Derby #169: Phobias
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Fear of the Dark

Fear of the Dark
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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb

kdubbs29


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kdubbs29
ramyb wrote:saved


I'm afraid she looks more confident than afraid.

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 225 Private Messages Spiritgreen
Re: Fear of the Dark


Sweet use of reds and foggy blues. Your colors are always really clever. :^)

ronzalone


quality posts: 4 Private Messages ronzalone
kdubbs29 wrote:I'm afraid she looks more confident than afraid.


Yeah. I kinda see what you're going for, but I don't see any mark of phobia in this or even just fear.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
ronzalone wrote:Yeah. I kinda see what you're going for, but I don't see any mark of phobia in this or even just fear.


When you are afraid of the dark, the shadows start to take on shapes. The idea was that she is in no danger, but feels that she is being followed in the shadows. She is trying to remain calm but is clutching her basket tightly. I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf. Hopefully this comes through in the design

frik


quality posts: 1 Private Messages frik
Re: Fear of the Dark


I can't imagine this printing very well. I'd expect that you'd ulimately end up with a dark shirt with a few splotches of red on it.

No. Yes.

Paradox55


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Paradox55
ramyb wrote:When you are afraid of the dark, the shadows start to take on shapes. The idea was that she is in no danger, but feels that she is being followed in the shadows. She is trying to remain calm but is clutching her basket tightly. I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf. Hopefully this comes through in the design


It doesn't.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: Fear of the Dark


The body language of the girl is confident. Open-legged stance, no clutching of chest, arms are rather open, and her facial expression appears to be a smirk.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Doonyal


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Doonyal
Re: Fear of the Dark


i like it. the only thing though is that how you did her face looks like she has a smug look, like im not afraid, you cant get me. So....maybe a phobia but learning to stand up to it? lol idk my take i guess.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
Doonyal wrote:i like it. the only thing though is that how you did her face looks like she has a smug look, like im not afraid, you cant get me. So....maybe a phobia but learning to stand up to it? lol idk my take i guess.


The theme is to illustrate a phobia. The girl is obviously not afraid. She's confident.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
Re: Fear of the Dark


This is actually . . . not bad. More this, less recycled bunnies.

The highest compliment I can give this design is that, completely tossing out past behavior/entries (which woot would like us to do, b/c apparently their utopia is my idea of an Orwellian monstrosity where the past is outlawed from all deliberations) I would say that I like this and would perhaps even vote for it.

I get what you're saying with the theme, ramyb, but I'm not getting the sense from the piece that the girl is exhibiting false bravado. If anything, the subtle half-smile indicates--to me anyway--a quiet confidence. Still, if all I can pin on you in a given week is questionable adherence to theme, then I consider myself lucky. And since woot generally has trouble enforcing theme, I don't really see a rejection for this design happening.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
kylemittskus wrote:The theme is to illustrate a phobia. The girl is obviously not afraid. She's confident.


She's holding her hood over her face to keep herself from looking- when you are afraid of the dark, it is a common thing to try to look away, but feel that it is closing in on you. I'm not sure why you see a smug expression, but to me she is frowning.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
IndependentVik wrote:This is actually . . . not bad.


I'm glad I was able to surprise you this week :P (I was planning to PM you later btw)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
ramyb wrote:She's holding her hood over her face to keep herself from looking- when you are afraid of the dark, it is a common thing to try to look away, but feel that it is closing in on you. I'm not sure why you see a smug expression, but to me she is frowning.


a) it doesn't look like she's holding her hood. The angles are awkward for that. It looks like she's holding her basket with her arm up like people so often do.
b) frowning is not fear.
c) her stance is still a very confident one. There's no movement, i.e.: she's not running, or even moving quickly. Instead, she is stationary, standing her ground with a very strong posture = the opposite of fear.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

capitalsown


quality posts: 1 Private Messages capitalsown
Re: Fear of the Dark


Oh look, a ramyb design that is actually different. Congratulations, I actually had to click the entry to tell it was you this time. I'd actually consider getting this shirt. Also, I thought it was a smirk at first, but it's just a result of her mouth being sort of hard to make out. Upon closer inspection, it's more of an expression of uneasiness (her mouth is cocked down). But still, on the thumbnail it definitely looks like a smirk.

frik


quality posts: 1 Private Messages frik
ramyb wrote:When you are afraid of the dark, the shadows start to take on shapes. The idea was that she is in no danger, but feels that she is being followed in the shadows. She is trying to remain calm but is clutching her basket tightly. I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf. Hopefully this comes through in the design


Ok, this is just confusing me. Then why'd you draw the wolf with the red eye starting to emerge from teh shadows? And I do have to agree with most that the girl does not exhibit any feeling of fear rather confidence or I guess an ignorance of the surroundings. I suppose your explanation will be enough for the rejectionator, cause your intent may not show through in the drawing, but not every artist or attempted artist is successful at that.

No. Yes.

jxchen


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jxchen
Re: Fear of the Dark


This is fairly well done, I quite enjoy the mood and color usage. The girl's pose does seem a bit more confident than one would typically strike when in fear, but it is a dynamic pose that is interesting to look at. The wolf feels a bit unfinished. Overall very good, particularly the environment.

albinoapple


quality posts: 2 Private Messages albinoapple
ramyb wrote:She's holding her hood over her face to keep herself from looking- when you are afraid of the dark, it is a common thing to try to look away, but feel that it is closing in on you. I'm not sure why you see a smug expression, but to me she is frowning.


I see a smirk, too.

forstycup


quality posts: 0 Private Messages forstycup
Re: Fear of the Dark


Are the other larger red splotches supposed to represent more eyes and or creatures forming from the shadows?

If so, giving them some features would have conveyed that better in my opinion. Also to add to a previous comment, I agree that some of the details might be hard to pick out because of how dark the majority of the piece is. If you could add a bit more contrast between the dark greys and the black and make the features pop more, I think that would help.

Cool design regardless of my perceived flaws with it.

paintmymusic


quality posts: 0 Private Messages paintmymusic

I wonder what comments would be left on this if the artist identity wasn't revealed. I like this design and the subtle message behind it.

synshyn


quality posts: 0 Private Messages synshyn
Re: Fear of the Dark


Perhaps its the resolution on my craptop but I'm having some difficulties picking out the wolf and I'm a little concerned it won't show up well on the actual shirt. If it was possible to draw that aspect of the design out more, it may be worthwhile.

That being said, I like this. Good job! I'm not really seeing a smirk, and I like how you did the background forest. I agree with a previous poster...more this, less bunneez.

DPMStudent2013


quality posts: 0 Private Messages DPMStudent2013

Keep it up ramy, if your work wasn't solid, it wouldn't sell

what up

marzipanapple


quality posts: 7 Private Messages marzipanapple
kdubbs29 wrote:I'm afraid she looks more confident than afraid.


Ramy, I'd have to agree with this. The way she's standing makes it look as though it's confidence she's feeling and not fear. If she were mid-walk or cowering slightly..

I do like the colors you've used for the background and the depth/darkness you've created. Not a big fan of this design though.

dougblair3


quality posts: 2 Private Messages dougblair3

Cool design, but I agree with the others that her posturing shows no sign of a phobia.

zekecatz


quality posts: 202 Private Messages zekecatz
Re: Fear of the Dark


At first glance I thought it was Link.

Revster1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Revster1
Paradox55 wrote:It doesn't.


I disagree! I think the exaggeration of the wolf's features, its size and glowing red evil eyes, shows the fear is an irrational fear of the dark rather than a fear of a wolf. I think it works well since the story of red riding hood she isnt afraid of the wolf, her mother worries about her, but she is whimsically confident. The fear is our own maybe, what we imagine will happen to her in the dark.

I like it! GMV!

Vickinator


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Vickinator
Re: Fear of the Dark


I like the concept, but she definitely looks confident and unafraid here. It's all about her stance.

LunaMoth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages LunaMoth
Re: Fear of the Dark


I like this! Its actually drawn well, unlike half the stuff here, and i get the fear, i get the paranoia, its subtle and makes you think.

H2ORip


quality posts: 1 Private Messages H2ORip
Re: Fear of the Dark


Very cool use of color, I really like that (though i do wonder how well it'd print). I have to agree that the girl doesn't look very scared though. Probably her stance is just too defiant - i do also see why people think the shading looks like a smirk. If the stance was reworked i'd give it my vote.

juliaL719


quality posts: 0 Private Messages juliaL719
Re: Fear of the Dark


This is a vast improvement over Shiny Bunny Mark #919263941023. Good use of negative space.

Two things.

1. She is looking basically the opposite of afraid. Your message is NOT coming across.

2. The black background is not doing this any favors. I predict a washed-out print. Olive green, please?

mrscat206


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mrscat206
Re: Fear of the Dark


If this weren't spot on one of my worst fears, I would totally buy this shirt. I guess I heard this story one too many times as a kid and am seriously freaked out by wolves . Scary stuff there.

Normscoffee


quality posts: 23 Private Messages Normscoffee
Re: Fear of the Dark


While I don't like the color choices and think the stance does not portray fear this is one of the few shirts of yours that I think is decent. I agree with the posters encouraging you to do more like this and less cute bunnies/cats/etc.

drgribb


quality posts: 4 Private Messages drgribb
Re: Fear of the Dark


needs more iron maiden

llarson7


quality posts: 0 Private Messages llarson7
Re: Fear of the Dark


I can't truthfully say I'd want one because it's way too scary. Nice job conveying the mood.

No quality posts, but plenty of quality purchases.

sTyLeS


quality posts: 9 Private Messages sTyLeS
drgribb wrote:needs more iron maiden


I was gonna say cowbell. But sure, iron maiden.

ccazabon


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ccazabon
paintmymusic wrote:I wonder what comments would be left on this if the artist identity wasn't revealed. I like this design and the subtle message behind it.


This is actually something I've thought of a few times. Although it would be hard to enforce (keep people from posting the artist in comments, or using external sources to get that info) and many of the artists' styles stand out pretty well, but it might curb some biases (both in the negative and positive direction)

I'm not saying everyone, or even most, vote based on how much they like or dislike the artist, but I'm sure there are a decent number of cases where an artist's reputation can swing a vote one way or the other.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
Re: Fear of the Dark


If you have time Ramyb, can we get a close up of the background? The dark grey trees don't seem to match the dark grey shadows on here dress. This would mean that there are seven colors (8 including the t-shirt color). Also, it seems like there is transparency on those trees, which doubles every color it overlaps.

It may just be a fine halftone or a dissolve to give it that look. That is why I request a close up, detail shot of the background if possible.


kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
ccazabon wrote:This is actually something I've thought of a few times. Although it would be hard to enforce (keep people from posting the artist in comments, or using external sources to get that info) and many of the artists' styles stand out pretty well, but it might curb some biases (both in the negative and positive direction)

I'm not saying everyone, or even most, vote based on how much they like or dislike the artist, but I'm sure there are a decent number of cases where an artist's reputation can swing a vote one way or the other.


They did an anonymous derby once. The names were available on shirtderbystats, but it was tried.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

KaylaJ


quality posts: 22 Private Messages KaylaJ
ccazabon wrote:This is actually something I've thought of a few times. Although it would be hard to enforce (keep people from posting the artist in comments, or using external sources to get that info) and many of the artists' styles stand out pretty well, but it might curb some biases (both in the negative and positive direction)

I'm not saying everyone, or even most, vote based on how much they like or dislike the artist, but I'm sure there are a decent number of cases where an artist's reputation can swing a vote one way or the other.



Woot had a quiet derby once and it was quite easy to figure out who's was who. Needless to say, it didn't quite work.

And so I stay on topic, I'll have to rerun the opinion. To me at first glance the lower body + red (which some people see as the color of courage) just makes her look confident almost like facing the wind is facing adversity. Maybe giving her knocked knees or something would show it more as the face is a bit hard to convey with it being so small.

Jullianagrey


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Jullianagrey
Re: Fear of the Dark


Surprised this was yours Ramy. Pleasantly surprised! I'm going to agree with a few of the other comments that applaud you for this alternative direction. This has a bit of Tim Burton and Drakxxx in it that I'm really liking quite a bit. I follow the derbies consistently, and enjoy a lot of the artwork that is submitted, but I haven't found much I'd want to buy as a shirt. This is one I think I could go for though. Nice work and +1.

JRWorkshop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JRWorkshop

Even a disliker of your average entries like me has to recognize this is cool. Kinda darky and well drawn.


capitalsown


quality posts: 1 Private Messages capitalsown
KaylaJ wrote:Woot had a quiet derby once and it was quite easy to figure out who's was who. Needless to say, it didn't quite work.

And so I stay on topic, I'll have to rerun the opinion. To me at first glance the lower body + red (which some people see as the color of courage) just makes her look confident almost like facing the wind is facing adversity. Maybe giving her knocked knees or something would show it more as the face is a bit hard to convey with it being so small.


You know what? They really should make all derbies anonymous and hide all vote counts and make it illegal to promote your design through other sites. If you do and you get caught, you get rejected. Now, I don't know how they'd solve the ShirtDerbyStats problem, but if there is a way, I really think they should do this from now on.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
capitalsown wrote:You know what? They really should make all derbies anonymous and hide all vote counts and make it illegal to promote your design through other sites. If you do and you get caught, you get rejected. Now, I don't know how they'd solve the ShirtDerbyStats problem, but if there is a way, I really think they should do this from now on.


The ban on advertising shirts in other places is really absurd. Woot has kind of a work-around in that you must have at least one woot purchase to vote. The current system is certainly flawed big time, but your suggestions won't really help.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

jerroul


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jerroul
Re: Fear of the Dark


I actually took her stance, with her arms in protective positions, as closer to shivering than to confidence. I must admit that I didn't add her legs into the mix until I started reading the comments from the usual critics (not meant in a negative sense). I do see where they are coming from now, but to me, at least, the overall effect is still closer to fear. Add in the shadowy wolf (well done, by the way) and the spots of red eyes/glows and it is clearly on topic.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Re: Fear of the Dark


Besides the fact that, as everyone has noted, posing like you just won a battle in Anime-Fighter Turbo is more confident than fearful, and therefore this is just one more example of totally offtheme work from you, the thing that concerns me more is this:

Does no one else look at this and see massive amounts of seki linework in the wolf especially?

northlights911


quality posts: 0 Private Messages northlights911

Why the hell is everyone going crazy about an expression she may or may not have. Its a cool design that is actually wearable, and that matters a lot more to me than some thinly drawn rules that usually aren't followed anyways.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
AdderXYU wrote:Does no one else look at this and see massive amounts of seki linework in the wolf especially?


Exactly my thoughts when I saw the thumbnail which was, "Oh, I see seki is submitting again."

This falls in line with those asking if the comments would be the same if we didn't have the artist's name. The answer is yes. ramy's designs are obvious from the thumbnail. And what is obvious in this design is that it lacks all of the common aesthetics ramy puts into his proportional humanoids, but is strikingly close to seki's typical styling.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
chumpmagic wrote:If you have time Ramyb, can we get a close up of the background? The dark grey trees don't seem to match the dark grey shadows on here dress. This would mean that there are seven colors (8 including the t-shirt color). Also, it seems like there is transparency on those trees, which doubles every color it overlaps.

It may just be a fine halftone or a dissolve to give it that look. That is why I request a close up, detail shot of the background if possible.


Am I the only on that sees more than 6 colors? On close inspection, it seems the grey in the left corner, is lighter than the grey on her cloths too. That makes 8... maybe I am crazy.

hi-res image, please?


tavelkyosoba


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tavelkyosoba
paintmymusic wrote:I wonder what comments would be left on this if the artist identity wasn't revealed. I like this design and the subtle message behind it.


Agreed. If you don't like a shirt don't vote for it. There is no reason to heckle an artist.

This is the only shirt in the fog right now that I would buy.

parrotworks


quality posts: 16 Private Messages parrotworks
Re: Fear of the Dark


The design is well done but I have to agree she looks a bit too confident to sell any phobia.

Giggers


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Giggers
Re: Fear of the Dark


My favorite part is where the hecklers continue their poo flinging even after Ramyb came up with a rather unique and pleasing entry. You fellows really know how to heap on the positive reinforcement.

Critique the item at hand and try to leave former bias out of the equation. Half the comments I'm reading I wouldn't dream of seeing on the same entry with a different author.

KaylaJ


quality posts: 22 Private Messages KaylaJ
capitalsown wrote:You know what? They really should make all derbies anonymous and hide all vote counts and make it illegal to promote your design through other sites. If you do and you get caught, you get rejected. Now, I don't know how they'd solve the ShirtDerbyStats problem, but if there is a way, I really think they should do this from now on.


As someone else noted, promoting would be entirely difficult to stop and probably not really smart. Another quiet derby would be interesting to see, but it would have to be on a subject where artists could really move away from their norms.

flamespear


quality posts: 4 Private Messages flamespear
Re: Fear of the Dark



Ogres Mangling Freaky Ghouls why don't people get it...you're supposed to be afraid of HER...it's a cute girl in the dark with blood dripping near her. WTH is she grinning?!?!? Thats the whole point if i seen a girl grinning in the dark under those circumstances i'd be terrified. People are so dense. It's not a killer bunny and a skull we should be happy.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Giggers wrote:My favorite part is where the hecklers continue their poo flinging even after Ramyb came up with a rather unique and pleasing entry. You fellows really know how to heap on the positive reinforcement.

Critique the item at hand and try to leave former bias out of the equation. Half the comments I'm reading I wouldn't dream of seeing on the same entry with a different author.


Besides the fact that it's not very pleasing (it's still technically anime styling, just a slightly different one than he usually does), there's nothing unique about it. I see a lot of Devil in the Details (tgentry), tanniniver's madness design, and furthermore, as I said before, the wolf thing is incredibly reminiscent of sekiyoku's non-steampunk steampunk entry, and that should worry woot, and anyone who buys or submits at woot, because it implies a thief could still be in our midst. You cannot leave the past out of it.

All this is meaningless, however, because it's not on theme.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
flamespear wrote:Ogres Mangling Freaky Ghouls why don't people get it...you're supposed to be afraid of HER...it's a cute girl in the dark with blood dripping near her. WTH is she grinning?!?!? Thats the whole point if i seen a girl grinning in the dark under those circumstances i'd be terrified. People are so dense. It's not a killer bunny and a skull we should be happy.


It's been done. A lot. And about 10000000000000000x times better. Not to mention the best iteration is constantly reprinted at Threadless.

kimvy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kimvy
mrwednesday wrote:Exactly my thoughts when I saw the thumbnail which was, "Oh, I see seki is submitting again."

This falls in line with those asking if the comments would be the same if we didn't have the artist's name. The answer is yes. ramy's designs are obvious from the thumbnail. And what is obvious in this design is that it lacks all of the common aesthetics ramy puts into his proportional humanoids, but is strikingly close to seki's typical styling.


No, it wouldn't. It's always you three heckling and badgering. Seriously, there's no pleasing you three.

First it's the same thing. Then when he actually does something a little different y'all tighten the tinfoil and say it's someone else's work.

Seriously, gents, do you not have ANYTHING else to do?

mikenytola


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mikenytola
kimvy wrote:No, it wouldn't. It's always you three heckling and badgering. Seriously, there's no pleasing you three.

First it's the same thing. Then when he actually does something a little different y'all tighten the tinfoil and say it's someone else's work.

Seriously, gents, do you not have ANYTHING else to do?

I can agree that the girl does't look like she's afraid but more confident with a smirk, but that's about it. Everything else is nitpicking and harassing.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
kimvy wrote:No, it wouldn't. It's always you three heckling and badgering. Seriously, there's no pleasing you three.


Just to clarify, this reads as scared. So does this one. Just because this design deviates from bunnies doesn't mean it's a good design or that it fits the theme.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

trixydan


quality posts: 8 Private Messages trixydan
Re: Fear of the Dark


This is great, however, I see a fable...not a phobia. I think this is off topic.

tavelkyosoba


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tavelkyosoba
kylemittskus wrote:Just to clarify, this reads as scared. So does this one. Just because this design deviates from bunnies doesn't mean it's a good design or that it fits the theme.


Both of those shirts use the exact same pose. I don't see you commenting on those threads saying they ripped each other off. If the artist were to use those poses on red riding hood it would look completely wrong. "I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf." Obviously subtlety is wasted on you.

fabgab


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fabgab
Re: Fear of the Dark


Subtlety is not wasted on me! I stab this. It is actually art. And frankly, all the nitpicking is really annoying after the stuff that's been winning lately. Where were the nitpickers then?

sakleehop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sakleehop
Re: Fear of the Dark


I know the styles are different but I agree with AdderXYU - this shirt reminds me of this one a little too closely...

Re: The Devil is in the Details


Same concept of a little fairytale girl; same use of muted colors with limited use of a bright, striking red, same "evil tree" that may be more than just a tree. It's just too similar for me, but perhaps the styling difference will be enough of a justification for Woot to keep it.

SirSquinty


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SirSquinty
AdderXYU wrote:Besides the fact that it's not very pleasing (it's still technically anime styling, just a slightly different one than he usually does), there's nothing unique about it. I see a lot of Devil in the Details (tgentry), tanniniver's madness design, and furthermore, as I said before, the wolf thing is incredibly reminiscent of sekiyoku's non-steampunk steampunk entry, and that should worry woot, and anyone who buys or submits at woot, because it implies a thief could still be in our midst. You cannot leave the past out of it.

All this is meaningless, however, because it's not on theme.



You know...there is such a thing as subjectivity. You should learn this word. Just because you don't think it's on topic, doesn't mean it isn't. Perhaps you aren't capable enough to read into the subtleties of the entry...?

Maeniel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Maeniel
Re: Fear of the Dark


I have found a new favorite shirt. If this don't get printed, let me know where it is printed and I will take a few. stab the shirt. Can even wear it on Halloween. I don't post but this is very worthy. stab the shirt.

nabesmer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nabesmer
ramyb wrote:She's holding her hood over her face to keep herself from looking- when you are afraid of the dark, it is a common thing to try to look away, but feel that it is closing in on you. I'm not sure why you see a smug expression, but to me she is frowning.


I'm sorry but a female walking alone in the dark, even trying to keep her cool, doesn't have body language like this. It's a beautiful illustration for a strong female perhaps but this doesn't work as a phobia illustration.

A woman would never shield her peripheral vision and would be hard pressed not to at least occasionally look over her shoulder. Her head would be up and her expression would be clearly alert. Her shoulders would come forward a little and her arms would be closer/higher over her chest. Her legs would be close together and there should be movement to her figure since she would not slow even for a moment if she had a sense of impending danger.

capitalsown


quality posts: 1 Private Messages capitalsown
KaylaJ wrote:As someone else noted, promoting would be entirely difficult to stop and probably not really smart. Another quiet derby would be interesting to see, but it would have to be on a subject where artists could really move away from their norms.


A quiet derby would just be SPOOKTACULAR! if they couldn't find a way to stop people from advertising... It really wouldn't be difficult to stop, either. Just do what they do now for derby entries similar to other shirts. If someone finds an instance of promotion, tattle on it. Right now, people are voting for a name. Ramy just tweets to his followers "vote for my shirt". That's a ton right there. And to that person that said buying a shirt is a workaround, it really isn't, but OK.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy
DPMStudent2013 wrote:Keep it up ramy, if your work wasn't solid, it wouldn't sell


Yeah, just like Justin Bieber!

What I like: It's not bunnies.

What I dislike: That many people were offering legitimate criticism, not just "poo flinging," that the girl's body language at least didn't suggest fear, and this is still unacceptable. I'm okay with him not designing her to be running in abject terror, but nothing about Red's stance suggests fear. I think the appearance of a smirk is a misplaced shadow. All of this could be easily fixed and resubbed. But will it happen? I doubt it, because how dare we question the sheer glory that is ramy.

kitten07


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kitten07

I would buy this in a heartbeat. I stab stab stab this

DoublEE


quality posts: 8 Private Messages DoublEE
capitalsown wrote:A quiet derby would just be SPOOKTACULAR! if they couldn't find a way to stop people from advertising... It really wouldn't be difficult to stop, either. Just do what they do now for derby entries similar to other shirts. If someone finds an instance of promotion, tattle on it. Right now, people are voting for a name. Ramy just tweets to his followers "vote for my shirt". That's a ton right there. And to that person that said buying a shirt is a workaround, it really isn't, but OK.


1. Show us the proof.
2. Don't Ramy's followers have the same right to vote for a shirt here as you and I? Why should they be excluded.
3. Every other artist has the same ability to tweet or post.
4. Show me how you're going to regulate what you are proposing.

I swear all this Ramy hate and paranoia is rotting some of your brains. Whether you like the guy or not let's be objective.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
tavelkyosoba wrote:Both of those shirts use the exact same pose. I don't see you commenting on those threads saying they ripped each other off. If the artist were to use those poses on red riding hood it would look completely wrong. "I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf." Obviously subtlety is wasted on you.


Because they didn't rip each other off! Are you serious? The reason I posted those shirts is to show what fear looks like. Obviously, obvious things are wasted on you.

I understand subtlety. I also understand what confidence looks like. And the way this girl is standing shows confidence. It's not fear, subtle or otherwise. And if you think it is fear, please show or explain to me how instead of just attacking a legitimate criticism myself and many others have made.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

ravenhaired


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ravenhaired
Normscoffee wrote:While I don't like the color choices and think the stance does not portray fear this is one of the few shirts of yours that I think is decent. I agree with the posters encouraging you to do more like this and less cute bunnies/cats/etc.


Seconded.

Jestik


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Jestik
Re: Fear of the Dark



"similar" shirts exist:



ShantyShawn's Red Riding Hood.


kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
Jestik wrote:"similar" shirts exist: ShantyShawn's Red Riding Hood.


The style is completely different, but the inherent image is EXACTLY the same, wolf and all. IMO, too close to pass.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Reibear


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Reibear
Re: Fear of the Dark


I wouldn't have known this was a ramyb shirt if I hadn't read the comments. It is much better than what I have come to expect from this artist, and it does look pretty cool on my screen, though I'm not sure how I feel about the heavy contrast of the girl and reds and the rest of the picture. And yeah, she looks extremely confident and calm/cool, but that's okay because a phobia is still depicted, it just doesn't affect the girl in the picture.

sasham62


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sasham62
kylemittskus wrote:a) it doesn't look like she's holding her hood. The angles are awkward for that. It looks like she's holding her basket with her arm up like people so often do.
b) frowning is not fear.
c) her stance is still a very confident one. There's no movement, i.e.: she's not running, or even moving quickly. Instead, she is stationary, standing her ground with a very strong posture = the opposite of fear.


I think it actually does look like she's holding her hood, but only to keep it from blowing away.

The real problem with this shirt, for a phobia theme, is her stance: it's a superhero stance. --- Hey! She's Buffy!

Earlysong


quality posts: 21 Private Messages Earlysong
Re: Fear of the Dark


This is a neat-looking design.

I showed it to one of my friends and asked him to describe the girl without giving him any context and he said, "She looks like she's about to kick some a**." I share this opinion. She does not look scared unless you try very hard to see her that way, which should not be necessary.

That being said, I think you could argue that she is facing her fears by being confident about it.

The miniskirt bothers me. Red Riding Hood was not a Japanese schoolgirl.

I love this website! ^^

eco2geek


quality posts: 51 Private Messages eco2geek
The call for entries says:

This week, show us a depiction of your favorite phobia or phobias, whether "real" or imaginary.


It doesn't say that the person depicted in the artwork, if any, has to be displaying fear in any way, shape, or form. It's a depiction of the artist's favorite phobia, not the phobia of the person depicted.

Not that the point I just made matters - much of the so-called criticism here is really concern trolling at its finest.

It's pretty clear that what it really comes down to is that the poop flingers don't want to see this artist competing in a woot derby ever again.

I don't know how well the wolf will show up on a black shirt, but it's a neat design. GMV.

We have met the enemy and he is us. -- Pogo

skaake


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skaake
Re: Fear of the Dark

Who said every entry about phobias this derby had to be negative? Just because you have a phobia doesn't mean you can't try to overcome it. She's doing her best to face her fears and phobias under the worst circumstances. I think this is a very inspiring t-shirt.

Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best.
~Henry Van Dyke

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
Re: Fear of the Dark


Oh look! Its the RamyB Fun Club!
By the way, I like the design. I would change a number of things. The many red dots are annoying and distracting from the main design. It might have been a better choice to have her cowering a bit and looking over her shoulder and maybe catching her in mid run instead of just standing there looking and waiting to pull out her She-ra sword and slice and dice like a japanese school girl.
But apart from that I like the color pallete choice and the choice of riding hood for the fear of the dark. Keep stretching yourself RamyB. I have seen some your stuff on threadless.com and it shines brighter than the stuff you enter here.

Assassin15


quality posts: 161 Private Messages Assassin15
eco2geek wrote:The call for entries says:



It doesn't say that the person depicted in the artwork, if any, has to be displaying fear in any way, shape, or form. It's a depiction of the artist's favorite phobia, not the phobia of the person depicted.

Not that the point I just made matters - much of the so-called criticism here is really concern trolling at its finest.

It's pretty clear that what it really comes down to is that the poop flingers don't want to see this artist competing in a woot derby ever again.

I don't know how well the wolf will show up on a black shirt, but it's a neat design. GMV.


Concur.

PULL UP YOUR SKIRT, WE'RE ON A MISSION/
WE NEED A HERO, NOT A POLITICIAN - "Panhammer" by Phinehas

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
skaake wrote:Who said every entry about phobias this derby had to be negative? Just because you have a phobia doesn't mean you can't try to overcome it. She's doing her best to face her fears and phobias under the worst circumstances. I think this is a very inspiring t-shirt.


If she's facing her fears, why is she hiding behind her hood? (This portrayal of her fear was described by the designer, by the way at the beginning.)

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

mizzangelica


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mizzangelica
Re: Fear of the Dark


Very cool design, man, great job.

Perhaps, if people don't like your design, or don't like your art style, they should simply not vote for you. I can't imagine being abused every time you submit a shirt feels very good, and I commend you for continuing to submit your ideas anyway.

I'm a relatively new wooter, but I enjoy your woots so far!

Lamuril


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lamuril
Re: Fear of the Dark


She does look smug/confident, but I think it's more because of her stance. Either way, I like the art and it applies more to the theme than a lot of the other shirts in the derby: panda painting white around it, spiders coming out of a fortune cookie, and a spider on top of Miss Crumpet's stool. It's just a bunch of ramy haters hatin on ramy. Keep hatin'. It doesn't stop her/him from submitting designs that follow the theme any more or less than other designs. TRY to at least be as critical with other shirts. The only criticism I ever see here anymore in the derby is for ramy's designs and actions.

capitalsown


quality posts: 1 Private Messages capitalsown
eco2geek wrote:The call for entries says:



It doesn't say that the person depicted in the artwork, if any, has to be displaying fear in any way, shape, or form. It's a depiction of the artist's favorite phobia, not the phobia of the person depicted.

Not that the point I just made matters - much of the so-called criticism here is really concern trolling at its finest.

It's pretty clear that what it really comes down to is that the poop flingers don't want to see this artist competing in a woot derby ever again.

I don't know how well the wolf will show up on a black shirt, but it's a neat design. GMV.


Yeah, but how can you depict phobia without the subject being in any sort of fear? I mean drawing the view looking down from the top of a skyscraper does not represent astrophobia, it represents the view looking down off the top of a skyscraper. This does not depict any fear of night, wolves, or shadow canids. Yeah, it features them, but if nobody is afraid, it's not a phobia, because phobia requires fear.

capitalsown


quality posts: 1 Private Messages capitalsown
DoublEE wrote:1. Show us the proof.
2. Don't Ramy's followers have the same right to vote for a shirt here as you and I? Why should they be excluded.
3. Every other artist has the same ability to tweet or post.
4. Show me how you're going to regulate what you are proposing.

I swear all this Ramy hate and paranoia is rotting some of your brains. Whether you like the guy or not let's be objective.


I really don't understand why you are getting upset. Sure, they have a right, however I don't understand why you think people should have a right to use loyalist fans to gain an unfair advantage over everyone else. You know how many people lose the derbies because established members just advertise their way into the fog? And sure, every other artist can, but not every other artist has a giant, loyal fanclub. I already showed you how to regulate it. Please reread.

I swear, all this paranoia from ramy fan-boys is rotting some of your brains, considering what I said had nothing to do with ramy in the first place and it was only about providing equal ground to work by lesser known contestants who are just as talented. You just assumed it was about me expressing some sort of seething hatred towards ramy.

cantstopthesignal


quality posts: 1 Private Messages cantstopthesignal
Jestik wrote:"similar" shirts exist:



ShantyShawn's Red Riding Hood.




Wow, this is the EXACT same design! A different style and execution, but red riding hood in a forest with the wolf ready to pounce on her.

THE WOLF IS EVEN ON THE SAME SPOT, AND ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE SHIRT.




pretywtch


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pretywtch
Re: Fear of the Dark


I think it's amazing, and I would definitely be interested in buying one if this gets printed.

Good luck!

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
Lamuril wrote:She does look smug/confident, but I think it's more because of her stance. Either way, I like the art and it applies more to the theme than a lot of the other shirts in the derby: panda painting white around it, spiders coming out of a fortune cookie, and a spider on top of Miss Crumpet's stool. It's just a bunch of ramy haters hatin on ramy. Keep hatin'. It doesn't stop her/him from submitting designs that follow the theme any more or less than other designs. TRY to at least be as critical with other shirts. The only criticism I ever see here anymore in the derby is for ramy's designs and actions.


First of all, you can think this is on theme all you want. I'm not sure I entirely disagree if she's facing her fears (but why grab her hood, then?). However, the others shirts you mentioned are perfectly on theme. Two represent arachniphobia and the panda one is a joke that he is afraid of colors because he's a panda -- he's black and white. It's a difficult concept. I don't like any of the three shirts you posted, but they represent a fear far more than this one because they don't have a confused girl whose not sure if she's afraid or confident.

Second, there are criticisms all over this site, so the very fact that you are making blanket, hyperbolic statements that are obviously untrue if you read for 5 seconds really negates any further or previous argument you make.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
capitalsown wrote:I really don't understand why you are getting upset.


PM'd you.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Misskari


quality posts: 8 Private Messages Misskari
Re: Fear of the Dark


You've obviously got some good technical skill, Ramy, but I think where you always fall flat is expressing emotions. That girl is downright cocky. Which is fine if this was the "gearing up for a beat-down" derby. It's just really awkward as a phobia shirt.

alis0ntalb0t


quality posts: 0 Private Messages alis0ntalb0t
Re: Fear of the Dark


As a female, I know that sometimes you have to look tough even when you're scared. & she's a modern Red rocking a short skirt. & the close us clearly shows she's frowning, not smirking. GMV

icymallard


quality posts: 4 Private Messages icymallard
Re: Fear of the Dark


guys... i figured it out.

That's Raven from the Teen Titans.

beaterbar


quality posts: 0 Private Messages beaterbar
Re: Fear of the Dark


I think this is plenty on theme compared to many of the other things. Interesting that regardless of what ramyb does he can get the same exact complaints. It really is all about some weird social justice with you people and not art, isn't it?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
beaterbar wrote:I think this is plenty on theme compared to many of the other things. Interesting that regardless of what ramyb does he can get the same exact complaints. It really is all about some weird social justice with you people and not art, isn't it?


Two things. First, saying one thing is more X than the other doesn't mean either is actually X. Secondly, yes. It's some weird social justice. It's called, not giving money to people who break rules and cheat. Weird, huh?

And before you (or anyone else) start saying it's only about Ramy, see this thread towards the end. And before you (or any one else) says it's all about jealousy, there are plenty of successful artists I support. Unless my jealousy is subjective and only tends towards designers who can't follow rules or topics well. I suppose that's a possibility.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 617 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

kylemittskus wrote:Two things. First, saying one thing is more X than the other doesn't mean either is actually X. Secondly, yes. It's some weird social justice. It's called, not giving money to people who break rules and cheat. Weird, huh?

And before you (or anyone else) start saying it's only about Ramy, see this thread towards the end. And before you (or any one else) says it's all about jealousy, there are plenty of successful artists I support. Unless my jealousy is subjective and only tends towards designers who can't follow rules or topics well. I suppose that's a possibility.

You know, you really don't have to answer EVERY post. You're one of those that has to have the last word, aren't you?



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Paradox55


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Paradox55
ThunderThighs wrote:You know, you really don't have to answer EVERY post. You're one of those that has to have the last word, aren't you?


I'm really disappointed with this post. Guess I expect Woot staff to stay on the neutral side. Kyle was only responding to a post that once again defends the undefendable.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
ThunderThighs wrote:You know, you really don't have to answer EVERY post. You're one of those that has to have the last word, aren't you?


Not at all. I'm just at home, watching football. Having my computer open next to me makes it easy. You're one of those that has to use hyperbole when asking questions, aren't you?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 617 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

kylemittskus wrote:Not at all. I'm just at home, watching football. Having my computer open next to me makes it easy. You're one of those that has to use hyperbole when asking questions, aren't you?

*snerk*



FORUM MODERATOR
To contact Customer Service, use the SUPPORT form at the top of every woot page
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CANCEL?? How to cancel your order in the first 15 minutes!! - except orders with Woot-Off or expedited items

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
alis0ntalb0t wrote:As a female, I know that sometimes you have to look tough even when you're scared. & she's a modern Red rocking a short skirt. & the close us clearly shows she's frowning, not smirking. GMV


This is ludicrous. Everyone puts on a strong face when they don't want to convey fear. That's not exclusive to being a woman.

THIS IS JUST AN IMAGE. All we know is what we're shown. Maybe she's really afraid of trees but loves wolves! But it doesn't matter what is going on in her mind, because her mind doesn't exist. The image shows a red riding hood confidently in the woods despite the wolf at the side. She's not shown as afraid of anything, or even acknowledging the wolf is there. There could be a wolf behind a tree any time we walk anywhere. We are probably not scared of it if we cannot see it.

Someone mentioned subjectivity and objectivity earlier. The issue is, the fact is in the image, and the image shows one thing. Any extrapolation to presume there is phobia expressed here is all opinion. That's not what the image shows. The image shows someone comfortable in the dark. Some people are afraid of clowns, but if you draw a happy circus scene with unconcerned characters watching, it is not about the fear of clowns. This is the same. Just because there are elements one COULD be scared of doesn't mean there is fear expressed. Anything can be a phobia. The design itself must have some expression of FEAR to be on theme.

tedschopf


quality posts: 3 Private Messages tedschopf
northlights911 wrote:Why the hell is everyone going crazy about an expression she may or may not have. Its a cool design that is actually wearable, and that matters a lot more to me than some thinly drawn rules that usually aren't followed anyways.


so true, but everyone just loves arguing over posts. Like it actually means something to the world, even though most people are going to just click vote. The rejectionator won't nab this, because too many people like it.

tedschopf


quality posts: 3 Private Messages tedschopf
tedschopf wrote:so true, but everyone just loves arguing over posts. Like it actually means something to the world, even though most people are going to just click vote. The rejectionator won't nab this, because too many people like it.


also, RamyB always gets some crap from the peanut gallery for his sweet designs

HahaAwsm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages HahaAwsm
Re: Fear of the Dark


I'm sure this has already been beaten to death but what really confuses me about this shirt is most definitely the way she's standing. Her stance being almost straight up makes it look like she's overcoming her fears rather than being afraid. Now, if she was hunched over, clutching her basket for dear life, then you would have yourself a real winner!

askaboutme


quality posts: 0 Private Messages askaboutme

This is sick!

ChefRAZ


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ChefRAZ
Earlysong wrote:This is a neat-looking design.

I showed it to one of my friends and asked him to describe the girl without giving him any context and he said, "She looks like she's about to kick some a**." I share this opinion. She does not look scared unless you try very hard to see her that way, which should not be necessary.

That being said, I think you could argue that she is facing her fears by being confident about it.
and I'm checking the paws to see if it's Eddies hands again.
The miniskirt bothers me. Red Riding Hood was not a Japanese schoolgirl.


he has to appeal to his fanbase or he loses votes he's built up for years. I seriously don't get where phobia is in this shirt? R R H and the wolf. and in the story she was never affraid? no? is it the wolf with the phobia?

julejules


quality posts: 0 Private Messages julejules
ramyb wrote:When you are afraid of the dark, the shadows start to take on shapes. The idea was that she is in no danger, but feels that she is being followed in the shadows. She is trying to remain calm but is clutching her basket tightly. I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf. Hopefully this comes through in the design


I get it. It appears she was walking in the woods, heard a noise and froze to listen. She's standing there scared to look up for fear she might see what she's imagining is truly there. That's what I would do if I was alone in the woods and heard a strange sound. I would want to be as still as possible and listen carefully. I wouldn't take off running or curl up in a ball.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
Re: Fear of the Dark


When all is said and done, I like this, in a general sort of way. I think it's light years better than those cheebee critters, ramyb, and you should pursue this avenue more often.
That said, I don't think it's terribly original (even without another shirt to pursuade me).
And, technically, I think it would benefit from a color swap between the blacks and grays - put the thing on asphalt - to make it more visible. I like the colors on the black, but I don't think they'll print well.
I could be wront.

dragonvt


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dragonvt

Don't listen to all the hate. This is a beautifully illustrated shirt, and I definitely get the fear element you were going for. Great job, RAMYB, I hope I get the chance to buy it.

As an aside, folks, bravery doesn't mean feeling no fear, it means not letting that fear control you.

kingwoot2008


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kingwoot2008
Re: Fear of the Dark


Great job!

Karrde86


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Karrde86
Re: Fear of the Dark


For those that think it should or should not be in the derby based on its portrayal of the verb "fear", what's your thoughts on Stardamsel's "Face Your Fears"?
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=46422

melquam


quality posts: 1 Private Messages melquam

It seems lazy to me to come up with a weak explanation of an old design to fit the theme as opposed to coming up with a new design.

What gets people so bent out of shape is the fact that it's so blatantly not designed for this theme, and yet the artist insists on justifying their entry with a far-reaching interpretation of how it may possibly be relevant.

I think people would respect this person's entries more if they just said, "Yeah... I know this entry is quite a stretch, but people like my art work, and if Woot! isn't going to reject it, then I'm going to submit it. Deal with it."

Honesty is the best policy. Not everyone will like what is said, but at least no one ends up being treated like a fool.

thinkingbox


quality posts: 0 Private Messages thinkingbox
Re: Fear of the Dark


Of course she looks confident, she has an Uzi in that picnic basket.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
thinkingbox wrote:Of course she looks confident, she has an Uzi in that picnic basket.


Plus everyone knows wearing a schoolgirl outfit gives you instant mystical powers and kickbuttism. (if I were the wolf I'd just walk away...quietly) Though, she is relatively small in the chest, so she may suffer some minuses for that in her stats. The bigger the chest, the more butt you can kick, of course. ;P

:D Anime Physics FTW!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Karrde86 wrote:For those that think it should or should not be in the derby based on its portrayal of the verb "fear", what's your thoughts on Stardamsel's "Face Your Fears"?
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=46422


The major difference there is that there is at least a confrontation of the fear. There is no confrontation here either. The riding hood character looks neither defiant nor fearful. Neither of them are directly "phobia" related (and that's the theme, not "fear." Fear needs to be present to justify the phobia, but the phobia needs to be present to be on theme), but you can make a far more lucid and intelligent argument for Stardamsel's based on the image itself. There is zero context clue in this design that the riding hood character is even aware of the lupine-representation-of-fear, let alone facing a fear or being fearful of it.

Combine this with the similar shirts listed, and the being undeniably similar in theme and execution to a Sekiyoku piece, also off theme and not rejected in its derby, and this should be gone yesterday.

be10der2me


quality posts: 0 Private Messages be10der2me
Re: Fear of the Dark


Good job as usual! I really love the wolf!

dreamwootseeker


quality posts: 2 Private Messages dreamwootseeker

I'm genuinely happy to see this Ramyb entry! While the criticism that the girl looks confident is true, the fact that she has a noticeable expression is in itself a victory! Not to mention this is well outside Ramy's comfort zone and it looks like, for a change, some effort went into it. I might just vote for this one, just to shake things up ;-)

blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
tedschopf wrote: The rejectionator won't nab this, because too many people like it.


So far this derby two shirts have been rejected out of the fog. But I will say that since this one wasn't rejected at the same time it is unlikely that it will be.

solusumbra


quality posts: 1 Private Messages solusumbra

i think i would like this more if hood was portrayed by just her hood. it would be interesting to imply her form underneath a red splash, plus it would make her look a little more fearful (at least in my head).

add to that i really like abstracting characters from fairy tales rather than actually portraying them.

emccall3


quality posts: 0 Private Messages emccall3
Re: Fear of the Dark



Okay... first I'm going to say that there seems to be quite a bit of hate aimed at RamyB in general (understatement). But when it really comes down to it, if you don't like the artist's works, don't vote for their shirt. Perhaps that is too simple minded for those with their engorged egos achieved like every other grade-schooler: by putting other people down... not my problem.

While I'm not a fan of the cutsie stuff, this shirt is sweet and has my vote.

snarkygal


quality posts: 5 Private Messages snarkygal
kingwoot2008 wrote:Great job!


I think it is inappropriate for Woot staff to comment on Derby entries. We all know that he seems to be above the rules, but now we have staff saying "Great job"?

Totally inappropriate in my opinion.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
snarkygal wrote:I think it is inappropriate for Woot staff to comment on Derby entries. We all know that he seems to be above the rules, but now we have staff saying "Great job"?

Totally inappropriate in my opinion.


you do realize that not everyone at woot has a hand in what shirts get printed right? because they work for their company means they cant appreiciate the designs? just because they are commenting doesnt mean there is some "big" conspiracy out to get you. they are just people, they can comment on what they want.

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
dragonvt wrote:

As an aside, folks, bravery doesn't mean feeling no fear, it means not letting that fear control you.


This derby is about phobias, which is pretty much the opposite of what you just said.

mymillsap


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mymillsap

Great shirt Ramy

ChaoticMidget


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ChaoticMidget
ramyb wrote:saved


Am I the only person who saw this and actually remembered that ramyb submitted that steampunk shirt with riding hood against the steam wolf? I skimmed through the top 2/3 of the comments (a lot by now) and somehow now one remembered it.

ChaoticMidget


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ChaoticMidget
ChaoticMidget wrote:Am I the only person who saw this and actually remembered that ramyb submitted that steampunk shirt with riding hood against the steam wolf? I skimmed through the top 2/3 of the comments (a lot by now) and somehow now one remembered it.


http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=30946

Alright, I retract from this statement. The above is what I was thinking of. There is something uncomfortably familiar about ramyb's design of riding hood though and I know I've seen it somewhere before.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
megsck wrote:you do realize that not everyone at woot has a hand in what shirts get printed right? because they work for their company means they cant appreiciate the designs? just because they are commenting doesnt mean there is some "big" conspiracy out to get you. they are just people, they can comment on what they want.


The problem is that you have no idea what the staff member in question has a hand in. It may not mean there is a big conspiracy but it also may mean that there is. Either is just as likely with the information you have. Regardless, it implies tacit support of this design by the staff or woot itself that is not being given to other shirts.

The bottom line still stands, staff should not be commenting on shirts with staff accounts unless there is official business being handled. Personal opinions should be just that and handled with a personal account or not at all.

jxchen


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jxchen
ChaoticMidget wrote:http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=30946

Alright, I retract from this statement. The above is what I was thinking of. There is something uncomfortably familiar about ramyb's design of riding hood though and I know I've seen it somewhere before.


I see little to no similarities between the two images other than a portrayal of Red Riding Hood and a wolf.

sefjwm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sefjwm
jxchen wrote:I see little to no similarities between the two images other than a portrayal of Red Riding Hood and a wolf.


Look at the wolf's face. It looks pretty identical. Oh and the reason everyone keeps saying that it looks nothing like Ramy has drawn before is because Seki drew it.

jxchen


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jxchen
sefjwm wrote:Look at the wolf's face. It looks pretty identical. Oh and the reason everyone keeps saying that it looks nothing like Ramy has drawn before is because Seki drew it.


I've placed the images side by side. It is a stylized wolf in profile with it's mouth open. The similarities end there.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
mrwednesday wrote:The problem is that you have no idea what the staff member in question has a hand in. It may not mean there is a big conspiracy but it also may mean that there is. Either is just as likely with the information you have. Regardless, it implies tacit support of this design by the staff or woot itself that is not being given to other shirts.

The bottom line still stands, staff should not be commenting on shirts with staff accounts unless there is official business being handled. Personal opinions should be just that and handled with a personal account or not at all.


If woot wants to support a particular design i see no problem in that. they post up honorable mentions from every derby and no one has a problem with those, except when they dont pick the design they like. oh wait, that is what this is about right? YOU just dont like the artist they chose to support? ive seen woot staff comment on other designs many times and this is the first time i've heard of anyone having a problem with it when its posted on a ramy design.

as for me i see the woot staffers as any other person, they have opinions and can vote for what they want. i dont think there is some super evil masterminded plot behind it.

Thaleia


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Thaleia

well, I like it. I also worry that the image as a whole is too dark (more red, maybe some lighter blue?), but I think that this is as on theme as anything else. The criticisms of being off theme are really too harsh for a contest like this. It's art, open to interpretation, and the wolf looks pretty scary to me. I know a lot of people don't like Ramy's history (and frankly, I'm one of them), but the "off-theme" comments just come off as bitter. chill

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
megsck wrote:If woot wants to support a particular design i see no problem in that. they post up honorable mentions from every derby and no one has a problem with those, except when they dont pick the design they like. oh wait, that is what this is about right? YOU just dont like the artist they chose to support? ive seen woot staff comment on other designs many times and this is the first time i've heard of anyone having a problem with it when its posted on a ramy design.

as for me i see the woot staffers as any other person, they have opinions and can vote for what they want. i dont think there is some super evil masterminded plot behind it.


I've actually never seen staff comment positively on any artist but ramy. It's only been a few times, but it's more than should be happening for any artist. The only other artist I've seen get a staff comment was the "hacked" account incident where an artists was told more or less that they suck.

But again, your arguments are completely circular. YOU just like the artist they chose to support so YOU don't have a problem with it.

As for HM's the last I checked they weren't given on the basis of the artist, but on the basis of the quality of the design (ever noticed that ramy never gets any?) so though it's been lacking a bit, there really isn't much artist favoritism there.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
mrwednesday wrote:
But again, your arguments are completely circular. YOU just like the artist they chose to support so YOU don't have a problem with it.

As for HM's the last I checked they weren't given on the basis of the artist, but on the basis of the quality of the design (ever noticed that ramy never gets any?) so though it's been lacking a bit, there really isn't much artist favoritism there.


i dont think you pay much attention. no where in my post did i say anything about liking this artist. i've never voted for ramy designs because i personally wouldn't wear any of them, but i have no personal vendetta against him either. Also i never said that woot picked HM's based on the artist, in fact i think its obvious they pick based on just what they like, which is why you get a large variety of artwork in the HM's. which is also why you shouldnt be upset when they post comments. individuals post comments based on what design they like, not the artist, although they may be a fan of the artists style and so like their artwork consistantly. and i've seen other woot staff comments on other designs, so this isnt an isolated case.

chennai8


quality posts: 2 Private Messages chennai8

If you guys put the number of words you write in these threads into a novel or non-fiction, It'd be totally worth it.

neyfam2000 wrote:Woot!--going from "Deal-a-day" to "Site-a-day"

Shoppingdingo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Shoppingdingo
ramyb wrote:When you are afraid of the dark, the shadows start to take on shapes. The idea was that she is in no danger, but feels that she is being followed in the shadows. She is trying to remain calm but is clutching her basket tightly. I wanted to do something subtle, rather than having her screaming in terror at the thought of a shadowy wolf. Hopefully this comes through in the design


sorry.. doesnt..

especially since shes red riding hood.. it implys the wolf is actually real, not a fear induced vision

Gatzby


quality posts: 43 Private Messages Gatzby
mrwednesday wrote:The problem is that you have no idea what the staff member in question has a hand in. It may not mean there is a big conspiracy but it also may mean that there is. Either is just as likely with the information you have. Regardless, it implies tacit support of this design by the staff or woot itself that is not being given to other shirts.

The bottom line still stands, staff should not be commenting on shirts with staff accounts unless there is official business being handled. Personal opinions should be just that and handled with a personal account or not at all.


Generally speaking, there are only a small handful of people that have any influence over which shirts are chosen. Namely, people like Joel, shirt's Fearless Leader. Staff members that comment on a shirt one way or the other should not be considered as supporting or detracting from a shirt -- simply offering a personal opinion. For most intents and purposes, consider them similar to write-ups.

In most cases, staff members have the exact same interface as everyone else and use features like tattle.

Did you know shirt.woot ships internationally? Get you some!
Why do my posts always get deleted? -- Noise Reduction -- Try it in podcast format.
No, you can't have our iPod, keys, or Lego. Sorry.

DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 162 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
mrwednesday wrote:I've actually never seen staff comment positively on any artist but ramy. It's only been a few times, but it's more than should be happening for any artist. The only other artist I've seen get a staff comment was the "hacked" account incident where an artists was told more or less that they suck.


Cough, I'm not interested in this argument but I have to take exception to the idea that the staff doesn't comment on any artist but Ramyb positively. I have seen quite a few woot staff members comment positively on many artists in the derby. A quick google check brings up a couple examples:

Like this one from the last derby... which was replying to another staffer who also commented positively.

There's also this one from the Devo derby.

One from the dance derby.

One from the sun derby.

I've seen a lot more but it's not one of those things I keep track of other then to note that it happens. Anyway, please carry on.

Edit: Here's one from the Cities derby.

CityVelo


quality posts: 1 Private Messages CityVelo
DianaSprinkle wrote:...I have seen quite a few woot staff members comment positively on many artists in the derby. A quick google check brings up a couple examples:

examples, examples, examples




Thanks for doing that. I thought it was a ridiculous argument to make and I know I've seen staff members commenting on other designs.



More to the subject of the shirt design, I think the design of the background is something unique to the artist (I haven't seen it handled in this way before by the artist). The trees turned out well. However, to really make it more dynamic, I think having a stronger sense of contrast would benefit the design a lot. Right now, it's muddled. And the most well-done element of this piece is completely lost in that muddling.

I think it's worth it to the artist to continue trying to incorporate these types of backgrounds with the characters of focus. As always, work on your ability to break those constraining borders that the design places upon itself.

It's an odd thing to nitpick about, but the shape of the lighter values of the background seems off-balanced in a way. I get what the intention was -- the wolf fading into the darkness -- but I also wonder what it would have been like if there was a bit of the background to the right of the wolf helping define its silhouette and kind of balancing that light value a bit more.

*shrugs*

warriorcatsfan24


quality posts: 0 Private Messages warriorcatsfan24
Re: Fear of the Dark


i don't think it necessarily shows the phobia, but it's still a pretty bloody design. I can still get the fear vibe from it.

srm8ib4


quality posts: 5 Private Messages srm8ib4
Re: Fear of the Dark


it's sad how people spend hour after hour trying to find anything to disqualify ramyb's entries.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy
srm8ib4 wrote:it's sad how people spend hour after hour trying to find anything to disqualify ramyb's entries.


usually it only takes about 30 seconds

blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
ChaoticMidget wrote:http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=30946

Alright, I retract from this statement. The above is what I was thinking of. There is something uncomfortably familiar about ramyb's design of riding hood though and I know I've seen it somewhere before.


Perhaps you mean this one from the crypto 2 derby? That's what I was reminded of.
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=45128

mitchellp


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mitchellp
Re: Fear of the Dark


What???? No bunnies.... Inconceivable

mikenytola


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mikenytola
Gatzby wrote:In most cases, staff members have the exact same interface as everyone else and use features like tattle.

Please tell me you mess with others staff members and tattle on them for no reason. haha

ChaoticMidget


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ChaoticMidget
blanked wrote:Perhaps you mean this one from the crypto 2 derby? That's what I was reminded of.
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=45128


Not even that. I just knew from the thumbnail it was a ramyb shirt, which is slightly peculiar considering it is enough of a deviation from his usual style where I shouldn't have been able to assume that automatically.

blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
ChaoticMidget wrote:Not even that. I just knew from the thumbnail it was a ramyb shirt, which is slightly peculiar considering it is enough of a deviation from his usual style where I shouldn't have been able to assume that automatically.


So you recognize LRR, did he do fairy tales a-z at one point? Tho if that, or something similar, is why you recognize her it's unlikely to be grounds for rejection as it is substantially reworked. And if that is how the girl was done it would explain why she looks (to me) like a sticker placed in an unrelated scene.

IAmProZac


quality posts: 0 Private Messages IAmProZac
AdderXYU wrote:The major difference there is that there is at least a confrontation of the fear. There is no confrontation here either. The riding hood character looks neither defiant nor fearful. Neither of them are directly "phobia" related (and that's the theme, not "fear." Fear needs to be present to justify the phobia, but the phobia needs to be present to be on theme), but you can make a far more lucid and intelligent argument for Stardamsel's based on the image itself. There is zero context clue in this design that the riding hood character is even aware of the lupine-representation-of-fear, let alone facing a fear or being fearful of it.

Combine this with the similar shirts listed, and the being undeniably similar in theme and execution to a Sekiyoku piece, also off theme and not rejected in its derby, and this should be gone yesterday.


So, I get from your post that in the version of Little Red Riding Hood you read, Red and the Wolf were bestest buddies that met up in the woods and then went to Red's grandma's house where she baked them a cake and everyone had a good time! You're arguing that "The shirt does not convey a fear/phobia" when you've been able to use your deductive reasoning to determine what the fear is. You're not asking "What fear/phobia is being represented?" I'd say that makes a good argument for following the theme.

And obviously, shirts with Red and Wolf have been done, so no one is ever allowed to make a shirt with Red and Wolf ever again. EVER. Oh god, there's multiple shirts in the derby representing a fear of spiders! They're all copying each other!

Hope this design wins. It's been a while since there was a design I was sure I would buy if it won.

cobbewebbe


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cobbewebbe
nabesmer wrote:I'm sorry but a female walking alone in the dark, even trying to keep her cool, doesn't have body language like this. It's a beautiful illustration for a strong female perhaps but this doesn't work as a phobia illustration.

A woman would never shield her peripheral vision and would be hard pressed not to at least occasionally look over her shoulder. Her head would be up and her expression would be clearly alert. Her shoulders would come forward a little and her arms would be closer/higher over her chest. Her legs would be close together and there should be movement to her figure since she would not slow even for a moment if she had a sense of impending danger.


Actually, she reminds me of me. When I was young I would go walking late at night in a black hooded cloak and combat boots. There were times I was so terrified my heart felt like it would burst from my chest, but you would never have known it to look at me. To protect myself I would project an image of fierceness, like I was the one you needed to be afraid of. Usually the toughest cookies are the most afraid on the inside.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
Re: Fear of the Dark


Don't mind me, I'm just taking notes, seeing which thread is longer, this one or the debate on "Along Came a Spider". Keeps me amused.

/edit to add: Da Winner, with 146 posts and counting!

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
paigeg wrote:Don't mind me, I'm just taking notes, seeing which thread is longer, this one or the debate on "Along Came a Spider". Keeps me amused.


LOL, I was wondering about this myself. ^^;

Ryuzaki


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Ryuzaki
Re: Fear of the Dark


Always a huge fan of your work. I'd have this shirt in an instant. The way I see it, she looks slightly frightened, but like if that wolf shadow attacks, she's about to go all Buffy on him. I bet there is a shadow-gun loaded with silver bullets inside that basket next to the goodies. Power to Little Red!

jessicainthehouse


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jessicainthehouse
forstycup wrote:Are the other larger red splotches supposed to represent more eyes and or creatures forming from the shadows?

If so, giving them some features would have conveyed that better in my opinion.


I disagree. When I was taking out the garbage the other morning in pre-dawn light (i.e., dark), all I saw at first were 2 sets of glowing eyes. I could only tell by their height that they were moose, and not bears. Sometimes NOT seeing the body shape/features makes it more scary!

nakkinyan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nakkinyan
Re: Fear of the Dark


Grats on winning the Derby, already bought mine.

L3g3ndQ


quality posts: 2 Private Messages L3g3ndQ

wow this won first.... HOW?!?!? B^( i just dont understand woot voters at all

kittysmellspoo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kittysmellspoo
L3g3ndQ wrote:wow this won first.... HOW?!?!? B^( i just dont understand woot voters at all


lol it's easy. Woot voters are also normal people that just wants the shirt. I'm buying one because I think the shirt looks cool. I don't know any of the artists here, so all of you are in one bucket to me. I only look at the shirt. Congrads for winning who ever did this shirt.

dragonvt


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dragonvt
kittysmellspoo wrote:lol it's easy. Woot voters are also normal people that just wants the shirt. I'm buying one because I think the shirt looks cool. I don't know any of the artists here, so all of you are in one bucket to me. I only look at the shirt. Congrads for winning who ever did this shirt.


My thoughts exactly. This is a cool shirt that I would want to wear. I don't care about the politics or know the artists. Particularly after all the cutesy, cartoony, chibi stuff that dominated last week's voting, I'm thrilled to see something like this win.

scarlettesong


quality posts: 3 Private Messages scarlettesong
nabesmer wrote:I'm sorry but a female walking alone in the dark, even trying to keep her cool, doesn't have body language like this. It's a beautiful illustration for a strong female perhaps but this doesn't work as a phobia illustration.

A woman would never shield her peripheral vision and would be hard pressed not to at least occasionally look over her shoulder. Her head would be up and her expression would be clearly alert. Her shoulders would come forward a little and her arms would be closer/higher over her chest. Her legs would be close together and there should be movement to her figure since she would not slow even for a moment if she had a sense of impending danger.


Sorry, but you must have not worried about the monsters under your bed because I definitely believed if I didn't look, and held really still then they would leave me alone.

Now a NORMAL girl walking alone at night might be observant, look over her shoulder often, but a scared girl may try to pretend it's not even there. I definitely got that feeling from this shirt.

However, I also got the feeling that she's not looking, but she's confident to face the wolf (must be that stance.) I love this shirt just for that reason. Yes, it invokes the creepiness of being afraid of the dark and all alone, but it also evokes the confidence to walk alone in the dark anyway. This is the only shirt from this derby that I would wear.

As for the artist bashing, where's YOUR shirt. And if you submitted one, it's not likely on this list so just shut up. I don't even know who this guy is because I haven't been around Woot long enough to have my opinions warped like some of you.

mogthemoogle


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mogthemoogle
Jestik wrote:"similar" shirts exist:



ShantyShawn's Red Riding Hood.


It may be similar, but your example also happens to be very ugly as a shirt, in my opinion. I say Ramyb's design is well done overall, even if it doesn't invoke a sense of fear for everyone. Nice design Ramyb, a well deserved victory!

nakkinyan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nakkinyan
Re: Fear of the Dark

Well I got this shirt and I think it is awesome, I have gotten compliments from others on it also.

nakkinyan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nakkinyan
Jestik wrote:"similar" shirts exist:



ShantyShawn's Red Riding Hood.


Ya now you were reaching, this would mean any red riding hood with the wolf would make it "similar". Her back is to the viewer, the shirt is white not black, the wolf is realistic not a stylized shadow, maybe I am missing it but I am not seeing red eyes (or any other eyes for that matter) looking at her.

He stuck to the story, red riding hood and the wolf in the woods, there is nothing else that is even remotely close to the same between the two.

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