Derby #169: Phobias
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Along Came a Spider

Along Came a Spider
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tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
Re: Along Came a Spider


Little Miss Muffet
Sat on a tuffet,
Eating her curds and whey;
Along came a spider,
Who sat down beside her
And frightened Miss Muffet away.

Arachnophobia in ryhme
Collab between me and Bassanimation

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
Re: Along Came a Spider


nice job you two, this looks absolutely horrifying and im kinda upset that i looked at this right before bedtime >_< magnificent illo and wonderful color. just beautiful.

sakleehop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sakleehop
Re: Along Came a Spider


Okay - I admit, I have a real phobia about spiders and this one just about sent me reeling!!!! I absolutely salute the art - tons of talent guys but the spider is freaking me out(!) and I'd probably have to be committed if I keep looking at it. You captured this phobia perfectly!!!

skippykj


quality posts: 16 Private Messages skippykj
Re: Along Came a Spider


Wow. zombtastic collaboration. I could go for a framed print of this. I could put it in the bathroom to scare the crap out of people

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
Re: Along Came a Spider


Wow. looks like a digital painting. I don't know if that was what you were going for or not, but Really, Really good stuff here!!! This is very talented.

Top Notch!

Edit: O there are two of you, huh? Who did what?


kushalm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kushalm
Re: Along Came a Spider


this is absolutely brilliant. Which one of you did the coloring, it's perfect, gorgeous, mind boggling even. Kudos to the two of you, maybe this could be the new derby dominating pair after Draxxx and CD.



skippykj


quality posts: 16 Private Messages skippykj
kushalm wrote:this is absolutely brilliant. Which one of you did the coloring, it's perfect, gorgeous, mind boggling even. Kudos to the two of you, maybe this could be the new derby dominating pair after Draxxx and CD.


Who will be next?
Ones I find fun to imagine are:
patrickspens & kdeuce
BootsBoots & edgarrmcherly
tgentry & ramyb

misrymonky


quality posts: 2 Private Messages misrymonky
sakleehop wrote:Okay - I admit, I have a real phobia about spiders and this one just about sent me reeling!!!! I absolutely salute the art - tons of talent guys but the spider is freaking me out(!) and I'd probably have to be committed if I keep looking at it. You captured this phobia perfectly!!!


ditto this! stab...yet NOOOO!

fishbiscuit5


quality posts: 35 Private Messages fishbiscuit5
Re: Along Came a Spider


Oh, wow! The artwork is incredible. Super collaboration!



midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
Re: Along Came a Spider


Well done! that looks freakin' ama-zing! well done on that coloring! 2 mustaches way up!

specsmachine


quality posts: 31 Private Messages specsmachine
Re: Along Came a Spider


I like how it looks like the front of a '57 Chevy from a distance, but when you get real close you see all of the horrifying detail!

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 214 Private Messages Spiritgreen
Re: Along Came a Spider


Little Miss Muffet has probably crossed state lines by this point. Scary. ^_^

Great design you guys! +1

Siax


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Siax
Re: Along Came a Spider


Amazing......just simply amazing.......

stardamsel


quality posts: 5 Private Messages stardamsel
Re: Along Came a Spider


Wow.. O_o Beautiful work, you guys!

wootvan


quality posts: 62 Private Messages wootvan
Re: Along Came a Spider


All-around terrific work...oh, and gross too!

sTyLeS


quality posts: 9 Private Messages sTyLeS
Re: Along Came a Spider


Wow, the coloring on here is just amazing. And the detail in the drawing makes it look so real...too real...

SunnyLea0


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SunnyLea0
Re: Along Came a Spider


Wow. This is beautiful. Really, really beautiful.

It reminds me of really quality picture book are (which I hope doesn't sound like an insult... I work w/picture books, and there's some great art to be found there!).

DoublEE


quality posts: 8 Private Messages DoublEE

Incredibly beautiful artwork. Hope I get the chance to buy one.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
Re: Along Came a Spider


Hi all, thanks for the wonderful comments and support!

This was a really cool idea TJost had. He showed me a rough sketch, then I did the initial linework and he finished it out with his amazing color work. When I was drawing the spider I looked at reference for a black widow. Holycowonacracker those things are scarrryyy. I've never had the misfortune (cookie, hehe) of seeing one in real life. (@_@)

This was a very cool collab to work on, thanks for working with me again, TJost!

Spider.....spider!!! -runs away squalling and swatting at myself-

fronnyar


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fronnyar
Re: Along Came a Spider


Now I'm going to have nightmares for a week...

:X

I'll vote for it and hope it wins for the sheer terror it invokes, but if I bought it, I'd never sleep!!

kieronalsmith


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kieronalsmith
Re: Along Came a Spider


I agree with everyone here -- great job of pulling together the derby theme and classic nursery rhymes in glorious design. *kudos!*

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
Re: Along Came a Spider


Impressive!

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

DoublEE


quality posts: 8 Private Messages DoublEE
bassanimation wrote:Hi all, thanks for the wonderful comments and support!

This was a really cool idea TJost had. He showed me a rough sketch, then I did the initial linework and he finished it out with his amazing color work. When I was drawing the spider I looked at reference for a black widow. Holycowonacracker those things are scarrryyy. I've never had the misfortune (cookie, hehe) of seeing one in real life. (@_@)

This was a very cool collab to work on, thanks for working with me again, TJost!

Spider.....spider!!! -runs away squalling and swatting at myself-


Nice work. Congratulations.

Drakxxx


quality posts: 16 Private Messages Drakxxx
Re: Along Came a Spider


Holy crap, look at you guys!

This is A+ A W E S O M E.


avhienda01


quality posts: 0 Private Messages avhienda01
Re: Along Came a Spider


HOLY SHHHHHHHHH~
AWE-SOME.
This is absolutely zombtastic! And so, so, so scary x_o. I don't think I'd wear this, but GMV on the amazing artwork alone.

P.S. you guys need to work together again sometime ;D

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
fronnyar wrote:Now I'm going to have nightmares for a week...

:X

I'll vote for it and hope it wins for the sheer terror it invokes, but if I bought it, I'd never sleep!!


I was thinking the same thing, haha! As someone who loaths anything with more than 4 legs, I would scream everytime I walked by a mirror if I was wearing this shirt!

That being said, I hope it prints, cause I'd stab to buy it and wear it to preschool birthday party or something. (tiny childrens run in terror while their moms run after me with bugspray and broomsticks) BUWAHAHAHA! FEAR MY CHEST SPIDER!

lucky1988


quality posts: 20 Private Messages lucky1988
Re: Along Came a Spider


Incredible collab! It looks like the Black Widow is about to jump from the screen on to my desk. +1

jxchen


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jxchen
Re: Along Came a Spider


This shirt will surely cause many an arachnophobe to run in terror. Very nice composition and coloring here. Great representation of the theme and a dynamic image overall.

PixelPants


quality posts: 68 Private Messages PixelPants
Re: Along Came a Spider


I just spent the last 10 mins staring at this, just trying to imagine how it was all done. It's quality through and through. Thanks to both of you for going all out on this one.

ressamac


quality posts: 4 Private Messages ressamac
Re: Along Came a Spider


Have you ever been scrolling along and your finger clicked something before your brain even processed it? Stunning work, guys!!

sasham62


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sasham62
Re: Along Came a Spider


Don't mind me, just adding to the heaping pile o' praise here. The coloring is superb* and the illustration --- right down to the crack in the porridge bowl, the detail on the spider and the tuffet! Very nicely done.
(So that's what a tuffet is...)

* (I was actually going to type "otterrific" just cuz, but decided not to.)

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
sasham62 wrote:Don't mind me, just adding to the heaping pile o' praise here. The coloring is superb* and the illustration --- right down to the crack in the porridge bowl, the detail on the spider and the tuffet! Very nicely done.
(So that's what a tuffet is...)

* (I was actually going to type "otterrific" just cuz, but decided not to.)


Oh good, I wasn't the only one surprised to learn that a tuffet is a real thing!

I want a tuffet that looks like a spider. That would be so cool!

Thanks so much again, everyone . Glad you are enjoying Mr. Spiderton and his creepyness ^_^.

SunnyLea0


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SunnyLea0
SunnyLea0 wrote:Wow. This is beautiful. Really, really beautiful.

It reminds me of really quality picture book are (which I hope doesn't sound like an insult... I work w/picture books, and there's some great art to be found there!).


*art

Picture book art.


Cantatus


quality posts: 6 Private Messages Cantatus

effiew


quality posts: 0 Private Messages effiew
Re: Along Came a Spider


I don't know how you managed to capture so much depth with just 6 colors and no gradients. I couldn't do anything like this with 6 days and a lot of free time.

Wow.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
effiew wrote:I don't know how you managed to capture so much depth with just 6 colors and no gradients. I couldn't do anything like this with 6 days and a lot of free time.

Wow.


I think you mean half tones. There are those, lots of them actually, no other way to pull off coloring like this on a shirt without them. I did two sets of seps with this piece, one is a simulated process separation which involves only a base white, red, grey and highlight white. The tonal values vary by using halftones and being printed on various amounts of underbase. The darkest reds you see are printed on no base so the color shifts due to the black of the shirt. I use this all the time doing professional seps of my art and others for screen printing. The other sep is a little more traditional (by Woot standards at least) and uses all six colors, but I don't think it will come out as nice as the first method.

Thanks for the support on this guys, I wanted to go all out and it was great working on another piece with Bass. I'm trying to cook up another design right now but doing the initial figure drawing is driving me crazy!!

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

Re: Along Came a Spider


Great job guys, I especially like the technique on the background and color choices.

H2ORip


quality posts: 1 Private Messages H2ORip
Re: Along Came a Spider


absolutely beautiful artwork there - ugh i hate spiders though, i could never wear this (or the misfortune cookie one), but really cool design. And the poem part was a nice touch....adds a good amount of meaning behind it.

january


quality posts: 41 Private Messages january
Re: Along Came a Spider


Absolutely GORGEOUS! I'm just worried that the detailing on the tuffet won't come out on the actual shirt.

DoublEE


quality posts: 8 Private Messages DoublEE

How is this shirt not in the fog?

DoublEE


quality posts: 8 Private Messages DoublEE
DoublEE wrote:How is this shirt not in the fog?


Alright...we've got some new hotness! Creeping towards the fog.

pretywtch


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pretywtch
Re: Along Came a Spider




Can I just go ahead and pay for mine now, please? Sinister and beautiful: a potent combination.

leafredleaf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages leafredleaf
Re: Along Came a Spider


This is the best Halloween shirt. I'm scared of it.

trekmiss


quality posts: 7 Private Messages trekmiss
Re: Along Came a Spider


I live in an area that has tons of black widows and brown recluses. I'm not scared of spiders, but I'm always aware to be on the lookout for them. This shirt made me dream of spiders last night! I couldn't get away from them! I think I may be arachnophobic now!

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
trekmiss wrote:I live in an area that has tons of black widows and brown recluses. I'm not scared of spiders, but I'm always aware to be on the lookout for them. This shirt made me dream of spiders last night! I couldn't get away from them! I think I may be arachnophobic now!


I live in an area where there should be tons of spiders, but I guess there's enough ruckus going on to keep them away. Is why I hate woodsy areas >_<;;. City, please. Concrete. Keep ur trees and monstars away!

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
Re: Along Came a Spider


STELLAR you two! I really, really hope the Woot community comes through for this one.

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 214 Private Messages Spiritgreen
tjost wrote:I did two sets of seps with this piece, one is a simulated process separation which involves only a base white, red, grey and highlight white. The tonal values vary by using halftones and being printed on various amounts of underbase. The darkest reds you see are printed on no base so the color shifts due to the black of the shirt. I use this all the time doing professional seps of my art and others for screen printing.

The other sep is a little more traditional (by Woot standards at least) and uses all six colors, but I don't think it will come out as nice as the first method.


Wow, advanced stuff.

This shirtcomp represents the way Woot would actually print it though, right? Straightforward halftones?

It's impossible to tell from the image. :-) It really looks like a digital painting.

blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
sakleehop wrote:Okay - I admit, I have a real phobia about spiders and this one just about sent me reeling!!!! I absolutely salute the art - tons of talent guys but the spider is freaking me out(!) and I'd probably have to be committed if I keep looking at it. You captured this phobia perfectly!!!


Funny, my problem with wearing the spider shirts doesn't have to do with MY phobias but of those around me..... Hey stop hitting me!! they're just ink!! HEELLPPP!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Re: Along Came a Spider


I hope this prints, so people can be absolutely disappointed when it comes across as a smudge due to all the ludicrously tiny halftoning. Way to go guys!

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
AdderXYU wrote:I hope this prints, so people can be absolutely disappointed when it comes across as a smudge due to all the ludicrously tiny halftoning. Way to go guys!


Geez thanks Adder I'm glad you like my art enough now to want it to print finally Oh by the way before you start spouting off again like you know how screen printing works, think long and hard before you start typing something that will make you look like a silly little snake Below you will find a couple examples of my art and separations that have printed using (gasp) halftones, silly of me I know.

This print used almost the same setup and colors that I used to separate the spider art (though I did also use black on the car since it wasn't on a black shirt)





Here's one on a black shirt (actually its two shirts I did that I just layered, a long sleeve and the short sleeve)





So as you can see halftones don't really work and are a silly idea that no one in the industry uses, especially not an industry veteran that teaches industry workshops on proper color separation and theory and has done work and consulting for major apparel makers. Really it does make me blush that I would even question your authority in an industry you've never worked in

BTW do you know the difference between DPI and LPI, and what, in your professional experience is too small a halftone for garment printing, and would that be using plastisol or water based inks, and what mesh do you prefer for detail printing, a 225, 305 at what newton tension? Wait there I go questioning you again. I really gotta stop doing that, sorry.

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 214 Private Messages Spiritgreen
Re: Along Came a Spider


I need to go to the Tjost workshop, where do I sign up for that? :^)

(I also need lessons in How to draw like Bassanimation. Darn I bet this is getting expensive, but totally worth it!)

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
Re: Along Came a Spider


Simply gorgeous.

And FWIW...Black widows are highly venomous, yes, but they're very shy and passive spiders. Unless a there's an egg sac to defend, they retreat rather than attack most threats. My sister kept one as a pet for years, learned a lot about caring for them.

My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

theinfinityloop


quality posts: 6 Private Messages theinfinityloop
tjost wrote:Geez thanks Adder I'm glad you like my art enough now to want it to print finally Oh by the way before you start spouting off again like you know how screen printing works, think long and hard before you start typing something that will make you look like a silly little snake Below you will find a couple examples of my art and separations that have printed using (gasp) halftones, silly of me I know.

This print used almost the same setup and colors that I used to separate the spider art (though I did also use black on the car since it wasn't on a black shirt)





Here's one on a black shirt (actually its two shirts I did that I just layered, a long sleeve and the short sleeve)





So as you can see halftones don't really work and are a silly idea that no one in the industry uses, especially not an industry veteran that teaches industry workshops on proper color separation and theory and has done work and consulting for major apparel makers. Really it does make me blush that I would even question your authority in an industry you've never worked in

BTW do you know the difference between DPI and LPI, and what, in your professional experience is too small a halftone for garment printing, and would that be using plastisol or water based inks, and what mesh do you prefer for detail printing, a 225, 305 at what newton tension? Wait there I go questioning you again. I really gotta stop doing that, sorry.


It would be nice to know what maximum frequency of lines/dots per inch woot can handle. Those shirts didn't print here. I'm not an expert, but the quality of printing would depend on equipment, right? In the past, designs have been rejected for halftones being too complex. I can say that I personally haven't used this painting technique because I thought it wouldn't print well. To me, simulated process would be the method that would do this style more justice, but has woot said simulated process was allowed for Derbies? Did I miss that?


Earlysong


quality posts: 21 Private Messages Earlysong
tjost wrote: Major Pwnage


I L.OVE this design and would buy it, but the halftone thing is kinda scary. I will assume that woot won't be overly ambitious in printing and print something that looks awful.

Seriously, this design is wicked a.wesome.

I love this website! ^^

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
Spiritgreen wrote:I need to go to the Tjost workshop, where do I sign up for that? :^)

(I also need lessons in How to draw like Bassanimation. Darn I bet this is getting expensive, but totally worth it!)


Dude sign me up, I want to possess TJost's knowledge too! -crawls on belly-

Thanks so much, TJost, for posting about your processes. It's zombtastic to have someone around who works in this medium as a real profession. It provides a lot of insight into how things work, etc. Granted, someone who's not knowledgeable in this type of work who tried to make halftones like this might not get the results they want. I fully trust your work to print wonderfully :D.

Also, Spirit, your art is bloody! I don't think you want to draw like me ^^;. (<--hasn't printed own art from a derby in over a year) It's the other way around, I need to study your technique to improve myself.

-eats everyone's souls to gain their knowledges, om nom nom-

jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
Re: Along Came a Spider

Wow!! Another zombtastic collab... And wayyyy too scary! The spider is terrifying, as well the as the coloring. Amazing!


bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
Mavyn wrote:Simply gorgeous.

And FWIW...Black widows are highly venomous, yes, but they're very shy and passive spiders. Unless a there's an egg sac to defend, they retreat rather than attack most threats. My sister kept one as a pet for years, learned a lot about caring for them.


Ah, very nice information about Black Widows. I'm glad they're not aggressive, like funnel webs. Oh man. SCARY PANTS!

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
theinfinityloop wrote:It would be nice to know what maximum frequency of lines/dots per inch woot can handle. Those shirts didn't print here. I'm not an expert, but the quality of printing would depend on equipment, right? In the past, designs have been rejected for halftones being too complex. I can say that I personally haven't used this painting technique because I thought it wouldn't print well. To me, simulated process would be the method that would do this style more justice, but has woot said simulated process was allowed for Derbies? Did I miss that?


Those are good questions. These were printed with a line count of 47 lpi at 27.5 deg for the car and I think 67.5 deg for the bike (I may be slightly off on the numbers for the bike since it was printed over 4 years ago and my shop changed process a little in that time. These numbers are well within tolerance for most screen shops. High lpi is when you start getting in the 55+ range and need to use really high tension screens with a mesh over 300 thread count and a good open thread ratio (the threads can't be to thick or as you increase count the open area between threads dimenishes and doesn't allow ink to pass through effectively, in general high mesh is for detail, low mesh is for maximum ink penetration at the loss of detail) I think the base on these was on a 150 (the owner liked laying down a lot of ink for the base) and the color were a 225 mesh.

As far as equipment, from what I remember of pictures I've seen of Woot's printing area they are using at least one of the same presses that my shop uses, a 10 color M&R auto press (while it has 10 print heads you can't print 10 colors usually especially if you need to base because then some of those stations are taken up for either a flash or cool down). More recently I've been doing separation work for a friend of mine whose printing for a local micro brew/restaurant that insists on printing shirts with thier labels using photos of the Sierras and Yosemite. I've had to work some small miracles on these as my friend only has a 6 color manual press, but we've had zombtastic results. I'll see if I can grab a test print and post it on here later.

Now as far as separation technique, will my seps print, yes, will Woot print them, unkown at this point. Simulated process is not something you want to try though if you've never been taught or worked in an actual screen print shop and learned how bases work and how opaque platisol inks can fool the eye into think that more color blending is happening the what really is without buiding up on the shirt and making what's known as a bulletproof slab of ink (true process CMYK inks are not opaque, thus how they blend to produce almost every single image you've ever seen printed on paper). You have to be able to account for press ink gain, dot drop out on screens (generally any halftone 7% or lighter is not going to burn properly to a screen) be comfortable working in the alpha channel pallete in PS and know how to make it preview kinda close to how it actually prints (PS does a bad job at this but if you've done it enough you can tell whats going to work and whats not). Believe me I had some epic buttafuocoures when I first started doing this, but I was fortunate enough to work in a shop that encouraged me to go to the press, help print some shirts, see how buildup happened and sent me to some training classes. That's made me into an expert when it comes to simulated process. Do I know everything, no, can I keep learning, you bet and I intend to.

emberisle


quality posts: 1 Private Messages emberisle
specsmachine wrote:I like how it looks like the front of a '57 Chevy from a distance, but when you get real close you see all of the horrifying detail!


Haha. This! ^

emberisle


quality posts: 1 Private Messages emberisle

While half of it shot straight over my head, I deeply appreciate the time it took to go into these explanations. Would you be willing to post some details of this artwork? It's mindblowing.

ccazabon


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ccazabon

DoublEE


quality posts: 8 Private Messages DoublEE
AdderXYU wrote:I hope this prints, so people can be absolutely disappointed when it comes across as a smudge due to all the ludicrously tiny halftoning. Way to go guys!


It must kill a perpetually negative person like yourself when someone finds joy in something. Given the sentence of death by hanging, you'd complain the rope was too long. I wish woot had a block feature.

be10der2me


quality posts: 0 Private Messages be10der2me
megsck wrote:nice job you two, this looks absolutely horrifying and im kinda upset that i looked at this right before bedtime >_< magnificent illo and wonderful color. just beautiful.


Did you know the average person has as many as 60 spiders a year crawl into their mouth at night while they sleep? That's about one per week..EWW! Makes you want to duct tape your mouth before you go napping doesn't it?
Is this why you wake up and your mouth smells like..well...asspider?
I'm just saying!

be10der2me


quality posts: 0 Private Messages be10der2me
Re: Along Came a Spider


A spider is glorified and a silly snake is sent slithering back into the shadows TJ is my hero this week!
Bass you did a SUPERB job on the drawing and TJ...the colors are beyond expectation! Thank you for the in depth tutorials also!

I have 2 nieces who claim they are NOT scared of spiders...wait until they open this on Christmas morning!
Sign me up for at least 3!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
tjost wrote:Geez thanks Adder I'm glad you like my art enough now to want it to print finally Oh by the way before you start spouting off again like you know how screen printing works, think long and hard before you start typing something that will make you look like a silly little snake Below you will find a couple examples of my art and separations that have printed using (gasp) halftones, silly of me I know.


I think the point is that woot will not print this with the integrity you seem to think they will. Besides them having rejected far less fine halftones in the past, making your design an exception to the rule if it ever does print (speaking of those exceptions that are allowed to print, have you ever seen a Ramyglow in person? I'd like to think I rest my case), you are arguing that because someone else could do it, woot can.

I don't want to harp on how bloody it is that you like cars and motorcycles, because seriously, that'd be unfair to the rest of the designers who don't get to show off THEIR vehicular race designs. But what I will say is that years of buying overpriced concert tees in my younger days taught me something important when I got to woot: promotional tees and woot tees are not printed the same. Woot still cannot print the sorts of full-color photo work on many of those tees. So I appreciate the lesson in what other people's printing rigs can do, but as someone who has been here far longer than you have, and has seen a lot of what woot is capable of (and all things considered, they're capable of a good number of things print-wise), this will be the vast exception to the rule if it comes out looking like you want it to.

Compare woot to threadless to teefury to DBH to really any number of sites. Every site has different print capabilities, and every sites prints look different, even though every site is probably using similar equipment. And unless I start seeing work in this vein print regularly and regularly print looking like something viewable, I am going to work on the information I have about woot, not about some random print shop that likes motorcycles. Your vast knowledge does not necessarily apply here. As an industry veteran, I would have thought you'd know that different printers print differently.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
AdderXYU wrote:I think the point is that woot will not print this with the integrity you seem to think they will. Besides them having rejected far less fine halftones in the past, making your design an exception to the rule if it ever does print (speaking of those exceptions that are allowed to print, have you ever seen a Ramyglow in person? I'd like to think I rest my case), you are arguing that because someone else could do it, woot can.

I don't want to harp on how bloody it is that you like cars and motorcycles, because seriously, that'd be unfair to the rest of the designers who don't get to show off THEIR vehicular race designs. But what I will say is that years of buying overpriced concert tees in my younger days taught me something important when I got to woot: promotional tees and woot tees are not printed the same. Woot still cannot print the sorts of full-color photo work on many of those tees. So I appreciate the lesson in what other people's printing rigs can do, but as someone who has been here far longer than you have, and has seen a lot of what woot is capable of (and all things considered, they're capable of a good number of things print-wise), this will be the vast exception to the rule if it comes out looking like you want it to.

Compare woot to threadless to teefury to DBH to really any number of sites. Every site has different print capabilities, and every sites prints look different, even though every site is probably using similar equipment. And unless I start seeing work in this vein print regularly and regularly print looking like something viewable, I am going to work on the information I have about woot, not about some random print shop that likes motorcycles. Your vast knowledge does not necessarily apply here. As an industry veteran, I would have thought you'd know that different printers print differently.


Here's the problem with your argument. Woot has the designer's do their own seps basically and NONE of them make or know how to create there own bases for the inks. Generally this isn't a problem as most prints don't have halftones or they are very large and chunky. What this then does is make it so that Woot has to lay down a 1:1 ratio of base to top ink printed. This is not a good idea for halftone intense designs. Sites like Threadless have their team do the separations, not the artist, especially on painted type designs or photorealistic ones. What I have done is provide Woot with a viable separation including a proper base. Can Woot still mess it up, certainly, especially if they don't understand the importance of using the proper screen mesh to halftone values. I provided them with some when I sent the seps. Other things could affect the print as well, but I would say that most printers could print this piece with at least some success, and I do think woot is capable of it. Generally when there's a print that is bad it's because the art wasn't created or sep'd properly to begin with and if the seps aren't good then it only gets magnyfied on press.

Also the art was for clients. I have done many biker shirts and car show shirts but lots of other non vehicle related things too. I didn't really have a say as to what type of stuff I did so trying to stray off topic because the two references I happend to grab from my closet happened to not be your cup of tea is just silly, of course your ingnorance of that fact that screen printing businesses have to print what paying clients want further proves my point that you have zero business sense or knowledge. Anything else?

PS - Also on the point of fine halftones, I believe in my earlier post I talked about halftone fade out terminations and I have made shire that for the most part there are no fade outs that that drop below a 7-10% half tone size that would effect the integrity of the print. Others that were rejected had large ares of fine halftone fade out and since an appropiate base did not accompany them Woot had the right to reject them.

PPS - Adder here's some other art I've done if you scroll down in the comments that doesn't have Bikes or cars, well kinda, does an ATV count?

Gally242


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Gally242
Re: Along Came a Spider


Love the shirt! Wish I could block Adder.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
tjost wrote:Here's the problem with your argument. Woot has the designer's do their own seps basically and NONE of them make or know how to create there own bases for the inks. Generally this isn't a problem as most prints don't have halftones or they are very large and chunky. What this then does is make it so that Woot has to lay down a 1:1 ratio of base to top ink printed. This is not a good idea for halftone intense designs. Sites like Threadless have their team do the separations, not the artist, especially on painted type designs or photorealistic ones. What I have done is provide Woot with a viable separation including a proper base. Can Woot still mess it up, certainly, especially if they don't understand the importance of using the proper screen mesh to halftone values. I provided them with some when I sent the seps. Other things could affect the print as well, but I would say that most printers could print this piece with at least some success, and I do think woot is capable of it. Generally when there's a print that is bad it's because the art wasn't created or sep'd properly to begin with and if the seps aren't good then it only gets magnyfied on press.

Also the art was for clients. I have done many biker shirts and car show shirts but lots of other non vehicle related things too. I didn't really have a say as to what type of stuff I did so trying to stray off topic because the two references I happend to grab from my closet happened to not be your cup of tea is just silly, of course your ingnorance of that fact that screen printing businesses have to print what paying clients want further proves my point that you have zero business sense or knowledge. Anything else?

PS - Also on the point of fine halftones, I believe in my earlier post I talked about halftone fade out terminations and I have made shire that for the most part there are no fade outs that that drop below a 7-10% half tone size that would effect the integrity of the print. Others that were rejected had large ares of fine halftone fade out and since an appropiate base did not accompany them Woot had the right to reject them.

PPS - Adder here's some other art I've done if you scroll down in the comments that doesn't have Bikes or cars, well kinda, does an ATV count?


You are, of course, totally missing the point. I don't care what you've done elsewhere and what the halftone sizes have been. I don't care what wonderful separation skills you have. I couldn't care less the methods people use for the average design. All I am saying is, based on the shirts woot has printed, and the rejections they've made, this is probably not only going to print worse than you think it is, but could hypothetically be rejected, and if it is not, it is only because woot, as we all know, is inconsistent in what it rejects.

Besides sounding incredibly cocky talking about your stellar halftoning skills and separation abilities (as if other users don't have those same skills), you are not operating on what we know about woot. You are tooting your executional horn as if it changes the halftone size (we have no reason to believe similar rejected designs haven't been rejected with similar attention to detail). You are citing other printing presses as reasons woot's will print this well. And it may well be that you are proven right and I wrong (though when it comes to print quality, that's pretty rarely the case), but if that is the case, you got lucky and I got unlucky. There is zero evidence that halftoning this fine would print well, and more than enough evidence that woot is willing to reject rougher halftoning for being worried about the print. The facts of woot don't care how cock-sure you are you'll be different.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
AdderXYU wrote:You are, of course, totally missing the point. I don't care what you've done elsewhere and what the halftone sizes have been. I don't care what wonderful separation skills you have. I couldn't care less the methods people use for the average design. All I am saying is, based on the shirts woot has printed, and the rejections they've made, this is probably not only going to print worse than you think it is, but could hypothetically be rejected, and if it is not, it is only because woot, as we all know, is inconsistent in what it rejects.

Besides sounding incredibly cocky talking about your stellar halftoning skills and separation abilities (as if other users don't have those same skills), you are not operating on what we know about woot. You are tooting your executional horn as if it changes the halftone size (we have no reason to believe similar rejected designs haven't been rejected with similar attention to detail). You are citing other printing presses as reasons woot's will print this well. And it may well be that you are proven right and I wrong (though when it comes to print quality, that's pretty rarely the case), but if that is the case, you got lucky and I got unlucky. There is zero evidence that halftoning this fine would print well, and more than enough evidence that woot is willing to reject rougher halftoning for being worried about the print. The facts of woot don't care how cock-sure you are you'll be different.


i think you are missing the point adder, you commented on this thread giving no useful advice, no constructive critisism, you just posted a sarcastic comment bashing this design for no reason. the point is tjost knows what hes doing and he doesnt need your disrespectful comments. and if you think tjost sounds cocky sharing his knowledge of screen printing then im curious how you find your own long winded rants? to me they sound jealous and petty but that is just me and we all know what i think of you.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
megsck wrote:i think you are missing the point adder, you commented on this thread giving no useful advice, no constructive critisism, you just posted a sarcastic comment bashing this design for no reason. the point is tjost knows what hes doing and he doesnt need your disrespectful comments. and if you think tjost sounds cocky sharing his knowledge of screen printing then im curious how you find your own long winded rants? to me they sound jealous and petty but that is just me and we all know what i think of you.


His reason (and useful advice) is that he believes from past experience that woot can't print a design that looks like this mock-up. Seems pretty reasonable and useful to me. Could he have said it better? Sure. But that doesn't change anything.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
kylemittskus wrote:His reason (and useful advice) is that he believes from past experience that woot can't print a design that looks like this mock-up. Seems pretty reasonable and useful to me. Could he have said it better? Sure. But that doesn't change anything.


actually, it changes a lot.

trekmiss


quality posts: 7 Private Messages trekmiss
Re: Along Came a Spider


Just want to say that I hope this prints, and it prints well. It's so creepy. It may be the first shirt ever that I'll pay for overnight shipping, because I want to wear this on Halloween.

ETA: I just wish I could see an actual shirt before I order. It would really help.

JRWorkshop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JRWorkshop

I really wish I could draw digitally like that!!!


kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
megsck wrote:actually, it changes a lot.


What does it change? I can say, "You are wrong" or I say, "You know... I think that there are more correct ways of saying that." Either way, the message is the information you are disseminating is incorrect. I understand and agree that Adder is caustic, but his delivery doesn't change his message.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
kylemittskus wrote:What does it change? I can say, "You are wrong" or I say, "You know... I think that there are more correct ways of saying that." Either way, the message is the information you are disseminating is incorrect. I understand and agree that Adder is caustic, but his delivery doesn't change his message.


it changes how his "message" is recieved and whether or not we just ignore him completely because he's a jerk, or if we actually listen to what he goes on and on about.

indigohippie


quality posts: 0 Private Messages indigohippie
Drakxxx wrote:Holy crap, look at you guys!

This is A+ A W E S O M E.


HI! I'm a random wooter who actually has a question for you Drakxxx. Awhile back you designed a shirt called 'Rock. Paper. Dragon.', and my fiance saw it in the archives long after it had been retired and he absolutely laughed his head off. I would love SO MUCH to get him one for Christmas, but I've already checked Ebay and I know it's no longer available here, so I'm wondering if theres ANY WAY I can commission you for one somehow? Maybe through a different website? I'd pay a price worth your while just to see him open it Christmas day.

Please lemme know.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
indigohippie wrote:HI! I'm a random wooter who actually has a question for you Drakxxx. Awhile back you designed a shirt called 'Rock. Paper. Dragon.', and my fiance saw it in the archives long after it had been retired and he absolutely laughed his head off. I would love SO MUCH to get him one for Christmas, but I've already checked Ebay and I know it's no longer available here, so I'm wondering if theres ANY WAY I can commission you for one somehow? Maybe through a different website? I'd pay a price worth your while just to see him open it Christmas day.

Please lemme know.


Check teetrade.org. This is your only hope.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

rjohnson313


quality posts: 8 Private Messages rjohnson313
indigohippie wrote:I'm wondering if theres ANY WAY I can commission you for one somehow?


Artists have a contract with woot so are unable to do this... Could he wear an XL? http://teetrade.org/search.php

EDIT: Oops! That was a wanted posting on teetrade, not an available posting. You could try posting your own wanted or try the "world of woot shirts" forum, or sometimes artists buy some of their own shirts to sell...

More on topic-- NICE tjost & bass! GMV

mr96crabs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mr96crabs
Re: Along Came a Spider


i like when there is some ungirly shirts on here.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
AdderXYU wrote:{{mod edit: inappropriate paraphrasing? Don't do it.}}


No my dear silly Adder, you are missing the point. The pieces I showed you show that my separations are sound and print well. I do this for a living, I get paid by MULTIPLE COMPANIES using DIFFERENT presses at MANY DIFFERENT PRINTERS, from manual to automatic and consistently have excellent results. People don't hire me repeatedly because I might get "lucky" and have a print look good now and then. There are scientific principles used in garment screen printing and I've taken the time over the years to actually learn them. This is not a hobby for me.

I wasn't bragging about anything till you showed up and started talking about something that you have no idea on. Yes, Woot has printed less then stellar prints, but again that is because the art was not created to print well from the beginning and yeah I do have skills that others on this site don't have. I'm a good artist, but so are lots of people on WOOT, what makes me different is that I'm a good separator too and have industry experience.

To illustrate, you have two cabinet companies. One specializes in zombtastic staining and finishing but has workers that aren't very skilled or trained in cabinet building or installation. Another company also does stains and finishes but not quite to the same level or artistry that the first company does. However they have expert cabinet makers that have years of experience. You decide to go with the first company though and hire them to redo your kitchen. After they are done, while the cabinet surfaces look great, counters don't line up, shelves are not level, pieces fall off after use. What happened? They were skilled in one area of cabinetry but not in the important part which is making sturdy level cabinets. If you had gone with the second company, while the finish may not have been as artfully done, they would be solid and usable. I'm that second company, I know how to make things that work and look good. Art can look great on screen but if the separations aren't good, the bones of the shirt design really, the print will crumble when it goes to press. There are many good artists on Woot but they don't have the experience I have. You can't compare printing buttafuocoures that were done by unskilled shirt artists to someone who does them correctly all the time. Now do I still have prints that don't come out great, yeah I'm human, I make mistakes, but that is the exception not the rule.

{{mod edit: please keep your argument clean and refrain from personal taunts.}}

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
kylemittskus wrote:What does it change? I can say, "You are wrong" or I say, "You know... I think that there are more correct ways of saying that." Either way, the message is the information you are disseminating is incorrect. I understand and agree that Adder is caustic, but his delivery doesn't change his message.


Yeah you know because that line of thinking works great in international policy and foriegn affairs. Your wrong I'm gonna nuke you vs Your wrong and it would be advisable that you change your policies to not incur sanctions and the disapproval of your global neighbors. Which one would you want to be on the recieving end of. The way you say things makes all the difference. Don't be that guy.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
kylemittskus wrote:Check teetrade.org. This is your only hope.


Well you never know, he or CrescentDebris could have extras. And if sold at the same price, it falls under gifted and not resale. In most cases, artists always have extra merchandise, but mainly for showcase purposes.

I'd send him or CresentDebris a personal message (click the envelope icon by his name). Who knows if he will check back into this thread. It is a better way to get their attention.


chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
Re: Along Came a Spider


And also, to hop in this wonderful debate, wouldn't woot reject it if their screens weren't capable of printing the design? It seems like they have done it in the past ( I could be wrong). Many people don't understand screen process, so if any issue occur with the shirt, they are going to assume it is woots fault and not the artist. As a business, woot is probably going to go out of there way to protect their products' quality.

In summation, since this hasn't been rejected, it tells me that they a confidence in their screens and can print this successfully.


Spiritgreen


quality posts: 214 Private Messages Spiritgreen
Re: Along Came a Spider


Sticking to the technical side of the argument, it'll be -very- interesting to see if Woot accepts simulated process submissions now. That's the precedent you're setting here and it would change the derby drastically.

I'm 100% behind giving the artists new tools like being able to control underbase values. Wow, that would change how I work in a big way.

sTyLeS


quality posts: 9 Private Messages sTyLeS
be10der2me wrote:Did you know the average person has as many as 60 spiders a year crawl into their mouth at night while they sleep? That's about one per week..EWW! Makes you want to duct tape your mouth before you go napping doesn't it?
Is this why you wake up and your mouth smells like..well...asspider?
I'm just saying!


You seriously don't believe that do you?
Hrmm...too gullible.
http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/spiders.asp

benjaminleebates


quality posts: 5 Private Messages benjaminleebates
Re: Along Came a Spider


While I don't understand much of the technical aspects; I can appreciate the design. It would really bite if this shirt went to print, but the process ruined some of the detail. The REAL questions, in my mind, is that if the some detail was lost due to the printing process, how much loss would ruin the design?
What keeps me returning to WOOT, is that amazing artists like Tjost and Draxxx are often in the fog with shirts like The Great Hunt or Even Superheros have Phobias. The playing field FEELS more level here than elsewhere. Some of us with modest skills, can still compete with the big dogs of design...

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
Spiritgreen wrote:Sticking to the technical side of the argument, it'll be -very- interesting to see if Woot accepts simulated process submissions now. That's the precedent you're setting here and it would change the derby drastically.

I'm 100% behind giving the artists new tools like being able to control underbase values. Wow, that would change how I work in a big way.


I think even if this goes to print it won't be a green light for people to start doing simulated type designs. The artist would still have to provide proper alpha channel spot separations. It'll still probably be a case by case approach. While they're not the hardest thing to do right if you are intuitive and skilled in PS it does take time and experience to figure out what works and what doesn't and helps greatly if your trained by someone experienced. There may be some other artists familiar with them on here but I've never heard anyone say they were so I can't be certain. Woot's art staff may be though. What I would be willing to bet though is that Woot hired people with printing experience to run the presses in the first place and at least thier lead press person should have had experience with printing simulated process, almost every shop deals with it at least a little and they probably hired someone that had worked in a decent sized shop before working with automatic presses.

theinfinityloop


quality posts: 6 Private Messages theinfinityloop
Re: Along Came a Spider

This design indeed sticks out because it is done in a very painterly style. I can appreciate the layering and the unique approach. But for all of the high praise it's getting, let's not forget other elements that stand to be critiqued.

One, is it wearable? Not knowing this derby, this is simply an exaggerated illustration of a nursery rhyme. There's not a whole lot of concept to it. Not that there always has to be, but it's something I think worth asking. And does one really want to wear a giant realistic spider? Not to discriminate against spider enthusiasts, but really, what value does this have as a -shirt-? It's a serious question.

Two, as a composition, what is the focal point? The vibrant red of the tuffet is very demanding. It's dominant horizontal shape conflicts with the spider and the white in the bowl. My eyes have a hard time resting somewhere.

And three, does it fit well on the shirt? Again, that tuffet, even with its thought-out pattern and painted color appears as a large red horizontal blob from a distance.

The plethora of information in this thread says a LOT. And I see it's very much intended to be a LOT. But from a Derby artist's standpoint, I'm only going to simply take the fact that Woot did not reject this. Personally, that's the part that has the most worth to me.


kittypoocaca


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kittypoocaca
Re: Along Came a Spider


grossest shirt ever!

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
theinfinityloop wrote:This design indeed sticks out because it is done in a very painterly style. I can appreciate the layering and the unique approach. But for all of the high praise it's getting, let's not forget other elements that stand to be critiqued.

One, is it wearable? Not knowing this derby, this is simply an exaggerated illustration of a nursery rhyme. There's not a whole lot of concept to it. Not that there always has to be, but it's something I think worth asking. And does one really want to wear a giant realistic spider? Not to discriminate against spider enthusiasts, but really, what value does this have as a -shirt-? It's a serious question.

Two, as a composition, what is the focal point? The vibrant red of the tuffet is very demanding. It's dominant horizontal shape conflicts with the spider and the white in the bowl. My eyes have a hard time resting somewhere.

And three, does it fit well on the shirt? Again, that tuffet, even with its thought-out pattern and painted color appears as a large red horizontal blob from a distance.

The plethora of information in this thread says a LOT. And I see it's very much intended to be a LOT. But from a Derby artist's standpoint, I'm only going to simply take the fact that Woot did not reject this. Personally, that's the part that has the most worth to me.


I understand what your saying so I'll go over your points one by one.

1. Yes I think it's wearable, it uses classical compositional methods and placement of elements. You ask does anyone want to wear a giant spider and I'd say yes to that too. Do people want to wear shirts with giant skulls or bats, ponies or giraffes? Yes. Theres going to always be a set of people that like wearing certain things that others may not, even if they are creepy. Many people on this forum complain about too much cute stuff or always using puns, this shirt uses neither. It's mearly a dark take on a beloved nursery rhyme that almost everyone in America is familiar with. Why does it need to be anything else.

2. I used a very muted color pallete except for the red on purpose. The focal point IS the tuffet. Your supposed to look at that first and then be horrified to look up and notice that large dark spider. Are black widows really that big, no, but to people with arachnophobia they might as well be. Your supposed to be torn as to where to look after you see the spider, that was on purpose. The imagery and color pallete play to a goth feeling that I thought some would enjoy. I was actually listening to The Cure, and specifically Lullaby when making this.

3. The fact that you said the tuffet's bold color against an otherwise muted and dark pallete stands out and draws your eye answers your own question. You don't have to be able to tell what a shirt is from 30+ feet away. There's no rule saying that in shirt design, unless your making an event shirt and want big ol bright cars or words, like what Adder finds so terrible. That bright color can draw people in and once a person is within talking distance the image is more then clear.

For your closing thought, take to heart my response to Spiritgreen a few comments up about the potentiallity of Woot making this common practice. I'd look at it the same way they treat specialty inks, as a only once in a while thing, unless they bring someone on staff that can take someone else's art and separate it to print. I'm seeing that as more of a dalies type thing though as they'd have more control over it.

DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 112 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
Re: Along Came a Spider


Oh I really like how this one came out you guys. This is really awes0me. I'm not a big fan of spiders, eeppp get it off! Get it off! But this is really cool.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
tjost wrote:You ask does anyone want to wear a giant spider and I'd say yes to that too. Do people want to wear shirts with giant skulls or bats, ponies or giraffes? Yes. Theres going to always be a set of people that like wearing certain things that others may not, even if they are creepy. Many people on this forum complain about too much cute stuff or always using puns, this shirt uses neither. It's mearly a dark take on a beloved nursery rhyme that almost everyone in America is familiar with. Why does it need to be anything else.


I'd like to chime in on this particular item as well.

There are always shirts I would not consider wearing. I usually like the cute shirts, whereas many do not.

This is why the derby is here and why it is what it is. There are many, many types of art to choose from. Skulls, bunnies, robots, text-based, pop culture, anime, comic style, cats, dark humor, goth, etc. There is something to suit just about any taste, male or female, young or old. Each week people vote for what appeals to them or in many cases what's 'funny' or 'neat'. Many people like things without having a concrete reason as to why they like it. It is part of being human, and also a big part of what makes art "art". It doesn't need a reason to be what it is.

As for who would want to wear a giant spider, I won't lie, I typically wouldn't. They scare the pantaloons off me. I have, however, been to some reptile shows where they show spiders and bugs for enthusiasts, and man...those people loooooove their spiders. I see a lot of spider, roach, snake, scorpion, you-name-it shirts at those things ^^;. Animal enthusiasts will wear their favorite creature on a shirt no matter what it is. I don't know how many spider lovers we have at Woot, but there is in fact a group of people who are more than willing to don creepy arachnids on their chests :D.

I appreciate everyone's serious critiques here and I'm very happy people have generally received the design well . If it does make it to print I'll be eager to see how the image looks. I would never try this type of coloring myself as I just don't know enough about tee printing. All we can do is wait and see. ^^

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
tjost wrote:Yeah you know because that line of thinking works great in international policy and foriegn affairs. Your wrong I'm gonna nuke you vs Your wrong and it would be advisable that you change your policies to not incur sanctions and the disapproval of your global neighbors. Which one would you want to be on the recieving end of. The way you say things makes all the difference. Don't be that guy.


Your comparison is completely unequal. In your comparison, two different things are being said. The first is a violent threat. The second is a diplomatic one. Again, I'm not defending people who say things without tact (although I am often one of them as I can't understand the difference, honestly). I am merely saying that if the message is the same (which it is not in your example), then the way it is said should come secondary.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
tjost wrote:Yeah you know because that line of thinking works great in international policy and foriegn affairs. Your wrong I'm gonna nuke you vs Your wrong and it would be advisable that you change your policies to not incur sanctions and the disapproval of your global neighbors. Which one would you want to be on the recieving end of. The way you say things makes all the difference. Don't be that guy.


Your comparison is completely unequal. In your comparison, two different things are being said. The first is a violent threat. The second is a diplomatic one. Again, I'm not defending people who say things without tact (although I am often one of them as I can't understand the difference, honestly). I am merely saying that if the message is the same (which it is not in your example), then the way it is said should come secondary.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 214 Private Messages Spiritgreen
bassanimation wrote:
As for who would want to wear a giant spider, I won't lie, I typically wouldn't. They scare the pantaloons off me. I have, however, been to some reptile shows where they show spiders and bugs for enthusiasts, and man...those people loooooove their spiders. I see a lot of spider, roach, snake, scorpion, you-name-it shirts at those things ^^;.


Now honest, you only go to reptile shows to buy all the fluffy 'live food' and give it a happy home, don'tcha?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
tjost wrote:Yeah you know because that line of thinking works great in international policy and foriegn affairs. Your wrong I'm gonna nuke you vs Your wrong and it would be advisable that you change your policies to not incur sanctions and the disapproval of your global neighbors. Which one would you want to be on the recieving end of. The way you say things makes all the difference. Don't be that guy.


Your comparison is completely unequal. In your comparison, two different things are being said. The first is a violent threat. The second is a diplomatic one. Again, I'm not defending people who say things without tact (although I am often one of them as I can't understand the difference, honestly). I am merely saying that if the message is the same (which it is not in your example), then the way it is said should come secondary.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

grayehound


quality posts: 0 Private Messages grayehound
theinfinityloop wrote:This design indeed sticks out because it is done in a very painterly style. I can appreciate the layering and the unique approach. But for all of the high praise it's getting, let's not forget other elements that stand to be critiqued.

One, is it wearable? Not knowing this derby, this is simply an exaggerated illustration of a nursery rhyme. There's not a whole lot of concept to it. Not that there always has to be, but it's something I think worth asking. And does one really want to wear a giant realistic spider? Not to discriminate against spider enthusiasts, but really, what value does this have as a -shirt-? It's a serious question.

Two, as a composition, what is the focal point? The vibrant red of the tuffet is very demanding. It's dominant horizontal shape conflicts with the spider and the white in the bowl. My eyes have a hard time resting somewhere.

And three, does it fit well on the shirt? Again, that tuffet, even with its thought-out pattern and painted color appears as a large red horizontal blob from a distance.

The plethora of information in this thread says a LOT. And I see it's very much intended to be a LOT. But from a Derby artist's standpoint, I'm only going to simply take the fact that Woot did not reject this. Personally, that's the part that has the most worth to me.


Knowing in advance tjost already responded, it should go without saying that your first question is answered by the fact the design is in the fog. Sales after the fact (assuming it prints) will confirm whether or not the votes were for wearability or just a thumbs up for skill in art creation.

Your second point is a good observation, but I think the issue with the tuffet isn't that it contrasts with anything, it's that it bulges too much and is too round and shiny to look like a cushion. My first impression of the design was a spider on a red frog's head.

Finally, the tee image admittedly does show what the average viewer is going to see of the design most of the time...vague big red shape with a glow behind it and some grey shapes around it. Up close no one would argue with the subject, but you have a valid point IMO. It's a good rendering, and one I personally would like to buy if for no other reason than I want to see how woot handled the screens. I share Adder's skepticism that they will be able to do as clean a job on this as it deserves, but I'm more than willing to wait until after I see the final product to comment.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
Spiritgreen wrote:Now honest, you only go to reptile shows to buy all the fluffy 'live food' and give it a happy home, don'tcha?


Actually I have a rat buddy who's also a reptile lover, so I go with her sometimes.

But yeah...I always end up cuddling and cooing over the 'live food' :\. Is why I dislike the herp shows overall ^^;. Gorgeous, creepy, scary things to see, but I loves the rodenties too much ;_;.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
grayehound wrote:Knowing in advance tjost already responded, it should go without saying that your first question is answered by the fact the design is in the fog. Sales after the fact (assuming it prints) will confirm whether or not the votes were for wearability or just a thumbs up for skill in art creation.

Your second point is a good observation, but I think the issue with the tuffet isn't that it contrasts with anything, it's that it bulges too much and is too round and shiny to look like a cushion. My first impression of the design was a spider on a red frog's head.

Finally, the tee image admittedly does show what the average viewer is going to see of the design most of the time...vague big red shape with a glow behind it and some grey shapes around it. Up close no one would argue with the subject, but you have a valid point IMO. It's a good rendering, and one I personally would like to buy if for no other reason than I want to see how woot handled the screens. I share Adder's skepticism that they will be able to do as clean a job on this as it deserves, but I'm more than willing to wait until after I see the final product to comment.


To answer about the tuffet itself I was going for an overstuffed look. Here's some examples




The fabric has a slight shine on it because I was going for a silk type effect which does shine a bit unlike most natural fabrics. Goth imagery and style usually involves lots of rich fabrics and textures, lace, silk, velvet, suede, albiet in dark tones and colors usually.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
tjost wrote:To answer about the tuffet itself I was going for an overstuffed look. Here's some examples




The fabric has a slight shine on it because I was going for a silk type effect which does shine a bit unlike most natural fabrics. Goth imagery and style usually involves lots of rich fabrics and textures, lace, silk, velvet, suede, albiet in dark tones and colors usually.


I want that red tuffet for my office.... SWANK!

Stercrazy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Stercrazy
kylemittskus wrote:Your comparison is completely unequal. In your comparison, two different things are being said. The first is a violent threat. The second is a diplomatic one. Again, I'm not defending people who say things without tact (although I am often one of them as I can't understand the difference, honestly). I am merely saying that if the message is the same (which it is not in your example), then the way it is said should come secondary.


Oh for the love of Pete... Adder is a child swinging a baseball bat around blindly. His comment was totally ambiguous and could be taken as a slam at the artist. It doesn't matter that he was aiming at Woot. He hit TJost. Don't sit there and pull the indignant parent act - going on about how, "he didn't mean to hit you and if you hadn't been standing there he wouldn't have" garbage.

Adder made one of his usual uninformed attacks in the direction of an artist he's had issues with in the past, and the artist attacked back - HARD. Pulling the old "blame the victim" act and saying he has no right to be offended is just absurd.

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
Re: Along Came a Spider


let me preface my comment by saying I like the design and think you did a zombtastic job, but after further review I find the red tuffet reminds of Strawberry Shortcakes Hat.
I know its a tuffett and looks beautiful but from a distance some may think the same.
You guys rock!

grayehound


quality posts: 0 Private Messages grayehound
tjost wrote:To answer about the tuffet itself I was going for an overstuffed look. Here's some examples




The fabric has a slight shine on it because I was going for a silk type effect which does shine a bit unlike most natural fabrics. Goth imagery and style usually involves lots of rich fabrics and textures, lace, silk, velvet, suede, albiet in dark tones and colors usually.


Yea, I got that, and the subtle texture in there pulls off the cloth effect well, but as an initial read and especially from a distance, it looked to me very plastic-y and hard. That said, though, the effect wouldn't keep me from buying it and it didn't keep me from voting for it.

Should you ever volunteer to demonstrate how to pull off halftones like that, I know I wouldn't be alone in wanting to suck up every bit of info you could offer. I love vectors, but I would have a better time translating a digital painting like that to a design than vectors any day.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
grayehound wrote:Yea, I got that, and the subtle texture in there pulls off the cloth effect well, but as an initial read and especially from a distance, it looked to me very plastic-y and hard. That said, though, the effect wouldn't keep me from buying it and it didn't keep me from voting for it.

Should you ever volunteer to demonstrate how to pull off halftones like that, I know I wouldn't be alone in wanting to suck up every bit of info you could offer. I love vectors, but I would have a better time translating a digital painting like that to a design than vectors any day.


Yeah I understand It was a style choice and I stand by it but I see where your coming from. As for the half tone and separation training, I'll post a sign up sheet in the hall after the bell ;)

theinfinityloop


quality posts: 6 Private Messages theinfinityloop
tjost wrote:I understand what your saying so I'll go over your points one by one.

1. Yes I think it's wearable, it uses classical compositional methods and placement of elements. You ask does anyone want to wear a giant spider and I'd say yes to that too. Do people want to wear shirts with giant skulls or bats, ponies or giraffes? Yes. Theres going to always be a set of people that like wearing certain things that others may not, even if they are creepy. Many people on this forum complain about too much cute stuff or always using puns, this shirt uses neither. It's mearly a dark take on a beloved nursery rhyme that almost everyone in America is familiar with. Why does it need to be anything else.

2. I used a very muted color pallete except for the red on purpose. The focal point IS the tuffet. Your supposed to look at that first and then be horrified to look up and notice that large dark spider. Are black widows really that big, no, but to people with arachnophobia they might as well be. Your supposed to be torn as to where to look after you see the spider, that was on purpose. The imagery and color pallete play to a goth feeling that I thought some would enjoy. I was actually listening to The Cure, and specifically Lullaby when making this.

3. The fact that you said the tuffet's bold color against an otherwise muted and dark pallete stands out and draws your eye answers your own question. You don't have to be able to tell what a shirt is from 30+ feet away. There's no rule saying that in shirt design, unless your making an event shirt and want big ol bright cars or words, like what Adder finds so terrible. That bright color can draw people in and once a person is within talking distance the image is more then clear.

For your closing thought, take to heart my response to Spiritgreen a few comments up about the potentiallity of Woot making this common practice. I'd look at it the same way they treat specialty inks, as a only once in a while thing, unless they bring someone on staff that can take someone else's art and separate it to print. I'm seeing that as more of a dalies type thing though as they'd have more control over it.


1. Fair enough. Just wanted to bring it up for people to think about.

2. That's your choice, but I still find the tuffet a little uncomfortable as the focal point. Pun quite intended.

3. Even from 10 feet away, the shape of the tuffet is still demanding. And no, there is no rule. I'm not saying this is absolutely necessary to keep in mind when designing. I'm simply bringing things up that maybe should be considered by voters other than the painterly execution.


theinfinityloop


quality posts: 6 Private Messages theinfinityloop
bassanimation wrote:
There are always shirts I would not consider wearing. I usually like the cute shirts, whereas many do not.

This is why the derby is here and why it is what it is. There are many, many types of art to choose from. Skulls, bunnies, robots, text-based, pop culture, anime, comic style, cats, dark humor, goth, etc. There is something to suit just about any taste, male or female, young or old. Each week people vote for what appeals to them or in many cases what's 'funny' or 'neat'. Many people like things without having a concrete reason as to why they like it. It is part of being human, and also a big part of what makes art "art". It doesn't need a reason to be what it is.

As for who would want to wear a giant spider, I won't lie, I typically wouldn't. They scare the pantaloons off me. I have, however, been to some reptile shows where they show spiders and bugs for enthusiasts, and man...those people loooooove their spiders. I see a lot of spider, roach, snake, scorpion, you-name-it shirts at those things ^^;. Animal enthusiasts will wear their favorite creature on a shirt no matter what it is. I don't know how many spider lovers we have at Woot, but there is in fact a group of people who are more than willing to don creepy arachnids on their chests :D.

I don't think you have to have concrete reasons to like something either. I also do not mean to put down spider enthusiasts. I just want people to really consider the wearability as well as the style, and also to give a balanced critique. It's good to be nice and encouraging, but without keeping balance by offering other angles and considerations, this place is just going to become a meaningless pep rally high on Kool-Aid.


AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Stercrazy wrote:Oh for the love of Pete... Adder is a child swinging a baseball bat around blindly. His comment was totally ambiguous and could be taken as a slam at the artist. It doesn't matter that he was aiming at Woot. He hit TJost. Don't sit there and pull the indignant parent act - going on about how, "he didn't mean to hit you and if you hadn't been standing there he wouldn't have" garbage.

Adder made one of his usual uninformed attacks in the direction of an artist he's had issues with in the past, and the artist attacked back - HARD. Pulling the old "blame the victim" act and saying he has no right to be offended is just absurd.


From Bass's boyfriend, this makes a lot of sense. From an unbiased person, it doesn't.

Tjost "attacked back - HARD" in a fully childish way. He not only positioned himself as a singular authority that he is not (I would wager every artist here can pull off this style and doesn't because they both understand woot and respect their obviously ludicrously under-consistent rules regarding halftones), but his evidence had zero to do with woot itself. Woot hasn't rejected it. Woot didn't reject Jasneko's cave cheezburger cat, but they printed it terribly. That wasn't years ago. That was about a month ago. Could another site print it better? We don't know. It could be her fault, it could be woot's. But if it is woot's printing, then yes, another site could do it better.

It does not matter if a million other print shops do something one way. You can not presume that another site will do the same. Especially when that site regularly shies away from halftoning this fine, and has examples of halftones coming out horribly. Again, I invite anyone to look at just about anything ramy has halftoned. It is all poorly done, poorly printed, and not rejected despite this. Woot still doesn't have great glow ink, but they use it often considering the fact. And while there are certainly instances of impressive woot prints that people didn't expect to look so good, there are also prints that came out poorly. Which is exactly my point. tjost can insist anything he wants in his regular overcocky manner (as if two of us need to be), but it still has zero to do with woot. He is insisting that, because he has made a recipe, it is A) good (which is not even what I'm arguing, though I could), and B) any restaurant could prepare it, because he is a good cook and other restaurants have prepared totally different recipes.

Again, it is entirely possible I could be wrong, but also again, it will be counter-evidence. If I say global warming is real because there is a giant space dragon attacking us, it doesn't make me right when it's shown that global warming is real.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
Re: Along Came a Spider


I feel sort of lukewarm about this design. The concept doesn't really do much for me, but I appreciate the technique. I'm voting for it mainly because the debate here really has me interested in seeing how this prints.





tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
AdderXYU wrote:

Tjost "attacked back - HARD" in a fully childish way. He not only positioned himself as a singular authority that he is not (I would wager every artist here can pull off this style and doesn't because they both understand woot and respect their obviously ludicrously under-consistent rules regarding halftones), but his evidence had zero to do with woot itself.


Do you read comments before you respond or are you so on mission statement that you see that as uneccesary. I never positioned myself as an authority on the style I made it clear that I am a authority when it comes to separations, and I made that clear many times. I never said I was the best artist on here, though I think I do show a wide range of styles. And no not every artist on here can pull off this style. We don't live in a magic world full of artists that are all equal in all styles. That would be boring. I am a good artist but my real strength comes from technical knowledge, and variety of styles.


Woot hasn't rejected it. Woot didn't reject Jasneko's cave cheezburger cat, but they printed it terribly. That wasn't years ago. That was about a month ago. Could another site print it better? We don't know. It could be her fault, it could be woot's. But if it is woot's printing, then yes, another site could do it better.


Jasneko is a fine artist and has a specific style, but she would tell you that she is by no means an expert at creating halftones, and halftones are not separations. I don't think you understand the difference and that's the frustrating part. You spout off like an authority yourself and have NO EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD. I don't claim to be an expert in areas I'm not like you do. I glady take in knowledge and experience from others when I can. Are there others with more refined techniques or different styles then me when it comes to art on this site, yes, am I probably the most experienced SEPARATOR on this site, I would put money on it, because ITS MY JOB.


It does not matter if a million other print shops do something one way. You can not presume that another site will do the same.


Actually you can.


Especially when that site regularly shies away from halftoning this fine, and has examples of halftones coming out horribly. Again, I invite anyone to look at just about anything ramy has halftoned. It is all poorly done, poorly printed, and not rejected despite this.


Again your referencing Woot printing stuff that was made by artists that have not worked in screen print shops. People make things that are spot prints that require a low mesh screen to deposit large amounts of ink on solid areas of color and then add fine halftones and usually don't even know what LPI or angle there at that require higher mesh screens. You can't build art like that. Ramy, while doing lots of his little fan art, is not a professional artist, and certainly not a screen print artist, which in reality are two different things. He has no idea how to work in a production enviroment or how to preflight art for either offset of screen printing. Using him as a reference is a poor way to dodge my responses and say, "see woot sucks".


Woot still doesn't have great glow ink, but they use it often considering the fact. And while there are certainly instances of impressive woot prints that people didn't expect to look so good, there are also prints that came out poorly. Which is exactly my point.


Glow ink is a specialty ink and many shops suck at those. It's a novelty for most shops. Woot does you regular old plastisol on a regular basis and can print good quality things. And again referencing art from non screen print artists. There are many skilled artists that have had poor prints due to the fact they were not designing for screens, they were designing for the monitor of paper printing and have not worked in a shop.


tjost can insist anything he wants in his regular overcocky manner (as if two of us need to be), but it still has zero to do with woot.


Overcocky, thats cute, especially when your the one that started this and are known even by your supporters to be the king of overcocky (and you admitted in the above, besides why do you have the only license to be cocky you hypocrite). I'm not bragging I'm stating that I work in the industry and have years of experience.


He is insisting that, because he has made a recipe, it is A) good (which is not even what I'm arguing, though I could), and B) any restaurant could prepare it, because he is a good cook and other restaurants have prepared totally different recipes.


If someone has any kitchen knowledge then yes they are going to be more likely to make a tasty dish from a well prepared recipe from a experienced chef then from one that was written by someone who's never even cooked or been in a kitchen, sure there's going to be an chance that the second recipe works and is even really good but it's not likely.


Again, it is entirely possible I could be wrong...


How right you are


but also again, it will be counter-evidence. If I say global warming is real because there is a giant space dragon attacking us, it doesn't make me right when it's shown that global warming is real.


Unless there is a giant space dragon attacking us.

I have come back with both technical explantions and printed examples again and again yet you still say I don't know what I'm talking about or am tooting my own horn when all you can do is repeat, deflect and sound like an inexperienced initiate. If you want to put your money where your mouth is vote for it and shut up. If you don't want to still follow that last part. I'm done arguing with you on something that you have NO EXPERIENCE WITH.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
AdderXYU wrote:blabbity blabbity blah.



can we start implementing a character limit on posts in the derbies? that would be zombtastic and hilarious.

walmazan


quality posts: 62 Private Messages walmazan
Re: Along Came a Spider


wow! impressive work! congrats!

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
Re: Along Came a Spider


This shirt is mediocre at best. Kind of boring concept, but well executed. This thread, however, has my vote! The two biggest know-it-all blowhards this community has to offer, going at it, is great! Keep up the good work guys!

HujoeBigs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages HujoeBigs
Johndis5 wrote:This shirt is mediocre at best. Kind of boring concept, but well executed. This thread, however, has my vote! The two biggest know-it-all blowhards this community has to offer, going at it, is great! Keep up the good work guys!


Say what? Um there are many on this forum that are much larger of blowhards than tjost. Now for concept, can I see you do better? I love when people critize other peoples work with out showing a good use of the theme themselves. Tjost defended his claims with factual evidence and work that he has done before. Adder, now, I know you love to troll, but come on man, atleast get better fuel for your fire, all you have done after the first post is recoil and try to attack woot and certain artists that have no correlation to this thread.

Go back to your blog now please, go, shoo, you are not needed here. :D

Papaya79


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Papaya79
Re: Along Came a Spider


I love this piece! Even though creeping things are not my favorite subject, the art on this is just bloody. Nicely done bassanimation and tjost!

I find it ironic that Adder can call someone cocky as if it is a bad thing when that's his whole game. I don't think tjost is being cocky, but rather defending his knowledge. Good for you for sticking to your guns. I think it's clear that a great piece of art does not necessarily make a great shirt. However, when you know the science behind how it will appear on the shirt, the odds of it printing the way it should are great. This is not my line of work, but if someone sarcastically and unnecessarily attacked what I do and I know I'm good at it and did it the right way, why would I shy away from saying so? That doesn't make me conceited or arrogant, but confident in my ability. So, well played, tjost. Keep up the great art and thanks for sharing professional information with the Woot community.

Papaya79


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Papaya79

I didn't type "bloody", don't know why it was changed. How about lovely? zombtastic? You get the idea... :D

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
HujoeBigs wrote:Now for concept, can I see you do better? I love when people critize other peoples work with out showing a good use of the theme themselves.


The idea that one must be proficient in something in order to offer a critique is ghoulic at best.

ghoulic... nice filter.

AcorNayho


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AcorNayho

I know it's ad hominem, but it could've been said this way instead,

"I don't like these artists, therefore, I feel they should not succeed."

The point then, would be much more clear, without having to be under the guise of looking out for the average woot consumer. (which is pointless, because said consumers voted for this design, so why would he be looking out for them anyway). Should we listen more to the person who has experience creating these designs or the person who has experience looking at these designs? You either like these designs or you don't. Do we really have to resort to online bullying?

We get it. You think you're right, and we disagree.

That being said, I think this shirt is terrifying! It is very well done, which is not a surprise coming from Bass and TJost...

I'll say, "I like this design... and I like these artists. I sure hope they succeed".

Earlysong


quality posts: 21 Private Messages Earlysong
AcorNayho wrote:I know it's ad hominem, but it could've been said this way instead,

"I don't like these artists, therefore, I feel they should not succeed."

The point then, would be much more clear, without having to be under the guise of looking out for the average woot consumer. (which is pointless, because said consumers voted for this design, so why would he be looking out for them anyway). Should we listen more to the person who has experience creating these designs or the person who has experience looking at these designs? You either like these designs or you don't. Do we really have to resort to online bullying?

We get it. You think you're right, and we disagree.

That being said, I think this shirt is terrifying! It is very well done, which is not a surprise coming from Bass and TJost...

I'll say, "I like this design... and I like these artists. I sure hope they succeed".


I keep looking for "like" buttons on comments. They're never there.

I love this website! ^^

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
AcorNayho wrote:I know it's ad hominem, but it could've been said this way instead,

"I don't like these artists, therefore, I feel they should not succeed."

The point then, would be much more clear, without having to be under the guise of looking out for the average woot consumer. (which is pointless, because said consumers voted for this design, so why would he be looking out for them anyway). Should we listen more to the person who has experience creating these designs or the person who has experience looking at these designs? You either like these designs or you don't. Do we really have to resort to online bullying?

We get it. You think you're right, and we disagree.

That being said, I think this shirt is terrifying! It is very well done, which is not a surprise coming from Bass and TJost...

I'll say, "I like this design... and I like these artists. I sure hope they succeed".


Thanks AcorNayho, and thanks everyone who has supported this or commented. Sorry the thread got hijacked, and I'm sorry if I sounded like a braggart. I like what I do and am good at it and that may have come across too strong, so sorry. Thanks again and thank you Bass for the collab

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
tjost wrote:Thanks AcorNayho, and thanks everyone who has supported this or commented. Sorry the thread got hijacked, and I'm sorry if I sounded like a braggart. I like what I do and am good at it and that may have come across too strong, so sorry. Thanks again and thank you Bass for the collab


No problem, my friend ^_^. Always a pleasure!

I too would like to thank everyone for their input, be it positive or negative. We definitely tried for something a little bit out of the ordinary with this design. On one hand, I absolutely think the print concerns and other criticisms are well founded. But on the other hand, if we never try anything new we'll never know how it will be received. If this does make it to print then we can actually see the result ourselves and make a real judgment on if this type of coloring is right for Woot.

As for the image itself, I thought it was kind of neat to stray away from the typical cute or comical design to try for something really creepy. I really admire TJost's way with color and composition and am always amazed with what he manages to do with my simple line art. All we can do with each new piece or design is learn and keep trucking along.

Thanks for the support and comments everyone! Mr. Spiderpants was fun to watch this week, that's for sure. :D

blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
megsck wrote:can we start implementing a character limit on posts in the derbies? that would be zombtastic and hilarious.


+1


But I will say that considering woot's disclaimer about how it is their art now I sincerely hope they follow the pro's instructions. Tho I might just wait till it is in the reckoning to see if everyone is happy with the printing ;)

genuisdog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages genuisdog
Re: Along Came a Spider


Great design, I'd wear it for the Halloween season

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
Earlysong wrote:I keep looking for "like" buttons on comments. They're never there.


That's be nice, but a 'dislike' button would probably get much more use. Sadly.

/edit to add: @ 124 posts and counting. Not bad. And probably wins my personal, informal derby for post length.

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
bassanimation wrote:I too would like to thank everyone for their input, be it positive or negative. We definitely tried for something a little bit out of the ordinary with this design. On one hand, I absolutely think the print concerns and other criticisms are well founded. But on the other hand, if we never try anything new we'll never know how it will be received. If this does make it to print then we can actually see the result ourselves and make a real judgment on if this type of coloring is right for Woot.


Well said, Bass. Adder, take note: this is how you disagree without being a tremendous jerkface.

I'm with O-Roc's post (would quote, thread too long). Like him, I voted for this primarily b/c I'd be interested to see if this will print well, given TJost's expertise with seps. Is there a chance it won't print well, like the sabretooth cheezburger design? Sure. If it prints badly, though, it won't be the end of the world: most of us can live with that. And, yes, yes, I know "this contest is Very Serious: it's about more than a t-shirt, it's for one grand, blah blah."

That (sarcastically paraphrased) argument is quite valid when someone is being unethical or using stolen work. But when someone is using a new technnique to see if it will print well? I say, go for it: push the boundaries. If it doesn't work out, like I said, you get a bad print: the world doesn't end and no one with sinister motives would be rewarded. It would simply be a teachable moment on what does and doesn't work here at woot.

Mancho


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Mancho
tjost wrote:Unless there is a giant space dragon attacking us.

I have come back with both technical explantions and printed examples again and again yet you still say I don't know what I'm talking about or am tooting my own horn when all you can do is repeat, deflect and sound like an inexperienced initiate. If you want to put your money where your mouth is vote for it and shut up. If you don't want to still follow that last part. I'm done arguing with you on something that you have NO EXPERIENCE WITH.


The only problem I have with your response is your dismissal of his claims simply because he has no "experience in the field". While that is likely true, I'm more than willing to bet he has a plethora of knowledge of the quality of Woot's prints, particularly those with fine details. Will your process keep the drawing clean when it prints? I hope so, but that doesn't make Adder's concerns invalid.

bpr2


quality posts: 181 Private Messages bpr2

I was going to buy this shirt, but after seeing how the artist reacts in these situations of criticism. I'm not willing to hand over money to him.

that was fun while it lasted!

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
bpr2 wrote:I was going to buy this shirt, but after seeing how the artist reacts in these situations of criticism. I'm not willing to hand over money to him.


To each his own, we all have to follow our own conscience, and I always respect a person's rights to not patronize folks as a form of protest.

I might have been inclined to take your view, _if_ tjost had responded in this way to almost anyone else. However, Adder has a long history of antagonizing the guy, so I don't begrudge him a chance to hit back. In this instance, Adder had a very valid concern, but he chose to express it in the most insulting manner possible. Tjost responded to each specific point, so it's not like he went straight for the ad hominem--he just added a little vinegar to his (quite cogent) arguments.

Again, I don't begrduge you your personal boycott. I'm just explaining why I'm not joining you. Cheers.

cleverett


quality posts: 29 Private Messages cleverett
Re: Along Came a Spider


You were robbed...seriously. Unbelievable. Perhaps Adder's relentless smear campaign pushed some people away from voting for this design?

Please let me know if this design prints somewhere else, as I'll be in for one.

pg83161


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pg83161
cleverett wrote:You were robbed...seriously. Unbelievable. Perhaps Adder's relentless smear campaign pushed some people away from voting for this design?

Please let me know if this design prints somewhere else, as I'll be in for one.


I REALLY wanted this shirt, too.

doc11542


quality posts: 0 Private Messages doc11542
cleverett wrote:You were robbed...seriously. Unbelievable. Perhaps Adder's relentless smear campaign pushed some people away from voting for this design?

Please let me know if this design prints somewhere else, as I'll be in for one.


I agree. Hope it prints somewhere.

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