Derby #157: Reinterpreting Famous Art Titles
+718

The Discovery of fire

The Discovery of fire
add a comment

Comments

radiomode


quality posts: 3 Private Messages radiomode
Re: The Discovery of fire


This is a phoenix based on Magritte's painting.
Phoenix and fire come in one package

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 225 Private Messages Spiritgreen
Re: The Discovery of fire


Wow. Is this all digital or did you use actual paints in making this at all?

So much energy. :^)

cosmiccow


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cosmiccow
Re: The Discovery of fire


Good design, well drawn. I'm having trouble figuring out how this is a reinterpretation of the original, or even a play on the title, though.

cosmiccow


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cosmiccow

I do really like it though. It's impressive.

walmazan


quality posts: 65 Private Messages walmazan
Re: The Discovery of fire


How do you do your work? It's and amazing piece!

Congrats, you allways at the top!

radiomode


quality posts: 3 Private Messages radiomode
cosmiccow wrote:Good design, well drawn. I'm having trouble figuring out how this is a reinterpretation of the original, or even a play on the title, though.


It's a phoenix. Phoenix and fire?

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
radiomode wrote:It's a phoenix. Phoenix and fire?


But, how many Phoenix shirts has woot already printed? 2, 3? more?

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
Josephus wrote:But, how many Phoenix shirts has woot already printed? 2, 3? more?


Have they?

camoor


quality posts: 1 Private Messages camoor
Re: The Discovery of fire


Awesome. This better win.

effiew


quality posts: 0 Private Messages effiew
Josephus wrote:But, how many Phoenix shirts has woot already printed? 2, 3? more?


Does it matter if it's a good design?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 234 Private Messages kylemittskus
effiew wrote:Does it matter if it's a good design?


It should.

But here at shirt.woot, it doesn't.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

IggySorcha


quality posts: 6 Private Messages IggySorcha
Re: The Discovery of fire

I really hope this wins. I'm a costumer/seamstress on the side and I've been wanting to make a T-shirt dress, this would be perfect to base it around.

fabgab


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fabgab
Josephus wrote:But, how many Phoenix shirts has woot already printed? 2, 3? more?


Pfft. So why was Lithium in the top this week when Carbon won last week? :P

I haven't seen a phoenix shirt in a long while. And you can NEVER have enough phoenix shirts!

I love this shirt, btw.

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
albinoapple wrote:Have they?


Oh god, yes...
Derby pieces:

Phoenix Rising
- RamyB & Zenne collab (line derby)

Life Renewed
- TheInfinityLoop (beginning derby)

The Original Recycler
- patrickspens (bird derby)

Non-derby piece:
Phoenix Rising
- MissMonster


and about 10X that in non-winning entries...

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
fabgab wrote:Pfft. So why was Lithium in the top this week when Carbon won last week? :P


I can't begin to give you enough cynical yet probably correct reasons

lucky1988


quality posts: 20 Private Messages lucky1988
Re: The Discovery of fire


Looks fabulous on the shirt! +1

tulsastorm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tulsastorm
JadenKale wrote:Oh god, yes...
Derby pieces:

Phoenix Rising
- RamyB & Zenne collab (line derby)

Life Renewed
- TheInfinityLoop (beginning derby)

The Original Recycler
- patrickspens (bird derby)

Non-derby piece:
Phoenix Rising
- MissMonster


and about 10X that in non-winning entries...


Except for "The Original Recycler" (reckoned on March 1), they haven't been available in over a year.

I'm not a fan of black shirts anyway. Colorwise, this one is very similar to MissMonster's design. MissMonster's phoenix looks like a cross between a chicken and a goldfish which is why I didn't purchase it. This one is much more graceful.

effiew


quality posts: 0 Private Messages effiew
kylemittskus wrote:It should.

But here at shirt.woot, it doesn't.


Why? I'm not trying to be obnoxious, it's an earnest question.

From a capitalistic view-point it makes sense to create/print an image that will have broad appeal because more people will vote for/buy it.

From an artistic standpoint, it can be rewarding to add your own style and voice to familiar, iconic imagery. It's the same reason really good songs have so many covers.

I'm not saying that originality shouldn't be encouraged, but if something has been done before I can't see why it would be bad to do it again as long as the new one is different enough to stand alone.

lindal33


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lindal33
It's simply beautiful.

Re: The Discovery of fire

animatedbox


quality posts: 2 Private Messages animatedbox
Re: The Discovery of fire


You guys are complaining because phoenix shirts keep coming back around?

That seems almost.... ironic?

Whatevs. GMV

052hagen


quality posts: 0 Private Messages 052hagen
Re: The Discovery of fire


Looks like animals on fire (yes I know this is the phoenix) is the in-theme this derby. I love it!

pchitre


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pchitre
Seriously, This better win.


Re: The Discovery of fire

DivineAna


quality posts: 9 Private Messages DivineAna
effiew wrote:Why? I'm not trying to be obnoxious, it's an earnest question.

From a capitalistic view-point it makes sense to create/print an image that will have broad appeal because more people will vote for/buy it.

From an artistic standpoint, it can be rewarding to add your own style and voice to familiar, iconic imagery. It's the same reason really good songs have so many covers.

I'm not saying that originality shouldn't be encouraged, but if something has been done before I can't see why it would be bad to do it again as long as the new one is different enough to stand alone.


OK, but in order for printing a shirt design to be profitable, Woot has to print them in bulk. Say there are three phoenix designs that get voted to the top at one time. Unfortunately, when it comes to buying, not everyone who voted is going to buy the shirt. In fact, all 700 of the people who voted for these three phoenix designs all decide to buy different shirts, so about 200 of each design gets sold, when Woot printed, at minimum, 500 shirts. So now they have 300 left over of each shirt, and no buyers on the horizon.

If, instead, they print one phoenix design, everyone who's interested in the phoenix design buys that one shirt-- and all 500 or so prints sell out.

Remember that high votes don't always translate into high sales. Keep on eye on the reckoning page, and sometimes you'll see designs that were voted first one week vanish the next from poor sales, while designs that came in third stick around for weeks and weeks. Furthermore, Woot is trying to appeal to people who don't vote in derbies as well-- people who presumably look at the phoenix shirt and say, "It's nice and all, but I bought a phoenix shirt the last time they printed one, and I'm not trying to earn the office nickname of Phoenix-Boy, so I think I won't buy this one,".

hannaz92


quality posts: 0 Private Messages hannaz92
DivineAna wrote:OK, but in order for printing a shirt design to be profitable, Woot has to print them in bulk. Say there are three phoenix designs that get voted to the top at one time. Unfortunately, when it comes to buying, not everyone who voted is going to buy the shirt. In fact, all 700 of the people who voted for these three phoenix designs all decide to buy different shirts, so about 200 of each design gets sold, when Woot printed, at minimum, 500 shirts. So now they have 300 left over of each shirt, and no buyers on the horizon.

If, instead, they print one phoenix design, everyone who's interested in the phoenix design buys that one shirt-- and all 500 or so prints sell out.

Remember that high votes don't always translate into high sales. Keep on eye on the reckoning page, and sometimes you'll see designs that were voted first one week vanish the next from poor sales, while designs that came in third stick around for weeks and weeks. Furthermore, Woot is trying to appeal to people who don't vote in derbies as well-- people who presumably look at the phoenix shirt and say, "It's nice and all, but I bought a phoenix shirt the last time they printed one, and I'm not trying to earn the office nickname of Phoenix-Boy, so I think I won't buy this one,".


And what about the people who missed the other phoenix's. I mean if you like phoenix's alot, you won't mind another one. Since this one is pretty different from most of the others printed by woot...

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
DivineAna wrote:OK, but in order for printing a shirt design to be profitable, Woot has to print them in bulk. Say there are three phoenix designs that get voted to the top at one time. Unfortunately, when it comes to buying, not everyone who voted is going to buy the shirt. In fact, all 700 of the people who voted for these three phoenix designs all decide to buy different shirts, so about 200 of each design gets sold, when Woot printed, at minimum, 500 shirts. So now they have 300 left over of each shirt, and no buyers on the horizon.

If, instead, they print one phoenix design, everyone who's interested in the phoenix design buys that one shirt-- and all 500 or so prints sell out.

Remember that high votes don't always translate into high sales. Keep on eye on the reckoning page, and sometimes you'll see designs that were voted first one week vanish the next from poor sales, while designs that came in third stick around for weeks and weeks. Furthermore, Woot is trying to appeal to people who don't vote in derbies as well-- people who presumably look at the phoenix shirt and say, "It's nice and all, but I bought a phoenix shirt the last time they printed one, and I'm not trying to earn the office nickname of Phoenix-Boy, so I think I won't buy this one,".


Your logic fails when you look at the fact that the last phoenix shirt to print was almost exactly a year ago. ;P

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
albinoapple wrote:Your logic fails when you look at the fact that the last phoenix shirt to print was almost exactly a year ago. ;P


Regardless of the right or wrong of printing another boring phoenix tee, "the last one printed a year ago" is no argument. The last shirt about a neon pink monster on a scooter was printed almost three years ago. Similar shirts should be rejected.

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
AdderXYU wrote:Regardless of the right or wrong of printing another boring phoenix tee, "the last one printed a year ago" is no argument. The last shirt about a neon pink monster on a scooter was printed almost three years ago. Similar shirts should be rejected.


Wuuh, it's a mythological creature, yeah a similar shirt's gonna exist. A smilar shirt will always exist no matter WHAT creature is on it. The idea and concept is so basic you can't police it.

My point was, how can you argue that the market on woot is saturated with pheonix tees when the last (and only one I think?) was printed a year ago.

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

albinoapple wrote:Wuuh, it's a mythological creature, yeah a similar shirt's gonna exist. A smilar shirt will always exist no matter WHAT creature is on it. The idea and concept is so basic you can't police it.


I've thought a lot about "similar shirts exist" and how the lines are drawn on that. I've come to this conclusion based off my own opinion (not necessarily how woot calls them or doesn't):

To me there are (very broadly) two types of designs. The first type is a design that incorporates a single element or idea. For instance Dragon, Phoenix, Skull, Argyle, or Bird. To me this is a "style" shirt. Yes, there are a million shirts with dragons on them, but this is this artist's take on it. In the case of the single element shirt it's not the concept that needs to be judged, but the style and appearance. Does it look too much like another shirt? If so then it should probably be rejected. Otherwise it's simply the artist's take on that single topic.

The second type of shirt is the concept shirt. This is when you start juxtaposing elements together. A phoenix riding a dragon. A penguin playing with a Yo-Yo. Suddenly you're into the realm of concepts and "similar shirts exist" gets much dicier. To me that's when concept should be the main focus point in considering rejections, not style.

As far as this shirt's concerned, I think it falls in the first category and has to be judged on whether or not it looks too much like another shirt. It may or may not, I don't really know, but if I were making the judgment call that's what I'd base it off of rather than subject matter.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
albinoapple wrote:Wuuh, it's a mythological creature, yeah a similar shirt's gonna exist. A smilar shirt will always exist no matter WHAT creature is on it. The idea and concept is so basic you can't police it.

My point was, how can you argue that the market on woot is saturated with pheonix tees when the last (and only one I think?) was printed a year ago.


And my point simply was that when a shirt printed is totally meaningless in determining whether another tee is frivolous. Whether this phoenix shirt is worthy of printing or not is 100% independent of how long ago the last one printed, and 100% dependent on whether this is at all an original, attractive design worth printing.

As derbies go, always remember that entry saturation means a lot, even if wins seem slimmer. If we get a Valkyrie in the top 5 every week, people are going to get sick of seeing them, even if they never print.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 234 Private Messages kylemittskus
tgentry wrote: snip


I think that this is very well reasoned. I think I agree, although even if I ultimately don't after mulling it over, I think that you presented it well and logically.

The problem with a style shirt -- which I agree this fits into -- is that it becomes increasingly difficult to create a new take on such a used and over-used image like the phoenix. (This is anent the over-all discussion, not your post.)

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
AdderXYU wrote:And my point simply was that when a shirt printed is totally meaningless in determining whether another tee is frivolous. Whether this phoenix shirt is worthy of printing or not is 100% independent of how long ago the last one printed, and 100% dependent on whether this is at all an original, attractive design worth printing.

I agree that the important parts of woot derbies are originality, artistic merit, and quality. I personally see this shirt as artistic and unique, mostly because of the paint splattering technique and the fact that the bird looks more like a dove than an eagle, which is something I don't often see about phoenixes.

AdderXYU wrote:As derbies go, always remember that entry saturation means a lot, even if wins seem slimmer. If we get a Valkyrie in the top 5 every week, people are going to get sick of seeing them, even if they never print.

You're right, I didn't take entries into account. I'm not going to look back into 10 derbies to check but I don't recall ever seeing as many phoenix entries as you're implying that there are.

pixmith


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pixmith
Re: The Discovery of fire


feels like the graphics should be moved up a bit so the sings almost tough the shoulders and span the neckline!!! but awesome art!

jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
Re: The Discovery of fire

Love the colors and the painted style is gorgeous!


myndii


quality posts: 0 Private Messages myndii
JadenKale wrote:

Phoenix Rising
- RamyB & Zenne collab (line derby)

Life Renewed
- TheInfinityLoop (beginning derby)

The Original Recycler
- patrickspens (bird derby)

Non-derby piece:
Phoenix Rising
- MissMonster


and about 10X that in non-winning entries...


I saw each of these pieces when they were on sale, and I did not like the style of any of them (granted, I might've gone for patrickspens's design if it weren't for those hideous blue arrows).

So frankly, I like this design, am glad that it's in the cloud, and will probably buy one if it prints.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
Re: The Discovery of fire


I like this, but the one thing that is bothering me is that is too obvious that you used the same photoshop brush a few times. It's the repeating of of the larger blobs, with no variation that does it. It's really killing the design for me.





albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple

Ah, I just noticed JadenKale's post! That is an awful lot of phoenix shirts. Still might buy it though, if I like a shirt then I like it. I was around for all of those shirts, and I just didn't want any of them. I guess in my mind that makes this one different from the rest!

whisperingsiren


quality posts: 0 Private Messages whisperingsiren
AdderXYU wrote:Regardless of the right or wrong of printing another boring phoenix tee, "the last one printed a year ago" is no argument. The last shirt about a neon pink monster on a scooter was printed almost three years ago. Similar shirts should be rejected.


I've only been on a few weeks. I happen to like this shirt, and couldn't have gotten any of the previous. This is also the only of the phoenix shirts I would have bought. That's how different it is. What, then, would you say to somebody like me?

dmkooo


quality posts: 10 Private Messages dmkooo
Re: The Discovery of fire


Reminds me of "freebird"

http://xkcd.com/556/

camilium


quality posts: 0 Private Messages camilium

want to buy this... is it printed somewhere?

jeeeperz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jeeeperz

Where can I buy one of those?!

More Derby Entries

By date:

By rank:

Thumbnail