Re: Rugrats
Rugrats.
This is an idea that Bassanimation gave me a few months ago that I'd been working on making into a painting. I'd stalled on the image for awhile until this derby came up. I really happy I was able to finish this version for Woot and hopefully I can finally do the same for the painting.
I hope you all like it.
Re: Rugrats
Another really beautiful illustration! The lighter-colored rat actually makes me think of a painted ceramic figure more than a rug, but this is one of those designs that's strong enough to work without the context of the title.
Re: Rugrats
GREAT illustration, concept and colors. Both of your designs this week are really nice, and both are criminally under voted.
Re: Rugrats
BTW, "Axminster Rats" is hereby added to my list of awesome names for my non-existent band.
Re: Rugrats
This is a great design, I love the pattern. I'm surprised this isn't getting more play.
Drakxxx wrote:GREAT illustration, concept and colors. Both of your designs this week are really nice, and both are criminally under voted.
Yeah, I don't know what it is, it could be the art/style/image/coloring or it could be that no one's seeing it or that the people seeing it don't like it. I don't have a huge following and I'm new here so I guess I'll just have to keep trying or something. Thanks so much for the really nice comment.
Re: Rugrats
I would buy 50 of these shirts...one for each year of the rest of my potential life...I LOVE this so much. And yeah, your work is not getting the notice it deserves here. I keep telling you...you gotta submit the desu yo! LOOL!
Its ok, you know the rat folk got your back ^_~.
Re: Rugrats
Oh, I also posted this to the R.A.T. list, the FL List and Facebook. Buwahahahahaaa!
Re: Rugrats
bassanimation wrote:I would buy 50 of these shirts...one for each year of the rest of my potential life...I LOVE this so much. And yeah, your work is not getting the notice it deserves here. I keep telling you...you gotta submit the desu yo! LOOL!
Its ok, you know the rat folk got your back ^_~.
DianaSprinkle wrote:I don't know "desu" might not be enough, I think maybe if a did a nice tree made out of bunnies and reapers with exploding bears fighting robots... I'd somehow find just the right time to post it so no one would see it and it'd be covered by other designs in moments.
Cursed... cursed, I say! =]
Eh. you've got three solid designs in one week, two of which seem to have gotten some glowing praise. I guess to me that would be enough.
It'd be a shame to lose the best of what you can do for the sake of winning. I've only seen you around for a couple weeks... seems way early to fold. Especially for someone who has already submitted potential winning-quality work to Threadless.
DianaSprinkle wrote:I don't know "desu" might not be enough, I think maybe if a did a nice tree made out of bunnies and reapers with exploding bears fighting robots... I'd somehow find just the right time to post it so no one would see it and it'd be covered by other designs in moments.
Cursed... cursed, I say! =]
You need to do a reaper with big giant chibi eyes, flowing hair, sitting in a magnificent tree made out of kitties...with pumpkins at the base....oh yeah and put an explosion in the background...shooting out bears... Now -that- would be "Woot worthy".
bassanimation wrote:You need to do a reaper with big giant chibi eyes, flowing hair, sitting in a magnificent tree made out of kitties...with pumpkins at the base....oh yeah and put an explosion in the background...shooting out bears... Now -that- would be "Woot worthy".
LOL, I would probably end up having to re-submit and lose all my votes cause I'd inevitably end up misspelling the title "Mai Magnifi Reapertree Kittah Explody Bear" or something. =D
Either that or I'd choose a horrible thumbnail. It's a talent!
DianaSprinkle wrote:LOL, I would probably end up having to re-submit and lose all my votes cause I'd inevitably end up misspelling the title "Mai Magnifi Reapertree Kittah Explody Bear" or something. =D
Either that or I'd choose a horrible thumbnail. It's a talent!
I dont know...it seems that being anywhere in the top 20 garners you some harassment from the White Knight patrol. Be glad you're not getting hammered by incessant fighting and insults desu??
AdderXYU wrote:Eh. you've got three solid designs in one week, two of which seem to have gotten some glowing praise. I guess to me that would be enough.
It'd be a shame to lose the best of what you can do for the sake of winning. I've only seen you around for a couple weeks... seems way early to fold. Especially for someone who has already submitted potential winning-quality work to Threadless.
Yes, all of that would be great, if this (SHIRT WOOT) wasn't a contest. I'm ecstatically happy to get the replies and comments and votes I am getting. But IT'S A CONTEST. One that ties up my art for 2 months.
If I was posting this to my blog I could also be selling the art in my store. That might be nice, right?
I value my art. I think I should get paid to make it. You'll note I still make it anyway and I post it for free. BUT let me tell you getting paid to do this stuff, that's what I want. I don't think I should give my art away for nothing because you think that's what makes art pure. No, that's what makes artists poor and sad.
Being able to make art is a skill that should be rewarded. I don't think I deserve to win or something. But I'm trying my best. If I joke around about getting lost in the crowd it's just my way off blowing off steam.
If you think people shouldn't do art for money then that's great, noble but that's exactly, EXACTLY, how scam people make young artists work for nothing. "If you really were an artist you'd do it for free because you love it. That's what a real artists does because they love it."
In other news... Threadless is Threadless IF they get back to me that won't effect this contest at all. Though it would make me very happy. =D
Sorry to dump on you but cheese and rice, it constantly sounds like you just want artists to starve for trying to win a contest.
DianaSprinkle wrote:Yes, all of that would be great, if this (SHIRT WOOT) wasn't a contest. I'm ecstatically happy to get the replies and comments and votes I am getting. But IT'S A CONTEST. One that ties up my art for 2 months.
If I was posting this to my blog I could also be selling the art in my store. That might be nice, right?
I value my art. I think I should get paid to make it. You'll note I still make it anyway and I post it for free. BUT let me tell you getting paid to do this stuff, that's what I want. I don't think I should give my art away for nothing because you think that's what makes art pure. No, that's what makes artists poor and sad.
Being able to make art is a skill that should be rewarded. I don't think I deserve to win or something. But I'm trying my best. If I joke around about getting lost in the crowd it's just my way off blowing off steam.
If you think people shouldn't do art for money then that's great, noble but that's exactly, EXACTLY, how scam people make young artists work for nothing. "If you really were an artist you'd do it for free because you love it. That's what a real artists does because they love it."
In other news... Threadless is Threadless IF they get back to me that won't effect this contest at all. Though it would make me very happy. =D
Sorry to dump on you but cheese and rice, it constantly sounds like you just want artists to starve for trying to win a contest.
I'm buying you a steak dinner for this post, you. A STEAK DINNER. Or dinner of your choice, anything you want, you pick it, I'm buyin'. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for this post.
In art school, they don't teach kids how to -not- be scammed by people who think art should be done for free. It's why a lot of us are underpaid, underappreciated, or flat out passed over for our skills. We all love what we do, but we also have to live in this world, and it ain't free. Rent ain't free. Car ain't free. Adobe Creative Suite ain't free. Internet connection to WOOT ain't free.
We HAVE to survive, and using our skills to do so is not evil. We were given these gifts to share with the world, but the world should also give as well as recieve.
Ah if only we lived in a communist society, we could just do art and not have to worry about money. But alas..free market, democracy, capitalism, all that. :\
EXTREMELY well said!
DianaSprinkle wrote:
I value my art. I think I should get paid to make it. You'll note I still make it anyway and I post it for free. BUT let me tell you getting paid to do this stuff, that's what I want. I don't think I should give my art away for nothing because you think that's what makes art pure. No, that's what makes artists poor and sad.
Thank you!!
This attitude that art is just some form of expression that should be free to all is why so many people CAN'T make money doing art. Why pay a professional with 15-20 years of experience when you can get some jackass with "artistic integrity" on the interwebs to do it for free?
People have got to realize that art is every bit as marketable a skill as any other trade skill. The idea that "real" artists only do it for the love of their art is hurting the field. It's hard to express your artistic vision when you're having to crash on people's couches, beg for change, or work a dead-end wage-slave job just to get by.
Getting paid to do a job you enjoy is what everyone should strive for. Anybody preaching against that is full of it. Nobody asks a lawyer to work for free, so why would you ask an artist to?
bassanimation wrote:I'm buying you a steak dinner for this post, you. A STEAK DINNER. Or dinner of your choice, anything you want, you pick it, I'm buyin'. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for this post.
In art school, they don't teach kids how to -not- be scammed by people who think art should be done for free. It's why a lot of us are underpaid, underappreciated, or flat out passed over for our skills. We all love what we do, but we also have to live in this world, and it ain't free. Rent ain't free. Car ain't free. Adobe Creative Suite ain't free. Internet connection to WOOT ain't free.
We HAVE to survive, and using our skills to do so is not evil. We were given these gifts to share with the world, but the world should also give as well as recieve.
Ah if only we lived in a communist society, we could just do art and not have to worry about money. But alas..free market, democracy, capitalism, all that. :\
I see a lot of scamming like that in comics, especially for colorists. The line is usually something about getting published and having a credit in an actual book. Sometimes there is a promise of backend money, but there really isn't a backend in comics. These scammers no that there is no shortage of people who want to work in the industry and that artists aren't always business minded.
This is a contest and it's about getting noticed and winning. It's no different than being a freelance artist. Every day I'm trying to get noticed by editors, trying to keep up with what the top colorists are doing and improve what I do. It's no different than what goes on here. If we're going to take our time to create something, why not do whatever you can to win? The lofty artist who does art just for the love of it and nothing else, wouldn't be entering a contest in the first place.
Stercrazy wrote:Thank you!!
This attitude that art is just some form of expression that should be free to all is why so many people CAN'T make money doing art. Why pay a professional with 15-20 years of experience when you can get some jackass with "artistic integrity" on the interwebs to do it for free?
People have got to realize that art is every bit as marketable a skill as any other trade skill. The idea that "real" artists only do it for the love of their art is hurting the field. It's hard to express your artistic vision when you're having to crash on people's couches, beg for change, or work a dead-end wage-slave job just to get by.
Getting paid to do a job you enjoy is what everyone should strive for. Anybody preaching against that is full of it. Nobody asks a lawyer to work for free, so why would you ask an artist to?
The real problem is there are so many young artists who are just willing to give it away for free. By the time they wise up to what's going on, there's a fresh batch just waiting to give it away too.
DianaSprinkle wrote:Yes, all of that would be great, if this (SHIRT WOOT) wasn't a contest. I'm ecstatically happy to get the replies and comments and votes I am getting. But IT'S A CONTEST. One that ties up my art for 2 months.
If I was posting this to my blog I could also be selling the art in my store. That might be nice, right?
I value my art. I think I should get paid to make it. You'll note I still make it anyway and I post it for free. BUT let me tell you getting paid to do this stuff, that's what I want. I don't think I should give my art away for nothing because you think that's what makes art pure. No, that's what makes artists poor and sad.
Being able to make art is a skill that should be rewarded. I don't think I deserve to win or something. But I'm trying my best. If I joke around about getting lost in the crowd it's just my way off blowing off steam.
If you think people shouldn't do art for money then that's great, noble but that's exactly, EXACTLY, how scam people make young artists work for nothing. "If you really were an artist you'd do it for free because you love it. That's what a real artists does because they love it."
In other news... Threadless is Threadless IF they get back to me that won't effect this contest at all. Though it would make me very happy. =D
Sorry to dump on you but cheese and rice, it constantly sounds like you just want artists to starve for trying to win a contest.
Well, if you word it like that, I do. Because this should not be your only source of income.
I have NEVER said that artists should not get paid for their work, however. That is ignorant and foolish. Why would I support anything here at all if I didn't think people should make money off their art? Because if something I support wins, they're profiting off it.
There is, however, a HUGE difference between profiting off your work and working solely for profit. And the reason for that is because it is in a creative field. But even in non-creative fields, if you are a retail clerk and you just clock in and clock out to make a buck, you shouldn't get a raise. People who suck it up and put their heart into it, weak as the job may be, get that promotion. In business, it's the same... you're not going to get the best office and the best promotions if you only punch in/punch out. And here's the real world thing: you can pander to your boss all you want, but if you are not a good worker, you still run the risk of being let go.
As an artist or a designer, what motivated you to become one? The money? That's laughable. So why now? Because you're broke? Then get a non-art job. This is a crappy economy. People with top-tier jobs and vast education aren't employed anywhere, let alone their own field. Suck it up. You can always do art. You shouldn't sacrifice it for profit.
If you do art, and someone wishes to have it, you make money. That is how it is and how it should be. If you don't like their offer, that's fine. You call the shots. But if all you are doing is pandering to someone else's desire, you're not being creative and you're hardly being artistic. Do it for you, and you'll appreciate the payouts all the more. I've heard many a designer 'round here upset that, of all their pieces, their worst was the one that printed. I know many people who are truly most proud of certain designs, most of which never win. I know many designers here who truly put themselves into every piece. If you can honestly say you'd be as happy winning as you would be winning with something you cared about creating, then I have to truly question your motivation.
This is a contest, yes. But it's a contest like a baseball game or a dog race. It's a competition. That's why it's a derby: a race, if you will. The best horse wins. The best team wins. And enhancing your performance is considered illegal in such competitions, isn't it? The best work should win. not the work with the most fans (can you imagine what that would mean for a red sox/yankees series? whoever got home advantage most would take it every time). Not the most popular work (yeah, I'm sure Michael Jordan's team should have won every game and every title when he played basketball). The best work. If you are a true athlete, you're bummed by losing, but you're going to improve your skill, and keep training, and eventually someday you will. If you go into the next contest elbowing and tripping and fouling just to make your team win, you are no athlete.
And a designer who is more concerned about a win than with playing the best they can in a contest... doing the best work, the most honest work, from ideas that are truly quality and interesting and creative... people who would prefer the money are not worthy of being called artists. And while I would love to see every true artist make millions, I would prefer to never see a single piece done more for money than for love of art make a cent.
odysseyroc wrote:I see a lot of scamming like that in comics, especially for colorists. The line is usually something about getting published and having a credit in an actual book. Sometimes there is a promise of backend money, but there really isn't a backend in comics. These scammers no that there is no shortage of people who want to work in the industry and that artists aren't always business minded.
This is a contest and it's about getting noticed and winning. It's no different than being a freelance artist. Every day I'm trying to get noticed by editors, trying to keep up with what the top colorists are doing and improve what I do. It's no different than what goes on here. If we're going to take our time to create something, why not do whatever you can to win? The lofty artist who does art just for the love of it and nothing else, wouldn't be entering a contest in the first place.
So you either only work for money, or you never work for money?
There is a middle ground, obviously. You can create honestly and still want to profit from it. But it's a matter of not compromising. It's a matter of STANDING OUT, as you say, by being original. By being special. By being good. That is how you deserve your rise to fame, your profit from your art... you make it all about you, and you find people who connect to the honesty of who you are. You don't go forcefeed people what you think they want. Then you're just a nobody who can draw things. Find something to stand for artistically that IS YOU. And then people will either want it or not. and if they do, you make money.
But when it comes down to one side or the other? Simple fact: if you're not doing it for money at all, that is WAY more respectable than only doing it for money. It's obviously a meaningless black-and-white for this site, but it is the case.
AdderXYU wrote:Well, if you word it like that, I do. Because this should not be your only source of income.
I have NEVER said that artists should not get paid for their work, however. That is ignorant and foolish. Why would I support anything here at all if I didn't think people should make money off their art? Because if something I support wins, they're profiting off it.
There is, however, a HUGE difference between profiting off your work and working solely for profit. And the reason for that is because it is in a creative field. But even in non-creative fields, if you are a retail clerk and you just clock in and clock out to make a buck, you shouldn't get a raise. People who suck it up and put their heart into it, weak as the job may be, get that promotion. In business, it's the same... you're not going to get the best office and the best promotions if you only punch in/punch out. And here's the real world thing: you can pander to your boss all you want, but if you are not a good worker, you still run the risk of being let go.
As an artist or a designer, what motivated you to become one? The money? That's laughable. So why now? Because you're broke? Then get a non-art job. This is a crappy economy. People with top-tier jobs and vast education aren't employed anywhere, let alone their own field. Suck it up. You can always do art. You shouldn't sacrifice it for profit.
If you do art, and someone wishes to have it, you make money. That is how it is and how it should be. If you don't like their offer, that's fine. You call the shots. But if all you are doing is pandering to someone else's desire, you're not being creative and you're hardly being artistic. Do it for you, and you'll appreciate the payouts all the more. I've heard many a designer 'round here upset that, of all their pieces, their worst was the one that printed. I know many people who are truly most proud of certain designs, most of which never win. I know many designers here who truly put themselves into every piece. If you can honestly say you'd be as happy winning as you would be winning with something you cared about creating, then I have to truly question your motivation.
This is a contest, yes. But it's a contest like a baseball game or a dog race. It's a competition. That's why it's a derby: a race, if you will. The best horse wins. The best team wins. And enhancing your performance is considered illegal in such competitions, isn't it? The best work should win. not the work with the most fans (can you imagine what that would mean for a red sox/yankees series? whoever got home advantage most would take it every time). Not the most popular work (yeah, I'm sure Michael Jordan's team should have won every game and every title when he played basketball). The best work. If you are a true athlete, you're bummed by losing, but you're going to improve your skill, and keep training, and eventually someday you will. If you go into the next contest elbowing and tripping and fouling just to make your team win, you are no athlete.
And a designer who is more concerned about a win than with playing the best they can in a contest... doing the best work, the most honest work, from ideas that are truly quality and interesting and creative... people who would prefer the money are not worthy of being called artists. And while I would love to see every true artist make millions, I would prefer to never see a single piece done more for money than for love of art make a cent.
Your "logic" continues to completely blow me away. It's sickening to me as a professional and as someone who has loved nothing more than doing art since I could hold a pencil.
Do you really think that people here are only here to please you stylistically? Do you really think your opinions of these submissions is the only way they should be deemed WORTHY? Yes, this thing is called a derby, but it's NOT a race. A race is physical. Art is subjective, it affects the viewers all differently, which is why there is so much art in the world in so many styles, so there's something for everyone. You may not like cute, but I tell you what, go tell the guys at Pixar that they're work is worthless because it's a) cute, and b) rakes in cash like mad. You just seem to think anything that doesnt fit what you like is carp. I don't like plenty of stuff here, but I certainly don't see the need to go insult that person's work just to let them know that. They put in the time, they put in the work, why should I carp on them for that?? Someone else will undoubtedly love their work! Just because I don't like it doesnt make it any less worthy, otherwise I'd say I had a damned big God complex goin on...
I can't beleive you would have us all STARVE in the streets or work at a taco joint rather than provide artwork that only YOU deem worthwhile...oh, and for FREE.
I spit on your logic and I find you a walking insult to all artists. How dare you suggest that none of us are doing our best here simply because we do want to win. We want to win, yes, but most of us are doing our damned best out here, busting our chops so that somebody here will LIKE us!!!! If we don't win, fine, but FORUM TROLLS like you going around INSULTING other artists and submissions in completely unrelated threads does NOT add to our fondness for the work. Critiquing is one thing, but all you do is spew your gross feelings and twisted viewpoints all over everyone in this competition. *I love how you walzed over to my thread just to carp on Seki's compliment to me.* What are you 8 yrs old????? It's completely and utterly uncalled for, and NOBODY likes it or appreciates what you do here.
You slither around on TSHIRT sites all day and cause problems for people. Then you tell US to be PURE. I hope someday someone makes you bust your backbone for free, then poops on your efforts to do your best. I hope it makes you feel as BAD as you make US feel. Disgusting. You make this no fun for any of us, despite that we're doing what we love.
AdderXYU wrote:Well, if you word it like that, I do. Because this should not be your only source of income.
I have NEVER said that artists should not get paid for their work, however. That is ignorant and foolish. Why would I support anything here at all if I didn't think people should make money off their art? Because if something I support wins, they're profiting off it.
There is, however, a HUGE difference between profiting off your work and working solely for profit. And the reason for that is because it is in a creative field. But even in non-creative fields, if you are a retail clerk and you just clock in and clock out to make a buck, you shouldn't get a raise. People who suck it up and put their heart into it, weak as the job may be, get that promotion. In business, it's the same... you're not going to get the best office and the best promotions if you only punch in/punch out. And here's the real world thing: you can pander to your boss all you want, but if you are not a good worker, you still run the risk of being let go.
As an artist or a designer, what motivated you to become one? The money? That's laughable. So why now? Because you're broke? Then get a non-art job. This is a crappy economy. People with top-tier jobs and vast education aren't employed anywhere, let alone their own field. Suck it up. You can always do art. You shouldn't sacrifice it for profit.
If you do art, and someone wishes to have it, you make money. That is how it is and how it should be. If you don't like their offer, that's fine. You call the shots. But if all you are doing is pandering to someone else's desire, you're not being creative and you're hardly being artistic. Do it for you, and you'll appreciate the payouts all the more. I've heard many a designer 'round here upset that, of all their pieces, their worst was the one that printed. I know many people who are truly most proud of certain designs, most of which never win. I know many designers here who truly put themselves into every piece. If you can honestly say you'd be as happy winning as you would be winning with something you cared about creating, then I have to truly question your motivation.
This is a contest, yes. But it's a contest like a baseball game or a dog race. It's a competition. That's why it's a derby: a race, if you will. The best horse wins. The best team wins. And enhancing your performance is considered illegal in such competitions, isn't it? The best work should win. not the work with the most fans (can you imagine what that would mean for a red sox/yankees series? whoever got home advantage most would take it every time). Not the most popular work (yeah, I'm sure Michael Jordan's team should have won every game and every title when he played basketball). The best work. If you are a true athlete, you're bummed by losing, but you're going to improve your skill, and keep training, and eventually someday you will. If you go into the next contest elbowing and tripping and fouling just to make your team win, you are no athlete.
And a designer who is more concerned about a win than with playing the best they can in a contest... doing the best work, the most honest work, from ideas that are truly quality and interesting and creative... people who would prefer the money are not worthy of being called artists. And while I would love to see every true artist make millions, I would prefer to never see a single piece done more for money than for love of art make a cent.
Way to insult the artist there dude.
Basically you're saying that she's only a good artist if she panders to you, but if she does so to anybody else, she's "not a good worker" and should just quit? Nice attitude.
As for her only being in this for money and not putting out her best effort, I can honestly say that's a load of horse-pucky. Knowing the artist personally, I can guarantee you that she's not compromising any principles here. She hasn't submitted ANY artwork here that is any different than a piece she would do for fun.
D is NOT cranking out garbage here. She WOULDN'T crank out garbage even if somebody told her she should. You've got a lot of nerve to intimate that by not doing stuff that appeals to you, she would somehow be doing so. As much as you may think so, you do not represent all of Woot.
As for "fixing the race"? What are you smoking? There's a GIANT difference between doping a horse up or taking steroids and playing to your audience. It's not like there's a Woot Handbook with guidelines on what everyone here likes and dislikes. People do a design that they think has a chance of being printed. That's only smart.
First and foremost, Woot is a BUSINESS. They are not a gallery for people like you to admire fine artwork and comment on the "integrity" of the piece. These votes are theoretically purchases. People are basically saying "I like this shirt design and would buy it". Likewise, everybody entering this contest is entering with the intent that their design should get printed. There's not a damned thing wrong with trying to increase the chances of it doing so.
Stercrazy wrote:
First and foremost, Woot is a BUSINESS. They are not a gallery for people like you to admire fine artwork and comment on the "integrity" of the piece. These votes are theoretically purchases. People are basically saying "I like this shirt design and would buy it". Likewise, everybody entering this contest is entering with the intent that their design should get printed. There's not a damned thing wrong with trying to increase the chances of it doing so.
Apparently though, my friend, we should all be making giant DaVinci replicas on canvas and living out of our cars, we shouldn't want to WIN, should we? That would be horrible of us. We should all be here to NOT win! (makes crazy face and assembles Mona Lisa out of macaroni noodles and ramen cups)
AdderXYU wrote:So you either only work for money, or you never work for money?
There is a middle ground, obviously. You can create honestly and still want to profit from it. But it's a matter of not compromising. It's a matter of STANDING OUT, as you say, by being original. By being special. By being good. That is how you deserve your rise to fame, your profit from your art... you make it all about you, and you find people who connect to the honesty of who you are. You don't go forcefeed people what you think they want. Then you're just a nobody who can draw things. Find something to stand for artistically that IS YOU. And then people will either want it or not. and if they do, you make money.
But when it comes down to one side or the other? Simple fact: if you're not doing it for money at all, that is WAY more respectable than only doing it for money. It's obviously a meaningless black-and-white for this site, but it is the case.
I'm from the school of "never work for free". I guarantee you that even the people as you see as being in it only for the money have piles of sketchbooks and are constantly drawing for their own amusement or to amuse their friends. But I'd never give away something that somebody else is going to benefit from
Most of my friends are "commercial" artists and I can tell you it's not really a job that you can do just for the money. The deadlines are crazy, the work is tedious and work can be hard to come by. If I didn't love it, I'd be working a regular job by now. I'm looking at potentially spending 15 hours a day in front of my computer this next week to meet my deadlines.
Even when I get an assignment that I hate, I don't put anything less than my best into it. Working in comics, my name is printed in each issue I color and I don't want to be associated with anything that isn't up to a certain standard. For the commercial artist, the art isn't just about the drawing, it's about problem solving and meeting deadlines. That's something that a lot of us also take great pride in. I'd say there's a lot more that goes into than most outside of the business imagine.
I actually appreciate the fact that you are trying to stand up for what you believe is right in art. I just think that your view of what is or isn't art is kind of narrow. I also think that you don't really understand the commercial artist's perspective.
odysseyroc wrote:I'm from the school of "never work for free". I guarantee you that even the people as you see as being in it only for the money have piles of sketchbooks and are constantly drawing for their own amusement or to amuse their friends. But I'd never give away something that somebody else is going to benefit from
Most of my friends are "commercial" artists and I can tell you it's not really a job that you can do just for the money. The deadlines are crazy, the work is tedious and work can be hard to come by. If I didn't love it, I'd be working a regular job by now. I'm looking at potentially spending 15 hours a day in front of my computer this next week to meet my deadlines.
Even when I get an assignment that I hate, I don't put anything less than my best into it. Working in comics, my name is printed in each issue I color and I don't want to be associated with anything that isn't up to a certain standard. For the commercial artist, the art isn't just about the drawing, it's about problem solving and meeting deadlines. That's something that a lot of us also take great pride in. I'd say there's a lot more that goes into than most outside of the business imagine.
I actually appreciate the fact that you are trying to stand up for what you believe is right in art. I just think that your view of what is or isn't art is kind of narrow. I also think that you don't really understand the commercial artist's perspective.
Seriously. Don't care. Because this is not a venue for commercial artists. This is a venue for creativity. You do your commercial Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966) all day. Why the hell would you come here and do the same? That suggests to me that one can only design for someone else, instead of having their own ideas. It tells me that someone's worth as an artist is dictated by popularity and profit. That is not art.
If you have an art job, and do client work, and put everything you have into that, awesome. Your clients get awesome work, then, don't they? But if you don't sit down at home and just create, then what good is it? Sure, fine, take that work and make money off it. But at least take the time to create it honestly, without having money be the reason you put pen to paper. Because yeah, I don't think people deserve respect if their entire purpose for creating is only money. You could have picked a million other jobs. All you're doing is standing in the way of the people who ARE honest, and want to sell their own worldview, not just profit off a client. If that's not you, awesome. But that is how I see it. there are millions of artists, and I'd rather see Joe At The Taco Stand who does amazing prints in his free time make a grand than someone who only ever creates with a paycheck in mind. That's the guy who has really fought for his skill, and that's the guy I want to see it pay off for.
What you're all missing is that I'd love nothing more for every artist to make money off their work. don't give work away. But how does that translate into "don't post work that isn't client-based at woot"? You post it here, you make a grand if it prints. It is still yours if it does not. You can sell it elsewhere. But do you really think that what sells so well at woot is profitable anywhere else? THAT is giving work away. Create something you believe in, and you'll always have work that speaks to who you are, even if it doesn't find a client right away. Create for a client, and you have unused client work if they decline it.
Your day to day does not interest me. When you come to woot, it is not your job. Don't treat it like one.
AdderXYU wrote:Seriously. Don't care. Because this is not a venue for commercial artists. This is a venue for creativity. You do your commercial Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966) all day. Why the hell would you come here and do the same? That suggests to me that one can only design for someone else, instead of having their own ideas. It tells me that someone's worth as an artist is dictated by popularity and profit. That is not art.
If you have an art job, and do client work, and put everything you have into that, awesome. Your clients get awesome work, then, don't they? But if you don't sit down at home and just create, then what good is it? Sure, fine, take that work and make money off it. But at least take the time to create it honestly, without having money be the reason you put pen to paper. Because yeah, I don't think people deserve respect if their entire purpose for creating is only money. You could have picked a million other jobs. All you're doing is standing in the way of the people who ARE honest, and want to sell their own worldview, not just profit off a client. If that's not you, awesome. But that is how I see it. there are millions of artists, and I'd rather see Joe At The Taco Stand who does amazing prints in his free time make a grand than someone who only ever creates with a paycheck in mind. That's the guy who has really fought for his skill, and that's the guy I want to see it pay off for.
Your day to day does not interest me. When you come to woot, it is not your job. Don't treat it like one.
You're not interested in anything other than your narrow view of the world. While you're here slamming people, I'll be out trying to help Joe at the Taco Stand figure how to make a living doing what he loves.
AdderXYU wrote:stuff
This IS a venue for commercial artists. If you want art for the sake of art go to DeviantArt and complain about people being impure there.
By the way, to anyone seeing this on the community thread, this wonderful rantfest recently has been brought to you by DianaSprinkle's lovely "RugRats" image. Check it out! Rugrats
bassanimation wrote:Apparently though, my friend, we should all be making giant DaVinci replicas on canvas and living out of our cars, we shouldn't want to WIN, should we? That would be horrible of us. We should all be here to NOT win! (makes crazy face and assembles Mona Lisa out of macaroni noodles and ramen cups)
You should be here to create.
Everyone wants to win. No one should ONLY want to win. That is not what this should be about.
If you enter and get fifth with something honest, you deserve it. If you enter and win with something that exists solely to sell, you deserve nothing.
If you believe that it is all or none, you don't understand art. Of any sort. Sometimes you fail. And it is better to fail all the time with attempts you're proud of than to win once with something you created only for the win.
Want to win. Come to win. But only do it on your terms, not someone else's. And if your own terms are "doing whatever will be most popular," that's someone else's terms.
AdderXYU wrote:... O.M.G.
That's a lot of "don't do what you love the way that makes you money", "do what you love how I say you should..."
You think very black and white, which does NOT help you at all. Also the world is NOT a meritocracy fantasy land that you imagine it could be if only people did what you tell them. Those with the most merit/skill/talent are constantly passed over time and time again in every job for all sorts of reason. Your business example does not work. People are promoted just for being terrible at their job so they will no longer be doing said job. You are just completely delusional on this, I'm sorry.
ALSO you don't get to decide why an artist did something because you don't like the art. Time and time again I'll see an artist TELL you why they did something and you ignore everything but the word "win" or "money" or whatever you want to hear.
Here's the thing, ANY artist with a real job will not want to make art after a long day of working. You WILL NOT get better art. Your logic is flawed. An artist CAN do art around a day job but they will still want their art to have VALUE. And in this world value can be money. You don't get to decide what an artists value is.
I told you, I don't do art just for money BUT I value my art. THESE THINGS ARE NOT CONFLICTING as much as you think they are.
I don't even know why you ask question you don't want to listen to the answers too.
xespera wrote:This IS a venue for commercial artists. If you want art for the sake of art go to DeviantArt and complain about people being impure there.
By the way, to anyone seeing this on the community thread, this wonderful rantfest recently has been brought to you by DianaSprinkle's lovely "RugRats" image. Check it out! Rugrats
Nope.
You're still wrong.
People who believe in the idea of "commercial art" are the reason art is dying. Because some of the best art isn't made with intention of selling. It's just made. And ironically, for many people, that sort of honesty is EXACTLY what they're going to want to support monetarily.
The record companies are all dying because of commercial music not resonating. They can't grasp the idea of fewer sales with higher quality. And the indie labels are the ones benefiting. They're the ones making modest but growing gains. And one can only hope that commercial art dies just as fast.
There are people here breaking their backs to make something awesome, and they're being drowned by an influx of people who would rather make a grand than do the same work.
DianaSprinkle wrote:I told you, I don't do art just for money BUT I value my art. THESE THINGS ARE NOT CONFLICTING as much as you think they are.
That's probably because you understand exactly how much hard work, heart and soul goes into doing it.
odysseyroc wrote:You're not interested in anything other than your narrow view of the world. While you're here slamming people, I'll be out trying to help Joe at the Taco Stand figure how to make a living doing what he loves.
It's my hope that Joe doesn't take your advice.
AdderXYU wrote: *More stuff, still in the lovely Rugrats
What about people who like a certain kind of art? Does it not matter that I may like some drawings more than others, and may want to reward them with money? Should I pay for art I dislike just because someone feels it is oh so special? Why can an artist not paint something for me that I want to see? Who would pay for art they hate? Your worldview is how we end up with poop in a jar being funded and people attacking the NEA ever since.
DianaSprinkle wrote:That's a lot of "don't do what you love the way that makes you money", "do what you love how I say you should..."
I don't even know why you ask question you don't want to listen to the answers too.
Nothing this guy says makes any sense. I used to like to read his comments because I thought he was genuine in his love for real art, but now I see he just wants to pick on people for not doing what he wants, how he wants, when he wants. Oh and he wants to throw verbal punches at people who DO like the stuff he doesn't like. He goes around to other people's posts and designs just to whine about things going on elsewhere on this site. As if this place is here just to provide him with his own personal art gallery. If he had any real respect for art and artists, he would not go slinging mud the way he does at all of these people who are sweating to try and do good here.
Adder doesnt respect a single person here, and let me tell you why. As soon as any of us submits something he doesnt like, he'll turn on you Then he'll make sure and go cause a kicking, fussing racket for the _duration of the derby_ in everyone's submission threads to make sure we ALL know he's so very unhappy, yes he is.
Also, I just saw a Trident commercial where people wanted to be paid in gum. Maybe this guy would consider us all artists if Woot paid everyone (including their employees) in fruit gum!
AdderXYU wrote:You should be here to create.
Everyone wants to win. No one should ONLY want to win. That is not what this should be about.
NO ONE has said they ONLY want to win! ARE YOU READING THESE COMMENTS??? Gah!
bassanimation wrote:Nothing this guy says makes any sense. I used to like to read his comments because I thought he was genuine in his love for real art, but now I see he just wants to pick on people for not doing what he wants, how he wants, when he wants. Oh and he wants to throw verbal punches at people who DO like the stuff he doesn't like. He goes around to other people's posts and designs just to whine about things going on elsewhere on this site. As if this place is here just to provide him with his own personal art gallery. If he had any real respect for art and artists, he would not go slinging mud the way he does at all of these people who are sweating to try and do good here.
Adder doesnt respect a single person here, and let me tell you why. As soon as any of us submits something he doesnt like, he'll turn on you Then he'll make sure and go cause a kicking, fussing racket for the _duration of the derby_ in everyone's submission threads to make sure we ALL know he's so very unhappy, yes he is.
Also, I just saw a Trident commercial where people wanted to be paid in gum. Maybe this guy would consider us all artists if Woot paid everyone (including their employees) in fruit gum!
HE'd just accuse you of doing it all for the love of gum. You sold your soul for some Hubba Bubba.
odysseyroc wrote:That's probably because you understand exactly how much hard work, heart and soul goes into doing it.
Me and Diana both bust our rear ends before events that we attend. We do go to do well, but what we WANT....is for people to really, really LIKE our work. The money is simply a translation of that untangible feeling we get from people who WANT to give us money for our work. Woot is no different. What these votes are, are people who WANT these designs to win. They want to give their money for these great designs. When I vote, it's because I think that person deserves the reward. I know they worked hard, I know they have things they have to pay for, I want them to take my cash and hopefully use it for something they need. 
I get the joy of supporting them, and wearing their work :D.
DianaSprinkle wrote:NO ONE has said they ONLY want to win! ARE YOU READING THESE COMMENTS??? Gah!
Reading posts is hard. It's much easier to rant on a specific ideal ad infinitum and to ignore comments to the contrary. By continuing to assert that people who only want to win are bad, he can imply you are bad regardless of what you say. It's one of the first few lessons in Trolling 101.
DianaSprinkle wrote:That's a lot of "don't do what you love the way that makes you money", "do what you love how I say you should..."
If you love it, you do it naturally. You don't care why it's done. You might even decide to never do it professionally just to keep it honest.
You think very black and white, which does NOT help you at all. Also the world is NOT a meritocracy fantasy land that you imagine it could be if only people did what you tell them. Those with the most merit/skill/talent are constantly passed over time and time again in every job for all sorts of reason. Your business example does not work. People are promoted just for being terrible at their job so they will no longer be doing said job. You are just completely delusional on this, I'm sorry.
ALSO you don't get to decide why an artist did something because you don't like the art. Time and time again I'll see an artist TELL you why they did something and you ignore everything but the word "win" or "money" or whatever you want to hear.
Here's the thing, ANY artist with a real job will not want to make art after a long day of working. You WILL NOT get better art. Your logic is flawed. An artist CAN do art around a day job but they will still want their art to have VALUE. And in this world value can be money. You don't get to decide what an artists value is.
I told you, I don't do art just for money BUT I value my art. THESE THINGS ARE NOT CONFLICTING as much as you think they are.
I don't even know why you ask question you don't want to listen to the answers too.
bassanimation wrote:Me and Diana both bust our rear ends before events that we attend. We do go to do well, but what we WANT....is for people to really, really LIKE our work. The money is simply a translation of that untangible feeling we get from people who WANT to give us money for our work. Woot is no different. What these votes are, are people who WANT these designs to win. They want to give their money for these great designs. When I vote, it's because I think that person deserves the reward. I know they worked hard, I know they have things they have to pay for, I want them to take my cash and hopefully use it for something they need.
I totally agree. You appreciate those artists hard work because you've been there. Mentally and phyiscally drained from pulling that all nighter, putting everything you had into those illustrations.
bassanimation wrote:Nothing this guy says makes any sense. I used to like to read his comments because I thought he was genuine in his love for real art, but now I see he just wants to pick on people for not doing what he wants, how he wants, when he wants. Oh and he wants to throw verbal punches at people who DO like the stuff he doesn't like. He goes around to other people's posts and designs just to whine about things going on elsewhere on this site. As if this place is here just to provide him with his own personal art gallery. If he had any real respect for art and artists, he would not go slinging mud the way he does at all of these people who are sweating to try and do good here.
But what is your definition of "do good"?
I think you did excellent with your xtreme park design. It got 5th and an HM, didn't it? That's what it is about. Go in. Create something from yourself. Do the best you can. Win or lose. Go again.
If "doing good" to you means securing the most votes, you're doing it wrong. If "doing good" means securing as many votes as you can from work you truly believe in, you're doing it right. So which are you in it for?
Adder doesnt respect a single person here, and let me tell you why. As soon as any of us submits something he doesnt like, he'll turn on you Then he'll make sure and go cause a kicking, fussing racket for the _duration of the derby_ in everyone's submission threads to make sure we ALL know he's so very unhappy, yes he is.
Also, I just saw a Trident commercial where people wanted to be paid in gum. Maybe this guy would consider us all artists if Woot paid everyone (including their employees) in fruit gum!
AdderXYU wrote:Yeah. And no designers respect me back. None at all. You've got me there. I'm glad you've learned it in only a month... some designers actually respected me far longer before it clicked. Man, I'd hate to live in a world where designers and artists believed that their art was worth more as true inspiration than customer manipulation. Then people might actually respect me. That'd be horrible and odd, since no one does.
Once again Adder, you really do have to pick between insulting artists and having artists listen to and respect you.
I'm sorry you feel so marginalized here, and that none of the designers like your feedback. I would much rather you and the designers were able to get along on more friendly terms. Have you considered phrasing things more kindly? I know, I know, it can be tricky not to call people ignorant or start a post with "You are wrong", but by saying things like "I feel" or "I don't see it that way" you can say what you want to say without being so contradictory. You'll get to say your opinion and they'll get to listen. It's like the perfect combo of joy for everyone involved.
odysseyroc wrote:While you're here slamming people, I'll be out trying to help Joe at the Taco Stand figure how to make a living doing what he loves.
I hope you're not trying helping him for free. Because that would mean you failed your "school of never work for free."
Copo wrote:I hope you're not trying helping him for free. Because that would mean you failed your "school of never work for free."
Since when is helping somebody find a job work?
He's an ARTIST, not a job consultant.
Besides he's not say never do ANYTHING for free, he's saying never let anybody try and tell you there's anything wrong with wanting compensation for your work. Which is the position another person in this thread seems to be espousing.
AdderXYU wrote:
Want to win. Come to win. But only do it on your terms, not someone else's. And if your own terms are "doing whatever will be most popular," that's someone else's terms.
I have a lot of respect for artists who stick to their guns and design things the way they want to, despite what other people say.
I also have a lot of respect for artists who accept input from outsiders and are willing to take a second look and change their art and resubmit it. But only if they believe the input is valid. Art by committee is going to please no one.
It's up to the individual artists to decide which input is valid for them, and which input would take their art to a place they don't want it to go.
If someone is drawing something they think will be popular, while simultaneously hitting themselves over the head with a hammer because they hate themselves for drawing these things, that's a problem.
But if someone is drawing something popular because they LIKE drawing that sort of thing, I don't see it as a problem. If a lot of average people like something, it stands to reason that a number of artists will also like that style. Just because it's popular, it doesn't automatically mean they're selling their souls by creating it. They should draw what they like, as you said.
There are art forms that I'm not a fan of. There are shirts I would never buy. But I don't think those are wrong, bad, invalid, or useless. They're just not my personal taste. But I don't mind if those styles win.
In this derby setting, the ONLY art that I find personally repugnant is when someone is completely lazy in creating it. Manipulated photos and clip art collages fall into that category. Most of those don't make it through rejections, which is as it should be.
Stercrazy wrote:Since when is helping somebody find a job work?
He's an ARTIST, not a job consultant.
Besides he's not say never do ANYTHING for free, he's saying never let anybody try and tell you there's anything wrong with wanting compensation for your work. Which is the position another person in this thread seems to be espousing.
That's correct. I wouldn't expect my mechanic to fix my car for free, and he shouldn't expect me to design his business cards or logo for free.
As far as helping other people being "working for free", that's ridiculous. If I see an opportunity to help a friend get connected with some work, I'll try to make it happen, they do the same for me. If I can give some advice to a young artist trying to break in to comics or give a crit, I'll do. I'm not running around town being an art rep, I'm just trying to give a little something back.
DianaSprinkle wrote:NO ONE has said they ONLY want to win! ARE YOU READING THESE COMMENTS??? Gah!
i am really puzzled by this entire exchange. you know why adder is here talking to your group specifically? its because bassanimation said last week in her cat design that she sees what wins here and she is trying a stab at it. to which adder responded, if you do that, you are no better than the people here who draw the most hate from the community. what he wants is simple: do good work. do good, inspired, thoughtful, well designed work. he doesnt care if he doesnt like it. we wants to be able to respect it. it is his opinion that good work comes from a desire to create art for arts sake, not a desire to make money. and im inclined to agree with him that a desire to make money does not produce good art.
just because the three or four of you are ganging up on him and all agreeing with each other does not make you right. bass and diana, i agree with adder that you both do really good work. and i am with adder fearing that you will let the quality of your work slide in the interest of making money. he is right, you all can make a serious change here. a few artists working together can change the tide of woot. and all you have to do to "work together" is agree not to make work soley in the pursuit of money. dont sell out. dont pander. then you can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it is something you would be proud to have in your portfolio, something you would be proud to put your name on.
i guess what i am asking here is to work in the interest of your own artistic future, not in the interest of money. and in doing that you can also unwittingly work in the interest of the community's future too.
and youre wrong about artists not respecting adder. nearly all of the top ranking artists respect him here and for simple reasons. he does not compromise his ideals. he judges the piece not the artist (just look at ramyb's submission in the world hunger derby). and he really does love and support the world of t shirts. he would proudly support a design he doesnt like as long as he thinks it is good work. and inthe same vein, he would slam his favorite artist if they submitted bad or pandering work. atleast thats what ive seen of him in the half a year ive been a member and the year before that i spent lurking on my girlfriends account
orzine wrote:i am really puzzled by this entire exchange. you know why adder is here talking to your group specifically? its because bassanimation said last week in her cat design that she sees what wins here and she is trying a stab at it. to which adder responded, if you do that, you are no better than the people here who draw the most hate from the community. what he wants is simple: do good work. do good, inspired, thoughtful, well designed work. he doesnt care if he doesnt like it. we wants to be able to respect it. it is his opinion that good work comes from a desire to create art for arts sake, not a desire to make money. and im inclined to agree with him that a desire to make money does not produce good art.
just because the three or four of you are ganging up on him and all agreeing with each other does not make you right. bass and diana, i agree with adder that you both do really good work. and i am with adder fearing that you will let the quality of your work slide in the interest of making money. he is right, you all can make a serious change here. a few artists working together can change the tide of woot. and all you have to do to "work together" is agree not to make work soley in the pursuit of money. dont sell out. dont pander. then you can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it is something you would be proud to have in your portfolio, something you would be proud to put your name on.
i guess what i am asking here is to work in the interest of your own artistic future, not in the interest of money. and in doing that you can also unwittingly work in the interest of the community's future too.
and youre wrong about artists not respecting adder. nearly all of the top ranking artists respect him here and for simple reasons. he does not compromise his ideals. he judges the piece not the artist (just look at ramyb's submission in the world hunger derby). and he really does love and support the world of t shirts. he would proudly support a design he doesnt like as long as he thinks it is good work. and inthe same vein, he would slam his favorite artist if they submitted bad or pandering work. atleast thats what ive seen of him in the half a year ive been a member and the year before that i spent lurking on my girlfriends account
She ALSO said that the design last week was a joke and that she didn't expect it get as many votes as it did or to get anywhere close to the fog. AND she said she did the image her way and didn't as you would say "work solely in the pursuit of money."
I am not somebodies poster child. I am an artist, I am a person, I have feelings.
If Adder really feels this way then HE needs to be MUCH more clear on it. Right now he comes out and vomits words on to a comment box for anyone he thinks isn't doing what he believes. Quickly getting nasty and mean. I'm not down with that. We are not pawns in some war on commercial art we are people entering a contest most of us hoping to do well and win.
His view on art is way too limited. Good art can come from many places not just the pure place in an artists heart. Some artists only do good art by trying to get money, some only do good art based on joking around, some only at a job. ALL of these are just as valid. There are many artists who's only goal in life is to draw Spiderman or work on Star Wars. They don't want to do pure art for themselves they want to make the best Spiderman they can. That's not a bad thing. Artists are all not some single cell organism and we don't do things the same way, one piece of advice isn't going to work for all of us.
Also his current argument is too close to people who scam artists into doing art for free. He needs to be more clear and stop just ignoring what others write.
I didn't comment that artists didn't respect Adder, Adder commented that.
Look I'm glad that you guys like my stuff and think I should be pure of purpose, but really YOU DON'T know why I'm doing the art I do. I could be doing it right now for all of the wrong reasons... I'm not but how would you even tell?
orzine wrote:...a lot of stuff without understanding what really happened...
None of these artists have compromised their ideals. They all post what they like and Adder came into bass's thread and called her ignorant, wrong, and a panderer. He's latched onto this group as one he wants to bully into a particular art style over another because he feels money is the only reason they draw one way or another.
There was a comment BassAnimation made in passing that she wanted to find out what people here liked. Not that she was drawing only what others wanted, not that she wanted to sell out, but that she wanted to draw a combo of what she likes and what woot likes.
Adder latched onto that, flamed again and again, and insulted people every step of the way. Yes, you want them to draw some certain style. Guess what, it's something they're going to draw anyways. These artists have had no shortage of contributions to the derbies across a wide variety. But calling them sellouts, panderers, or ignorant, is not going to make them sympathetic them to your cause.
Oh, and Adder was the one who keeps QQing that everyone hates him. All I did was suggest how he can turn things around.
At this point, I would really suggest future complaints regarding art purity and this whole mess be taken to PMs. This thread has really jumped the shark away from how cool an image this is, and into some kind of diatribe on artistic principle.
Re: Rugrats
I just want to repeat that I think this is a beautiful illustration. Let us know if you print this somewhere else.
xazothia wrote:I just want to repeat that I think this is a beautiful illustration. Let us know if you print this somewhere else.
Oh yeah, no problem. I'll make a list, if you'd like to be notified when/if it gets printed elsewhere leave a comment saying you want to be added.
I was hoping for some sort of spike in votes at some point but I think I'm way too new/unknown for that to happen. =D I'm still crossing my fingers.
Thanks everyone for all the nice comments and the discussion, even if we don't agree.
DianaSprinkle wrote:Oh yeah, no problem. I'll make a list, if you'd like to be notified when/if it gets printed elsewhere leave a comment saying you want to be added.
Please put me on the list. I love your designs.
Re: Rugrats
That is SO cool! The thumbnail preview does not do it justice. The design is so very pretty! I really want a shirt of this!
nuttycrew wrote:That is SO cool! The thumbnail preview does not do it justice. The design is so very pretty! I really want a shirt of this!
LOL, I tell you, I'm cursed at picking thumbnails. CURSED... I'm so glad you like it. =D
amberdod wrote:Please put me on the list. I love your designs.
Please put me on your list too! I think your designs are beautifully drawn and intelligent. You've got the whole Kit-N-Caboodle! Now if you could draw that....
