Re: Murder Mystery

This is a pretty neat idea but it all washes into a dull mess on the asphalt.

mrwednesday wrote:This is a pretty neat idea but it all washes into a dull mess on the asphalt.

That, and is it not true that showing death on a shirt is frowned upon? Everyone has used chalk outlines and such. But this one actually has the girl blowing the guy's head into oblivion.

Re: Murder Mystery

overdone halftones are so..... overdone.

MotherFogger wrote:That, and is it not true that showing death on a shirt is frowned upon? Everyone has used chalk outlines and such. But this one actually has the girl blowing the guy's head into oblivion.

I thought it was two people dancing. That murderous hot tamale!

MotherFogger wrote:That, and is it not true that showing death on a shirt is frowned upon? Everyone has used chalk outlines and such. But this one actually has the girl blowing the guy's head into oblivion.

I think it's stylized enough that it should be ok, but it's a tough call.

I'm not overly fond of all the halftones in this one. It's nice though.

Re: Murder Mystery

Not much of a mystery in the design nor who the artist is.

Re: Murder Mystery

This is an awesome, awesome design.

kylemittskus wrote:Whose is this?

considering my comments and the hackneyed execution, there's really only one person it could be, isn't there?

AdderXYU wrote:considering my comments and the hackneyed execution, there's really only one person it could be, isn't there?

nm lol

I like it. Would have been better on black but on asphalt I am less likely to have people at work notice it is about someone getting their gray matter splattered anyway.

eHalcyon wrote:I think it's stylized enough that it should be ok, but it's a tough call.

I'm not overly fond of all the halftones in this one. It's nice though.

I'm very surprised that you like a shirt that shows a murder in progress EHalc. Not to mention the out of control halftones.

My opinion-should be rejected. Murder should not be allowed on a shirt. There is enough violence in our society. We don't need to walk around wearing it. Especially so poorly done.

Re: Murder Mystery

is this a dream sequence?

slomer wrote:I like it. Would have been better on black but on asphalt I am less likely to have people at work notice it is about someone getting their gray matter splattered anyway.

it doesn't matter what color it would be put on... you can obviously see the brain splatter coming out of the back of the head.

Re: Murder Mystery

I love how AdderXYU is really taking this derby to heart and respecting that Woot is not putting names to the entries.

snarkygal wrote:My opinion-should be rejected. Murder should not be allowed on a shirt. There is enough violence in our society. We don't need to walk around wearing it. Especially so poorly done.

Agreed, one hundred percent. I actually can't believe anyone is voting for this... Even on woot.

elwayman02 wrote:I love how AdderXYU is really taking this derby to heart and respecting that Woot is not putting names to the entries.

Please... you looked at this yourself, before reading the posts, and you're telling me YOU didn't know who made this?

Re: Murder Mystery

nice... definitely not enough shirts out there with people getting their brains blow out on it!

Re: Murder Mystery

Dude Keep on doing what you doin! I guess some people can't handle some silhouette murder, but forget them It's an AMAZING SHIRT only one that's gotten my vote so far, but I do admit, I wish it was on a different colored shirt, ONLY BECAUSE, I have soo many asphalt shirts already T_T hoho [OVERALL: GMV & CAN'T WAIT TO BUY!!]

Re: Murder Mystery

Very very beautiful. There needs to be more violence on t-shirts. How can society purge their violent thoughts without physical imagery?

But on a more serious note, your art here is very well executed. I can actually FEEL the action as if the design itself is animated.

Beautiful.

Re: Murder Mystery

I would definitely get this one.

AdderXYU wrote:considering my comments and the hackneyed execution, there's really only one person it could be, isn't there?

Methinks the placement should have been lower left of the shirt, no?

But beyond all that, it is a little disappointing how poorly this was put together. If you can get past having an exploding skull on your shirt (doesn't really bother me) and if you like the halftone effect (these always look much worse printed than in the comps so it does worry me a bit), there are still significant problems with the shirt.

The design is just kind of slapped there in the center and there's no real reason for the swirls to go so high because they prevent more creative placement options. Also the colors chosen aren't bad but they look horrible on asphalt. It gives the entire thing a very disjointed look because none of the elements really mesh.

Re: Murder Mystery

I love this shirt. I didn't want to vote for it, because I wanted to vote for a cute one involving furry animals, but then I found myself wondering where to buy it. And realized that in order to own it, I'd have to vote for it. (Saturday Morning Brain Short Circuit)

And then I read the comments. And I felt I had to post that I disagree strongly with the idea that there should be a prohibition on violent artwork in shirt.woot. Good art is good art. Which is subjective to say the least, will be determined by popular opinion (voting) to state the obvious, and- wait, where did this soap box come from?

snarkygal wrote:My opinion-should be rejected. Murder should not be allowed on a shirt. There is enough violence in our society. We don't need to walk around wearing it. Especially so poorly done.

L O L murder shouldn't be allowed on a shirt - 90% of this weeks entries would be rejected. Your opinion should be rejected. At best censorship is a necessary evil, and while gory and exaggerated this is a more honest depiction of murder then the classic Hollywood tiny gunshot wound complete with trickle of blood. It's also an interesting idea.

Now personally I don't like it, wouldn't wear it, didn't vote for it, but it does have artistic merit.

snarkygal wrote:I'm very surprised that you like a shirt that shows a murder in progress EHalc. Not to mention the out of control halftones.

My opinion-should be rejected. Murder should not be allowed on a shirt. There is enough violence in our society. We don't need to walk around wearing it. Especially so poorly done.

I like the fantasy feel and the book aspect. Fantasy is my favourite genre, so I can't help it. Does that make it a good shirt? Not necessarily. I'm turned off by all the halftones as well, and the colour combination doesn't do it for me.

Murder fits the bill for this derby. I don't know if the depiction here will cross the lines for Woot; that's all I'm saying. Otherwise I see nothing wrong with it (the design, not murder) in that particular aspect - it reminds me of several classic Threadless designs, actually.

I can see it being rejected for not being PG-13, and "off-topic" might even be arguable. But I can just as easily see it staying.

eHalcyon wrote:I like the fantasy feel and the book aspect. Fantasy is my favourite genre, so I can't help it. Does that make it a good shirt? Not necessarily. I'm turned off by all the halftones as well, and the colour combination doesn't do it for me.

Murder fits the bill for this derby. I don't know if the depiction here will cross the lines for Woot; that's all I'm saying. Otherwise I see nothing wrong with it (the design, not murder) in that particular aspect - it reminds me of several classic Threadless designs, actually.

I can see it being rejected for not being PG-13, and "off-topic" might even be arguable. But I can just as easily see it staying.

I'd call it not PG-13. There's brains flying out of the guy's skull. not cool, not cool at all.

Re: Murder Mystery

I really like this shirt, and to all those who think it shouldnt be on here because it shows murder, why dont you grow up a bit, A shirt depicting such isnt the cause of violence in our society, people dont walk in to art museums and as soon as they see murder or violence in a famous painting decide that the painting shouldnt be allowed there, and they also dont decide to go commit violent acts or murder, and truth be told im pretty sure people find the paintings of famous painters a little more influential then a shirt on woot.com. Most of you are quiet hypocritical anyways, you cant tell me you dont play violent games or dont watch violent movies.

Re: Murder Mystery

Straight to the fog. Surprise, surprise. No mystery here.

And if woot classifies the slight hint of boobies as non-PG13, then I would say blowing someone's brains out should be the same. Boobies > flying brains.

ItsReigning wrote:I really like this shirt, and to all those who think it shouldnt be on here because it shows murder, why dont you grow up a bit, A shirt depicting such isnt the cause of violence in our society, people dont walk in to art museums and as soon as they see murder or violence in a famous painting decide that the painting shouldnt be allowed there, and they also dont decide to go commit violent acts or murder, and truth be told im pretty sure people find the paintings of famous painters a little more influential then a shirt on woot.com. Most of you are quiet hypocritical anyways, you cant tell me you dont play violent games or dont watch violent movies.

Way I see it, most Americans are fine with murder as long as it's portrayed in an "inoffesive" CSI Miami fashion (IE car blowing up in the distance, karate chop, or bloodless gunshot wound). But as soon as you depict the horror of actual murder or (god forbid) a naked tit they lose their minds.

ItsReigning wrote:I really like this shirt, and to all those who think it shouldnt be on here because it shows murder, why dont you grow up a bit, A shirt depicting such isnt the cause of violence in our society, people dont walk in to art museums and as soon as they see murder or violence in a famous painting decide that the painting shouldnt be allowed there, and they also dont decide to go commit violent acts or murder, and truth be told im pretty sure people find the paintings of famous painters a little more influential then a shirt on woot.com. Most of you are quiet hypocritical anyways, you cant tell me you dont play violent games or dont watch violent movies.

I can say exactly that. I have a four year old, a 10 yr old, and a 13 yr old child and I spend very little time not in the presence of small children of a variety of ages. The fact is, woot has consistently described itself as a 'PG-13' site, while acting as if it is a 'G' site. Prior to this design, they have rejected anything with a hint of nudity, sexual innuendo, or graphic violence. Assuming the pundits are right, and the designer is who they posit it to be, then this shirt does have a chance of not being rejected. Had I posted it, I don't think so. Had virtually anyone submitted it, it would be a no-go from the start, and I fully expect it to be rejected. It is as graphic as is possible, after all. There is no ambiguity of the depiction of bits of skull and brain exploding out of the back of the guy's head, despite it being in silhouette. Horrifying.

Josephus wrote:I can say exactly that. I have a four year old, a 10 yr old, and a 13 yr old child and I spend very little time not in the presence of small children of a variety of ages. The fact is, woot has consistently described itself as a 'PG-13' site, while acting as if it is a 'G' site. Prior to this design, they have rejected anything with a hint of nudity, sexual innuendo, or graphic violence. Assuming the pundits are right, and the designer is who they posit it to be, then this shirt does have a chance of not being rejected. Had I posted it, I don't think so. Had virtually anyone submitted it, it would be a no-go from the start, and I fully expect it to be rejected. It is as graphic as is possible, after all. There is no ambiguity of the depiction of bits of skull and brain exploding out of the back of the guy's head, despite it being in silhouette. Horrifying.

Although I do not care for the design itself, I think it has a lot of merit and fits within the context of the derby. I'm not sure what some consider the definition of PG-13 but I feel that this falls well within mine. I would hate to see this shirt get rejected simply due to some puritan-esque censorship.

elwayman02 wrote:I love how AdderXYU is really taking this derby to heart and respecting that Woot is not putting names to the entries.

I love how the designer is really taking the derby to heart and got a patented hotness surge on a week where no one could call him on it.

JadenKale wrote:Please... you looked at this yourself, before reading the posts, and you're telling me YOU didn't know who made this?

the fact that he's even crawled out of the woodwork to comment means he knows who made it

Re: Murder Mystery

Where is the mystery? A girl is blowing a guy's brains out. No mystery there. IMO, not that it matters, this shirt is off topic. It's also horrible.

trekmiss wrote:Where is the mystery? A girl is blowing a guy's brains out. No mystery there. IMO, not that it matters, this shirt is off topic. It's also horrible.

It's a murder mystery novel. How is that off topic?

metal77 wrote:Although I do not care for the design itself, I think it has a lot of merit and fits within the context of the derby. I'm not sure what some consider the definition of PG-13 but I feel that this falls well within mine. I would hate to see this shirt get rejected simply due to some puritan-esque censorship.

When's the last time you watched a PG-13 movie that actually showed a person being shot on screen, let alone having the victim's brain matter spewed everywhere? It's past the PG-13 rating, pure and simple.

ItsReigning, I don't know where you've been these few years, but saying something as ludicrous as "people dont walk in to art museums and as soon as they see murder or violence in a famous painting decide that the painting shouldnt be allowed there" seems really uneducated. Really? People have been complaining that art influences life and that anything of a negative connotation, such as blatant displays of aggression, instigate such actions. There is a 'chicken or egg' belief behind that controversy, but since woot doesn't want to be in a weekly battle regarding such things, a PG-13 rule was put in place.

Last week, we almost had an entry with a white supremest symbol in it, since someone didn't do enough research into what they wanted to use to depict a 'black sun'. If it hadn't been brought up before it was entered, it would have been submitted with that still there. Now, regardless of whether he would have defended it (because even without the symbol, it placed fairly high last week), should he be allowed to submit something with obvious hateful overtones? Besides, your comment as to famous art does not apply to woot designs. Because, as those of us that regularly push for more creative and artistic designs have been told, these are just shirts. And this person is not a famous artist. So the argument is moot. The rules state nothing over PG-13. It's violent past the PG-13. Therefore, it should be rejected.

snarkygal wrote:I'm very surprised that you like a shirt that shows a murder in progress EHalc. Not to mention the out of control halftones.

My opinion-should be rejected. Murder should not be allowed on a shirt. There is enough violence in our society. We don't need to walk around wearing it. Especially so poorly done.

Well, I personally went ahead and killed some people because of the image on this webpage. I guess you're right - a shirt that shows some stylized murder will cause mass chaos in society as a whole.

ryanman7 wrote:Well, I personally went ahead and killed some people because of the image on this webpage...

*gasp* Murderer!!!!!

trekmiss wrote:Where is the mystery? A girl is blowing a guy's brains out. No mystery there. IMO, not that it matters, this shirt is off topic. It's also horrible.

lol? last time i checked most mysteries start off with a murder.

ryanman7 wrote:Well, I personally went ahead and killed some people because of the image on this webpage. I guess you're right - a shirt that shows some stylized murder will cause mass chaos in society as a whole.

the idea that art alone can influence violence is stupid.

But woot is PG-13, and so your arguments are even more foolish. It's a straw argument, yes, but it's made to illustrate a bigger point: this sort of thing doesn't fit the sort of thing woot goes for, and woot regularly rejects things like this for being too graphic.

Though given the artwork, I'd argue it's not "graphic" enough. BADABING!

JadenKale wrote:When's the last time you watched a PG-13 movie that actually showed a person being shot on screen, let alone having the victim's brain matter spewed everywhere? It's past the PG-13 rating, pure and simple.

ItsReigning, I don't know where you've been these few years, but saying something as ludicrous as "people dont walk in to art museums and as soon as they see murder or violence in a famous painting decide that the painting shouldnt be allowed there" seems really uneducated. Really? People have been complaining that art influences life and that anything of a negative connotation, such as blatant displays of aggression, instigate such actions. There is a 'chicken or egg' belief behind that controversy, but since woot doesn't want to be in a weekly battle regarding such things, a PG-13 rule was put in place.

Last week, we almost had an entry with a white supremest symbol in it, since someone didn't do enough research into what they wanted to use to depict a 'black sun'. If it hadn't been brought up before it was entered, it would have been submitted with that still there. Now, regardless of whether he would have defended it (because even without the symbol, it placed fairly high last week), should he be allowed to submit something with obvious hateful overtones? Besides, your comment as to famous art does not apply to woot designs. Because, as those of us that regularly push for more creative and artistic designs have been told, these are just shirts. And this person is not a famous artist. So the argument is moot. The rules state nothing over PG-13. It's violent past the PG-13. Therefore, it should be rejected.

Ok then, if you want a specific defense for this shirts, lets see a couple pg-13 movies that i have seen that have been released recently would be the hulk, the dark knight, iron man. All are pg-13 and far more violent then this shirt, the dark knight especially. Even cartoons on cartoon network are mor violent then this, i remmeberr when i was around the age of 13 i was watching a cartoon called dragon ball z, it was on during the day right after school and was far more violent then this shirt. Oh and one last thing, this shirt is not done in full color its not gory with blood and brains all over the place. I think saying its horrific and all that other stuff is a little over board.

ItsReigning wrote:lol? last time i checked most mysteries start off with a murder.

Actually most mysteries start with a body. This shirt isn't about the mystery. It's about the murder because there's really no mystery......the girl shot him in the face.

ItsReigning wrote:lol? last time i checked most mysteries start off with a murder.

Yeah, but the mystery is trying to figure out "who done it?" Here, there is no mystery, the girl did it. Case closed.

trekmiss wrote:Yeah, but the mystery is trying to figure out "who done it?" Here, there is no mystery, the girl did it. Case closed.

The mystery actually is "who said those colors in the halftoney smudge of smoke went well together?"

JadenKale wrote:When's the last time you watched a PG-13 movie that actually showed a person being shot on screen, let alone having the victim's brain matter spewed everywhere? It's past the PG-13 rating, pure and simple.

Scarface
Pearl Harbor
LOTR
Quantum of Solace
etc etc

camoor wrote:Scarface
Pearl Harbor
LOTR
Quantum of Solace
etc etc

Scarface is rated R. No one gets shot in LotR. No one watched Pearl Harbor and no one gets shot in the face in QoS.

This is beyond the point that when woot says PG-13 they mean G.

camoor wrote:Scarface
Pearl Harbor
LOTR
Quantum of Solace
etc etc

ROFL Scarface?? You MUST be joking!! Scarface had an R rating alone just on the trailer.

mrwednesday wrote:Scarface is rated R. No one gets shot in LotR. No one watched Pearl Harbor and no one gets shot in the face in QoS.

This is beyond the point that when woot says PG-13 they mean G.

LOL okay, I admit, I like your answer more.

a) Off-topic. There's about as much mystery here as there was in Crank 2. If, say, there was a Sherlock-Holmes-with a-pipe-and-magnifying-glass silhouette, that would be fine. But this book could be a western for all we know.

b) Not PG-13. Granted, violence going as far as gunshots is fine in a PG-13 movie. But graphic depictions to the point of showing the viscera ejected from the guy's head? Nu-uh. Someone else used the CSI example, and it's a good one.

c) The worst use of halftones I've ever had the displeasure of bearing witness to. Everything above the silhouettes is pure wankery on the part of the artist, and is going to look absolutely hideous on a shirt.

Rejection please? Pretty please? With sugar and a cherry on top?

mrwednesday wrote:Actually most mysteries start with a body. This shirt isn't about the mystery. It's about the murder because there's really no mystery......the girl shot him in the face.

See, this is showing the start of the murder mystery...the two intertwining lines are the book/story that results from the act. Considering other entries, it is ridiculous to argue that this is not on topic.

RukasuFox wrote:See, this is showing the start of the murder mystery...the two intertwining lines are the book/story that results from the act. Considering other entries, it is ridiculous to argue that this is not on topic.

I would be OK if this entire derby was rejected, to be honest. But thank you, RUKASUFOX, for your clearly unbiased report.

Re: Murder Mystery

So, we're ok with violent murder on shirts now?

And... mystery. Remember? It's that thing called a theme that the shirts are supposed to follow...

Unlike Adder, I think that there is at least one shirt that belongs perfectly. See how it stuck to the theme?

RukasuFox wrote:See, this is showing the start of the murder mystery...the two intertwining lines are the book/story that results from the act. Considering other entries, it is ridiculous to argue that this is not on topic.

But this doesn't show any of that. It doesn't hint at any of that. All it shows is that the designer, bored to tears, decided that it was time to try yet another way to slip one in that isn't quite on topic, and flouts the guidelines just a little bit more than the previous times said designer has done so. It's way over the top in regard to being non-PG-13, and it'd be off topic if woot actually followed their guidelines on topicality.

but they don't. As far as the theme goes, there's enough here that woot'll call it on-topic. The only question is whether they'll stick to their Woot.com!-wide rules about PG-13, and reject it. This is not a derby issue, really, but a Woot.com! issue. Are they going to follow what has, up to now, appeared to be a company-wide policy not to allow anything (except advertisements) more risque or graphically violent than what they call PG-13? or are they going to allow their shirt site to print a shirt that depicts in clear detail, bits of brains and skull spattered out of the skull of some victim of a gunshot, in which we see the act as it happens? It seems like an open and shut rejection to me, but I guess we'll see on Monday.

mrwednesday wrote:Actually most mysteries start with a body. This shirt isn't about the mystery. It's about the murder because there's really no mystery......the girl shot him in the face.

Mr. Holmes? Is that you?

Josephus wrote:But this doesn't show any of that. It doesn't hint at any of that. All it shows is that the designer, bored to tears, decided that it was time to try yet another way to slip one in that isn't quite on topic, and flouts the guidelines just a little bit more than the previous times said designer has done so. It's way over the top in regard to being non-PG-13, and it'd be off topic if woot actually followed their guidelines on topicality.

but they don't. As far as the theme goes, there's enough here that woot'll call it on-topic. The only question is whether they'll stick to their Woot.com!-wide rules about PG-13, and reject it. This is not a derby issue, really, but a Woot.com! issue. Are they going to follow what has, up to now, appeared to be a company-wide policy not to allow anything (except advertisements) more risque or graphically violent than what they call PG-13? or are they going to allow their shirt site to print a shirt that depicts in clear detail, bits of brains and skull spattered out of the skull of some victim of a gunshot, in which we see the act as it happens? It seems like an open and shut rejection to me, but I guess we'll see on Monday.

it's an abstract representation; YMMV. And if w00t rejects it for violent content then that's one thing, but I don't think it takes much to see that calling for its rejection based on theme is an unreasonable demand by bitter people with some mystifying vendettas.

AdderXYU wrote:I would be OK if this entire derby was rejected, to be honest. But thank you, RUKASUFOX, for your clearly unbiased report.

This derby is definitely disappointing. And of course my report is biased because its my opinion. What are you implying?

Re: Murder Mystery

I like the shirt.

WHO IS WOMAN?

That's the mystery if you're wondering.

And for those complaining this shirt should be banned because it's Rated-R or whatever, this is America. Sex is bad and violence is good, m'kay?

Re: Murder Mystery

I know that people have discussed this before on Woot, but, I suppose the spirit of the derby and what not, I just had to comment.

Dear Adder,

I am not quite sure what kind of stick is up your behind, but you are quite rude, which is completely uncalled for. It is one thing to give constructive criticism on someone's work, but an entirely different thing to be plain rude. And you are just plain rude. I am not sure why either You have ever had an entry so it isn't like anyone has ever commented poorly to you. I don't see why you must do what you do. Maybe you get a kick out of it? Maybe you think it is funny? Maybe you just like to hear yourself talk? I don't know, but I do know, that you are clearly not helpful. Maybe you should start your own shirt derby site, in which you can get all the "quality" entries that you want. You would be the master of your own universe and get to say all the mean things you wish and leave the rest of us in peace.

Re: Murder Mystery

I know that people have discussed this before on Woot, but, I suppose the spirit of the derby and what not, I just had to comment.

Dear Adder,

I am not quite sure what kind of stick is up your behind, but you are quite rude, which is completely uncalled for. It is one thing to give constructive criticism on someone's work, but an entirely different thing to be plain rude. And you are just plain rude. I am not sure why either. You have never had an entry so it isn't like anyone has ever commented poorly to you. I don't see why you must do what you do. Maybe you get a kick out of it? Maybe you think it is funny? Maybe you just like to hear yourself talk? I don't know, but I do know, that you are clearly not helpful. Maybe you should start your own shirt derby site, in which you can get all the "quality" entries that you want. You would be the master of your own universe and get to say all the mean things you wish and leave the rest of us in peace.

knepute wrote:I know that people have discussed this before on Woot, but, I suppose the spirit of the derby and what not, I just had to comment.

Dear Adder,

I am not quite sure what kind of stick is up your behind, but you are quite rude, which is completely uncalled for. It is one thing to give constructive criticism on someone's work, but an entirely different thing to be plain rude. And you are just plain rude. I am not sure why either You have ever had an entry so it isn't like anyone has ever commented poorly to you. I don't see why you must do what you do. Maybe you get a kick out of it? Maybe you think it is funny? Maybe you just like to hear yourself talk? I don't know, but I do know, that you are clearly not helpful. Maybe you should start your own shirt derby site, in which you can get all the "quality" entries that you want. You would be the master of your own universe and get to say all the mean things you wish and leave the rest of us in peace.

There is nothing constructive to note about this piece. It is ugly.

Please look at the colors, "expertly" halftoned into a gaudy multicolored swirl that will look more like a smudge upon printing. The figures, deformed and over-smoothed enough that the "creator" is no mystery. The lack of mystery outside of the title (the mystery is laid out, wouldn't you say?), and the inclusion of elements that normally would not make it past the woot censors. The waaay too slim center placement that will look horrible on an actual human. The sheer clutter of the design. What am I supposed to say to improve it, besides "scrap it"? Yet with all these flaws, it is so strong in the hotness. Why? I could tell you, but that would ruin the mystery. It is ALL about who created it, and this is proof. Without a name on the entry, and with a "different" style than normal, the exact same patterns as always have arisen. That, to me, is proof positive that the user is getting juiced, and that should not be supported.

RukasuFox wrote:it's an abstract representation; YMMV. And if w00t rejects it for violent content then that's one thing, but I don't think it takes much to see that calling for its rejection based on theme is an unreasonable demand by bitter people with some mystifying vendettas.

I'm not particularly calling it off topic now- woot has made it clear that they have topics just as guidelines, not as rejectable reasons. To say it's abstract is a bit laughable, though- I'd call it graphic as hell. and that's where it really ought to be rejected, not about topicality.

Re: Murder Mystery

Is the top part of the design his departing spirit?

Not a huge fan of the design. Voting for it in response to the surprising amount of censorship fans around here.

Re: Murder Mystery

Eeew.

Re: Murder Mystery

Like the idea, don't like the execution (no pun intended). It looks hastily designed and, for lack of a better word, blotchy. I'd like to see a resubmit that's cleaned up and wearable.

So far, there is only one shirt in this derby that I'd wear, and this ain't it. :-\

Coyne wrote:Not a huge fan of the design. Voting for it in response to the surprising amount of censorship fans around here.

Come now, what a poor reason to vote for it! I agree, I'm not a fan of censorship either. I have no real issue with the shirt showing a murder. I wouldn't buy it or wear it, but the same can be said for the vast majority of other shirts as well! But to vote for something just for that reason takes away a possible win for shirts that are actually on topic- which this is not. As I've seen someone say, there is no mystery. Not all murders are mysteries, some are quite clear cut, this is one of them.

kateybee wrote:Come now, what a poor reason to vote for it! I agree, I'm not a fan of censorship either. I have no real issue with the shirt showing a murder. I wouldn't buy it or wear it, but the same can be said for the vast majority of other shirts as well! But to vote for something just for that reason takes away a possible win for shirts that are actually on topic- which this is not. As I've seen someone say, there is no mystery. Not all murders are mysteries, some are quite clear cut, this is one of them.

Okay, please explain exactly the who/what/where and why of this murder. Thank you.

Re: Murder Mystery

Maybe the bullet just caught the side of his face...? Just a thought... maybe that's the mystery.

trekmiss wrote:Yeah, but the mystery is trying to figure out "who done it?" Here, there is no mystery, the girl did it. Case closed.

But who's the girl? I've no doubt that at least some murder mysteries describe/show the murder taking place, but the killer's face is shadowed or something and manages to slip away. Then the mystery begins. I think Maltese Falcon may have done so (I can't quite remember at the moment).

Even though depicting the murder still fits "Mystery" (in my opinion), it doesn't SPECIFY Mystery. It could also fit any number of other genres. Since this design doesn't take it any further, I agree that there is reason to reject it for being off-topic.

eHalcyon wrote:But who's the girl? I've no doubt that at least some murder mysteries describe/show the murder taking place, but the killer's face is shadowed or something and manages to slip away. Then the mystery begins. I think Maltese Falcon may have done so (I can't quite remember at the moment).

Even though depicting the murder still fits "Mystery" (in my opinion), it doesn't SPECIFY Mystery. It could also fit any number of other genres. Since this design doesn't take it any further, I agree that there is reason to reject it for being off-topic.

It deserves to be rejected because it is poorly done and embrangles. All your reasons are superfluous my friend.

RukasuFox wrote:Okay, please explain exactly the who/what/where and why of this murder. Thank you.

The girl over there killed the guy over there. I don't know who they are because they are not real, but it's obvious who did what. The motive isn't necessary, since you can convict the girl of murder simply because you saw her do it.

eHalcyon wrote:But who's the girl? I've no doubt that at least some murder mysteries describe/show the murder taking place, but the killer's face is shadowed or something and manages to slip away. Then the mystery begins. I think Maltese Falcon may have done so (I can't quite remember at the moment).

Even though depicting the murder still fits "Mystery" (in my opinion), it doesn't SPECIFY Mystery. It could also fit any number of other genres. Since this design doesn't take it any further, I agree that there is reason to reject it for being off-topic.

maybe the submitter can add an iPod. That's enough to make it on topic

AdderXYU wrote:Without a name on the entry, and with a "different" style than normal, the exact same patterns as always have arisen. That, to me, is proof positive that the user is getting juiced, and that should not be supported.

I don't see this as proof of anything. No name could just as easily indicate that it's the style that is getting votes and not the "user getting juiced". Unless you're serious that this is a different style than his normal, in which case it doesn't make sense that so many would be able to so easily determine who the designer was just from the image. Personally, I wasn't completely sure.

eHalcyon wrote:I don't see this as proof of anything. No name could just as easily indicate that it's the style that is getting votes and not the "user getting juiced". Unless you're serious that this is a different style than his normal, in which case it doesn't make sense that so many would be able to so easily determine who the designer was just from the image. Personally, I wasn't completely sure.

I am being completely serious. Watch when Thursday comes around.

AdderXYU wrote:I am being completely serious. Watch when Thursday comes around.

Not to break the fun fest up, but when the hell did woot give you 8 quality posts?! Nice work brother!

I still think this shirt is absolutely terrible.

AdderXYU wrote:It is ALL about who created it, and this is proof. Without a name on the entry, and with a "different" style than normal, the exact same patterns as always have arisen. That, to me, is proof positive that the user is getting juiced...

This is the sad truth.

JadenKale wrote:Please... you looked at this yourself, before reading the posts, and you're telling me YOU didn't know who made this?

Yes, that is what I'm telling you. Before Adder commented, I had no idea who drew this shirt.

Anyways, this shirt is disturbing, to say the least. I agree, doesn't fit into PG-13 standards

AdderXYU wrote:I am being completely serious. Watch when Thursday comes around.

So it IS a different style, but still obviously an entry by [that guy] just by looking at it, without even a single shred of doubt? Seriously?

AdderXYU wrote:It is ALL about who created it, and this is proof. Without a name on the entry, and with a "different" style than normal, the exact same patterns as always have arisen. That, to me, is proof positive that the user is getting juiced, and that should not be supported.

By Tom Waits' chiseled jawline, THIS, THIS, ****ING THIS.

Re: Murder Mystery

Definitely not PG-13. The halftone coming off her bewb could be a nipple.
Also, anyone else think the halftones look kind of stripy like plaid?

Re: Murder Mystery

This is trying to stylize and beautify something that is detestable, graphic, and offensive. Sure, murder mystery books are captivating, but to put a man's brains being blown out on a shirt is bad taste. I would be ashamed to wear this in front of children or anyone with class.

Not getting my vote.

Re: Murder Mystery

hey, if this gets rejected for not being pg-13 (as opposed to just being retardedly over half-toned) will you PLEASE promise to enter it in the gangster-thug-ms13-ab-i wish i was a badass derby? pretty please?

eHalcyon wrote:So it IS a different style, but still obviously an entry by [that guy] just by looking at it, without even a single shred of doubt? Seriously?

I gotta say I had no idea it was a ***** until I looked it up. I think it is obvious by now that Adder is a Terminator sent from the future to kill ***** only he was trapped in a computer and can now only follow him around the interwebs spewing meaningless fulminations in a failed attempt to suck out all the happiness *****s many popular T-shirt designs bring to both children and adults alike. Adder is a Broken Record Dementor, more commonly known as a troll and other than having a handy dandy Penguin patronus on hand the next best strategy is to ignore him completely.

RukasuFox wrote:I gotta say I had no idea it was a ***** until I looked it up. I think it is obvious by now that Adder is a Terminator sent from the future to kill ***** only he was trapped in a computer and can now only follow him around the interwebs spewing meaningless fulminations in a failed attempt to suck out all the happiness his many popular T-shirt designs bring to both children and adults alike. He is a Broken Record Dementor, more commonly known as a troll and other than having a handy dandy Penguin patronus on hand the next best strategy is to ignore him completely.

I'd say it's pretty obvious if you recall his "Open Sea" design. Same body and face shadows, plus, as I said, overfine halftoning that the twins are so well known for, since they are above the rules and love pushing them for their generic apcray. And really, I don't trust anyone with an otaku name and a join date after "*****" as being an actual legit account with no ties to him.

RukasuFox wrote:I gotta say I had no idea it was a ***** until I looked it up. I think it is obvious by now that Adder is a Terminator sent from the future to kill ***** only he was trapped in a computer and can now only follow him around the interwebs spewing meaningless fulminations in a failed attempt to suck out all the happiness *****s many popular T-shirt designs bring to both children and adults alike. Adder is a Broken Record Dementor, more commonly known as a troll and other than having a handy dandy Penguin patronus on hand the next best strategy is to ignore him completely.

Did you just use a Harry Potter reference? Two of them?!

AdderXYU wrote:I'd say it's pretty obvious if you recall his "Open Sea" design. Same body and face shadows, plus, as I said, overfine halftoning that the twins are so well known for, since they are above the rules and love pushing them for their generic apcray. And really, I don't trust anyone with an otaku name and a join date after "*****" as being an actual legit account with no ties to him.

I don't have any ties to him, though you can believe what you want. You are free to dislike his style, but most of his designs are sleek and technically proficient. Perhaps it is the power of the least common denominator and he is pandering to the masses; or perhaps that's just the way he wants to draw. Either way a lot of people like it, despite your criticism.

kylemittskus wrote:Did you just use a Harry Potter reference? Two of them?!

And the fact that you recognize said references means...?

mrwednesday wrote:Scarface is rated R. No one gets shot in LotR. No one watched Pearl Harbor and no one gets shot in the face in QoS.

This is beyond the point that when woot says PG-13 they mean G.

Noone gets shot in LOTR?? Were you talking about the hobbit cartoon? I lost count of how many orcs, elves, and humans got shot in the head, arm, neck, etc with arrows. At one point the elf starts sticking orcs in the face with arrows. Not to mention the decapitations, cannibalism, burning alive, cold-blooded stabbing of Frodo in the spleen, hell within the first five minutes a main character gets his fingers severed from his hand.

QoS - did you see that one either? In the first 10 min, after a brutal bloody scene Bond pops up from a rope and shoots a fleeing bad guy in the face. Most reviews called the QoS Bond a homocidal maniac in a tux.

You're right that noone saw Pearl Harbor, I'll give you that one ;)

RukasuFox wrote:I gotta say I had no idea it was a ***** until I looked it up. I think it is obvious by now that Adder is a Terminator sent from the future to kill ***** only he was trapped in a computer and can now only follow him around the interwebs spewing meaningless fulminations in a failed attempt to suck out all the happiness *****s many popular T-shirt designs bring to both children and adults alike. Adder is a Broken Record Dementor, more commonly known as a troll and other than having a handy dandy Penguin patronus on hand the next best strategy is to ignore him completely.

if you seriously think adder is a troll, then you are incredibly closeminded. closeminded because 1) you refuse to believe he could be right about the things he says and refuse to consider his point of view and 2) if you saw his normal activity sans unnamed artist you would know that adder is simply passionate about t shirts. he loves things, he hates things, he offers constructive criticism, and he calls people about on the enormous amount of BS they spew. but you only look at his comments on the pages of unnamed artist and his girlfriend, so you only see one side. moreover, you make arbitrary and defaming characterizations from a biased point of view. adder, on the other hand, makes characterizations with compelling evidence and logic and reason, albiet biased by his being predisposed to awful designs. your ranting sounds awful similar to rabid fangirls on deviantArt to me, and personally, i call into question your name and join date. if you arent linked somehow, then you must just have an otaku fixation.

Re: Murder Mystery

Personally the murder scene is stellar for a "mystery" shirt in my opinion and I think that the halftones really make it look like a mysterious murder scenario from a book.
So whether people like it or not you GMV fo sho.

marmls2m wrote:if you seriously think adder is a troll, then you are incredibly closeminded. closeminded because 1) you refuse to believe he could be right about the things he says and refuse to consider his point of view and 2) if you saw his normal activity sans unnamed artist you would know that adder is simply passionate about t shirts. he loves things, he hates things, he offers constructive criticism, and he calls people about on the enormous amount of BS they spew. but you only look at his comments on the pages of unnamed artist and his girlfriend, so you only see one side. moreover, you make arbitrary and defaming characterizations from a biased point of view. adder, on the other hand, makes characterizations with compelling evidence and logic and reason, albiet biased by his being predisposed to awful designs. your ranting sounds awful similar to rabid fangirls on deviantArt to me, and personally, i call into question your name and join date. if you arent linked somehow, then you must just have an otaku fixation.

Are you and adder married or just lovers?

mrwednesday wrote:Actually most mysteries start with a body. This shirt isn't about the mystery. It's about the murder because there's really no mystery......the girl shot him in the face.

ok so your telling me that if the police found a body that had been shot in the face, and somehow somewhere down the road they found out a girl had done it the case is solved? there are mystery movies that have shown a dark scene of what happened right at the beginning where you cant see anyones face but you can see what happened.

Re: Murder Mystery

awesome this has my vote!

ItsReigning wrote:ok so your telling me that if the police found a body that had been shot in the face, and somehow somewhere down the road they found out a girl had done it the case is solved? there are mystery movies that have shown a dark scene of what happened right at the beginning where you cant see anyones face but you can see what happened.

well, yeah. If they found the victim, and determined that the girl shot him in the face, then the case is solved. by definition. duh.

everything else is just details.

honzo wrote:Are you and adder married or just lovers?

oh he's gonna love this... ::laughs::

Re: Murder Mystery

Awsome design! Love the smoke and the "soul" rising up, as well as the characters standing up out of the book. As for the murder part, I think it's completely justified in this work of art. Sign me up!

Josephus wrote:well, yeah. If they found the victim, and determined that the girl shot him in the face, then the case is solved. by definition. duh.

everything else is just details.

You should watch Basic Instinct or Memento. Great movies that start with the murder. After all - devil is in the details.

Then you have the movies in which one set of events is "imagined" oncscreen, then reworked as more and more witness testimony comes in.

I like it because the girl shoots the guy in the head - that right there is suspicious. If I've learned anything from police procedurals, it's that males tend to aim for the head while females almost always aim for the heart.

Re: Murder Mystery

People seeing the shirt know the girl did it. They don't know who she is or why she did it. That's the mystery the book answers inside.

The stylized violence would probably get away with a PG-13 rating because it's not photo-realistic. It's in silhouette which makes it less intense. James Bond gets away with putting bullet holes in people but since we don't see the blood pooling it's allowed.

RukasuFox wrote:And the fact that you recognize said references means...?

There is a vast difference between reading a book/watching a movie and using a reference from that book/movie and using references from said book/movie colloquially. Especially as an insult.

rachinha wrote:Definitely not PG-13. The halftone coming off her bewb could be a nipple.
Also, anyone else think the halftones look kind of stripy like plaid?

Yes, for some reason the halftones are arranged grid-style rather than the normal 45 degree dithered method. Peeking through the archive the artist has used similar halftones before, but not in a manner where they overlay each other like this... so I can't really guess at how it would print.

koopadaisy wrote: Boobies > flying brains.

I enjoy this comment immensely :D

Also, I agree. As far as rating systems go, this would be considered higher than PG-13. Though, it is stylized which could perhaps save it. Either way, can we reject it anyways so something with more color can take its place?

midflinx wrote:People seeing the shirt know the girl did it. They don't know who she is or why she did it. That's the mystery the book answers inside.

The stylized violence would probably get away with a PG-13 rating because it's not photo-realistic. It's in silhouette which makes it less intense. James Bond gets away with putting bullet holes in people but since we don't see the blood pooling it's allowed.

so pooling blood isn't allowable, but a blown up head, with bits of brain and skull spattering out from a gunshot as it happens IS OK? just because it's in silhouette?

go ahead, rationalize all you want. it's ludicrous.

Re: Murder Mystery

Whats with the halftones that cut off in a sharp line anyways? Ugly if you ask me...

But seriously not consistent with other Woot rejections.

Re: Murder Mystery

I would not say this is out of normal style. That's freaking ridiculous.

Re: Murder Mystery

cool design sir

Re: Murder Mystery

Eeew....

For Starters, at least learn to use halftones properly. I may not be a supremo in the art world but i still think i can tell when its done badly. And i still have no clue as to why you needed to have some guys brain juice put in there. It's normally not nice to walk around in a shirt with someones head blown to bits.

Thirdly , whats the secret Herbs and Spices in KFC chicken??

Josephus wrote:well, yeah. If they found the victim, and determined that the girl shot him in the face, then the case is solved. by definition. duh.

everything else is just details.

You say that as though there's only one girl in the world.

Just because they figure out that it's a girl doesn't mean they know WHICH girl - a pretty important detail, I think.

But again, this design doesn't take it INTO the mystery genre. It could just as easily fit into pretty much any other genre as well, which is why it should be considered off topic.

re: murder mystery

The shirt is very artistically done! Nice job.

People on here commenting about how the shirt shouldn't depict murder should really get a life. There are bigger things to worry about.

eHalcyon wrote:You say that as though there's only one girl in the world.

Just because they figure out that it's a girl doesn't mean they know WHICH girl - a pretty important detail, I think.

But again, this design doesn't take it INTO the mystery genre. It could just as easily fit into pretty much any other genre as well, which is why it should be considered off topic.

Mystery is a broad category, so it could still be on topic. It is a horrible shirt though.

dea007 wrote:Mystery is a broad category, so it could still be on topic. It is a horrible shirt though.

Well my point was that while it COULD be mystery, it could just as easily be anything else. Nothing in the design suggests "Mystery" specifically. As someone else said, the book in the design could just as easily be a Western.

eHalcyon wrote:You say that as though there's only one girl in the world.

Just because they figure out that it's a girl doesn't mean they know WHICH girl - a pretty important detail, I think.

But again, this design doesn't take it INTO the mystery genre. It could just as easily fit into pretty much any other genre as well, which is why it should be considered off topic.

But you do know which girl. That one.

If this was a real life situation, you would be able to pick that girl out of a lineup, because you saw her shoot the guy. You can argue that she is in silhouette, but I don't believe that is a mystery element. That is a "I can't draw non-deformed features" element.

Re: Murder Mystery

I dont really see anything mysterious about this shirt, the girl blew the guys brains out. End of story. Im pretty sure thats considered 'obscene' as far as legality is concerned in more than one district of the united states. I think its a great idea, but executed poorly (no pun intended).

eHalcyon wrote:Well my point was that while it COULD be mystery, it could just as easily be anything else. Nothing in the design suggests "Mystery" specifically. As someone else said, the book in the design could just as easily be a Western.

The book isn't a Western or a mystery. It's that one about that guy that lacks artistic talent, breaks the derby rules, has cheated in the past, and still continually wins. It's one of my favorites, along with The Sound and the Fury and The Sun Also Rises.

re: murder mystery

I really like this shirt... It is a murder in a novel. its cool how the people are standing on the pages. To me that is a mystery. Thumbs up.

esdulli wrote:I really like this shirt... It is a murder in a novel. its cool how the people are standing on the pages. To me that is a mystery. Thumbs up.

It's a mystery how the people are standing on the pages?

Re: Murder Mystery

It's not much of a mystery if we witness the murder, is it?

Re: Murder Mystery

splendid. Book readers will totally get it. You rock.

camoor wrote:L O L murder shouldn't be allowed on a shirt - 90% of this weeks entries would be rejected. Your opinion should be rejected. At best censorship is a necessary evil, and while gory and exaggerated this is a more honest depiction of murder then the classic Hollywood tiny gunshot wound complete with trickle of blood. It's also an interesting idea.

Now personally I don't like it, wouldn't wear it, didn't vote for it, but it does have artistic merit.

Well said too "FAIRY TALE LIKE" for me but executed nicely in terms of the animation of non animated art!

Re: Murder Mystery

First of all, this is not PG-13. A person has just shot another person, point blank, in the head. There is brain splatter coming out the back of the head. This is a tshirt which depicts the murder of one human being by another human being--in a realistic manner (even if in silhouette, they are still realistic, anatomically correct (maybe you could try that with your animals next time?), graphic silhouettes).
Second, this is off-topic. There is no mystery. The woman is shooting the man. That is it. There is nothing mysterious about this except for what tiny straws one might grasp in saying we don't know who it is or why it is. That is not a mystery for which depicting murder can be justified. If love is not a mystery (a boy trying to give a girl flowers), then blatant murder (a girl shooting a boy) is not a mystery either. Both love and murder are "mysteries only in the cosmic sense" when we already know the people involved. The why's and wherefore's are simply details that can only be explained as resulting from the vagaries of human emotions. If one is rejected, then so must the other one (this one), too.
Woot, please be consistent in your rejections.

fireattmidnight wrote:splendid. Book readers will totally get it. You rock.

Just because one reads does not mean that one will appreciate any old design featuring a book. I am a "book lover" (I read about 3-4 proper books a week). I get that this design references a murder occurring in a book. I also get that it does not reference a mystery as its main theme. It represents the actual, physical, just-happened-right-now-look-at-the-splattering-brains-and-the-smoking-gun murder. Basta.
Further, one has no basis on which to suggest that this is noir (were one to try that route). The genre of noir has always been about slinky suggestion or cold, swift action. This design does not embody the former whatsoever, and it is drawn as too obvious and too muddled (swirly halftones eeeeeverywhere!!!) to correctly fit the latter. I do not support designs simply because they involve books and I love them. That would be indiscriminate. And any true book lover knows that that is a terrible thing to be.

ugh, why is this still in the fog?

captivity wrote:I love this shirt. I didn't want to vote for it, because I wanted to vote for a cute one involving furry animals, but then I found myself wondering where to buy it. And realized that in order to own it, I'd have to vote for it. (Saturday Morning Brain Short Circuit)

And then I read the comments. And I felt I had to post that I disagree strongly with the idea that there should be a prohibition on violent artwork in shirt.woot. Good art is good art. Which is subjective to say the least, will be determined by popular opinion (voting) to state the obvious, and- wait, where did this soap box come from?

Show me the good art and maybe i will agree. This is not good art.

Re: Murder Mystery

I think it was all in self defense... maybe he tried some roofies on her.

snarkygal wrote:I'm very surprised that you like a shirt that shows a murder in progress EHalc. Not to mention the out of control halftones.

My opinion-should be rejected. Murder should not be allowed on a shirt. There is enough violence in our society. We don't need to walk around wearing it. Especially so poorly done.

Cry me a river.

I like and would buy. gmv

Coyne wrote:Not a huge fan of the design. Voting for it in response to the surprising amount of censorship fans around here.

That is the dumbest reason for voting for a design I've ever heard. The button to vote says "I want one". You clearly don't want to own this shirt, so you shouldn't vote for it.

re: murder mystery

Hot design, would work great for a t-shirt. My favorite out of the top and I usually don't like such large designs.

I see the same people constantly thread crapping. If you don't like the shirt please don't nag so much, no one cares.

Re: Murder Mystery

It is amazing how much controversy this shirt has popped up, I love it and see no reason to pull it down.

melanion90 wrote:It is amazing how much controversy this shirt has popped up, I love it and see no reason to pull it down.

Agreed! All I am reading anymore is blah blah blah. People need to take their controversy else where.

melanion90 wrote:It is amazing how much controversy this shirt has popped up, I love it and see no reason to pull it down.

I've always noticed that...about controversy drawing more votes. Maybe its all a conspiracy and these people are really criticizing this shirt because they like it the BEST and know that other people will rush to its defense and vote on it from defiance alone if they draw all this attention to it. GENIUS!

kylemittskus wrote:This shirt depicts a woman (seki) shooting a man (Adder) in the head.

That's pretty severe.

truffleshuffle wrote:I've always noticed that...about controversy drawing more votes. Maybe its all a conspiracy and these people are really criticizing this shirt because they like it the BEST and know that other people will rush to its defense and vote on it from defiance alone if they draw all this attention to it. GENIUS!

Let me rush to count how many of ***'s shirts I have...



::counts::


oh... none.

re: murder mystery

funny, I purposely was looking for ***'s submission and it was quite easy to find.

there's a lot of great looking entries for this derby, so I hope those get printed instead.

JadenKale wrote:Let me rush to count how many of ***'s shirts I have...



::counts::


oh... none.

Well obviously JadenKale can't understand a sarcastic comment. I think what truffleshuffle was saying is that it seems like the shirts steeped in drama are the shirts getting the votes a lot of the time. Controversy brings more attention, attention brings more votes and for every scathing comment the crtics leave there will be 20 sympathetic supporters who rush to defend the shirt with their comments and votes.

honzo wrote:Are you and adder married or just lovers?

If they are, they can call me for a 3-way anytime, because they're absolutely right on all counts.

Also, join date, japanese-esque username, etc. :]

Re: Murder Mystery

Great design and color choice. Slightly morbid, but you always need a dark shirt for your bad days. ;D

Re: Murder Mystery

I like the idea behind this shirt. I think it fits fine into the mystery category. If you look they're coming out of a book and the book is at least halfway through. So it's reasonable to assume that by that point in the mystery book shown, they have an idea of who did what. It's a cool idea of a story coming off the pages of a novel.

It may be a little graphic, it would probably go over better with people if the girl was just pointing a gun and hadn't actually fired. I personally don't care all that much though I admit I would probably hesitate and think over where I would wear this version.

I have, however, seen worse on shirt woot. I personally feel Shear Bad Luck from May 20th was far more graphic since there was blood and bone. This is just an outline. If that shirt can get through without being rejected, I don't see why this one wouldn't.

blambelet wrote:Well obviously JadenKale can't understand a sarcastic comment. I think what truffleshuffle was saying is that it seems like the shirts steeped in drama are the shirts getting the votes a lot of the time. Controversy brings more attention, attention brings more votes and for every scathing comment the crtics leave there will be 20 sympathetic supporters who rush to defend the shirt with their comments and votes.

I totally took it as sarcasm, thus the comment I made.

Re: Murder Mystery

I will buy this shirt to:

Piss off anyone who frowns upon murder displayed prominently upon a t-shirt!

fireattmidnight wrote:splendid. Book readers will totally get it. You rock.

I take some issue with this. As an avid reader, I'm not a fan of the design, and I don't think it has any particular appeal to bookworms. There's nothing really literary about it, or mysterious for that matter. If it weren't titled "murder mystery", it'd just be a depiction of a murder amongst two ghostly figures floating above a book. Murder occurs in books of all genres, not just mysteries. The three main elements (the book, the people and the fog) all seem fairly slapped together in a way that, at best, loosely fits the theme.

jmmbell1987 wrote:I take some issue with this. As an avid reader, I'm not a fan of the design, and I don't think it has any particular appeal to bookworms. There's nothing really literary about it, or mysterious for that matter. If it weren't titled "murder mystery", it'd just be a depiction of a murder amongst two ghostly figures floating above a book. Murder occurs in books of all genres, not just mysteries. The three main elements (the book, the people and the fog) all seem fairly slapped together in a way that, at best, loosely fits the theme.

Indeed.

blambelet wrote:Well obviously JadenKale can't understand a sarcastic comment. I think what truffleshuffle was saying is that it seems like the shirts steeped in drama are the shirts getting the votes a lot of the time. Controversy brings more attention, attention brings more votes and for every scathing comment the crtics leave there will be 20 sympathetic supporters who rush to defend the shirt with their comments and votes.

And that should not be how shirts get printed.

That's like saying that if my cat dies, I should get printed. Which is untrue.

cleverconveyence wrote:If they are, they can call me for a 3-way anytime, because they're absolutely right on all counts.

Also, join date, japanese-esque username, etc. :]

I don't know what marm is up to, but have your friends call my friends and we can be friends, you know what I'm sayin'?

Re: Murder Mystery

I don't see how this fits the theme...without knowing it's supposed to be a mystery book. I would say it looks like an action-adventure book since there is no element of mystery.

Anyways...all I was going to say was...this isn't a very good looking shirt.

jmmbell1987 wrote:I take some issue with this. As an avid reader, I'm not a fan of the design, and I don't think it has any particular appeal to bookworms. There's nothing really literary about it, or mysterious for that matter. If it weren't titled "murder mystery", it'd just be a depiction of a murder amongst two ghostly figures floating above a book. Murder occurs in books of all genres, not just mysteries. The three main elements (the book, the people and the fog) all seem fairly slapped together in a way that, at best, loosely fits the theme.

People who read genre fiction often don't understand the nuances of truly just loving books. I love books for the art of crafting a story well. That doesn't mean every book I read must be flawless, but it does mean the book has to do what it intends, and do so well. Whether it is War and Peace, or Don't Let The Pigeon Drive the Bus. So I want a bookish shirt that does that WELL. This doesn't execute well at all. It is muddy and ugly.

I also didn't pick up nevermore, because it is also executed horribly. It is hacked apart with no concern for content, and echoed back so clinically I can get no enjoyment out of it. I can't see how anyone who truly cares about literature (or design for that matter) could want either.

AdderXYU wrote:And that should not be how shirts get printed.

That's like saying that if my cat dies, I should get printed. Which is untrue.

thank you, that's what i was saying. I don't think it should work that way either.

AdderXYU wrote:People who read genre fiction often don't understand the nuances of truly just loving books. I love books for the art of crafting a story well. That doesn't mean every book I read must be flawless, but it does mean the book has to do what it intends, and do so well. Whether it is War and Peace, or Don't Let The Pigeon Drive the Bus. So I want a bookish shirt that does that WELL. This doesn't execute well at all. It is muddy and ugly.

I also didn't pick up nevermore, because it is also executed horribly. It is hacked apart with no concern for content, and echoed back so clinically I can get no enjoyment out of it. I can't see how anyone who truly cares about literature (or design for that matter) could want either.

I don't see the main appeal to this shirt as being the book. In fact, I feel like the main appeal is a guy getting his ****in' brain blown out, which is more pulp than high literature. The book is just a bonus; I agree that it is definitely silly to vote for this because one 'likes books.'

And as for Nevermore, you have to remember it is a T-shirt and a T-shirt will never be a substitute for the distinct feel of paper between the fingers, and the raised serif print of a page. I think I understand you better now, Adder; while you are still too negative for my taste, it is apparent that you have much higher expectations from what I see as T-shirts first and art second and you see as art first and T-shirts second.

blambelet wrote:thank you, that's what i was saying. I don't think it should work that way either.

So you are saying that people shouldn't complain, even when it is right to do so, or are you saying this shouldn't be allowed to win, because the votes are likely not coming in based on quality?

Because option one is ludicrous, and option two is sensible. Because the only way this derby should work is by ANYTHING other than votes alone. If we cannot trust a pure democracy, checks and balances need to be put in place. Like in real democracies. Such as our own.

RukasuFox wrote:I don't see the main appeal to this shirt as being the book. In fact, I feel like the main appeal is a guy getting his ****in' brain blown out, which is more pulp than high literature. The book is just a bonus; I agree that it is definitely silly to vote for this because one 'likes books.'

And as for Nevermore, you have to remember it is a T-shirt and a T-shirt will never be a substitute for the distinct feel of paper between the fingers, and the raised serif print of a page. I think I understand you better now, Adder; while you are still too negative for my taste, it is apparent that you have much higher expectations from what I see as T-shirts first and art second and you see as art first and T-shirts second.

Even pulp has higher standards. Pulp would do it with way more gritty finesse. and it would leave you hooked to find out more.

AdderXYU wrote:Even pulp has higher standards. Pulp would do it with way more gritty finesse. and it would leave you hooked to find out more.

*insert predictable response to predictable insult* That said, I would love to see some designs on w00t with 'gritty finesse' although the PG-13 no PG no G no whatever the heck the rating system is around here wouldn't let it. Which reminds me, I want my davidshenoda alien, dangit! Curse you incidental text, curse you.

RukasuFox wrote:*insert predictable response to predictable insult* That said, I would love to see some designs on w00t with 'gritty finesse' although the PG-13 no PG no G no whatever the heck the rating system is around here wouldn't let it. Which reminds me, I want my davidshenoda alien, dangit! Curse you incidental text, curse you.

I wouldn't. It would get boring wicked fast.

Which is why standard pulps are different than glossies. and why both weren't as well produced as books. because designs like that, like pulps themselves, would be meant to be consumed and forgotten. Personally, I'd like to think $1000 is a payout that should go to something a bit less ephemeral in its worth.

Re: Murder Mystery

Are you all kidding me? What is better than a murder scene? Especially with this mysterious theme. I absolutely love this shirt, though black would have been better! And lastly, don't blame the country's violence on books, TV, and shirt designs, PLEASE!!!

AdderXYU wrote:I wouldn't. It would get boring wicked fast.

Which is why standard pulps are different than glossies. and why both weren't as well produced as books. because designs like that, like pulps themselves, would be meant to be consumed and forgotten. Personally, I'd like to think $1000 is a payout that should go to something a bit less ephemeral in its worth.

T-shirts are generally consumed and forgotten themselves...though more from their inability to survive multiple washings than any fault of their own. You are right that raising any limitations would get old fast, although I would imagine that anything really gritty would best. thing. ever. to capture the votes of your average w00ter.

conan151091 wrote:Are you all kidding me? What is better than a murder scene? Especially with this mysterious theme. I absolutely love this shirt, though black would have been better! And lastly, don't blame the country's violence on books, TV, and shirt designs, PLEASE!!!

It's all them dangerous video games!

RukasuFox wrote:T-shirts are generally consumed and forgotten themselves...though more from their inability to survive multiple washings than any fault of their own. You are right that raising any limitations would get old fast, although I would imagine that anything really gritty would best. thing. ever. to capture the votes of your average w00ter.

this is probably just about the most violent shirt a wooter has ever submit to a derby. So either you're wrong, or, what I find to be more likely, the user got into the hotness and fog in the same illicit manner as always.

AdderXYU wrote:this is probably just about the most violent shirt a wooter has ever submit to a derby. So either you're wrong, or, what I find to be more likely, the user got into the hotness and fog in the same illicit manner as always.

You think that the vast majority of people have the same 'refined' tastes as you do? I think it's more probable that you are merely out of touch with the average wants of your average w00ter than anything 'illicit' going on.

RukasuFox wrote:You think that the vast majority of people have the same 'refined' tastes as you do? I think it's more probable that you are merely out of touch with the average wants of your average w00ter than anything 'illicit' going on.

I want a taco bar outside my house, manned by indentured servants who know everything there is to know about spices.

Now, after you finish thinking about all the people you know who would want that same thing, tell me if I should be allowed get it, or if anyone should.

As ever, the issue is that I am fighting not for shirts I want, but for shirts I feel deserve to be rewarded based on basic laws of aesthetics and quality, while most wooters just want a shirt to win because they want it. I never voted for the shirts I've been happiest to see win derbies.

conan151091 wrote:Are you all kidding me? What is better than a murder scene? Especially with this mysterious theme. I absolutely love this shirt, though black would have been better! And lastly, don't blame the country's violence on books, TV, and shirt designs, PLEASE!!!

Look, common sense just walked in.

AdderXYU wrote:

As ever, the issue is that I am fighting not for shirts I want, but for shirts I feel deserve to be rewarded based on basic laws of aesthetics and quality, while most wooters just want a shirt to win because they want it. I never voted for the shirts I've been happiest to see win derbies.

I didn't realize such laws exist. If you mean your personal laws then by all means, that's great. But to just plain say that a shirt doesn't deserve to win or receive votes or survive at all based on your own opinion is not constructive. No biggie, just sayin'.

This shirt tells me a story. The "girl" shooting the "boy" is actually an agent sent from the future to destroy a humanoid robot from destroying civilization. The "brain splatter" so many of you refer to is actually metal and parts. Or this could be taking place in a digital world and the splatter is merely pixels (doesn't matter).

I love the swirly halftones. They depict a sense of mystery themselves, bringing the story of the novel to life in ones imagination. I am also partial to minimalistic art and subtlety on t-shirts, which this portrays with its use of specific colors and yes, silhouettes.

qdibble wrote:stuff

The major problem many are continuing to have with this shirt isn't just the design, it's the supporters. When you have to create a giant convoluted story in your own head to explain why a shirt should be on topic that is different than every other person's giant convoluted story this really should be a clue that it really isn't on topic otherwise it would be self evident and everyone would come to the same conclusion.

That said, there has always been a certain acceptance of being slightly off topic or pandering for, and only for, those designs which are remarkable well designed and executed and can stand on their own merits.

This is not one of them. The color choices are very poor particularly for the shirt color chosen. The half-tones will look sloppy when printed because most of the blending is a function of the small comp and the digital image. As with all the other very heavy halftone shirts, this will look like a bunch of dots strewn all over the shirt. On top of that, the placement on the shirt isn't very good either. Skinny tall designs never really look good centered and this artist has done flourish designs up the left side way too often even he knows he can't put it there.

If this shirt is representative of anything, it's a Lifetime move thriller where the battered wife finally fights back against her abusive husband. No mystery there. It's all laid out in front of us.

And as a final note for all of the "anti-censorship" crusaders out there, the protests of this shirt not being pg-13 have nothing to do with censorship. It is an appeal to woot to maintain their own restrictions which is something they have yet to apply to lucrative artists. Why they won't in this case is a little confusing because the bottom line is that this shirt will not sell well. No one is going to buy this for their kids and at least half are not going to want a depiction of murder on their stomach. This would be a perfect time for woot to pretend that it holds all of its designers to the same standards regardless of how many shirts they sell.

mrwednesday wrote:...

Well said.

Imagination is the cornerstone of artistic intent/interpretation. It's difficult for me to imagine that someone could define an artist's work as "off topic" due to the fact that no one can enter the mind of another in order to truly understand their intent.

"Sloppy" printing is considered in good taste to some. It's an opinion. It is understood that shirts may not or will not print as portrayed. Perhaps wearing such a shirt with "a bunch of dots strewn all over" would be considered in poor taste by most. It WOULD be a shame if someone were disappointed when receiving such a shirt and be embarrassed to wear it.

I also agree that woot should be consistent with their restrictions, but these restrictions should be based on their opinions of what the rules entail. I think the graphicness of this design could be disputed (as I tried to convey in my last poorly written comment).

Re: Murder Mystery

Re: Murder Mystery

the blurred halftones make me nauseas

Re: Murder Mystery

Things rejected for crossing the PG-13 line in the past:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=22714

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=26833

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=29166

You decide is depicting murder is as bad, or worse than those...

KyokoKensei wrote:I like the idea behind this shirt. I think it fits fine into the mystery category. If you look they're coming out of a book and the book is at least halfway through. So it's reasonable to assume that by that point in the mystery book shown, they have an idea of who did what. It's a cool idea of a story coming off the pages of a novel.

It may be a little graphic, it would probably go over better with people if the girl was just pointing a gun and hadn't actually fired. I personally don't care all that much though I admit I would probably hesitate and think over where I would wear this version.

I have, however, seen worse on shirt woot. I personally feel Shear Bad Luck from May 20th was far more graphic since there was blood and bone. This is just an outline. If that shirt can get through without being rejected, I don't see why this one wouldn't.

I agree; I would feel much better about this shirt if she hadn’t fired the gun.

In any case, my first reaction was “Oh wow, what a cool shirt! This declares a love of mystery books so perfectly!” Then I noticed the brains. Well, I still think it declares a love of mystery and fiction; I totally disagree with those who say it is off-topic. As others have commented, some mysteries start out with a shadowy figure committing a murder, and some actually tell you who the killer is, often before the police or detective know.

In the end, though, I was crushed that this shirt was too graphic for me to wear. I do a lot of babysitting, and kids love to figure out and talk about woot tees (another bonus—five minutes of keeping them occupied!), so I am more aware of if what I’m wearing is appropriate for children to see, even if I’m just out running errands. Whether or not it’s PG-13 is a hard judgment call, but it’s certainly not PG, so I’ll reluctantly pass.

AdderXYU wrote:If we cannot trust a pure democracy, checks and balances need to be put in place. Like in real democracies. Such as our own.

A whole government to run a business. Wait, this sounds familiar.....

Re: Murder Mystery

I must say, I've gotten a huge kick out of reading the comments for this entry: it seems like the more people flame the design, the better it does. If the aim is to keep this design from printing perhaps it would have been a wiser plan to keep quiet and simply not vote for this particular shirt?

That being said, I like the image though I'm skeptical about how well it will print and the placement could have been better thought out. This definitely makes me think of a good, down and dirty murder mystery-an enjoyable break from the cleanly genteel variety apparently preferred by many here.

dea007 wrote:Yes, that is what I'm telling you. Before Adder commented, I had no idea who drew this shirt.

Anyways, this shirt is disturbing, to say the least. I agree, doesn't fit into PG-13 standards

I agree, they pulled shirts that were not as violent as this one. I think someone is getting special treatment here. I think it is terrific artwork but it did not need the brains being blown out the back of the guys head.

trekmiss wrote:Where is the mystery? A girl is blowing a guy's brains out. No mystery there. IMO, not that it matters, this shirt is off topic. It's also horrible.

My thoughts exactly

Re: Murder Mystery

I got to wondering about the fine detail in the shirtcomp for this design, so I tried to recreate it. I opened a 16x20 300 dpi blank design, and pasted the image of the design into it. I then shrank the higher resolution detail picture provided in the shirt comp to the size of the 16x20 design. I drew a couple of cyan lines of 1 point diameter across the design, and made this image of the result. It looks to me like there are a variety of design elements that are much smaller than woot's 1 point minimum width limit. There are also a lot of lines that just fade away, as if they aren't vector elements at all. I suppose that they are gradients? I also see places where there are halftones that overlap, causing the minimum width of the covered halftone dot to be narrower than the 1 point limit. Overall, I see a lot in just this small piece of the overall design that looks to me as if it is in woot's 'unprintable' range.
I don't think I made errors in how I did this, but I'd like to hear in what way I'm completely wrong, etc. I'm still trying to learn this design stuff, myself, and I may be mistaken.

Josephus wrote:
I got to wondering about the fine detail in the shirtcomp for this design, so I tried to recreate it. I opened a 16x20 300 dpi blank design, and pasted the image of the design into it. I then shrank the higher resolution detail picture provided in the shirt comp to the size of the 16x20 design. I drew a couple of cyan lines of 1 point diameter across the design, and made this image of the result. It looks to me like there are a variety of design elements that are much smaller than woot's 1 point minimum width limit. There are also a lot of lines that just fade away, as if they aren't vector elements at all. I suppose that they are gradients? I also see places where there are halftones that overlap, causing the minimum width of the covered halftone dot to be narrower than the 1 point limit. Overall, I see a lot in just this small piece of the overall design that looks to me as if it is in woot's 'unprintable' range.
I don't think I made errors in how I did this, but I'd like to hear in what way I'm completely wrong, etc. I'm still trying to learn this design stuff, myself, and I may be mistaken.

Taking apart his composition .jpg doesn't make sense at all, because it's not the file he submitted to be printed.

It's like you're taking apart a blurry photograph of bigfoot pixel by pixel to determine if bigfoot can exist.

ericleekent wrote:Taking apart his composition .jpg doesn't make sense at all, because it's not the file he submitted to be printed.

It's like you're taking apart a blurry photograph of bigfoot pixel by pixel to determine if bigfoot can exist.

But the detail that CAN be seen has to fit. And, on the image, he has posted a higher resolution portion of the design, which is what I looked at, not the low resolution portion,; that part I only used to get the size right.
The lines are clearly narrower than 1 point, the dots are certainly smaller than 1 point. Furthermore, a line that is shown blurrier than the print file is going to be a larger diameter than the sharp version would be if anything. They look smaller here, which means that any visible blurriness makes the original even smaller than they show here.

If he's posting an image that isn't the same as his print file in the visible detail, then he's not showing the voters what they're going to get. At the resolution shown, it HAS to look the same as the final shirt print file will look. If it isn't then everyone is voting on a lie. I'm sure that the print file is essentially the same as the file made to produce his jpgs, he's not one who would mislead like that.

Oh, and there's really no mystery about bigfoot. The guys who took the famous photo have confessed that they faked it. I think the guy even still had the suit he wore in the photo. sorry.

and the famous photo of the Loch Ness monster? Also confessed to by the little penguins who created it as a fake. sorry again.

Re: Murder Mystery

Also has text, the "smoke" is a question mark!!!

Josephus wrote:But the detail that CAN be seen has to fit. And, on the image, he has posted a higher resolution portion of the design, which is what I looked at, not the low resolution portion,; that part I only used to get the size right.
The lines are clearly narrower than 1 point, the dots are certainly smaller than 1 point. Furthermore, a line that is shown blurrier than the print file is going to be a larger diameter than the sharp version would be if anything. They look smaller here, which means that any visible blurriness makes the original even smaller than they show here.

If he's posting an image that isn't the same as his print file in the visible detail, then he's not showing the voters what they're going to get. At the resolution shown, it HAS to look the same as the final shirt print file will look. If it isn't then everyone is voting on a lie. I'm sure that the print file is essentially the same as the file made to produce his jpgs, he's not one who would mislead like that.

Even if he posted a higher resolution version, it's still never going to be the same as his vector file that will be printed. You can zoom in an infinite number of times on a line in the vector file and the edges will still be sharp. Not so in any resolution jpg. When an image is converted to a jpg, information is lost. That's the whole purpose of converting it to a jpg - to save file space. So if some lines and dots seem smaller than 1point, it's probably because the conversion from vector to jpg decided to discard that information. This isn't defending the shirt - just helping to clarify a point of confusion. If woot posted the vector files for everyone to see, it would put a lot more strain on their bandwidth and each page would load a lot slower.

Re: Murder Mystery

I don't think this could be rejected for being off topic. *** could just say that this scene is the END of the mystery, where you see who did it in a flashback, or that the REAL mystery is what happens to the soul (represented by that green thing) after it leaves the body, or some other things.

Still, I didn't vote for it. I doubt it will print well, and I can't see myself wearing something that violent. It's not my style, and I work with kids.

As for the PG-13 rule, ratings are so subjective. Which do you think was more violent? The Dark Knight (PG-13) or There Will Be Blood (R)?

Woot seems to prefer to err on the side of caution, which makes sense, because they don't want to alienate customers.



The REAL mystery seems to be whether Woot will reject this, or prove (again?) to have double-standards.

ericleekent wrote:Even if he posted a higher resolution version, it's still never going to be the same as his vector file that will be printed. You can zoom in an infinite number of times on a line in the vector file and the edges will still be sharp. Not so in any resolution jpg. When an image is converted to a jpg, information is lost. That's the whole purpose of converting it to a jpg - to save file space. So if some lines and dots seem smaller than 1point, it's probably because the conversion from vector to jpg decided to discard that information. This isn't defending the shirt - just helping to clarify a point of confusion. If woot posted the vector files for everyone to see, it would put a lot more strain on their bandwidth and each page would load a lot slower.

Sorry. I know nothing about this, but this seems like your argument and it makes no sense to me:

jpeg images actually shrink the size of a dot and/or line. If that's accurate, then fair enough. And if I misunderstood your argument, I will stand corrected. But, I don't think that makes sense.

.

Re: Murder Mystery

Wow. As someone who has had gun violence in their family, I find this extremely unappealing. I am guessing that I would find it unappealing even if it didn't hit me on a personal level. It is amazingly graphic and not in a good way. And um, what part of it is mysterious? That we don't know the names of these two people? I don't see the mystery at all. I usually am uncomfortable criticizing these designs, because I can barely draw stick figures, so who am I to comment? However, this just seemed to need a response.

Re: Murder Mystery

I think if this one stays in I will be done with buying and submitting artwork on woot. It will prove that not everyone gets treated equal here. This artwork has halftones, violence, and text (contains a huge question mark) which are all things that everyone else has been rejected with.

MaryESP wrote:I don't think this could be rejected for being off topic. *** could just say that this scene is the END of the mystery, where you see who did it in a flashback, or that the REAL mystery is what happens to the soul (represented by that green thing) after it leaves the body, or some other things.

Still, I didn't vote for it. I doubt it will print well, and I can't see myself wearing something that violent. It's not my style, and I work with kids.

As for the PG-13 rule, ratings are so subjective. Which do you think was more violent? The Dark Knight (PG-13) or There Will Be Blood (R)?

Woot seems to prefer to err on the side of caution, which makes sense, because they don't want to alienate customers.



The REAL mystery seems to be whether Woot will reject this, or prove (again?) to have double-standards.

Read this thread and tell me if woot has double standards or not.

Someone at shirt.woot has a daughter who is in love with One Piece fan-art, and the duo responsible for questionably on topic and repeatedly poorly executed work is providing it in place of immunity from the rules of the derby. That is the only explanation that I can possibly work out as to why, week in and week out, there are two users who could submit german cranberry apple pie bake-offs and not get rejected.

Stormink wrote:Things rejected for crossing the PG-13 line in the past:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=22714

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=26833

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=29166

You decide is depicting murder is as bad, or worse than those...

The fact is that all three of those shirts are sexual in nature. You can't go far from Nickelodeon before you find violence. Heck, within many on the cartoons on television you find guns, and violence. What you do not find in many cases is sex, or things that are sexual in nature. I am not arguing whether it is right or wrong that violence is depicted in the world as "okay" or "PG-13" and sex is not, I am just stating that it seems to be the case.

Candihanks wrote:Also has text, the "smoke" is a question mark!!!

Really? It is amazing, you solved the mystery! There is no possible way that the author could have made a curvy line, he must have used a ? in his work! Off with his head!

pssquishy wrote:Sorry. I know nothing about this, but this seems like your argument and it makes no sense to me:

jpeg images actually shrink the size of a dot and/or line. If that's accurate, then fair enough. And if I misunderstood your argument, I will stand corrected. But, I don't think that makes sense.

I don't think I've explained it well. The jpg and the vector file represent a line in different ways. The vector stores the location of the two endpoints and how thick it is. With this method, if you zoom in, your screen will re-render how best to show that line, which is why it will always appear sharp.

With a jpg, the line is stored as an image. Try this - take the same hi-detail jpg that Josephus drew his lines on, and use Photoshop to zoom in on it a LOT (like, click "zoom" 20-50 times). As you get closer and closer, you'll see the images start to break up into individual squares. When you see this happen, try counting the different colors there. I guarantee you'll count way more than the 5 that woot allows. This doesn't mean the artist selected more than 5 colors.

Instead, these extra colors came from the jpg conversion. The jpg file breaks down the image into a grid of squares - the smaller the squares, the finer the resolution. If you don't understand this, try drawing a 3x3 grid, and then try to make a diagonal line by coloring in certain squares. It'll look like stairs rather than a smooth line. Because of this, the jpg then compensated by adding colors to blend from one intended color to another intended color, tricking your eye. (Keep in mind, it's dealing with really small squares that you can't really pick out individually with your naked eye). But when you zoom in on the jpg, you're looking at fewer and fewer squares at a time but in the same space, thereby making each square bigger, until you get to something that looks like your 3x3 grid.

kylemittskus wrote:So, we're ok with violent murder on shirts now?

And... mystery. Remember? It's that thing called a theme that the shirts are supposed to follow...

Unlike Adder, I think that there is at least one shirt that belongs perfectly. See how it stuck to the theme?

I am ok with violent murder on shirts now. I don't know about "we"

AdderXYU wrote:I don't know what marm is up to, but have your friends call my friends and we can be friends, you know what I'm sayin'?

Sure thing, just remember: sharing is caring! ;]

Stormink wrote:Things rejected for crossing the PG-13 line in the past:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=22714

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=26833

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=29166

You decide is depicting murder is as bad, or worse than those...

I'm personally interested that none of these rejections were violence based.

As for the person that asked if The Dark Knight was more violent than There Will Be Blood, there's a LARGE difference between implied violence and explicit violence. This violence is pretty damn explicit.

HeartlineTwist wrote:I'm personally interested that none of these rejections were violence based.

As for the person that asked if The Dark Knight was more violent than There Will Be Blood, there's a LARGE difference between implied violence and explicit violence. This violence is pretty damn explicit.

I remember at least one rejection for violence in silhouettes that I *think* was less explicit than this one, but it was a long time ago and by an unknown designer, so I can't remember anything that would help in finding it again.

melanion90 wrote:Really? It is amazing, you solved the mystery! There is no possible way that the author could have made a curvy line, he must have used a ? in his work! Off with his head!

That is no accident curvy line. Ok, a curvy line made into a question mark even dotted under the curvy line in a derby where everyone and their brother has put question marks on the shirts (but this one is ok).

Re: Murder Mystery

Dammit, this happens every single time.

People start bringing up the most chocolate milk reasons ever to reject a shirt (IT LOOKS LIKE A QUESTION MARK, LULZ) when such things are completely ignoring glaring issues with a design in the first place (questionably on theme and, you know, the violence thing).

On top of that, the criticisms are pretty valid.

HeartlineTwist wrote:Dammit, this happens every single time.

People start bringing up the most chocolate milk reasons ever to reject a shirt (IT LOOKS LIKE A QUESTION MARK, LULZ) when such things are completely ignoring glaring issues with a design in the first place (questionably on theme and, you know, the violence thing).

On top of that, the criticisms are pretty valid.

Oh, I already mentioned the violence but 1 thing that has gotten about a dozen shirts already is the text question mark. If woot want to overlook the violence and halftones, by their own strict rules about no ? marks this one's got to go.

RukasuFox wrote:I gotta say I had no idea it was a ***** until I looked it up. I think it is obvious by now that Adder is a Terminator sent from the future to kill ***** only he was trapped in a computer and can now only follow him around the interwebs spewing meaningless fulminations in a failed attempt to suck out all the happiness *****s many popular T-shirt designs bring to both children and adults alike. Adder is a Broken Record Dementor, more commonly known as a troll and other than having a handy dandy Penguin patronus on hand the next best strategy is to ignore him completely.

Terminator *and* Dementor is too much credit I think. Just Dementor will do. He sucksss soulsss more than anything. I really can't read all of this page because of the QQ overload but I had to stop at the Penguin patronus. If you make a successful spell for that let me know. Friggin awesome.

Oh, and...

It's woot's call on the halftones - they've rejected small tones before. Kind of a moot point to argue that.

It's woot's call on the violence. I would personally like to see the G rating gone and more of a true PG-13 standard.

How do you know who those people are? They're silhouettes. Unless you can identify the murderer visually, get prints, the weapon, DNA, or motive, etc. then tough luck. Haven't you seen NCIS? Silhouettes aren't enough.

fablefire wrote:Terminator *and* Dementor is too much credit I think. Just Dementor will do. He sucksss soulsss more than anything. I really can't read all of this page because of the QQ overload but I had to stop at the Penguin patronus. If you make a successful spell for that let me know. Friggin awesome.

Oh, and...

It's woot's call on the halftones - they've rejected small tones before. Kind of a moot point to argue that.

It's woot's call on the violence. I would personally like to see the G rating gone and more of a true PG-13 standard.

How do you know who those people are? They're silhouettes. Unless you can identify the murderer visually, get prints, the weapon, DNA, or motive, etc. then tough luck. Haven't you seen NCIS? Silhouettes aren't enough.

You actually think that this is on theme?

Candihanks wrote:Oh, I already mentioned the violence but 1 thing that has gotten about a dozen shirts already is the text question mark. If woot want to overlook the violence and halftones, by their own strict rules about no ? marks this one's got to go.

Specify to me the question mark. I can kind of see it, but this is the same sort of logic that makes people read the SFX dust in Lion King as SEX.

And it's even a far cry from slapping a question mark on something. There's precedence for NOT rejecting parts of designs that end up bearing resemblance to text (ie, X's for dead eyes, etc.)

ericleekent wrote:I don't think I've explained it well. The jpg and the vector file represent a line in different ways. The vector stores the location of the two endpoints and how thick it is. With this method, if you zoom in, your screen will re-render how best to show that line, which is why it will always appear sharp.

With a jpg, the line is stored as an image. Try this - take the same hi-detail jpg that Josephus drew his lines on, and use Photoshop to zoom in on it a LOT (like, click "zoom" 20-50 times). As you get closer and closer, you'll see the images start to break up into individual squares. When you see this happen, try counting the different colors there. I guarantee you'll count way more than the 5 that woot allows. This doesn't mean the artist selected more than 5 colors.

Instead, these extra colors came from the jpg conversion. The jpg file breaks down the image into a grid of squares - the smaller the squares, the finer the resolution. If you don't understand this, try drawing a 3x3 grid, and then try to make a diagonal line by coloring in certain squares. It'll look like stairs rather than a smooth line. Because of this, the jpg then compensated by adding colors to blend from one intended color to another intended color, tricking your eye. (Keep in mind, it's dealing with really small squares that you can't really pick out individually with your naked eye). But when you zoom in on the jpg, you're looking at fewer and fewer squares at a time but in the same space, thereby making each square bigger, until you get to something that looks like your 3x3 grid.

Oh, I understood perfectly how all of that works, from the get-go. What you're talking about here has nothing(much) to do with the loss of info in a jpg. This is all about anti-aliasing of the line so that it fools your eye into thinking it's a curved line instead of a jagged bunch of straight lines.

Their point is valid, though. If a jpg makes lines look thinner, and dots look smaller, then jpgs wouldn't look like the original at all, they would be very distorted, and look like it. Overall, the less transparent part of the blurry line has got to look like the width of the original line- if it doesn't, then it wouldn't fool your eye into thinking it looks like a photo. The higher resolution part of his shirt image has an inherently sharper image to look at, and by making the overall design the size of a 16x20 design, and then taking the high resolution area and shrinking it back down to size, it retains more sharpness than the overall design. This portion is what you are looking at in the image I uploaded, and it is this portion that shows pretty clearly that the lines are narrower than the 1 point line I added, and the dots are smaller in diameter as well. Further, there are lots of areas where it looks like a gradient would be needed to produce the colors seen. I can't come up with a way to have spot colors on a shirt that will look like the image that the designer is showing us. It is simply WRONG to submit an image like this when you know that it won't be printed like this.

Of course, the designer could always post a high resolution closeup with a one point line on it like I placed on the admittedly lower resolution image that I had to work from...wanna bet on how soon THAT happens?

seriously, I could be wrong- the lines could be 1 point wide, the dots could be 1 point in diameter, but from what it looks like to me, and without seeing a high resolution image, I don't think so. I'd love to see an explanation for how the apparent gradients are going to be printed using spot colors with minimum dot sizes of 1 point.

cobolisdead wrote:You actually think that this is on theme?

I do. I see an open book (could be translated as an open case) about a murder. Silhouettes evoke a mystery because we know someone killed the victim, but we can't see their face. IMO, it's a depiction of a murder mystery book.

Re: Murder Mystery

Just another Zombie/headshot shirt...


meh.

Re: Murder Mystery

I could possibly buy that this is about a murder mystery. But I know the context this shirt was designed in.

But this is just gross. NOT PG-13 as PG-13 is usually defined:

"There may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. " (from http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp)

This depiction of violence is both realistic and extreme.

Plus, this is actually one of the worst looking designs I have seen in the fog yet. Maybe I can't appreciate the halftones because I'm not a designer, but this looks like one of those cheapo 1980s shirts they sell to tourists on the beach.

Disappointing this is in the fog.

my sense is this won't print/wear well. what do others think on the "printability" of it?

melanion90 wrote:The fact is that all three of those shirts are sexual in nature. You can't go far from Nickelodeon before you find violence. Heck, within many on the cartoons on television you find guns, and violence. What you do not find in many cases is sex, or things that are sexual in nature. I am not arguing whether it is right or wrong that violence is depicted in the world as "okay" or "PG-13" and sex is not, I am just stating that it seems to be the case.

sure you do! Look at Shrek... for sure not rated R and there are sexual references about her soon to be prince "compensating," with the ogre and donkey winking and nudging each other. AND The magic mirror is having a mock dating game for Prince DuLoc. Talking about Snow White the host says, "Bachelorette number two is a cape wearing gal from the land of fancy. Although she lives with seven other men she's not easy."... these are clearly sexual references in PG-13 movies. Certainly there are also visual representation of sexually suggestive imagery in children's movies as well (i.e. the excessive mermaid cleavage in The Little Mermaid for one example).

I think this shirt would be just as effective without the blood spatter/brains being shot out. With that small change we still have an "on-theme" shirt without the needlessly graphic bit.

AdderXYU wrote:Read this thread and tell me if woot has double standards or not.

Someone at shirt.woot has a daughter who is in love with One Piece fan-art, and the duo responsible for questionably on topic and repeatedly poorly executed work is providing it in place of immunity from the rules of the derby. That is the only explanation that I can possibly work out as to why, week in and week out, there are two users who could submit german cranberry apple pie bake-offs and not get rejected.

Gah, another disappointing derby, don't remind me! Still, I'm glad there's An Unfolding Mystery.

HeartlineTwist wrote:I'm personally interested that none of these rejections were violence based.

Here's one: Rejected because: A little too gruesome thanks

sbaszto wrote:sure you do! Look at Shrek... for sure not rated R and there are sexual references about her soon to be prince "compensating," with the ogre and donkey winking and nudging each other. AND The magic mirror is having a mock dating game for Prince DuLoc. Talking about Snow White the host says, "Bachelorette number two is a cape wearing gal from the land of fancy. Although she lives with seven other men she's not easy."... these are clearly sexual references in PG-13 movies. Certainly there are also visual representation of sexually suggestive imagery in children's movies as well (i.e. the excessive mermaid cleavage in The Little Mermaid for one example).

Sure, but the difference is that it takes a mind like yours and mine to know what those things mean, where as in most cases violence is pretty straight forward.

melanion90 wrote:Sure, but the difference is that it takes a mind like yours and mine to know what those things mean, where as in most cases violence is pretty straight forward.

Less drama at Threadless

Candihanks wrote:Less drama at Threadless

Always. But Threadless alum would most likely tell you in far more blunt tone what they thought of an entry that truly sucked.

JadenKale wrote:Always. But Threadless alum would most likely tell you in far more blunt tone what they thought of an entry that truly sucked.

Remember, at woot you can only vote up. At threadless, you can always vote down.

krankykitty wrote:I could possibly buy that this is about a murder mystery. But I know the context this shirt was designed in.

But this is just gross. NOT PG-13 as PG-13 is usually defined:

"There may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. " (from http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp)

This depiction of violence is both realistic and extreme.

Plus, this is actually one of the worst looking designs I have seen in the fog yet. Maybe I can't appreciate the halftones because I'm not a designer, but this looks like one of those cheapo 1980s shirts they sell to tourists on the beach.

Disappointing this is in the fog.

I have a strange feeling that you have no idea what you are talking about. Why is that? Oh yeah, because you said that this looks REALISTIC. Tell that to a war veteran. Do you really think that this shirt is worse than Princess Mononoke, The Dark Knight, X-men 2, The Lost World or The Lord of the Rings? And how about the old PG (should be 13) Indiana Jones? What you quoted said that the violence can be EXTREME provided it is NOT realistic, and no one in their right mind would categorize this as realistic. It is stylized.

Re: Murder Mystery

Are we seeing the same shirt? where is this question mark... pathetic

lmao will it really matter that much how much mystery is on the shirt when all you simple have to do is buy it and wear it.

woot has to choose whether to piss off its mass purchasers (albeit a very whiny group) or appeal to the more simple buyers.

Josephus wrote:
...

Their point is valid, though. If a jpg makes lines look thinner, and dots look smaller, then jpgs wouldn't look like the original at all, they would be very distorted, and look like it. Overall, the less transparent part of the blurry line has got to look like the width of the original line- if it doesn't, then it wouldn't fool your eye into thinking it looks like a photo. The higher resolution part of his shirt image has an inherently sharper image to look at, and by making the overall design the size of a 16x20 design, and then taking the high resolution area and shrinking it back down to size, it retains more sharpness than the overall design. This portion is what you are looking at in the image I uploaded, and it is this portion that shows pretty clearly that the lines are narrower than the 1 point line I added, and the dots are smaller in diameter as well. Further, there are lots of areas where it looks like a gradient would be needed to produce the colors seen. I can't come up with a way to have spot colors on a shirt that will look like the image that the designer is showing us. It is simply WRONG to submit an image like this when you know that it won't be printed like this.

...

The point that the jpg might be misleading or different from the vector file is NOT valid. The jpg is made to look like the vector file when viewed at 100% zoom. The second you zoom in or out on it, it changes the way it looks. So the jpgs you see on the website DO look like the vector file - the one you drew cyan lines on looks different because you made it a different scale. By your logic, I could take any entry, zoom way in on its composition jpg, and claim that there are more than a dozen colors used, because that's what I'd see.

RukasuFox wrote:I have a strange feeling that you have no idea what you are talking about. Why is that? Oh yeah, because you said that this looks REALISTIC. Tell that to a war veteran. Do you really think that this shirt is worse than Princess Mononoke, The Dark Knight, X-men 2, The Lost World or The Lord of the Rings? And how about the old PG (should be 13) Indiana Jones? What you quoted said that the violence can be EXTREME provided it is NOT realistic, and no one in their right mind would categorize this as realistic. It is stylized.

while the picture itself overall is stylized, the depiction of graphic violence is NOT stylized, it is realistic. What's stylized is the two realistic figures rising out of a book, and the stylized question mark made out of the steam-fog rising all around them. You ought to know the difference between a piece of a design and the overall design.
-and where's our closeup of the gradients shown in the shirt-comp, and the smaller than 1 point elements? is boyfriend going to show us that stuff, or not? and why not, if not? It sure looks like gradients, it sure looks like a piece of lazy shirt-comp design, with the shirt comp not showing us the actual image of what the print file would look like.

Re: Murder Mystery

I love the idea. Not sure how it will play out for a shirt, but a wallpaper for sure!

fablefire wrote:I do. I see an open book (could be translated as an open case) about a murder. Silhouettes evoke a mystery because we know someone killed the victim, but we can't see their face. IMO, it's a depiction of a murder mystery book.

I can't disagree with you more. The open book could easily also say that its a romance novel and this is the end where a jilted lover kills the one that rejected her.

There is no mystery presented here, if you want to see a mystery book presented well, then look at Gentry's entry this week. This entry just shows a girl murdering a guy in a graphic fashion on top of a book. Nothing more, nothing less. Where's the mystery? In the silhouettes you say? I think that is very reaching to call this a mystery since the entirety of the design is the event that you are trying to solve. Even if this is the end of the mystery showing what happened, then it really isn't a mystery anymore now is it?

RukasuFox wrote:Do you really think that this shirt is worse than Princess Mononoke, The Dark Knight, X-men 2, The Lost World or The Lord of the Rings? And how about the old PG (should be 13) Indiana Jones?

What you quoted said that the violence can be EXTREME provided it is NOT realistic, and no one in their right mind would categorize this as realistic. It is stylized.

Bottom line, you don't see blood and guts coming out of gunshot wounds in a PG-13 film. That makes it an R rated film.

LOTR has Fantasy Violence where people get stabbed and hit with arrows, and the occasional beheading, but it doesn't show the graphic nature of it. They don't even show the wounds half the time.

Dark Knight, even in in the worst parts, doesn't show anything. Look at the beginning scene. 5 people get shot/killed, but no blood or anything is shown, just that someone is shooting them is enough to imply that they are dead. Even in the two face creation scene they don't show anything that gory.

Indiana Jones, when he shot someone, they just fell over. The more graphic things that they had were the famous airplane propeller scene, the Ark opening scene, the heart ripping scene, and the one guy aging and turning to dust scene at the end of Last Crusade. Even in the propeller scene they didn't show anything this nature, I want to say they might have had some blood splash on the cockpit to show that they guy was caught in the propeller, IIRC.

Violence is acceptable at PG and PG-13 levels, but it can't be graphic violence, ie, can't have brain matter and blood splattered everywhere like a Quentin Tarantino film. Even if its stylized.

BOOM HEADSHOT

camoor wrote:BOOM HEADSHOT

Which is the main reason I won't buy this when (not "if" - I think the woot staff have already made their blind-eye clear on this point) it prints. I recall being shocked and bristling when I first started reading derby threads and saw how people slammed a certain couple for their entries - but now I really do understand how that disgust came about.

I wish this piece of offal would fall out of the fog and make room for something decent that an artist spent time to do their best on. Again, I feel like it was a good idea wasted on a rushed and incompetent design.

AdderXYU wrote:Remember, at woot you can only vote up. At threadless, you can always vote down.

If I could count the times when I've desperately wanted a vote down option...

cobolisdead wrote:Violence is acceptable at PG and PG-13 levels, but it can't be graphic violence, ie, can't have brain matter and blood splattered everywhere like a Quentin Tarantino film. Even if its stylized.

That is why Princess Mononoke is important. You see people's limbs and heads getting shot off, as well as blood. This would never be allowed in a PG-13 like The Dark Knight or LotR except for the fact that it is more stylized than those due to the cartoon style. If the people in this shirt were NOT silhouetted then I would agree that this crosses the line.

I also think it is safe to assume that this one is not getting rejected for the content a this point...

I think it is in poor taste on many levels. And I feel like I've seen these halftones before...

spanishmel wrote:I think it is in poor taste on many levels. And I feel like I've seen these halftones before...

It is and you have.

godslinger wrote:Here's one: Rejected because: A little too gruesome thanks

"Rejected because: A little too gruesome thanks." And this one isn't?!

I would really like to know, SHIRT WOOT STAFF, why this has not been rejected for the same reason. I am honestly and maturely asking.

kylemittskus wrote:"Rejected because: A little too gruesome thanks." And this one isn't?!

I would really like to know, SHIRT WOOT STAFF, why this has not been rejected for the same reason. I am honestly and maturely asking.

I'll answer for myself. Are you old enough to remember How Mortal Kombat for the Super Nintendo had white "sweat" while the Sega Genesis version had red blood?

Have you ever seen a James Bond movie? During the opening song the women are essentially naked, but it's PG-13 because they're in silhouette. In some of the songs you can actually see nipples when they turn in the light.

So this shirt changed the color of the blood and removed detail by silhouetting the murder. That's why I think it's PG-13.

midflinx wrote:I'll answer for myself. Are you old enough to remember How Mortal Kombat for the Super Nintendo had white "sweat" while the Sega Genesis version had red blood?

Have you ever seen a James Bond movie? During the opening song the women are essentially naked, but it's PG-13 because they're in silhouette. In some of the songs you can actually see nipples when they turn in the light.

So this shirt changed the color of the blood and removed detail by silhouetting the murder. That's why I think it's PG-13.

better question... aren't people old enough to remember Sega also old enough to be more mature than wanting something so poorly done and "shocking". Seriously, wanting a shirt like this is what you do when you're 16, and think My Chemical Romance has all the answers to life. By the age that would remember Sega, you've either reined your angst in to something more refined and realized rebellion of that nature just makes you as much a tool as the preps you wrote livejournal poems about, or else you became a juggalo.

AdderXYU wrote:(snip)

wanting a shirt like this is what you do when you're 16

(snip)

It may be what you would have wanted when you were 16, but sadly, you're basing your argument on the assumption that most wooters who vote in these derbies are people with a mature, well-established sense of aesthetics. Sadly, I think there's been plenty of evidence to the contrary.

AdderXYU wrote:better question... aren't people old enough to remember Sega also old enough to be more mature than wanting something so poorly done and "shocking". Seriously, wanting a shirt like this is what you do when you're 16, and think My Chemical Romance has all the answers to life. By the age that would remember Sega, you've either reined your angst in to something more refined and realized rebellion of that nature just makes you as much a tool as the preps you wrote livejournal poems about, or else you became a juggalo.

Or you break out of AdderXYU's false dichotomy and don't want the shirt because it's shocking, but for other aesthetic reasons. What does it say about you that you've posted dozens of times about this shirt? You must really think you're going to convince some people it should be rejected and the art is badly done.

I happen to like the grid-effect of the halftones. How it will print is another question. What other "problems" with the halftones are there?

Are you interested in explaining why my examples with Mortal Kombat and James Bond aren't applicable to this shirt? Or should I just wait for kylemittskus to reply?

Re: Murder Mystery

Several comments have mentioned that the dots on this design won't look good on a t-shirt. Does anyone have a picture of an actual shirt that uses this same effect? I'd like to see it for myself to determine whether this technique is just something I like on the computer screen or not.

midflinx wrote:I'll answer for myself. Are you old enough to remember How Mortal Kombat for the Super Nintendo had white "sweat" while the Sega Genesis version had red blood?

Have you ever seen a James Bond movie? During the opening song the women are essentially naked, but it's PG-13 because they're in silhouette. In some of the songs you can actually see nipples when they turn in the light.

So this shirt changed the color of the blood and removed detail by silhouetting the murder. That's why I think it's PG-13.

The video game argument I don't think applies because video games are not rated based on the same rating scale woot follows (I don't think). And I think that Sega and Super NES were pre-ratings? What are the new Mortal Kombat games rated? My guess is M for "Mature" which I would equate to an R rating.

The silhouette argument makes a lot more sense, and I can see your point, although the only Bond film I've seen was Casino Royal.

kylemittskus wrote:The video game argument I don't think applies because video games are not rated based on the same rating scale woot follows (I don't think). And I think that Sega and Super NES were pre-ratings? What are the new Mortal Kombat games rated? My guess is M for "Mature" which I would equate to an R rating.

The silhouette argument makes a lot more sense, and I can see your point, although the only Bond film I've seen was Casino Royal.

It was during the SNES and Genesis console generation that the ratings came out because of games like Mortal Kombat. Nintendo required the SNES version have slightly toned down violence and white "sweat" instead of red blood. Since the new games are intentionally violent and gory, they're more like examples of the rejected Osama shirt with red blood running down the face.

While the ratings for video games aren't exactly the same as the MPAA's, since most everyone is debating this shirt in terms of whether it is PG-13, it seems a reasonable comparison. Certainly the James Bond silhouette example is. Even if you haven't seen the other movies.

midflinx wrote:Certainly the James Bond silhouette example is. Even if you haven't seen the other movies.

And I conceded that. I can easily see that point.

midflinx wrote:Or you break out of AdderXYU's false dichotomy and don't want the shirt because it's shocking, but for other aesthetic reasons. What does it say about you that you've posted dozens of times about this shirt? You must really think you're going to convince some people it should be rejected and the art is badly done.

I happen to like the grid-effect of the halftones. How it will print is another question. What other "problems" with the halftones are there?

Are you interested in explaining why my examples with Mortal Kombat and James Bond aren't applicable to this shirt? Or should I just wait for kylemittskus to reply?

they aren't applicable to this shirt, first of all, because they are based on ratings given by video game and movie ratings groups, not woot derbies. As woot derbies go, this is too much. There have been VERY rare instances of entries or prints with violent or sexual imagery allowed around here, so one must presume this being allowed is an EXCEPTION to an otherwise VERY CONSISTENT RULE. As actually printed shirts go, the strongest example is the recent "shear bad luck", which while being gruesome is also a humor shirt. This piece is serious, and the violence is done in a more serious way. The two pieces are different largely due to the obvious tone differences. And finally, woot's PG-13, again, is closer to a PG or G. You can cite movies until you are blue in the face, it doesn't change that woots rating system is different and incredibly conservative for most designers. If this makes it to print, it will likely be the first of its kind ever to do so via the derby. It's already in VERY slim company as far as designs with a mature enough topic that don't get rejected.

I use "mature" as a rating word only. I don't think most "mature" items have even a shred of maturity in them.

I don't think I'm going to convince anyone the art is badly done. It is so badly done that if you can't see it immediately on opening, then you simply will never understand how bad it is. I would argue such a person shouldn't be allowed to vote. The tiny halftones, the deformed silhouettes, the awful color choices in the "smoke" area, the position and shape of the design, the hackneyed and uninspiring content... if you can look at these and find something positive, that doesn't reflect poorly on my convincing. It reflects poorly on you.

As others have pointed out, there are spots where the halftones are too small. But the halftones mainly boil down to color choices a blind man would mock you for. It will look like a smudge of the ugliest proportions, because no one with a feel for palettes would allow it to happen.