Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

This entry is based on Olympus National Park I'll post a larger version later to show the details.

Thanks in advance to everyone who likes the design

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I get it... its in the shape of lungs. ha.

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Like the design, but not sure how good this shirt would look on a person.

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I like it :D

ranusbc wrote:Like the design, but not sure how good this shirt would look on a person.

I think it would creep me out a little.. though I think it's clever and a lovely illustration.

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Even though I generally dislike your designs due to cute animals / bad anatomy / ect. I actually think this is very well done. It is a shame though that it isn't going to work as well for the ladies. Will look great on guys though.

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This looks so familiar like I've seen it in a past derby or on threadless... hmmm maybe I am wrong, RAMYB would never do that... LOL

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Great idea. I think some of the colors are to saturated. You're bound to get the off topic comments on this and I'm honestly not a huge fan of a lot of your work, but this is awesome.

benjaminleebates wrote:This looks so familiar like I've seen it in a past derby or on threadless... hmmm maybe I am wrong, RAMYB would never do that... LOL

You have nothing better to say don't you?

Anyways, Ramyb this designs is well drawn. I like the idea a lot. You will probably get a lot of tree-huggers buying this shirt, but that isn't a bad thing. GMV.

lexaverial wrote:Even though I generally dislike your designs due to cute animals / bad anatomy / etc. I actually think this is very well done. It is a shame though that it isn't going to work as well for the ladies.

Ditto.

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This is a beautiful, clever peice! My only concern...is how it would rest on mah boobs..hahahah. I would be worried about girls with fuller bazooms, and how that would affect the image. But that's really not a big deal at all, and I do like this image a lot. Very nice job!

I had a very similar idea. But then I looked online and found this. Uunfortunately it may be too similar:

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This is my favorite RamyB design in quite a long time, but it's also the one that I feel is the farthest from the theme. This says to me tree, or nature, or any number of things, but this doesn't say National Park to me.

Giacomo9 wrote:I had a very similar idea. But then I looked online and found this. Uunfortunately it may be too similar:

Huh. That is pretty similar in concept. At the same time, Ramy's is still a bit different. Pretty torn on this. Seeing as how Woot can never decide consistently what is and is not too similar, I am betting they'd likely overlook the similarities in this case.

Also, I really can't get over "Nature Boobs".

wootasourous wrote:You have nothing better to say don't you?

Anyways, Ramyb this designs is well drawn. I like the idea a lot. You will probably get a lot of tree-huggers buying this shirt, but that isn't a bad thing. GMV.

I usually have two primary types of responses.
One type is for those with skills and one is for those without. If you haven't much in the way of skills, but you have a cool concept, or are trying really hard, then I will encourage and make suggestions.
The next type is reserved for those that HAVE skills, if I like their work, I will praise and offer criticism if needed/helpful... If they are skilled, but seem to phone it in; then I am a little more harsh.
BTW there are tons of shirts out there that illustrate trees as lungs. Just google it!
If I have an idea, I always try to google a few terms first to make certain that I am not ripping someone off or even skirting their idea.

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GMV!!!!

benjaminleebates wrote:This looks so familiar like I've seen it in a past derby or on threadless... hmmm maybe I am wrong, RAMYB would never do that... LOL

I agree that this does look familiar...can't quite place it...maybe something from the dino derby that was also a shadow-box type design? Though I appreciate the departure from the normal ramy design, not liking the outline at all, I think it would really awkward on a woman.

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Good illustration of how my lungs feel when I go up to Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Parks. The air is sooo fresh and crisp and full of pine scents, it almost hurts to breath!

I love it, as per usual. I think out of my 15 woot shirts, about 5 are Ramyb. Keep up the good work!

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Being of the "fairer sex" I must say that there's not a chance that I would wear this. It's a nice design, and the colors are pleasing, but I'd prefer guys weren't imagining what my lungs look like under that shirt.

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this is awesome! definitely worth my vote, still going to buy it, still going to wear it.

the usual haters will still come out in masses with "blah blah blah hate hate hate whine whine whine i never leave my basement" type of comments but the fact is this is great. good job, gmv.

Makes it clear that you have some real skills Ramyb. I for one appreciate the effort to do a take using some new design styles, whether or not this specific one is a hit.

benjaminleebates wrote:This looks so familiar like I've seen it in a past derby or on threadless... hmmm maybe I am wrong, RAMYB would never do that... LOL

For me it instantly reminded me of a design from fullbleed.org. The liquid Lungs shirt. http://www.dobi.nu/fullbleed/29.htm Although two different directions, very similar in idea.

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Don't really like it, not my style at all, but it's still got my vote ... because it's ramyb ...

TurboGraphx16 wrote:Don't really like it, not my style at all, but it's still got my vote ... because it's ramyb ...

So you click. "I'd Buy It" and you Wouldn't actually buy it? you sir are what I would classify as FAIL... and why all of us new designers can't get a leg up on the older designers.

sorry ramyb... love the shirt btw lolz

TurboGraphx16 wrote:Don't really like it, not my style at all, but it's still got my vote ... because it's ramyb ...

Not to get all Adder on this, but the link says "I'd Want One" not "I Like This Artist".

Oh, no - this doesn't look anything like this one:

groosalugg wrote:

Oh, no - this doesn't look anything like this one:

...because they both have trees?

I really like this, GMV

TurboGraphx16 wrote:Don't really like it, not my style at all, but it's still got my vote ... because it's ramyb ...

What is wrong with you!?!?


Sweet lookin' background. Good job!

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I'm glad to see you finally branching out instead of completely relying on the shiny swirlie crutch you've been using the last several derbies.

It's unfortunate you went with the lung effect. I don't really like it that much as it looks awkward on the shirt. It should be grounds for rejection due to similar shirts existing but you dodged that on listen to your conscience so this will probably fly too.

If you left the tree where it was and sinply expanded the design area to an oval I think it would look much better and also alleviate any chance of rejection.

groosalugg wrote:
Oh, no - this doesn't look anything like this one:

Firstly...Ramy, I think this is a nice change(coincidentally a 'breath of fresh air'?). It's nice to see you not rely on 'cute' to get you through. The colors are very *you* (contrasty) but different as well somehow. The similar shirt in question looks really close, but hopefully the detail/subject matter will make the difference.

Anyway, in response to that quote up there...a lot of shirts use negative space(specifically, trees) to make up the rest of their image. Are you going to say they are like this one too? I just don't see how several smooth jungle trees(complete with animals) is the same as a very branch-y tree implying lungs. :\

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It reminds me of The Devil's in the Details, but less ominous. For the record, I'm not saying is similar enough to cause rejection, I'm just saying that's what it reminded me of.

It's pretty, and I like the blue on a brown shirt, but I have to say that the lung placement might be a deal-breaker as far as me wearing it.

TurboGraphx16 wrote:Don't really like it, not my style at all, but it's still got my vote ... because it's ramyb ...

^^: This is my problem with any voting system.. It's like American Idol. The system seems...sort of broken, due to activity like this. -sigh Oh well, it's still fun to participate. However, maybe just submitting directly to Woot is a better option for most of us rather than go up against an internet army in a competition. -walks away broken

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i hate this less than usual.

it has some nice colors, but it looks a bit big for lungs and the green on the bottom is bothering me a little.

thats my first impression, ill keep looking at it to see if my opinion changes

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Love it! Nice design! Mountains, beautiful blue sky & the bird is just perfect! I would have no problem wearing it! Hey covered up - not hang'n out, no bad words or suggestions – see that a lot here in Florida. This cool T-shirt design is not a big deal! Men imagining? Well they do that no matter what – anyway.

mrwednesday wrote:I'm glad to see you finally branching out instead of completely relying on the shiny swirlie crutch you've been using the last several derbies.

It's unfortunate you went with the lung effect. I don't really like it that much as it looks awkward on the shirt. It should be grounds for rejection due to similar shirts existing but you dodged that on listen to your conscience so this will probably fly too.

If you left the tree where it was and sinply expanded the design area to an oval I think it would look much better and also alleviate any chance of rejection.

well i like the lungs, as do a lot of people here. go pick on someone else.

HalfWheat wrote:It reminds me of The Devil's in the Details, but less ominous. For the record, I'm not saying is similar enough to cause rejection, I'm just saying that's what it reminded me of.

It's pretty, and I like the blue on a brown shirt, but I have to say that the lung placement might be a deal-breaker as far as me wearing it.

where else should lungs be placed? on the back of the shirt like the wings of a fly? back placements don't do well at woot.

someday a front that relates to the back like a punchline would be nice, probably not gonna happen though.

Littletygerkitty wrote:Being of the "fairer sex" I must say that there's not a chance that I would wear this. It's a nice design, and the colors are pleasing, but I'd prefer guys weren't imagining what my lungs look like under that shirt.

Yes, unfortunately I agree. I totally love the shirt however I'm pretty sure most females will not be able to wear this. I wish it were lower on the shirt, I'm not sure if that would solve the problem though without taking away the concept.
Either way, good work! If I were a guy I'd totally buy.

jabberjaws13 wrote:where else should lungs be placed? on the back of the shirt like the wings of a fly? back placements don't do well at woot.

someday a front that relates to the back like a punchline would be nice, probably not gonna happen though.

Gee, defensive much? I didn't say it should be changed, I just said that it might be a deal-breaker for me, personally. Not the whole universe, just my personal anatomy and lifestyle. And I said "might." Maybe I could pull it off, maybe not. Haven't made that decision yet. Something to think about.

jabberjaws13 wrote:well i like the lungs, as do a lot of people here. go pick on someone else.

For serious, take a deep breath and calm down a little bit. I know you feel it's sinful to question or criticize the all knowing ever designing ramy, but two things:

1. The lung effect puts this is danger of rejection, which for any artist but ramy would be a near certainty given the substantial similarity to the shirts already posted.

2. As many females have already stated, this is just not a shirt that pairs well with boobies especially for our lovely full figured ladies.

A slight shift away from the lung effect alleviates both concerns. I'm not sure why you'd be against a ramy shirt getting wider appeal?

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It is pretty similar to that other one the other folks are talking about... still, I like this design- it's very well done. [ducks]

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Aren't lungs the same size? The right (my right) lung is longer and the left one is fatter. It throws the symmetry of the shirt. And if it is a lung-like image that are supposed to be on the wearer, those are some LARGE lungs.

I also think it is very similar to the previously posted shirt; less similar to Devil in Details.

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First thing I thought of when I saw this was I've seen this somewhere before. That's all I'm going to say.

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Hmmm, not sure I'm seeing the theme on this one- what's the National Park connection? Just that there's a tree?

TurboGraphx16 wrote:Don't really like it, not my style at all, but it's still got my vote ... because it's ramyb ...

The voting button says "I'd Want One" for a reason. You click it because YOU'D WANT ONE... not because you think the artist is a cool dude.

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Just Google "Tree Lungs" and you will see SEVERAL versions of this. "Similar designs already exist" does not apply to everyone here, but if all rules applied to everyone this would be rejected.

lexaverial wrote:Huh. That is pretty similar in concept. At the same time, Ramy's is still a bit different. Pretty torn on this. Seeing as how Woot can never decide consistently what is and is not too similar, I am betting they'd likely overlook the similarities in this case.

Also, I really can't get over "Nature Boobs".

This was my first question. How is this in the top rankings when it just looks like an unorginal design. pretty, but not first.

hashpling wrote:This was my first question. How is this in the top rankings when it just looks like an unorginal design. pretty, but not first.

see: artist name (above)

kylemittskus wrote:Aren't lungs the same size? The right (my right) lung is longer and the left one is fatter. It throws the symmetry of the shirt. And if it is a lung-like image that are supposed to be on the wearer, those are some LARGE lungs.

I also think it is very similar to the previously posted shirt; less similar to Devil in Details.

Actually, the left lung has lobes, the right doesn't. This is because the heart kind of fits in between the right and left lungs, and sort of points off to the left a little bit, and I suspect that because the heart beats continuously, it stimulates the left side to form into a couple of pieces. So, the left lung actually IS a little bit smaller in real life. I haven't looked at the large view yet, but the lungs really are very large in real life. The chest wall isn't that thick, and the lungs press right up against it, as if there's a vacuum between them, causing the lungs to be expanded- Oh, yeah, there is! The lungs fill up all of the chest cavity excepting the heart.

edit: So, now that I've looked at it, the actual lungs would be a bit bigger than shown on the shirt. The woot print limitation keeps them from completely filling the shirt, sadly.

Andy47240 wrote:Just Google "Tree Lungs" and you will see SEVERAL versions of this. "Similar designs already exist" does not apply to everyone here, but if all rules applied to everyone this would be rejected.

This. One of the better examples of an existing "similar" shirt has already been posted. Personally, I think that woot needs to have some guidelines about what dictates a shirt being too similar to something that exists already. Is it simply the idea? Is it the overall design?

In the "Blues" derby my shirt:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=35123

got rejected because it was too "similar" to this one:

http://www.threadless.com/product/1380/Bunyan_s_Blues

If this one doesn't get rejected than as far as I am concerned, woot's bias towards some designers will be confirmed.

atshephe wrote:
In the "Blues" derby my shirt:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=35123

got rejected because it was too "similar" to this one:

http://www.threadless.com/product/1380/Bunyan_s_Blues

If this one doesn't get rejected than as far as I am concerned, woot's bias towards some designers will be confirmed.

I remember that. Pretty stupid to reject yours on that derby.

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I love this! I want one.

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Hey, I don't have anything against this shirt at all, it looks kinda cool to me. But because I'm a woman with a rack, this will NOT look like lungs on my chest, but like some sort of demented bra. Sorry, can't vote on this one. :c

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I like how it looks like around the trees are lungs.

Andy47240 wrote:Just Google "Tree Lungs" and you will see SEVERAL versions of this. "Similar designs already exist" does not apply to everyone here, but if all rules applied to everyone this would be rejected.

Dang, I just did this. And you're right--several designs with the same concept already exist. Not the exact same execution, but then the rejectionator often rejects for concept (the dandelion rejections come to mind).

It's too bad--I liked this one. And, being unfamiliar with the meme, I thought it was pretty original. Maybe a resub with more of an oval, like some have suggested above, is in order?

Oh, and I couldn't let this post end without thanking you, ramyb, for "branching" out.

/runs away

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I really hope this doesn't get rejected. This and the Sequoia tree designs are my favorite in this derby.

Josephus wrote:Actually, the left lung has lobes, the right doesn't. This is because the heart kind of fits in between the right and left lungs, and sort of points off to the left a little bit, and I suspect that because the heart beats continuously, it stimulates the left side to form into a couple of pieces. So, the left lung actually IS a little bit smaller in real life. I haven't looked at the large view yet, but the lungs really are very large in real life. The chest wall isn't that thick, and the lungs press right up against it, as if there's a vacuum between them, causing the lungs to be expanded- Oh, yeah, there is! The lungs fill up all of the chest cavity excepting the heart.

edit: So, now that I've looked at it, the actual lungs would be a bit bigger than shown on the shirt. The woot print limitation keeps them from completely filling the shirt, sadly.

if you're nitpicking, sirs, the left lung has 2 lobes, while the right lung has 3 lobes. this is because the left lung has the heart jutting into it, making a cardiac notch. there's a bootleg 3rd lobe like appendage on the left lobe though... I don't think the point of the shirt is to make it as lung-like as possible... I don't think any of the shirts out there really catch what lungs look like. They're MUCH smaller than you guys would think (varies from person to person), and most of the lung is actually on the back part of the body, so to get a realistic shape of the lung you'd have to do a wraparound shirt, which might be really cool :D too bad woot can't do that.

As far as the design... Pretty cool, just nothing that I would wear personally.

I personally wouldn't wear this, but it's a decent design. Although it's similar to the general design of the roman candle shirt posted above, it has enough differences to not be a complete ripoff

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If the original Muffineer shirt last week was rejected for being less similar to an existing design, this one should also be rejected. But we all know how Woot does things, so who knows.

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Very nice... I dig it. Got my vote!


____________________________________________

Giacomo9 wrote:I had a very similar idea. But then I looked online and found this. Uunfortunately it may be too similar:

I'm just re-drawing attention to this post which shows a shirt of the exact same style and idea; the only different thing is the season. This needs to be rejected.

atshephe wrote:This. One of the better examples of an existing "similar" shirt has already been posted. Personally, I think that woot needs to have some guidelines about what dictates a shirt being too similar to something that exists already. Is it simply the idea? Is it the overall design?

In the "Blues" derby my shirt:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=35123

got rejected because it was too "similar" to this one:

http://www.threadless.com/product/1380/Bunyan_s_Blues

If this one doesn't get rejected than as far as I am concerned, woot's bias towards some designers will be confirmed.

Seriously? If that was rejected for "too similar" than this needs to be rejected for "too similar". But I see the first round of rejections are in already.

this is a good departure from your normal cute stuff, it's rather clever and i dig it.

spazmojack wrote:this is a good departure from your normal cute stuff, it's rather clever and i dig it.

A normal departure would be an original shirt which this is not. (Scroll up 5 or 6 posts.)

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Not hopping on the anti-Ramyb bandwagon with this. This is a good shirt, a good design, and since I am not female, I would wear it.

Although, I can't wait to see what the flamers hash out this time.

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All possible similarities aside, I love back lit designs and I'm delighted to see something different from you.

striker138 wrote:If the original Muffineer shirt last week was rejected for being less similar to an existing design, this one should also be rejected. But we all know how Woot does things, so who knows.

Muffineer was rejected for being too close to a trademarked logo - not too similar to existing design. much stricter criteria.

thurdl01 wrote:Seriously? If that was rejected for "too similar" than this needs to be rejected for "too similar". But I see the first round of rejections are in already.

one "bad" rejection should not demand another "bad" rejection, unless you are just fishing for excuses to reject this because of your dislike of the artist.

jerroul wrote:one "bad" rejection should not demand another "bad" rejection, unless you are just fishing for excuses to reject this because of your dislike of the artist.

You don't think this shirt is similar or almost identical to the shirt posted above?

kylemittskus wrote:You don't think this shirt is similar or almost identical to the shirt posted above?

I see a similar base concept, but different artistry, different intent/treatment, and to me, at least, a totally different "feel". As I said above, on Friday, my first reaction to this shirt is that it is a visualization of how my lungs feel when I first wake up in the morning camping up in the redwoods of Sequoia or Kings Canyon National Parks.
The other shirt, while also having "lungs" as its starting place, is not saying that to me, in my opinion. It is rather a comment on trees as the breathing mechanism of Earth, ie lungs. I confess I do not understand the Roman Candle reference in the other shirt's title, so maybe I am missing something that those who are using it as proof of "unoriginality" can see.

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great job on not using unnecessary decorative halftones and glow-y color schemes as a way of pandering to the lowest common demoninator to ensure that you get another paycheck.

however i think this should be rejected based on similarities to existing shirts.

lets see how it plays out!

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I really like it. I love the lungs idea.

jerroul wrote:I see a similar base concept, but different artistry,

I agree that this shirt is actually better than the other one. That doesn't change the fact that it is based on the exact same idea.

I don't get the text on the other shirt either, but what I do get is that they are basically the same shirt. One may be better or have a different "feel" but they are really the same shirt.

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As Ramy illustrations go, this one is definitely a cut above his usual ones. Props for that. Unfortunately, the design is far from original. Lung shirts are old hat, and there are specifically tree lung shirts out there as well which ought to merit rejection.

Likewise, I have the same issue with this one as tgentry's: I expect more from a "national park" theme than trees with no other context in their setting. These entries could both have been entered into the flora or tree derbies without any changes.

jmmbell1987 wrote: Likewise, I have the same issue with this one as tgentry's: I expect more from a "national park" theme than trees with no other context in their setting. These entries could both have been entered into the flora or tree derbies without any changes.

I thought the same thing although... TGentry's shirt is a specific type of tree: a redwood which is a specific national park in Norther California. I'm still on the fence though about it.

This one: no fence; no question.

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I'm a little shocked by this rejection though it's completely warranted. It's unfortunate they won't reject the shiny garbage as well. Designs like this are much more what I'd hope to see out of ramy.

Littletygerkitty wrote:Being of the "fairer sex" I must say that there's not a chance that I would wear this. It's a nice design, and the colors are pleasing, but I'd prefer guys weren't imagining what my lungs look like under that shirt.

Honestly I don't own a single Woot shirt that doesn't make people stare at my chest. If I thought "someone might look at my hooters" every time I picked up a shirt, I'd never buy any-especially from Woot.

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Nice consistency woot. Seriously.

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Wow, that's super upsetting.. :|

jmmbell1987 wrote:

Likewise, I have the same issue with this one as tgentry's: I expect more from a "national park" theme than trees with no other context in their setting. These entries could both have been entered into the flora or tree derbies without any changes.

As posted in my own thread, my design is very park specific, with details that appear only in that park, with a species of tree that appears naturally in one area in the entire world. Mine could only be one place in the world, Sequoia National Park.

kylemittskus wrote:Nice consistency woot. Seriously.

is that sarcasm?

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Damn, I LOVED this shirt! Since it was rejected here, but was in the fog and so obviously VERY sought after, please consider having it printed elsewhere! And PM me so I can buy it!

jerroul wrote:I see a similar base concept, but different artistry, different intent/treatment, and to me, at least, a totally different "feel". As I said above, on Friday, my first reaction to this shirt is that it is a visualization of how my lungs feel when I first wake up in the morning camping up in the redwoods of Sequoia or Kings Canyon National Parks.
The other shirt, while also having "lungs" as its starting place, is not saying that to me, in my opinion. It is rather a comment on trees as the breathing mechanism of Earth, ie lungs. I confess I do not understand the Roman Candle reference in the other shirt's title, so maybe I am missing something that those who are using it as proof of "unoriginality" can see.

Just as an FYI, Roman Candle is a band and I believe the shirt is for the CD "Oh Tall Tree in the Air".

Edited: Reread and realized I misinterpreted what you were saying.

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So why don't the rejected shirts fall to the bottom anymore?

It's weird that this is still in the fog even though it's rejected. Woot really needs to put it back to the old way.

Anyway, this was a nice departure for you Ramy. Hope to see more like this in the future.

billratio wrote:is that sarcasm?

No. I am very glad that they rejected this shirt, not because I didn't like it (although I didn't) but because it deserved to get rejected. However, I give woot only a small amount of credit since they really couldn't ignore that other shirt.

tgentry wrote:As posted in my own thread, my design is very park specific, with details that appear only in that park, with a species of tree that appears naturally in one area in the entire world. Mine could only be one place in the world, Sequoia National Park.

Interesting. In that case, I retract what I said, including on your shirt's thread.

reesmaxwell wrote:Damn, I LOVED this shirt! Since it was rejected here, but was in the fog and so obviously VERY sought after, please consider having it printed elsewhere! And PM me so I can buy it!

It was rejected for being like many, many other shirts. I think other sites might have the same issue.

tgentry wrote:As posted in my own thread, my design is very park specific, with details that appear only in that park, with a species of tree that appears naturally in one area in the entire world. Mine could only be one place in the world, Sequoia National Park.

Actually, they have some of those trees in London. They've gotten pretty big by now, since they were planted there many, many years ago.

And I had a sequoia growing in my back yard in Tennessee in 1994. This was in a ranch house in Murphreesboro Tennessee. I hardly think that they were the first to grow Sequoias, and certainly it has been long enough since they were discovered that they are growing in a variety of places all over the world by now, and getting to be pretty big. As big as the one you drew? doubtful, (please just ignore the rest of this ill-informed drivel: but I have to say that the idea that your design is legit because the trees only grow naturally in northern California is like saying that Pandas don't bring to mind the San Diego Zoo in California or the National Zoo in Wash DC, because they only live in nature in China. It's really a pretty thin argument you have, as far as I can see.)

edit: Actually, my argument is the thin one. Shamefacedly, I have to concede that the way he has constructed the design makes it certainly quite well on target, on theme, certainly within woot's guidelines for this contest, most certainly not a game reference, with no National Park named, having nothing to do with Mario brothers or any actual video games, or specifically naming National Parks, quite certainly on theme and fitting the description also, and really nicely drawn to boot. whew!

Josephus wrote:Actually, they have some of those trees in London. They've gotten pretty big by now, since they were planted there many, many years ago.

And I had a sequoia growing in my back yard in Tennessee in 1994. This was in a ranch house in Murphreesboro Tennessee. I hardly think that they were the first to grow Sequoias, and certainly it has been long enough since they were discovered that they are growing in a variety of places all over the world by now, and getting to be pretty big. As big as the one you drew? doubtful, but I have to say that the idea that your design is legit because the trees only grow naturally in northern California is like saying that Pandas don't bring to mind the San Diego Zoo in California or the National Zoo in Wash DC, because they only live in nature in China. It's really a pretty thin argument you have, as far as I can see.

Hence the added details specific to the park. (and note I said occurring naturally). Sorry Joe, again, this could only be at Sequoia National Park. Like you I searched for info on the Sequoia and I found out that they have been planted elsewhere. But A) this is a forest of them, and B) these are specific trees found in that park. It's not thin at all, in fact it's one of the most specific references to a park in the entire derby. While I think there's a lot of entries that have absolutely zilch to do with National Parks, this is not one of them.

amscray wrote:Honestly I don't own a single Woot shirt that doesn't make people stare at my chest. If I thought "someone might look at my hooters" every time I picked up a shirt, I'd never buy any-especially from Woot.

Just as a point of clarification, for me the issue is not "Someone might look at my boobies." Its more about the design being distorted enough to lose the impact of the graphics. I wear my tees fitted and I sport a full D cup - a lot of that illustration is going to end up curving around my boobs. I don't like constantly tugging my shirt down just so the whole design can be seen. Still, most designs work; this one wouldn't.

tgentry wrote:Hence the added details specific to the park. (and note I said occurring naturally). Sorry Joe, again, this could only be at Sequoia National Park. Like you I searched for info on the Sequoia and I found out that they have been planted elsewhere. But A) this is a forest of them, and B) these are specific trees found in that park. It's not thin at all, in fact it's one of the most specific references to a park in the entire derby. While I think there's a lot of entries that have absolutely zilch to do with National Parks, this is not one of them.

I have to agree with you. I was certainly wrong about it- I shamefacedly concede the point and will add an edit to my comment in a minute. I must confess that I didn't look anything up- I read a story long ago about the importation of sequoias to London, and the difficulty they had in keeping them alive at first- I think they ended up building charcoal ovens that they buried underground below the trees so that they could keep the ground warm enough in the winter. This would have been at that big Conservatory- must have been while Queen Victoria was alive. It might have even been fiction, now that I think about it.

PerpetualKid wrote:Just as a point of clarification, for me the issue is not "Someone might look at my boobies." Its more about the design being distorted enough to lose the impact of the graphics. I wear my tees fitted and I sport a full D cup - a lot of that illustration is going to end up curving around my boobs. I don't like constantly tugging my shirt down just so the whole design can be seen. Still, most designs work; this one wouldn't.

I'm not trying to hide my assets, and it would be difficult to do in a tee shirt considering that they're three-dimensional objects. Having some or all of a design on the chest area isn't a problem for me at all. But on the other hand, I don't need to shine two spotlights on them to get them noticed. When there are two distinct objects sitting right there, that's pretty much what you've got. I think it just looks silly.

This design might have been okay, but it's hard to say without seeing it printed on a women's shirt.

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

Props to woot for the deserved rejection. Ramy, I'm sorry your idea was one that's been done before--hope you can come up with something else that equals the artistry of this one (it's leaps and bounds above what you've been submitting lately).

Josephus wrote:I have to agree with you. I was certainly wrong about it- I shamefacedly concede the point and will add an edit to my comment in a minute. I must confess that I didn't look anything up- I read a story long ago about the importation of sequoias to London, and the difficulty they had in keeping them alive at first- I think they ended up building charcoal ovens that they buried underground below the trees so that they could keep the ground warm enough in the winter. This would have been at that big Conservatory- must have been while Queen Victoria was alive. It might have even been fiction, now that I think about it.

Fiction or not, that's a really cool idea/visual.

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

Is it wrong for me to be happy about ramyb being rejected?

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

While I can't say I'm not disappointed with the rejection, I can definitely see where woot was coming from here and it's just an unfortunate circumstance. I really want to thank everyone who enjoyed and supported this design, and I'm not quite ready to give up on it yet. I'm in the process of reworking and restructuring it in a way that I can still convey the same idea without it being so similar in aesthetics. I'm going to continue working on it tomorrow and hopefully have something to show sometime in the afternoon. I'm not sure if I'll be successful in my attempt, but I hope you guys can let me know what you think when the time comes

Draug wrote:Is it wrong for me to be happy about ramyb being rejected?

Wrong? No.

Petty? Maybe.

Josephus wrote:I have to agree with you. I was certainly wrong about it- I shamefacedly concede the point and will add an edit to my comment in a minute. I must confess that I didn't look anything up- I read a story long ago about the importation of sequoias to London, and the difficulty they had in keeping them alive at first- I think they ended up building charcoal ovens that they buried underground below the trees so that they could keep the ground warm enough in the winter. This would have been at that big Conservatory- must have been while Queen Victoria was alive. It might have even been fiction, now that I think about it.

This is what I found:
attempts to plant the tree in europe have been less successful because of climate challenges.
From:
"Forsøk på å plante treet i Europa har vært lite vellykket på grunn av klimautfordringer."

ramyb wrote:While I can't say I'm not disappointed with the rejection, I can definitely see where woot was coming from here and it's just an unfortunate circumstance. I really want to thank everyone who enjoyed and supported this design, and I'm not quite ready to give up on it yet. I'm in the process of reworking and restructuring it in a way that I can still convey the same idea without it being so similar in aesthetics. I'm going to continue working on it tomorrow and hopefully have something to show sometime in the afternoon. I'm not sure if I'll be successful in my attempt, but I hope you guys can let me know what you think when the time comes

I'm just wondering why, if your a "designer of shirts" that can get rejected for being similar to someone doing before, you didn't spend 5 minutes googling your design to see? Is the money starting to make you delirious?

ramyb wrote:While I can't say I'm not disappointed with the rejection, I can definitely see where woot was coming from here and it's just an unfortunate circumstance. I really want to thank everyone who enjoyed and supported this design, and I'm not quite ready to give up on it yet. I'm in the process of reworking and restructuring it in a way that I can still convey the same idea without it being so similar in aesthetics. I'm going to continue working on it tomorrow and hopefully have something to show sometime in the afternoon. I'm not sure if I'll be successful in my attempt, but I hope you guys can let me know what you think when the time comes

you should make it into a heart instead. then it would for sure be original.

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

As a lover and collector of original shirts, this site was a recent and welcome addition to my internet rounds. That is until I made the mistake of looking at the forum posts where it seems that a lot of folk have nothing better to do than resort to petty bickering and sniping at each other. The perverse pleasure some of you take at seeing someone taken down a peg is depressing and childish. While I will continue to enjoy the efforts of the site, I will be steering well clear of the forums associated with each shirt in the future.

ramyb wrote:I'm in the process of reworking and restructuring it in a way that I can still convey the same idea without it being so similar in aesthetics. I'm going to continue working on it tomorrow and hopefully have something to show sometime in the afternoon.

Good luck to you--hope you come up with something good.

aew.. i really wanted one of these

I hardly ever purchase a woot shirt, maybe 2 or 3 so far. But I love this one. Sad to see it rejected.

ironfresh wrote:As a lover and collector of original shirts, this site was a recent and welcome addition to my internet rounds. That is until I made the mistake of looking at the forum posts where it seems that a lot of folk have nothing better to do than resort to petty bickering and sniping at each other. The perverse pleasure some of you take at seeing someone taken down a peg is depressing and childish. While I will continue to enjoy the efforts of the site, I will be steering well clear of the forums associated with each shirt in the future.

Please do. Given that you're posting this on the thread for a shirt that was rejected for not being original and for an artist who hasn't produced an original design since he came here, it will be for the best. Try not to vote for anything either.

ironfresh wrote:As a lover and collector of original shirts, this site was a recent and welcome addition to my internet rounds. That is until I made the mistake of looking at the forum posts where it seems that a lot of folk have nothing better to do than resort to petty bickering and sniping at each other. The perverse pleasure some of you take at seeing someone taken down a peg is depressing and childish. While I will continue to enjoy the efforts of the site, I will be steering well clear of the forums associated with each shirt in the future.

yeah the forums here at woot can be pretty vicious. Especially when it comes to newer people, some of the veterans tend to pick on them as if having more purchases on a website makes you cool or something. Whatever. Anyways, I loved this shirt, I was going to buy one if given the chance! Too vbad it got rejected

punkrock210 wrote:yeah the forums here at woot can be pretty vicious. Especially when it comes to newer people, some of the veterans tend to pick on them as if having more purchases on a website makes you cool or something.

If it does happen because you have fewer purchases, that's pretty sad. However, I've never had such a problem in my time here. People can be over the top, yes, but never toward me for no reason, and certainly not because I have fewer purchases than most.

Copo wrote:This is what I found:
attempts to plant the tree in europe have been less successful because of climate challenges.
From:
"Forsøk på å plante treet i Europa har vært lite vellykket på grunn av klimautfordringer."

well, not entirely:



The accompanying article describes very successful plantings in Italy, and, indeed, most of western and southern Europe, including much of Great Britain as well as this planting in Scotland.

punkrock210 wrote:yeah the forums here at woot can be pretty vicious. Especially when it comes to newer people, some of the veterans tend to pick on them as if having more purchases on a website makes you cool or something. Whatever. Anyways, I loved this shirt, I was going to buy one if given the chance! Too vbad it got rejected

No, it has nothing to do with new people. It has to do with people who happen to be new that come in without any knowledge of the past or any respect for the community here or the designers that made shirt woot what it is and whine and moan that their favorite designs shouldn't have to follow the rules.

It also comes from new people assuming that after a derby or two that they know everything there is to know about the derbies when they have no concept of the history here. Beyond that, they tend to be incredibly touchy at any insinuation that anything should be more important than their $10 t-shirt.

The rules are in place for a reason and the themes are in place for a reason. It is not just a t-shirt. There is a very substantial reward for printing which can make a huge difference for the artists who put their time and effort into designing and those rewards should never be doled out to the same stagnant designs just because "I like it" or because "I want to spite the people who don't like this."

Many new people realize that the veterans have been here a long time and seen a lot more than they have and so have a better perspective of what's going on. They also put in the effort to understand where people are coming from and have some respect for the process.

The new people who get hate tend to be self centered and expect to have everything handed to them and that any disagreement with their wishes is tantamount to murder. If more of the new people had a little more respect for the artists and designers here there would be infinitely fewer issues.

Personally I like the design. I understand why it was rejected though. I've seen similar designs around the block. I am new to this site also. I must say I hope you were using sarcasm when you mentioned history seeing that this site has been around for only 2 years or so. If you weren't kidding I must tell you that is not history kitty. I have a Art History degree and understand the history and depth of images throughout time. That is what is a matter with this younger generation of kitties is that they think everything started with the internet and cell phones and have no true knowledge of the history of art and culture.

mrwednesday wrote:No, it has nothing to do with new people. It has to do with people who happen to be new that come in without any knowledge of the past or any respect for the community here or the designers that made shirt woot what it is and whine and moan that their favorite designs shouldn't have to follow the rules.

It also comes from new people assuming that after a derby or two that they know everything there is to know about the derbies when they have no concept of the history here. Beyond that, they tend to be incredibly touchy at any insinuation that anything should be more important than their $10 t-shirt.

The rules are in place for a reason and the themes are in place for a reason. It is not just a t-shirt. There is a very substantial reward for printing which can make a huge difference for the artists who put their time and effort into designing and those rewards should never be doled out to the same stagnant designs just because "I like it" or because "I want to spite the people who don't like this."

Many new people realize that the veterans have been here a long time and seen a lot more than they have and so have a better perspective of what's going on. They also put in the effort to understand where people are coming from and have some respect for the process.

The new people who get hate tend to be self centered and expect to have everything handed to them and that any disagreement with their wishes is tantamount to murder. If more of the new people had a little more respect for the artists and designers here there would be infinitely fewer issues.

KingPascal wrote:Personally I like the design. I understand why it was rejected though. I've seen similar designs around the block. I am new to this site also. I must say I hope you were using sarcasm when you mentioned history seeing that this site has been around for only 2 years or so. If you weren't kidding I must tell you that is not history kitty. I have a Art History degree and understand the history and depth of images throughout time. That is what is a matter with this younger generation of kitties is that they think everything started with the internet and cell phones and have no true knowledge of the history of art and culture.

Nothing ever produced on this site has anything to do with art history. The number of designs that could even be called artistic is shockingly low, not to mention nearly every technique employed here is directly a result of the digital age since everything is produced on illustrator/photoshop/etc. But if you think that a lot hasn't happened over the course of 115 derbies you are sorely mistaken. There's a lot more information applicable to this contest than you could ever get with a art degree. Some knowledge on rejections, topicality and past designs goes a long way and is much more important than any formal art training.

New people don't know voting trends. They don't know fad trends (if frightened foods and bird profiles doesn't mean anything to you, you don't know anything about shirt woot). Most voters can't be troubled to look at a designers track record over a few months to judge originality or creativity.

I will say that most people with formal training in any sort of art or graphic design tend to have a giant leg up on the average user but it is in no way necessary.

KingPascal wrote:Personally I like the design. I understand why it was rejected though. I've seen similar designs around the block. I am new to this site also. I must say I hope you were using sarcasm when you mentioned history seeing that this site has been around for only 2 years or so. If you weren't kidding I must tell you that is not history kitty. I have a Art History degree and understand the history and depth of images throughout time. That is what is a matter with this younger generation of kitties is that they think everything started with the internet and cell phones and have no true knowledge of the history of art and culture.

oh god, not this clown again. this guy is so obviously a bad joke by a regular user. just dont respond to him and his ridiculous speech habits

mrwednesday wrote:Nothing ever produced on this site has anything to do with art history.

I disagree.

Sincerely,

Derby #67

;-)

My level of depth and appreciation for art is much deeper than yours kitty. That is what an Art History degree will do for you. A distinct advantage my way on this debate. Your jibby proves that beyond a doubt. The design is well done and I have a great appreciation for nature as I'm sure you do too kitty. I do as always enjoy the vigorous debates we have on what is considered good art vs the rubbish that floods the streets of the main. Take care kitty and I look foward to more art debate in the future!

orzine wrote:oh god, not this clown again. this guy is so obviously a bad joke by a regular user. just dont respond to him and his ridiculous speech habits

KingPascal wrote:My level of depth and appreciation for art is much deeper than yours kitty. That is what an Art History degree will do for you. A distinct advantage my way on this debate. Your jibby proves that beyond a doubt. The design is well done and I have a great appreciation for nature as I'm sure you do too kitty. I do as always enjoy the vigorous debates we have on what is considered good art vs the rubbish that floods the streets of the main. Take care kitty and I look foward to more art debate in the future!

I'm always down for a good joke account.

It's really too bad this isn't one.

mrwednesday wrote:I'm always down for a good joke account.

It's really too bad this isn't one.

It's worth remembering that "art history" doesn't mean anything except "I know history". otherwise it would be called "art"

KingPascal wrote:My level of depth and appreciation for art is much deeper than yours kitty. That is what an Art History degree will do for you. A distinct advantage my way on this debate. Your jibby proves that beyond a doubt. The design is well done and I have a great appreciation for nature as I'm sure you do too kitty. I do as always enjoy the vigorous debates we have on what is considered good art vs the rubbish that floods the streets of the main. Take care kitty and I look foward to more art debate in the future!

Anyone who cites their BA above their actual passion and enthusiasm for the subject as proof of their superiority of knowledge isn't worth listening to on said subject, especially in the arts. In your case, it comes off as petty posturing, especially since you try to use it to end any and all debate.

mrwednesday wrote: I will say that most people with formal training in any sort of art or graphic design tend to have a giant leg up on the average user but it is in no way necessary.

Seriously, ignore him. His idiocy will will drive you to self-injure.

kylemittskus wrote:Seriously, ignore him. He will drive you to self-injure with his idiocy.

Haha, yeah. I forgot he was that one guy. I'm still trying to figure out if "kitty" is a filter or if that's actually what he calls people.

mrwednesday wrote:Haha, yeah. I forgot he was that one guy. I'm still trying to figure out if "kitty" is a filter or if that's actually what he calls people.

Not a filter. Hitting reply shows the actual word(s) used.

kylemittskus wrote:Not a filter. Hitting reply shows the actual word(s) used.

thanks kitten ;)

KaylaJ wrote:thanks kitten ;)

Kitty. Get it right or else!

kylemittskus wrote:Kitty. Get it right or else!

i'm not sure i can use kitty, i don't have an art degree :D

KaylaJ wrote:i'm not sure i can use kitty, i don't have an art degree :D

Bah! Are we sadistic because we are gaining pleasure from exploiting someone's blatant lack of erudition?

KaylaJ wrote:i'm not sure i can use kitty, i don't have an art degree :D

With my absolute, incontestable authority over all things related to the English language (because I'll have an English degree this May), I declare that you can say "kitty". There shall be no debate over this, unless a fellow English major rises to challenge my rule.

jmmbell1987 wrote:With my absolute, incontestable authority over all things related to the English language (because I'll have an English degree this May), I declare that you can say "kitty". There shall be no debate over this, unless a fellow English major rises to challenge my rule.

What is your focus and where are you going to school?

jmmbell1987 wrote:With my absolute, incontestable authority over all things related to the English language (because I'll have an English degree this May), I declare that you can say "kitty". There shall be no debate over this, unless a fellow English major rises to challenge my rule.

"Kitty" is way too crude a form. "Kitten" is much more becoming of a scholar of Kayla's education.

kylemittskus wrote:What is your focus and where are you going to school?

Literature. UMass Dartmouth.

jmmbell1987 wrote:Literature. UMass Dartmouth.

Any genre? Please don't say that British scaffolding.

I ask because I'm a Master's candidate in American Lit.

kylemittskus wrote:Any genre? Please don't say that British scaffolding.

I ask because I'm a Master's candidate in American Lit.

My school's undergrad program is just plain, ol' Literature and Criticism. Of course, I plan on pursuing a master's in British scaffolding. :P

jmmbell1987 wrote:My school's undergrad program is just plain, ol' Literature and Criticism. Of course, I plan on pursuing a master's in British scaffolding. :P

I wouldn't try combining scaffolding and linguistics. They tried that with the Tower of Babel, and we know how that worked out.

Also, I like that there's a small woot english snark-factory in Southern N.E.

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

Sooo, this whole fiasco was sure interesting to read. What happened to the resub?

Jaiyla wrote:Sooo, this whole fiasco was sure interesting to read. What happened to the resub?

He removed it because he doesn't want people who weren't around to know that he had it rejected again. Whenever he has a rejection and can remove it he does. Kind of weak if you ask me.

mrwednesday wrote:He removed it because he doesn't want people who weren't around to know that he had it rejected again. Whenever he has a rejection and can remove it he does. Kind of weak if you ask me.

It was also rejected? Are we sure?

kylemittskus wrote:It was also rejected? Are we sure?

why would he remove it? he only does that when it's NOT moving up the hotness, so he can resub it again

kylemittskus wrote:It was also rejected? Are we sure?

Saw it get resubbed. Watched comments flowing in most of which said "dude, it's still the same shirt you just added some trees on the side." To which ramy responded, "I didn't want to lose the lung effect but I felt the extra scaffolding tacked on the side made it different enough." He then went on to list why everything else in the fog was off topic and how that made his ok.

Woot then came in and stamped the rejection noting, "it's still the same concept, dude, gtfo" (not a quote per se). After which ramy promptly removed it.

Not the first time might I add. If you check his stuff on SDS there are a few shirts that got rejected that I never even saw before. His little japan collage got rejected the first time around too but I have no idea why.

mrwednesday wrote:Woot then came in and stamped the rejection noting, "it's still the same concept, dude, gtfo" (not a quote per se). After which ramy promptly removed it.

Actual rejection, I quote: "A Breath of Fresh Air (Resub)

Rejected because: It is really, really well done, but the concept's the same. It's just been done too much."

I left the browser window open cause I was watching the comments for the photos of halftones. =/

mrwednesday wrote:

Woot then came in and stamped the rejection noting, "it's still the same concept, dude, gtfo" (not a quote per se). After which ramy promptly removed it.

huh, i never realized if you get rejected you can make it vanish.

jmmbell1987 wrote:With my absolute, incontestable authority over all things related to the English language (because I'll have an English degree this May), I declare that you can say "kitty". There shall be no debate over this, unless a fellow English major rises to challenge my rule.

awww thanks, and for that i won't call english major hippies as much

AdderXYU wrote:"Kitty" is way too crude a form. "Kitten" is much more becoming of a scholar of Kayla's education.

its time like this i wish i had a psychic's degree to talk about schodinger and his kittens, a nursing degree to ask about cat scans, or at least a bank to throw up banker cat, alas i have a history degree which means the closest i can get is calling you kittens but spelling it khitan

KaylaJ wrote:its time like this i wish i had a psychic's degree to talk about schodinger and his kittens, a nursing degree to ask about cat scans, or at least a bank to throw up banker cat, alas i have a history degree which means the closest i can get is calling you kittens but spelling it khitan

Could you, at the very least, go on about how in Egypt cats were treated as gods? I'd find that rather fitting for you, Kayla.

KaylaJ wrote:huh, i never realized if you get rejected you can make it vanish.

You can make anything* vanish if it's under the 24 hour time frame. Just like he did.




*within the confines of the derby submissions themselves. I can't say the same for designers or poor entries that remain and are not rejected.

JadenKale wrote:Could you, at the very least, go on about how in Egypt cats were treated as gods? I'd find that rather fitting for you, Kayla.

since cats were domesticated by egyptians cause they could kill the mice and snakes, i hope adders are not common to northern africa! of course if i'm a cute ramby cat, i may in trouble anyway, esp since i'll probably have poor eyesight...

KaylaJ wrote:since cats were domesticated by egyptians cause they could kill the mice and snakes, i hope adders are not common to northern africa! of course if i'm a cute ramby cat, i may in trouble anyway, esp since i'll probably have poor eyesight...

If you were a ramy cat you'd have one blank expression and you wouldn't be able to walk because of your grossly distorted anatomy and stumpy, pawless legs.

Josephus wrote:I have to agree with you. I was certainly wrong about it- I shamefacedly concede the point and will add an edit to my comment in a minute. I must confess that I didn't look anything up- I read a story long ago about the importation of sequoias to London, and the difficulty they had in keeping them alive at first- I think they ended up building charcoal ovens that they buried underground below the trees so that they could keep the ground warm enough in the winter. This would have been at that big Conservatory- must have been while Queen Victoria was alive. It might have even been fiction, now that I think about it.

There are also three types of Sequoias... I hadn't heard of sequioa gigantis growing well anywhere else!

Josephus wrote:well, not entirely:



The accompanying article describes very successful plantings in Italy, and, indeed, most of western and southern Europe, including much of Great Britain as well as this planting in Scotland.

Excellent research! Having spent most of my life on the north coast and mountains of California, I'm partial... and happy to see that others have been able to meet the requirements of the tree to grow them elsewhere.

KaylaJ wrote:its time like this i wish i had a psychic's degree to talk about schodinger and his kittens, a nursing degree to ask about cat scans, or at least a bank to throw up banker cat, alas i have a history degree which means the closest i can get is calling you kittens but spelling it khitan

XD I'm not trying to be a smartass, I just think it's funny to think that all physicists are psychic. Comes with the territory.

mrwednesday wrote:Not the first time might I add. If you check his stuff on SDS there are a few shirts that got rejected that I never even saw before. His little japan collage got rejected the first time around too but I have no idea why.

The shirt was indeed rejected and I removed it, just because of the way that woot has things now where the shirts stay in their current ranking in the middle of the contest when sorted by votes. I couldn't remove this one because it was outside of its first 24 hours.

As for the "japan collage," it wasn't actually ever rejected. SDS seems to have a weird glitch or something where, if a shirt is removed when it doesn't have any votes yet, it comes up as rejected rather than removed (or something along those lines, I haven't done it enough times to know for sure, it might have something to do with the amount of time that it is up)- I posted it several times with the wrong comp/thumbnail/file, etc. and deleted quickly- same thing happened with the dragon maiden design that shows rejected (the thumbnail and comp didn't match correctly so I deleted and reposted immediately). Not sure what causes it, but neither of those designs were actually rejected (there was no reason for them to be, considering that other versions of them that were nearly identical were allowed).

ramyb wrote:The shirt was indeed rejected and I removed it, just because of the way that woot has things now where the shirts stay in their current ranking in the middle of the contest when sorted by votes. I couldn't remove this one because it was outside of its first 24 hours.

so its got nothing to do with the fact that you tried to pass the exact same idea off again and would have to stand all the naysayers telling you they told you so? or the fact that some people posted pictures of an absolutely terrible print of your previous win? those facts didnt factor into your decision at all?

tenieldjo wrote:XD I'm not trying to be a smartass, I just think it's funny to think that all physicists are psychic. Comes with the territory.

lol, that's what happens when i try to spell physics at 4:30 am

marmls2m wrote:so its got nothing to do with the fact that you tried to pass the exact same idea off again and would have to stand all the naysayers telling you they told you so? or the fact that some people posted pictures of an absolutely terrible print of your previous win? those facts didnt factor into your decision at all?

If you didn't notice, this thread is still here and you can say anything you want on it As for photos of my recent shirts, I didn't realize anyone had posted any, but I'd be glad to share my own photos of them (Since I didn't see the photos myself, I wasn't sure which shirt you were referring to, so I figured I'd do my last two to be safe)





My camera isn't the best, but I think you can get a pretty good idea of how the shirts look. The newer one really looks like it glows on the shirt (I keep looking at it and expecting it to glow in the dark- it's really too bad it doesn't)- and the halftone printed amazingly well, it really looks like a gradient ;) I was a bit worried about the dark color I used, but it's definitely bright enough to be visible too. It's *slightly* more yellowish in person than it appears in the photo, but other than that it's pretty true to the design. I'm definitely pleased with how it printed.

As for the blue moon shirt, the halftone on it printed well too and looks like a nice mist/fog. It's been washed too, and it didn't fade at all. I think I want to get in the habit of posting photos of my shirts from now on.

So anyway, enjoy- and to answer your question, No. It had nothing to do with those things

ramyb wrote:

So anyway, enjoy- and to answer your question, No. It had nothing to do with those things

And as we all know, you are a trustworthy sort of guy whose word is his bond. Nowhere is there copious evidence to the contrary.

ramyb wrote:



My camera isn't the best, but I think you can get a pretty good idea of how the shirts look. The newer one really looks like it glows on the shirt (I keep looking at it and expecting it to glow in the dark- it's really too bad it doesn't)- and the halftone printed amazingly well, it really looks like a gradient ;) I was a bit worried about the dark color I used, but it's definitely bright enough to be visible too. It's *slightly* more yellowish in person than it appears in the photo, but other than that it's pretty true to the design. I'm definitely pleased with how it printed.

so you wont acknowledge that the color on the blue moon shirt is terrible? also, what the hell happened to your cauldron shirt? its got an outline. and the coloring for the book and cat are much much brighter than they were in the comp.

marmls2m wrote:so you wont acknowledge that the color on the blue moon shirt is terrible? also, what the hell happened to your cauldron shirt? its got an outline. and the coloring for the book and cat are much much brighter than they were in the comp.

I'm not keeping up with derby threads anymore so I don't know what else has been said, but the two photos seem to match up well with Woot's mock-ups on the respective product pages. The greens on the cauldron design are a bit different, but ramy said the actual shirt has more yellow in it, which accounts for the discrepancy. The darker colours matche too - they're not "much brighter" compared to Woot's comp. And I don't see any outline that wasn't in the comp.

Blue Moon is especially surprising - the photo looks exactly like the mockup, in my opinion. So while you may think the colour is "terrible", your issue is probably with the colour chosen for the design - the print actually matches the comp really well.

Of course, I'm only looking at Woot's comp right now. I'm too lazy to look up the derby entry shirt comp, which may very well use different and/or darker colours than printed. If that's the case, carry on. But the prints certainly seem to match up with Woot's product comp...

AdderXYU wrote:And as we all know, you are a trustworthy sort of guy whose word is his bond. Nowhere is there copious evidence to the contrary.

your post adds nothing of value, no critique to this or any other piece, yet it remains in the thread. that is why you are full of c.r.a.p.

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

Alright, so if the halftones can be so fine they can look like a gradient then why does woot reject some shirts and not others?

mrwednesday wrote:For serious, take a deep breath and calm down a little bit. I know you feel it's sinful to question or criticize the all knowing ever designing ramy, but two things:

1. The lung effect puts this is danger of rejection, which for any artist but ramy would be a near certainty given the substantial similarity to the shirts already posted.

2. As many females have already stated, this is just not a shirt that pairs well with boobies especially for our lovely full figured ladies.

A slight shift away from the lung effect alleviates both concerns. I'm not sure why you'd be against a ramy shirt getting wider appeal?

i didn't need to calm down. you can't interpret tone in a post unless everything is in caps or something. i am just tired of bashing ramyb. it's old, it's played out, just plain l.a.m.e.

i do not support every ramyb shirt, only the ones i want, like the lungs one. in fact i don't support any artist all the time. i like some of tgentry's, bootsboots, drakxxx, binkdrop, genericsmith, jadenkale, jasneko, etc etc etc but i don't vote for every design, nor do i comment on every design. if i like a design, i vote and usually comment my favorite part. if i don't like a design i don't vote and only comment if it was one or two things that turned me away, mainly only when i have a suggestion. like pottery training, i begged for a bright shirt like lemon, the artist switched it and it got 4th or 5th. io was mad because i couldn't have it, but also because i thought did my shirt suggestion keep it from printing? if it is just horrible i keep my comments to myself like any normal person should do.

woot is clear that posts should be constructive criticism, not a thousand posts of "i hate ramy, he does the same thing everytime, shiny desu, halftones, blah blah blah blah". it's l.a.m.e. and really old. you don't have to like every designer, you don't have to like their style, you don't have to vote for them, and you most definitely don't need to bash the designer for making money. that is what this contest is about, making money. if you want to design things for the "art" of them, trying to sell tshirts may not be for you.

anyway, i need to climb back down off my soap box. i am not saying any designer is better than any other, i am just tired of negative nancy (adder) and wally whiner (kyle) never giving constructive feedback. i feel like they wait specifically for ramyb to submit anything and then spend the next six days trying to bash him rather than using that pent up energy to support others they believe in.

so anyway, good luck to everyone.

HalfWheat wrote:Gee, defensive much? I didn't say it should be changed, I just said that it might be a deal-breaker for me, personally. Not the whole universe, just my personal anatomy and lifestyle. And I said "might." Maybe I could pull it off, maybe not. Haven't made that decision yet. Something to think about.

i should have added a smiley face to the end of my post. you can't tell tone with a post, and i was joking about back placement, meaning right now the women complain about front placement, but back placement would receive the same complaints from people not wanting wings. anyway, i wasn't trying to be defensive.

jabberjaws13 wrote:your post adds nothing of value, no critique to this or any other piece, yet it remains in the thread. that is why you are full of c.r.a.p. and need to d.i.a.c.f.

no better than anyone else with the last part.

eHalcyon wrote:I'm not keeping up with derby threads anymore so I don't know what else has been said, but the two photos seem to match up well with Woot's mock-ups on the respective product pages. The greens on the cauldron design are a bit different, but ramy said the actual shirt has more yellow in it, which accounts for the discrepancy. The darker colours matche too - they're not "much brighter" compared to Woot's comp. And I don't see any outline that wasn't in the comp.

Blue Moon is especially surprising - the photo looks exactly like the mockup, in my opinion. So while you may think the colour is "terrible", your issue is probably with the colour chosen for the design - the print actually matches the comp really well.

Of course, I'm only looking at Woot's comp right now. I'm too lazy to look up the derby entry shirt comp, which may very well use different and/or darker colours than printed. If that's the case, carry on. But the prints certainly seem to match up with Woot's product comp...

shame on you! get off your butt and take a look!

-seriously, the submitted shirt's cauldron's base was much darker, the book was completely different, the halftones inside the glowy firey swirly green stuff were so fine you couldn't see them; it was much different. It didn't have those nearly white lines that ended up on there. I was really annoyed because ramy seemed to have lied when he posted a closeup of the design that showed the halftones much larger than the seem to be on the original submission- they looked like the final print file looks, and not like the original submission.

edit: other than the coarser halftones, I don't have any problem with the small changes that ramy made- they all seemed to improve the shirt some, and hopefully will make the really dim things show up that probably would have been too dark to see. I don't know about those white swirls, though- they look kind of out of place.

Josephus wrote:shame on you! get off your butt and take a look!

etc etc etc

i agree about the swirls, i don't like that change at all. i would've been kinda upset if i didn't pay attention to the close up on buy day since it was different than the derby shot,had bought it and it came like that cause like you said they're just so kinda out of place.

but i guess i learned a lesson to really look at the close up shots before i click the ridiculously big yellow button.

KaylaJ wrote:no better than anyone else with the last part.

yeah i know, but i don't claim to be better, or give designers snarky attitudes. i give constructive feedback if i have it. he provides nothing.

anyone he bashes, i bash him. the difference is his posts stay, mine get tattled and deleted. but i am ok with that, because the pm's i get are pretty funny.

ramyb wrote:stuff

Your mockup


What woot sold


What the shirt actually looks like.


Now what I am seeing is that from your comp to the woot comp the book was completely changed to make it more distinct. The colors of the cauldron, cat and book were made brighter so that they'd show up better. The halftoning was reduced on the cauldron. The greens in the flames are duller. The gray border is more distinct and the superfine halftones were all converted to woot-printable halftones and the random lines were added that don't look good at all.

What I see going from woot's mock up to the shirt is that the greens look nothing alike and there is a much bigger haze of halftones around the design for some reason. They are very distinct as we said they would be and look nothing like the original mock. 99% of the detail around the legs and the cauldron is completely lost and it still has nothing to do with cooking.

If I get time to do this for blue moon I will or someone can do it for me, but again if this is the shirt I got based on what I voted for I'd be pissed.

eHalcyon wrote:I'm not keeping up with derby threads anymore so I don't know what else has been said, but the two photos seem to match up well with Woot's mock-ups on the respective product pages. The greens on the cauldron design are a bit different, but ramy said the actual shirt has more yellow in it, which accounts for the discrepancy. The darker colours matche too - they're not "much brighter" compared to Woot's comp. And I don't see any outline that wasn't in the comp.

Blue Moon is especially surprising - the photo looks exactly like the mockup, in my opinion. So while you may think the colour is "terrible", your issue is probably with the colour chosen for the design - the print actually matches the comp really well.

Of course, I'm only looking at Woot's comp right now. I'm too lazy to look up the derby entry shirt comp, which may very well use different and/or darker colours than printed. If that's the case, carry on. But the prints certainly seem to match up with Woot's product comp...

I think it's interesting that Woot is letting the artists make changes to the shirt after to voting is over. Or that they're allowing the print file to be different than the derby comp. Whichever the case is.

On the one hand, it's nice that the end result could/should/will be a better product, but what if someone makes changes that people don't like and wouldn't have voted for?

And it's really not fair to the artists who see they have a mistake and take the shirt down to make a correction and then resubmit the improved version. With a close race, that later submission could mean the difference between printing or not.

And there are a lot of artist who do take down their shirts and make corrections based on comments. They're hoping to get more votes by making the correction, but risking losing votes for submitting the work later in the derby.

In the case of Blue Moon, there may have been lost votes because the design wasn't corrected. Not that it mattered, since it printed, but a lot of people were saying that they would have voted if the woman's arm was the right proportion. That error was fixed on the print file, which is nice for the people who bought the shirt.

But it begs the question of whether other artists should be leaving errors in place and promising to fix them on the print version. To make things fair for the artists, I think Woot needs to clarify what sort of changes they'll allow on the print files.

mrwednesday wrote:Your mockup


What woot sold


What the shirt actually looks like.


Now what I am seeing is that from your comp to the woot comp the book was completely changed to make it more distinct. The colors of the cauldron, cat and book were made brighter so that they'd show up better. The halftoning was reduced on the cauldron. The greens in the flames are duller. The gray border is more distinct and the superfine halftones were all converted to woot-printable halftones and the random lines were added that don't look good at all.

What I see going from woot's mock up to the shirt is that the greens look nothing alike and there is a much bigger haze of halftones around the design for some reason. They are very distinct as we said they would be and look nothing like the original mock. 99% of the detail around the legs and the cauldron is completely lost and it still has nothing to do with cooking.

Woot says that they reserve the right to change the colors of designs as they see fit first of all (although the colors aren't much changed at all, like I said the print version is more yellowish than what the picture shows). Second, the halftones didn't get any smaller- look at the background image on the original submission- the halftones were never any smaller than that. And I don't think they look any larger between the original submission and the woot comp, and I again don't think they look any larger between what woot showed and what printed. Ultimately, when you look really really close at the shirt, it looks similar to the closeup that I posted, and when you look at it from a normal distance (for example, when standing in front of someone wearing it). I'm not sure what you are arguing here, I'm the one who posted the photos of the shirt myself because I like how it printed and think that your concerns didn't actually play out. If you feel the need to point out issues with it, that's fine, and I know you won't be able to control yourself, but with a photo up, people can decide for themselves if they like it or not, and buy/not buy accordingly.

jabberjaws13 wrote:a few paragraphs

While Adder can definitely be seen regularly criticizing Ramy (often rather harshly), he is also usually seen perusing the other entries and offering genuine criticism. I've even seen positive comments! (:o

The same is true of Kyle; though, he has been becoming increasingly anti-Ramy of late.

BaldBob007 wrote:While Adder can definitely be seen regularly criticizing Ramy (often rather harshly), he is also usually seen perusing the other entries and offering genuine criticism. I've even seen positive comments! (:o

The same is true of Kyle; though, he has been becoming increasingly anti-Ramy of late.

what was the few paragraphs thing? when did i type that?

regardless, all i was trying to say is that is the complaint each week is "ramy (or insert name) can't do anything, same old stuff, blah blah blah" then they should just stay out of that particular shirt thread.

the ones i loath the most are the people who comment saying "i knew who this was before i clicked the thumbnail...." and then proceed to bash the artist for doing the same thing, using the same technique, whatever whatever.

if they don't like the design because it is the same old thing, don't say anything, or perhaps say, "i would have liked to see you progress the design this way, etc." if they don't like a nitpick of the design, then be clear about what they would suggest the artist should fix.

posting hate-spewed threads of "i hate your halftones this, and glowy effect that" is not constructive. if ramy (or any other artist) wants to use halftones, glowy effect, or shiny desu, or any other style that is that person's choice.

now, people i have respect for are you, as well as eHacylon (hopefully spelled right). i say that because you two actually suggest ways to improve designs, how to make them better, or a finishing touch. that being said, if it's in the pre-derby thread, most designers listen to your suggestions. if is at the beginning of the derby, some artists have even resubbed quickly with the suggested changes. and if it's too far along they generally leave the originals, but for all we know they may make the change just in case they print in their own shop someday.

anyway, i am just wanting people to help, not hinder. jm2c.

eHalcyon wrote:
Blue Moon is especially surprising - the photo looks exactly like the mockup, in my opinion. So while you may think the colour is "terrible", your issue is probably with the colour chosen for the design - the print actually matches the comp really well

shirt comp:
[/quote]

wootasourous' shirt:


your shirt:


can someone please explain to me why ramybs shirt looks so much better than the other posted shirt looks? did ramyb get a special print not available to other users? or did ramyb do some digital touch-ups to fix the glaring color problem?

also this:

ramyb wrote:If you didn't notice, this thread is still here and you can say anything you want on it

ramyb wrote: I couldn't remove this one because it was outside of its first 24 hours.

doesnt this imply that you would remove this submission if you could? so then why say that this thread is still here when you would remove it if you could? the only reason this thread is still here is because you cant do anything about it!

ramyb wrote:Woot says that they reserve the right to change the colors of designs as they see fit first of all (although the colors aren't much changed at all, like I said the print version is more yellowish than what the picture shows). Second, the halftones didn't get any smaller- look at the background image on the original submission- the halftones were never any smaller than that. And I don't think they look any larger between the original submission and the woot comp, and I again don't think they look any larger between what woot showed and what printed. Ultimately, when you look really really close at the shirt, it looks similar to the closeup that I posted, and when you look at it from a normal distance (for example, when standing in front of someone wearing it). I'm not sure what you are arguing here, I'm the one who posted the photos of the shirt myself because I like how it printed and think that your concerns didn't actually play out. If you feel the need to point out issues with it, that's fine, and I know you won't be able to control yourself, but with a photo up, people can decide for themselves if they like it or not, and buy/not buy accordingly.

Yes they most certainly can, but no one is going to buy that those three images are even remotely the same design. Now unless woot did an entire redesign for you, you yourself made the changes to the print ready file from the original comp. The fact that you are trying to pretend they are the same only cements how much of a bold faced liar you are. And it's all there for anyone to see and judge for themselves.

I mean really ramy, entire portions of the flames are removed between the two comps. The book is completely redesigned and the colors have all been modified not to mention the halftones are incredibly noticably larger in the second comp. Not the mention the halftones extend a full inch past the outer edge of the design. That isn't shown in either comp.

Bottom line is that the shirt you designed and everyone voted on did not print. Instead of rejecting you for being off topic they let it get through. Instead of then rejecting you for not making a printable design they allowed you to completely rework the design to attempt to address every single printing concern people mentioned. Above and beyond that modifications were made that don't improve the design at all (i.e. the massive halftone haze around the flames).

I don't know what kind of deal you've made with woot but no other designer has ever been allowed that kind of lattitude and it needs to end. I sincerely hope that your repeat rejections this week are a sign that woot is finally tired of dealing with this garbage.

ramyb wrote:Woot says that they reserve the right to change the colors of designs as they see fit first of all (although the colors aren't much changed at all, like I said the print version is more yellowish than what the picture shows). Second, the halftones didn't get any smaller- look at the background image on the original submission- the halftones were never any smaller than that. And I don't think they look any larger between the original submission and the woot comp, and I again don't think they look any larger between what woot showed and what printed. Ultimately, when you look really really close at the shirt, it looks similar to the closeup that I posted, and when you look at it from a normal distance (for example, when standing in front of someone wearing it). I'm not sure what you are arguing here, I'm the one who posted the photos of the shirt myself because I like how it printed and think that your concerns didn't actually play out. If you feel the need to point out issues with it, that's fine, and I know you won't be able to control yourself, but with a photo up, people can decide for themselves if they like it or not, and buy/not buy accordingly.

Ramy, I never had any issue with the multiple changes that you or woot made, except the halftones. They do look different, they do. All the detail of the darker color at the edge of the lower half of the woman is gone in the print file, as it is in the closeup you posted. I can see the difference in the images posted here. The appearance is that you changed it when you got ready to send in your print file, and posted that changed file for your closeup. If you want to say that was an inadvertent mistake, that you didn't realize that the change in those halftones was as visible as it is to many people who see it, fine. But don't try to say that it looks the same as the submission image, because we can see that it doesn't.

BaldBob007 wrote:While Adder can definitely be seen regularly criticizing Ramy (often rather harshly), he is also usually seen perusing the other entries and offering genuine criticism. I've even seen positive comments! (:o

The same is true of Kyle; though, he has been becoming increasingly anti-Ramy of late.

I think what one needs to truly ask themselves is: why is being against someone bad, if you truly believe nothing they do is good?

The argument on the other side is "if you don't like it, leave it alone". Which is a horrible argument. I am sure these same people hate sports stars for not making plays, or for being too good for their precious team to beat. I am sure they make political statements that show only their bias, and not any education as to what is going on. I am sure they base plenty of opinions on plenty of high-profile people based solely on what others say. And don't, as they insist, "leave [these people] alone".

'round these parts, Ramy is high-profile, deserved or not. And there is a list miles long of things he has done and continually does wrong. His designer ethics are so shoddy you could drive trucks through the holes in them. And what people say, week in and week out, is "this is the same stuff that was wrong last week." It is like telling your senator "this is not what we voted on" every time he makes a decision that is against what his constituency desires and against what his platform insisted. And when someone is continually going back on their word, and playing fast and loose with the rules, they should be continually called out on it. There isn't a point where that becomes OK just because it's been done so much.

I don't believe that anyone who is anti-Ramy is such without having a stockpile of fair reasons why they feel he doesn't deserve his success. And I don't believe anyone who ever defends him has any reason to do so other than "be nice" or "I like his work". Why do you like it? Why do you feel he can work to lower standards than others? Why do you need two tees that look so similar? And so forth.

No one attacks Ramy blindly. If he seems singled out to you, it is because his work is the most consistently worthy of critique, dislike, question, yawning, and any other negative comment regularly made. The critiques are always the same because the designs are always the same. Which is to say, while this week's is not the same as last week, they're both full of overused imagery, both frighteningly tenuous regarding theme, and both insistently defended as not being either. And these are things that happen every week. Why shouldn't people be offended over it, when also every week, the most original pieces and styles are overlooked?

doublepost is posted doubly

marmls2m wrote:

can someone please explain to me why ramybs shirt looks so much better than the other posted shirt looks? did ramyb get a special print not available to other users? or did ramyb do some digital touch-ups to fix the glaring color problem?

I hadn't seen that photo, but it looks like it was just taken with a high intensity flash. The navy color of the shirt itself is much brighter than any I've seen as well, and the tag looks like it's glowing. I'm glad you think it printed well though, and if anyone got a version that does not look like the photo I posted, I'm pretty sure they can just send an email to woot and ask for a new one and send in a photo- I got 3 of the shirt and all of them looked just like the one I posted.

marmls2m wrote:doesnt this imply that you would remove this submission if you could? so then why say that this thread is still here when you would remove it if you could? the only reason this thread is still here is because you cant do anything about it!

I would have loved to delete this one as well, but the point I was making was simply that there was no advantage in removing the other thread when I knew this one was still here and I couldn't do anything about it.

mrwednesday wrote:stuff

While I know it's difficult for you to do, try reading what I said next time before responding. I said openly that I fixed the book myself, so that's not woot's redesign. But changing colors IS something that woot reserves the right to do, and has been known to do in the past on many designs. They either don't have all pantones available, or the production team decides to change things. Either way, that's out of my hands. I get the point. You like to piss all over my thread and make a scene and call me a liar, but you need to learn that sometimes you really don't have a point and your arguing is entirely meaningless. You're acting like you "caught me in the act" or something, when I'm the one who posted photos of the shirt myself. I have nothing to hide, I've said numerous times that I'm pleased with the way that it printed, and if anyone doesn't like it, they don't have to buy it. The photo is here for all to see, and it looks just like what woot posted, which people could view before purchasing in the first place.

Josephus wrote:Ramy, I never had any issue with the multiple changes that you or woot made, except the halftones. They do look different, they do. All the detail of the darker color at the edge of the lower half of the woman is gone in the print file, as it is in the closeup you posted. I can see the difference in the images posted here. The appearance is that you changed it when you got ready to send in your print file, and posted that changed file for your closeup. If you want to say that was an inadvertent mistake, that you didn't realize that the change in those halftones was as visible as it is to many people who see it, fine. But don't try to say that it looks the same as the submission image, because we can see that it doesn't.

I was so busy arguing about the size of the halftones (which really didn't change, I promise you), but I took another look at what you mentioned and figured out the issue, which was a mistake on my part. The way that I do my entries is that I work on many layers, and then when it's time to submit my print ready (if the shirt is in contention), I merge and rearrange the layers so that they are reduced to six (one for each color)- If I use the shirt color for anything, I generally draw it on, then delete it out of my layers. In this case, I had used black over the darkest green color and under the light green, but when I went to create the print ready file, I didn't delete the black out of that area without realizing it. That's why some of the details in that area were lost, and I apologize for that.

ramyb wrote:Woot says that they reserve the right to change the colors of designs as they see fit first of all (although the colors aren't much changed at all, like I said the print version is more yellowish than what the picture shows). Second, the halftones didn't get any smaller- look at the background image on the original submission- the halftones were never any smaller than that. And I don't think they look any larger between the original submission and the woot comp, and I again don't think they look any larger between what woot showed and what printed. Ultimately, when you look really really close at the shirt, it looks similar to the closeup that I posted, and when you look at it from a normal distance (for example, when standing in front of someone wearing it). I'm not sure what you are arguing here, I'm the one who posted the photos of the shirt myself because I like how it printed and think that your concerns didn't actually play out. If you feel the need to point out issues with it, that's fine, and I know you won't be able to control yourself, but with a photo up, people can decide for themselves if they like it or not, and buy/not buy accordingly.

Ramy, I have to say that most of the changes you made, or woot made, are perfectly good things. The book is more visible, being larger, and the fire at the bottom is also helpfully brighter, as it your little icon of a kitty. I don't understand those nearly white swirls on top, but they don't really hurt anything.
However, the way you added those coarser halftones after the fact is troubling. They just weren't there to begin with- the submission image shows a distinct edge to the woman's shape, and a darker background behind her lower half that has become invisible since you showed your 'detail image' to Joel.

The very small halftones that I thought had made up the gradient that the woman was made from are also gone now. The printed shirt looks just exactly like the detail image woot put up with the design. Neither one looks like the original submitted design; they look cruder now, coarser with that kind of cloud that is the current halftone. This bothers me because your submitted design looks better than the design that you gave to woot to print. If you want to say that it was an inadvertent error, that you didn't realize that the image you posted as a closeup detail image in response to Joel's request for clarification of the small halftones was a newer version, then fine. But don't say that they look the same. They don't.

Josephus wrote:...

Er...did you respond to my previous post again by mistake?

Josephus wrote:Ramy, I have to say that most of the changes you made, or woot made, are perfectly good things. The book is more visible, being larger, and the fire at the bottom is also helpfully brighter, as it your little icon of a kitty. I don't understand those nearly white swirls on top, but they don't really hurt anything.
However, the way you added those coarser halftones after the fact is troubling. They just weren't there to begin with- the submission image shows a distinct edge to the woman's shape, and a darker background behind her lower half that has become invisible since you showed your 'detail image' to Joel.

The very small halftones that I thought had made up the gradient that the woman was made from are also gone now. The printed shirt looks just exactly like the detail image woot put up with the design. Neither one looks like the original submitted design; they look cruder now, coarser with that kind of cloud that is the current halftone. This bothers me because your submitted design looks better than the design that you gave to woot to print. If you want to say that it was an inadvertent error, that you didn't realize that the image you posted as a closeup detail image in response to Joel's request for clarification of the small halftones was a newer version, then fine. But don't say that they look the same. They don't.

Exactly, ramy. In your response to me, your response to Adder and your response to Josephus you completely ignore most of the argument and address one tiny aspect in hopes that people will forget you brushed the rest under the rug.

The half-tones you submitted to woot are different from the half-tones in your comp.

They are different because you made finer half-tones for the comp and then submitted coarser half-tones to woot

That's the bottom line. You know it. I know. Anyone with eyes knows it. No other designer is allowed to skate by with that nonsense nor should they be.

You are misleading voters with deliberately inaccurate comps.

Don't bother responding if you're just going to dance around the issue. The halftones didn't get bigger on their own. I am absolutely sure you will continue to pretend nothing changed but every can see you're lying. The giant halftone border around the design is proof positive you can't pretend isn't there.

ramyb wrote:Er...did you respond to my previous post again by mistake?

yeah- I first realized it here:
http://shirt.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=3485946&PageIndex=42&ReplyCount=1675#post3494774

The only way I can see any of these posts now is to set the page index to 43. It then shows me all of page 42. Otherwise my view stops at 3:36 PM or 4:36 Eastern.

Thanks to no1 for showing me the kludge to see the rest of the page.

ramyb wrote:Woot says that they reserve the right to change the colors of designs as they see fit first of all (although the colors aren't much changed at all, like I said the print version is more yellowish than what the picture shows). Second, the halftones didn't get any smaller- look at the background image on the original submission- the halftones were never any smaller than that. And I don't think they look any larger between the original submission and the woot comp, and I again don't think they look any larger between what woot showed and what printed. Ultimately, when you look really really close at the shirt, it looks similar to the closeup that I posted, and when you look at it from a normal distance (for example, when standing in front of someone wearing it). I'm not sure what you are arguing here, I'm the one who posted the photos of the shirt myself because I like how it printed and think that your concerns didn't actually play out. If you feel the need to point out issues with it, that's fine, and I know you won't be able to control yourself, but with a photo up, people can decide for themselves if they like it or not, and buy/not buy accordingly.

who's decision was it for the yellowy swirls? as i stated before, that's what would upset me the most if i voted and bought considering i think they just don't look right.

jabberjaws13 wrote:
anyone he bashes, i bash him.

in the end if both sides are against each other, then no one is offering anything constructive

blah blah blah. Sorry that's the most I have for today. Too tired to debate with the ignorant. How's that for constructive criticism. That's about as useful as most of the garbage I've read. ;)

ramyb wrote:While I know it's difficult for you to do, try reading what I said next time before responding. I said openly that I fixed the book myself, so that's not woot's redesign.

I'm curious if woot said anything about this, or the addition of the dragon body? I know in the past I've thought of redoing certain elements of my designs after letting them soak in for a few days but have been wary of woot rejecting it as not resembling the comps. I've done some very minor corrections, but the total reworking of the book and addition of the dragon's body strike me as pretty major decisions. Where this might affect things is this: you won third place by 12 votes; is it possible that 12 people might not have voted for the design because they didn't like the white lines going across the flames? There's obviously no way to know for sure, but when changing things up you're essentially taking the decision making out of the hands of the voters. I'm not trying to flame, bi-ch, or harass, I'm more interested in what boundaries woot is setting for things that will influence my own submissions so I can act accordingly. If they don't really mind reworking the design that's a plus for me (a very big plus, as I could have swapped a certain deco eagle with a nice deco penguin), but people voting on the designs might disagree. Again, I'm just trying to find out what the guidelines for this is and if they've discussed it all with you.

oops. double post.

mrwednesday wrote:The half-tones you submitted to woot are different from the half-tones in your comp.

They are different because you made finer half-tones for the comp and then submitted coarser half-tones to woot.

As a voter and purchaser, I'd like to know how many changes an artist can make to a design between what's being voted on and what actually goes to print.

And if an artist plans on making changes to a design, I'd like that to be disclosed. In some cases, a fixed design might get more votes if an error is off-putting. In other cases, the change might lose votes for the design. But if I'm voting, I want to know what I'm voting for - or not voting for.

The problem I have with the changes to this design are not necsssarily the results to the shirt. But that perhaps this shouldn't have been left up for voting and changed after, but it should have been resubmitted with the corrections.

I don't know - would other artists have resubbed to make these corrections to the book and the colors at the bottom? Are they all allowed to make design changes like this on the print file without those changes being shown during the derby?

If other artists would have resubbed to make changes like this, then the problem I have is that this design might not have printed, depending on when the new version would have emerged as a resub. In which case, the fourth place shirt would have printed. And that's not fair at all to the fourth place shirt.

If other artists would not have been allowed to make these sorts of changes, I think Woot owes the fourth place shirt an EC and a print.

HalfWheat wrote:Interesting post...

You know, I considered this last week when Ramyb said that he would be submitting the print ready file to Woot a day early when it was 4 days into the derby...

I thought "OH, that's how he gets his submission up very close to first, he doesn't wait for the large photoshop file to upload to Woot's servers he just submits the thumbnail and shirt comp."

That doesn't seem very fair considering that he was able to rework/add/change parts of his cooking design without having to lose any votes by re-subbing it. Kind of surprising.

Might be good if Woot put into effect a rule that if you don't submit your print ready file with your submission that the submission doesn't get put up for voting until the print ready file is received by email.

On the other hand, easy way to get you design in first. Wink wink.

dxsmachina wrote:You know, I considered this last week when Ramyb said that he would be submitting the print ready file to Woot a day early when it was 4 days into the derby...

I thought "OH, that's how he gets his submission up very close to first, he doesn't wait for the large photoshop file to upload to Woot's servers he just submits the thumbnail and shirt comp."

That doesn't seem very fair considering that he was able to rework/add/change parts of his cooking design without having to lose any votes by re-subbing it. Kind of surprising.

Might be good if Woot put into effect a rule that if you don't submit your print ready file with your submission that the submission doesn't get put up for voting until the print ready file is received by email.

On the other hand, easy way to get you design in first. Wink wink.

From what I've read, some of the artists have trouble uploading the files, so they email them later, and some don't bother sending the files unless they think they have a chance of printing.

Part of the derby "game" is to get your art done as quickly as possible so it starts getting votes quickly, so it doesn't seem fair for someone to submit a design early and finish (or fix) it later when other artists are submitting the final product or resubbing to fix things.

And if Woot does allow these fixes, it should be allowed for all of the artists. I recall one artist who said she submitted a new print file with a minor problem fixed, but Woot printed the original. So how is that fair?

And why do I have a double post above this, and no edit button? I'll fix that later.

HalfWheat wrote:
And why do I have a double post above this, and no edit button? I'll fix that later.

Sometimes you can only edit a post on the large community comment thread... which, for some reason, looks like it's not updating to page 44, but it's there if you type in the page number. Or click here.

dxsmachina wrote:Sometimes you can only edit a post on the large community comment thread... which, for some reason, looks like it's not updating to page 44, but it's there if you type in the page number. Or click here.

Thanks

HalfWheat wrote:As a voter and purchaser, I'd like to know how many changes an artist can make to a design between what's being voted on and what actually goes to print.

And if an artist plans on making changes to a design, I'd like that to be disclosed. In some cases, a fixed design might get more votes if an error is off-putting. In other cases, the change might lose votes for the design. But if I'm voting, I want to know what I'm voting for - or not voting for.

The problem I have with the changes to this design are not necsssarily the results to the shirt. But that perhaps this shouldn't have been left up for voting and changed after, but it should have been resubmitted with the corrections.

I don't know - would other artists have resubbed to make these corrections to the book and the colors at the bottom? Are they all allowed to make design changes like this on the print file without those changes being shown during the derby?

If other artists would have resubbed to make changes like this, then the problem I have is that this design might not have printed, depending on when the new version would have emerged as a resub. In which case, the fourth place shirt would have printed. And that's not fair at all to the fourth place shirt.

If other artists would not have been allowed to make these sorts of changes, I think Woot owes the fourth place shirt an EC and a print.

I am pretty sure Cho's "Baha I has nets too" got printed as originally mocked despite cho fixing a detail. A much more minor one, and one that would have fixed, not altered, the design.

The definite fact, though, is that some people get to do whatever they want and not face any consequences, and others have to follow the rules to a T and even then get shafted. And it NEVER works out in favor of people who know what art is.

mrwednesday wrote:
The half-tones you submitted to woot are different from the half-tones in your comp.

They are different because you made finer half-tones for the comp and then submitted coarser half-tones to woot

Looking at the original comp and then the print ready file, it seems (to my layman's eye) that Mr. Wed is absolutely right here. The halftones look much finer to me on the original, to the point where I actually wondered if they were gradients instead of halftones. Is there anyone besides ramy, especially any designers, that isn't seeing the difference Wednesday is pointing out here?

That being said, I can't remember who brought up the picture of the Blue Moon shirt earlier in the thread, but there are all kinds of reasons why the shirts could've photographed differently. The quality of the optics, the shutter speed, or the strength of the flash, any of it could have a drastic effect on the end-result. Rarely do I see two pictures of the same shirt in the shirt thread where the colors match up exactly.

mikenytola wrote:blah blah blah. Sorry that's the most I have for today. Too tired to debate with the ignorant. How's that for constructive criticism. That's about as useful as most of the garbage I've read. ;)

C'mon now, there's been plenty of value said in this thread. Harsh, perhaps, but worthy of discussion. I don't see what can be construed as "ignorant".

tgentry wrote:I'm curious if woot said anything about this, or the addition of the dragon body? I know in the past I've thought of redoing certain elements of my designs after letting them soak in for a few days but have been wary of woot rejecting it as not resembling the comps. I've done some very minor corrections, but the total reworking of the book and addition of the dragon's body strike me as pretty major decisions. Where this might affect things is this: you won third place by 12 votes; is it possible that 12 people might not have voted for the design because they didn't like the white lines going across the flames? There's obviously no way to know for sure, but when changing things up you're essentially taking the decision making out of the hands of the voters. I'm not trying to flame, bi-ch, or harass, I'm more interested in what boundaries woot is setting for things that will influence my own submissions so I can act accordingly. If they don't really mind reworking the design that's a plus for me (a very big plus, as I could have swapped a certain deco eagle with a nice deco penguin), but people voting on the designs might disagree. Again, I'm just trying to find out what the guidelines for this is and if they've discussed it all with you.

i would be very interested to know the reply you get ont his either from ramyb or woot. can you please make the information you find public, if it is not?

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air

Well, I thought it was cool. maybe some other time

jmmbell1987 wrote:C'mon now, there's been plenty of value said in this thread. Harsh, perhaps, but worthy of discussion. I don't see what can be construed as "ignorant".

Just said "most" of the garbage. There have been some solid points made. I just don't feel like pointing out the fallacy in some of the statements made. Yes, I'm being lazy.

AdderXYU wrote:I am pretty sure Cho's "Baha I has nets too" got printed as originally mocked despite cho fixing a detail. A much more minor one, and one that would have fixed, not altered, the design.

The definite fact, though, is that some people get to do whatever they want and not face any consequences, and others have to follow the rules to a T and even then get shafted. And it NEVER works out in favor of people who know what art is.

The same is true for "The Sex Drugs" by leonryan. He accidentally left the layer for the cymbal on the right side of the design behind the robots arm in his comp. It was noticed almost immediately and he posted a correction which I thought and many others felt was better.

He sent the corrected file to woot but they would not print the correction, I can only assume because it was not consistent with the mock people voted on. Yet again a complete double standard for completely inexplicable reasons.