Re: Twin Dragons
I thought of this design from the two derby when I saw the theme and was excited by the chance to rework it. I like how the original was structured, but wanted to make it much more detailed and generally better looking, so redrew it completely and tried to adjust things based on critiques of the original.
My hand still hurts from gridding and drawing scales for hours :P
ramyb wrote:I thought of this design from the two derby when I saw the theme and was excited by the chance to rework it. I like how the original was structured, but wanted to make it much more detailed and generally better looking, so redrew it completely and tried to adjust things based on critiques of the original.
My hand still hurts from gridding and drawing scales for hours :P
Well, in my opinion, this is definitely an improvement over the original, it's much more crisp and clean (which is nice). So good job on that Ramy.
That said, I think it's still quite similar to your previous entry. I suspect it'll pass muster with the Rejectionator, but for my own personal taste it's too much like the last one to be considered "significantly changed". The positions/colors of the dragons haven't changed at all and the concept is exactly the same as before. So although it may have been completely redrawn and is now a much cleaner design overeall, it's essentially the same thing all over again.
Or at least, that's how I see it, others may disagree, and that's fine by me.
Re: Twin Dragons
am i the only one who immediately thought of the red & blue dragon metaphor from "avatar: the last airbender"? i LOVE that show. and this shirt.
When I saw this, I couldn't help but sigh. I admit, it looks a lot better than before, but still. A resub isn't really doing it for me.
Re: Twin Dragons
I really like this but I am afraid it has to much of a double dragon look to it and it may get rejected.
Re: Twin Dragons
Amazing work!
Re: Twin Dragons
There's that glow effect again! oh ramyb, you never let us down!
I do like this although it's a little cliche' to say the least...
ramyb wrote:I thought of this design from the two derby when I saw the theme and was excited by the chance to rework it. I like how the original was structured, but wanted to make it much more detailed and generally better looking, so redrew it completely and tried to adjust things based on critiques of the original.
My hand still hurts from gridding and drawing scales for hours :P
I actually liked the stylized look of the original better, but you do what you gotta do to get around a silly rule.
IMO a good shirt shouldn't be banned just because it failed to win a different Derby.
The details are much better on this one, but it's still a little too similar to the first one. I think there really isn't enough changes to make it slide past rejection.
Re: Twin Dragons
I do see how it is different than the previous entry and I like it more.
I am a little confused though by the red showing through the blue dragon's body where it crosses over the red and not showing in another spot. The red dragon seems to have a hint of blue in it too, but less noticable.
tjsynkral wrote:IMO a good shirt shouldn't be banned just because it failed to win a different Derby.
If it deserved to win the different derby, it would have gotten an HM when it was there.
mikenytola wrote:The details are much better on this one, but it's still a little too similar to the first one. I think there really isn't enough changes to make it slide past rejection.
i am honestly shocked by all the hate ramyb consistently gets here... especially since it's clearly not keeping him from getting votes. granted, i'm relatively new, so i'm not familiar with his history and where all these accusations of "copy/paste" are coming from, especially in reference to submissions other than this one. i just think it would be nice if people could focus on supporting the submissions they like instead of bashing the one they don't.
Re: Twin Dragons
I HATE RESUBS!! Come up with something new!
First thing I thought of when I saw this was mortal combat meets tron. That's a good thing.
Great design.
Re: Twin Dragons
I want to see the one before the resub! It's been snowing like crazy here (internet has been down!) and I am out of the loop!! Help 
311eons wrote:I want to see the one before the resub! It's been snowing like crazy here (internet has been down!) and I am out of the loop!! Help
I swear I've seen this somewhere before.
spilzer wrote:Well, in my opinion, this is definitely an improvement over the original, it's much more crisp and clean (which is nice). So good job on that Ramy.
That said, I think it's still quite similar to your previous entry. I suspect it'll pass muster with the Rejectionator, but for my own personal taste it's too much like the last one to be considered "significantly changed". The positions/colors of the dragons haven't changed at all and the concept is exactly the same as before. So although it may have been completely redrawn and is now a much cleaner design overeall, it's essentially the same thing all over again.
Or at least, that's how I see it, others may disagree, and that's fine by me.
I really don't understand why woot allows resubs at all. The voters didn't vote enough the first time, and woot didn't like it enough to HM it. There is no excuse for woot to want to see it again, so it shouldn't exist again.
This isn't just for Ramy... ALL resubs are cheap shots. It's one thing if someone tries a shirt from another site here, because most wooters are like the allegory of the cave, and don't know there is a world outside here, while most people at other sites know better than to browse this one. But if you're taking a piece that has already built a fanbase here and re-entering it, you are making a lazy cash-grab. And it should really be banned wholesale.
Re: Twin Dragons
This is really lovely Ramy. Many of us were admiring the details here, as this thing is just crazy complex. Id go over the edge doing all those scales. Very wearable design, and good job on the reworks!
Re: Twin Dragons
This design is not significantly different from the one submitted in the "Two" Derby. The lines are a bit cleaned up, and the mouths are moved a bit. Uhh, yay?
Other artists can, and do, consistently have their slightly-modified resubs rejected by Woot. RamyB does not appear to have that problem.
Just like the other design, this one is fairly weak. From the shirt comp, the placement looks really awkward for females, as the lower dragon will lie under the chest. The detail on the dragons is uninteresting. There is some hint of motion here, rare for a RamyB design (which is a plus), but it still falls short of being dynamic. The dragons feel flat against the shirt.
Just as before, the shading is totally off. No consistent light source can be created to justify the shadows. In fact, it looks like no light source was considered when the body shadows were created, and a flat bevel of some kind was used down the width of the dragon's body. The center is dark, and the edges are light, all the way around, and for both dragons. Even though their bodies curve and twist, the shading doesn't. Okay, it moves slightly, but hardly near enough to conform to the lay of the bodies.
On top of all that, this is a generic dragon shirt. Why are there badly drawn Chinese dragons on the shirt? Because they're dragons. That's where they belong, on shirts, or something. Why are they sorta firey and icy? Because fire and ice go with Chinese dragons, right? The fire is the heat of strong yang energy, and the ice is the flow of strong yin energy, right? Err, no, wait, that's water, not ice. The whole point of water in the Wu Xing is that it's yielding, gentle, fluid, and infinite. Ice is none of those things.
I understand why people would vote for this design. There are people who have consistently proven that this sort of motionless, badly (and quickly) drawn clipart interests them.
What I don't understand is why someone would want to actually wear it in public.
To each his own, I guess.
xazothia wrote:http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=34048
Thanks, dude.
and yeah...same old thing to me, too. yawn...
AdderXYU wrote:I really don't understand why woot allows resubs at all. The voters didn't vote enough the first time, and woot didn't like it enough to HM it. There is no excuse for woot to want to see it again, so it shouldn't exist again.
This isn't just for Ramy... ALL resubs are cheap shots. It's one thing if someone tries a shirt from another site here, because most wooters are like the allegory of the cave, and don't know there is a world outside here, while most people at other sites know better than to browse this one. But if you're taking a piece that has already built a fanbase here and re-entering it, you are making a lazy cash-grab. And it should really be banned wholesale.
Harrumph!
Re: Twin Dragons
Honestly as much as I hate 95% of what you produce along with your wonder twin, this is not bad. I'm not sure it has changed enough from the original or not, but that is not my decision. I do, however, refuse to support you, even on a good shirt, because of all the awful, lazy designs I have seen you submit, and rocket to the top of the fog with. You don't need my help to win, or anyone else's it seems.
tjsynkral wrote:I actually liked the stylized look of the original better, but you do what you gotta do to get around a silly rule.
IMO a good shirt shouldn't be banned just because it failed to win a different Derby.
I agree with this. I have no problem with resubmission, personally.
That said, this shirt isn't my style. But it's good art, and it's not chibi, so thanks for that ramyb!
fairnymph wrote:I agree with this. I have no problem with resubmission, personally.
That said, this shirt isn't my style. But it's good art, and it's not chibi, so thanks for that ramyb!
Same. I actually prefer not seeing new things. I hate it when people push boundaries and try to be creative.
Re: Twin Dragons
Glowy. Swirly. Almost a side-placement. Same old thing.
I have to admit, though, that I appreciate that this doesn't appear to have taken 5 minutes. Even if it isn't great, at least it looks like you put some effort into it.
codywp wrote:Same. I actually prefer not seeing new things. I hate it when people push boundaries and try to be creative.
Agreed. If they wanted to see new things, they should go be an oceanographer or an astronaut or go join the Navy. I mean, c'mon, the world is already mapped, people! Seriously.
Re: Twin Dragons
AWESOME
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Twin Dragons
Personally, the whole red-and-blue dragon thing reminds me of my boyfriend's Axe deodorant. I really like the details and the shapes (and yes, the glow) in this shirt, but I've seen too many blue and red dragons. As well intended as the sentiment behind them is, I feel its been overdone. I think I'd like it better in different colors.
Re: Twin Dragons
Every time I see your illustrations, I cringe at mine. Awesome work, one of my fave designers out there.
Anne Geddes' Zodiacs
Re: Twin Dragons
While I'm not a fan of your usual stuff Ramyb; cute animals, glowing effects, and rehashing the same ideas over and over...
This is better than your original and looks like you put some effort into it.
ramyb wrote:I thought of this design from the two derby when I saw the theme and was excited by the chance to rework it. I like how the original was structured, but wanted to make it much more detailed and generally better looking, so redrew it completely and tried to adjust things based on critiques of the original.
My hand still hurts from gridding and drawing scales for hours :P
ramyb, this is a great design. I saw the previous one and all of the hard work has really paid off for the design.
I don't get why all of the people are hating, you had a great design and you touched it up. It fits the theme. It's funny how serious people take this competition, it's for fun it doesn't determine your social status or anything. This isn't the louvre and there is no reason to criticize the submitted artwork like it is a piece that represents anything hugely significant.
Get a life and if you think you can do better submit your design and stop being a little girl. It's a good shirt and the glow effect isn't that common on the site. Personally i am tired of seeing heather grey shirts and mario designs, but it;s about the creation of the design, not what other people think.
Adam7986 wrote:
I don't get why all of the people are hating, you had a great design and you touched it up. It fits the theme. It's funny how serious people take this competition, it's for fun it doesn't determine your social status or anything.
You forgot prize money.
AZsabin wrote:You forgot prize money.
It is because money is involved that the hate is so furious. It's the ol' Green-Eyed Monster at work.
ThatsClownShoes wrote:I really like this but I am afraid it has to much of a double dragon look to it and it may get rejected.
Given that it's a resub of a previous, unrejected design, I doubt it.
Adam7986 wrote:ramyb, this is a great design. I saw the previous one and all of the hard work has really paid off for the design.
I don't get why all of the people are hating, you had a great design and you touched it up. It fits the theme. It's funny how serious people take this competition, it's for fun it doesn't determine your social status or anything. This isn't the louvre and there is no reason to criticize the submitted artwork like it is a piece that represents anything hugely significant.
Get a life and if you think you can do better submit your design and stop being a little girl. It's a good shirt and the glow effect isn't that common on the site. Personally i am tired of seeing heather grey shirts and mario designs, but it;s about the creation of the design, not what other people think.
To be perfectly honest, to a great many of the people here, it wouldn't have mattered if he had spent 48 hours making a new piece from scratch. They would still come here to pick it apart and trash-talk.
Sadly, this is a competition for money. That means that tempers can get hot. Many people feel that RamyB's string of successes is unfair. Everybody has favorite pieces here.
It's sad when you see one that you like get passed over for somebody who, in you mind, has already won enough. It doesn't matter whether the person won a decisive number of votes. It doesn't matter that the sales of the shirt afterward support the results. There will always be folks who will see it as unfair and will try to tear the person down.
I won't defend the behavior of some of the other folks here on Woot. Mostly because there is no defense for it. My suggestion is to just let it go and let your vote do the talking for you.
I often don't care for RamyB's designs, but I can usually find no significant fault with the design that supports the conclusions of others here that the designs are garbage. It simply boils down to taste.
I often will give critiques of people's work and try to provide helpful suggestions. I usually don't bother with RamyB's designs because, from an illustration and design standpoint, there's usually nothing significantly wrong with them other than niggling personal tweaks. I don't give those out, because those would be fundamental changes to the style of the artist, and it's not mine or anybody else place to try to change that. It's like critiquing somebody on their journal, and trying to tell them that you don't find the main character compelling.
Stercrazy wrote:To be perfectly honest, to a great many of the people here, it wouldn't have mattered if he had spent 48 hours making a new piece from scratch. They would still come here to pick it apart and trash-talk.
Sadly, this is a competition for money. That means that tempers can get hot. Many people feel that RamyB's string of successes is unfair. Everybody has favorite pieces here.
It's sad when you see one that you like get passed over for somebody who, in you mind, has already won enough. It doesn't matter whether the person won a decisive number of votes. It doesn't matter that the sales of the shirt afterward support the results. There will always be folks who will see it as unfair and will try to tear the person down.
I won't defend the behavior of some of the other folks here on Woot. Mostly because there is no defense for it. My suggestion is to just let it go and let your vote do the talking for you.
I often don't care for RamyB's designs, but I can usually find no significant fault with the design that supports the conclusions of others here that the designs are garbage. It simply boils down to taste.
I often will give critiques of people's work and try to provide helpful suggestions. I usually don't bother with RamyB's designs because, from an illustration and design standpoint, there's usually nothing significantly wrong with them other than niggling personal tweaks. I don't give those out, because those would be fundamental changes to the style of the artist, and it's not mine or anybody else place to try to change that. It's like critiquing somebody on their journal, and trying to tell them that you don't find the main character compelling.
nicely said
AdderXYU wrote:Besides the fact that it is foolish to imply ramy's work has "usually nothing significantly wrong," you show a glaring ignorance presuming that it is so strongly all about money. That presumes it's all about jealousy. It presumes it's all about greed. It does not take into account concerns of originality and creativity, nor on the other side concerns of boring and generic. It does not take into account the lack of respect put forth by certain "designers" every week. It ignores the lack of effort, the frequent refusal to even attempt to be on theme, the shoehorning proven vote-grabbing elements into designs that have no reason for them. And it certainly ignores the fact that the parties defended most for this are known swindlers throughout the internet. People should always have every right to be angry when people like that profit. It's giving OJ Simpson the key to the city, or wearing a Michael Vick jersey in 2010. Just because a conviction didn't come, or time has been served, doesn't make the person any less guilty, and that is one more huge reason these people are so disrespected here. As well they should be.
Can't we all just get along guys
[url=http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=39498]The Zodiac Emperor
[/url
AdderXYU wrote:Besides the fact that it is foolish to imply ramy's work has "usually nothing significantly wrong," you show a glaring ignorance presuming that it is so strongly all about money. That presumes it's all about jealousy. It presumes it's all about greed. It does not take into account concerns of originality and creativity, nor on the other side concerns of boring and generic. It does not take into account the lack of respect put forth by certain "designers" every week. It ignores the lack of effort, the frequent refusal to even attempt to be on theme, the shoehorning proven vote-grabbing elements into designs that have no reason for them. And it certainly ignores the fact that the parties defended most for this are known swindlers throughout the internet. People should always have every right to be angry when people like that profit. It's giving OJ Simpson the key to the city, or wearing a Michael Vick jersey in 2010. Just because a conviction didn't come, or time has been served, doesn't make the person any less guilty, and that is one more huge reason these people are so disrespected here. As well they should be.
The fact that I get paid to find things glaringly wrong with people's pieces shows a distinct LACK of ignorance. I went to school for 4 years to learn these things and have been utilizing these skills professionally for over 15 years. You have a rather mediocre blog about T-Shirts. DO NOT question MY abilities.
AdderXYU wrote:Besides the fact that it is foolish to imply ramy's work has "usually nothing significantly wrong," you show a glaring ignorance presuming that it is so strongly all about money. That presumes it's all about jealousy. It presumes it's all about greed. It does not take into account concerns of originality and creativity, nor on the other side concerns of boring and generic. It does not take into account the lack of respect put forth by certain "designers" every week. It ignores the lack of effort, the frequent refusal to even attempt to be on theme, the shoehorning proven vote-grabbing elements into designs that have no reason for them. And it certainly ignores the fact that the parties defended most for this are known swindlers throughout the internet. People should always have every right to be angry when people like that profit. It's giving OJ Simpson the key to the city, or wearing a Michael Vick jersey in 2010. Just because a conviction didn't come, or time has been served, doesn't make the person any less guilty, and that is one more huge reason these people are so disrespected here. As well they should be.
What, no Backstreet Boys reference this time? Shoot, I was getting used to seeing that one.
Also, it is about the money. Don't lie. Otherwise you wouldn't mention it all the time. Just look at your own words. Green-Eyed Monster has you in a deathgrip, my friend. It's human nature, but most of us keep it in check.
You also mention 'effort' all the time.
Still waiting for your entries :D.
It's pretty darn hard to do artwork every week here, within 24 hours, and take hits on the chin from people like you. Many of us don't sleep, we work ourselves so hard that our hands and shoulders are in pain, we go to our real jobs exhausted, just with the hope of doing well. (this doesnt necessarily mean winning) Meanwhile, you sit there, kicking that 'effort' word around like you know what it means.
We'll talk about effort when you're in the game. Until then, enjoy your nice cool spot on the bench. ^_^
AdderXYU wrote:Besides the fact that it is foolish to imply ramy's work has "usually nothing significantly wrong," you show a glaring ignorance presuming that it is so strongly all about money. That presumes it's all about jealousy. It presumes it's all about greed. It does not take into account concerns of originality and creativity, nor on the other side concerns of boring and generic. It does not take into account the lack of respect put forth by certain "designers" every week. It ignores the lack of effort, the frequent refusal to even attempt to be on theme, the shoehorning proven vote-grabbing elements into designs that have no reason for them. And it certainly ignores the fact that the parties defended most for this are known swindlers throughout the internet. People should always have every right to be angry when people like that profit. It's giving OJ Simpson the key to the city, or wearing a Michael Vick jersey in 2010. Just because a conviction didn't come, or time has been served, doesn't make the person any less guilty, and that is one more huge reason these people are so disrespected here. As well they should be.
I guess the mark of a good artist is being able to make stuff that's hard look easy. Even this resub has WAY more effort put into it than a novice is going to appreciate. Those scales are hand drawn. Having done that kind of stuff, I can tell you that it is not easy. It's hard work, and it takes time.
As for the quality of his work, unless you can point out the basic design principles he regularly violates, then it is YOU who are being ignorant. I see you rag on about the most balderah things that I see other artists you love do regularly. This is a personal crusade against an artist, not the artist's ability.
This moronic idea that RamyB is Public Enemy Number One is just that - moronic. I don't like win he wins all the time either, but I choose to be an adult about it. If you don't like his art, don't vote for it. Don't try and make out that your own personal vendetta against an artist you don't like is some sort of crusade for decency. The hypocrisy is so palpable that even those without noses can smell it.
Your OJ Simpson comment demonstrates your lack of understanding about how metaphor works. OJ may or may not have killed his wife, but THAT FACT has no bearing on whether he was or wasn't a good ball player.
RamyB's alleged behavior elsewhere is absolutely irrelevant to his artistic ability. If you can demonstrate a REAL instance, with evidence to back it up, of him manipulating the derby, then by all means bring it. You and I both know that there is no such evidence. If there was, he would have been banned by Woot already.
This is real life little boy, not a Punisher movie. RamyB is an artist on a T-shirt site. He is not a mob boss bent on global domination. The ends do NOT justify the means, especially if your means are libel and slander and the end is that the aforementioned artist doesn't win an internet contest. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and grow up.
marmls2m wrote:your overwhelming arrogance nullifies your ability to recognize your own ignorance. i wise man questions his own assumptions and accepts his shortcomings. a foolish man postures on the internet and show disproportionatey angry and condescending responses in defense of questionable artists.
FWIW, nobody here at woot is questioning their assumptions. 
marmls2m wrote:your overwhelming arrogance nullifies your ability to recognize your own ignorance. a wise man questions his own assumptions and accepts his shortcomings. a foolish man postures on the internet and show disproportionatey angry and condescending responses in defense of questionable artists.
I could throw that right back at you. I see a LOT more posturing on the internet by folks on that side of the fence than on my side. He questioned as to whether I knew what I was talking about. I simply responded with WHY I knew what I was talking about.
A TRULY wise man knows how to distinguish his opinions from fact, and is willing to concede points made by the other side. Make a point to me that isn't "RamyB is the devil, and here's this Encyclopedia Dramatica article that says why, and everything he does is horrible because I say it is."
Up until now I've watched idly by as folks like Adder act like armchair experts about how this art is good and this art is horrible. I've watched as they've brow-beat the artists, demeaned their efforts, and basically told anybody that didn't agree with them that they were stupid.
I have finally had enough. You have the GALL to sit here and call me arrogant but don't question the garbage coming out of the mouths of others here? I have never attacked anyone for their tastes. I have never attacked anyone for their opinions. I AM attacking people for their behavior.
My "arrogant" statement was in response to Adder's charge that I was ignorant because of the fact that I could find no legitimate artistic fault with RamyB's art. That is a fact. I rarely see any significant design principle that he has broken, and rarely any anatomical irregularity that wasn't a stylistic choice. I have a fairly extensive knowledge base to draw upon. MY JOB is to pick people's art apart so that I can help them improve it.
A lot of people here don't seem to understand the difference between a critique and criticism. Telling somebody "This is more of the same terrible garbage that you always do" is not a critique. It adds nothing to the discussion and doesn't help the artist improve in the slightest. "This is what looks wrong on the piece, and here's what you could do to fix it" IS a a useful critique.
Arrogance is coming on these forums and trash-talking the artists and bad-mouthing their efforts because you have "the Internets" and an opinion. I got news for you. Opinions are like anuses. Everybody has one, and most of them stink. I'm not trying to change anybody's opinion here. I'm simply asking that people NOT act like giant DOUCHebuckets.
Stercrazy wrote:I could throw that right back at you. I see a LOT more posturing on the internet by folks on that side of the fence than on my side. He questioned as to whether I knew what I was talking about. I simply responded with WHY I knew what I was talking about.
A TRULY wise man knows how to distinguish his opinions from fact, and is willing to concede points made by the other side. Make a point to me that isn't "RamyB is the devil, and here's this Encyclopedia Dramatica article that says why, and everything he does is horrible because I say it is."
Up until now I've watched idly by as folks like Adder act like armchair experts about how this art is good and this art is horrible. I've watched as they've brow-beat the artists, demeaned their efforts, and basically told anybody that didn't agree with them that they were stupid.
I have finally had enough. You have the GALL to sit here and call me arrogant but don't question the garbage coming out of the mouths of others here? I have never attacked anyone for their tastes. I have never attacked anyone for their opinions. I AM attacking people for their behavior.
My "arrogant" statement was in response to Adder's charge that I was ignorant because of the fact that I could find no legitimate artistic fault with RamyB's art. That is a fact. I rarely see any significant design principle that he has broken, and rarely any anatomical irregularity that wasn't a stylistic choice. I have a fairly extensive knowledge base to draw upon. MY JOB is to pick people's art apart so that I can help them improve it.
A lot of people here don't seem to understand the difference between a critique and criticism. Telling somebody "This is more of the same terrible garbage that you always do" is not a critique. It adds nothing to the discussion and doesn't help the artist improve in the slightest. "This is what looks wrong on the piece, and here's what you could do to fix it" IS a a useful critique.
Arrogance is coming on these forums and trash-talking the artists and bad-mouthing their efforts because you have "the Internets" and an opinion. I got news for you. Opinions are like anuses. Everybody has one, and most of them stink. I'm not trying to change anybody's opinion here. I'm simply asking that people NOT act like giant DOUCHebuckets.
you ask that people stop acting bad, and you do it in a very abrasive and poor way. do you really expect anyone to listen to you? you decry arrogance in the most arrogant way. do you not understand irony? is this all some kind of elaborate performance art?
and criticism and critique ARE the same. they are both CRITICAL. maybe you should look for a new job reading dictoinaries since you suck SOOOOO much at your current job of judging design.
Re: Twin Dragons
What's with the fire and ice effect? Looks like a Chinese dragon version of the Dueling Dragons ride at the Universal amusement park in Florida.
Re: Twin Dragons
When I look at this design and the original side-by-side, I see a significant improvement in this one. I would vote for, buy and wear this shirt if I had disposable income.
If someone other than RamyB had submitted this design, I could see complaining about a lack of originality, but since it's his design and wasn't printed the first time, it seems he should be allowed to make improvements and resubmit. If it's not improved, people still won't vote for it.
OTOH, if this version doesn't win the derby, I think RamyB should wait the 60 days and submit it somewhere where it will print.
i mean does anyone really know what the goal of this site is?
IT is NOT to help struggling artists to hone their talents it is not a pick the best artist contest. It is to sell the shirt most people will wear if you have not realized the I'd want one button is asking you if you are going to buy this shirt if it prints. NOT if you think hey this guy did a real good job. its not a donate to the artists no for profit it is a business and how do business work kids? SALES. so if you clicking that button because you think he or she did a good job and not because you will buy that shirt good job your a gumball!
:steps off soap box:
Re: Twin Dragons
Man, I wish everyone would just cool it... Nobody can win a fight here, because nobody is willing to see anyone else's side...ever.
I don't know why people can't let others enjoy art without tearing them down. So what if someone likes a bunny shirt, or shiny dragons, or chess or Star Wars? Their votes mean just as much as those who want other designs to win because they love those designs. Nobody needs a reason or a justification as to why they like something.
So many of you claim to be here for art, but you are not. You just want take things away from people, to tell people what to like. You want to personally and hurtfully judge people. Nobody can have anything that you don't deem worthy, that you don't deem 'quality'. That's pretty arrogant, to judge what we should all see as 'quality'? So many talk endlessly about "fairness", but how is it fair to say what should be enjoyed and what should not? Who are you to make those judgements? That doesn't speak of fairness to me at all...
There's plenty of stuff here that isn't to my taste, but somebody likes it. Far be it right for me to take that way from them, or sit there and insult them for liking it. If it's not for me, that's ok, I don't have to lay there kicking and screaming because the design I wanted didn't win. :\ (which is often these days) There's always next time, and there's no shortage of cool apparel out there to purchase. Watching the way some of you crack when something you don't like wins, it's like watching a toddler go through the "Mine!" phase. :\ I do not understand such anger over tshirts..
If you really were here for the art, you wouldn't make this site such a hard place to come to to enjoy art. People have to constantly worry that the art they make or like will be routinely trashed and called 'stupid' or 'worthless' or devoid of 'quality'. No matter what, that's not cool -at all-. I dont give a dump what background in art you have or lack. It's selfish and wrong to condemn people just for not sharing your personal tastes. It's also selfish to want to change an entire community to only suit your desires, demands, or personal preferences. When you build and run a new tee site, you can then make those demands. Woot is not your site, it is not your art gallery, it is a site for -everyone-.
This is actually a pretty nice derby guys! There's lots of amazing art to choose from. Go, support it, enjoy it. Let others support the art that makes them happy too. With all the freakin great artists here, I'm amazed at all the people who seem to feel there's nothing for them.
Balloons.
Also, my "crew" does things of their own free will. I am not Skynet ^^;. I do not controooolll the wiiiiills of all humaaaans and machiiiines! :P (I wish I did though, that would rock, the earth would be flooded in bunnies...LOL)
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bassanimation wrote:
Also, my "crew" does things of their own free will. I am not Skynet ^^;. I do not controooolll the wiiiiills of all humaaaans and machiiiines! :P (I wish I did though, that would rock, the earth would be flooded in bunnies...LOL)
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I'm fairly certain that you are indeed Skynet. Perhaps you haven't become self-aware yet.
the reason why people are so judgmental and hurt people so much is because truthfully they enjoy it i have only put one critically negative view towards a shirt on this website and it was because it was politically motivated. did i call that person a evil twisted cheater no i said i wish you had not made a political statement I will not be voting for this shirt.
drop the hate people
odysseyroc wrote:I'm fairly certain that you are indeed Skynet. Perhaps you haven't become self-aware yet.
Hmmmm, perhaps you are right......
By the way, have you seen this boy?
marmls2m wrote:am i crazy or did you just respond twice to the same comment with two wholey different responses? what the hell is that about? do you have two distinct and seperate personalities?
to answer your questions, ramy regularly displays terrible anatomy with the excuse that it is supposed to be stylized, or has designs that consist of nothing but swirly halftones for no reason other than to acheive the "glow" effect that the voters seem to love so much. it seems the only thing ramy is really good at is coloring. proportions are always off, persepctives are often off, anatomy is off. if not off, then inconsistent within the same piece
how is it that you have never noticed these things?
and please dont rationalize it by referring to impressionist or surrealist painters
p.s. this is you being an adult? jeez, what would you being irrational look like? throwing your own feces at people?
I just wanted to ask you, how can you judge proportions and anatomy of a fictional creature? The perspective looks fine, unless you wanted it to look more three dimensional. Bottom line, for this piece it seems like you are just picking on ramy. This is a solid improvement on the last time it was entered. Skill can improve after practice and time, maybe thats all he has needed.
Your judging an artist rather than a piece. No artist will always fit every persons idea of what a good piece should be. Judge the body of work when its complete, until then piece by piece.
Again ramy, i think this is a great piece, stylized or not it is a well drawn and colored design and i hope it wins so i can buy the shirt.
Re: Twin Dragons
I don't think I'd wear something like this but I can really appreciate the amount of time and effort that went into this so you've definitely GMV. Good luck man!
Re: Twin Dragons
If it weren't for the glowing, I wouldn't have been able to tell this was a ramyb design(no, I haven't seen the Two entry before reading this thread).
I like it, more or less. The watery dripping effect on the bottom of Mr. Blue is a nice touch, and all the lines are crisp and clean(I actually really enjoy the coloring and use of negative space on the heads).
I -don't- like, however, the placement/orientation, and the lack of consistancy with the dragons' density. Both comments have been said before but: The blue dragon would definitely lie on the underside of a woman's chest, and the position of the red one leaves me wanting more in the center of the shirt. On top of that, the red glows through the blue at one point, but not another. If that's the desired effect, I'm not a fan. It definitely -looks- like an oversight and detracts from the piece.
AAALL that being said - The last two derbies have me not as Scroogey at ramyb. It's a nice dragon shirt with a few nitpicky things I personally don't like. I don't wear dragon shirts anyway, though.
This derby is -tailor- made for me, I know. Hah.
Mrspott wrote:the reason why people are so judgmental and hurt people so much is because truthfully they enjoy it i have only put one critically negative view towards a shirt on this website and it was because it was politically motivated. did i call that person a evil twisted cheater no i said i wish you had not made a political statement I will not be voting for this shirt.
drop the hate people
So, all critics just enjoy hurting others? That has to be the most hateful thing said on this thread. Please, drop the general-isms and the hate, Mrspott 
People who aren't afraid to express opinions and perform critical analysis are people too, you know. Really, such hatred of others has no place on this site, and it's completely off topic.
Also, if every critical comment someone made was positive, then his comments aren't "critical." They are these things called "complements." There's a significant difference between being able to critique a design honestly, and giving only positive "critiques."
Re: Twin Dragons
I got a lot of good laughs out of the "debates" on this thread! Though I usually do from any of Ramy's submissions... I don't get it, can't people just VOTE and move on? It's like none of you have lives, jobs, etc.
I didn't vote for this submission - I think the glowiness of the lines is a very cool print effect that I wish more artists could incorporate as a decorative element, though NOT as the focus, in their shirt designs. Also, the dragons' faces more resemble those of a dog (a wolf perhaps) than they do of the oriental dragon.
But wait - maybe these are LUCK DRAGONS.
RaveDroid wrote:
But wait - maybe these are LUCK DRAGONS.
ATRREEEEEYYUUUU!!
Dragons are portrayed with these kinds of faces in some cultures. If you've seen Spirited Away, these look a lot like Haku's dragon form.
nyren wrote:So, all critics just enjoy hurting others? That has to be the most hateful thing said on this thread. Please, drop the general-isms and the hate, Mrspott
Also, if every critical comment someone made was positive, then his comments aren't "critical." They are these things called "complements." There's a significant difference between being able to critique a design honestly, and giving only positive "critiques."
Mrs Poot has a point, I'm afraid. For example, if I remember correctly, a member stated here once that they were intentionally launching a character assault on me. It was an admitted personal thing, nothing about my art. People routinely take personal jabs at others here, as opposed to actually critting artwork properly. How is that not hurtful, both personally and professionally? None of us even know eachother :/.
Also, it is perfectly easy to make an honest critique without being a jerk. Most people just don't know how to do it or don't want to do it, because it's effort. It's a lot easier to just to point out everything bad and leave.
bassanimation wrote:ATRREEEEEYYUUUU!!
Dragons are portrayed with these kinds of faces in some cultures. If you've seen Spirited Away, these look a lot like Haku's dragon form.
I was thinking more Falkor ... Not that I'd mind wearing a luck dragon on a t-shirt but whatever. lol
You knew what I was talking about, at least!
P.S. I have not seen Spirited Away.
AdderXYU wrote:Besides the fact that it is foolish to imply ramy's work has "usually nothing significantly wrong," you show a glaring ignorance presuming that it is so strongly all about money. That presumes it's all about jealousy. It presumes it's all about greed. It does not take into account concerns of originality and creativity, nor on the other side concerns of boring and generic. It does not take into account the lack of respect put forth by certain "designers" every week. It ignores the lack of effort, the frequent refusal to even attempt to be on theme, the shoehorning proven vote-grabbing elements into designs that have no reason for them. And it certainly ignores the fact that the parties defended most for this are known swindlers throughout the internet. People should always have every right to be angry when people like that profit. It's giving OJ Simpson the key to the city, or wearing a Michael Vick jersey in 2010. Just because a conviction didn't come, or time has been served, doesn't make the person any less guilty, and that is one more huge reason these people are so disrespected here. As well they should be.
I agree
bassanimation wrote:Mrs Poot has a point, I'm afraid. For example, if I remember correctly, a member stated here once that they were intentionally launching a character assault on me. It was an admitted personal thing, nothing about my art. People routinely take personal jabs at others here, as opposed to actually critting artwork properly. How is that not hurtful, both personally and professionally? None of us even know eachother :/.
Also, it is perfectly easy to make an honest critique without being a jerk.
Err, none of that has anything to do with what I said... I mean, no offense, but I think you missed my point and addressed a different one that is vaguely similar to what I said, but with a completely different meaning and connotation...
Unless, you're exactly equating people who don't like your work with people who don't like you, and people who don't favorably review your works with people who are inherently jerks.
Just because I don't like someone's art, it doesn't mean that I'm the same person as that other guy who said that person was a boogerface.
jmmbell1987 wrote:Given that it's a resub of a previous, unrejected design, I doubt it.
due specifically to the "no video game reference"
it had this kind of feel to it
ThatsClownShoes wrote:due specifically to the "no video game reference"
it had this kind of feel to it
How is this even related to it besides color and about two dragons?
wootasourous wrote:How is this even related to it besides color and about two dragons?
ummmm... you pretty much just summed it up. Thanks for answering your own question
oh yeah
BAM
This looks like it took forever to draw and it well done, but if I ever saw someone wearing this I would be unable to control my laughter.
RaveDroid wrote:I was thinking more Falkor ... Not that I'd mind wearing a luck dragon on a t-shirt but whatever. lol
You knew what I was talking about, at least!
P.S. I have not seen Spirited Away.
Oh no no, I know you mean Falcor. I just always remember him searching for Atreyu and screaming for him, near the end. Luck dragons are awesome.
nyren wrote:Err, none of that has anything to do with what I said... I mean, no offense, but I think you missed my point and addressed a different one that is vaguely similar to what I said, but with a completely different meaning and connotation...
Unless, you're exactly equating people who don't like your work with people who don't like you, and people who don't favorably review your works with people who are inherently jerks.
Just because I don't like someone's art, it doesn't mean that I'm the same person as that other guy who said that person was a boogerface.
I was simply stating that some people here do act out over personal reasons, not artistic differences. Not pointing a finger at you in particular.
Sorry if I missed your point.
Nice Glowy German Shepherds with snake-like bodies Rammy!!!
JRWorkshop wrote:Nice Glowy German Shepherds with snake-like bodies Rammy!!!
Haku
http://images.absoluteanime.com/spirited_away/haku2.jpg
nyren wrote:So, all critics just enjoy hurting others? That has to be the most hateful thing said on this thread. Please, drop the general-isms and the hate, Mrspott
Also, if every critical comment someone made was positive, then his comments aren't "critical." They are these things called "complements." There's a significant difference between being able to critique a design honestly, and giving only positive "critiques."
I was talking about assaults on the artist and not the art
ThatsClownShoes wrote:ummmm... you pretty much just summed it up. Thanks for answering your own question
oh yeah
BAM
Consider the difference though.
1. ACTUAL dragons are depicted, not humans.
2. Placement.
3. No text.
4. Twin Dragons, not Double Dragon.
5. This doesn't even have a video game feel to it.
The color and similar dragon theme is not a substantial similarity that it should bring anything to the tables for rejection.
And I doubt RamyB even went of parody of that, but if he did, it's far from copying that it should even be brought up.
Stick around a little longer and you'll figure out the concept of "parody".
Oh and "BAM" back atchyeah. ;)
Re: Twin Dragons
I'm not a fan of any design that was previously submitted in another derby. No matter how many tweaks are added.
And what's with the commotion about how awesome the scales are? Just looks like a bunch of repeated lowercase W's to me.
icemonster wrote:And what's with the commotion about how awesome the scales are? Just looks like a bunch of repeated lowercase W's to me.
I think you mean CONSUMMATE V'S!
icemonster wrote:I'm not a fan of any design that was previously submitted in another derby. No matter how many tweaks are added.
...
I'm probably not exactly responding to this comment, but I think my comment is somewhat related.
Though I've tried to stay out of these threads for quite a while, I have to speak here. The issue with this design to me is that it isn't really at all different from the first submission. Many resubs by others in the past have been rejected for being direct resubs despite being a great deal more different from the original than this one is. This is the only issue that I think I can have with the design. It ought to have been rejected when first submitted for that reason. Fairness means that everyone is treated the same. I'm skeptical here.
Josephus wrote:I'm probably not exactly responding to this comment, but I think my comment is somewhat related.
Though I've tried to stay out of these threads for quite a while, I have to speak here. The issue with this design to me is that it isn't really at all different from the first submission. Many resubs by others in the past have been rejected for being direct resubs despite being a great deal more different from the original than this one is. This is the only issue that I think I can have with the design. It ought to have been rejected when first submitted for that reason. Fairness means that everyone is treated the same. I'm skeptical here.
This image was redrawn from scratch, and a great amount of re-working went into the detail. Putting the two side-by-side, it's clearly the same layout and arrangement, but also clearly redone.
What shirts are you citing as rejected but less alike than this and its first run?
xazothia wrote:I think you mean CONSUMMATE V'S!
Ahh, You beat me to the reference.
Trogdor was a man
I mean, he was a dragon man
Or maybe he was just a dragon
But he was still TROGDOR!
xazothia wrote:I think you mean CONSUMMATE V'S!
YES!!
wootasourous wrote:Consider the difference though.
1. ACTUAL dragons are depicted, not humans.
2. Placement.
3. No text.
4. Twin Dragons, not Double Dragon.
5. This doesn't even have a video game feel to it.
The color and similar dragon theme is not a substantial similarity that it should bring anything to the tables for rejection.
And I doubt RamyB even went of parody of that, but if he did, it's far from copying that it should even be brought up.
Stick around a little longer and you'll figure out the concept of "parody".
Oh and "BAM" back atchyeah. ;)
I didn't say it was an exact replica of this... I said it Kinda had that type of feel to it. I see your point on precise reasons it is not similar and you would be correct. But when I first saw this shirt I was like "oh a double dragon shirt...how unoriginal." Its not that i don't like the design...I just didn't felt the concept lacked originality...
BAM! don't make me bring back Scott Wolf and the guy who hosts Iron Chef... those are two bad ass mofos...
wootasourous wrote:Consider the difference though.
1. ACTUAL dragons are depicted, not humans.
2. Placement.
3. No text.
4. Twin Dragons, not Double Dragon.
5. This doesn't even have a video game feel to it.
The color and similar dragon theme is not a substantial similarity that it should bring anything to the tables for rejection.
And I doubt RamyB even went of parody of that, but if he did, it's far from copying that it should even be brought up.
Stick around a little longer and you'll figure out the concept of "parody".
Oh and "BAM" back atchyeah. ;)
I didn't say it was an exact replica of this... I said it Kinda had that type of feel to it. I see your point on precise reasons it is not similar and you would be correct. But when I first saw this shirt I was like "oh a double dragon shirt...how unoriginal." Its not that i don't like the design...I just felt the concept lacked originality...
BAM! don't make me bring back Scott Wolf and the guy who hosts Iron Chef... those are two bad ass mofos...
Re: Twin Dragons
Wow. Some of the comments people have made are astonishing. My first graders are more mature.
Great design, I don't care if it's been seen before, it appeals. Unfortunately, none of the other designs, for all their originality and creativity, have gained my interest nor my vote.
If you want to create art then get your work submitted to the MoMA, as for ramyb s/he has created something that I would want to buy!
Re: Twin Dragons
This is a nice design with good detail and kudos to Ramy for not making a chibi zodiac, but honestly it reminds me of a cheap dragon shirt I could buy at Target. I could never wear this in public.
I've bought over 60 shirt.woots. I'd buy this one.
I've read every comment in this thread. I usually don't read the comments in the derbys, or participate, but this was a somewhat fascinating, somewhat depressing conversation. Lots of noise, very little signal.
Anyway, if it's offered, I'll buy and wear it. And if you're one of the people who'd laugh at me for wearing it, heck, I've been laughed at for so much in my life that I don't care. It's a beautiful drawing.
Ramyb, I've always loved this design. I'd buy it. I'm sorry it didn't work out.
The original design is one of the reasons I started reading shirt.woot
ramyb wrote:I thought of this design from the two derby when I saw the theme and was excited by the chance to rework it. I like how the original was structured, but wanted to make it much more detailed and generally better looking, so redrew it completely and tried to adjust things based on critiques of the original.
My hand still hurts from gridding and drawing scales for hours :P
Lost two derbies and missed two HM's. If it's gonna happen, it's not gonna happen here. Could you please post this shirt (both versions preferably, I really liked the old one better) somewhere for sale?
