Derby #139: Madness
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The Two Sides of Madness

The Two Sides of Madness
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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


The idea I had was to represent the ups and downs of madness (essentially mania and depression) in a way that shows them intertwined, where it's difficult to make out where one ends and the other starts. Hope you enjoy the concept and the artwork

Draug


quality posts: 69 Private Messages Draug
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


Aren't those the same butterflies you used for the band names derby? -_-;

The enemy's gate is down.
Writers are people too! (Albeit strange ones.)
Save Poe! Reckon Nevermore! Or he'll be head-locked forevermore!

xazothia


quality posts: 54 Private Messages xazothia
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


This design is too... murky, for lack of a better word. I understand it's meant to have an ethereal quality, but the various elements are too similar in tone and treatment to be easily picked out at a quick glance. I think it works conceptually as an illustration, but it's not working on a t-shirt for me.

BaldBob007


quality posts: 1 Private Messages BaldBob007
xazothia wrote:This design is too... murky, for lack of a better word. I understand it's meant to have an ethereal quality, but the various elements are too similar in tone and treatment to be easily picked out at a quick glance. I think it works conceptually as an illustration, but it's not working on a t-shirt for me.


I agree. I like parts of this; but as a whole - I don't think it works.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
xazothia wrote:This design is too... murky, for lack of a better word. I understand it's meant to have an ethereal quality, but the various elements are too similar in tone and treatment to be easily picked out at a quick glance. I think it works conceptually as an illustration, but it's not working on a t-shirt for me.


Agreed. my first thought was that this needed more value changes. Everything is too close is value right now.





AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Draug wrote:Aren't those the same butterflies you used for the band names derby? -_-;


You're thinking of kdeuce. ramy just entered bunnies, if I recall correctly.

xazothia


quality posts: 54 Private Messages xazothia
AdderXYU wrote:You're thinking of kdeuce. ramy just entered bunnies, if I recall correctly.


Last week, Ramy had an iron butterfly entry.

icemonster


quality posts: 0 Private Messages icemonster
xazothia wrote:Last week, Ramy had an iron butterfly entry.


http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40587


I like the idea here, but I don't like the butterflies.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
xazothia wrote:Last week, Ramy had an iron butterfly entry.


I wasn't paying attention last week. And honestly, I was thinking of the fake band names. It's not my fault woot comes up with similar themes.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I have a new theory. Ramyb's photoshop only came with the above colors.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Draug


quality posts: 69 Private Messages Draug
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I know what it reminds me of!

In elementary school, in art class, the teacher would have us experiment with different ways to paint and one of them was to 'splatter paint' by dipping a toothbrush into paint and running your finger over the bristles to fling the paint onto the page. That's what this sort of looks like.

And that's not a good thing.

The enemy's gate is down.
Writers are people too! (Albeit strange ones.)
Save Poe! Reckon Nevermore! Or he'll be head-locked forevermore!

janusjudas


quality posts: 0 Private Messages janusjudas
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


i for one, love this although i could go for a little more contrast between the two sides and less of the random splotching in the background. really ramy, your art speaks for itself, you dont need the window dressing.

cakeninjak


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cakeninjak
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


This just looks like a blob of color. None of the elements really pop off the shirt, and as a result, that makes this look incredibly flat and boring.

lastberserker


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lastberserker
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


Love the idea and 3/4 of the execution! Might use some cleanup and better balance between elements on the left and right sides.

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987
cakeninjak wrote:This just looks like a blob of color. None of the elements really pop off the shirt, and as a result, that makes this look incredibly flat and boring.


Ditto to this. Jewelwing's entry uses a similar color scheme, but there's much more contrast and it's less busy, so everything pops much more.

cmdixon2


quality posts: 21 Private Messages cmdixon2
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I agree that this is too cluttered. It has a LOT going on in there, but unfortunately you just can't make it out easily. I think the splattered background is just so dominant that the focus gets lost.

ashtomorgo


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ashtomorgo
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


i have this preconceived idea that i dont like ramy just from always reading his post, but i think the idea of this shirt is just amazing, and as far as the fact that its looks a little cluttered, isnt that what madness is? madness isnt in perfect order, its all jumbled up, i love the design, only worried about how it will print? oh well, gmv.

Stellardig


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Stellardig
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


Really Cool! Great job

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


This is really beautiful Ramy, I'm super impressed! There are so many details to absorb.. Very cool image, excellent job with the theme.

KaylaJ


quality posts: 22 Private Messages KaylaJ
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


the design on this reminds me of the old shirt what dreams are made of in that it looks busy and interesting, but it may not print so lovely.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
ashtomorgo wrote:i think the idea of this shirt is just amazing...


I've reserved comment on this shirt, too, because there is just so much hating going on for ramy and seki. Not that I think it's totally undeserved, but....
Anyhoo, I have to disagree on the 'idea' being amazing. I mean, maybe it is, but it certainly doesn't register with me the way it's described in the post. Madness, probably. But bi-polar? How does a willowy, busty blonde represent a male's manic side? I won't argue it isn't pretty - it is. But I just don't get it.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
planeshifter2 wrote:No moreso than you.


So... that's a "yes"?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bellarific


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bellarific
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


There are a lot of unnecessary graphic elements in here. I feel like it's one of those.....what are those distressed shirts that dudes are always wearing? ...Affliction? Yeah, Affliction.

Anyway, it looks like one of those.

xazothia


quality posts: 54 Private Messages xazothia
paigeg wrote:How does a willowy, busty blonde represent a male's manic side?


one of the possible effects of mania is an increased libido, and engaging in promiscuous behaviors outside of what would be reasonable or within a person's normal scope of sexuality. to be less Freudian, mania can also involve any kind of euphoric imagination or even hallucination, so a pretty woman isn't that far out of left field.

The butterflies are the part I really don't get, personally.

HoneyBadger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages HoneyBadger
xazothia wrote:
The butterflies are the part I really don't get, personally.


You stated that "mania" has many symptoms, one of those that you mentioned was hallucination. Perhaps a manic hallucination is that of butterflies flying when in reality there aren't any butterflies at all. Or maybe it's just to show the contrast between depression and mania. If you notice the right side (depression) has black birds (crows?) which might repressent death, sadness, fear. While the Manic side has butterflies which might represent happiness (euphoria).

all in all nice shirt ramy :D I don't care what other people might say I would probably buy it if i had the chance.

darkfireradiant


quality posts: 0 Private Messages darkfireradiant
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I do really like it, but maybe not as a shirt. I could see it more as a poster. I think you could take this and maybe twink it a little more t-shirty. Add some more contrast like someone said, make the designs pop out. Maybe take away some of the background noise. Maybe it could be used for more of a dream or imagination, madness doesn't really cover it. Still kudos for designing better than me.

xazothia


quality posts: 54 Private Messages xazothia
HoneyBadger wrote:If you notice the right side (depression) has black birds (crows?) which might repressent death, sadness, fear.


I actually didn't notice the birds until you pointed them out. and then I still had to look hard to find them.

Lenne819


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lenne819

*gasp* This. Is. AMAZING!!! If it wins I will buy it immediately!

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987

Even if one likes this design, look at the damn shirt comp. It looks like a bruise-colored blob. One can like the image in general and acknowledge that, as is, it's not going to make for a wearable design.

GNitro


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GNitro

Nice design Ramy. I really like how it steps away from the cuter material you tend to design (which I enjoy as well). Always nice to see you change things up and give us something different.

juliaL719


quality posts: 0 Private Messages juliaL719

I'm reserving my comment about interpreting manic-depression in such a manner (butterflies are hell of out of the equation during one of my manic phases)...

The problem is that this looks like someone sneezed on the shirt.

Altheahelaine


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Altheahelaine
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


As a friend of someone who is a long time diagnosed manic depressive, I just have to say this.

It has a good/evil feel. Like the left side is 'good' things (pretty woman, butterflies, general 'happier' atmosphere) while the right seems to indicate bad things, crows, skulls.. etc.

I understand I suppose what you were trying to originally do. I have to agree, there is not enough color contrast and I cannot really see what's going on with this shirt. I imagine that'll get worse with repeated use, I stupidly bought a few shirts that looked similarly muddled back when I first started shirt.woot-ing.. and I just know it'll go down the same path. But one side 'good' and the other 'evil' just doesn't really cut it with the manic depressive argument. Manic periods can be worse then depressive periods- it all depends on the individual person and the given day.

Just my two cents.

I live, I learn, and so aid my end while I believe I'm winning

orzine


quality posts: 0 Private Messages orzine

it just makes sense this is in the fog. it is a really poor design with poor color choices, no thought given to the overall composition, and it was doing really poorly yesterday. all of a sudden it got a surge of votes out of nowhere which jammed it into the hotness, and now its in the fog.

nearly all the comments on this page are about how the shirt doesnt look good. how did it shoot up into the fog so suddenly?

you tell me there is nothing underhanded going on here. i dont care how much you need the money. you can never justify rigging the vote, ramyb

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
GNitro wrote:Always nice to see you change things up and give us something different.


Yes because he never submits shirts that are a swirly chaotic mess, include butterflies, grim reapers, or good/evil theme. It's what he always does if it's not cute chibi animals. It's not new in any way.

There are quite a few good designs in this derby IMO, and I will be 10 kinds of pissed off if this POS prints.

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

Floridafighter66


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Floridafighter66
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I do truly enjoy this design and concept (the blurred line between the two sides). But i agree with previous comments, it is difficult to pick out the different elements. Very chaotic, but in the sense that it almost distracts from the sides. If you were going to do a resub, i would try to aim for some color contrast. Now, i am no artist, but it appears that a good way to differentiate between different elements is to incorporate contrasting colors for eased picking-out(ness). Don't ditch the concept though.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
juliaL719 wrote:

The problem is that this looks like someone sneezed on the shirt.


I can't stop laughing...

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
Altheahelaine wrote:As a friend of someone who is a long time diagnosed manic depressive, I just have to say this...


And also as a friend of a manic depressive, the manic episodes are so much characterized by what I call (insensitively, I suppose)
the crazies. Total ebuillence, gaiety, confidence, colorful and racy clothes, on a mission about something du jour...
This is why I don't get the willowy blonde, especially for a male manic depressive.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
orzine wrote: how did it shoot up into the fog so suddenly?


I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything, but I was totally shocked to log in this afternoon and see this suddenly in the fog, after hanging down a bit. And it helped to displace a favorite of mine, which doesn't make me terribly happy.

tonitonitone


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tonitonitone
you tell me there is nothing underhanded going on here. i dont care how much you need the money. you can never justify rigging the vote, ramyb


This is just plain mean. Are you just upset he has more friends than you?

I thought this was a nice design, and I could tell the elements very clearly (birds, grim reaper, skulls .. ) The colors works, I like the splashes of mixed medias. I voted for this and my vote isn't rigged.

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987
tonitonitone wrote:This is just plain mean. Are you just upset he has more friends than you?


Funny thing is, winning due to having more friends than other designers would itself be a massive hole in the voting system.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus

It is literally UNBELIEVABLE that this is in the fog.

I hate to do this since it's actually been a while since anything "weird" has happened but... come on! Out of nowhere, this comes into the fog when there is a marked absence of people who claim to love this shirt. Obviously, there are a few, but nowhere near the normal number.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

GNitro


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GNitro
tonitonitone wrote:This is just plain mean. Are you just upset he has more friends than you?

I thought this was a nice design, and I could tell the elements very clearly (birds, grim reaper, skulls .. ) The colors works, I like the splashes of mixed medias. I voted for this and my vote isn't rigged.


You haven't noticed the hatred people have for Ramy yet? It's sad that no matter what he does, people post some of the worst comments on his stuff, regardless if it is good or not.

I for one wish woot would try and stop the animosity that occurs towards some of the artists on this site. Most of it is rather petty.

SubBass49


quality posts: 3 Private Messages SubBass49
GNitro wrote:You haven't noticed the hatred people have for Ramy yet? It's sad that no matter what he does, people post some of the worst comments on his stuff, regardless if it is good or not.

I for one wish woot would try and stop the animosity that occurs towards some of the artists on this site. Most of it is rather petty.


I haven't even been around for long and I've noticed that. There is definitely a strong "cute design" contingent here, and I could see why they don't like his style. That said, I think they go a bit overboard in hating on his artwork.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
SubBass49 wrote:I haven't even been around for long and I've noticed that. There is definitely a strong "cute design" contingent here, and I could see why they don't like his style. That said, I think they go a bit overboard in hating on his artwork.


You think this will make a good shirt?

(To start with only one of the multiple problems surrounding this submission.)

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

SubBass49


quality posts: 3 Private Messages SubBass49
kylemittskus wrote:You think this will make a good shirt?

(To start with only one of the multiple problems surrounding this submission.)


Sure.

I think for some people it would make a really nice shirt. I'm not one of those people though.

1. I'm not a big fan of black shirts.
2. I'm not a big fan of using those colors on black shirts.
3. The design isn't anything I would wear.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
SubBass49 wrote:Sure.

I think for some people it would make a really nice shirt. I'm not one of those people though.

1. I'm not a big fan of black shirts.
2. I'm not a big fan of using those colors on black shirts.
3. The design isn't anything I would wear.


All of those things aside -- and you being a designer -- this shirt is unbearable. It is impossible to tell what it is unless you're inches away, and even then, it's nearly impossible. There is not enough contrast between ink and palate, no delineation between images, etc. etc. etc.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

SubBass49


quality posts: 3 Private Messages SubBass49
kylemittskus wrote:All of those things aside -- and you being a designer -- this shirt is unbearable. It is impossible to tell what it is unless you're inches away, and even then, it's nearly impossible. There is not enough contrast between ink and palate, no delineation between images, etc. etc. etc.


For some design work I actually LIKE that sort of stuff. Given the subject matter I think it's OK to have some stuff in there that's murky and hidden...it kind of works with the concept of madness. That fleeting realm between dream and reality, where nothing is solid or easy to define.

Like I said, it's nothing I would wear, but I like it more artistically than a lot of the "cutesy" (for lack of a better term) designs.

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987
SubBass49 wrote:That fleeting realm between dream and reality, where nothing is solid or easy to define.


Some intentional lack of clarity might be defensible. But this design literally looks like a blob of indiscernible mass. It's not that some of the details are unclear, but rather that they're all lumped together like a rubber band ball.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
jmmbell1987 wrote:Some intentional lack of clarity might be defensible. But this design literally looks like a blob of indiscernible mass. It's not that some of the details are unclear, but rather that they're all lumped together like a rubber band ball.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm down with murkiness if it's intentional and well done. This shirt is a hot mess.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
SubBass49 wrote:
Like I said, it's nothing I would wear.


And that is the defining quality.

fairnymph


quality posts: 55 Private Messages fairnymph
ramyb wrote:The idea I had was to represent the ups and downs of madness (essentially mania and depression) in a way that shows them intertwined, where it's difficult to make out where one ends and the other starts. Hope you enjoy the concept and the artwork



I really love it when you make more 'artsy' designs - you have so much talent, it saddens me to see it wasted on the cutesy stuff.

This one GMV and I would buy it, too. Keep on with the true beauty, ramyb!

My Cellar * Read my ramblings on LiveJournal.

79 wine.woots, 42 shirt.woots, 18 woots, 3 sellout.woots, 1 kids.woot

"I like my Sirah like I like my women: young, Petite and inky." - Thralow on CT

orzine


quality posts: 0 Private Messages orzine
fairnymph wrote:I really love it when you make more 'artsy' designs - you have so much talent, it saddens me to see it wasted on the cutesy stuff.

This one GMV and I would buy it, too. Keep on with the true beauty, ramyb!


i am willing ramyb has two talents. he can color attractively, and he knows what will sell best. but time after time, when he travels outside his comfort zone of nauseously cute designs and formless swirly halftones, you can start to see hot little talent he actually has. he cannot draw proper anatomy to save his life, just look at his win from the luck derby and the "chest hands" on the dinosaur. he gets lemon juice in the eye at perspective, just look at his rocket turtle win. he gets lemon juice in the eye at making work expressive, especially faces. if you take a design like this, you can break it down into alot of pre-designed elements; the skulls, the butterfly from the previous derby, the blond woman that probably came from tracing a stock photo, the birds which are most likely stock vectors, the splatter that even a gorilla can create, and the vague outline of a man. none of that requires any talent. and none of it actually displays any talent.

keep in mind that i am willing to admit he has a great talent in coloring. he has come a long way from just overusing the dodge and burn tools. but please dont tell me that this design shows a talent in illustration. it just doesnt.

the talent he doesnt show so obviously is his great ability to look at a contest or system and figure out how to cheat and manipulate it for maximum monetary gain for himself. that and looking like a victim to evoke empathy.

and if i am wrong about that, then he definitely has a talent to herd a massive amounts of mindless voters garnered from other sites to vote up his designs.

so dont call me a hater, im willing to give credit where it is due

isparabola


quality posts: 8 Private Messages isparabola
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I had to strain my eyes to see what was going on in this shirt.

sakleehop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sakleehop
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


Really - how did this shoot into the fog so quickly? A majority of the comments are negative so...who's voting for it? This is confusing at best and suspicious at worst.

GNitro


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GNitro
sakleehop wrote:Really - how did this shoot into the fog so quickly? A majority of the comments are negative so...who's voting for it? This is confusing at best and suspicious at worst.


Because not everyone who votes comments on designs. Winning designs have 700 to over 1000 votes easily, so obviously not everyone comes in to comment.

fairnymph


quality posts: 55 Private Messages fairnymph
orzine wrote:i am willing ramyb has two talents. he can color attractively, and he knows what will sell best. but time after time, when he travels outside his comfort zone of nauseously cute designs and formless swirly halftones, you can start to see hot little talent he actually has. he cannot draw proper anatomy to save his life, just look at his win from the luck derby and the "chest hands" on the dinosaur. he gets lemon juice in the eye at perspective, just look at his rocket turtle win. he gets lemon juice in the eye at making work expressive, especially faces. if you take a design like this, you can break it down into alot of pre-designed elements; the skulls, the butterfly from the previous derby, the blond woman that probably came from tracing a stock photo, the birds which are most likely stock vectors, the splatter that even a gorilla can create, and the vague outline of a man. none of that requires any talent. and none of it actually displays any talent.

keep in mind that i am willing to admit he has a great talent in coloring. he has come a long way from just overusing the dodge and burn tools. but please dont tell me that this design shows a talent in illustration. it just doesnt.

the talent he doesnt show so obviously is his great ability to look at a contest or system and figure out how to cheat and manipulate it for maximum monetary gain for himself. that and looking like a victim to evoke empathy.

and if i am wrong about that, then he definitely has a talent to herd a massive amounts of mindless voters garnered from other sites to vote up his designs.

so dont call me a hater, im willing to give credit where it is due


I have not taken the time to examine this particular piece or his other artsy pieces to determine whether they were constructed from the ground up or not.

Do I respect artists who clearly start from scratch more? Absolutely. But I think that an artist who knows how to combine preconstructed elements in an appealing fashion is still an artist, and that doing that still requires talent and most of all, a good eye.

There are many artists here and everywhere who have loads and loads of 'talent from scratch' and yet their work has no appeal to me at all. To me, art is ultimately about BEAUTY and APPEAL - so if ramyb's design LOOKS GOOD AND MAKES ME HAPPY - it serves its purpose as good art.

I absolutely HATE lots of ramyb's stuff. But there have been some designs I have really, really admired and coveted - this is one, and the Victorian lady by the sea is another (one of my favourite woot designs of all time, possibly).

Even if an an artist produces a lot of work I despise, I'll still consider each new piece with an open mind.

The only artist I always vote for on principle is Drakxxx...there is no one I would 'never' vote for, however.

My Cellar * Read my ramblings on LiveJournal.

79 wine.woots, 42 shirt.woots, 18 woots, 3 sellout.woots, 1 kids.woot

"I like my Sirah like I like my women: young, Petite and inky." - Thralow on CT

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
paigeg wrote:And also as a friend of a manic depressive, the manic episodes are so much characterized by what I call (insensitively, I suppose)
the crazies. Total ebuillence, gaiety, confidence, colorful and racy clothes, on a mission about something du jour...
This is why I don't get the willowy blonde, especially for a male manic depressive.


This is what is off to me about the design. Psychology is such an incredibly interesting subject that I can't support a shirt that represents it... wrong.

Mania isn't butterflies and a pretty lady. Someone with mania is overconfident and excited, the dangerous kind of overconfident that alcohol can cause. They have constantly racing, changing thoughts and delusions.

Within mania I too find beauty, but it's hidden within the chaos and madness of it all.

Muntoe


quality posts: 9 Private Messages Muntoe
Re: The Two Sides of Madness

I don't really have any feelings about ramyb's designs anymore, I barely even check these derbies because I know what to expect. There's nothing fantastic about this shirt, but there's nothing exceedingly ugly either. Most of the time I just picture his stuff that preteen angst-filled kids from Hot Topic would wear.

Hammylink


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Hammylink
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I like the colors. The subtlety of the drawing makes it that much more rewarding when you go in for a closer look. Looks like the same pallete as "birth of the moon", but maybe a little darker.

______________________________________________

raevynpheather


quality posts: 0 Private Messages raevynpheather

I want to point out that I voted for this shirt because I would buy it and I think that it is one of only a few in this derby (like most) that is wearable (others include all of Drakxxx's shirts and Jewelwing's Ship).

[Mod: Snipped useless stuff]

ashtomorgo


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ashtomorgo
paigeg wrote:I've reserved comment on this shirt, too, because there is just so much hating going on for ramy and seki. Not that I think it's totally undeserved, but....
Anyhoo, I have to disagree on the 'idea' being amazing. I mean, maybe it is, but it certainly doesn't register with me the way it's described in the post. Madness, probably. But bi-polar? How does a willowy, busty blonde represent a male's manic side? I won't argue it isn't pretty - it is. But I just don't get it.


idk if this is what he intended, but for me, i see it as the women representing beauty and life, oppistie of the grim reaper representing darkness and death

drakeji


quality posts: 1 Private Messages drakeji
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


If this shirt prints, it's not going to look like anything. There's not enough contrast between the design and the shirt color.

Lamuril


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lamuril

Kudos to those standing up for ramyb when she/he (not sure of gender) did an awesome job on this shirt. When did woot become an anti-artist and not an anti-art website? How disappointing. This is a great shirt and honestly I like it WAY more than Drakxxx's My Little Box that looks like Alice from Alice in Wonderland (and excuse me, but after seeing the new Tim Burton version of the movie I think I've had enough Alice and her horrible character). Drak has his own theme of dark and a line drawing effect whereas ramyb has a more I dunno cell-shaded almost appearance and moreso than not a cutesy theme for her/his shirts.

Everyone always jumps to point out flaws with ramy's shirts when I notice Drak (sorry to pick on one artist, I just know he is popular so I'm using him as an example) has some flaws in his designs as well - just like everyone does. It's a stretch with some of the things that people nitpick with ramy's designs, too. It's annoying.

Thank you ramy for a great design. You've definitely GMV for a job well done. I can't find anything wrong with the shirt and I believe it's beautiful. Keep drawing and ignore all the anti-ramy people out there. Good artwork is appreciated, even when it doesn't win.

sacrerouge


quality posts: 18 Private Messages sacrerouge

There are a lot of details here, and maybe its just my monitor, but I think this would be better on a lighter shirt. Everything blends into the black too much.

MaliceKaiser


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MaliceKaiser

I have to say the design itself is much better than what Ramy usually submits. However, that's not saying much; a shape with cutesy chibi anime eyes on it is not hard to beat.
But honestly, it's an interesting concept that was not executed all that well. Sure, individual elements look okay (though unoriginal, and as someone else pointed out, probably taken from stock images). But all together, the design becomes a big shapeless mass and it's almost impossible to tell what anything is.

If this prints, I feel sorry for anybody who buys this shirt, because no one will be able to tell what it is you're wearing except for yourself. Think about it: If you're standing a few feet away from someone wearing this design, all you're going to see is a shiny blue blob on their chest. You'd have to really get close and stare down their torso in order to get an idea for what the hell is happening here.

brendon27


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brendon27

[Mod: Please don't feed the trolls]


"Can't we all just get along? Or have we forgotten the words of the Reverend King?"

jackmando7


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jackmando7

strange

johncreillyphile


quality posts: 0 Private Messages johncreillyphile
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


Is this on black or navy?

PandaPolka


quality posts: 0 Private Messages PandaPolka
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


absolute awesome, what a wearable

VIIIofXIII


quality posts: 0 Private Messages VIIIofXIII
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


So this is meant to represent what people who have no idea what being manic depressive is like think being manic depressive is like?

Because I'm manic depressive (bipolar II, technically), and this design has basically nothing to do with any real symptoms of either stage of the disorder. Bipolar people aren't Jekyll and Hyde, for crying out loud. This is the kind of thing Google is for.

anthrochick


quality posts: 0 Private Messages anthrochick
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


I finally figured out what it is about this design that makes me think Ramy is sitting back laughing at all of us. Nearly every part of this shirt seems to be an element in one of his previous designs. I don't mean they're just similar, I mean I think he literally took shapes he'd already created and pasted them all together than called it madness. Those butterflies have been used (and abused) in more than one past entry; that lady looks like the one from his "mystery" murder silhouette (the one with the book and the guy's brains being shot out); the sketchy Reaper may not be an exact replica of Ramy's previous Reapers but its awfully close (and i wouldn't be surprised if it is an exact copy). The rest of the stuff is just muddy filler and skulls.

Forgive me if someone further up the thread has already pointed these things out (I kind of hope they have, actually) but it seems like Ramy is just making fools out of those supporting him. Really? Are we this stupid around here?

And lest you defend these "similarities" as being part of his style, I would like to mention that similarities between designs are stylistic--but using the same images is not. This isn't like drawing a bunch of bunnies or turtles or cats that all look pretty close to the same; this is using the same bunny (or cat or turtle) and asking us to pretend its new.

SubBass49


quality posts: 3 Private Messages SubBass49
anthrochick wrote:I finally figured out what it is about this design that makes me think Ramy is sitting back laughing at all of us. Nearly every part of this shirt seems to be an element in one of his previous designs. I don't mean they're just similar, I mean I think he literally took shapes he'd already created and pasted them all together than called it madness. Those butterflies have been used (and abused) in more than one past entry; that lady looks like the one from his "mystery" murder silhouette (the one with the book and the guy's brains being shot out); the sketchy Reaper may not be an exact replica of Ramy's previous Reapers but its awfully close (and i wouldn't be surprised if it is an exact copy). The rest of the stuff is just muddy filler and skulls.

Forgive me if someone further up the thread has already pointed these things out (I kind of hope they have, actually) but it seems like Ramy is just making fools out of those supporting him. Really? Are we this stupid around here?

And lest you defend these "similarities" as being part of his style, I would like to mention that similarities between designs are stylistic--but using the same images is not. This isn't like drawing a bunch of bunnies or turtles or cats that all look pretty close to the same; this is using the same bunny (or cat or turtle) and asking us to pretend its new.


You just made me think...

What if this is a statement on his/her OWN madness??? The use of pre-existing designs, mashed together, attempting to screw with our minds...the idea of repetition...the true definition of madness is repeating something over and over that doesn't work, right? Maybe this is pieces of his/her losing designs (things that didn't work) thrown back into a hodge-podge, the person @ the bottom representing the artist.

(whew...reminds me of art classes in college...critique day for the win!)

juliaL719


quality posts: 0 Private Messages juliaL719
VIIIofXIII wrote:So this is meant to represent what people who have no idea what being manic depressive is like think being manic depressive is like?

Because I'm manic depressive (bipolar II, technically), and this design has basically nothing to do with any real symptoms of either stage of the disorder. Bipolar people aren't Jekyll and Hyde, for crying out loud. This is the kind of thing Google is for.


I am, too. Hence why I was so bothered by the butterflies/death mess.

Mania is not just euphoria - it's almost like you've got someone else's brain in your head and that brain is saying GO GO GO YOU MUST. This manifests in often dangerous or obsessive behavior - binge drinking and vacuuming the same spot for a couple hours - rearranging every item of furniture because you HAVE TO.

And depression's not just a death thing - it's like your mind collapses into itself. You're in pain and misery, but can't explain it.

Not a particularly pretty thing to draw.

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987
Lamuril wrote:Kudos to those standing up for ramyb when she/he (not sure of gender) did an awesome job on this shirt.


I guess you're anti-critiquing, then?

Everyone always jumps to point out flaws with ramy's shirts when I notice Drak (sorry to pick on one artist, I just know he is popular so I'm using him as an example) snip


People don't nitpick drakxxx because his designs pretty much never merit nitpicking. Can you point to a number of legitimate design flaws (muddled colors, indiscernible structure and images, etc.) in ANY drakxxx design? The complaints against this design aren't nitpicking. They're pretty damn obvious and significant. And we've seen them time and time again from Ramy. People aren't arbitrarily picking on him.


When did woot become an anti-artist and not an anti-art website? snip


No one is anti-artist, or anti-style. The people who have criticized this design are anti-shirts that are indiscernible blobs. It has nothing to do with being against any particular style.

banzaaiii


quality posts: 0 Private Messages banzaaiii
jmmbell1987 wrote:I guess you're anti-critiquing, then?


the question you should really be asking is: "why do i bother getting upset over ramy designs week after week?", and you might try this one as well: "is my bickering over these designs doing any good?"

i cant help you with the first one, but the answer to the second is a definite "no".

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
banzaaiii wrote:the question you should really be asking is: "why do i bother getting upset over ramy designs week after week?", and you might try this one as well: "is my bickering over these designs doing any good?"

i cant help you with the first one, but the answer to the second is a definite "no".


Do you not see that you are doing the EXACT SAME THING??!!

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
jmmbell1987 wrote:No one is anti-artist, or anti-style. The people who have criticized this design are anti-shirts that are indiscernible blobs. It has nothing to do with being against any particular style.


This comment is untrue. There are THOUSANDS of anti-artist wooters. Hence this design being in the fog at all. It cannot be called artistic. It's the same damn thing as always.

there are many many wooters who only ever praise a very small, very generic, very untalented subset of this site, and then spend the rest of their time implying the people who expect good work to win do nothing but complain and troll (though anyone who paid attention to the site would know such people DO regularly praise work, while the others literally only exist to support the worst of the worst).

It's obvious woot doesn't care. They have no desire to respect anyone except the ignorant masses and multiple fake accounts. Which is all the more reason we have to. So long as trolls are calling intelligent, factual art critique trolling, we have to fight if we truly care about intelligence and quality.

fairnymph


quality posts: 55 Private Messages fairnymph
drakeji wrote:If this shirt prints, it's not going to look like anything. There's not enough contrast between the design and the shirt color.


I have a couple shirts with similar colour palettes on black and I think they print nicely. And you don't always WANT a ton of contrast, either -sometimes a bit of blending can look awesome, IMO.

My Cellar * Read my ramblings on LiveJournal.

79 wine.woots, 42 shirt.woots, 18 woots, 3 sellout.woots, 1 kids.woot

"I like my Sirah like I like my women: young, Petite and inky." - Thralow on CT

fairnymph


quality posts: 55 Private Messages fairnymph
AdderXYU wrote:This comment is untrue. There are THOUSANDS of anti-artist wooters. Hence this design being in the fog at all. It cannot be called artistic. It's the same damn thing as always.

there are many many wooters who only ever praise a very small, very generic, very untalented subset of this site, and then spend the rest of their time implying the people who expect good work to win do nothing but complain and troll (though anyone who paid attention to the site would know such people DO regularly praise work, while the others literally only exist to support the worst of the worst).

It's obvious woot doesn't care. They have no desire to respect anyone except the ignorant masses and multiple fake accounts. Which is all the more reason we have to. So long as trolls are calling intelligent, factual art critique trolling, we have to fight if we truly care about intelligence and quality.


You obviously feel very differently than I about this shirt, and I won't assume that you are grouping me with the 'anti-artists' for liking this shirt and voting for it...but, please, do realise that people can like a variety of styles and it doesn't make them anti-artist or mindless trolls or whatever. If you pay attention to my comments, you'll note that I try to be very fair and I comment much more about designs I like than those I dislike.

There can be discussion without b*tching and moaning, and that's a good thing!

My Cellar * Read my ramblings on LiveJournal.

79 wine.woots, 42 shirt.woots, 18 woots, 3 sellout.woots, 1 kids.woot

"I like my Sirah like I like my women: young, Petite and inky." - Thralow on CT

Zarfus


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Zarfus
kylemittskus wrote:It is literally UNBELIEVABLE that this is in the fog.

I hate to do this since it's actually been a while since anything "weird" has happened but... come on! Out of nowhere, this comes into the fog when there is a marked absence of people who claim to love this shirt. Obviously, there are a few, but nowhere near the normal number.


How is this any less artistic than this:
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40653

Judging from your comment on that shirt, you're still all wet from that experience.

Just because it has less colors, and you can actually TELL what's going on here...you think this doesn't deserve to be in the fog?

It's annoying how people continue to hate on EVERYTHING ramy submits. I like this design. Would I wear it? No. But I think there's been a lot of subpar shirts for sale lately.

It's clear that a lot of people just like ramy's shirts. They come to vote for it, leave, and avoid this little war going on beneath it.

drakeji


quality posts: 1 Private Messages drakeji
fairnymph wrote:I have a couple shirts with similar colour palettes on black and I think they print nicely. And you don't always WANT a ton of contrast, either -sometimes a bit of blending can look awesome, IMO.


Guess it comes down to personal preference. I'm really disappointed in the one I have with a similar color palette and wouldn't buy another one.

genericsmith


quality posts: 15 Private Messages genericsmith
Zarfus wrote:How is this any less artistic than this:
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40653

Judging from your comment on that shirt, you're still all wet from that experience.

Just because it has less colors, and you can actually TELL what's going on here...you think this doesn't deserve to be in the fog?


I actually wasn't a huge fan on edgar's piece either

BUT

I don't know if you CAN actually tell what's going on here.

I mean SURE there's a guy shooting lighting from his eyes that turns into death and a hot chick... and birds / butterflies (made of hair) and skulls... plus tons of random scribbles.

Plus it seems like it'll be difficult to tell what's going on if it prints.

just my $0.02

Munchy Attack If you can find the name of this artist & real song title I'll buy you a daily woot shirt (your choice what day)

Dystopia Dark Lager, Where the Wild Parties at?, B.A. Bearacus, and many more wanted in XXL(PLEASE!!!)
Edgar Allen Poe shall remained headlock'd until Nevermore is reckoned.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
Zarfus wrote:How is this any less artistic than this:
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40653

Judging from your comment on that shirt, you're still all wet from that experience.

Just because it has less colors, and you can actually TELL what's going on here...you think this doesn't deserve to be in the fog?


First of all, A+ for maturity. And the difference is that Edgar's shirt is original, thought out, and well executed. This shirt, as many have posted, is none of those things. Every image (or at least most) have been used in the past by him. There was no thought whatsoever because if there was, ramyb would think, "wow, no one can see what the F is going on in this shirt." And the colors -- while I don't need drastic contrast -- are going to mesh together, looking as if there is a splotch on the shirt instead of a design.

Your argument seems to be: there are other bad shirts that have printed so let this one pass too. I have posted on the dailies that I think were poorly done (today's with the poor punctuation, for example) and I have also commented on shirts that I think are poor that have the possibility of printing.

It's not that I dislike Ramyb's style (although I do); I'm just sick of seeing the exact same image with the exact same colors every god damned week (blue and swirly). It's boring and it was hackneyed ages ago.

He has now plagiarized his own shirts for this one whereas in the past, he only plagiarized others.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987
Zarfus wrote:How is this any less artistic than this:
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40653


Edgar's design is an original idea with execution that, while not everyone's taste, is still impeccable and vibrant. I can certainly see why many wouldn't want to wear it, but it's a wonderful bit of work, utterly odd and interesting.

Ramy's is a muddled batch of cliches, with the half-assed execution we see time and time again from him. If you can't tell the difference, I can't begin to know what to say to you.

jmmbell1987


quality posts: 78 Private Messages jmmbell1987
banzaaiii wrote:the question you should really be asking is: "why do i bother getting upset over ramy designs week after week?", and you might try this one as well: "is my bickering over these designs doing any good?"

i cant help you with the first one, but the answer to the second is a definite "no".


I don't really get upset with Ramy's designs in and of themselves, but it's annoying when they win.

I post because it's a message board, so why the hell not? If only posts that did anyone any good were allowed, than there'd be no point in posting a damn thing, other than the odd critique.

Except that's what people do with Ramy, and his defenders freak out. They may be harsh critiques, but they're critiques.

That's foolish logic, and does nothing to address the main point. I mean, why even converse with anyone unless the purpose is to "do any good"? That's one of the weakest retorts I see bandied about on this site, and amounts to little more than a childish "I'm not listening!" It's a classic strawman.

MalcheiorSveth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MalcheiorSveth
darkfireradiant wrote:I do really like it, but maybe not as a shirt. I could see it more as a poster. I think you could take this and maybe twink it a little more t-shirty. Add some more contrast like someone said, make the designs pop out. Maybe take away some of the background noise. Maybe it could be used for more of a dream or imagination, madness doesn't really cover it. Still kudos for designing better than me.


I agree, I love the design, but it's something that would need to be printed much larger than shirt size to be effective.

dualwielder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dualwielder
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


This looks like something I'd find on a holographic sticker in Hot Topic.

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
AdderXYU wrote:This comment is untrue. There are THOUSANDS of anti-artist wooters. Hence this design being in the fog at all. It cannot be called artistic. It's the same damn thing as always.


Adder, you're a really pretty cool dude from where I'm lounging, but your pompous attitude and assertion that YOU define what is and isn't art has be old from the get-go. Let it go, whatever is drawn on a piece of paper is art, no matter how terrible it is, no matter who did it, no matter why they did it.

Art isn't a magical world of fantastical creativity and good intentions. It's just art, and to box its definition to fit only what you deem good is just as closed-minded as the opinions you counter every day on this forum.

GNitro


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GNitro

I think the problem here is the fact some refuse to admit that there are people who are just anti-ramy. They don't care how good his stuff is, but because designs they wanted to win lost to a Ramy design they didn't like, they have amassed animosity towards him.

As for me, I vote and buy on stuff I want to wear. I've seen a lot of great artistic works (yes many better than Ramy), but I just don't always feel they are something I would wear on a shirt.

There's just no reason to accuse someone of cheating to get votes or bash his work. People claim they are just criticizing, but there is a way to critique work without being an ass about it.

ctdemonet


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ctdemonet
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


That's a really sweet design! Must have taken a while. Got my +1

myeroshalmi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages myeroshalmi

I absolutely love this design.
If this makes it I am for sure buying one and completely disagree with everyone else who seems to be giving you such a hard time.
I like the fact that the line between the two elements is blurred and that its hard to pick out alll the elements but if you try you still can.
No it isnt a cutesy shirt but the design is awesome.
Would it be possible to get a high res shot of this because if it doesnt make it I definitly want it as a poster or background or something.
It is amazing and you did a fantastic job!

2thFairy


quality posts: 2 Private Messages 2thFairy

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
AdderXYU wrote:This comment is untrue. There are THOUSANDS of anti-artist wooters. Hence this design being in the fog at all. It cannot be called artistic. It's the same damn thing as always.

there are many many wooters who only ever praise a very small, very generic, very untalented subset of this site, and then spend the rest of their time implying the people who expect good work to win do nothing but complain and troll (though anyone who paid attention to the site would know such people DO regularly praise work, while the others literally only exist to support the worst of the worst).

It's obvious woot doesn't care. They have no desire to respect anyone except the ignorant masses and multiple fake accounts. Which is all the more reason we have to. So long as trolls are calling intelligent, factual art critique trolling, we have to fight if we truly care about intelligence and quality.


Oh, Adder, please keep on trying to tell people what is art and what is not. How stupendously ignorant to the very concept of what art is.

MiThRaZoR


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MiThRaZoR
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


If this shirt doesn't win, I'm coming to skeet all over whoever didn't vote for this shirt.

JRWorkshop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JRWorkshop
MiThRaZoR wrote:If this shirt doesn't win, I'm coming to skeet all over whoever didn't vote for this shirt.


Well... Start cuz nothing is gonna make me vote for this C.R.4.P


PotatoLegs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages PotatoLegs

azdarkknight


quality posts: 5 Private Messages azdarkknight
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


Is this the madness you get from woot voters perhaps? +1 from me anyway.

do you have a website with your stuff on Drakxxx (yes, Im a fan)?

AliCat713


quality posts: 1 Private Messages AliCat713
azdarkknight wrote:Is this the madness you get from woot voters perhaps? +1 from me anyway.

do you have a website with your stuff on Drakxxx (yes, Im a fan)?


I get the feeling that Ramyb was trying for a Drakxxx feeling with this, but as others have said, this is just a mess.

Kudos for doing something that's not cutesy bunnies or turtles or featureless lumps of kawaii, but it does look a lot like you've incorporated other pieces of your older shirts (reaper, butterflies, etc) and slapped them on under spackling and called it a day.

I'm sad, because this had potential, and even more upset that with all your possible potential, you still seem to strive for mediocrity with the knowledge that whatever is most mainstream and blah will get the most votes.

A1ch3misT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages A1ch3misT

hmm very nice imo

mikenytola


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mikenytola
JaundiceDave wrote:Oh, Adder, please keep on trying to tell people what is art and what is not. How stupendously ignorant to the very concept of what art is.

I personally don't like this design for many reasons, but... I do like your statement.

fixbane


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fixbane
Re: The Two Sides of Madness


how did this not get first i'm so confused

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