Derby #98: Famous Quotations Illustrated

See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil

Similar shirts available elsewhere.

Rejected because: Similar shirts available elsewhere.

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jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko

Icemank91


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Icemank91
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Reminds me of your Lion the witch and the wardrobe shirt! Love it! the distressing works quite well on this one. =)

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
Icemank91 wrote:Reminds me of your Lion the witch and the wardrobe shirt! Love it! the distressing works quite well on this one. =)


Thanks! It turned out better than I expected!

godslinger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages godslinger
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Cute pandas on Kelly Green?!?! SCORE!! :D

achariam


quality posts: 0 Private Messages achariam
Icemank91 wrote:Reminds me of your Lion the witch and the wardrobe shirt! Love it! the distressing works quite well on this one. =)


agreed, i really like the effect.

View my work.Read my notes. You should follow me on twitter here.

mfulkron80


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mfulkron80

Isn't this just the monkey thing with Pandas subbed?

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
mfulkron80 wrote:Isn't this just the monkey thing with Pandas subbed?


Yes...and?

truffleshuffle


quality posts: 4 Private Messages truffleshuffle
mfulkron80 wrote:Isn't this just the monkey thing with Pandas subbed?


Pandas are just so much more ADORABLE than monkeys!!

Vote!

evanoe


quality posts: 0 Private Messages evanoe

tiernane


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tiernane
evanoe wrote:why pandas?....


Because they're cute, and therefore will get votes.

unchained


quality posts: 0 Private Messages unchained




One Trick Pony.



Stormink


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Stormink
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I wouldn't wear it because its too cutesy for me, but nice job with the abstraction of the pandas face to make it still obviously a panda.

BaconWishmeyer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages BaconWishmeyer

unchained wrote:One Trick Pony.



Ha! Yeah, this is definitely a retread of DeadFrog's only print.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
unchained wrote:One Trick Pony.


Um, did you forget about "Rain Dance" or one of the many other VERY artistic designs DF has submitted?

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
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JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale

.

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
BaconWishmeyer wrote:Ha! Yeah, this is definitely a retread of DeadFrog's only print.

You need to recount:
Dig That Cat's 'Fro
The Epic Begins

eHalcyon wrote:Um, did you forget about "Rain Dance" or one of the many other VERY artistic designs DF has submitted?


I think they were commenting on the fact that the only shirts that have been printed of DF's were those in this exact scratchy style.

imsochady


quality posts: 26 Private Messages imsochady
unchained wrote:One Trick Pony.


As long as it's a really, REALLY cool trick, then you're good.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Thanks for coming to my defense guys This style is definitely a crowd-pleaser.

emp1346


quality posts: 1 Private Messages emp1346
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


how so... unoriginal...

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
JadenKale wrote:I think they were commenting on the fact that the only shirts that have been printed of DF's were those in this exact scratchy style.


Exactly my thoughts but more so it's the lack of anything even remotely original and rehashed placement. The LWW shirt had a lion a witch and a wardrobe. The beginning shirt had turtles and a vial of ooze. This is pretty much a direct copy of anything that's ever been produced of "see/hear/speak no evil."

I loved rain dance because it took thought and creativity. This is just bottom of the barrel for creativity and originality. It is however the height of pandering so good luck I guess.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
mrwednesday wrote:Exactly my thoughts but more so it's the lack of anything even remotely original and rehashed placement. The LWW shirt had a lion a witch and a wardrobe. The beginning shirt had turtles and a vial of ooze. This is pretty much a direct copy of anything that's ever been produced of "see/hear/speak no evil."

I loved rain dance because it took thought and creativity. This is just bottom of the barrel for creativity and originality. It is however the height of pandering so good luck I guess.


I agree with this statement, just not the suggestion that DF is a "one trick pony". I'm disappointed that this design was even submitted, let alone in the fog. Not only is it just like any other "___ no evil" design, but it's also just like DF's Narnia design. Using a recognizable style is one thing, but this is just a bit too close for comfort.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

xtinaftw


quality posts: 21 Private Messages xtinaftw
mrwednesday wrote:chop

It is however the height of pandering so good luck I guess.


Pandering. Hidden meaning here, DF?

I will take both sides here. My original thought was, "Man same old thing." Not referring to this specific artist per se, but as a general style that seems prevalent and gets lots of votes. I think this is one of those issues where you can't just shake your finger and say tsk tsk to the artist. In reality, if this style wasn't such an effective one for t-shirt designs, and let's say that I used this style week after week after week, but it wasn't such a crowd pleaser, no one would care to call me a One Trick Pony. They might say I should branch out and try other styles, but in defense of artists everywhere, should we not ultimately defend and applaud every artist for being true to themselves?

Now, if DF HATES this style, and he only does it to "pander" (ha, still makes me giggle) to the crowd, then ok, tsk tsk DF. But as others have pointed out, he does also express various styles and executes them beautifully.

I say shame on the voters for mindless voting, "Hey this matches all my other shirts of the same style!" and for not giving the due to beautiful and artistic expressions as often as they should.

/endwalloftext

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Wow, this would have been a weak idea even if you hadn't already done nearly this exact same thing already, with the same bloody distressing you use for all your entries. You're in the running for the least creative, least interesting designer here. Which on this site means big bucks, but little respect.

Enedlhach


quality posts: 15 Private Messages Enedlhach

wow... another panda entry... what a surprise...

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
Enedlhach wrote:wow... another panda entry... what a surprise...


Another out of how many? I haven't been seeing a lot of panda entries, let alone enough to trigger "another panda entry" comment.

krankykitty


quality posts: 1 Private Messages krankykitty
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Cute, but... been done with monkeys, frogs, and various other animals.

In other words, cute but really unoriginal.

At least it's not on asphalt...

Do, or do not. There is no try. ~Yoda

yodal


quality posts: 3 Private Messages yodal
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


you gotta love a panda! I like it on the green too!! hope it gets printed

xxchange


quality posts: 44 Private Messages xxchange
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I had no idea pandas were particularly concerned with evil. Maybe that sneezing baby panda alerted them of the devil.

My Colours: 6 Black, 9 Asphalt, 7 Cranberry, 4 Royal Blue, 10 Navy, 7 Silver, 7 Grass, 2 Orange, 2 Kelly Green, 8 Brown, 1 White, 2 Lemon, 7 Baby Blue, 3 Cream, 2 Heather Gray, 5 Olive, 1 Pink, 1 Eggplant

Last 12 of 85: Little Dreams, Black and White, Fall, I'm not prickley on the inside..., Released, Nature Owl, Mirror Mirror, The Last Day, Playful Foxes Remix, My Special Day, My Special Day Tote, Circuit-ulatory System Remix

krisrobinson


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krisrobinson
krankykitty wrote:

At least it's not on asphalt...


X-P @asphalt.. can we just drop that shirt color for the rest of the year please...

Pandas, everyone loves pandas.

mixer23


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mixer23
Finley4 wrote:Wow, this would have been a weak idea even if you hadn't already done nearly this exact same thing already, with the same bloody distressing you use for all your entries. You're in the running for the least creative, least interesting designer here. Which on this site means big bucks, but little respect.


Are you kidding me? Most of DF's designs are great... And not in this style. Fact: All of his winning designs are in this style. After all the amazing designs that are submitted that hardly get any attntion(as far as being in the fog, I mean), I can't blame DF for going back to a winning formula. And I'm a proud owner of Epic

roofdiver


quality posts: 0 Private Messages roofdiver
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


is this a double take derby? we have two entry's in the fog that have been done before. l a m e

whisperatdaybreak


quality posts: 0 Private Messages whisperatdaybreak
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


This is so cute... I love it!

sewinsew


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sewinsew

im not a big fan, way too easy to think this one up. i wouldnt buy one

nyke15


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nyke15
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


This shirt has been done tons of times. I guess I don't understand why this wouldn't get rejected if the concept is so unoriginal and i guess... average...

godslinger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages godslinger
byrbwr wrote:doh de doh. i'm a moron. hey look! it's three pandas, i like pandas, they're the fluffy version of monkeys! who do i send my check to?


aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's on GREEN!!! I hate the /no evil thing, BUT it's pandas...THREE pandas! yes my dumb brain loves cute shirts that I don't have to explain to someone or that someone isn't staring at me trying to figure out what kind of graphic is on my shirt. t-shirts are for fun and nothin's funner than pandas. :P

GMV +!

Jae87


quality posts: 5 Private Messages Jae87
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


*sigh*

Sure it's cute, but it's so un-original. I think they have shirts for this saying with every animal / inanimate object doing the same gestures.

--Jae
Birthday Crap - 7/12/09, Random Crap - 1/28/10, Adventure Crap - 4/1/10, Birthday Crap - 7/12/10, Brick of Carbonite - 12/6/11, Santa's Sack of Crap - 12/25/11

godslinger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages godslinger
Jae87 wrote:*sigh*

Sure it's cute, but it's so un-original. I think they have shirts for this saying with every animal / inanimate object doing the same gestures.


then think of it as pandas doing their daily exercises!

asher0716


quality posts: 1 Private Messages asher0716
godslinger wrote:aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's on GREEN!!! I hate the /no evil thing, BUT it's pandas...THREE pandas! yes my dumb brain loves cute shirts that I don't have to explain to someone or that someone isn't staring at me trying to figure out what kind of graphic is on my shirt. t-shirts are for fun and nothin's funner than pandas. :P

GMV +!


Well said, godslinger (not about your dumb brain, because I don't know you well enough to make that judgment call)! Indeed, I'd venture to say that shirts are intended simply for the brief but entertaining reaction by friends and the INITIAL conversation starter; NOT for an extended philosophical conversation regarding the intrinsic value of the shirt's cryptic message itself.

As with any attention getter, such as the aesthetics of a website, or the commercial break on TV, there is a brief 5-7 second window in which the audience's limited attention can be won over before they change the channel or website. So with a shirt, most people will walk away if they don't quickly grasp the idea of the shirt, thus defeating the purpose of attraction attention.

Again, in agreement, pandas are awesome! I hope this shirt gets printed

wugsby


quality posts: 4 Private Messages wugsby
nyke15 wrote:This shirt has been done tons of times. I guess I don't understand why this wouldn't get rejected if the concept is so unoriginal and i guess... average...


Because the woot mods are biased and not really interested in the integrity of the derby so much as they are what will make woot money. Can you blame them? No, it's what you have to realistically expect. It's the bitter reality, so abandon all hope that woot would care about anything EXCEPT the bottom line.

How can you tell this isn't just an isolated incident? It's simply because this isn't the first time this has happened. Remember the "quick brown fox" shirt? Of course you do.

Had it been done before? YES. In fact, woot rejected a separate shirt based upon the design's slight similarity to a cardboard card used in a trading card game because Magic The Gathering must apparently have a copyright on anthropomorphic storm clouds.

Was the artwork good enough to warrant distinction from the recycled idea of "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"? CLEARLY NOT, there was even a better one on threadless.

Did woot ultimately give half of a rodent's mule about the INTEGRITY of the derby and the LEGITIMACY of the design? OF COURSE NOT! They knew the exact masses that the shirt was PANDered to would unfailingly and dependably wet themselves with spasmodic glee at the sight of anything matching their "kawaii" wardrobe (In the lexophilic layman's terms, basically anything cute, cuddly, fuzzy, chibi, smiley, childlike, or any combination concocted from these cacodemonic components that is cheaply and criminally compiled by a callously covetous creator.) and so figured that a bankable shirt with little to no integrity was better than a competitor's shirt that didn't have the same bankable kawaii apeal.


So finally, the point is (I knew I had one somewhere...) that no, though many of us believe that this shirt should be rejected due to its unoriginality and similarity to other shirts, it won't be. We can complain all we want (take it from me) but ultimately this shirt will probably make it to print anyways. Until this changes (likely never), all you can do is pretty much join me in a heavy sigh and hope that the next derby will escape this spreading contagion that is mutating shirt.woot.

hbanzapan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages hbanzapan

I have no argument against the fact that this shirt is very cute, very attractive and that people will love it. But I do feel that the point of this derby was to illustrate a famous quotation in an original way. I might be assuming the original part but that's the impression I got. I think it is common knowledge that three people/animals doing these gestures is the standard illustration for "Hear no evil, Speak no evil..." It would be like using a red octagon to illustrate stop. Anyway, I'm not trying to insult or attack the artist, they ARE very talented. This is just how I feel. But like I said, I have no doubt that this shirt will be very successful and I wish you the best of luck. (Sincerely) I just had to get that off my chest.

mr96crabs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mr96crabs

ChokingOutTheRadio


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ChokingOutTheRadio
byrbwr wrote:remember the pander tree? this is the panda tree. and it's sad.

one trick pony? certainly. does it matter to the half-witted voter? definitely not.

here's your average voter:

"doh de doh. i'm a moron. hey look! it's three pandas, i like pandas, they're the fluffy version of monkeys! who do i send my check to?"



This design is going to make alot of money. It will probably be among the unreckoned for months to come. The artist is an artist and wants to sell a design. This design is going to sell. If you are voting designs because of their artistic integrity, then good for you. I'm sure every artists that submits to a derby appreciates those votes and the fact that you took the time to look at their work. But this website is a business, and there is nothing wrong about using clever marketing and given ability to maximize one's benefit. We all have the same capability.

And attacking the voters is just small.

mr96crabs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mr96crabs
ChokingOutTheRadio wrote:This design is going to make alot of money. It will probably be among the unreckoned for months to come. The artist is an artist and wants to sell a design. This design is going to sell. If you are voting designs because of their artistic integrity, then good for you. I'm sure every artists that submits to a derby appreciates those votes and the fact that you took the time to look at their work. But this website is a business, and there is nothing wrong about using clever marketing and given ability to maximize one's benefit. We all have the same capability.

And attacking the voters is just small.


that too

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
wugsby wrote:In the lexophilic layman's terms, basically anything cute, cuddly, fuzzy, chibi, smiley, childlike, or any combination concocted from these cacodemonic components that is cheaply and criminally compiled by a callously covetous creator.


Yay! Woot's very own mysteriously anonymous agent of mass reform appears to do justice upon this thread!

Frostbiter


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Frostbiter
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Putting all else aside, I must admit that if this gets printed I am in for one. Simple and adorable.

ISO30


quality posts: 2 Private Messages ISO30
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


DF, about that scratchy style that has worked for your other designs? You know, the style that wooters like? The one that paid off your car? Yeah... stop using that, okay?

me2you


quality posts: 1 Private Messages me2you
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


The more I see this the more I like it. =)
GMV on this "look".

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Exists elsewhere:
http://www.frog.co.nz/pandas.html

godslinger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages godslinger
Finley4 wrote:Exists elsewhere:
http://www.frog.co.nz/pandas.html


Never bought a shirt and can't vote, yet you care so much.

Of course it's going to be elsewhere! This saying has been done, over done, and burnt to ashes in every way shape and form. HOWEVER, it is 3 cute pandas on a kelly green shirt = LOVE :3

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
godslinger wrote:Never bought a shirt and can't vote, yet you care so much.

Of course it's going to be elsewhere! This saying has been done, over done, and burnt to ashes in every way shape and form. HOWEVER, it is 3 cute pandas on a kelly green shirt = LOVE :3


Shirts get rejected when the exact same idea is found elsewhere. This shirt should be no exception, regardless of how much the biological needs of the voters to care for offspring is being filled by the collecting of proxy cute items.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
Finley4 wrote:Shirts get rejected when the exact same idea is found elsewhere. This shirt should be no exception, regardless of how much the biological needs of the voters to care for offspring is being filled by the collecting of proxy cute items.


Just because another shirt has butterflies doesn't mean its not an original creation if it also has butterflies. It simply means that a lot of people have thought about butterflies before.

You want Woot to reject all butterfly designs because someone else put them on a shirt?

But look, they both have butterflies AND they are flying! REJECTION.

Popular animals, popular gesture.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ChokingOutTheRadio wrote:This design is going to make alot of money. It will probably be among the unreckoned for months to come. The artist is an artist and wants to sell a design. This design is going to sell. If you are voting designs because of their artistic integrity, then good for you. I'm sure every artists that submits to a derby appreciates those votes and the fact that you took the time to look at their work. But this website is a business, and there is nothing wrong about using clever marketing and given ability to maximize one's benefit. We all have the same capability.

And attacking the voters is just small.


If you make a design for money alone, you are not an artist. I don't care how good it is.

Deadfrog has a lot of potential, but clearly he cares less about his potential and more about his potential paycheck.

And this continues to be so overdone it may as well be mistaken for charcoal.

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
DeadFrog wrote:

Popular animals, popular gesture.


Combine and you have an idea. Not just a single element, which is fair game as noted by your butterfly example, but a panda doing something specific that can be found on another shirt. Woot generally rejects for this. Add that to the fact that it looks like a previously printed shirt (woot doesn't care if it's by the same artist) and you have two solid reasons why this uncreative money grab should be rejected.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Finley4 wrote:Combine and you have an idea. Not just a single element, which is fair game as noted by your butterfly example, but a panda doing something specific that can be found on another shirt. Woot generally rejects for this. Add that to the fact that it looks like a previously printed shirt (woot doesn't care if it's by the same artist) and you have two solid reasons why this uncreative money grab should be rejected.


The other thing that should be remembered is that "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" is ALWAYS illustrated JUST LIKE THIS. It has been for probably centuries. Just with monkeys instead of pandas. Considering this derby is about "Reimagining" and being "inspired" by the quotes, this should be rejected with speed and without prejudice. It's just not original and if it's not off theme by the letter, it is off theme by the spirit.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
AdderXYU wrote:If you make a design for money alone, you are not an artist. I don't care how good it is.

Deadfrog has a lot of potential, but clearly he cares less about his potential and more about his potential paycheck.

And this continues to be so overdone it may as well be mistaken for charcoal.


Cute things have social value as well Adder. People like cute things, almost as much as snarky commentary.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
DeadFrog wrote:Cute things have social value as well Adder. People like cute things, almost as much as snarky commentary.


I don't believe I said anything against it being cute. I do believe I said it was uncreative, and was a blatant pander, not to mention being offtheme given the "reinterpreted" part of the theme itself. For these reasons, I argue it is not art. Cute can be artistic, but art is about passion for something other than a green wallet lining. This is design at the most generous, because it only exists to sell.

There is plenty of cute stuff with social and artistic value. The only value this shirt has is in your and woot's pockets. People don't like cute. They like uncreative and easy to swallow. Because woot gets plenty of well done cute all the time, but it's only schlock like this that succeeds with it.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
AdderXYU wrote:I don't believe I said anything against it being cute. I do believe I said it was uncreative, and was a blatant pander, not to mention being offtheme given the "reinterpreted" part of the theme itself. For these reasons, I argue it is not art. Cute can be artistic, but art is about passion for something other than a green wallet lining. This is design at the most generous, because it only exists to sell.

There is plenty of cute stuff with social and artistic value. The only value this shirt has is in your and woot's pockets. People don't like cute. They like uncreative and easy to swallow. Because woot gets plenty of well done cute all the time, but it's only schlock like this that succeeds with it.


I'm going to watch a movie, this space reserved for rebuttal.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
DeadFrog wrote:I'm going to watch a movie, this space reserved for rebuttal.


This space reserved to say that whatever your rebuttal ends up being, it does not make your design creative.

shannangirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages shannangirl
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Why are there so many mean goober peas on this site?

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


We regret that we have but one Derby full of sound and fury while truth is putting on its shoes. Never before have so many stitches in time saved nine for so few. We had to destroy the village to layeth down in green pastures. This week, take a famous quotation and render it imaginatively in images. That means your Gettysburg Address quote should'nt be a picture of Abraham Lincoln giving a speech, 'kay? Just remember how it worked when we did this with song lyrics, and movie titles, and book titles, and TV show titles, and you should be fine. After all, if you can't say anything nice about a bird in the hand, let's roll!

Hrmm..I don't see reinterpreted anywhere. I see render it "imaginatively" in images. Now, as for what is or isn't imaginative, you're getting into a highly subjective and arbitrary zone.

Heck, their example of what NOT to do is poor because it's not illustrating the text of the quote, but the context.

On the other hand, I think this fails for flat out not representing the quote. Where's the evil?

omnitarian


quality posts: 15 Private Messages omnitarian
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I can't lie: I'm disappointed to see one of my favorite artists set aside their awesome imaginative/illustrative talents and take the path of least resistance with their derby entry.

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog
AdderXYU wrote:If you make a design for money alone, you are not an artist. I don't care how good it is.

Deadfrog has a lot of potential, but clearly he cares less about his potential and more about his potential paycheck.

And this continues to be so overdone it may as well be mistaken for charcoal.


Can't say much about the first line of the quote (money alone = not true artist), because that is a matter of opinion and that debate could go on until the Universe collapses in on itself. Gonna go with the same thing on the third line (charcoal).

But, that second line...

Wow, Adder, when did you become the expert on my husband's artistic potential? He cares less about his potential? Really? How do you know that? Do you know him personally? Are you two having secret conversations that I do not know about? Have you seen any of his art beyond his derby entires? No you haven't. You have no clue about anything he does beyond t-shirts. You don't know why he does what he does, because you do not actually ever converse with him and learn about his intentions or his ambitions. You are definitely not in a position to have any knowledge on this matter and yet you take it upon yourself to make blanket statements based on little to no knowledge about him and his art. Genius....

Now to the second part of that statement. The one about him caring more about his potential paycheck. Seriously? Do you have hidden cameras up in my home? It is getting kind of creepy with how much intimate knowledge you have on him. I saw someone else make a similar statement to this effect when he didn't submit for the derbies you run on the side. Try to understand the "why" before you ignite the torches and grab your pitchforks. I wish he did care more about the paycheck, because maybe we would be going into less debt for his MFA than we currently will be over the next two years.

Where are you when he does his "Artsy" designs? I don't see you around these parts too much when he does. Oh great god of all that is good and holy in t-shirt designs why hast thou forsaken him during those times? Why is it that you only come out of the woodwork when you are here to spew out false facts.

Don't like the design? Critique it. Rip it to shreds. I do all the time (especially on the cute ones). But you are in no position, nor do you have any authority to critique him as an artist. You show your true ignorance when you do.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
WidowFrog wrote:

Now to the second part of that statement. The one about him caring more about his potential paycheck. Seriously? Do you have hidden cameras up in my home? It is getting kind of creepy with how much intimate knowledge you have on him. I saw someone else make a similar statement to this effect when he didn't submit for the derbies you run on the side. Try to understand the "why" before you ignite the torches and grab your pitchforks. I wish he did care more about the paycheck, because maybe we would be going into less debt for his MFA than we currently will be over the next two years.


I have hidden cameras in your woot posts... hard to forget threads like these:

DeadFrog wrote:Cult followings don't generate enough profit. 10 rabid and vocal fans can't compete with the bulk of wooters who will vote for anything cute. And, while I am mildly ashamed of occasionally pandering to that crowd, you have to play to win or get off the field.


Honest. It's the same style as his other two wins, and you cannot argue that it is even vaguely creative. It was made to win. It is not art. It is marketing.

Also:
DeadFrog wrote:The art that I make as part of my artistic career is different from the designs I create to try and make a living as a T-Shirt designer.

I want my "art" to last longer than 100 times trough the dryer.

Edit: I'm not saying that I don't put all of my sadly neglected drawing and design skill into each piece. But I also try to create shirts that will get votes. And there are certain ways to attract votes...some of them easier than others.

Einstein defined insanity as: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It would also be foolish do do things that are wildly different and expect the same results.


And by Einstein's logic, if you get good results, like a win, DO THE SAME EXACT THING OVER AND OVER.

Your husband has excellent artistic skills WHEN HE USES THEM. And the amount of times he'd rather use his einstein quote to fight for a grand makes it hard to respect the times when he tries to use the skills he picked up.

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog
AdderXYU wrote:Honest. It's the same style as his other two wins, and you cannot argue that it is even vaguely creative. It was made to win. It is not art. It is marketing.

And by Einstein's logic, if you get good results, like a win, DO THE SAME EXACT THING OVER AND OVER.

Your husband has excellent artistic skills WHEN HE USES THEM. And the amount of times he'd rather use his einstein quote to fight for a grand makes it hard to respect the times when he tries to use the skills he picked up.


I didn't, nor will I, attempt to argue about anything specific to the actual design itself.

Nor do I agree in quoting quotes out of their context.

The amount of his designs that use "the skills he picked up" outnumber the amount of his designs that use Einstein's logic. How does that equate into you being able to infer that he cares more about the potential paycheck? You are making it sound like he only cares about a quick buck, that he is some sleazy used car sales man when it comes to art.

I'm sorry, but I don't like you coming here and attacking my husband's character by making blanket statements that falsely define him.

Ironically, I think you would like and "respect" him if you actually conversed with him instead of attacking him. I think understanding his motives would go a long way.

wugsby


quality posts: 4 Private Messages wugsby
DeadFrog wrote:Yay! Woot's very own mysteriously anonymous agent of mass reform appears to do justice upon this thread!


Mysteriously anonymous? I wasn't aware other woot posters gave away their personal info in order to make posts, my mistake.

Also, trying to cut me down does little to justify your unoriginal and formulaic design. Whatever "innovation" you may have with this design is the equivalent of the "innovation" a 6 year old introduces to coloring book page with his crayons. Congratulations.

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog

Forgot to switch from my wife's account since she stole my computer

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
wugsby wrote:Mysteriously anonymous? I wasn't aware other woot posters gave away their personal info in order to make posts, my mistake.


I was going for a "V" for Vendetta reference due to your prolific use of alliteration. Sorry if that didn't come across.

wugsby wrote:Also, trying to cut me down does little to justify your unoriginal and formulaic design. Whatever "innovation" you may have with this design is the equivalent of the "innovation" a 6 year old introduces to coloring book page with his crayons. Congratulations.


Innovation was not the issue--as the derby is about popular quotes. Innovation is also clearly not the goal of this design. The idea for various animals, gods, and mythical creatures making the Hear, See, and Speak No Evil gesture has been around almost as long as the saying itself. Countless variations have been created using everything from frogs to bottle openers. Several even involve pandas.



I took a classic concept and, using a style that to my knowledge is uniquely my own, illustrated it. Yes it's a famous quote. Yes it's been illustrated before. No, it is not stealing some other designer's hard earned intellectual property.

paulkremer


quality posts: 4 Private Messages paulkremer
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I'm not trying to sound mean, but this is beyond boring. I've seen this concept done so many times in so many ways it isn't funny, and while it isn't "bad" this is just....boring. The scratchy style just doesn't work here...it seems to be there for no other reason than just to be there.

In short, a boring design without even the slightest hint of originality. But I suppose it doesn't matter...who needs to spend all that time actually looking through a bunch of quotes and using one's imagination? Taking the first quote that pops into your head and doing the same old thing that a million (possibly literally) other people have done is good enough. I suppose you could claim it was "your take" on it, but that doesn't make it interesting.

At least the TMNT shirt was fun. This has nothing going for it besides being a blatant marketing attempt. Honestly, I hope this design doesn't make it, and not because I am mean-spirited. I just hope that stuff like this flops so that designers with talent don't start pandering. Every time stuff like this wins, Woot gets a little worse.

ZombieGorilla


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ZombieGorilla
AdderXYU wrote:If you make a design for money alone, you are not an artist. I don't care how good it is.


Wow, that is so wrong.

First off, money isn't and end to itself, but it is definitely part of the process. No artist creates "just for money", but it is generally speaking and aspect of being successful. Being successful as an artist encompasses recognition of your work/name/style, the most common is people purchasing your work. More sales means increasing recognition, which leads to the opportunity to devote more time and energy to producing more art. There is also the simple joy and satisfaction you get from people admiring your work. If they are willing to pay for it and wear/display it, that is a true sign of admiration.

Secondly, people love to make claims about what a "true artist" is. But it is generally nonsense. Simply put, an artist is one who creates art. There is no qualifier as to why they create it.

Lastly, and most importantly, most every well-known artist (generally speaking of visual artists, but it applies to other forms as well) is remembered because they were a successful commercial artist. And they were successful because they had a consistent marketable style. Michelangelo, Norman Rockwell, the Wyath(s), Warhol (who actually was skilled at drawing, but that is not why he was successful), CM Russell, an so on. Do you think that any of those artists would have been as prolific or achieved the level of skill they had if they had not made a career out of it? Being successful not only encompasses recognition, but growth and improvement of your craft. Financial success allows you to just that.

You don't have to be commercially successful to be an artist, but in no way does it disqualify you. And whatever personally drives one to create art, is irrelevant (except of course, to the artist themselves)

This particular style of deadfrog's is successful and people like it. It is appealing and recognizable as his work. He obviously has other styles and not limited to just this. But if it sells and affords him the opportunity to continue and focus on creating more art (through financial success), then he is doing what pretty much every successful artist has done throughout history. Kudos.

I had the opportunity several years back to study under Northwest Master, Bill Cumming. A wonderful experience to say the least, he is quite a character. One my favorite things he used to say is "A real artist is a working artist. If Michelangelo was born this century, he would be doing comic books."

ZG.




Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
ZombieGorilla wrote:Wow, that is so wrong.

First off, money isn't and end to itself, but it is definitely part of the process. No artist creates "just for money", but it is generally speaking and aspect of being successful. Being successful as an artist encompasses recognition of your work/name/style, the most common is people purchasing your work. More sales means increasing recognition, which leads to the opportunity to devote more time and energy to producing more art. There is also the simple joy and satisfaction you get from people admiring your work. If they are willing to pay for it and wear/display it, that is a true sign of admiration.

Secondly, people love to make claims about what a "true artist" is. But it is generally nonsense. Simply put, an artist is one who creates art. There is no qualifier as to why they create it.

Lastly, and most importantly, most every well-known artist (generally speaking of visual artists, but it applies to other forms as well) is remembered because they were a successful commercial artist. And they were successful because they had a consistent marketable style. Michelangelo, Norman Rockwell, the Wyath(s), Warhol (who actually was skilled at drawing, but that is not why he was successful), CM Russell, an so on. Do you think that any of those artists would have been as prolific or achieved the level of skill they had if they had not made a career out of it? Being successful not only encompasses recognition, but growth and improvement of your craft. Financial success allows you to just that.

You don't have to be commercially successful to be an artist, but in no way does it disqualify you. And whatever personally drives one to create art, is irrelevant (except of course, to the artist themselves)

This particular style of deadfrog's is successful and people like it. It is appealing and recognizable as his work. He obviously has other styles and not limited to just this. But if it sells and affords him the opportunity to continue and focus on creating more art (through financial success), then he is doing what pretty much every successful artist has done throughout history. Kudos.

I had the opportunity several years back to study under Northwest Master, Bill Cumming. A wonderful experience to say the least, he is quite a character. One my favorite things he used to say is "A real artist is a working artist. If Michelangelo was born this century, he would be doing comic books."

ZG.


You've written a well thought out description as to why trying to earn money can be a part of an artist's motivation. You also seem to be responding to what you think Adder meant, rather than what Adder said, which was this:

AdderXYU wrote:If you make a design for money alone, you are not an artist. I don't care how good it is.


Far be it from me to speak for Adder, but I have to agree with his statement. Designing for money alone isn't art, it isn't even craft, it is just working on a time-clock.

Baath


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Baath
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


It's a good design but everyone knows exactly what this is when they see it, because it's been done this way so many times before. As for the other shirts in this derby, their interpretations require a little thought to be put forth, while this one anyone can look at it and recite the quote. Not fun.

ZombieGorilla


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ZombieGorilla
Josephus wrote:Far be it from me to speak for Adder, but I have to agree with his statement. Designing for money alone isn't art, it isn't even craft, it is just working on a time-clock.


Drawing/Designing "for money alone", pretty much is a logical impossibility. It is a skill which requires years of practice and study to get to a level to make a money at it. You have to have an interest in it to begin down that path. That statement doesn't apply to any working artist/designer. And even if it did, As I said, motivation is irrelevant. An artist is someone who creates art. A successful artist is one who creates art that is appealing. These are simply the definitions of the word. An opinion that differs doesn't change that fact.

As far as craft goes:


Noun
craft (countable and uncountable; plural craft or crafts)
1. (countable, plural: crafts) The skilled practice of a practical occupation.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/craft

Designing(drawing, painting, scupting, etc...) for money is very the definition craft. That is simply what the word means. I can state very clearly that an automobile is a small flightless bird often and with conviction, but it simply ain't so.

further clarification:

Noun
artist (plural artists)
1. A person who creates art.
2. A person who creates art as an occupation.
3. A person who is skilled at some activity

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/artist


Noun
art (countable and uncountable; plural arts)
1. (uncountable) Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
2. (uncountable) The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colours, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
3. (uncountable) Activity intended to make something special.
4. (uncountable) A re-creation of reality according to the artist's metaphysical value judgements.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/art

Artist, art and craft. None of these words speaks to motivation. Even if someone was and artist solely for money, it makes no difference, the definitions of these words are pretty straight forward. You may personally have a lower opinion of a artist whose motivations you disagree with, but you simply cannot say they are not an artist or that it is not art. They are an artist you don't respect, or art that that you don't like, but art and artist just the same.

---

I can only assume that Deadfrog won't claim to be illustrating only for money, but even if he makes that claim it doesn't change anything. If he does claim to actually have an interest in art regardless of money, the original statement is moot and out of context.

---

The Sistine Chapel, decades of Saturday Evening Post covers, The Last Supper, and hundreds of thousands of famous paintings, prints, buildings and sculptures were created under contract, they were not personal projects. They were explicitly created by commercial artists hired to create those works. Would you claim they are not art?


Sorry to go on about this, but it is frustrating to see an artist attacked personally and ignorant/false claims hurled about simply because you don't like the particular piece/style.

If you don't like the piece, say so. Be nice and don't be jerk by making false statements intended to belittle.




mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
HeartlineTwist wrote:We regret that we have but one Derby full of sound and fury while truth is putting on its shoes. Never before have so many stitches in time saved nine for so few. We had to destroy the village to layeth down in green pastures. This week, take a famous quotation and render it imaginatively in images. That means your Gettysburg Address quote should'nt be a picture of Abraham Lincoln giving a speech, 'kay? Just remember how it worked when we did this with song lyrics, and movie titles, and book titles, and TV show titles, and you should be fine. After all, if you can't say anything nice about a bird in the hand, let's roll!


DF and WF, implicit in both of your arguments this entire time is that you generally agree that this is unoriginal, pandering work just to make money. While you may disagree that there is anything wrong with that (and most of your posts have been spent defending this aspect), I also don't know why you would expect the community who is here for talented, inspired work to embrace this apcray with loving arms?

As for the quote above, you have done exactly what woot said not to do. You took the quote and simply illustrated it with absolutely no original input from yourself. You can argue again, much like you did with the TMNT design, that because you drew it slightly different than others already have it's now completely original but it still isn't. You can rest assured that woot probably won't reject this and you'll have your check by the end of the week, so there's no need to pretend that this has artistic merit.

As a side note, I find it pretty funny that none of your supporters think it has any artistic merit either. They just want a simple cute shirt that everyone will recognize immediately.

marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
ZombieGorilla wrote:http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/art

Artist, art and craft. None of these words speaks to motivation.


1. (uncountable) Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.


you contradict yourself sir! it would be easier to digest your "well thought out" rebuttal if it was actually well thought out and you didnt shoot yourself down.

everything else i wanted to say has already been said.

i hate this design, and i hate the fact that it is winning.

everytime a design likes wins, it chokes the creativity and artistry out of this site. pretty soon this site will be no better than cafe press. goodbye drakxxx, hello kitty


Jestik


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Jestik


I'm not much on negative energy, but I just wanted to tell DeadFrog I'm really disappointed this week. I'm a big fan of some of your work, so when I see entries like this, I feel let down and a little cheated.

I know you can do so much more with your talent and potential, I wish you'd show us.

No offense intended, DF. I wish you luck.

LonChaney


quality posts: 1 Private Messages LonChaney
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I thought rain dancer was very pretty. Would like to see more like that from you. I could buy this in chinatown for 5 bucks if I wanted it. Doesn't seem aproporiate to enter in an art contest.

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
mrwednesday wrote:DF and WF, implicit in both of your arguments this entire time is that you generally agree that this is unoriginal, pandering work just to make money. While you may disagree that there is anything wrong with that (and most of your posts have been spent defending this aspect), I also don't know why you would expect the community who is here for talented, inspired work to embrace this apcray with loving arms?

As for the quote above, you have done exactly what woot said not to do. You took the quote and simply illustrated it with absolutely no original input from yourself. You can argue again, much like you did with the TMNT design, that because you drew it slightly different than others already have it's now completely original but it still isn't. You can rest assured that woot probably won't reject this and you'll have your check by the end of the week, so there's no need to pretend that this has artistic merit.

As a side note, I find it pretty funny that none of your supporters think it has any artistic merit either. They just want a simple cute shirt that everyone will recognize immediately.


Actually, no, they DIDN'T do what the quote says not to. Pick me ANY quote from the Gettysburg Address and then justify how drawing Lincoln talking is that quote. In other words, what they're saying NOT to do is illustrate who said it/the context it was said in. This is a depiction of the words of the quote. That is on theme.

As for this and The Epic Begins, I would argue the two are entirely different, even if similar in style, but that's a topic that was beat to death in the respective thread.

As for immediate recognition, I wouldn't say that's a BAD thing about any design. But that doesn't mean I approve of this design just because DF has shown that he is capable of so much more. As recently as last week, even.

ZombieGorilla


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ZombieGorilla
marmls2m wrote:you contradict yourself sir! it would be easier to digest your "well thought out" rebuttal if it was actually well thought out and you didnt shoot yourself down.


Huh?

Artist, art and craft. None of these words speaks to motivation.

1. (uncountable) Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.


No contradiction there at all. "Human effort to.." means attempt to, as in what is being done. The word motivation means reason for acting. That definition you quoted describes the WHAT it is, motivation is the WHY you are doing it. Unless you meant to quote something else, this is pretty much grade school english. (I apologize if you are a non-native speaker)

Again, none of those words speaks to motivation, except craft which is often synonymous with trade.





marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m

a bunch of rejections just came down for things not being quotes, or famous enough to constitute famous quotes. here is another reason this design deserves a rejection

http://searchwarp.com/swa2800.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/4932/the_origins_of_see_no_evil_hear_no.html

not that it means much, but not rejecting this entry would be really hypocritical


itsbeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages itsbeth
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Oh look, pander bears.

jondeere89


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jondeere89
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


It seems a little cliche to me... We've seen the scratchy style many times, and this idea is used in so many things, shirts included. It's cute, but it seems to lack originality.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
HeartlineTwist wrote:Actually, no, they DIDN'T do what the quote says not to. Pick me ANY quote from the Gettysburg Address and then justify how drawing Lincoln talking is that quote. In other words, what they're saying NOT to do is illustrate who said it/the context it was said in. This is a depiction of the words of the quote. That is on theme.

As for this and The Epic Begins, I would argue the two are entirely different, even if similar in style, but that's a topic that was beat to death in the respective thread.

As for immediate recognition, I wouldn't say that's a BAD thing about any design. But that doesn't mean I approve of this design just because DF has shown that he is capable of so much more. As recently as last week, even.


Your major issue is that you seem to be fairly incapable of understanding the intention of something and not just taking every word for it's literal meaning.

Given that "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" isn't even a quote the comparison absolutely does hold. The phrase is a description of the statue just as The Gettysburg Address is a description of Lincoln giving a speech there. All he's done is drawn the concept just as drawing Lincoln talking is just drawing the concept.

Also, given the rejection of the butterfly design, this should absolutely be rejected as well because it's no more different than The LWW shirt as mentioned above. We all know that woot will never reject fairly or consistently so this will make it to print, but there is a wealth of evidence from the community and from woot itself why this shouldn't have been left up long enough to make the fog much less be here now.

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
mrwednesday wrote:Your major issue is that you seem to be fairly incapable of understanding the intention of something and not just taking every word for it's literal meaning.

Given that "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" isn't even a quote the comparison absolutely does hold. The phrase is a description of the statue just as The Gettysburg Address is a description of Lincoln giving a speech there. All he's done is drawn the concept just as drawing Lincoln talking is just drawing the concept.

Also, given the rejection of the butterfly design, this should absolutely be rejected as well because it's no more different than The LWW shirt as mentioned above. We all know that woot will never reject fairly or consistently so this will make it to print, but there is a wealth of evidence from the community and from woot itself why this shouldn't have been left up long enough to make the fog much less be here now.


Your first point is self defeating. Since when do you get to be the arbiter of what Shirt.Woot did and didn't intent to be on topic and off topic? On top of that, if we're not expecting them to hold to the letter of the derby, then there's really no room to argue fair/unfair rejections because their intentions aren't bound to the letter.

As for your next paragraph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys

Now, if you want to argue that the statue preceded the proverb, then fine, but the Wikipedia article makes reference to a couple of different places where this is in fact used as a quote.

This isn't me even saying this shouldn't be rejected. Nor was that quote saying it shouldn't be rejected.

bobichka


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bobichka
Jestik wrote:I'm not much on negative energy, but I just wanted to tell DeadFrog I'm really disappointed this week. I'm a big fan of some of your work, so when I see entries like this, I feel let down and a little cheated.

I know you can do so much more with your talent and potential, I wish you'd show us.

No offense intended, DF. I wish you luck.


What he said.

sefjwm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sefjwm
Jestik wrote:I'm not much on negative energy, but I just wanted to tell DeadFrog I'm really disappointed this week. I'm a big fan of some of your work, so when I see entries like this, I feel let down and a little cheated.

I know you can do so much more with your talent and potential, I wish you'd show us.

No offense intended, DF. I wish you luck.


hoho sad part is when artist do really good work or try hard they don't get the votes. Instead they get beat by cute and uninspired designs week after week. Once in a blue moon does something that isn't cute or a pop culture reference win here. I saw the thumbnail and laughed this week. I said to myself, "look cute pandas, I bet that gets fogged right away," and sure enough it did.

I have to agree with both sides of this argument. Am I tired of cute and uninspired designs winning all the time, yes. Do I understand where df is coming from and why he submitted this work for this week, yes. Take it for what it is.

sekiyuko


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sekiyuko

Despite what many of you think, this isn't an art gallery; it's "a web site that applies the Woot model to selling t-shirts." It's always nice that there are so many talented subers though, and I'm really loving the passion of this discussion, so keep it coming!

DF, GMV (a favorite of the son)

RaefWolfe


quality posts: 1 Private Messages RaefWolfe
DeadFrog wrote:I took a classic concept and, using a style that to my knowledge is uniquely my own, illustrated it.


You and every walmart across america.

I like a couple of your shirts, but loathe the distressing on them. They're like every faux-faded crummy manufactured shirt, instead of a true work of art. Your rain dancer would have been beautiful if not for the distressing. As it is, if I wanted my shirts to look worn...I'd wear them.

I like your designs, usually, even the turtle one...but feel this should be rejected for the same reason the grenade and the butterflies were rejected.

KaylaJ


quality posts: 22 Private Messages KaylaJ
krankykitty wrote:Cute, but... been done with monkeys, frogs, and various other animals.

In other words, cute but really unoriginal.

At least it's not on asphalt...


as a kid i had one with bears.

mr96crabs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mr96crabs
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


there is alot of really long posts by people who didnt enter... everyone is a critic.

erei


quality posts: 0 Private Messages erei
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


You can't help that people (consumers) in general prefer a simple cute shirt over something really well thought out and well rendered. If we're lucky we get the latter, but usually people will vote for the witty cute thing instead.

Don't blame the artist, they're just trying to win, lol. If you have a gripe, tell the 1000+ wooters that are voting for the shirts every week?

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
erei wrote:If we're lucky we get the latter, but usually people will vote for the witty cute thing instead.


Witty?!?!?! These "cute" shirts are never witty. They are anti-witty in fact. They are down right childish and brain numbingly stupid. You think Oscar Wilde would wear a shirt with cute apcray on it? Unbelievable. The real reason people cling to cute things is as I stated above, they have a biological need that collecting proxy cute things fills. It has nothing to do with how "witty" they are, because they never are.

danib62


quality posts: 11 Private Messages danib62
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


This design is so unoriginal it's not even funny. I think it's been done with monkeys and almost everything else before.

danib62


quality posts: 11 Private Messages danib62
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Wow and lookee here! I found the exact same t-shirt for sale but with monkeys instead! Very creative you!

danib62


quality posts: 11 Private Messages danib62
danib62 wrote:Wow and lookee here! I found the exact same t-shirt for sale but with monkeys instead! Very creative you!


For some reason the image didn't post so here is the URL: http://www.zazzle.com/hear_see_speak_no_evil_sock_monkeys_tshirt-235160725938346109.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
danib62 wrote:Wow and lookee here! I found the exact same t-shirt for sale but with monkeys instead!


Possibly because I illustrated a famous quote.

MattC331


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MattC331
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Can we please cut it out with the Japanese cutesy apcray and have some art? I mean, really--put some thought into it. Don't just slap up a panda or rabbit for some twenty-something chippie to wear to her next basket weaving class at "art college." "Look at me--I'm a sexy, but I'm showing my inner Japanese schoolgirl. Don't you want me?"

Hell, MANGA doesn't annoy me this much.

MattC331


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MattC331
mr96crabs wrote:there is alot of really long posts by people who didnt enter... everyone is a critic.


No, I didn't enter. I'm just a consumer--y'know, someone who buys stuff?-- who gets tired of this trite garbage winning all the time.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
HeartlineTwist wrote:Your first point is self defeating. Since when do you get to be the arbiter of what Shirt.Woot did and didn't intent to be on topic and off topic? On top of that, if we're not expecting them to hold to the letter of the derby, then there's really no room to argue fair/unfair rejections because their intentions aren't bound to the letter.


This does not in any way shape or form mean they shouldn't be. This should have been rejected along with the free as the butterflies design.

HeartlineTwist wrote:As for your next paragraph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys

Now, if you want to argue that the statue preceded the proverb, then fine, but the Wikipedia article makes reference to a couple of different places where this is in fact used as a quote.


The quote isn't what's famous. The statue is famous. The image is famous. It's not about who happened to say the words later on.

HeartlineTwist wrote:This isn't me even saying this shouldn't be rejected. Nor was that quote saying it shouldn't be rejected.


Yes, I know. It is your unwavering inability to resist playing devil's advocate for designs that have no support because they deserve none. People might take you more seriously if you believed what you said.

DeadFrog wrote:Possibly because I illustrated a famous quote.


No, you illustrated a famous design. It looks so much like every other design because you reproduced it here with absolutely no interpretation. Or was that what the distressing was.....your interpretation? Because it's old mirite.....

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Josephus wrote:Far be it from me to speak for Adder, but I have to agree with his statement. Designing for money alone isn't art, it isn't even craft, it is just working on a time-clock.


You summed it up perfectly, sir.

There are two sorts of art. There is art you make for you. This can be sold, but it doesn't matter if it is. You wanted to create that art, and you did, and that is enough.

When you get to stuff like Michelangelo, who was indeed commissioned to paint the Sistine Chapel, he took that commission and made a masterpiece. No one who knows the story of the Sistine Chapel is going to say Michelangelo didn't bleed for it, didn't pour himself out in it. In the final judgment fresco, he includes a man who has become nothing more than a suit of skin. That was him. That was how he felt about taking on a commission for some vain and stupid client. But he poured his entire body into it, and made it a work of art. That's what makes that art... the fact that he put that much passion into a commission he resented.

DeadFrog may have Michelangelan skills hiding somewhere, but he does not have his work ethic. He may resent having to cater to the audience he is tossed in, but instead of creating a Sistine Chapel, he has created a Sistine Water Closet.

It's also worth noting that these are different times. In the Renaissance, artists were commissioned out of a love for art. The commissions came from wealthy and powerful places which desired something truly magnificent. It still needed to involve the principles of what makes art art: the passion and the individuality. You'd better believe there are hundreds to thousands of painters from that era with tiny legacies if any, because they painted for clients without ever painting for themselves, or for the love of the art. The pieces that have lasted are not just still renowned for skill: they are renowned because that skill was used to create pieces worth respecting. Michelangelo isn't the only art in that Chapel, but who cares about all the other pieces?

Now, however, people get into design for the money. There are designers like Jimiyo, who (at least used to) take clients. I don't for a second believe that he looks on his client work and says "yeah, this is some great work". But he also designs for himself, and when he does, you can see far more passion come through. And while Pony Up or 1977 may not sell as much on woot as his Zombie Pander or his Patriotic Eagle, they show an artist who is working because he loves creating art above and beyond commissions. But I think many modern designers can't allow themselves to work freely. Not for no money freely, but for themselves freely. Everything is with client in mind. It's design by numbers. And that is not art any more than paint-by-numbers is.

An artist who wishes to make money off their work is fine. They can take commissions, especially if they're willing to hold them to as high a standard as possible. But a true artist doesn't start changing the art they create to make money. They either fight until what they believe in and their audience click, or they pack up and try to find a new audience. If you're a country band trying to make a living in NYC, you either accept small crowds, or you try and tour in the south, where people are more apt to naturally love what you do naturally. If you change your style to be what everyone wants, you have no honesty in your art, and art requires honesty.

So yes. I stand by exactly what I said. If your only reason to create art is in the potential payout to come out of your skills, you are not an artist. If you'd like to hone that into something more palatable, no piece you create with the sole intention of money or other compensation is art. You can learn the skills to create art without being an artist, or caring about art. Just like you can learn the skills to making a mcdonalds burger without caring about being a frycook.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
mrwednesday wrote:No, you illustrated a famous design. It looks so much like every other design because you reproduced it here with absolutely no interpretation. Or was that what the distressing was.....your interpretation? Because it's old mirite.....


Yeah, in ancient times statues were always made before the principles behind them were thought of. Just because the guy wasn't an American doesn't mean he didn't exist.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
DeadFrog wrote:Yeah, in ancient times statues were always made before the principles behind them were thought of. Just because the guy wasn't an American doesn't mean he didn't exist.


Very good, sidestep the entire issue that whether or not someone said this in the past or didn't, it is famous because of the imagery and your reproduction of it is no different than anyone else's. It's totally working. *wink*

Ghaleon256


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Ghaleon256

I don't like it.

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
re: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil


DF, I'm a fan, but I wish this design were kicked out for the same reason the butterflies were.

Mrs. Frog, I know that you obviously love and want to defend your husband. He's always come across as a really amiable fellow on these forums, and I'm sure he's a great human being . . . however, his being a great guy doesn't preclude this design being a blatant retread pander. I'm sorry all the criticism has hurt your feelings (I mean this with the utmost sincerity--no sarcasm intended; it's really hard to hear the ones we love be criticized). This can be a really harsh place, as you've no doubt seen firsthand. That being said, I think most of the criticism, while tough, has been fair.

As to you, Adder, it's good to have you back, man

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog

Adder you seem to have gotten the PG version of Art History. That's all well and good. Mikey did what he did because in those days the word of the Pope was law. The Pope's good friend Da Vinci, convinced him to force Michelangelo to paint the ceiling as a move to shame Michelangelo and thus end the artist's career.

Michelangelo, although a sculptor by training who hated painting, did what he had to do to survive. He did the ceiling and he did it well--not because it was what he wanted to do, but so that his actual artistic goals could later be realized.

That's all I'm doing here.

I appreciate all of the positive support from those of you who like the design. I happen to like it myself

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
DeadFrog wrote:Adder you seem to have gotten the PG version of Art History. That's all well and good. Mikey did what he did because in those days the word of the Pope was law. The Pope's good friend (and some claim lover) Da Vinci, convinced him to force Michelangelo to paint the ceiling as a move to shame Michelangelo and thus end the artist's career.

Michelangelo, although a sculptor by training who hated painting, did what he had to do to survive. He did the ceiling and he did it well--not because it was what he wanted to do, but so that his actual artistic goals could later be realized.

That's all I'm doing here. Painting for the Pope.


I guess just so we are clear, every time you are strapped for cash we can expect three cute, distressed figures side by side?

A yes or no would suffice.

edit:

It's not that I really have anything against people who pander. I understand it and I disagree with it, but there's nothing that can really be done because there is no way to reach the voters. What's insulting is when it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and everyone knows it's a duck to pretend it's a bird of paradise.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
mrwednesday wrote:I guess just so we are clear, every time you are strapped for cash we can expect three cute, distressed figures side by side?

A yes or no would suffice.


As a poor college student I've been strapped for cash for the last 10 years. That and my naturally competitive nature fuel all of my designs. You can expect me to compete in these derbies to win voter support every time I enter. You can also expect me to produce designs that I hope will capture the attention and affection of voters, as this one clearly has.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
DeadFrog wrote:Adder you seem to have gotten the PG version of Art History. That's all well and good. Mikey did what he did because in those days the word of the Pope was law. The Pope's good friend Da Vinci, convinced him to force Michelangelo to paint the ceiling as a move to shame Michelangelo and thus end the artist's career.

Michelangelo, although a sculptor by training who hated painting, did what he had to do to survive. He did the ceiling and he did it well--not because it was what he wanted to do, but so that his actual artistic goals could later be realized.

That's all I'm doing here.


I bolded the important passages.

No one is forcing you to enter at woot. And this entry is not done well. Michelangelo did what he had to do to survive by doing the best damn painting he had in him. DaVinci, as you say, tried to shame Michelangelo, but history clearly states he failed. You are making extra money by doing the least you can get away with. And I think it's obvious here that there are plenty of people who would say that, by taking on the challenge "forced" upon you, you buckled under pressure and failed, unlike Mr. Buonarroti.

It is incomparable. Unless you are prepared to say that either Michelangelo's art was apcray, or this shirt is on par with the greatest masters. And even then, there is the fact that no one is forcing you to enter at woot.

\

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog
IndependentVik wrote:DF, I'm a fan, but I wish this design were kicked out for the same reason the butterflies were.

Mrs. Frog, I know that you obviously love and want to defend your husband. He's always come across as a really amiable fellow on these forums, and I'm sure he's a great human being . . . however, his being a great guy doesn't preclude this design being a blatant retread pander. I'm sorry all the criticism has hurt your feelings (I mean this with the utmost sincerity--no sarcasm intended; it's really hard to hear the ones we love be criticized). This can be a really harsh place, as you've no doubt seen firsthand. That being said, I think most of the criticism, while tough, has been fair.

As to you, Adder, it's good to have you back, man


Mr. Vik, I assure you my feelings are not hurt. I really could care less what people have to say about the actual design. I do care when blanket, all encompassing, this-is-who-Deadfrog-is statements are made that are false.

Last time I checked Dig that Cat's Fro, The Epic Begins, and this one do not cement who my husband is as an artist. Really? 3 designs out of the plethora of YAY REAL ART designs make the statements that I refute to be true.. true? (the statement about his potential and the statement about him ONLY EVER caring about the potential paycheck are the two that I have addressed...)

Hate the design. Be angry at him for doing it. But, I do not believe that this design gives Adder or anyone else the authority to define what his artistic motives or his artistic potential have been, are, or will be.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
AdderXYU wrote:I hate pandas!

I can hardly believe that you compared the ancient masters to t-shirt design in the first place.

Adder, doing it well means winning public support in this case. This isn't an art competition jurored by the museum director of the MOMA, it's a t-shirt design contest voted on by regular people. Success is determined by whether or not the design appeals to the largest number of real people.

I can't make people vote Adder. Someday you're going to face the fact that most people don't agree with you and that you do not represent the voice of the majority.

We may never agree on what makes a design valid, but in this contest, it's the votes.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
WidowFrog wrote:Mr. Vik, I assure you my feelings are not hurt. I really could care less what people have to say about the actual design. I do care when blanket, all encompassing, this-is-who-Deadfrog-is statements are made that are false.

Last time I checked Dig that Cat's Fro, The Epic Begins, and this one do not cement who my husband is as an artist. Really? 3 designs out of the plethora of YAY REAL ART designs make the statements that I refute to be true.. true? (the statement about his potential and the statement about him ONLY EVER caring about the potential paycheck are the two that I have addressed...)

Hate the design. Be angry at him for doing it. But, I do not believe that this design gives Adder or anyone else the authority to define what his artistic motives or his artistic potential have been, are, or will be.


"Dear Jury, this evidence we have of three separate occasions where my client ate babies does NOT make him a baby eater. Please recall that there were HUNDREDS of times when he worked in pediatric rehab saving children. My client assures me those babies were eaten as necessity, not out of bloodlust. It is therefore unreasonable that you judge him on these past transgressions, which there is unfortunate evidence of, and instead judge him on all the other work he has done, for there is the real man. This man is a lover of children, not an eater of them, no matter what those three eaten babies might imply."

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
DeadFrog wrote:I can hardly believe that you compared the ancient masters to t-shirt design in the first place.






Three quick examples. Ancient masters, maybe not. But art, undeniably.

Shirts can be art, and art can certainly exist on shirts. To say otherwise is a fallacy

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog
AdderXYU wrote:"Dear Jury, this evidence we have of three separate occasions where my client ate babies does NOT make him a baby eater. Please recall that there were HUNDREDS of times when he worked in pediatric rehab saving children. My client assures me those babies were eaten as necessity, not out of bloodlust. It is therefore unreasonable that you judge him on these past transgressions, which there is unfortunate evidence of, and instead judge him on all the other work he has done, for there is the real man. This man is a lover of children, not an eater of them, no matter what those three eaten babies might imply."


Really? You are comparing this to eating babies?

Is this you wanting me or anyone for that matter to take you seriously?

Honestly, I do not get you. From what I perceive you believe you are on some righteous crusade to convert the sinful artistic masses. And this is how you are going to go about doing it? I want to think you are a smart man, but this... makes me question that.

You remind me of the "enlightened" man from Plato's allegory of the cave. He went back into the cave to share his enlightenment with all the chained up ignorant people. He didn't convince anyone... and some argue that it had to do with the way he went about doing the convincing...

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
WidowFrog wrote:Really? You are comparing this to eating babies?

Is this you wanting me or anyone for that matter to take you seriously?


Worked for Swift.

i am saying that, if we see evidence that your husband is a panderer (and this shirt is excellent evidence) it doesn't matter what he really is. That is what he is showing us. If you want to take the analogy literally, that is fine. It's what your husband does to win derbies, after all. But I don't think it was too hard to understand the point.

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
mrwednesday wrote:Very good, sidestep the entire issue that whether or not someone said this in the past or didn't, it is famous because of the imagery and your reproduction of it is no different than anyone else's. It's totally working. *wink*


"In Chinese, a similar phrase exists in the Analects of Confucius: "Look not at what is contrary to propriety; listen not to what is contrary to propriety; speak not what is contrary to propriety; make no movement which is contrary to propriety" (非禮勿視, 非禮勿聽,非禮勿言, 非禮勿動).[1] It may be that this phrase was shortened and simplified after it was brought into Superspryteachu! I choose you!."

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Analects#Part_12

I mean, really, the best point of attack against this design isn't arguing that it isn't a quote, it isn't arguing the similarity of the design to the LWW design (which, funnily enough, also angered people because it was hardly a re-interpretation of a book title), and isn't raging against the style.

It simply is not an imaginative rendering of the quote. I mean, I suppose you could spin an imaginative rendering if you had something violent happening to Cerberus or something, but...

The other thing that strikes me about this design is that I don't see a representation, implicit or explicit of the evil that the pandas are trying to avoid.

I mean, that's part of why I occasionally stroll in making random defenses of certain designs because a majority of the attacks/criticisms of the designs are so focused on "RAWR, REJECT THIS" that they tend to overlook the best/most apparent reasons for rejecting it.

EDIT:

There is a filter for the island country off the eastern coast of Asia in the north Pacific? Wow, Woot, wow...

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog
AdderXYU wrote:Worked for Swift.

i am saying that, if we see evidence that your husband is a panderer (and this shirt is excellent evidence) it doesn't matter what he really is. That is what he is showing us. If you want to take the analogy literally, that is fine. It's what your husband does to win derbies, after all. But I don't think it was too hard to understand the point.


I believe I was addressing the manner in which you decided to respond. I don't think it was too hard to understand that point.

"A Modest Proposal," like your arguments, was little more than bitter commentary.

Edit: I get it.. You are going to tell me I am all wrong with some insults thrown into the mix. The end. Unless we want to continually circle with this, or you are really that adamant that the board readers view you as being right... I don't think it is worth arguing with me anymore.

haishasan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages haishasan
HeartlineTwist wrote:"
There is a filter for the island country off the eastern coast of Asia in the north Pacific? Wow, Woot, wow...


Also appalled.

Since I am in Asia, I feel I can speak for the pandas. Sorry Adder, they approve. And they are grateful for the time zone difference so they don’t have to stay up late to make sure they get their shirts before they sell out…

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
WidowFrog wrote:I believe I was addressing the manner in which you decided to respond. I don't think it was too hard to understand that point.

"A Modest Proposal," like your arguments, was little more than bitter commentary.

Edit: I get it.. You are going to tell me I am all wrong with some insults thrown into the mix. The end. Unless we want to continually circle with this, or you are really that adamant that the board readers view you as being right... I don't think it is worth arguing with me anymore.


I agree. It is pointless to argue that this shirt is uncreative and unartistic with you, since you've now admitted to being so wrong not only about art, but literature as well. Unless you'd like to explain how Rubber Soul was a meaningless platter of Tripe, and go for a trifecta.

It is the last I will say on the topic. You win.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog
AdderXYU wrote:I agree. It is pointless to argue that this shirt is uncreative and unartistic with you, since you've now admitted to being so wrong not only about art, but literature as well. Unless you'd like to explain how Rubber Soul was a meaningless platter of Tripe, and go for a trifecta.


Just because it was funny and you read it in your high school literature class doesn't mean it changed anything for the starving Irish kids.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
HeartlineTwist wrote:"I mean, really, the best point of attack against this design isn't arguing that it isn't a quote, it isn't arguing the similarity of the design to the LWW design (which, funnily enough, also angered people because it was hardly a re-interpretation of a book title), and isn't raging against the style.

It simply is not an imaginative rendering of the quote. I mean, I suppose you could spin an imaginative rendering if you had something violent happening to Cerberus or something, but...

The other thing that strikes me about this design is that I don't see a representation, implicit or explicit of the evil that the pandas are trying to avoid.

I mean, that's part of why I occasionally stroll in making random defenses of certain designs because a majority of the attacks/criticisms of the designs are so focused on "RAWR, REJECT THIS" that they tend to overlook the best/most apparent reasons for rejecting it.

EDIT:

There is a filter for the island country off the eastern coast of Asia in the north Pacific? Wow, Woot, wow...


The fact that it is unimaginative and uncreative and not different from any other rendering of the quote is the first thing I brought up. The fact that it is all of those other things as well is simply more evidence against it continuing to avoid the rejection woot has already set a precedent for giving. The major issue is that woot hasn't rejected anything in recent time for being completely uninspired or at least it's only done so when it shouldn't have and has always left the real offenders alone. I know not why.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog

I'd like to thank ZombieGorrilla for coming to my defense earlier in the thread. You wrote some really great stuff about what art is that I am only now going back and reading all the way through.

Thanks,
DeadFrog

WidowFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages WidowFrog
AdderXYU wrote:I agree. It is pointless to argue that this shirt is uncreative and unartistic with you, since you've now admitted to being so wrong not only about art, but literature as well. Unless you'd like to explain how Rubber Soul was a meaningless platter of Tripe, and go for a trifecta.

It is the last I will say on the topic. You win.


And here is the last I have to say about this:

I am wrong about art, because you say so? Right... because that makes sense.

What you believe to be the definition of what makes a person a true artist or what is true art is just an opinion. It is not fact. Do try to remember that. And because someone thinks differently than you does not mean that they are wrong. Try to remember that too.

Otherwise, please point me into the direction of the grand historical event where it was agreed upon and decreed that you Adder were the only correct authority on what constitutes art.

imsochady


quality posts: 26 Private Messages imsochady
AdderXYU wrote:



Three quick examples. Ancient masters, maybe not. But art, undeniably.

Shirts can be art, and art can certainly exist on shirts. To say otherwise is a fallacy


I could make something like these given a month or two

MJDeViant


quality posts: 1 Private Messages MJDeViant
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I think the bulk of everyone's problem is the voters. I'm not saying the voters are idiots, in fact I voted for this, I'm just saying you can't be mad at DF for what sells. In reality, they are what you are angry with, not really DeadFrog. I personally like the design. It's not some crazy original piece but it's nice and I, as many, happen to like pandas. It's like movies, some people like sequels that I think are horrible, but they like them because they have the same things from the first, know what I mean? Can't be mad at the studio for putting them out because obviously that's what the people wanted. Also, I think a lot of people would be lying if they said they didn't want $1000. If that's so, just make designs by yourself and don't put them in t-shirt design contests. As for myself? I would LOVE $1000, I'm trying to win it with every entry(very unsuccessfully) BUT I'm happy with just tinkering in my downtime at work and having fun.

Let the boring call you crazy.
Let the crazy call you boring.

sefjwm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sefjwm
AdderXYU wrote:



Three quick examples. Ancient masters, maybe not. But art, undeniably.

Shirts can be art, and art can certainly exist on shirts. To say otherwise is a fallacy



Heh I've seen DF make stuff very similar to the second one. Doesn't mean that sort of design works on Woot. It may work on Threadless but then again this is Woot and therefore a different audience.

mfulkron80


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mfulkron80

emp1346


quality posts: 1 Private Messages emp1346
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


the lack of originality and effort that went into this is really amazing...

4kat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages 4kat
HeartlineTwist wrote: Superspryteachu! I choose you!."



EDIT:

There is a filter for the island country off the eastern coast of Asia in the north Pacific? Wow, Woot, wow...


I may be wrong, but I believe Superspryte, a volunteer moderator for Woot, lives in J.A.P.A.N. Funny filter Woot!

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
mfulkron80 wrote: Monkeys and Penguins that Hear no Evil

Nuff Said.




That right there is enough to get most entries rejected. Add to that the fact that it looks nearly exactly like another shirt the designer printed already (what Kduece got rejected for THIS derby) and you have two very strong reasons why this should be rejected and people who actually tried this week should be rewarded instead.

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Some of the defenders of this shirt just trip me out. They will argue, or simply not address the fact, that his shirt is an obvious retread that took little effort (same style as previous winning entry, with the little figures all lined up in a row, as well as the same distressing feature used before). In addition, it's not a novel interpretation of the famous quotation; if it were, the former problem could probably be overlooked.

And to attack the primary person who points this out (Adder) by making comparisons to the allegory of the cave? You might not like how the person who stepped out of the cave is arguing, that he's too abrasive, but what you do not consider--and I can't believe that you'd disregard this since your side is the one who originally alluded to this particular allegory--is that the man who came back from outside the cave is right.

Also, Swift's writing may not have saved all the starving children, but it brought attention to their plight, it raised awareness. The satirist can only do but so much; it's up to society itself to reform after hearing from the enlightened messenger (I can't believe we're actually talking about this--yay for derailed threads--but I couldn't let such a big swipe at the guy go by).

deebaser


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deebaser

People need to stop hating and drop the pretense. "Originality" and "art" do not mean jack diddles if it doesn't actually look good on a t-shirt.

There is some really nice art on this site that I've bought solely to cut out and frame because I would look like a massive tool wearing the piece in shirt form.

DF's high-vote designs appeal to the plebes that actually buy the shirts. Personally, I wouldn't wear this one, but I voted for it and will buy it for my god daughter because she likes the cute woot shirts.

I love everything about this shirt.
I just can't see wearing it.
Also I dislike the color...
... and the graphic.
/end typical shirt.woot commenter (Csmos)

deebaser


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deebaser
IndependentVik wrote:Some of the defenders of this shirt just trip me out. They will argue, or simply not address the fact, that his shirt is an obvious retread that took little effort...


I didn't read to far into this thread, but seriously, people are apparently bashing a T-shirt design with reference and comparison to Plato, Swift, and Michaelangelo and you're tripped out by the DEFENDERS?

Just to clarify for the artists, the button at the top left says "I'd want this". It does not say "This is a stunning and original piece that belongs in the Met". Votes and commerce count. The rest is out of place.

I love everything about this shirt.
I just can't see wearing it.
Also I dislike the color...
... and the graphic.
/end typical shirt.woot commenter (Csmos)

Finley4


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Finley4
deebaser wrote:I didn't read to far into this thread, but seriously, people are apparently bashing a T-shirt design with reference and comparison to Plato, Swift, and Michaelangelo and you're tripped out by the DEFENDERS?

Just to clarify for the artists, the button at the top left says "I'd want this". It does not say "This is a stunning and original piece that belongs in the Met". Votes and commerce count. The rest is out of place.


The problem with your "argument" it's based on the idea that wearability is mutually exclusive from creativity and originality. There's lots of wearable design that are also creative and original. This is not one of them. It's sad that wearability is the argument most often used to defend cutesy, thoughtless junk when a creative and original design CAN be wearable as well. One doesn't cancel out the other.

bellarific


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bellarific
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I'm guessing by the length of the comments here that there's already a load of controversy circling this shirt, so I'm not going to elaborate on my general disapproval of your M.O., DeadFrog.

I can't exactly explain what my reaction was when I came here a minute ago to check the derby and saw that your shirt was STILL fogging. Sigh.

deebaser


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deebaser
Finley4 wrote:The problem with your "argument" it's based on the idea that wearability is mutually exclusive from creativity and originality. There's lots of wearable design that are also creative and original. This is not one of them. It's sad that wearability is the argument most often used to defend cutesy, thoughtless junk when a creative and original design CAN be wearable as well. One doesn't cancel out the other.


You miss the point. It isn't that the two (or three) are mutually exclusive. It's that there is only one criteria that ultimately matters and that criteria is "Would you want this on a shirt".

Make something creative and original that would look awesome on a shirt and the masses will click for that one as well.

It doesn't matter who thinks DF's work is hack, it's what the people want. Complaining about the taste of people in a design competition is about as useful as yelling at clouds.

Maybe you should buy something, then you'll be able to vote for any design you deem worthy.

I love everything about this shirt.
I just can't see wearing it.
Also I dislike the color...
... and the graphic.
/end typical shirt.woot commenter (Csmos)

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987

I don't like this design, but wow, some of the complaints against it are way over the top. If it prints, I won't buy it, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it making the top 3.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
imsochady wrote:I could make something like these given a month or two


Could you make something like these given a day or two?
http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=4912
http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=7737
http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=8943
http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=6732
http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=7841

I ask because you seem to pooh-pooh the other designs based on the fact that the designer likely spent quite a bit of time to make them that good. So I ask: are these designs not also arguably art? Because not a one of them could possibly have taken more than six days to create.

sefjwm wrote:Heh I've seen DF make stuff very similar to the second one. Doesn't mean that sort of design works on Woot. It may work on Threadless but then again this is Woot and therefore a different audience.


I hear there is this smart dude who said something like "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results". I wish there was an easy way to reference the quote. Anyway, I think that smart dude would say that if person A can do work like person B, and person B gets printed at Threadless, perhaps person A would do better creating what they want to make and submitting it at Threadless. Not doing so would be, er, insane. one more reason this is pandering... it's not like he doesn't have other outlets to NOT pander at. He just wants the quick grand... Threadless does NOT pay quick enough or reliably enough.

deebaser wrote:You miss the point. It isn't that the two (or three) are mutually exclusive. It's that there is only one criteria that ultimately matters and that criteria is "Would you want this on a shirt".

Make something creative and original that would look awesome on a shirt and the masses will click for that one as well.

It doesn't matter who thinks DF's work is hack, it's what the people want. Complaining about the taste of people in a design competition is about as useful as yelling at clouds.



Ah, so you say it's a design competition? To me, design competitions are about more than "do I like it." It needs to qualify as a design, first. Composition and creativity should come into play. And of course, there's wearability. But all shirts are wearable, to someone, just as all shirts are unwearable to someone. Better to judge on the composition and creativity. because there is more to design than "do I want this on a shirt". Much more. It obviously boils down to more than "I want one," or else woot would never reject anything.

Unless you're really strongly for 12 year olds in hoochie outfits, facepainted mall goths, and your grandmother's cat sweater. Because really, if people want to wear it, that is the only worth fashion has, right?

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
Finley4 wrote:

That right there is enough to get most entries rejected. ...


I'm really wondering whether there can be a good justification to keep this design in the derby, considering that this very similar shirt is for sale elsewhere already. I can't wait to hear woot explain why they are different- the order isn't the same, is that enough difference?

woot?

me2you


quality posts: 1 Private Messages me2you
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Amazing that so many quotes came to mind while glancing over an overdose of drama:

"Any fool can paint a picture, but it takes a wise man to be able to sell it." ~Samuel Butler

"Jealousy... is a mental cancer." ~B.C. Forbes

"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." ~Abraham Lincoln

;-)

deebaser


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deebaser
AdderXYU wrote:Ah, so you say it's a design competition? To me, design competitions are about more than "do I like it." It needs to qualify as a design, first.


It really doesn't matter what you do or don't consider a design. Derbies are 100% about what people 'like'.


AdderXYU wrote:
And of course, there's wearability. But all shirts are wearable, to someone, just as all shirts are unwearable to someone. Better to judge on the composition and creativity. because there is more to design than "do I want this on a shirt". Much more.


Lacking the existence of a system that's specifically catered to your taste and sensibilities, woot decided to go with "Hey, let's print the 3 that get the most votes!".


AdderXYU wrote:
It obviously boils down to more than "I want one," or else woot would never reject anything.


Unfortunately, AdderXYU must like it isn't a rule.


AdderXYU wrote:
Unless you're really strongly for 12 year olds in hoochie outfits, facepainted mall goths, and your grandmother's cat sweater. Because really, if people want to wear it, that is the only worth fashion has, right?


Yawn. I'm not going to complain that the local Hot Topic doesn't carry Brooks Brothers suits.

Whatever, you're right. People like apcray. If it bothers you that much find a medium where the crowd standouts aren't whatever the "Lime in the Coconut" shirt was called or the "cake is a liar". Otherwise you're just yelling at clouds.

I love everything about this shirt.
I just can't see wearing it.
Also I dislike the color...
... and the graphic.
/end typical shirt.woot commenter (Csmos)

iris420


quality posts: 1 Private Messages iris420
deebaser wrote:I didn't read to far into this thread, but seriously, people are apparently bashing a T-shirt design with reference and comparison to Plato, Swift, and Michaelangelo and you're tripped out by the DEFENDERS?

Just to clarify for the artists, the button at the top left says "I'd want this". It does not say "This is a stunning and original piece that belongs in the Met". Votes and commerce count. The rest is out of place.


I think the real issue here is that another entry got rejected for being a retread of a previously printed design. This is also a retread of a previously printed design, and yet remains in the fog. It's not the quality of the art (which I'll refrain from talking about because I wouldn't say anything good), it's the hypocrisy of the rejectionater that is making so many people upset. Seems like every other derby involves this kind of hypocrisy now.

Carpe shirtem!

marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
iris420 wrote:I think the real issue here is that another entry got rejected for being a retread of a previously printed design. This is also a retread of a previously printed design, and yet remains in the fog. It's not the quality of the art (which I'll refrain from talking about because I wouldn't say anything good), it's the hypocrisy of the rejectionater that is making so many people upset. Seems like every other derby involves this kind of hypocrisy now.


not to mention this is not a famous quote, but it is leading the competition for famout quotes illustrated


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
iris420 wrote:I think the real issue here is that another entry got rejected for being a retread of a previously printed design. This is also a retread of a previously printed design, and yet remains in the fog. It's not the quality of the art (which I'll refrain from talking about because I wouldn't say anything good), it's the hypocrisy of the rejectionater that is making so many people upset. Seems like every other derby involves this kind of hypocrisy now.


marmls2m wrote:not to mention this is not a famous quote, but it is leading the competition for famout quotes illustrated


I don't think this is really a retread of DF's previously printed design(s). The style is the same, but the subject matter is different.

I also don't see where people are coming from when they argue that this isn't a famous quotation. I don't see how that's being argued at all.

The big problem with this design is that there's no originality here at all. Animals covering eyes, ears and mouth have always been the way this maxim is depicted. It's been done in many mediums, including shirts. It's been done with many animals, including pandas. It's been done on shirts with pandas. It's been done.

There are a lot of points I agree with on both sides, and there are a lot of points I disagree with. But I don't see how Woot can possibly justify keeping this design in the derby. This is nothing against DF - I think he's a great guy who has done some great work. It's just that this design goes against the very purpose of shirt.woot - to provide shirts you can't get anywhere else. I know shirt.woot hasn't always kept up with the ideal but this remaining in the fog is just plain ridiculous.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:I don't think this is really a retread of DF's previously printed design(s). The style is the same, but the subject matter is different.

I also don't see where people are coming from when they argue that this isn't a famous quotation. I don't see how that's being argued at all.

The big problem with this design is that there's no originality here at all. Animals covering eyes, ears and mouth have always been the way this maxim is depicted. It's been done in many mediums, including shirts. It's been done with many animals, including pandas. It's been done on shirts with pandas. It's been done.

There are a lot of points I agree with on both sides, and there are a lot of points I disagree with. But I don't see how Woot can possibly justify keeping this design in the derby. This is nothing against DF - I think he's a great guy who has done some great work. It's just that this design goes against the very purpose of shirt.woot - to provide shirts you can't get anywhere else. I know shirt.woot hasn't always kept up with the ideal but this remaining in the fog is just plain ridiculous.


if this is a famous quote, who said it first? where did they say it? who did they say it to? famous messages worded differently does not constitute a famous quote. a quote is word for word what someone had previously stated. so i ask you again, who said it first?


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:if this is a famous quote, who said it first? where did they say it? who did they say it to? famous messages worded differently does not constitute a famous quote. a quote is word for word what someone had previously stated. so i ask you again, who said it first?


I don't think we can attribute the phrase to any person in particular - you're right about that. But if you look at the derby description, you'll see that Woot is looking for proverbs and maxims just as much as (if not more than) attributable quotations. I would much prefer it if it was just quotations (especially lines from great literature), but that's not Woot was going for with this theme.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:I don't think we can attribute the phrase to any person in particular - you're right about that. But if you look at the derby description, you'll see that Woot is looking for proverbs and maxims just as much as (if not more than) attributable quotations. I would much prefer it if it was just quotations (especially lines from great literature), but that's not Woot was going for with this theme.


fork in the road got reject because it was not a famous quote. how can you explain that?


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:fork in the road got reject because it was not a famous quote. how can you explain that?


Rejectionator craziness? There's some discussion in the thread for both the rejected entry and the resub. Also consider "early bird" and "the devil is in the details". Or do they have attributable sources? I'm actually not sure.

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AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
eHalcyon wrote:I don't think this is really a retread of DF's previously printed design(s). The style is the same, but the subject matter is different.

I also don't see where people are coming from when they argue that this isn't a famous quotation. I don't see how that's being argued at all.


It is arguable that "dig that cat's fro":See No Evil::Urban Painter:Butterflies.

Urban painter was a dude painting fish. The colors were muddy and dull. This week's piece was bright and vibrant, and used butterflies. But the concept was the same. The positioning was near-identical. And the style was no different from most of kdeuce's work.

LWW was based on the lion the witch and the wardrobe. this is based on see no evil etc. But the concept is pretty basic: take something, and illustrate it extremely literally. The positioning for the former and the latter are both three individual drawings placed on the chest in the same manner. The style is identical. I think there is more than enough to hang it there, given kdeuce's (totally correct) rejection.

But we do definitely agree: there should be enough evidence for rejection JUST in how overdone this concept is. there are pandas performing this action for sale on a shirt. That is GROUNDS FOR REJECTION. I don't know what woot is waiting for. Maybe the Frog couple has convinced them that this is so overdone that it's not fair to reject them for lack of creativity? After all, HUNDREDS of see no evil shirts exist. How can one more be wrong?

imsochady


quality posts: 26 Private Messages imsochady
AdderXYU wrote:

I ask because you seem to pooh-pooh the other designs based on the fact that the designer likely spent quite a bit of time to make them that good...


This inference of yours from my comment is a tad bit off. I am merely leaving a remark regarding my own skills. If I rephrased my previous comment like so, "Wow, these designs are great! These people probably made them in a week or two, or even in a day or two. I could make something like these given a month or two," then I don't think such a defense is necessary. I find it astounding that I had to defend this simple comment construed as some sort of pooh-poohing of other great designs.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
AdderXYU wrote:LWW was based on the lion the witch and the wardrobe. this is based on see no evil etc. But the concept is pretty basic: take something, and illustrate it extremely literally. The positioning for the former and the latter are both three individual drawings placed on the chest in the same manner. The style is identical. I think there is more than enough to hang it there, given kdeuce's (totally correct) rejection.


Well, the concept isn't "take something and illustrate it literally". That's more of a method. The concept in LWW was "this is a lion, a witch and a wardrobe". The concept here is "this is a panda seeing no evil, a panda hearing no evil..." So by "virtue" of having weak concepts to begin with, I feel that the two are distinct.

It's a real shame that DF's previous wins and this design, which is on track to win unless it gets rejected, are all among his worst designs conceptually. He's done quite a lot of amazing work that should be recognized.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:Rejectionator craziness? There's some discussion in the thread for both the rejected entry and the resub. Also consider "early bird" and "the devil is in the details". Or do they have attributable sources? I'm actually not sure.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_in_the_Details

the early bird is indeed a proverb. much like fork in the road

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_in_the_road_(metaphor)


thoughtitwas


quality posts: 0 Private Messages thoughtitwas
Finley4 wrote:

That right there is enough to get most entries rejected. Add to that the fact that it looks nearly exactly like another shirt the designer printed already (what Kduece got rejected for THIS derby) and you have two very strong reasons why this should be rejected and people who actually tried this week should be rewarded instead.


except in DF's design, the pandas' arms don't look deformed...

mfulkron80


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mfulkron80
eHalcyon wrote:I don't think we can attribute the phrase to any person in particular - you're right about that. But if you look at the derby description, you'll see that Woot is looking for proverbs and maxims just as much as (if not more than) attributable quotations. I would much prefer it if it was just quotations (especially lines from great literature), but that's not Woot was going for with this theme.


It is a proverb

It is a proverb, very arguably not really a famous quote at all.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_in_the_Details

the early bird is indeed a proverb. much like fork in the road

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_in_the_road_(metaphor)


The wiki page for "God is in the details" states that there is no definitive source; it's been attributed to several people, and even then most agree that they weren't the originators. "Fork in the road" actually isn't the full quotation used by kdubbs, but arguably his illustration doesn't convey that full quotation.

But again, look at the derby description. Woot packed it full of proverbs and other such phrases.

thoughtitwas wrote:except in DF's design, the pandas' arms don't look deformed...


Um, in DF's design, the pandas are very much cartoon representations. They are very much deformed, as are many cartoons. Either way, the other shirt is still more than enough cause for an auto-rejection - deformed arms or not.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
mfulkron80 wrote:It is a proverb

It is a proverb, very arguably not really a famous quote at all.


Yes. That is what I said. And I also said that, going by Woot's description of the theme, proverbs are perfectly fine. That isn't a good reason for rejection. "Similar shirts exist" is the one we should be drilling.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:Yes. That is what I said. And I also said that, going by Woot's description of the theme, proverbs are perfectly fine. That isn't a good reason for rejection. "Similar shirts exist" is the one we should be drilling.


the bottome line here is that there are three or four weak reasons why this shirt should be rejected, and what we need is really just one strong one.

i think similar shirts exist wouldnt work because if this being a proverb and very simple to illustrate, theres no way they would lose a copyright infringement case. case in point, there are literally thousands of designs like this one, and they didnt infringe upon eachother.


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:the bottome line here is that there are three or four weak reasons why this shirt should be rejected, and what we need is really just one strong one.

i think similar shirts exist wouldnt work because if this being a proverb and very simple to illustrate, theres no way they would lose a copyright infringement case. case in point, there are literally thousands of designs like this one, and they didnt infringe upon eachother.


Ah, but the "similar shirts exist" reason for rejection isn't because of copyright infringement. Consider the rejection of skirochester's mickey mouse design. That was a rejection for potential copyright infringement, not because something similar already exists. On the flip side, consider the rejection of oh so many dandelion designs (for example, in the Air derby). Since they are just dandelions and SO many such shirts exist, there really is no case for copyright infringement there. But they were rejected anyway, because similar shirts exist.

"Similar" is subjective and up to Woot to decide, but sometimes it is so obvious that there really can't be any argument about it. This is one of those times. It's a strong reason for rejection.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:Ah, but the "similar shirts exist" argument isn't due to copyright infringement. Consider the rejection of skirochester's mickey mouse design. That was a rejection for potential copyright infringement, not because something similar already exists. On the flip side, consider the rejection of oh so many dandelion designs (for example, in the Air derby). Since they are just dandelions and SO many such shirts exist, there really is no case for copyright infringement there. But they were rejected anyway, because similar shirts exist.

"Similar" is subjective and up to Woot to decide, but sometimes it is so obvious that there really can't be any argument about it. This is one of those times. It's a strong reason for rejection.


the dandelion rejections were arbitrary, much like flying penguins. but most of the time "similar shirts exist elsewhere" is because of copyright. "someone has done it first, therefore we are not allowed to do it again." unless the idea, conception, or execution is distinct enough to warrant a new product, such as ramyb's music pirate as compared to its threadless counterpart


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:the dandelion rejections were arbitrary, but like flying penguins. but most of the time "similar shirts exist elsewhere" is because of copyright. "someone has done it first, therefore we are not allowed to do it again." unless the idea, conception, or execution is distinct enough to warrant a new product, such as ramyb's music pirate as compared to its threadless counterpart


What about generic "fake body" or "fake suit" designs? Those are also rejected out of hand because similar shirts exist, but they're so common that there's no case for copyright infringment on those either. The dandelion rejections weren't arbitrary. If you were to enter a dandelion design that incorporated MORE than just the seed puffs, it would not be rejected. With the flying penguins, the design would have been rejected if it involved penguins flying, no matter how unique the full concept was.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:What about generic "fake body" or "fake suit" designs? Those are also rejected out of hand because similar shirts exist, but they're so common that there's no case for copyright infringment on those either. The dandelion rejections weren't arbitrary. If you were to enter a dandelion design that incorporated MORE than just the seed puffs, it would not be rejected. With the flying penguins, the design would have been rejected if it involved penguins flying, no matter how unique the full concept was.


i meant the decision to enact a rule to reject any dandelion designs was arbitrary, like flying penguin. there was no good reason to make those rules, but they did it anyway


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:i meant the rule to reject any dandelion designs was arbitrary, like flying penguin. there was no good reason to make those rules, but they did it anyway


There isn't a rule to reject ANY dandelion design. The dandelion designs were rejected because there are already many existing shirts featuring dandelion puffs. As I said, if you create a shirt with a dandelion on it as part of a larger concept, it would not be rejected. When the flying penguin rule was in effect, any design with a flying penguin was automatically rejected. There's a difference.

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SailorButterfly


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SailorButterfly
Finley4 wrote:

That right there is enough to get most entries rejected. Add to that the fact that it looks nearly exactly like another shirt the designer printed already (what Kduece got rejected for THIS derby) and you have two very strong reasons why this should be rejected and people who actually tried this week should be rewarded instead.


I know Joel has rejected for less similarities than this shirt has with that one.
Ugh, I hate inconsistent rejections!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Most Awesome Butterfly-Sailor Hybrid on Woot"

marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:There isn't a rule to reject ANY dandelion design. The dandelion designs were rejected because there are already many existing shirts featuring dandelion puffs. As I said, if you create a shirt with a dandelion on it as part of a larger concept, it would not be rejected. When the flying penguin rule was in effect, any design with a flying penguin was automatically rejected. There's a difference.


Rejected because: I think the dandelion tufts blowing in the wind has been well covered in the world of t-shirts.

Rejected because: No seriously, there are enough dandelion fluff shirts already.


i guess this is up for interpretation, but it seems to me to say, regardless of layout, design, color, size placement, if you submit a design with a dandelion tuft blowing in the wind, we will reject you. much like the flying penguin "rule".

I'm a reasonable guy. I weigh the evidence. I keep a level head. But I've hit the tipping point.

These irritatingly cute, ill-proportioned, impractical birds and their fruitless quest for flight have caused me nothing but headaches. The last two or three times they've been submitted, they've brought with them controversy and ill will.

They're BANNED. No more. Put it in the virtual book of derby rules.

Rule: 62 section b: No flying penguins, be it of their own volition or through the assistance of any kind of mechanical device. Some things just aren't natural.


jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
eHalcyon wrote:What about generic "fake body" or "fake suit" designs? Those are also rejected out of hand because similar shirts exist, but they're so common that there's no case for copyright infringment on those either. The dandelion rejections weren't arbitrary. If you were to enter a dandelion design that incorporated MORE than just the seed puffs, it would not be rejected. With the flying penguins, the design would have been rejected if it involved penguins flying, no matter how unique the full concept was.


I object! The dandelion rejections seemed pretty arbitrary. I recall the explanation was something like "there are enough dandelion shirts out there" on mine, and then "seriously, no more dandelion shirts" on another one... not "there are many dandelion shirts just like this one ==link==".

Vote!


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:i guess this is up for interpretation, but it seems to me to say, regardless of layout, design, color, size placement, if you submit a design with a dandelion tuft blowing in the wind, we will reject you. much like the flying penguin "rule".


Interpretation it is then. I'm basing my interpretation on numerous other such rejections I've seen since I started watching the derbies. The flying penguin rejection is the only one I've seen that was absolutely out of left field, and Joel explained himself that it was just an irrational hatred (as you quoted). The dandelion shirts were not accompanied by such a comment and numerous derby regulars (myself included) informed the designers of those shirts that they were likely to be rejected because similar shirts exist.

Anyway, I think we've discussed this far enough. In the end, we both agree that the shirt should be rejected. Heh.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
jasneko wrote:I object! The dandelion rejections seemed pretty arbitrary. I recall the explanation was something like "there are enough dandelion shirts out there" on mine, and then "seriously, no more dandelion shirts" on another one... not "there are many dandelion shirts just like this one ==link==".


But many people linked you examples of similar shirts. They are literally all over the internet, and you were warned by derby regulars that the dandelion design was likely to be rejected. "Similar shirts exist" need not be accompanied by a link. With the more common ideas (pong, fake body/tuxedo, video game heart life meter, dandelions), no link is provided.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:Interpretation it is then. I'm basing my interpretation on numerous other such rejections I've seen since I started watching the derbies. The flying penguin rejection is the only one I've seen that was absolutely out of left field, and Joel explained himself that it was just an irrational hatred (as you quoted). The dandelion shirts were not accompanied by such a comment and numerous derby regulars (myself included) informed the designers of those shirts that they were likely to be rejected because similar shirts exist.

Anyway, I think we've discussed this far enough. In the end, we both agree that the shirt should be rejected. Heh.


as a side note, check this graphic out from the wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ThreeWiseMonkeysOriginal.svg

from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_no_evil,_hear_no_evil,_speak_no_evil

i dont know about you, but to me thats a dead ringer for this shirt's pop art stye


jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
eHalcyon wrote:But many people linked you examples of similar shirts. They are literally all over the internet, and you were warned by derby regulars that the dandelion design was likely to be rejected. "Similar shirts exist" need not be accompanied by a link. With the more common ideas (pong, fake body/tuxedo, video game heart life meter, dandelions), no link is provided.

Right... and they were all different shirts to me (and those who liked my design, as posted after the rejected), none were similar other than the subject matter was dandelions in the air... all drawn differently, presented differently. That same day, quick brown fox was for sale, and there were other shirts of the same subject (just drawn by a different artist in their style), and that's happened many other times too. I know you may not agree, but that was an inconsistent and arbitrary rejection in my book, considering some of the things already done that are not rejected.

Vote!


Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
thoughtitwas wrote:except in DF's design, the pandas' arms don't look deformed...


ture. they look like blobs, not like arms at all. These arms might look deformed from human arms, but I think they aren't bad for panda arms.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:i guess this is up for interpretation, but it seems to me to say, regardless of layout, design, color, size placement, if you submit a design with a dandelion tuft blowing in the wind, we will reject you. much like the flying penguin "rule".


eHalcyon wrote:Anyway, I think we've discussed this far enough. In the end, we both agree that the shirt should be rejected. Heh.


Erm, an addendum.

I do agree with your paraphrasing - "regardless of layout, design, color, size placement, if you submit a design with a dandelion tuft blowing in the wind, we will reject you". Because regardless of all that stuff, the other dandelion shirts are STILL similar. This wasn't the case with flying penguins - there, they would be rejected even if a unique concept was provided. If there is a unique concept, "similar shirts exist" does not apply. There was no unique concept with the dandelion shirts, and neither is there with this design here.

marmls2m wrote:as a side note, check this graphic out from the wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ThreeWiseMonkeysOriginal.svg

from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_no_evil,_hear_no_evil,_speak_no_evil

i dont know about you, but to me thats a dead ringer for this shirt's pop art stye


Not sure. DF has used the style in both of his previous wins - the LWW design and the TMNT design. Similar style is not necessarily a reason for rejection either.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
jasneko wrote:Right... and they were all different shirts to me (and those who liked my design, as posted after the rejected), none were similar other than the subject matter was dandelions in the air... all drawn differently, presented differently. That same day, quick brown fox was for sale, and there were other shirts of the same subject (just drawn differently), and that's happened many other times too. I know you may not agree, but that was an inconsistent and arbitrary rejection in my book, considering some of the things already done that are not rejected that have been done.


It's my opinion that QBF should have been rejected as well, but the headband on the fox does make it ever-so-slightly different in concept. It's weak, I know. But "dandelion tufts" is nothing new. Again, many derby veterans told you that it would be rejected. It wasn't an arbitrary rejection; there is plenty of precedence. That some other designs were not rejected is NOT precedence, because Woot unfortunately lets plenty of chaff through.

We argue that Woot should be more consistent, yes, but that means rejecting MORE of the questionable material - not letting things pass because they did so mistakenly in the past.

Edit: I just wanted to clarify that I mean no ill will towards you, jasneko. From what I've seen of you in the forums, you have a very bright and enthusiastic personality that is pleasantly refreshing. I mentioned the dandelions as an example because it is relatively recent.

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HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
marmls2m wrote:if this is a famous quote, who said it first? where did they say it? who did they say it to? famous messages worded differently does not constitute a famous quote. a quote is word for word what someone had previously stated. so i ask you again, who said it first?


"In Chinese, a similar phrase exists in the Analects of Confucius: "Look not at what is contrary to propriety; listen not to what is contrary to propriety; speak not what is contrary to propriety; make no movement which is contrary to propriety" (非禮勿視, 非禮勿聽,非禮勿言, 非禮勿動).[1] It may be that this phrase was shortened and simplified after it was brought into Superspryteachu! I choose you!."

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Analects#Part_12

That's good enough for me. Especially because it sounds possible that this predates the "statue".

I mean, Confucius is pretty famous, especially when we're talking about REAL Confucius quotes.

People's problems is that Woot seems selective in their rejections only so far as it suits Woot. Yes, all it takes to vote is "I'd Want One", but that's NOT what the Derby is about. If it were, there would be no rejections except for maybe like infringement or color limitations. That's simply not the case.

I mean, there are two or three solidly legit reasons to reject this shirt, without even dealing with consistency. I'm curious as to why that call is not being made.

jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
eHalcyon wrote:I do agree with your paraphrasing - "regardless of layout, design, color, size placement, if you submit a design with a dandelion tuft blowing in the wind, we will reject you". Because regardless of all that stuff, the other dandelion shirts are STILL similar.

I think that what you are saying is highly subjective - just your opinion, perhaps as a non-dandelion lover? As all the people who wanted to buy that shirt, as posted after the rejection said - the other dandelion shirts that existed weren't something similar enough that they wanted to buy them.
Why is a fox jumping over a dog drawn in another artist's style considered any less similar? (and this isn't saying I think that TQBF should have been rejected.. I'm just staying, it's not consistent, and the dandelion rejection was indeed arbitrary because it's a more commonplace subject).

eHalcyon wrote:It's my opinion that QBF should have been rejected as well, but the headband on the fox does make it ever-so-slightly different in concept. It's weak, I know. But "dandelion tufts" is nothing new. Again, many derby veterans told you that it would be rejected. It wasn't an arbitrary rejection; there is plenty of precedence. That some other designs were not rejected is NOT precedence, because Woot unfortunately lets plenty of chaff through.

Do you see your logic here? If a headband on a fox makes it different, then having no stems on my dandelions should make it different as all the other dandelion designs out there. I think you're not a dandelion lover;) All the people who wanted to buy it found it different - they didn't want to buy the other ones for sale.
Also derby veterans predicting it will be rejected after the design is finished - doesn't really change the fact that it's inconsistent?

eHalcyon wrote:We argue that Woot should be more consistent, yes, but that means rejecting MORE of the questionable material - not letting things pass because they did so mistakenly in the past.
Maybe so, but that's still unfair - and stinks when it's your first fogged design and that day there's a shirt for sale that's also out there.

DF - sorry to clog up your thread here. I think your design is cute, but I'm not that happy about the inconsistency of rejections on "what's out there" already.

Vote!


krisrobinson


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krisrobinson
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I've never seen anything quite like this submission thread!


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
jasneko wrote:Do you see your logic here? If a headband on a fox makes it different, then having no stems on my dandelions should make it different as all the other dandelion designs out there. I think you're not a dandelion lover;) All the people who wanted to buy it found it different - they didn't want to buy the other ones for sale.
Also derby veterans predicting it will be rejected after the design is finished - doesn't really change the fact that it's inconsistent?


I said it was weak. The logic goes like this though - the headband makes it about exercise (the fox exercising) as opposed to just a fox jumping over a dog. Having no stem doesn't change the concept even slightly - it's still a dandelion for the sake of having a dandelion on a shirt. Again, the key thing is concept.

And actually, I am a fan of dandelions, for sentimental reasons...

All of the people who said they would buy yours and not the others - that's nothing new. Every time a shirt is rejected - especially a popular shirt - people complain. Most of these people are not derby regulars and don't understand the rules of the derby. All they know is that they wanted something, and now they can't have it. The thing to keep in mind is that when multiple derby regulars tell you that your design is too similar to existing shirts, it probably is.

I'll echo your apology to DF. I'm not quite sure how we ended up on this far-removed discussion. And in case you missed my edit on my last post, I mean no ill will towards you, jasneko. I find your (usually ) bright and optimistic presence in the forums very refreshing.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
krisrobinson wrote:I've never seen anything quite like this submission thread!



You don't read the forums enough then.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
HeartlineTwist wrote:
That's good enough for me. Especially because it sounds possible that this predates the "statue".

I mean, Confucius is pretty famous, especially when we're talking about REAL Confucius quotes.


im glad thats good enough for you.

unfortunately the word and concept of a quote are pretty rigidly defined. as an example, see above where i quoted a section of your post. your quote is word for word exactly what you wrote, not an interpretation, not an approximation, not a paraphrase, not interjected with my own opinion. the opinions of a chonically overspoken devils advocate with an annoyingly long graphic in their signature do little to nothing to alter the definition of a quote.

seriously, shorten your damn signature


jujub32122


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jujub32122
unchained wrote:One Trick Pony.


i dont see you making any cute shirts. why dont you just quit criticizing and admit you love it! hoho :p
btw i love this one trick ponys shirts!
i will be getting this one! :D

jujub32122


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jujub32122
emp1346 wrote:how so... unoriginal...


wow thats rude. at least try to help instead of just being a jerk.
obviously this "unoringinal" style people like so take notes.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
jujub32122 wrote:i dont see you making any cute shirts. why dont you just quit criticizing and admit you love it! hoho :p
btw i love this one trick ponys shirts!
i will be getting this one! :D


~Proclamation that not making a shirt makes ones opinion invalid from someone who has also not made shirts

~Implication that contempt can only come from jealousy

~Admission that designer is one-trick pony from fan

~exclamation that this is acceptable and worthy of monetary support without further reasoning

All in one post, why woot shouldn't let this be a popularity contest any longer.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
krisrobinson wrote:I've never seen anything quite like this submission thread!



That's probably because your triple-submission got rejected early like it should have been

jujub32122


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jujub32122
byrbwr wrote:remember the pander tree? this is the panda tree. and it's sad.

one trick pony? certainly. does it matter to the half-witted voter? definitely not.

here's your average voter:

"doh de doh. i'm a moron. hey look! it's three pandas, i like pandas, they're the fluffy version of monkeys! who do i send my check to?"


hey buddy why dont you take the stick out of your butt and quit being a jerk. and i wouldnt go dissing voters because they are what make the shirts famous. f.y.i people dont vote for jerks that call them morons.

krisrobinson


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krisrobinson
AdderXYU wrote:That's probably because your triple-submission got rejected early like it should have been


Ooooooh the burn! It hurts!

beefzaweef


quality posts: 0 Private Messages beefzaweef
marmls2m wrote:fork in the road got reject because it was not a famous quote. how can you explain that?


Because it is not, you doofus. It is a figure of speech, at best a metaphor. It's no closer to being a famous quote or a proverb than the word 'rocket scientist'.

marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
beefzaweef wrote:Because it is not, you doofus. It is a figure of speech, at best a metaphor. It's no closer to being a famous quote or a proverb than the word 'rocket scientist'.


yes, you are correct, it is not a quote. and neither is "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". thank you for reinforcing my point, which you missed, and laying an insult on me.


HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
marmls2m wrote:im glad thats good enough for you.

unfortunately the word and concept of a quote are pretty rigidly defined. as an example, see above where i quoted a section of your post. your quote is word for word exactly what you wrote, not an interpretation, not an approximation, not a paraphrase, not interjected with my own opinion. the opinions of a chonically overspoken devils advocate with an annoyingly long graphic in their signature do little to nothing to alter the definition of a quote.

seriously, shorten your damn signature


Damn, you don't read like...at all, do you?

My post is saying that it IS in fact a quote. It has a source. Someone wrote it. Someone famous wrote it.

My post also says, along with several OTHER posts in this thread, that this is NOT an interpretation or even representation of the quote as I posted it.

As for my graphic in my signature, I'm sorry that I ignore my own signature enough to not realize that what used to be two side by side shirt comps are now vertically stacked for not reason.

But, sure, take me out of context. That's really good for discourse and debate. In fact, that's the best way to debate.

There's a difference between being a mere devil's advocate and not being blinded by rigid anger or hatred or whatever the hell most of the people on these forums usually get to react the way they do.

There are good reasons to reject this design. There are fantastic reasons to reject this design. And there are poor reasons to reject this design. All of which have been posted in this thread.

But the fact is that there is a quote which reduces down to this visual portrayal. As I've said and will say again because apparently it's convenient to ignore it: I DO NOT THINK THAT THIS SHIRT ADEQUATELY PORTRAYS OR INTERPRETS ANY ITERATION OF THIS QUOTE, PROVERB, ETC, and it sure as hell doesn't do it imaginatively.

I know movie lines aren't valid, but to give an example of how "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" is parallel to the Confucius QUOTE, "Luke, I am your father" and "No, I am your father" portray the same basic meaning and could visually be depicted the same way, but only one's actually a quote.

As for length of posts, this just isn't really responsive. There are lots of people on here that write posts comparable to mine and longer than mine, and I wouldn't necessarily say that they have more content in their posts.

And I admit to having free time on my hands, and I like to engage in discussion and debate.

If nothing else, assuming you've read all of this and won't just cherrypick to make me look bad, I will reward you by DELETING my signature just for you, pookie.

jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
eHalcyon wrote:I said it was weak. The logic goes like this though - the headband makes it about exercise (the fox exercising) as opposed to just a fox jumping over a dog. Having no stem doesn't change the concept even slightly - it's still a dandelion for the sake of having a dandelion on a shirt. Again, the key thing is concept.
And actually, I am a fan of dandelions, for sentimental reasons...
*snip*
I'll echo your apology to DF. I'm not quite sure how we ended up on this far-removed discussion. And in case you missed my edit on my last post, I mean no ill will towards you, jasneko. I find your (usually ) bright and optimistic presence in the forums very refreshing.

re: the headband: the concept of my design was the dandelion tufts blowing off the dandelion and drifting in the air - therefore making it about air. Both of what we are saying is subjective though - based on which person's opinion you ask.

re: your impression of me... well, glad to hear it. I prefer people to stay positive on forums, or at least cordially critical in a constructive way.
But it does get harder to keep optimism at times - like after that rejection, knowing how subjective it is in addition to all the other many factors in the derbies that make it not just about good t-shirt design.

Vote!


marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
HeartlineTwist wrote: see above


i will grant you that a visual representation of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil can be exactly the same as the longer cconfucius quote, after translation. and i will also grant you it is a small hop between the two. but it is a hop. and a quote is a quote. see no evil...etc is not a quote. it is an adage, a proverb, a colloquial expression. not a quote. granted DF could rename his entry and resubmit it and it would qualify as an illustrated quote. but as it is, its not a famous quote illustrated. others in this derby got rejected for this reason, so i am bemoaning the inconsistancy, yet again, of the woot moderators. there are at least 5 reasons i can count of why this should be rejected. but i am going with not a famous quote.

and on the subject of not reading, two of your posts ago, you quoted me which included statement of how paraphrases dont count as quotes, and you went on to say that this should count as a quote because its paraphrased.

emboldend for emphasis

marmls2m wrote:if this is a famous quote, who said it first? where did they say it? who did they say it to? famous messages worded differently does not constitute a famous quote. a quote is word for word what someone had previously stated. so i ask you again, who said it first?


HeartlineTwist wrote: "In Chinese, a similar phrase exists in the Analects of Confucius: "Look not at what is contrary to propriety; listen not to what is contrary to propriety; speak not what is contrary to propriety; make no movement which is contrary to propriety"

That's good enough for me. Especially because it sounds possible that this predates the "statue".

I mean, Confucius is pretty famous, especially when we're talking about REAL Confucius quotes.


as a side note, if you havent seen DFs other entry, take a moment to look at it. its pretty awesome


HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
marmls2m wrote:as a side note, if you havent seen DFs other entry, take a moment to look at it. its pretty awesome


After reading, due to my imprecise language, I have concluded we were having a non-argument.

As is, "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" is NOT a quote.

Confucian Analects passage is a quote, but that's more of an after the fact sort of thing.

My bad. I should have said that there is a quote where a visual depiction of SNE, HNE, SNE would cover it as well, but that's not how it came out.

And thanks for the heads up on the sig. I really haven't been waiting for it to load and had no idea.

And yes, DF's other entry IS awesome.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:yes, you are correct, it is not a quote. and neither is "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". thank you for reinforcing my point, which you missed, and laying an insult on me.


marmls2m wrote:i will grant you that a visual representation of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil can be exactly the same as the longer cconfucius quote, after translation. and i will also grant you it is a small hop between the two. but it is a hop. and a quote is a quote. see no evil...etc is not a quote. it is an adage, a proverb, a colloquial expression.


Hmm... I think the point of that other guy was that "fork in the road" on its own is nothing like a proverb, adage or maxim - it's just a metaphor - whereas "see no evil..." is. And going by the derby description, proverbs, adages and maxims are certainly allowed.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
HeartlineTwist wrote:And thanks for the heads up on the sig. I really haven't been waiting for it to load and had no idea.

And yes, DF's other entry IS awesome.


I'm really curious about what browsers you two are using. Your sig was still coming up horizontal for me, but you said it was coming up vertical for you? The other thing is, why don't your sigs get scrollbar-ed? Anything above around 140px for me ends up with a vertical scrollbar. It's the reason why whenever I used an image for my signature, I always made sure it was in the 100-120px range.

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marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:I'm really curious about what browsers you two are using. Your sig was still coming up horizontal for me, but you said it was coming up vertical for you? The other thing is, why don't your sigs get scrollbar-ed? Anything above around 140px for me ends up with a vertical scrollbar. It's the reason why whenever I used an image for my signature, I always made sure it was in the 100-120px range.


i can view the same thread on the same brower on two different computers and the come out differently


eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marmls2m wrote:i can view the same thread on the same brower on two different computers and the come out differently


Part of the reason for that may be caching. The browser initially looks at the height and it's perfectly fine, so no scroll bar is added. Then the large images load. If the image is already cached, then the browser catches that the height is too large and the scroll bar is introduced.

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chandler0421


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chandler0421

I have to have this shirt I work at a preschool and my classroom is called the Panda class... The kids would love it!!!

chandler0421


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chandler0421
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I have to have this shirt. I work at a preschool and the classroom I work in is called the Panda Room. The kids would love it.

Barbequepork


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Barbequepork

slighty1337


quality posts: 0 Private Messages slighty1337
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


chocolatey!
I hope you're other one wins.

This is adorable, but over used.

LDrees


quality posts: 0 Private Messages LDrees
re: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil


"To similar to the Urban painter design. Nice colors, but I'd like to expand the range of designs a bit more."

I'm bothered because this is definitely NOT expanding the range of designs AT ALL! I've seen shirts get rejected for being too similar to other shirts, that weren't even HALF as similar as this is to other shirts. And if Butterflies is too similar to Urban Painter, then this is too similar to LWW. I've been ignoring derbies for awhile because it seems like the shirts I like never do well or get rejected and apcray like this wins. I'm not an artist but I know what I like, and it's not this (and I'm so guilty of voting for cute stuff, that is not my problem with this at all).

Woot either needs to have rejections that are fair or none at all. It would make it easier to swallow when good designs get rejected and this type of fluff wins week after week.

BTW This thread is hilarious! I'm still laughing! Pandering! LOL!

LDrees


quality posts: 0 Private Messages LDrees
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I would also like to say that I probably would have fallen for this if there was some evil thing that the pandas were ignoring, like your harbinger of death on your other entry (which I heart btw) ; ) That would have made it orignial, like their little hands created some sort of protective force field...

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


And it is done! Had anyone actually tattled on this before today? I figured that someone had so I just neglected to, but since it was still around I sent in the report just a few hours ago with the link to that panda shirt.

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AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
eHalcyon wrote:And it is done! Had anyone actually tattled on this before today? I figured that someone had so I just neglected to, but since it was still around I sent in the report just a few hours ago with the link to that panda shirt.


I'm pretty sure I tattled it while I was still on probation, but generally when I can't just type my eyes go blood red and my mind becomes smoke, so I can't guarantee anything.

Even without a specific shirt, it was rejectable. Nothing about it was original.

bpr2


quality posts: 181 Private Messages bpr2

last post

that was fun while it lasted!

marmls2m


quality posts: 2 Private Messages marmls2m
eHalcyon wrote:And it is done! Had anyone actually tattled on this before today? I figured that someone had so I just neglected to, but since it was still around I sent in the report just a few hours ago with the link to that panda shirt.


i tattled on it a while ago and listed three reasons. but ah! sweet justice!

woot favoritism: 1128
woot fairness: 1

heres to a step in the right direction!


banana168


quality posts: 0 Private Messages banana168
Can you try posting your design on Cameesa.com? It seems like there is a lot of support for this shirt so it might have a good chance of getting printed.

re: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
eHalcyon wrote:And it is done! Had anyone actually tattled on this before today? I figured that someone had so I just neglected to, but since it was still around I sent in the report just a few hours ago with the link to that panda shirt.


I had over the weekend listing most of the reasons talked about in the thread. I mentioned that thousands of other items exist and referenced those which had already been linked into the thread. Since they weren't my links I didn't feel it was really my place to copy them in and say "SEE!" and I also assumed woot would follow it's own thread when tattles were coming in. I guess I was wrong on both counts but good to see they finally got it right. Or maybe I'm too lowly a user to listen to, who knows?

Karrde86


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Karrde86

you guys are hilarious.

krisrobinson


quality posts: 2 Private Messages krisrobinson
Karrde86 wrote:you guys are hilarious.


Quoted for truth... this thread was a ball.

DeadFrog


quality posts: 2 Private Messages DeadFrog

godslinger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages godslinger
DeadFrog wrote:


awwwww

Sapherynth


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Sapherynth
DeadFrog wrote:


Love the sketch! I want a shirt with this on it!!!

Oh and BTW - Darn! I was going to torture my fiance with a shirt of my nickmname for him. Sigh the rejectionator squashes my hopes and dreams ;-P. I will still be in for one if you put the design up elsewhere.

Frostbiter


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Frostbiter
DeadFrog wrote:


This was one craaazy debate. Did it have to end so... violently? o.O

sonotthereason


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sonotthereason
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Very disappointed, my daughter (as well as hundreds of other wooters if the vote was any indication) was waiting on baited breathe for this shirt to print. If (when) you decide to post it somewhere else, please PM me.

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

w00dland


quality posts: 4 Private Messages w00dland
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Here's an example where people need to take a step back and realize its an internet T-Shirt contest. I realize there are rules, but chill out!

ahano0bcake


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ahano0bcake
Noooo. I want it so bad. Adorable ^^
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil

RaefWolfe


quality posts: 1 Private Messages RaefWolfe
DeadFrog wrote:


I lol'd. Cute picture.

Funny how the panda in your sig now looks like it's crying, rather than hiding its eyes...

I would get this printed elsewhere. It'll sell well. Good luck with it. I myself had little problem with the design itself, just the design being on woot

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
DeadFrog wrote:


Well-played, DF

Rooting for your death-bringer!

sefjwm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sefjwm

Lol this was a fun thread.

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
DeadFrog wrote:


I think you should have your Harbinger of Destruction rip the eyes, ears, and tongue off of the panda. That would be an innovative take...

braybin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages braybin
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I'm one of the many people who was going to order this shirt for sure. I won't complain or anything about it getting dropped, but since all the naysayers keep saying there are so many other shirts like this, can someone please link me to another panda/hear no evil shirt? I don't really care about the derby, I just really like pandas.

byrbwr


quality posts: 3 Private Messages byrbwr

WHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoever rejected this ought to get a pat on the back. The 'judges' on woot are some of the worst and also most biased, but they finally did something right!

Now just keep it up.

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
braybin wrote:I'm one of the many people who was going to order this shirt for sure. I won't complain or anything about it getting dropped, but since all the naysayers keep saying there are so many other shirts like this, can someone please link me to another panda/hear no evil shirt? I don't really care about the derby, I just really like pandas.


the website is here

gnomage


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gnomage
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


I voted for this cute design. This is a classic quote with a very familiar image tied to it. So I wasn't too bothered when I saw the "traditional" poses.

I find it quite fascinating how there are several people in this shirt.woot community who love to spread ugliness and spew hatred. They love to find ways to put other people's work down. Constructive criticism is fine but outright attacks are just so ugly.

Deadfrog, I hope you won't be discouraged by this brutal killing of your pandas. I will transfer my vote to your other submission.

LDrees


quality posts: 0 Private Messages LDrees
DeadFrog wrote:


That made my day! If you print that bit of awesomeness somewhere I will buy one, no wait two!

BladderXYU


quality posts: 0 Private Messages BladderXYU


I LIKE TO HEAR MYSELF TALK!!!


WEEEEEE!!!!!


smedgrick


quality posts: 3 Private Messages smedgrick

uncreative enough to win, but so much so that it got slammed with the rejection. There should have been more going on in the shirt, the same thing has been done, and I've always disliked that saying. Very fun thread though.

smedgrick


quality posts: 3 Private Messages smedgrick
BladderXYU wrote:I LIKE TO HEAR MYSELF TALK!!!


WEEEEEE!!!!!


Unless you have one of those machines that types what you say, you'd only be reading what you type here.

ChokingOutTheRadio


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ChokingOutTheRadio
eHalcyon wrote:And it is done! Had anyone actually tattled on this before today? I figured that someone had so I just neglected to, but since it was still around I sent in the report just a few hours ago with the link to that panda shirt.


You seem way too excited at someone else's loss. And I didn't even like the shirt. After seeing your behavior over this ordeal, I will never buy one of your designs.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
ChokingOutTheRadio wrote:You seem way too excited at someone else's loss. And I didn't even like the shirt. After seeing your behavior over this ordeal, I will never buy one of your designs.


Wow. I'm sorry if it appeared that way. I was actually excited that Woot did the right thing in rejecting this design, given that so many similar shirts exist. If you read through the conversation, you'll see that I never attacked DF personally and even defended him as an artist, for entries such as "Rain Dance". I also defended his entry as being on topic (people were arguing that "See no evil..." didn't qualify as a quotation in the context of the derby, and I disagreed) and I argued that, although the style used in this design was the same as in his previous winning entries, the design was still conceptually different. Unfortunately, that concept has been done many, many times, which is why I said it should be rejected and why I was pleased when Woot finally did it.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

Motofly


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Motofly

i like it!

Motofly


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Motofly
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Well, I was going to buy this shirt for my girlfriend... But thanks to all the people who took this shirt way to personally I guess I will not buy anything from Kazaam (1996).woot for this derby. I would definitely buy it if you were to put it up on a different site.

Motofly


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Motofly
Motofly wrote:Well, I was going to buy this shirt for my girlfriend... But thanks to all the people who took this shirt way to personally I guess I will not buy anything from Kazaam (1996).woot for this derby. I would definitely buy it if you were to put it up on a different site.


why did they replace the word shirt with kazaam?

fablefire


quality posts: 22 Private Messages fablefire
Motofly wrote:why did they replace the word shirt with kazaam?


That would be the word "shirt" without the "r".

danib62


quality posts: 11 Private Messages danib62
DeadFrog wrote:


Now this is a shirt I want to see printed!

Bulnes


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Bulnes
Re: See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil


Now I will have to watch out for deadfrog... see if he makes more of the same shirts.

I have to admit that it bugs me that DF defended this design so much.

not a good design... was it worth turning off buyers?

Woots: twelve
Shirts: fifty five...wow.. I gotta get another hobby

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