.

picasserole wrote:Very clever interpretation of the exercise theme as far as I'm concerned and brilliant in it's simplicity. The first thought that entered my head when I saw it 'n' many derbies ago was monosyllabic and downright rude, kinda like my way of acknowledging a potential winner. It's a neat trick to produce something as simple as this that still get's the message across so effectively. Furthermore, it's both cute and funny. So I'd have to say:"Well done to the designer!" Amen, huh?

Or, actually, poorly executed as nearly anyone who sees you wearing it, wouldn't get it. Heck, over half of the people on here didn't get it. It's a cutsie kid's shirt, and that is all. I've got absolutely nothing agaisnt cute either, I own some shirts that are "cute". But this is over the line... Alas, I thought it was off topic from the exercise theme. It's like fable said, "hey, I'll throw in some armbands and call it a day.". And, where's the fourth leg? It looks hurried through. Nothing against fable either, I own "You Have To Try This Guys".

mixer23 wrote:Or, actually, poorly executed as nearly anyone who sees you wearing it, wouldn't get it. Heck, over half of the people on here didn't get it. It's a cutsie kid's shirt, and that is all. I've got absolutely nothing agaisnt cute either, I own some shirts that are "cute". But this is over the line... Alas, I thought it was off topic from the exercise theme. It's like fable said, "hey, I'll throw in some armbands and call it a day.". And, where's the fourth leg? It looks hurried through. Nothing against fable either, I own "You Have To Try This Guys".

Correction. 0 people would get this without the title because the fox is orange.

ste7enl wrote:Correction. 0 people would get this without the title because the fox is orange.

Heh, I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out the other flaw that I forgot about

It's really annoying to see some amazing designs go to waste while a simple, boring dog and fox is in the fog. Do we have a community of children voting now?

mixer23 wrote:Or, actually, poorly executed as nearly anyone who sees you wearing it, wouldn't get it. Heck, over half of the people on here didn't get it. It's a cutsie kid's shirt, and that is all. I've got absolutely nothing agaisnt cute either, I own some shirts that are "cute". But this is over the line... Alas, I thought it was off topic from the exercise theme. It's like fable said, "hey, I'll throw in some armbands and call it a day.". And, where's the fourth leg? It looks hurried through. Nothing against fable either, I own "You Have To Try This Guys".

Agreed. "You Have To Try This, Guys" shows some Monty Python inspired humor and genuine creativity. This just shows that someone took a children's book illustration and put it on a shirt to win $1,000. I can't blame fablefire for this since I like money too, but voting for this basically says "I don't value originality." Maybe look at some of Edgar's designs and ask if this really should be printed over those.

temporaryescape wrote:It's really annoying to see some amazing designs go to waste while a simple, boring dog and fox is in the fog. Do we have a community of children voting now?

A community of anime children perhaps? Or just a few clever ones? I don't know.

SquirtleMyJigglypuff wrote:I know! You're so psychic, Ramy! This picture is so good XD

I'm so glad this is winning. It proves people really love this cuteness! After all, you can't be cheating if someone else doing your same style wins! You wouldn't cheat for someone else! lolol!

Are you being facetious or are you just an rocket scientist? I can't tell, but I sincerely hope it's the first.

While I definitely understood the allusion the first time I saw this shirt in the exercise derby, I didn't feel this design to really stand out. I do appreciate humor, but this design lacks creativity, and I don't find it wearable.

There are plenty of other designs in this derby that have a much better place in the fog; I just can't my wrap my mind around the allure to simple, cutesy designs in a sea of original and creative art.

I wish no offense to the designer, I just feel this design is hardly comparable to the likes of "Sea of Dreams" or "Inspired by: Monk" or other great submissions in this race.

I can only hope to see more sensible voting throughout next week.

lol eleetists get what they dserve
really tho has anyone ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? xD

Lazarpandar wrote:lol eleetists get what they dserve
really tho has anyone ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? xD

So I guess an "eleetist" is someone who can write a coherent sentence? I now understand why designs like this win.

itoaseik wrote:So I guess an "eleetist" is someone who can write a coherent sentence? I now understand why designs like this win.

I was thinking at first it was some cunning play on 'leet' (like, post-ironic, or something), but then the second sentence made absolutely no sense, so I guess not.

(seriously, usually one can work out what something a little bit incoherent is meant to be saying, but I'm really lost on that one)

edit: rather reminds me of this, actually

theraccoon wrote:
edit: rather reminds me of this, actually

That was pretty funny. The punchline really brings it together. I think more of that gobbledegook made sense than that earlier post, though.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Horrifying placement if you have a chest.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

laem
I agree its cute but dang... off ALL the entries this is in the fog?!?!
Almost all the ones in the fog are "cutesy" =\
And I agree, just looking at it... one would have NO idea what it's talking about since the the fox is brown...and wearing sweatbands??? lol

Demonbuttercup wrote:laem
I agree its cute but dang... off ALL the entries this is in the fog?!?!
Almost all the ones in the fog are "cutesy" =\
And I agree, just looking at it... one would have NO idea what it's talking about since the the fox is brown...and wearing sweatbands??? lol

C'mon, a fox jumping over a reclining dog and zip-all else to distract you. How much easier could it be to figure out?

eHalcyon wrote:I guess there's no point in me ever putting Pica Republic up anywhere.

Which is too bad because pica republic was superior to this in almost every way. I quite liked that one and was disappointed that it never printed.

re: the quick brown fox

I have to have this shirt. Please woot! it.

itoaseik wrote:I understand the draw of simplicity, especially in something like a t-shirt... but this hurts my head. Do people really like cute animals on shirts that much? And why come to Woot for that? Even if you particularly like the artist, why not one of their other designs that seem to me to offer a lot more? I don't mind having cute designs win, I just wish they didn't tend to take multiple printing spots every week.

Ewww...shut up.

itoaseik wrote:So I guess an "eleetist" is someone who can write a coherent sentence? I now understand why designs like this win.

wat

Lazarpandar wrote:lol eleetists get what they dserve
really tho has anyone ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? xD

But then who was phone?

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

This is such a stupid design. No normal person would conceivably get it without being directly told.

that is just terrible.
oh, and this
http://www.threadless.com/submission/183428

AliCarMal wrote:The full phrase is "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"
It uses all the letters in the english alphabet.

it was often used in typing classes from as well from what I understand.

re: the quick brown fox

I have a feeling that a lot of people are voting for this just because other people voted for it... and the cycle continues until it's in the fog... and then more people keep voting for it because they think that if it's in the fog it must be good...

what a disgrace. -__-

ste7enl wrote:I'm still angry the fox isn't brown.

i was thinking the same thing at first, but imagine it brown, would you be able to tell its a fox? I think the stereotypical orange color used for foxes tells us what it is.

sulcath wrote:that is just terrible.
oh, and this
http://www.threadless.com/submission/183428

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

No offense man but this is in the same realm of obligatory cute bs as Ramy. Wanna see some ART.

theciscokiddd wrote:Ugh, what is wrong with shirt.woot nowadays.

Shirt.woot now = cuteanimeshirts.woot.

:'(

I concur. You, sir, have keen powers of observation.

Now we must think of what we can do to make this idiocy end.

I really like this one. I love the head and arm bands, showing how "quick" the fox is. Good luck, Fable!

JCPenelope87 wrote:I have a feeling that a lot of people are voting for this just because other people voted for it... and the cycle continues until it's in the fog... and then more people keep voting for it because they think that if it's in the fog it must be good...

what a disgrace. -__-

Um...care to provide analysis of how this would be any different if non-cute designs were in the fog? (Protip: It wouldn't, you just wouldn't complain about it.)

That said, I'm curious why the major hang-up is the fox's color or its depiction of being quick when I take the most issue with not buying a sleeping dog as lazy. *shrug*

Also, seeing the submission date on that Threadless entry, methinks if this wasn't rejected the first time around, it won't be this time.

Kex wrote:i was thinking the same thing at first, but imagine it brown, would you be able to tell its a fox? I think the stereotypical orange color used for foxes tells us what it is.

http://www.threadless.com/product/424/rand_enter

3 years ago that worked great, and it was brown.

HeartlineTwist wrote:Um...care to provide analysis of how this would be any different if non-cute designs were in the fog? (Protip: It wouldn't, you just wouldn't complain about it.)

Actually, I don't think it'd be any different. People just follow crowds whether or not the product is "cute." I don't think the shirt is a disgrace, because it's not the artist's fault that a lot of people are just voting for the heck of it. I just think it's sad that some voters don't care to take a look at other designs more deeply.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Guys, you are not getting this shirt at all.

I hate "cutesy, anime animals" MORE than the next person.

But yet, I think this shirt is amazing. I would buy this in a heartbeat.

It's called simplicity. I like the simple pun, with the simplistic design. It's great.

re: the quick brown fox

this fox is orange...

eHalcyon wrote:I guess there's no point in me ever putting Pica Republic up anywhere.

I loved that fox! I was really hoping to get that yellow shirt with the fox in the sun, way back then.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I'm usually staunchly pro-Fable, but this design isn't one of her best. I'm kind of sad to see it doing so well. 'Death Has Cooties' is pretty much infinitely superior.

The mentally ill orange fox with three legs jumps over the sleeping yellow dog... (and still nobody cares)

hajile wrote:Guys, you are not getting this shirt at all.

I hate "cutesy, anime animals" MORE than the next person.

But yet, I think this shirt is amazing. I would buy this in a heartbeat.

It's called simplicity. I like the simple pun, with the simplistic design. It's great.

The problem with the simple pun is that there are enough issues with it to fudge up the meaning.

I don't think this is an issue of anyone "not getting the shirt."

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Compared to all the other entries, this is ridiculous. It's... it's actually making me angry o_O

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I think this is a really clever idea. I just wish the art wasn't so, well, boring. It's cute and has a lot of potential, but I don't know if I'd want to shell out 10 bucks for a shirt with art I could draw myself...

who let fablefire back in here? -shakes head and hits the tattle button since it's the same design as on threadless-

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

although i wouldn't personally buy this i know several calligraphers in the sca that would. plus anyone that is into typography would find it neat.

byrbwr wrote:it's a frickin fox and a dog. and it's in the fog. thanks a lot you stupid voters.

that's what im thinking

byrbwr wrote:who let fablefire back in here? -shakes head and hits the tattle button since it's the same design as on threadless-

Once again, I really doubt this is gonna fall now if it was in its derby. I mean, it got an HM just to be here in the first place. So, don't get your hopes up, especially since ALL of these shirts are predicated on a similar premise, so you can't really argue that this concept was stolen. And they're all quite different, to be honest.

byrbwr wrote:it's a frickin fox and a dog. and it's in the fog. thanks a lot you stupid voters.

Translation: WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

this design is boring. either i'm a complete rocket scientist, or there is absolutely no meaning to this shirt. so what? a fox jumps over a puppy dog. whats the big deal?

there are plenty of other shirts in this derby that should be in the top 4.

the design is cute and cuddly. try for childrens' clothing brand.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

That's an orange fox. Whats the deal with cute voters?

Hmm. First comment on shirt.woot for me.

A few things that should be clarified for all of you whiners who have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to add.

1. The original version of the text this alludes to read "the quick fox jumps over the lazy brown dog" because foxes, generally, are not brown.

2. That said, for those who are computer literate enough to use Microsoft word you should have come across this at some point as it is one of the most widely used phrases in the technological 'bubble' having been used for typesetting since the nineteenth century. (Almost as used as 'lorem ipsum').

3. Animal physiology differs from that of humans, so in respect to the forth leg the design seems dead on when taking into account perspective. A fox's legs would splay a bit when jumping, thus putting that forth leg just beyond sight. Also take in the fact that THIS IS A CARTOON DEPICTION. Get over yourselves folks.

4.It's a matter of personal preference on if you like 'cute' or not. The majority apparently do, so learn to deal with it. Democracy is double-plus good, comrades.

Now, while I may not think this is the BEST shirt out there I respect the fact that others do and I congratulate the artist for having made it this far. Personally I find it to be a tad over-done (the quick fox bit), but it's worked thus far.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I prefer the threadless version.

shhhhh (http://www.threadless.com//product/424/zoom.gif)

saintnicks wrote:I prefer the threadless version.

shhhhh (http://www.threadless.com//product/424/zoom.gif)

that is because it has a concept. while this does not. the other takes the phrase, common in typography, and makes it typographical. this just has two desu animals in a well-known juxtaposition.

You'll also notice that in both that and the other threadless sub mentioned, the fox is brown, yet clearly vulpine. If THIS fox was brown, it'd be a cat or a dog or something. But that's because this fox has no fox features except coloration. Again, because it's desu.

But Ramy says Fable will fog, and with he and his girlfriend racking up zero HMs this round, it should be not at all suspicious that clone-work is winning. Especially since before the twins, fable had only printed with exactly one shiny kawaii piece. So clearly, this is exactly what always happens, and not at all reason for questioning.

byrbwr wrote:it's a frickin fox and a dog. and it's in the fog. thanks a lot you stupid voters.

You apparently have a mind, I love you.

mrwednesday wrote:Given how many really creative designs are in the derby this time, this is really disappointing...

YES!!!

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Not for me, but I can see the appeal of this shirt. A cute, economically drawn version of the classic pangram - I think this one comes down to a question of style. If you like this style of drawing chances are you like this, and if you don't, well, you know.

I expect this will print and sell a buttload.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I don't understand why this design get so many votes. It's boring.

Karyuu wrote:Compared to all the other entries, this is ridiculous. It's... it's actually making me angry o_O

Yeah! I clicked the thumbnail expecting more to it since it was in the fog, and I'm thoroughly disappointed.

saintnicks wrote:I prefer the threadless version.

shhhhh (http://www.threadless.com//product/424/zoom.gif)

So not only is it laem...Its also un-original...

If this prints im going to go kick a fox and a dog

re: the quick brown fox

such a nice design and so much cute ness i want it!

hastethechariot wrote:So not only is it laem...Its also un-original...

If this prints im going to go kick a fox and a dog

Eh...not quite. It's a drawing based on a common phrase. I don't believe anyone formally owns the phrase, and all of the various similar designs really only share the use of the phrase and nothing else.

That said, it's not even that I don't like the style. I think the style has its purposes, and I will occasionally buy because of this, but this style in this design just doesn't strike me. It's boring to look at.

Finally, complaining is silly. We now have TWO non-cute designs in the fog, with quite a few hanging around just outside of it.

the phrase can also be "the quick red fox jumps over the lazy brown dog." anyway that's not the point. we can't all like everything...but I spend 99% of my time in class writing this phrase over and over, so I LIKE THIS ONE! definitely buying one when it wins.

AdderXYU wrote:that is because it has a concept. while this does not. the other takes the phrase, common in typography, and makes it typographical. this just has two desu animals in a well-known juxtaposition.

You'll also notice that in both that and the other threadless sub mentioned, the fox is brown, yet clearly vulpine. If THIS fox was brown, it'd be a cat or a dog or something. But that's because this fox has no fox features except coloration. Again, because it's desu.

But Ramy says Fable will fog, and with he and his girlfriend racking up zero HMs this round, it should be not at all suspicious that clone-work is winning. Especially since before the twins, fable had only printed with exactly one shiny kawaii piece. So clearly, this is exactly what always happens, and not at all reason for questioning.

Translation: WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Also, Adder apparently cannot count, but I somehow believe that numbers are far beyond her comprehension. I can think of three.

AdderXYU wrote:
But Ramy says Fable will fog, and with he and his girlfriend racking up zero HMs this round, it should be not at all suspicious that clone-work is winning. Especially since before the twins, fable had only printed with exactly one shiny kawaii piece. So clearly, this is exactly what always happens, and not at all reason for questioning.

A sincere welcome back. Yes, Ramy and his g/f are extremely psychic. On April 30, just before the derby seki wrote:

I'm glad this week is double take, I have so much stuff to do that I was considering sitting out anyway.

I predict at least one fablefire win.

At least.

huh, this is weird. no ramby/sekiyoki and now we have two fablefire designs in the fog and they look surprisingly like what ramby/sekyoki draws. hmmmmm. fablefire = another alias? i think so.

soyokazefuhen wrote:Translation: WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Also, Adder apparently cannot count, but I somehow believe that numbers are far beyond her comprehension. I can think of three.

Creative thought process has elements, but it not pure shiny. I'd argue that Sudden Death isn't shiny at all. And since Plan B and Zelda were made of clip-art and lifted concepts respectively, that leaves Scurvy as the sole item of this style to get a print prior to the rise of the Otaku.

Even so, with five prints in 52 weeks, even if ALL of them were shiny desu, it would still be out of the ordinary that that style would win for her.

HeartlineTwist wrote:Eh...not quite. It's a drawing based on a common phrase. I don't believe anyone formally owns the phrase, and all of the various similar designs really only share the use of the phrase and nothing else.

I don't really see how you are trying to argue against this being unoriginal...

The only concept of the design is to literally depict a phrase, and that phrase has already been literally depicted at least two times before in the same medium. Therefore, I would conclude that recreating the same concept yet again in the same medium is, yes, unoriginal.

Stormink wrote:I don't really see how you are trying to argue against this being unoriginal...

The only concept of the design is to literally depict a phrase, and that phrase has already been literally depicted at least two times before in the same medium. Therefore, I would conclude that recreating the same concept yet again in the same medium is, yes, unoriginal.

More than that, it's a trite idea in a triter style. You can argue that it's not trite, but you can't argue that any of it is "original"

AdderXYU wrote:More than that, it's a trite idea in a triter style. You can argue that it's not trite, but you can't argue that any of it is "original"

I'm not arguing its originality. I'm saying that rejecting it on the basis of a typography design featuring the phrase and a drastically different artistic take on it in this particular case is different than having 50 entries that have steam-powered hearts behind portholes or the like that usually get struck down when rejections for "similar shirts exist" come down.

Although, once again, this shirt won't get rejected if it made it here in the first place.

I still consider this the worst of the three shirts, though.

Stormink wrote:I don't really see how you are trying to argue against this being unoriginal...

The only concept of the design is to literally depict a phrase, and that phrase has already been literally depicted at least two times before in the same medium. Therefore, I would conclude that recreating the same concept yet again in the same medium is, yes, unoriginal.

Holy guppy, what did you buy? Your color block finally changed... I've said enough about this shirt, everytime I think about it I get angry.

HeartlineTwist wrote:I'm not arguing its originality. I'm saying that rejecting it on the basis of a typography design featuring the phrase and a drastically different artistic take on it in this particular case is different than having 50 entries that have steam-powered hearts behind portholes or the like that usually get struck down when rejections for "similar shirts exist" come down.

Although, once again, this shirt won't get rejected if it made it here in the first place.

I still consider this the worst of the three shirts, though.

I consider it the worst of the 100 or so shirts, personally.

HeartlineTwist wrote:The problem with the simple pun is that there are enough issues with it to fudge up the meaning.

I don't think this is an issue of anyone "not getting the shirt."

People keep making it an issue though. And the dog is brown xD So it could be The quick fox jumps over the lazy brown dog (which is the main way I've heard it, but brown fox seems more popular)

And I've asked several people without letting them see the words if they got this shirt, and they got it right off the bat

Oh and my brother loved it, so I had to vote for it for him xD He's 3.

mixer23 wrote:Holy guppy, what did you buy? Your color block finally changed... I've said enough about this shirt, everytime I think about it I get angry.

Hah! Yes it has been long overdue... Have no fear though! It was not one of those guppy shirts printed recently...

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I am all for cute things. I loved that penguin and rabbit shirt, but this is just incomprehensible. On top of that, the fox is NOT brown! Why is this fogged? I rather see the egg one than this one.

Beffy wrote:People keep making it an issue though. And the dog is brown xD So it could be The quick fox jumps over the lazy brown dog (which is the main way I've heard it, but brown fox seems more popular)

And I've asked several people without letting them see the words if they got this shirt, and they got it right off the bat

Oh and my brother loved it, so I had to vote for it for him xD He's 3.

1) you could technically also say "the quick brown dog jumped over the lazy fox" or "The quick fox and brown lazy dog overjumped". But none of those things are the way most people have heard it.

2) just because people "get it" does not make it a good shirt. I "get" lots of things. It doesn't make them good. Just understandable.

3) When I was three, I liked everything. You're not very discerning at that age. Not voting for this will teach him an important lesson about determining value.

AdderXYU wrote:I consider it the worst of the 100 or so shirts, personally.

Read: I'm a whiny little hot tamale of a snob who can't handle that people actually like a shirt, even though I hate the design style.

Get over yourself. Row v. Wade went through, and that was probably the worst shirt ever printed on here. Where were your complaints on that?

Oh wait, I'll bet you thought that was clever, even though the concept was printed 3 other times on other sites.

soyokazefuhen wrote:Read: I'm a whiny little hot tamale of a snob who can't handle that people actually like a shirt, even though I hate the design style.

Get over yourself. Row v. Wade went through, and that was probably the worst shirt ever printed on here. Where were your complaints on that?

Oh wait, I'll bet you thought that was clever, even though the concept was printed 3 other times on other sites.

Oh...wow...

I highly recommend you go look at the entry and print thread for that shirt. I mean, Adder will bring down the Gigli (2003) storm on you, but...wow...

byrbwr wrote:huh, this is weird. no ramby/sekiyoki and now we have two fablefire designs in the fog and they look surprisingly like what ramby/sekyoki draws. hmmmmm. fablefire = another alias? i think so.

*gasp* You're right! It's cute, so it *must* be done by Ramy!

And you know what? I bet that bootsboots is secretly Ramy, too! Oh, and that Penguin that printed on Friday was pretty cute, too, so Cho must secretly be Ramy, too! Not to mention avhienda01, CaptTylorDSladek, capttylor34, deadfrog, and Robbie Lee!

...hold on a minute...I've gotten to the bottom of the conspiracy! shirt.woot is Ramy!

Tiemannl wrote:This is such a stupid design. No normal person would conceivably get it without being directly told.

I got it immediately and I don't think I'm abnormal. I also think it's clever and cute. Definitely gets my vote!

RadicalPrefect wrote:
...hold on a minute...I've gotten to the bottom of the conspiracy! shirt.woot is Ramy!

Superb.

HeartlineTwist wrote:Oh...wow...

I highly recommend you go look at the entry and print thread for that shirt. I mean, Adder will bring down the Gigli (2003) storm on you, but...wow...

It's not worth bringing the shitstorm on an otaku rocket scientist. I can't translate it into kanji, so they won't know what I'm saying anyway.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Baaa, sheep.

OK, I get that this is a kids shirt but it isn't even very good at that.

I envision many grandmothers and aunts buying this shirt for young boys who will subsequently put it in the closet and never wear it. Cutesy animals acting out a pangram - this is a bully target if I ever saw it.

To put it in context, this shirt is Ralphie's pink rabbit pajamas for the 2000s.

byrbwr wrote:it's a frickin fox and a dog. and it's in the fog. thanks a lot you stupid voters.

As we see not everyone has an appreciation or mastery of the English language. Better put, GG.

Montravant wrote:As we see not everyone has an appreciation or mastery of the English language. Better put, GG.

Most people who appreciate and mastered the english language appreciate it a bit further than a pangram. Unless you're saying that "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" is tantamount to To Kill a Mockingbird or The Sun Also Rises or Great Expectations.

Again, if someone was that interested in pangrams, they already own the Threadless tee. Almost assuredly. Because it has something the English Language facilitates and this tee lacks: creativity.

byrbwr wrote:huh, this is weird. no ramby/sekiyoki and now we have two fablefire designs in the fog and they look surprisingly like what ramby/sekyoki draws. hmmmmm. fablefire = another alias? i think so.

Actually, fablefire has been around a long time before those 2 showed up. She can do better art than this...she did this on purpose in response to the backlash against ramy/seki. What's really surprising is that Woot rewarded that with HM's.

No surprise that it's winning, though...it's filling the void left behind by the fact that ramy/seki don't have any designs in this double-take derby.

AdderXYU wrote:1) you could technically also say "the quick brown dog jumped over the lazy fox" or "The quick fox and brown lazy dog overjumped". But none of those things are the way most people have heard it.

2) just because people "get it" does not make it a good shirt. I "get" lots of things. It doesn't make them good. Just understandable.

3) When I was three, I liked everything. You're not very discerning at that age. Not voting for this will teach him an important lesson about determining value.

1. Why are you listing things?
2. I was just saying it's the way I've heard it around here. No need to jump all over me for talking about it.
3. People kept whining about how someone wouldn't get it, when it's very easy to get. I don't give a Gigli (2003) if you think it's a good shirt or not, that wasn't my point.
4. He's 3 years old, and was watching me. When he saw this shirt he immediately liked it, while he didn't like any of the others. Going back to the fact that he's three, you think he'd care whether I really voted for it or not? I simply thought it was cute that he liked it, and that the shirt was cute.

I suppose we're not allowed to have opinions on Woot any longer, unless of course it's against 'cutesy' shirts and/or ramy&seki. Right.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

You people need to stop whining about this design. It was a joke entry from fablefire in the first place. It's not her fault that everyone is voting for it now...it's not like the rest of the fog is any good. The only great shirts in the top 5 are Monk and Death Has Cooties.

Beffy wrote:

I suppose we're not allowed to have opinions on Woot any longer, unless of course it's against 'cutesy' shirts and/or ramy&seki. Right.

opinions are only as good as the information forming them. there have been a number of excellent reasons for not supporting this shirt throughout its thread. That it looks identical to the work of two users who spent the better part of a year getting into cheating controversies both proven and unproven elsewhere before coming to woot and following a similar pattern, with the most generic of shiny designs, is but icing on the failcake.

by comparison, the reasons to like it are as follows:

~ITS SO CUTE ^_^
~I KNOW THE REFERENCE! XD

I consider those to be weak reasons. Unless you starred in an Apple Jacks commercial in the 90s, "I just do" is a weak excuse. What sets it apart from anything else?

So yeah. If your opinion is "It's cute, so what", your opinion is not valid. There are hundreds of shirts on the web that are both cute AND artful. This is nothing you can't see on a million tables at whatever Anime Con you live closest to this summer. Or if Ramy's there, a million and fourteen.

elwayman02 wrote:You people need to stop whining about this design. It was a joke entry from fablefire in the first place. It's not her fault that everyone is voting for it now...it's not like the rest of the fog is any good. The only great shirts in the top 5 are Monk and Death Has Cooties.

If two shirts in the top 5 are great, then at least one shirt in the fog is "any good".

Not to debate whether you're right about quality or not. Simply to state you failed basic math.

re: the quick brown fox

Is it just me, or does this shirt *look* like a joke entry that was taken seriously?
It reminds me of the dog breathes steampunk entry from the steampunk derby that WAS a joke.

hasdgfas wrote:Is it just me, or does this shirt *look* like a joke entry that was taken seriously?
It reminds me of the dog breathes steampunk entry from the steampunk derby that WAS a joke.

Fable uses (though rarely wins with) this style often. Has since before the wonder twins (but again, only really won with it on her first print, which makes this conceptless success so strange). So either she makes joke entries often, or she seriously thought this was worth entering.

AdderXYU wrote:Fable uses (though rarely wins with) this style often. Has since before the wonder twins (but again, only really won with it on her first print, which makes this conceptless success so strange). So either she makes joke entries often, or she seriously thought this was worth entering.

This shirt is awesome! If you don't like it you obviously don't get it.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

This whole thread seems like a really long way of saying "people should only like things I like." I'm not a fan of this shirt, but I'm not going to get myself into a twist because other people do like it and are voting for it. Seriously. It's a t-shirt popularity contest, not anything life-or-death.

AdderXYU wrote:opinions are only as good as the information forming them. there have been a number of excellent reasons for not supporting this shirt throughout its thread. That it looks identical to the work of two users who spent the better part of a year getting into cheating controversies both proven and unproven elsewhere before coming to woot and following a similar pattern, with the most generic of shiny designs, is but icing on the failcake.

by comparison, the reasons to like it are as follows:

~ITS SO CUTE ^_^
~I KNOW THE REFERENCE! XD

I consider those to be weak reasons. Unless you starred in an Apple Jacks commercial in the 90s, "I just do" is a weak excuse. What sets it apart from anything else?

So yeah. If your opinion is "It's cute, so what", your opinion is not valid. There are hundreds of shirts on the web that are both cute AND artful. This is nothing you can't see on a million tables at whatever Anime Con you live closest to this summer. Or if Ramy's there, a million and fourteen.

What is a 'good' reason to like a shirt, then? Since obviously being able to just like a design isn't a good enough reason, what is one? And remember, art is subjective. What you think of as bad, is not someone else's bad. What you think is a terrible idea, isn't one to someone else. Simply saying 'You sux ur a terrible artist luls' isn't a good enough reason to discredit someone or their artwork so easily, because art is and always will be subjective.

What gives you the right to rag on everyone else's opinions when they don't agree with you?

If people want to vote for a design, then they will, plain and simple. Since you obviously hate Woot so much, and the winners of the derbies, why do you stay? Do you just like trolling everything?

ajg199 wrote:This shirt is awesome! If you don't like it you obviously don't get it.

This comment is so painfully dense that I have to presume it is a joke.

99% of the world GETS this shirt. What I DON'T get is how it is attractive or witty or stylish or anything that would cause someone to pay $10 for it.

Would you also buy a shirt of my very educated mother just serving us nine pizzas? One showing how the principal is your pal? I'm just wondering if you're just as enamored by mnemonics as you are pangrams.

Beffy wrote:What is a 'good' reason to like a shirt, then? Since obviously being able to just like a design isn't a good enough reason, what is one? And remember, art is subjective. What you think of as bad, is not someone else's bad. What you think is a terrible idea, isn't one to someone else. Simply saying 'You sux ur a terrible artist luls' isn't a good enough reason to discredit someone or their artwork so easily, because art is and always will be subjective.

What gives you the right to rag on everyone else's opinions when they don't agree with you?

If people want to vote for a design, then they will, plain and simple. Since you obviously hate Woot so much, and the winners of the derbies, why do you stay? Do you just like trolling everything?

Most people hate educators, and therefore presume educators are evil. But their job is to teach. They don't just go away because their students are too dense to understand fractions or the worth of poetry. They're all the more needed for it.

What's a good reason to like this shirt? That you need my aid doesn't really say much for it, does it? but I guess I'll try: because you're topless and freezing and homeless, and someone gave it to you. Otherwise, I really don't believe there is any good reason to like it other than pure selfish want. Which is foolish, because if you like the style, woot's put out a good 20 in the last couple months, and if you like the pangram, we've already linked to a much more creative and better executed representation.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Adder's Whining (you should get a copyright for that) seems to have no bounds.

People don't need a reason to like a design, and you certainly are not entitled to their opinion. All your arguments come down to is "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I don't like this design so everyone else must be wrong!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"



Get in, because you have no credibility with me.

AdderXYU wrote:
What's a good reason to like this shirt? That you need my aid doesn't really say much for it, does it? but I guess I'll try: because you're topless and freezing and homeless, and someone gave it to you. Otherwise, I really don't believe there is any good reason to like it other than pure selfish want. Which is foolish, because if you like the style, woot's put out a good 20 in the last couple months, and if you like the pangram, we've already linked to a much more creative and better executed representation.

It's foolish to like or want something? I'm not poor, nor do I live in some 3rd world country, so if I like someone and want it, I'll spend 10 bucks on it. I work for my money, and I'll send it the way I like. Do you only have 2 shirts? Because if you have more, then you are obviously selfish and greedy. I mean, you don't NEED those extra shirts, so why buy them?

We're not living in 1800s. People spend their money on luxuries and things they want. I have everything I need, and it's pointless to let my money rot, unless of course I'm saving up for something I need that is bigger. Which I'm not. Why do you always side-track posts, anyway? What does the differene between wanting and needing something have to do with whether I like or you don't like a shirt design?

And do you stop to think that perhaps I like this design more that other one? No, you don't because you think your opinion is the one and only truth.

soyokazefuhen wrote:Adder's Whining (you should get a copyright for that) seems to have no bounds.

People don't need a reason to like a design, and you certainly are not entitled to their opinion. All your arguments come down to is "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I don't like this design so everyone else must be wrong!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"



Get in, because you have no credibility with me.

Considering the fact that I DO have credibility as per most artists, large numbers of frequent posters, and even some people with ban abilities (not to mention being respected at times even by people who hate me other times), I couldn't really care less if i have credibility with some out-of-the-woodwork poster whose name I never saw until a couple certain users started winning.

I've given a number of reasons why this is not a good shirt. Give me one solid reason why this specific shirt IS.

And beffy, the difference is that I want good design to win, whether I want to own it or not, while you want something you want to win whether it's good design or not.

soyokazefuhen wrote:Adder's Whining (you should get a copyright for that) seems to have no bounds.

People don't need a reason to like a design, and you certainly are not entitled to their opinion. All your arguments come down to is "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I don't like this design so everyone else must be wrong!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"



Get in, because you have no credibility with me.

Adder is being a bit of a troll, but he has a point. This shirt shows no originality or effort whatsoever compared to the other designs available. Of course people have a right to vote for and wear it. However, don't be surprised when it draws the ire of people who see much more creative designs losing to this.

NO ONE will omgwin! to get this shirt if they are very familiar with the pangram. However, not everyone knows the expression that well, and there is nothing on the shirt to indicate that it is anything more than a simply-drawn fox and dog. Also, the argument that the fox should be brown fits here because the version of the pangram used for the title of the design says that the fox is brown.

Soyokazefuhen, you can't constantly respond with "Translation: WAAAAHH!!!" to everything and act morally superior at the same time. If you want to do the name-calling thing, you are no better than the worst flamers of this shirt.

AdderXYU wrote:
And beffy, the difference is that I want good design to win, whether I want to own it or not, while you want something you want to win whether it's good design or not.

That's idiotic. Why in the world would I want a design that I thought was 'bad' to win? If I vote for things I would most likely buy, which is what you're supposed to do.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

The artist is obviously showing how Firefox is a much better browser that IE. Obviously!

Beffy wrote:What is a 'good' reason to like a shirt, then?

Since Adder avoided this question, and instead answered one you didn't ask...I'll answer it for you.

The good reason to like a shirt is because he likes it. That's the only acceptable reason for him, it seems.

I accept that some people might not like this shirt. That's great...don't vote for it. But I like it. It's cute, and I like it a lot better than the one over at Threadless. Call me whatever names you want, I voted for it because I like it.

byrbwr wrote:huh, this is weird. no ramby/sekiyoki and now we have two fablefire designs in the fog and they look surprisingly like what ramby/sekyoki draws. hmmmmm. fablefire = another alias? i think so.

The biggest problem with your logic is that fablefire was submitting designs AND PRINTING well before ramby and sekiyoki showed up. She is talented enough to work several styles.

Perhaps you should go to shirtderbystats.com before you tell us your next theory.

RadicalPrefect wrote:Since Adder avoided this question, and instead answered one you didn't ask...I'll answer it for you.

The good reason to like a shirt is because he likes it. That's the only acceptable reason for him, it seems.

I accept that some people might not like this shirt. That's great...don't vote for it. But I like it. It's cute, and I like it a lot better than the one over at Threadless. Call me whatever names you want, I voted for it because I like it.

That was my thought as well. Adder seems to dodge a lot of questions. xD But I'm done arguing with him. If he wants to call people out for having an opinion, then by all means he can keep it up. Maybe he'll step out of line enough that Woot bans him, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

People here at woot just seem to want always find something to whine about it. Sometimes I just hate the interent

Beffy wrote:That was my thought as well. Adder seems to dodge a lot of questions. xD But I'm done arguing with him. If he wants to call people out for having an opinion, then by all means he can keep it up. Maybe he'll step out of line enough that Woot bans him, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

People here at woot just seem to want always find something to whine about it. Sometimes I just hate the interent

Come on, how can you expect Adder to address every post. The kawaii army has come out full force.

If you understand his point and still are not swayed, then de gustibus non disputandum and have fun with your cute dog and fox shirt. Why do you feel the need to censor him too, are you really that threatened by a different opinion?

PS While there is no arguing about taste, some things in art that are objective. For example, when someone says this is clever or original they are incorrect. When compared to other contemporary shirts with the same theme (see: the two prior threadless tshirts) this is decidedly not clever nor original (unless of course your threshold for clever starts at "Elmo says...")

camoor wrote:Come on, how can you expect Adder to address every post. The kawaii army has come out full force.

If you understand his point and still are not swayed, then de gustibus non disputandum and have fun with your cute dog and fox shirt. Why do you feel the need to censor him too, are you really that threatened by a different opinion?

If you bothered to read the thread, you'll see that Adder DID address the post. He simply addressed it incorrectly. The question Beffy asked was "what is a good reason to like a shirt?" whereas Adder answered "what is a good reason to like this shirt?". I'm sure it was an honest mistake, because I saw the latter as well when I read Beffy's post. I only read it again because that would have been a pretty stupid question to ask of Adder.

Beffy wrote:That's idiotic. Why in the world would I want a design that I thought was 'bad' to win? If I vote for things I would most likely buy, which is what you're supposed to do.

If my friend was running for Mayor against a better candidate, guess who I'd vote for.

I believe winning should mean something more than "I like it." If you win at a sport, it is because you did better than the competition, not because more people wanted you to win. You win based on YOUR strengths, or else THEIR deficiencies. And if the stuff that wins is consistently good, it will alter the customer base, which will alter the voting, and mean still more good will win. It means more creative artists will stick around, because they know their A game will lead to profit, instead of coming fourth to someone's worst work. And in the end, that benefits me, and indeed the whole community, because the more good work I don't want makes it to print, the more those good artists create, and the sooner they make a new shirt someone WOULD want.

This isn't just about you. It's not a contest for you to get as many shirts as possible. It's a contest for designers to make money by creating wearable and creative designs. If you would really give $1000 to this shirt over any one of five randomly selected others, you might not be fit to judge.

eHalcyon wrote:If you bothered to read the thread, you'll see that Adder DID address the post. He simply addressed it incorrectly. The question Beffy asked was "what is a good reason to like a shirt?" whereas Adder answered "what is a good reason to like this shirt?". I'm sure it was an honest mistake, because I saw the latter as well when I read Beffy's post. I only read it again because that would have been a pretty stupid question to ask of Adder.

eHalcyon, in my short time on the Woot boards I have come to respect you for being one of the relatively few voices of evenness and reason on here, much more so than me. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I take it as an indication of just how badly this shirt "embrangles" that you defended Adder's criticisms, however slightly.

The source of complaints here is not that you like this shirt, but that you are voting for it, and therefore against all of the other more deserving designs. Especially due to the suspicion that some of those voting for these designs do so without even looking at many of the alternatives... anyway, Adder just did a pretty good job of explaining another part of it.

AdderXYU wrote:If my friend was running for Mayor against a better candidate, guess who I'd vote for.

I believe winning should mean something more than "I like it." If you win at a sport, it is because you did better than the competition, not because more people wanted you to win. You win based on YOUR strengths, or else THEIR deficiencies. And if the stuff that wins is consistently good, it will alter the customer base, which will alter the voting, and mean still more good will win. It means more creative artists will stick around, because they know their A game will lead to profit, instead of coming fourth to someone's worst work. And in the end, that benefits me, and indeed the whole community, because the more good work I don't want makes it to print, the more those good artists create, and the sooner they make a new shirt someone WOULD want.

This isn't just about you. It's not a contest for you to get as many shirts as possible. It's a contest for designers to make money by creating wearable and creative designs. If you would really give $1000 to this shirt over any one of five randomly selected others, you might not be fit to judge.

Adder, I don't often post on the threads, but I have consistently been following shirt.woot for over a year now, and let me tell you, I am your biggest fan.

re: the quick brown fox

The fox is orange...

re: the quick brown fox

The fox is orange...

eHalcyon wrote:If you bothered to read the thread, you'll see that Adder DID address the post. He simply addressed it incorrectly. The question Beffy asked was "what is a good reason to like a shirt?" whereas Adder answered "what is a good reason to like this shirt?". I'm sure it was an honest mistake, because I saw the latter as well when I read Beffy's post. I only read it again because that would have been a pretty stupid question to ask of Adder.

Since I clearly misread

When it comes right down to it, there are plenty of reasons TO like a shirt, and they are all personal. What is more true is that there are specific reasons to NOT like a shirt. When I'm scoring shirts, I ask myself a few questions:

~have I seen this anywhere before? In this case, yes, I have. I've seen the concept plenty, and I've seen the style about weekly here since December. From there I ask "is this better than what I've seen." There was a "Seven Ate Nine" joke on Threadless not too long ago up for scoring that was a great take on the idea. The seven and nine were in shadow, with the six cowering afraid in the corner. The execution and conceptualization took it above and beyond any other realization of the theme that I'd seen, and it was a tired, tired theme. This simply doesn't do anything new with tired material.

~how is it executed? With this, I generally go for style over cleanliness. when you look at Edgar's work, it's distinctly him... you can tell every line means something, and every line is intentional. If you go to Threadless and look up buko, you'll see a guy who is nearly flawless in his linework and his use of technique and how things sit on a shirt... a total pro. Simple needs to be distinct, and ornate has to work as a whole. To the same degree, if work looks rushed or forced, it's wrong... there's a line between a shaky style and just not caring. This is executed cleanly, but in no way does it stand out from any other designer. It could be ramy. Hell, it could be eHalcyon's Pica Republic design.

~concept. Most shirts need concept. It doesn't have to be a worldbreaking one, but it should be a solid one. The broader your concept, the more "done" it can be. The more specific your concept, the more you need to do to it to prove yours is the best. It is inarguable that this shirt has a tired concept... it's more inarguable, as far as I'm concerned, that a shirt that simply is something that already exists (which is to say, a shirt which is a literal representation of an iphone, without parodic elements... not necessarily a shirt which is a literal animal or plant) has no concept other than "buy this, it's familiar!" By comparison, we could look at Cho's "Tycoon of Ice". Penguins are incredibly tired, but because they are a less-specific theme, he was able to breathe life into them at a time when people were sick of them... the proper businessman standing by while grunt penguins harvested gleaming ice took a cute item and turned it a bit sadistic... the angle was different, even if the subject was the same. As for his steampunk penguin, well, we won't get into that.

~lack of concept. Some tees are all about art. Regardless of what wooters believe. Design By Humans has a lot of shirts that are ludicrously cluttered, but also many that, with no concrete theme, turn a t-shirt into fashion. If you look at something like Casajordi's "The Red Dream," or his "Death," you see a piece that evokes a mood, but treats the shirt as a canvas instead of trying to slap a concept on. If you're making an artistic shirt, you need to truly respect the shirt as a canvas... I've seen plenty of perfectly fine portraits or sketches slapped on a tee, and they're just wrong for the medium. Not only does it need to work on a shirt, you need your art to be engaging, special, and something you'd want to see all day, and know other people can see all day. Obviously this doesn't effect this entry, because this entry is about concept. But the best tee designers know how to use their canvas no matter what.

~when I'm truly deciding my favorites of favorites, I often consider: who else would sell this? If a design is so one-note that it would only fit in one site's catalog, it tends to be a shirt I'd wear more rarely. Finding Technicolor could have been a Threadless shirt, for example, while most everything that has won in the past few months, even the pieces I've liked, are the sorts of things only woot would ever print. There's no other site where this shirt would stand a chance, and objectively, it makes me wonder why it stands a chance at this one. Same with threadless' recent "booty fruit" or DBH's "Typographic pandemonium." There are some pieces that are perfect because they are so distinctly one site's bag, but things like those make me wonder whose brilliant idea it was to option that piece over one that they could snag before another site, giving them the advantage.

And sometimes there are the personal touches. I've voted for shirts I knew I was biased toward for personal reasons... they held a certain connection or just made me smile unavoidably or whatever. But I always still apply my criteria to the designs. That all aside, even if people are voting for this solely because of a personal connection, I find it so very hard to understand what personal connection, past "ooh, I know that phrase!" It can't just be the cute. We've seen the cute before. I've voted for scads of cute shirts over the internet, but it's always cute plus concept... cute plus awesome style... that should not be all you need. Cute is soooo broad, and there's sooooo much out there in sooooo many styles. to vote solely for cute is to admit you don't know what you're doing... there are quality levels and gradations.

itoaseik wrote:eHalcyon, in my short time on the Woot boards I have come to respect you for being one of the relatively few voices of evenness and reason on here, much more so than me. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I take it as an indication of just how badly this shirt "embrangles" that you defended Adder's criticisms, however slightly.

The source of complaints here is not that you like this shirt, but that you are voting for it, and therefore against all of the other more deserving designs. Especially due to the suspicion that some of those voting for these designs do so without even looking at many of the alternatives... anyway, Adder just did a pretty good job of explaining another part of it.

If you're talking to me in your second paragraph - I wouldn't buy it, and I didn't vote for it. I'm a big Fablefire fan, but this is certainly one of her worst designs. I think it was more of a joke entry, though she is a mysterious, mysterious person.

People will vote for the designs that they like. If it is a crime to vote for something "and therefore against all of the other more deserving designs", then does that mean we should all be limited to just one vote? In any case, "most deserving" is subjective. As for the suspicion you mentioned - that's true of any design in the fog or the hotness. Designs at the top get more exposure and thus more opportunity for votes. Please note that I'm replying within a general context and not in the context of this shirt.

AdderXYU wrote:Since I clearly misread

Let's look at it this way. If you went to Costumes R Us, and you saw a costume of the ORLY owl, you might say "Oh my, I must rent it for the Halloween party". But you're probably not going to say "Man, I love the reference and it's hilarious and I consider it well put together, I must buy it".

When it comes right down to it, there are plenty of reasons TO like a shirt, and they are all personal. What is more true is that there are specific reasons to NOT like a shirt. When I'm scoring shirts, I ask myself a few questions:

~have I seen this anywhere before? In this case, yes, I have. I've seen the concept plenty, and I've seen the style about weekly here since December. From there I ask "is this better than what I've seen." There was a "Seven Ate Nine" joke on Threadless not too long ago up for scoring that was a great take on the idea. The seven and nine were in shadow, with the six cowering afraid in the corner. The execution and conceptualization took it above and beyond any other realization of the theme that I'd seen, and it was a tired, tired theme. This simply doesn't do anything new with tired material.

~how is it executed? With this, I generally go for style over cleanliness. when you look at Edgar's work, it's distinctly him... you can tell every line means something, and every line is intentional. If you go to Threadless and look up buko, you'll see a guy who is nearly flawless in his linework and his use of technique and how things sit on a shirt... a total pro. Simple needs to be distinct, and ornate has to work as a whole. To the same degree, if work looks rushed or forced, it's wrong... there's a line between a shaky style and just not caring. This is executed cleanly, but in no way does it stand out from any other designer. It could be ramy. Hell, it could be eHalcyon's Pica Republic design.

~concept. Most shirts need concept. It doesn't have to be a worldbreaking one, but it should be a solid one. The broader your concept, the more "done" it can be. The more specific your concept, the more you need to do to it to prove yours is the best. It is inarguable that this shirt has a tired concept... it's more inarguable, as far as I'm concerned, that a shirt that simply is something that already exists (which is to say, a shirt which is a literal representation of an iphone, without parodic elements... not necessarily a shirt which is a literal animal or plant) has no concept other than "buy this, it's familiar!" By comparison, we could look at Cho's "Tycoon of Ice". Penguins are incredibly tired, but because they are a less-specific theme, he was able to breathe life into them at a time when people were sick of them... the proper businessman standing by while grunt penguins harvested gleaming ice took a cute item and turned it a bit sadistic... the angle was different, even if the subject was the same. As for his steampunk penguin, well, we won't get into that.

~lack of concept. Some tees are all about art. Regardless of what wooters believe. Design By Humans has a lot of shirts that are ludicrously cluttered, but also many that, with no concrete theme, turn a t-shirt into fashion. If you look at something like Casajordi's "The Red Dream," or his "Death," you see a piece that evokes a mood, but treats the shirt as a canvas instead of trying to slap a concept on. If you're making an artistic shirt, you need to truly respect the shirt as a canvas... I've seen plenty of perfectly fine portraits or sketches slapped on a tee, and they're just wrong for the medium. Not only does it need to work on a shirt, you need your art to be engaging, special, and something you'd want to see all day, and know other people can see all day. Obviously this doesn't effect this entry, because this entry is about concept. But the best tee designers know how to use their canvas no matter what.

~when I'm truly deciding my favorites of favorites, I often consider: who else would sell this? If a design is so one-note that it would only fit in one site's catalog, it tends to be a shirt I'd wear more rarely. Finding Technicolor could have been a Threadless shirt, for example, while most everything that has won in the past few months, even the pieces I've liked, are the sorts of things only woot would ever print. There's no other site where this shirt would stand a chance, and objectively, it makes me wonder why it stands a chance at this one. Same with threadless' recent "booty fruit" or DBH's "Typographic pandemonium." There are some pieces that are perfect because they are so distinctly one site's bag, but things like those make me wonder whose brilliant idea it was to option that piece over one that they could snag before another site, giving them the advantage.

And sometimes there are the personal touches. I've voted for shirts I knew I was biased toward for personal reasons... they held a certain connection or just made me smile unavoidably or whatever. But I always still apply my criteria to the designs. That all aside, even if people are voting for this solely because of a personal connection, I find it so very hard to understand what personal connection, past "ooh, I know that phrase!" It can't just be the cute. We've seen the cute before. I've voted for scads of cute shirts over the internet, but it's always cute plus concept... cute plus awesome style... that should not be all you need. Cute is soooo broad, and there's sooooo much out there in sooooo many styles. to vote solely for cute is to admit you don't know what you're doing... there are quality levels and gradations.

dude. there is only one qualification for judging shirts on woot. and its basically in the box that you click when you vote for it.

would you wear it or not?

seriously, i think people forget this way too often, and judge shirts on the different aspects of it. originality, artisticness(not a word, I know), cleverness, they all mean NOTHING. It doesnt matter if its the best piece of art in the world if you wouldn't wear it in public. It doesnt matter if its the funniest thing you've ever seen if its on a color you wouldn't put on. because ultimately whether you buy the shirt or not is whether or not it has wearability.

Kex wrote:dude. there is only one qualification for judging shirts on woot. and its basically in the box that you click when you vote for it.

would you wear it or not?

seriously, i think people forget this way too often, and judge shirts on the different aspects of it. originality, artisticness(not a word, I know), cleverness, they all mean NOTHING. It doesnt matter if its the best piece of art in the world if you wouldn't wear it in public. It doesnt matter if its the funniest thing you've ever seen if its on a color you wouldn't put on. because ultimately whether you buy the shirt or not is whether or not it has wearability.

So how do you judge "would I wear it or not"? Because you like it? and how do you judge if you like it?

You're right, originality and all that do mean nothing. Because plenty of people would rather fit a trend than express anything about themselves. that's how mall stores have prospered so long. So when buying shirts, maybe that's the case. But in a contest, it should be about more. Because if you just want something you'd wear, you can go ANYWHERE for it. But if you want something meaningful and unique, that is why you should be voting in a shirt contest

And anyway, again, it's the Apple Jacks argument. Why do you like it, and more importantly, why don't you like anything else better?

AdderXYU wrote:So how do you judge "would I wear it or not"? Because you like it? and how do you judge if you like it?

You're right, originality and all that do mean nothing. Because plenty of people would rather fit a trend than express anything about themselves. that's how mall stores have prospered so long. So when buying shirts, maybe that's the case. But in a contest, it should be about more. Because if you just want something you'd wear, you can go ANYWHERE for it. But if you want something meaningful and unique, that is why you should be voting in a shirt contest

And anyway, again, it's the Apple Jacks argument. Why do you like it, and more importantly, why don't you like anything else better?

I agree that concept, art, and all that jazz is important, but sometimes a design has that certain je ne sais quoi, that X-factor, that something that you can't explain. It is certainly possible to like something without being able to explain why.

eHalcyon wrote:I agree that concept, art, and all that jazz is important, but sometimes a design has that certain je ne sais quoi, that X-factor, that something that you can't explain. It is certainly possible to like something without being able to explain why.

A fair point. But since you don't like this shirt, a moot one.

Again: why this shirt, and why this one so strongly against 100 others? I find it difficult to believe that all 1000 voters are operating solely on a je ne sais quoi. Especially since this shirt has no element that hasn't been done to death contained therein.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Fablefire is so much better than this design. :\

AdderXYU wrote:So how do you judge "would I wear it or not"? Because you like it? and how do you judge if you like it?

You're right, originality and all that do mean nothing. Because plenty of people would rather fit a trend than express anything about themselves. that's how mall stores have prospered so long. So when buying shirts, maybe that's the case. But in a contest, it should be about more. Because if you just want something you'd wear, you can go ANYWHERE for it. But if you want something meaningful and unique, that is why you should be voting in a shirt contest

And anyway, again, it's the Apple Jacks argument. Why do you like it, and more importantly, why don't you like anything else better?

You dont know how to judge something on wearability?
for me... lets see: a shirt that I would wear:
-a shirt that most people will understand without having to stop and stare at, or needing to read it. simple, yet it must at least make sense. no disapproving narwhals plz

-appropriate in public. this means people wont be offended, children's eyes wont be shielded, my parents wouldnt be ashamed. basically a shirt that wont be making bad first impressions for me.

-is not going to make me look homosexual. nothing against them, but I don't want to be mistaken. basically no pink or purple shirts, no rainbows, no unicorns, etc. definitely not this, for example:
http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=5338

-a few other smaller things come into play, but the easiest way to choose wearability IMO, is just to ask yourself "would I wear this downtown? would I wear it to class? to a family picnic? to a bar with friends? etc." If yes, then the shirt is wearable. If no, then it doesnt get my vote.

in a contest, it should not be about more. woot is a store. they are here to sell things. they dont want to print shirts and pay artists if no one is buying. period.

i dont know what the applejacks argument is.

heres my parting words, please remember them if nothing else: woot allows you to vote for as many shirts as you want because there is hypothetically no limit to the number of shirts you would want to buy/wear. Therefore,only vote for a shirt if you would buy it when it prints! That's what you need to remember.

Kex wrote:You dont know how to judge something on wearability?
for me... lets see: a shirt that I would wear:
-a shirt that most people will understand without having to stop and stare at, or needing to read it. simple, yet it must at least make sense. no disapproving narwhals plz

-appropriate in public. this means people wont be offended, children's eyes wont be shielded, my parents wouldnt be ashamed. basically a shirt that wont be making bad first impressions for me.

-is not going to make me look homosexual. nothing against them, but I don't want to be mistaken. basically no pink or purple shirts, no rainbows, no unicorns, etc. definitely not this, for example:
http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=5338

-a few other smaller things come into play, but the easiest way to choose wearability IMO, is just to ask yourself "would I wear this downtown? would I wear it to class? to a family picnic? to a bar with friends? etc." If yes, then the shirt is wearable. If no, then it doesnt get my vote.

in a contest, it should not be about more. woot is a store. they are here to sell things. they dont want to print shirts and pay artists if no one is buying. period.

i dont know what the applejacks argument is.

heres my parting words, please remember them if nothing else: woot allows you to vote for as many shirts as you want because there is hypothetically no limit to the number of shirts you would want to buy/wear. Therefore,only vote for a shirt if you would buy it when it prints! That's what you need to remember.

If woot didn't want to print shirts and pay artists if no one is buying, why did they option CheeseSandwich for at least 5 poor selling dailies before she livetraced a picture of broccoli and hit the big time?

To that end, why do they allow a derby at all? As EC weeks have proven, Editor's Choice tees can often sell better than the shirts in their own derbies, or even the shirts selected by vote for the doubletake.

Past that, anyone so immature as to invoke homosexuality as a reason not to wear a shirt (or so closeminded as to feel there needs to be something to "get" for a shirt to look good enough to wear) rather limits his ability to be taken seriously.

Put simply, you're not only wrong, you're screaming wrong. Especially since you've been here for three months and not voted or bought anything. You seem to be pretty vehemently against my way of looking at things... nothing in the last three months has been ungay enough or simple-concept enough or publicly appropriate enough?

Kex wrote:
in a contest, it should not be about more. woot is a store. they are here to sell things. they dont want to print shirts and pay artists if no one is buying. period.

to elaborate on this point: The whole reason woot does derbies is the idea of rather than having some random suit or small group of kids choose what to sell, they have a whole community decide what they should sell and should not sell. It should not be about what shirt is most artistic or clever, there is no more needed. Woot is using us as small consumer sample group and our "job" if you will, is to pick the shirt that will sell the most and make them the most money.

Kex wrote:to elaborate on this point: The whole reason woot does derbies is the idea of rather than having some random suit or small group of kids choose what to sell, they have a whole community decide what they should sell and should not sell. It should not be about what shirt is most artistic or clever, there is no more needed. Woot is using us as small consumer sample group and our "job" if you will, is to pick the shirt that will sell the most and make them the most money.

People who are only about money will have a meaningless eternity when they die.

No one will remember what woot did when it folds. Threadless, on the other hand, will always be seen as an innovator. Because they cared about product, not money, first and foremost. Every company wants to profit. But some don't want to profit at the expense of what they believe in.

AdderXYU wrote:If woot didn't want to print shirts and pay artists if no one is buying, why did they option CheeseSandwich for at least 5 poor selling dailies before she livetraced a picture of broccoli and hit the big time?

To that end, why do they allow a derby at all? As EC weeks have proven, Editor's Choice tees can often sell better than the shirts in their own derbies, or even the shirts selected by vote for the doubletake.

Past that, anyone so immature as to invoke homosexuality as a reason not to wear a shirt (or so closeminded as to feel there needs to be something to "get" for a shirt to look good enough to wear) rather limits his ability to be taken seriously.

Put simply, you're not only wrong, you're screaming wrong. Especially since you've been here for three months and not voted or bought anything. You seem to be pretty vehemently against my way of looking at things... nothing in the last three months has been ungay enough or simple-concept enough or publicly appropriate enough?

For your first point, I cant really argue, considering the horrible choices woot uses for mid-week shirts. They really do make it look like they want to pay artists for shoddy work.

Also, on you EC comment, I've found that in, as you pointed out, my rather short time here at woot, shirts have a tendency to get into the fog and never leave. Shirts added late or that start out low, typically dont have a chance to win regardless of how artistic or comedic. A point you seem to agree with from earlier comments.

Also, nice attacking me for being honest. You asked how I pick a shirt and I told you. Everyone is entitled to their own reasons for wearing something, and those reasons are completely theirs. whether its to be part of a group(like everyone wearing uggs or abercrombie), because its comedic, because its attention-grabbing, or to just not look simply delightful is up to only them.

I find it funny that you call me screaming wrong yet just a second ago you agreed with what I said. pick a side, or do you just want to argue that much? I'm not against you, in fact I agree with you that this shirt should not be on top, let alone anywhere near it. I was only against your way of judging shirts. This isn't an art gallery like you seem to think, we're just a focus group so woot can ideally, sell more shirts.

and yes, there has been nothing that has won in the past three months has caught my attention. I've paid attention to shirt.woot for a while before i registed, but never bothered to register until I saw a shirt I actually wanted. If you cared, that shirt was resist, during the last double take, and of course it got 4th.

Kex wrote:I'm wrong

I hope you think you've come across as giving a totally reasonable argument, because I can say that there is no one educated who'd agree. Though I guess this isn't school, just like it isn't an art gallery, so quality of thought process isn't important so long as it's popular.

AdderXYU wrote:I have no life

see, i can do that too, though the difference is that mine is accurate, judging by your over 6000 posts.Im betting that no matter what time of day I reply to you, you will be there to say something witty right back.

Its funny, reading some of your earlier posts, I thought you actually had some valid points, though i thought you seemed to troll a little more than necessary. Now I see that trolling is all you do. You can rest assured knowing you won though, because after you reply to this, I wont be replying back, meaning you will have had the last word, and that will make you champion of all the world.

E: oh, and by the way, i thoroughly enjoy that you of all people say "quality" of thought, when you only have 7 quality posts out of over 6000. basically, 0.11% of your posts are quality

Kex wrote:see, i can do that too, though the difference is that mine is accurate, judging by your over 6000 posts.Im betting that no matter what time of day I reply to you, you will be there to say something witty right back.

Its funny, reading some of your earlier posts, I thought you actually had some valid points, though i thought you seemed to troll a little more than necessary. Now I see that trolling is all you do. You can rest assured knowing you won though, because after you reply to this, I wont be replying back, meaning you will have had the last word, and that will make you champion of all the world.

And you will be one more meaningless drive-by with the same tired and uneducated argument and the same self-satisfied attitude with every increasingly childish comment you post.

But hey, enjoy this shirt. Since it's so important to you to not look homosexual, you can rest assured that a kawaii fox and dog is not at all effeminate. No way no how.

AdderXYU wrote:And you will be one more meaningless drive-by...

No bearing on the shirt.

Can we get a clean up on this thread? Please?

AdderXYU wrote:If two shirts in the top 5 are great, then at least one shirt in the fog is "any good".

Not to debate whether you're right about quality or not. Simply to state you failed basic math.

Rofl.

And Fable, I don't really see the need for a cleanup. They are discussing the merit of this design and how it applies to shirt.woot in general. If they don't clean a lot of the stuff posted in Ramy's threads they surely don't need to clean this one.

Stormink wrote:Rofl.

And Fable, I don't really see the need for a cleanup. They are discussing the merit of this design and how it applies to shirt.woot in general. If they don't clean a lot of the stuff posted in Ramy's threads they surely don't need to clean this one.

Actually, they are having a pissing contest with each other, discussing the psychology behind the democracy of shirt.woot and telling each other "you're wrong", repeatedly.

That's all I'd like cleaned up.

Grats on your first buy btw.

fablefire wrote:Actually, they are having a pissing contest with each other

With each other, or on each other?

2thFairy wrote:So.. nobody is going to pee on Adder afterall?

eHalcyon wrote:

Touche! Reminds me of the stories I'd hear from my friend who worked in a nursing home. They had old men who would just pee all over the place.

fablefire wrote:Touche! Reminds me of the stories I'd hear from my friend who worked in a nursing home. They had old men who would just pee all over the place.

Sounds like good times.

I love it when people say they are not going to bother to respond to you and imply that you only "won" because they're (1) less childish than you, and (2) tired of you. If you want to stop responding, just stop responding; do not say you are going to take the high road by no longer responding but first taking some jabs at your opponent. That is a way of trying to get the last word. It reminds me of that private message I got on this site a few months ago: a member told me that my signature is offensive to her, and that I should not bother to respond. She wanted to be able to take jabs and use the "don't bother to respond to me" portion of her post as a way to be able to live with herself when I sent a rebuttal and she remained silent.

I am also reminded of people who announce to members of the message board they're on that they're going to leave, but then when some scathing replies come up about them being drama queens or stupid members anyway, they reply (when they should already be gone), and then say that that is going to be their last response because they're better than that.

I don't see this practice of announcing you are going to stop the conversation but taking the opportunity to make jabs at the opponent's latest post as taking the high road; rather, it is as if they are afraid about how people reading the posts are going to perceive them, so they have to tell the readers, "By the way, I'm going to stop responding to this guy because I'm better than him and tired of him." The practice reeks of insecurity.

eHalcyon wrote:Sounds like good times.

I know, right? I don't think you could pay me enough to do the nursing bit. At her new place they have a psych department. People just take a dump in a room, use a shower curtain for toilet paper, etc.

She tells me this over lunch.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Broken fog is broken

Tanapangarap wrote:I love it when people say they are not going to bother to respond to you and imply that you only "won" because they're (1) less childish than you, and (2) tired of you. If you want to stop responding, just stop responding; do not say you are going to take the high road by no longer responding but first taking some jabs at your opponent. That is a way of trying to get the last word. It reminds me of that private message I got on this site a few months ago: a member told me that my signature is offensive to her, and that I should not bother to respond. She wanted to be able to take jabs and use the "don't bother to respond to me" portion of her post as a way to be able to live with herself when I sent a rebuttal and she remained silent.

I am also reminded of people who announce to members of the message board they're on that they're going to leave, but then when some scathing replies come up about them being drama queens or stupid members anyway, they reply (when they should already be gone), and then say that that is going to be their last response because they're better than that.

I don't see this practice of announcing you are going to stop the conversation but taking the opportunity to make jabs at the opponent's latest post as taking the high road; rather, it is as if they are afraid about how people reading the posts are going to perceive them, so they have to tell the readers, "By the way, I'm going to stop responding to this guy because I'm better than him and tired of him." The practice reeks of insecurity.

I am NOT going to respond to this. Who's with me?

eHalcyon wrote:If you bothered to read the thread, you'll see that Adder DID address the post. He simply addressed it incorrectly. The question Beffy asked was "what is a good reason to like a shirt?" whereas Adder answered "what is a good reason to like this shirt?". I'm sure it was an honest mistake, because I saw the latter as well when I read Beffy's post. I only read it again because that would have been a pretty stupid question to ask of Adder.

I should have been more specific. I was talking about Adder's overall point, not his one specific reply to that one specific question which (let's face it) by that point wasn't going to change the minds of the masses even if he was Socrates.

eHalcyon wrote:If you're talking to me in your second paragraph - I wouldn't buy it, and I didn't vote for it. I'm a big Fablefire fan, but this is certainly one of her worst designs. I think it was more of a joke entry, though she is a mysterious, mysterious person.

People will vote for the designs that they like. If it is a crime to vote for something "and therefore against all of the other more deserving designs", then does that mean we should all be limited to just one vote? In any case, "most deserving" is subjective. As for the suspicion you mentioned - that's true of any design in the fog or the hotness. Designs at the top get more exposure and thus more opportunity for votes. Please note that I'm replying within a general context and not in the context of this shirt.

No, sorry, that was not directed at you or at anyone in particular, I just completely fa.iled to indicate any change of subject. It was a pretty pointless post by me anyway, and this has been argued to death, so I'll leave it at that.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Really? This is still in the fog?

thurdl01 wrote:This whole thread seems like a really long way of saying "people should only like things I like." I'm not a fan of this shirt, but I'm not going to get myself into a twist because other people do like it and are voting for it. Seriously. It's a t-shirt popularity contest, not anything life-or-death.

THANK YOU

thurdl01 wrote:This whole thread seems like a really long way of saying "people should only like things I like." I'm not a fan of this shirt, but I'm not going to get myself into a twist because other people do like it and are voting for it. Seriously. It's a t-shirt popularity contest, not anything life-or-death.

Does it need to either be "life or death" or "totally unserious"? Most people react like little babies the second their favorite sports team loses a game. Everyone's still getting a million dollars for throwing a ball, and the world doesn't end.

The world also doesn't end if a good tshirt doesn't print, but the difference is, if something wins due to a horrible call, they're the only one getting paid.

No one is saying this is life or death. We're simply saying that, in a contest with over 100 entries any given week, it shouldn't be too much to ask that three of the top 25 pieces (based on quality) be what gets printed. People get more worked up over things that effect them less. No matter what woot does, it will be unfair to customers... either there will be a monopoly on guppy design, or there will be a print schedule that doesn't reward on popularity alone. How about woot does what's fairest for the designers, instead?

Josephus wrote:I am NOT going to respond to this. Who's with me?

Oooh, me! Me!!

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

If this shirt wins I will never buy another shirt from Woot again.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I can't help but feel that all these crappy shiny anime/chibi shirts are just like the blaxploitation movies of the 60's and 70's: they're terrible movies when they are judged as movies, but since they target a specific audience and appeal to them as movies directed specifically for them, they profit and do well. These shirts are exactly like those movies, they pull in a small portion of the voters and yet the voters who are fans of these shirts happen to be diehard fans that will buy anything that has an animal with beady little eyes and pointy legs on it.

The only difference is that the blaxploitation films were often hilariously bad...there's nothing hilarious with the types of shirts that keep fogging. I wish there were a coinable phrase like "blaxploitation" for this, but I can't seem to think of one...I'll give props to whoever can.

And don't even try me with your "just because you don't like it doesn't make it a bad shirt!!! (with an assumed "desu kawaii!!1!1!" or whatever, of course) because this shirt is neither original nor particularly well-drawn. For God's sake, it's practically a doodle! So what makes a shirt good?

1. A clever, original design
2. A design that works well on a shirt
3. Good artwork

Realistically, not all shirts that win derbies can be expected to fulfill all 3 requirements each time (the exceptional ones will, but these are not to be expected at each derby) and so I'm going to say that so long as a shirt fulfills two out of the three then it can be considered a "good shirt."

Now lets judge this shirt:
1. Nope, this has been done before on shirts. Just look at the threadless shirts (their fox is actually brown, too).
2. This happens to be more subjective than the other categories. I'd say this does NOT work well on a shirt but that's largely a matter of opinion and so you can count this one if you really wish.
3. Been over this earlier in this post, it's practically a doodle. Simple, solid colors with no shading and no attempt to have any sort of anatomical correctness. "But that's what the art style is! You can't judge it based on that! Pietà isn't anatomically correct and it's still a work of art (doubt I'd get an example like this but may as well be prepared for ALL counter-arguments, no matter how unlikely)!" Ok fine, it's chibi or whatever. But Pietà and other artworks like much of Picasso's work are not anatomically correct because they inspire greater affectation this way and still required skill to create the artwork in a way that creates that affectation. They were ORIGINAL, their own style; this work is following a done to death art style that is not original and doesn't require skill to "create" it just follows an established style. It's essentially like a caricature artist on the steet: they can draw well but they just follow a formula, they don't "create". So based on that, I can't give this shirt the point for artwork.

So 1/3 max, and that's already a stretch. Therefore, this shirt is NOT good thus should NOT be in the fog, possibly as the front runner.

brihunts wrote:
1. The original version of the text this alludes to read "the quick fox jumps over the lazy brown dog" because foxes, generally, are not brown.

3. Animal physiology differs from that of humans, so in respect to the forth leg the design seems dead on when taking into account perspective. A fox's legs would splay a bit when jumping, thus putting that forth leg just beyond sight. Also take in the fact that THIS IS A CARTOON DEPICTION. Get over yourselves folks.

4.It's a matter of personal preference on if you like 'cute' or not. The majority apparently do, so learn to deal with it. Democracy is double-plus good, comrades.

1. Even still, the dog is kind of a cream...
3. You need to see more cartoons that look like they took a lot of effort and precision. Being a cartoon should not automatically lower your expectations for the design.
4. At this point I'd prefer 3 weekday shirts, 2 derby shirts, and 2 Editor's choice every week. Democracy doesn't seem so 'double-plus good' to me (in woot at least).

On the bright side, at least soyokazefuhen left.

wugsby wrote:

The only difference is that the blaxploitation films were often hilariously bad...there's nothing hilarious with the types of shirts that keep fogging. I wish there were a coinable phrase like "blaxploitation" for this, but I can't seem to think of one...I'll give props to whoever can.

japsploitation?

smedgrick wrote:
On the bright side, at least soyokazefuhen left.

Translation: WAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I've decided I shouldn't complain about this sort of thing anymore, at least for now. Hopefully Woot will use their editor's picks to restore faith in those who don't like seeing two or three shiny designs out of every derby.

The whole thing reminds me of a Churchill quote, "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Also, Chapelle's Player-Haters Ball sketch, "Hate hate hate hate hate." Not that this shirt doesn't warrant it, but anyway... no more complaining.

itoaseik wrote:My own previous post.

I meant to include a link to Edgar's Dinosaur Shirt in there for anyone interested in a very creative design with some aspects of cuteness. Please take a look.

On a related note, does anyone know why the button for me to edit my posts is not available most of the time? I thought it might only be there for a limited time after the post was made, but that did not seem to be the case this time.

edit: link removed, but you should still check out the shirt. I hope 23rd is high enough to be considered for Editor's Choice.

Decker2pure wrote:If this shirt wins I will never buy another shirt from Woot again.

See ya later.

itoaseik wrote:...again

It occurred to me right after I posted this that linking on one design page to another design could easily be against Woot's rules or at least considered rude. In either case, I am sorry, I would edit that out just in case if the aforementioned edit button were not gone. I still think people should check out the design, but an actual link might be too much.

itoaseik wrote:It occurred to me right after I posted this that linking on one design page to another design could easily be against Woot's rules or at least considered rude. In either case, I am sorry, I would edit that out just in case if the aforementioned edit button were not gone. I still think people should check out the design, but an actual link might be too much.

Are you going from the collective comments thread or the shirt's thread? The latter won't have an edit button, but you can click on the post ID permalink (top right) to get to your post in the main comment thread. You should see an edit button there.

itoaseik wrote:It occurred to me right after I posted this that linking on one design page to another design could easily be against Woot's rules or at least considered rude. In either case, I am sorry, I would edit that out just in case if the aforementioned edit button were not gone. I still think people should check out the design, but an actual link might be too much.

It would be rude, but thankfully this isn't a design

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

sigh*

the end.

smedgrick wrote:

On the bright side, at least soyokazefuhen left.

Awww, didn't know you guys missed me.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

God, I love this shirt. I've wanted it forever. Definite purchase if run.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Love this shirt. Will certainly purchase if printed.
Cute and witty. Deal with it, people. They're t-shirts, not "wearable art." This is $10, free shipping Woot-Land. You want fancy stuff that costs a bunch and doesn't appeal to people who aren't art students (or who hang around on the internet all day), go to threadless.

wugsby wrote:So what makes a shirt good?

A desire by a purchaser to wear it. Nothing more complicated than that.

AdderXYU wrote:Does it need to either be "life or death" or "totally unserious"? Most people react like little babies the second their favorite sports team loses a game. Everyone's still getting a million dollars for throwing a ball, and the world doesn't end.

The world also doesn't end if a good tshirt doesn't print, but the difference is, if something wins due to a horrible call, they're the only one getting paid.

No one is saying this is life or death. We're simply saying that, in a contest with over 100 entries any given week, it shouldn't be too much to ask that three of the top 25 pieces (based on quality) be what gets printed. People get more worked up over things that effect them less. No matter what woot does, it will be unfair to customers... either there will be a monopoly on guppy design, or there will be a print schedule that doesn't reward on popularity alone. How about woot does what's fairest for the designers, instead?

"quality" is a TOTALLY subjective concept in this context. I didn't see anywhere in the derby rules where it says, "vote for the design that you think best captures the true essence of the theme." I'm pretty sure woot wants to make money by selling shirts, which is why they let us vote for shirts that we want to BUY (I'd want one!), not that will support the t-shirt designing community's efforts to achieve the perfectly crafted t-shirt (I'd admire one from a distance!).

maybe voting for a shirt should include a commitment to buy it if printed...that should yield some interesting results haha.

or all of us could read Travels of a T-Shirt and see how consequential all these shirts we love (and I have dozens, believe me) really are!

mxmvlcty wrote:"quality" is a TOTALLY subjective concept in this context. I didn't see anywhere in the derby rules where it says, "vote for the design that you think best captures the true essence of the theme." I'm pretty sure woot wants to make money by selling shirts, which is why they let us vote for shirts that we want to BUY (I'd want one!), not that will support the t-shirt designing community's efforts to achieve the perfectly crafted t-shirt (I'd admire one from a distance!).

maybe voting for a shirt should include a commitment to buy it if printed...that should yield some interesting results haha.

or all of us could read Travels of a T-Shirt and see how consequential all these shirts we love (and I have dozens, believe me) really are!

So, if people are not supposed to vote with the theme in mind, why does woot give themes?

Everyone wants to make money. But there are billions of consumers in the world. Selling for a mass bloc instead of selling what you believe is worthy of printing is the only way to stand out. Because seriously, when woot only sells 600 copies worth of a daily, do you really think they're not turning a hell of a profit for the day?

Other sites are able to continually be diverse every time they roll out new shirts, and that is why people keep checking them. They are also able to shape an identity if they wish... there is a "Threadless" shirt, and a "DBH" shirt. A "Woot" shirt, if you were to define it, is bottom of the barrel... a design either created for people who find walmart clothing too challenging, or a design from an otherwise solid designer that comes from the failure pile, because who's going to give their best work to a site that doesn't appreciate artists? Profitable or not, being OK with that is pretty pathetic.

wugsby wrote:
So what makes a shirt good?

thurdl01 wrote:A desire by a purchaser to wear it. Nothing more complicated than that.

I don't know what thread this is in, or what the ongoing debate is, but I found this quote interesting. I immediately thought of those movies like Epic Movie and Meet the Spartans. At least a couple of million people desire to see those movies, and yet that fact does not make them good. It may be good to them, but there's always another stratum on top of personal taste that takes into account critical, historical, and cultural taste. There's a lot of bad things out there that some people desire (crystal meth, Sandra Bullock movies) but just the fact that they want them doesn't make them good.

That said, if you like whatever shirt this thread represents, vote away.

Cormano wrote:Love this shirt. Will certainly purchase if printed.
Cute and witty. Deal with it, people. They're t-shirts, not "wearable art." This is $10, free shipping Woot-Land. You want fancy stuff that costs a bunch and doesn't appeal to people who aren't art students (or who hang around on the internet all day), go to threadless.

No you deal with it, you're the one who's spending $10 for it.

The fox looks like something from Firefox

The fox looks like something from firefox, but I like the design.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Firefox anyone?

ramyb wrote:Uh oh, here come your designs to crush everyone's dreams, heh- I will be shocked if you don't get (at least) one print out of this double-take. Shocked, I tell you. (GL)

tgentry wrote:I don't know what thread this is in, or what the ongoing debate is, but I found this quote interesting. I immediately thought of those movies like Epic Movie and Meet the Spartans. At least a couple of million people desire to see those movies, and yet that fact does not make them good. It may be good to them, but there's always another stratum on top of personal taste that takes into account critical, historical, and cultural taste. There's a lot of bad things out there that some people desire (crystal meth, Sandra Bullock movies) but just the fact that they want them doesn't make them good.

Translation: I don't like it, and anyone who does like it is a moron. Great argument.

Comparing a bloody T-shirt to crystal meth is just embarrassing. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Nyghtewynd wrote:Translation: I don't like it, and anyone who does like it is a moron. Great argument.

Comparing a bloody T-shirt to crystal meth is just embarrassing. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Can we stop with all the "Translation: (insert guppy here)" posts please? You didn't just oversimplify the argument, you heard only what you wanted to argue against, and from one of the people that was actually very polite about not liking this shirt. Especially since his last sentence (which you did not quote) said if you like it, vote for it.

Thanks for clearing up the edit button, eHalcyon.

AdderXYU wrote:So, if people are not supposed to vote with the theme in mind, why does woot give themes?

Woot gives themes to help give people ideas, and to have an outline. The derbies (to Woot) don't seem to be about how on theme they are, just how much people like/vote for them. The theme does do much, just you can't draw a picture of a bear in a theme about kittens, but you could draw a jaguar or some such thing. Woot only loosely follows their themes, as you have seen. And I know you think that they should be more strict about the themes, and I'm not arguing with you about it, just answering your question

And the theme does help with ideas, because have you ever been in school where they simply tell you to write a 5 paragraph essay? I hated when my teachers did something like that. Ideas come a lot easier when you have some sort guide.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

Thanks to all who supported (and still continue to support) this shirt!

Nyghtewynd wrote:Translation: I don't like it, and anyone who does like it is a moron. Great argument.

Comparing a bloody T-shirt to crystal meth is just embarrassing. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I don't even know what shirt this discussion is dealing with and are thus not comparing it to anything. I'm not even discussing shirts specifically, I'm responding to the idea that someone wanting something is the de facto definition on what is good. Because someone wants a shirt, movie, car, drug, anything doesn't make it good, it just means that thing appeals to them in some way. I don't think the idea that the person posted is correct, and was simply explaining why.

Beffy wrote:Woot gives themes to help give people ideas, and to have an outline. The derbies (to Woot) don't seem to be about how on theme they are, just how much people like/vote for them. The theme does do much, just you can't draw a picture of a bear in a theme about kittens, but you could draw a jaguar or some such thing. Woot only loosely follows their themes, as you have seen. And I know you think that they should be more strict about the themes, and I'm not arguing with you about it, just answering your question

And the theme does help with ideas, because have you ever been in school where they simply tell you to write a 5 paragraph essay? I hated when my teachers did something like that. Ideas come a lot easier when you have some sort guide.

And if your history teacher told you to write a 10 page paper on development, and you decide to write about photographic technique, because it involves developing, you'd be shocked to get an F, wouldn't you?

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

I would also like to point out that one can't argue with stupid.

This goes both ways btw, for those frustrated with people who are being elitist, and for the elitist who are frustrated with the non-elitist.

AdderXYU wrote:And if your history teacher told you to write a 10 page paper on development, and you decide to write about photographic technique, because it involves developing, you'd be shocked to get an F, wouldn't you?

Agreed. If the theme is just a muse to get the creative juices flowing, there should be no "off topic" rejections. The fact that Shirt.Woot does reject for this reason (though, frustratingly inconsistent) means that the theme is intended to be followed.

itoaseik wrote:Can we stop with all the "Translation: (insert guppy here)" posts please?

Translation: I like guppies.

Answer: No.

re: the quick brown fox

plain and uninteresting. sorry

AdderXYU wrote:And if your history teacher told you to write a 10 page paper on development, and you decide to write about photographic technique, because it involves developing, you'd be shocked to get an F, wouldn't you?

What if they had been studying the history of photography and were, in fact, talking about the photo development process?

I agree with your point though.

At this point I just vote for everything cutesy just to annoy the whiners.

AdderXYU wrote: japsploitation?

not bad. Not quite as catchy as blaxploitation, though I'm not entirely sure of the "political correctness" of the word "jap" used in it. I'll give you half props for trying, it's better than what I could've thought of.

its because it has all the letters of the alphabet in one sentence.

Re: The Quick Brown Fox

The breadsticks need marinara!?! The fox is ORANGE! Why couldn't the shirt be a different color and the fox be brown?? This shirt is dead to me.