Derby #185: Things That Start with the Letter T

Awkward Turtle

More than 6 colors

Rejected because: More than 6 colors

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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: Awkward Turtle


saved

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
Re: Awkward Turtle


Just..... ugh... just stop.

megadog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages megadog


very awkward - I am sure the weight of its head would make it tilt a bit down on the left side

megadog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages megadog
megadog wrote:very awkward - I am sure the weight of its head would make it tilt a bit down on the left side


to be more specific
central point of fulcrum = ^is the middle of the shell
1 head + 2 feet ^ 2 feet
causes imbalance
unless of course it is feeling light headed lol

Jestik


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Jestik
Johndis5 wrote:Just..... ugh... just stop.



plz?



mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
Johndis5 wrote:Just..... ugh... just stop.


Call that fourthed.

wcsae


quality posts: 0 Private Messages wcsae
Re: Awkward Turtle


Should have been Tipped Turtle. Double T that way.

megadog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages megadog
mrwednesday wrote:Call that fourthed.


i am sorry but the legs furthest away are too long - the perspective is all wrong
If we helped this poor turtle out by turning it upside down - this is what you would get.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb348/megadog2/turtle.jpg

enuf said

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
Re: Awkward Turtle


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How long do you think it took him to pop this out after his apple got rejected? 10 mins?

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

megadog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages megadog
bluetuba wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How long do you think it took him to pop this out after his apple got rejected? 10 mins?


not long enough lol evidently lol

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
megadog wrote:not long enough lol evidently lol


If it will make him money, it is long enough. I give you about an hour before his sycophants (and also the sycophant brigade of the pre-derby thread) comes in to say IF IT MAKES MONEY IT IS OK. I mean hell, it obviously didn't take so little time that people won't vote. Though anyone with a shred of discernment could tell you that it's incredibly poorly composed and staggeringly uncreative.

At least it has a T in it, I guess. Unlike his other piece. Now where is that confounded piece?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: Awkward Turtle


This is hilarious for obvious reasons. It's also sad because it has a good chance of placing.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

lilaviel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilaviel
Re: Awkward Turtle


I think you guys are being unnecessarily harsh on this piece.

streetwalkincheetah


quality posts: 1 Private Messages streetwalkincheetah
Re: Awkward Turtle


I'm curious, has anyone ever been rejected here for submitting a design that was too close to one of their own prints? Or is that just considered having "a certain style"?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
lilaviel wrote:I think you guys are being unnecessarily harsh on this piece.


Stick around a while and you might start to understand why.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

thegeneticist


quality posts: 2 Private Messages thegeneticist
Re: Awkward Turtle


When someone writes an essay with the intention of submitting it to a writing competition, he/she will read it and re-read it once he's typed the last word (at least someone who loves writing enough to make sure his work won't be frowned upon because of a careless typo). On the other hand, someone who simply knows how to write well and who's also interested in winning the competition will effortlessly write an essay in half the time it took the other person to write it, and will immediately submit it as soon as he types the last word.

Now, what do essays have to do with shirt designs?

I couldn't help immediately noticing a short black vertical line near the turtle's right eye. It appears to serve no purpose there, rather than make people think that I carelessly got ink from a ballpoint pen on my shirt. It may not be a big deal for most, but it certainly is something that could have been fixed in less than two seconds. I noticed something similar in Melting Defenses but I kept quiet since I figured you may have done it intentionally (a diagonal black line to the right of the fire dragon's left nostril that again looks just off to me). Piece of advice Ramyb: just as the first writer lent an additional few minutes to his work, give your designs a careful look before submitting them.

megadog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages megadog
thegeneticist wrote:When someone writes an essay with the intention of submitting it to a writing competition, he/she will read it and re-read it once he's typed the last word (at least someone who loves writing enough to make sure his work won't be frowned upon because of a careless typo). On the other hand, someone who simply knows how to write well and who's also interested in winning the competition will effortlessly write an essay in half the time it took the other person to write it, and will immediately submit it as soon as he types the last word.

Now, what do essays have to do with shirt designs?

I couldn't help immediately noticing a short black vertical line near the turtle's right eye. It appears to serve no purpose there, rather than make people think that I carelessly got ink from a ballpoint pen on my shirt. It may not be a big deal for most, but it certainly is something that could have been fixed in less than two seconds. I noticed something similar in Melting Defenses but I kept quiet since I figured you may have done it intentionally (a diagonal black line to the right of the fire dragon's left nostril that again looks just off to me). Piece of advice Ramyb: just as the first writer lent an additional few minutes to his work, give your designs a careful look before submitting them.


Melting Defenses look at marshmellows left eye!!

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
Johndis5 wrote:Just..... ugh... just stop.


Fifthed!

tedschopf


quality posts: 3 Private Messages tedschopf
Re: Awkward Turtle


Whoa guys, don't hate on ramyb. According to the number of votes, I say this is a pretty good design. Everyone who voted on it liked it, except for a few critics who feel like every week they must bash his work. Why don't you guys all stop hating and say something positive for a change. Are you offended by his work? Just don't click on it then. I think you can all deal with a 1" by 1" box on the derby page. This is a cool concept Ramyb, +1

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
thegeneticist wrote:When someone writes an essay with the intention of submitting it to a writing competition, he/she will read it and re-read it once he's typed the last word (at least someone who loves writing enough to make sure his work won't be frowned upon because of a careless typo). On the other hand, someone who simply knows how to write well and who's also interested in winning the competition will effortlessly write an essay in half the time it took the other person to write it, and will immediately submit it as soon as he types the last word.

Now, what do essays have to do with shirt designs?

I couldn't help immediately noticing a short black vertical line near the turtle's right eye. It appears to serve no purpose there, rather than make people think that I carelessly got ink from a ballpoint pen on my shirt. It may not be a big deal for most, but it certainly is something that could have been fixed in less than two seconds. I noticed something similar in Melting Defenses but I kept quiet since I figured you may have done it intentionally (a diagonal black line to the right of the fire dragon's left nostril that again looks just off to me). Piece of advice Ramyb: just as the first writer lent an additional few minutes to his work, give your designs a careful look before submitting them.


I believe that vertical line is an eyebrow, and a very poor attempt at drawing an expression. Nevermind the fact that turtles don't have eyebrows.

You are correct though in that his work often looks very slapdash and unrefined though. He doesn't really have to show any skill or creativity to win, so why bother is the logic.

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

Jentacular


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Jentacular
Re: Awkward Turtle


The title of the entry and the positioning of the turtle reminded me of:

http://areyouaniceguy.com/products/awkward-turtle

Knarpulous


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Knarpulous
Re: Awkward Turtle


Guys? This is a T-shirt of a cartoon turtle. Not worth all the hate. Cartoons are not supposed to have realistic proportions/physics. ;)

thegeneticist


quality posts: 2 Private Messages thegeneticist
bluetuba wrote:I believe that vertical line is an eyebrow, and a very poor attempt at drawing an expression. Nevermind the fact that turtles don't have eyebrows.


I was actually referring to these lines:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/thegeneticist/woot.png

Assassin15


quality posts: 161 Private Messages Assassin15
bluetuba wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

How long do you think it took him to pop this out after his apple got rejected? 10 mins?


According to shirtwhat it actually wasn't ever rejected.

PULL UP YOUR SKIRT, WE'RE ON A MISSION/
WE NEED A HERO, NOT A POLITICIAN - "Panhammer" by Phinehas

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: Awkward Turtle


By the way, the perspective on this is so unbelievably off. It looks like we're seeing the turtle from straight on based on the shell. If this is true, then the legs in the back would appear shorter than those in front. For a real life example, check wine.woot anytime through Sunday to see this optical illusion.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
arroth wrote:reported for copy right infringement :P because of course RamyB cant come up with anything original


The last link is a shirt actually titled "Awkward Turtle" that features a turtle in the exact same position.

mindputtee


quality posts: 2 Private Messages mindputtee
tedschopf wrote:Whoa guys, don't hate on ramyb. According to the number of votes, I say this is a pretty good design. Everyone who voted on it liked it, except for a few critics who feel like every week they must bash his work. Why don't you guys all stop hating and say something positive for a change. Are you offended by his work? Just don't click on it then. I think you can all deal with a 1" by 1" box on the derby page. This is a cool concept Ramyb, +1


I used to defend Ramy or at least get upset with the people who seemed to be unnecessarily bashing his work. After a few months participating in the derby (both submitting and voting/commenting) I've come to understand the origin of a lot of these feelings. It gets frustrating to see very very similar designs from one artist continuously fogging and getting prints, especially when some of the other work done by the same artist has occasionally been very fresh and beautiful. To name a few:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=46604
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40484
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40760

Also, I've noticed that RamyB only enters a design when it has a good chance of winning (his average number of votes per shirt is 644, a staggering amount for most of us.)

I won't deny that ramy has skill, his print record definitely indicates that, but it becomes tiring to see the same thing get printed over and over again. I actually liked the technological tussle shirt. (It's connection to the theme and ability for woot to print it may have been arguable, but outside the derby, it's a fairly clever shirt.)

This design just strikes me as an oh-no-my other-design-got-rejected-better-resort-to-the-old standby-and-draw-something-cute design.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
thegeneticist wrote:I was actually referring to these lines:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/thegeneticist/woot.png


I actually thought it was suppose to be a small tear at first, but after closer inspection, it does look like a boo-boo. A tear made sense to me since turtles struggle on their backs... so i am told.


renegadetim


quality posts: 12 Private Messages renegadetim
Re: Awkward Turtle


So, no one has commented on this...

Is that a fanny pack? What is on the turtle's stomach?

Jestik


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Jestik
Re: Awkward Turtle



ramy, I try and be a positive presence in the forums, and not pile on anybody.

BUT, this is really bad. You should be embarrassed to submit this, dude.


zekecatz


quality posts: 201 Private Messages zekecatz
AdderXYU wrote:

At least it has a T in it, I guess. Unlike his other piece. Now where is that confounded piece?


Are you referring to the T for trademark entry?

emeraldchickpea


quality posts: 1 Private Messages emeraldchickpea
mrwednesday wrote:Call that fourthed.


It'll never stop.

We will see the same turtle rehashed until the end of time.

SunnyLea0


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SunnyLea0
Re: Awkward Turtle


I think an important question has not been asked...

What the heck is going on here?

And also:


renegadetim wrote:So, no one has commented on this...

Is that a fanny pack? What is on the turtle's stomach?

JoysAreJummy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JoysAreJummy
Re: Awkward Turtle


I like turtlez...


But not this one

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
thegeneticist wrote:I was actually referring to these lines:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/thegeneticist/woot.png


Ahh I see now, I thought that was a mark on my monitor, lol

I'm sure he pulled the apple shirt because he believed it was going to be rejected (or maybe it just wasn't getting enough votes), and if he didn't do it within 24 hours he'd be stuck with a REJECTED stamp. He does it alot, and I'd call it vain but I have no clue how often other artists do it too.

The dude calling everybody Jatravartid should chill out, he's just embarrassing himself and most of these comments are just going to get deleted by mods cleaning up anyway.

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

Salinga


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Salinga
Re: Awkward Turtle


People vote for this over the turtle tree?
How disappointing.

jensblackeyedsusan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jensblackeyedsusan
Salinga wrote:People vote for this over the turtle tree?
How disappointing.


I'm voting for it despite all of the complaints shown here. Why? Because I WOULD WEAR IT. Isn't that the point of this thing we call derby? I don't come to shirt.woot to question the artist's motvies...I come here to buy t-shirts. I'm a girl. Cutesy works for me.

I understand your frustration, and I think you have several good points (like the line on the turtle's face), but the fact of the matter is that even though you complain every time he puts a design shirt, it isn't changing his style, nor is it discouraging him from entering.

capedcrusader514


quality posts: 1 Private Messages capedcrusader514

I blows my freaking mind what people will actually buy from this site.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
jensblackeyedsusan wrote:I'm voting for it despite all of the complaints shown here. Why? Because I WOULD WEAR IT. Isn't that the point of this thing we call derby? I don't come to shirt.woot to question the artist's motvies...I come here to buy t-shirts. I'm a girl. Cutesy works for me.

I understand your frustration, and I think you have several good points (like the line on the turtle's face), but the fact of the matter is that even though you complain every time he puts a design shirt, it isn't changing his style, nor is it discouraging him from entering.


I don't think your comment is going to discourage people from critiquing/ criticizing his work either. Most the people comment here are die hard t-shirt enthusiast that want artists to bring their A-game. I actually admire their passion. I don't think they will stop until this artist stops, singing "We didn't start the fire" as they leave negative comments.

Also, for most of these members, its not just a question of would you wear it, but it's also a question of is this design really worth a minimum of a thousand dollars. They want to reward artist that have actually earned it... very passionate people we are dealing with here


tedschopf


quality posts: 3 Private Messages tedschopf
mindputtee wrote:I used to defend Ramy or at least get upset with the people who seemed to be unnecessarily bashing his work. After a few months participating in the derby (both submitting and voting/commenting) I've come to understand the origin of a lot of these feelings. It gets frustrating to see very very similar designs from one artist continuously fogging and getting prints, especially when some of the other work done by the same artist has occasionally been very fresh and beautiful. To name a few:

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=46604
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40484
http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=40760

Also, I've noticed that RamyB only enters a design when it has a good chance of winning (his average number of votes per shirt is 644, a staggering amount for most of us.)

I won't deny that ramy has skill, his print record definitely indicates that, but it becomes tiring to see the same thing get printed over and over again. I actually liked the technological tussle shirt. (It's connection to the theme and ability for woot to print it may have been arguable, but outside the derby, it's a fairly clever shirt.)

This design just strikes me as an oh-no-my other-design-got-rejected-better-resort-to-the-old standby-and-draw-something-cute design.


I guess everyone just has their different opinions about which art is good and which art is bad. Those links you showed me were some of his best work, and I admire his talent for that. However, I don't see many people bashing the designs that are worse then this. Some people just can't comprehend why the general wooters prefer one design over the other.

missmissa07


quality posts: 12 Private Messages missmissa07
jensblackeyedsusan wrote:I'm a girl. Cutesy works for me.


I'm a girl. Cutesy bothers me.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
missmissa07 wrote:I'm a girl. Cutesy bothers me.


I'm not a girl, but I don't mind cutesy. I think Walzaman's stuff is pretty cutesy. What I mind is horribly designed shirts that are a slap in the face to every artist who actually put effort and care into their submissions.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

jensblackeyedsusan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jensblackeyedsusan
missmissa07 wrote:I'm a girl. Cutesy bothers me.


So we're two different types of girls. So what? That doesn't change the fact that a lot of wooters like cutesy. Hence the fog.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
tedschopf wrote:I guess everyone just has their different opinions about which art is good and which art is bad. Those links you showed me were some of his best work, and I admire his talent for that. However, I don't see many people bashing the designs that are worse then this. Some people just can't comprehend why the general wooters prefer one design over the other.


If you're seriously curious, I can explain why I take the stance I do. I, of course, can't speak for everyone.

What frustrates me is that there are artists here who put substantial effort into creating original, intelligent, edited designs that are so often over-looked. Many of these artists' styles, I do not like so it's not like a "I want my artists to win" kind of thing.

Further, this designer has a history of stealing designs.ideas, not following the derby rules (sometimes blatantly ignoring them), and lacking any effort. This design, for example, is on topic but is nothing close to an original idea (see posts above for similar shirts). Further, there are blatant problems with the design itself like the perspective. And, it's just boring and looks exactly like 1/3 of his other designs. The other 2/3 are made up of swirlies and anime-like art.

It gets really frustrating when a shirt like this prints ahead of other artists who have respect for both the community and art.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

lilaviel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilaviel
Re: Awkward Turtle


Okay, NORMAL people won't look at this shirt and say, "EW One more gargleblaster lookit that awful rendering of perspective! It looks horrible!" They'll look at the cute turtle. And honestly, the perspective issue is barely noticeable to a normal eye.

Also those wondering why there's a fannie pack and glasses must have never watched Nickelodeon back in the '90's. ;)

maesk


quality posts: 0 Private Messages maesk
Re: Awkward Turtle


Ugh. As soon as I saw the derby theme, I knew this turtle would show up again. It's a bit sad when some shirts are expected to show up.

megadog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages megadog

it is not just bad use of perspective.
Look at the light source and shading - the light is coming from the left - so now look at the glasses - their shadow is on the left - do they have a different light source - no - thats just bad design

elviswind


quality posts: 1 Private Messages elviswind
maesk wrote:Ugh. As soon as I saw the derby theme, I knew this turtle would show up again. It's a bit sad when some shirts are expected to show up.


Just wait for the 'R' derby . . . .

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy

and there it is.

dgshinkle


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dgshinkle
Re: Awkward Turtle


of corse! the Awkward Turtle. Why didnt i think of that. Nice work.

Edison Plays Dirty STAFF: Well, I tried. Looks like the image won't stay until you buy something. Still, please don't post your derby entry in the body of posts.

lilaviel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilaviel
megadog wrote:it is not just bad use of perspective.
Look at the light source and shading - the light is coming from the left - so now look at the glasses - their shadow is on the left - do they have a different light source - no - thats just bad design


I still don't think it's that huge a deal. Honestly what actually bugs me is that little speck on the turtle's face. If I bought it (which I won't lie, I'd be tempted to), I'd be constantly picking at it making sure it's not a stain. But the lighting and perspective issues? Not so much.

I will admit, for an artist who's had so many of his works published, it's a mistake he shouldn't be making. But it's barely noticeable to the average eye.

tizbazua


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tizbazua
Re: Awkward Turtle


nice work ramyb,

wootfriends, i've only been in the scene for a couple weeks, but i'm starting to get a clue of how things work.

we're all wanting to judge everything as if they were in an art gallery, because it's part of the reason we come here. However, we can't critique the proportions and lighting angles of the mainstream cutesie cartoon, it doesn't make sense!!

graphics people like this are playing the derby for what it is, a competition. and they stick to the 'get instant votes' technique.

i would say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, but i'm like all of you. So, if you can't join 'em, beat 'em. people will eventually buy into art if it's original.

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
tizbazua wrote:nice work ramyb,

wootfriends, i've only been in the scene for a couple weeks, but i'm starting to get a clue of how things work.

we're all wanting to judge everything as if they were in an art gallery, because it's part of the reason we come here. However, we can't critique the proportions and lighting angles of the mainstream cutesie cartoon, it doesn't make sense!!

graphics people like this are playing the derby for what it is, a competition. and they stick to the 'get instant votes' technique.

i would say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, but i'm like all of you. So, if you can't join 'em, beat 'em. people will eventually buy into art if it's original.


Hang in there, buddy. Give it a month or two, you'll figure it out. Good luck.

tizbazua


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tizbazua
Johndis5 wrote:Hang in there, buddy. Give it a month or two, you'll figure it out. Good luck.


laugh out loud. Thx, i'm actually having a blast so far!!

MachineAmbition


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MachineAmbition

While I do think making money is OK and that this shirt is well done for what it is, I wouldn't vote for it, because I prefer something other than cute turtles drawn in this style. I can't design a shirt like this, so if I wanted one, I could turn to ramyb for a generous supply of them. But I don't really want one.

In fact, I am also sick of dinosaurs and shirts praising the eating of meat, but no one seems to mind those being in every single derby. And I'm sorry if this hurts someone's precious artistic sensibilities, but if it came down to it, I'd prefer this largely expressionless turtle to a shirt with a hamburger or a dinosaur.

Luckily, I don't have to vote for or buy any turtle, dinosaur or meat shirts.

tedschopf


quality posts: 3 Private Messages tedschopf
kylemittskus wrote:If you're seriously curious, I can explain why I take the stance I do. I, of course, can't speak for everyone.

What frustrates me is that there are artists here who put substantial effort into creating original, intelligent, edited designs that are so often over-looked. Many of these artists' styles, I do not like so it's not like a "I want my artists to win" kind of thing.

Further, this designer has a history of stealing designs.ideas, not following the derby rules (sometimes blatantly ignoring them), and lacking any effort. This design, for example, is on topic but is nothing close to an original idea (see posts above for similar shirts). Further, there are blatant problems with the design itself like the perspective. And, it's just boring and looks exactly like 1/3 of his other designs. The other 2/3 are made up of swirlies and anime-like art.

It gets really frustrating when a shirt like this prints ahead of other artists who have respect for both the community and art.


I understand your dissapointment. However, reality shows that the general wooters get what they want, and what they want is what they vote for. This isn't a deserve-to-win competition, and that's because Woot wants to sell the product most wooters like. Whoever wins does, and thats because people like voting on art that appeals to them, right then and there when they click on the derby image. Not everyone takes into account the hard work of artists who submit designs every week and never win. It's too bad the art critic's comments don't appear before the image, but that is good marketing on Woot's part to make sure they don't lose customers. Only a few people actually scroll down to watch the epic forum battles that are waged across work like ramyb's. Unfortunatly, derby's aren't only about who has the best art. It's also about who can appeal to the large pool of wooters through the use of common themes and interesting artistic tequniques.

faultylogic83


quality posts: 2 Private Messages faultylogic83
lilaviel wrote:Okay, NORMAL people won't look at this shirt and say, "EW One more gargleblaster lookit that awful rendering of perspective! It looks horrible!" They'll look at the cute turtle. And honestly, the perspective issue is barely noticeable to a normal eye.

Also those wondering why there's a fannie pack and glasses must have never watched Nickelodeon back in the '90's. ;)


Hooray for Rocco's Modern Life. Thanks for catching the reference, I completly missed it because I'm too caught with Ramy's clip art.

lilaviel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilaviel
tedschopf wrote:I understand your dissapointment. However, reality shows that the general wooters get what they want, and what they want is what they vote for. This isn't a deserve-to-win competition, and that's because Woot wants to sell the product most wooters like. Whoever wins does, and thats because people like voting on art that appeals to them, right then and there when they click on the derby image. Not everyone takes into account the hard work of artists who submit designs every week and never win. It's too bad the art critic's comments don't appear before the image, but that is good marketing on Woot's part to make sure they don't lose customers. Only a few people actually scroll down to watch the epic forum battles that are waged across work like ramyb's. Unfortunatly, derby's aren't only about who has the best art. It's also about who can appeal to the large pool of wooters through the use of common themes and interesting artistic tequniques.


I couldn't agree with you more. Although I would add that this isn't an art competition. Being an artist myself, I don't think it's fair when good art is forced to compete. This is a shirt competition. You get in to rough territory by calling it anything else.

mindputtee


quality posts: 2 Private Messages mindputtee
lilaviel wrote:I couldn't agree with you more. Although I would add that this isn't an art competition. Being an artist myself, I don't think it's fair when good art is forced to compete. This is a shirt competition. You get in to rough territory by calling it anything else.


This is a shirt competition, I think the problem people have is that at woot you come to expect clever, well drawn shirts. This may be well done (if not well edited, it still admittedly has a quality of finesse to it) but it's not clever. It's a tired joke that has not been reinterpreted. So ramy added a fanny pack. Big deal, it doesn't change the joke at all. When I buy a woot shirt I want it to not be something I could get at any store in the mall, I want it to show intelligence, which this shirt does not.

I'm not saying that as a blanket statement none of ramy's work shows intelligence, I've seen quite a few of his cutesy shirts with the same kind of characters even that are clever or have made me laugh, this just isn't one of them and I don't think it belongs in the fog.

lunachica86


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lunachica86

At first i voted for this cause i thought it was cute but then i started reading comments and looking at it closer and it really is quite poorly done. I don't know what this other guys stuff looks like but unless people do what i did and just look at it quickly before voting i don't know how he gets so many printed

icymallard


quality posts: 4 Private Messages icymallard
Re: Awkward Turtle


yea ive been here for a while and at first, i didnt know what the big deal was.

And then, to my horror, I realized it...
And it haunts me every time...

AND IT NEVER ENDS.

SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!

=eyes bleed-

Sobbid


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Sobbid
JoysAreJummy wrote:I like turtlez...


But not this one


Filbert was better.

lancerc07


quality posts: 5 Private Messages lancerc07
Re: Awkward Turtle



If his methods are so cheap... then why not do as he? What? You can't?

Me thinks I spy some jealousy. His style is appealing to the mainstream populous... your style isn't.

You have three options:

Prefect your style without adapting, and maybe... just maybe... you can get to the top without "sacrificing" your art. It may take some work, but you should expect it.

Adapt your style until you get something that normal people, not self-proclaimed T-shirt enthusiasts, will buy.

Go somewhere else.
-------------------------

tldr; less QQ, more Turtles.


Siax


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Siax
lancerc07 wrote:If his methods are so cheap... then why not do as he? What? You can't?

Me thinks I spy some jealousy. His style is appealing to the mainstream populous... your style isn't.

You have three options:

Prefect your style without adapting, and maybe... just maybe... you can get to the top without "sacrificing" your art. It may take some work, but you should expect it.

Adapt your style until you get something that normal people, not self-proclaimed T-shirt enthusiasts, will buy.

Go somewhere else.
-------------------------

tldr; less QQ, more Turtles.


Because Artists are suppose to have pride in their work.

This is a person who does it for the money rather than the art and fun of being in the derby. The one thing that bugs me the most is that he doesn't even acknowledge his work, nor even take in the critique. He keeps on doing the same stuff! Their was a point where I was on his side but I'm done defending someone who doesn't use their talents for others.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
Siax wrote:Because Artists are suppose to have pride in their work.

This is a person who does it for the money rather than the art and fun of being in the derby. The one thing that bugs me the most is that he doesn't even acknowledge his work, nor even take in the critique. He keeps on doing the same stuff! Their was a point where I was on his side but I'm done defending someone who doesn't use their talents for others.


I think the weirdest part is that I only see three artists (that submitted to this derby) in this entire thread. One of them was me, and I feel my comments were neutral... nothing more than comments, observations. The other artists comments weren't bashing either; actually one was encouraging in my opinion.

So why did he/she have to attack us artist?


Siax


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Siax
chumpmagic wrote:I think the weirdest part is that I only see three artists (that submitted to this derby) in this entire thread. One of them was me, and I feel my comments were neutral... nothing more than comments, observations. The other artists comments weren't bashing either; actually one was encouraging in my opinion.

So why did he/she have to attack us artist?


Where you referring to me? Because by no means did i mean to offend you or the other artists. I just understand how others feel about him now.

and if you did refer to me, i haven't been submitting because of school.....>_<

Spiritgreen


quality posts: 214 Private Messages Spiritgreen
Re: Awkward Turtle


Ramy, your shirts always have a commercial sheen to them. They read at a glance, the colors are bright and balanced, and they're generally very wearable. These are all things the average shirt artist, objectively, can learn from.

For me it's actually a shame that your simple designs like this do so well because I enjoy it a lot more when you push yourself! It's great when you have more of your imagination on display, like the mallow knight and his chocolate shield in 'Melting defenses'. If this had been called 'Turtle Tipping' and the dude had been tipped over while he was asleep by a couple of redneck hermit crabs, then there'd be more to love.

Clearly your simpler designs like this still have a lot of fans, but I think more than anything it's the lack of a strong concept that wrankles your critics in this kinda case.

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf

I dunno.... who really cares. People crying about it give it more attention. If you don't like it don't click it. There are 200+ other designs to click. And if you like to say "you should be ashamed" etc... stop and think about it. Who are you? Are you the king of all shirt design submissions? if so you would have made shirt.woot derby and you would have made yourself the supreme ruler. People need to get a grip. ITS A SHIRT! Its not like he's spray painting graffiti all over a Rembrant or destroying all that may be holy. Its a SHIRT. If people stop crying and stop clicking, and he stops winning, he'll stop submitting this 'trash' as some think it is. If too many people who's shirts you don't like win and it ups your blood pressure, don't come back, don't get yourself all worked up. its a SHIRT! Is it really worth ruining part of your day getting all upset about? really? perspective here. he only does it because he wins.

and this post is in reference in to general comments, nobody in particular so don't go getting all worked up.

DJ9975


quality posts: 4 Private Messages DJ9975
MachineAmbition wrote:While I do think making money is OK and that this shirt is well done for what it is, I wouldn't vote for it, because I prefer something other than cute turtles drawn in this style. I can't design a shirt like this, so if I wanted one, I could turn to ramyb for a generous supply of them. But I don't really want one.

In fact, I am also sick of dinosaurs and shirts praising the eating of meat, but no one seems to mind those being in every single derby. And I'm sorry if this hurts someone's precious artistic sensibilities, but if it came down to it, I'd prefer this largely expressionless turtle to a shirt with a hamburger or a dinosaur.

Luckily, I don't have to vote for or buy any turtle, dinosaur or meat shirts.


Actually you could design a shirt like this. Simply take one of his previous turtle shirts, flip the turtle upside down as he did, and you are guaranteed to hit the fog with zero effort. Just sayin...

specsmachine


quality posts: 31 Private Messages specsmachine
chumpmagic wrote:I think the weirdest part is that I only see three artists (that submitted to this derby) in this entire thread.


That's because a lot of designers use an alt account so they won't have to worry about losing votes when they give an honest opinion.

JRWorkshop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JRWorkshop

I submit regularly here and I'm not afraid of saying that derby entries as dull and plane as this are an insult for the rest of designers who bring top quality artwork.


kate1188


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kate1188
lilaviel wrote:Okay, NORMAL people won't look at this shirt and say, "EW One more gargleblaster lookit that awful rendering of perspective! It looks horrible!" They'll look at the cute turtle. And honestly, the perspective issue is barely noticeable to a normal eye.

Also those wondering why there's a fannie pack and glasses must have never watched Nickelodeon back in the '90's. ;)



Fannie pack? As far as I can tell, Filburt Turtle didn't wear a fannie pack in Rocko's Modern Life, his pants were simply worn high with a large belt buckle. So if this is a Rocko's Modern Life reference, it failed.

lilaviel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilaviel
kate1188 wrote:Fannie pack? As far as I can tell, Filburt Turtle didn't wear a fannie pack in Rocko's Modern Life, his pants were simply worn high with a large belt buckle. So if this is a Rocko's Modern Life reference, it failed.


You're right! Totally missed that, lol. For some reason the glasses + fannie pack reminded me of Filburt.

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
JRWorkshop wrote:I submit regularly here and I'm not afraid of saying that derby entries as dull and plane as this are an insult for the rest of designers who bring top quality artwork.


I agree. You see designs like this and scratch your head wonderin' what the heck?!
So its that easy? Do the majority really want to wear this design? Really? I know the answer is "yes" because its in the fog but it amazes me each week seeing similar designs like this from Ramyb or others and wonder where the disconnect is between, I, as an artist, and the majority of voters.

I think what makes most artists upset is the ideas and work they themselves put in each week into their work which from an artist persepctive are clever and top notch are overlooked and passed over for a rather dull idea simply and fluffy-ily produced.

The conclusion repeats itself each week:
What the majority want is not what the artists want. That's how it appears to me.
I wouldn't want this design or many of the other designs Ramyb has printed here @ woot and further more the majority of the designs in the fog are not my cup of tea either.

But as many of the Ramyb supporters have stated, which have a lot of truth to it, as an artist in these competitions, you need to evolve or die. The disconnect between art and masses will always be found wanting. So if you want to win or compete as an artist you have adapt to the competition and give them what they want or stick to your principles and style and keep falling short.

That's what I get from all this.
Its frustrating but this is what the majority want and continue to want each week.
Its time to come to terms with that everyone.
I am.

IDEA: Can we have a Ramyb Redux competition? Take one of Ramyb designs redo it? Just a thought...

quantamm


quality posts: 85 Private Messages quantamm
wcsae wrote:Should have been Tipped Turtle. Double T that way.


Triple T: Topsy-Turvy Turtle

joemail11


quality posts: 34 Private Messages joemail11
Siax wrote:Because Artists are suppose to have pride in their work.

This is a person who does it for the money rather than the art and fun of being in the derby. The one thing that bugs me the most is that he doesn't even acknowledge his work, nor even take in the critique. He keeps on doing the same stuff! Their was a point where I was on his side but I'm done defending someone who doesn't use their talents for others.


So...He's not an artist, but rich?

Also, I don't care how long it took an artist to design a shirt, as long as the print appeals to me.

Which this one does NOT, by the way, but appeal to others it does. Very well.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
midgerock wrote:I agree. You see designs like this and scratch your head wonderin' what the heck?!
So its that easy? Do the majority really want to wear this design? Really? I know the answer is "yes" because its in the fog but it amazes me each week seeing similar designs like this from Ramyb or others and wonder where the disconnect is between, I, as an artist, and the majority of voters.

I think what makes most artists upset is the ideas and work they themselves put in each week into their work which from an artist persepctive are clever and top notch are overlooked and passed over for a rather dull idea simply and fluffy-ily produced.

The conclusion repeats itself each week:
What the majority want is not what the artists want. That's how it appears to me.
I wouldn't want this design or many of the other designs Ramyb has printed here @ woot and further more the majority of the designs in the fog are not my cup of tea either.

But as many of the Ramyb supporters have stated, which have a lot of truth to it, as an artist in these competitions, you need to evolve or die. The disconnect between art and masses will always be found wanting. So if you want to win or compete as an artist you have adapt to the competition and give them what they want or stick to your principles and style and keep falling short.

That's what I get from all this.
Its frustrating but this is what the majority want and continue to want each week.
Its time to come to terms with that everyone.
I am.

IDEA: Can we have a Ramyb Redux competition? Take one of Ramyb designs redo it? Just a thought...


Gaming the voting system and plagiarizing don't hurt either.





profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
kate1188 wrote:Fannie pack? As far as I can tell, Filburt Turtle didn't wear a fannie pack in Rocko's Modern Life, his pants were simply worn high with a large belt buckle. So if this is a Rocko's Modern Life reference, it failed.

Part of me does sorta remember an episode where he wears a fanny pack, though a quick google image search produced nothing. I'd have to plow through each episode on netflix to find it (not that I'd mind, I loved Rocko. "SPUNKYYYYY!!").

Frankly, until someone mentioned Filburt, I didn't make the connection with this design at all, assuming that was even Ramy's intent in the first place. Which, let's be honest, we probably won't know for certain since he rarely pipes up to clarify.

chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
Siax wrote:Where you referring to me? Because by no means did i mean to offend you or the other artists. I just understand how others feel about him now.

and if you did refer to me, i haven't been submitting because of school.....>_<


No, I was talking about the person you were responding to. He/ she was attacking artist for no reason it seemed.


midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
odysseyroc wrote:Gaming the voting system and plagiarizing don't hurt either.


I've heard that but why isn't something done about that? I see woot cracking down and copyright issues with other designs but never see Ramyb smacked for plagarism although I understand he has been accused of it several times over.

and with the "Gaming the system", I've heard that as well, along with alt accounts and what not. If this is going on it needs to stop. and woot needs to really put a stop to it and put into place a better authentication process for users and voting.

If these are really pushing the votes why isn't something done by woot?

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
midgerock wrote:I've heard that but why isn't something done about that? I see woot cracking down and copyright issues with other designs but never see Ramyb smacked for plagarism although I understand he has been accused of it several times over.

and with the "Gaming the system", I've heard that as well, along with alt accounts and what not. If this is going on it needs to stop. and woot needs to really put a stop to it and put into place a better authentication process for users and voting.

If these are really pushing the votes why isn't something done by woot?


That's the $1,000 question and the reason for all of the uproar in these threads.

Look at the Shirtwhat leader board. Do you find it alarming at all that Ramy and Seki have roughly twice the vote average that TGentry (most derby prints) does and a couple hundred more than Patrickspens. Tgentry isn't competing anymore, but Patrick occasionally will have a design that just flops, it's still in his same popular style, still the same quality of his other stuff, but for some reason it just doesn't resonate with the people. Ramy on the other hand, never has a bad derby, or what would be bad for him would be great for most other people here. You couple that with the other shady dealings in the past, and you can't help but feel like some shenanigans are going on here.





DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 112 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
odysseyroc wrote:Look at the Shirtwhat leader board. Do you find it alarming at all that Ramy and Seki have roughly twice the vote average that TGentry (most derby prints) does and a couple hundred more than Patrickspens. Tgentry isn't competing anymore, but Patrick occasionally will have a design that just flops, it's still in his same popular style, still the same quality of his other stuff, but for some reason it just doesn't resonate with the people. Ramy on the other hand, never has a bad derby, or what would be bad for him would be great for most other people here.


One thing I noticed is that Ramyb usually removes his entries that don't quickly shoot to the top. Getting rid of the low voted shirts would tend to skew his average higher then it already is.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
DianaSprinkle wrote:One thing I noticed is that Ramyb usually removes his entries that don't quickly shoot to the top. Getting rid of the low voted shirts would tend to skew his average higher then it already is.


Judging by shirt.what, he's had 2 removed designs that weren't rejected. I don't know how accurate their archive is, but doesn't sound like that's enough to skew the average.





profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
odysseyroc wrote:Judging by shirt.what, he's had 2 removed designs that weren't rejected. I don't know how accurate their archive is, but doesn't sound like that's enough to skew the average.

There are things missing from the Ramy archive. Two right off the top of my head include his Apple/Windows entry from this derby (which is listed on shirt.what) and his original Calvin and Hobbes entry from the Prehistoric Derby (which is not listed on shirt.what). His second C&H entry that was rejected is there though.

*EDIT* Which is not to say that shirt.what isn't a super-valuable resource, because it is. Just pointing out that there are designs that aren't listed on that site. Didn't wanna step on anyone's toes.

triatomico


quality posts: 0 Private Messages triatomico

Much of this conversation reminds me of some sports conversations:

"My team lost more games, but they're still the better team."

To which I reply, isn't winning more games what determines a better team by definition?

dmsohyea


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dmsohyea
profbrendan wrote:There are things missing from the Ramy archive. Two right off the top of my head include his Apple/Windows entry from this derby (which is listed on shirt.what) and his original Calvin and Hobbes entry from the Prehistoric Derby (which is not listed on shirt.what). His second C&H entry that was rejected is there though.

*EDIT* Which is not to say that shirt.what isn't a super-valuable resource, because it is. Just pointing out that there are designs that aren't listed on that site. Didn't wanna step on anyone's toes.


http://shirtwhat.com/archive_a.php?artist=ramyb&derby=&rejected=0&removed=0&sort=D

Both of those shirts are on shirtwhat...

Besides this point, chances are extremely good that Ramy is a cheater who has many accounts and votes for his own designs multiple times. Obviously other people like his designs too, however, I am a strong believer that he gives himself a significant head start.

odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
triatomico wrote:Much of this conversation reminds me of some sports conversations:

"My team lost more games, but they're still the better team."

To which I reply, isn't winning more games what determines a better team by definition?


Sure, until you find out about point shaving in basketball, fighters taking dives, Pete Rosing betting on games he was managing, etc. The integrity of the system is the thing in question here. Your analogy assumes that rules were enforced and adhered to. Certain people have a questionable past and a history of rigging votes (which isn't too hard to do in a contest like this), why should they get the benefit of the doubt?





kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
triatomico wrote:Much of this conversation reminds me of some sports conversations:

"My team lost more games, but they're still the better team."

To which I reply, isn't winning more games what determines a better team by definition?


Is the better team cheating? Stealing other teams' plays? I'm not saying that this shirt or artist cheats. Just speaking hypothetically, trying to understand the argument in context.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
triatomico wrote:Much of this conversation reminds me of some sports conversations:

"My team lost more games, but they're still the better team."

To which I reply, isn't winning more games what determines a better team by definition?

Three things.

One, sports are mostly objective: stats are determined by facts, points, assists, you name it. Art is largely subjective. To a certain point, you can say that one artist is more proficient or better skilled than another. That makes sense. But when you have two highly accomplished and talented artists, the determination of who is better becomes one of opinion and taste, not fact.

Two, sales don't inherently equal quality. Some of the best selling art in the world is seen as hackneyed garbage by people who "know" art (see Thomas Kinkade). That's true in the shirt world too.

Three, there are many allegations of cheating directed towards RamyB (I know, stop the presses, right?), and while I'm not going to pretend I know the truth, it's been happening for a long time and there's a lot of evidence for those who want to read it. It could certainly be argued that a sports figure that cheats in order to win is certainly not superior, otherwise we would look at Barry Bonds and Tonya Harding with complete admiration.

profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
dmsohyea wrote:http://shirtwhat.com/archive_a.php?artist=ramyb&derby=&rejected=0&removed=0&sort=D

Both of those shirts are on shirtwhat...

Apple/Windows, yes.
Calvin and Hobbes, no.
You will see one Prehistoric Calvin and Hobbes-related entry on shirt.what, the one with the big REJECTED stamp on it. That's the one he didn't pull. What you don't see is the original version he did, which he removed, which is not on shirt.what. If you saw it when it was briefly in that derby, you know what I'm talking about.

dmsohyea


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dmsohyea
profbrendan wrote:Apple/Windows, yes.
Calvin and Hobbes, no.
You will see one Prehistoric Calvin and Hobbes-related entry on shirt.what, the one with the big REJECTED stamp on it. That's the one he didn't pull. What you don't see is the original version he did, which he removed, which is not on shirt.what. If you saw it when it was briefly in that derby, you know what I'm talking about.


I wonder if the people at shirt.what were unable to save the image before he deleted it. It was only up for a couple days and probably caused the biggest stink I've ever seen on an entry.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
dmsohyea wrote:I wonder if the people at shirt.what were unable to save the image before he deleted it. It was only up for a couple days and probably caused the biggest stink I've ever seen on an entry.


It was up for less than 12 hours.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 112 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
odysseyroc wrote:Judging by shirt.what, he's had 2 removed designs that weren't rejected. I don't know how accurate their archive is, but doesn't sound like that's enough to skew the average.


The artist part of the archive on shirt.what is rather new and the rejected/removed reports are not completely accurate. Some of the entries I've removed to resub have shown up as rejected before.

profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
DianaSprinkle wrote:The artist part of the archive on shirt.what is rather new and the rejected/removed reports are not completely accurate. Some of the entries I've removed to resub have shown up as rejected before.

CURSE YOU SPRINKLE!!
I'm on to your little game!

arroth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages arroth
Re: Awkward Turtle


I like how even with 6-7 sites proving that this is copy right infringement even a site with a shirt with the same name and design, that this is still up. Ramy has to be cheating some how at this point. have a shirt that is a clear cut copy of someone elses design, even down to the name, and to still have this design in the fog? just saddens me

Drakxxx


quality posts: 16 Private Messages Drakxxx

I've drawn my ass off for these contests for some time now, and while I totally agree it can really break it off to see some of the stuff that wins win, in the example of Ramy's work, I personally find it tough to get mad at Ramy the guy all things considered.

If he does what he does, and it keeps winning, it just doesn't make sense for him to stop. While it's certainly a sad thing to come to terms with, there are those who enter these contests with the sole intention of cashing in, and unfortunately there aren't any rules against using that as you main motivation in entering these things. The voters vote on what they want, and thats how it works. We all knew that more or less going in. If someone comes across a winning formula, it might be hard to put that aside in favor of a certain perception of artistic integrity.

If vote duping and other shady things are happening, which I don't believe there has ever been any concrete evidence to support, it's up to this website to stop it obviously.
And if that is whats been happening, and it's been left unfixed all this time, well damn.





Pyro1910


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Pyro1910
Re: Awkward Turtle


+1 so it can print and woot/ramyb can face some awkward questions about copyright infringement

DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 112 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
profbrendan wrote:CURSE YOU SPRINKLE!!
I'm on to your little game!


LOLOL! I'm totally not posting to make people look me up on the archive, I swear!

Actually looking at my own archive there are tons of missing removed entries by me from before shirt.what started archiving artists. Most of the time I put a "Ver. 2" on the resubs so you can see where the missing entries should be.

joemail11


quality posts: 34 Private Messages joemail11
DianaSprinkle wrote:LOLOL!


Department of Redundancy Department.

marzipanapple


quality posts: 7 Private Messages marzipanapple
Drakxxx wrote:
If he does what he does, and it keeps winning, it just doesn't make sense for him to stop.


This is what I realized after a long time of resentment. Whether or not people agree that the artist is in the 'right', *they don't care*. This is the most important part! THEY DON'T CARE. You can rant until your fingers cramp and they will continue doing what makes them money. Some of them are even having fun doing it! Have you ever drawn a cutesy, meaningless picture? It's FUN. It can be relaxing. These people are having fun and making money. I'm sure they see no reason to stop.

I am in no way condoning the creation of meaningless, cute pictures in a contest where a lot of artists are putting forth their best. In fact, it still infuriates me when I see it in the fog when I know the artist could've done better. Especially when something I *know* was worked on falls out of the fog to make room for it.
I AM saying that if you have something legitimate to say (a critique or a notice that it's off topic) then say it.
Otherwise, please understand that you are probably wasting time that could've been better spent elsewhere on other entries encouraging artists who work hard. Give those who need it and are willing to listen help/advice. You might make a bigger dent.

cherylfrancis


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cherylfrancis
marzipanapple wrote:This is what I realized after a long time of resentment. Whether or not people agree that the artist is in the 'right', *they don't care*. This is the most important part! THEY DON'T CARE. You can rant until your fingers cramp and they will continue doing what makes them money. Some of them are even having fun doing it! Have you ever drawn a cutesy, meaningless picture? It's FUN. It can be relaxing. These people are having fun and making money. I'm sure they see no reason to stop.

I am in no way condoning the creation of meaningless, cute pictures in a contest where a lot of artists are putting forth their best. In fact, it still infuriates me when I see it in the fog when I know the artist could've done better. Especially when something I *know* was worked on falls out of the fog to make room for it.
I AM saying that if you have something legitimate to say (a critique or a notice that it's off topic) then say it.
Otherwise, please understand that you are probably wasting time that could've been better spent elsewhere on other entries encouraging artists who work hard. Give those who need it and are willing to listen help/advice. You might make a bigger dent.


Wow. I'm not exactly sure how to get in on this thread, so I'll just type here at the bottom. I am new to this site, new to the whole tshirt business. I've submitted 2 designs that have gone absolutely nowhere. You guys are ruthless, and I love it. It's good to be in a community where people stand up and shout. I know now to bring my a-game. Thanks!

baseballjf14


quality posts: 0 Private Messages baseballjf14
Re: Awkward Turtle


a few things...

I've posted a few designs on this site, and obviously I'm not really very good at this, however I do it for fun when I have free time, and usually get a vote from me, and a vote from my girlfriend, and maybe 5 or six sprinkled in from other people who it speaks to... no harm no foul right?...

now just a little change of pace (don't mean to offend anyone who actually likes Nickleback as crappy as I feel they are,) but I hate Nickleback, I feel they are no where near as talented as say Radiohead. Nickleback, from what I've heard of them, tends to take proven formulas and somewhat tailor them to their strenghts (as few strengths as they possess, ok I'll stop piling on lol) and continues to turn out hit songs across multiple platforms and stations. i.e.: top 40, Rock, Mix, alternative, etc.
However Radiohead never ceases to amaze me with their fresh new stuff that feels original and (as a fellow muscial artist myself) heartfealt.

Now with that being said, I am really not into mainstream art, persay, on my t-shirts. I love Drakxxx's drawings, and when coupled with Crescendebris' colors, I typically, but not always, seem to vote for them. Yet, I rarely find myself not voting for Ramyb. Nothing against Ramyb (I guess.) Just not my style, yet for some reason the colabs' stuff doesn't seem to print as much as Ramyb's does....

I guess this post ended up being a bunch of rambling, however I just wanna know, are these personal attacks at Ramyb as a person, or as an artist, b/c he is like Nickleback to me, but I can not fault the guy for using a tried and true formula to win, but if he is just a bad person I'd just like to know for my own edification...

P.S. I drank a little bit tonight... lol

fortinbras79


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fortinbras79
AdderXYU wrote:If it will make him money, it is long enough. I give you about an hour before his sycophants (and also the sycophant brigade of the pre-derby thread) comes in to say IF IT MAKES MONEY IT IS OK. I mean hell, it obviously didn't take so little time that people won't vote. Though anyone with a shred of discernment could tell you that it's incredibly poorly composed and staggeringly uncreative.

At least it has a T in it, I guess. Unlike his other piece. Now where is that confounded piece?



Seriously? What is with all the negativity? This guy created a funny image with ties to contemporary memes. Why would length of time (or god forbid) correct perspective matter?

Haters gonna hate

Personally I like it...for whatever that's worth.

devium


quality posts: 0 Private Messages devium

I think is interesting that Ramyb chooses to use this turtle so much. It kind of fits his persona. I mean, even though there is an army of people on here every week bashing his work for being consistently repetitive and uninspired(which it usually is), he usually gets the last laugh on all of them because he knows what gets votes and has no problem persistently riding that Jatravartid turtle(or mouse, or kitten etc.) to more paychecks than just about anyone else on this site.

tjsynkral


quality posts: 15 Private Messages tjsynkral
Re: Awkward Turtle


This T-shirt is Terrible

Siax


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Siax
chumpmagic wrote:No, I was talking about the person you were responding to. He/ she was attacking artist for no reason it seemed.


Ok thank you

bm13953


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bm13953
megadog wrote:to be more specific
central point of fulcrum = ^is the middle of the shell
1 head + 2 feet ^ 2 feet
causes imbalance
unless of course it is feeling light headed lol


or something heavy is in the fanny pack

mhlyle


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mhlyle
Re: Awkward Turtle


I think that if he allowed his designs to go through a typical cycle on the reckoning, or even stay there for a month or two, people would be a lot more forgiving. Instead, we see more and more of his designs winning while the old ones are rescued at the last second. So perhaps it isn't even so much the design itself that bothers people as it is the way his shirts never quite manage to go away. The current reckoning episode with Imposter is a perfect example of this. No matter how great of a design Ramy might come up with, all people can think of is how Imposter was pulled from the Reckoning after the deadline.

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf
Re: Awkward Turtle


The more i read the more i get the impression that this is all sour grapes... its a lot of "I worked harder...", "I'm more creative", "I'm this", "I'm that", cry...

Ramyb does what he does well. He likes turtles, bunnies, etc, and in general anything 'cute'. He knows it works and wins for him. These are shirts, not high class elitist snobby art like some people want them to be. get a grip. Personally I think its funny watching people get flamed by something that isn't even intended to flame. The dude/gal submitted a shirt, you don't like it, you cry.. Its going to happen next week, and the week after, and the week after that, and on and on... and you are going to let it get to you all because someone submits a shirt design you deem not suitable from your high horse.

renegadetim


quality posts: 12 Private Messages renegadetim
fuzznarf wrote:The more i read the more i get the impression that this is all sour grapes... its a lot of "I worked harder...", "I'm more creative", "I'm this", "I'm that", cry...

Ramyb does what he does well. He likes turtles, bunnies, etc, and in general anything 'cute'. He knows it works and wins for him. These are shirts, not high class elitist snobby art like some people want them to be. get a grip. Personally I think its funny watching people get flamed by something that isn't even intended to flame. The dude/gal submitted a shirt, you don't like it, you cry.. Its going to happen next week, and the week after, and the week after that, and on and on... and you are going to let it get to you all because someone submits a shirt design you deem not suitable from your high horse.


Honestly, you just don't get it. I'm not an artist, never will be. I buy shirts and this has gotten incredibly old.

He doesn't submit designs in derbies where he can't use certain gimmicks and has to come up with something new. Woot creates rules in derbies specifically so he won't bring back old used characters. He was missing from the last two derbies, wonder why? Couldn't use a cute turtle/animal design.

And frankly, why would anyone like to have a collection of 20 shirts with this same turtle on it? And what is the draw in this particular shirt at all? I mean, compared to all this turtle's other shirts this one simply makes no sense whatsoever.

Do people REALLY like cute cartoon turtles THAT much?

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf
renegadetim wrote:Honestly, you just don't get it. I'm not an artist, never will be. I buy shirts and this has gotten incredibly old.

He doesn't submit designs in derbies where he can't use certain gimmicks and has to come up with something new. Woot creates rules in derbies specifically so he won't bring back old used characters. He was missing from the last two derbies, wonder why? Couldn't use a cute turtle/animal design.

And frankly, why would anyone like to have a collection of 20 shirts with this same turtle on it? And what is the draw in this particular shirt at all? I mean, compared to all this turtle's other shirts this one simply makes no sense whatsoever.

Do people REALLY like cute cartoon turtles THAT much?



THEN DON'T CLICK!!! Quit the QQ lol. Every time he submits it turns into a QQ session of people crying they don't like his turtles and penguins, and they work harder, and they do this better, and they are more elite, and QQ, QQ, QQ, QQ.. He does turtles. If you don't want 20 turtle shirts, don't click. Its hilarious reading how upset people get over a turtle! For real.

I didn't see anyone crying about the 200 elephants, of which many looked nearly identical last week, or the bazillion "falling star" and "p*rn star" submissions the week previous... Where was the "its not creative enough for my epeen" then? People just being haters. If you can do better then do better. If you can get more votes, then get more votes. Its a shirt!!!!

frik


quality posts: 1 Private Messages frik
fuzznarf wrote:THEN DON'T CLICK!!! Quit the QQ lol. Every time he submits it turns into a QQ session of people crying they don't like his turtles and penguins, and they work harder, and they do this better, and they are more elite, and QQ, QQ, QQ, QQ.. He does turtles. If you don't want 20 turtle shirts, don't click. Its hilarious reading how upset people get over a turtle! For real.

I didn't see anyone crying about the 200 elephants, of which many looked nearly identical last week, or the bazillion "falling star" and "p*rn star" submissions the week previous... Where was the "its not creative enough for my epeen" then? People just being haters. If you can do better then do better. If you can get more votes, then get more votes. Its a shirt!!!!



ramyb? is that you?

No. Yes.

mindputtee


quality posts: 2 Private Messages mindputtee
fuzznarf wrote:THEN DON'T CLICK!!! Quit the QQ lol. Every time he submits it turns into a QQ session of people crying they don't like his turtles and penguins, and they work harder, and they do this better, and they are more elite, and QQ, QQ, QQ, QQ.. He does turtles. If you don't want 20 turtle shirts, don't click. Its hilarious reading how upset people get over a turtle! For real.


It's more than a "just don't click" issue though. If shirt.woot were more like threadless and there were tons of designs to choose from every day, I'd have no issue with ramy's shirts continually printing, but I do take issue when a shirt like this continually beats out shirts that I would actually want to wear.

The point of these threads is so that people can lobby for or against shirts they want and don't want. It can sway people's minds in voting, and that's what we're here to do. For that reason, I also think that attacking an artist himself is wrong. I won't deny that if I could draw a design like this every week and people would love it I would continue to do that, but this isn't quite my style. I like to draw things I enjoy not just things that I think will win. So what if my average votes is low? For me, art is about an expression and fun, and if I'm not enjoying what I'm making, I'll just stop working on it.

doctorhiggenbotham


quality posts: 0 Private Messages doctorhiggenbotham
Johndis5 wrote:Just..... ugh... just stop.


Seriously.

Oh, yay, this is beating out some truly great designs. /sigh

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf
mindputtee wrote:but I do take issue when a shirt like this continually beats out shirts that I would actually want to wear.


So the contest is good as long as something that you want to see win actually wins??

I've just taken notice that it just seems like its more of a beat up on Ramyb thing every time he submits. Like I said, he does turtles, its not that hard to understand. People like turtles, and he's smart enough to keep rehashing the same old theme (and penguins, bunnies, etc). And it IS as simple as "just don't click". Obviously someone is clicking. So what if it not you (not YOU in particular). Click what you like and what happens happens. Life goes on. They are shirts.

@Frik
I am not Ramyb, nor do i know him/her. I just think its silly that people are getting this upset over a turtle ON A SHIRT.

darrentf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages darrentf

[quote postid="4340299" user="fuzznarf"]So the contest is good as long as something that you want to see win actually wins??

I've just taken notice that it just seems like its more of a beat up on Ramyb thing every time he submits. Like I said, he does turtles, its not that hard to understand. People like turtles, and he's smart enough to keep rehashing the same old theme (and penguins, bunnies, etc). And it IS as simple as "just don't click". Obviously someone is clicking. So what if it not you (not YOU in particular). Click what you like and what happens happens. Life goes on. They are shirts.quote]

fuzznarf, I think you need to read a bit more in the thread.

If the clicking is being done by the artist to drive votes, drive the shirt into the fog, drive it to print which will result in money for the artist, that is a problem.

If the art itself isn't original, and by that I mean stolen not just "bad" or "not my style", then some other artist somewhere is being harmed. Some other artist's work is being used to generate an actual monetary gain.

This is all a bit deeper if this artist is using alternate accounts to "create" votes for his own entry, and if this artist takes designs from other artists. It isn't about the 50 or 100 or 200 votes that are actually individuals who like cute turtles. There can be fans of this artist's work, but it isn't fair at all to the other entries and entrants if this artist's work comes out pre-packaged with a large number of votes from the artist's own accounts, nor is it fair if this artist took someone else's work and made it his/her own.

BTW, the Calvin & Hobbes issue really drives this home for me. I'm a huge C&H fan, and just read the Retrospective book last night. Bill Watterson worked very hard to protect his art, and he deserves to have his creation stand as he wanted it to.

1st Burgandy Olfactory Center 12/1/2010! w00t!!11!!
2nd Burgandy Olfactory Center 12/6/2011! w00t!!11!!

H2ORip


quality posts: 1 Private Messages H2ORip
Re: Awkward Turtle

The fanny pack and glasses made a pretty big difference to me. Turtle on back = meh, but the fanny pack made me laugh and definitely filled the awkward category.
Is it the highest quality or most imaginative piece on here? Nope, but its pretty well executed and still got my vote.
Having said that, most of the pieces i tend to vote for don't end up printing (which my wallet is thankful for), and about 2/3 of his designs are very 'meh' for me.

Sadly for all of your idealists, what sells is NOT always what is technically the 'best' or 'most creative'. This guy may be the 'apple' of shirt.woot, he sells a ton of stuff even though the products aren't superior....drawing ire because of it. (I don't own any apple products for the record).

As for the 'One more gargleblaster there's a bunch of turtle on back shirts out there' - most of the designs people linked looked a LOT like each other, but very few had anything in common with this design aside from a general theme. The style and execution were completely different. I'm not trying to defend the guy here, but you can put down the pitch forks here.

I'm surprised nobody has started submitting stuff in a similar style.

SunnyLea0


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SunnyLea0
renegadetim wrote:Honestly, you just don't get it. I'm not an artist, never will be. I buy shirts and this has gotten incredibly old.

He doesn't submit designs in derbies where he can't use certain gimmicks and has to come up with something new. Woot creates rules in derbies specifically so he won't bring back old used characters. He was missing from the last two derbies, wonder why? Couldn't use a cute turtle/animal design.

And frankly, why would anyone like to have a collection of 20 shirts with this same turtle on it? And what is the draw in this particular shirt at all? I mean, compared to all this turtle's other shirts this one simply makes no sense whatsoever.

Do people REALLY like cute cartoon turtles THAT much?


Yay!

Thank you!

I'm no artist and I know it. I don't have a dog in this fight except as someone who admires art, and comes here every week to see what art the derby folk have produced for me.

I'm not jealous. I'm not QQ, QQ, QQ. I'm just tired of it.

profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
H2ORip wrote:As for the 'One more gargleblaster there's a bunch of turtle on back shirts out there' - most of the designs people linked looked a LOT like each other, but very few had anything in common with this design aside from a general theme. The style and execution were completely different. I'm not trying to defend the guy here, but you can put down the pitch forks here.

If the shirt is too similar to a previously-existing shirt, then it ought to be rejected. That's why the "Similar Shirts Exist" ruling is there on entries like this and this and this.

Looking at the cited turtle examples, this shirt is FAR too similar to many others on the market, and it should be rejected summarily. Considering it's Tuesday and it's still in the fog, I'm gonna say that a rejection is highly unlikely at this point. But you know what? If it prints, I hope the artists/sellers of those other shirts come down hard on Woot legally to do something about it. Considering this has already happened with Ramy's girlfriend, it'd be fitting.

bluejester


quality posts: 558 Private Messages bluejester
Re: Awkward Turtle


For me there are too many issues with this shirt to vote for it. I did read a lot of the arguing that was done in this thread over this shirt and I like draxxx had put it best.

That said, I'll give my little too cents as a person who is rapidly becoming a former ramby fan.

Largely, I am disappointed lately with the designs he has put out. Not so much just because they are cutesy and cute does get old after a while to me, but because they seem lazily conceived and lately, lazily rendered as well. I don't mind the cute stuff when it happens. I've made a number of purchases from this site that were gifts for people and voted for designs because they were cute.
However, when I buy something that is cutesy for my little sisters, I want it to be quality as well.

When artists like Bassanimation, Walmazan, or Dianasprinkle have drawn something that is cute (not that they always do, but when they do) I can tell that they put effort into the actual drawing itself. They don't always enter something the same day, within hours of the derby opening. Most times I assume that is because they want to polish their work up from rough draft quality. They have a distinctive style, and it shows when they submit. I'm guessing that most of us here (at least those who have been here even a short while) can spot which artist has done what. Like it or not, Ramyb has a certain button-eyed style that we all recognize when we see the thumbnail.

Yet, since the "turtle tree" (can't recall the name off the bat) it seems like he's been allowing simple mistakes to go through and not give a darn. I know, I know. There is the perspective/realism stuff that people talk about and the fact that he uses the same layout and shirt placement. This is just my opinion, but sometimes that doesn't matter to the average voter.

What does matter (again, obviously just my opinion), and should matter is when the submissions go from polished (at least from just a quick glance) to glaring errors. This turtle is the worst offender of the recent crop of Ramyb shirts and here is why I think so (again, my opinion is what it is. I in no way claim that this particular facet is gospel truth or puts me on some so-called "higher level" of thinking than the average voter.)

-I don't think that this design is stolen, however I do think that it is just lazy in conception. Isn't there a general tip for new designers out there not to do the first thing that comes to mind? that is what this smacks of. "Tilted turtle" seems an easy idea to me, just like during the star derby I expected to see, and did see, many cute little stars holding guns. Not to say that those designs were bad, just that it might have been an easier thing to run with. (I voted for some of them, but was dubious as to their chances)

-The drawing looks like a sketch painted in photo shop. The eyeballs are cockeyed, I hate the fact that the turtle has, like many of the drawings lately, only one brow. The mouth looks like it is missing a connecting line as well. The legs of the turtle look just plain bad, like I, or any one else, could do them on a whim. Finally, that splotch near the eye, which is obviously an error. I wouldn't buy it if I were told that it is a tear because it is obviously a lousy paint job.

I guess that the laziness that is represented here is what really gets me. I know that there are loyal fan bases, which is normally fine by me--but even his fan base shouldn't be defending this one. It is badly done top to bottom.

Sorry Ramyb, but I did use to like some of your stuff. I can understand ignoring the hateful garbage that some snakey people spew out. But when you ignore real, valid criticism as well...you've lost me as a voter and defender.

frik


quality posts: 1 Private Messages frik
Re: Awkward Turtle


Ahhhhh, that's a turtle. just got done reading the thread and finally figured it out.

No. Yes.

adanabbett


quality posts: 0 Private Messages adanabbett
Re: Awkward Turtle

So there's the usual quibbles with the artist, but what I want to know: what's the deal with the fanny pack and glasses?

The turtle couldn't walk with that fanny pack - it hangs out further than the legs. He'd be a high-centered, teeter-tottering turtle if he tried. And if he has more stuff than can fit in his house, I think it would have been funnier if the little guy was pulling a turtle-shell trailer, anyway.

I can't make the glasses make sense at all. They don't seem to add to the story and they don't work as a punchline. I guess I just don't get it.

OhBeefBiscuits


quality posts: 0 Private Messages OhBeefBiscuits
Johndis5 wrote:Just..... ugh... just stop.


This is truth.

I am filled with hate.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: Awkward Turtle


I am going to address a few issues that have been brought up as it is only fair to do so. I am going to be a succinct as possible.

1) Most of us don't know RamyB at all and have no personal feelings outside of this site against him.
2) No one is jealous of his success. Prove it? Most artists here are praised and we want them to succeed because we want to buy their stuff!
3) We want to click because we realize that there is $1,000 plus more at stake here.
4) The main problem most of us have is when a submitter (any submitter!) uses images or ideas that have already been done. The reason that this thread is so long is because he has done it soooo many times. I don't like 95% of the designs on this site, but if the design is an original idea or an original take on a common idea, GREAT! This shirt, for example, is neither.
5) I think that the fact that these threads end up in ad hominem attacks (I am guilty of this as well) is frustrating. We should be able to have a civil discourse about a shirt and its merit to print or not. Hence, this response to some of the comments that have been made, not in support of this shirt but against those of us who don't think it deserves to print.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
kylemittskus wrote:I am going to address a few issues that have been brought up as it is only fair to do so. I am going to be a succinct as possible.

1) Most of us don't know RamyB at all and have no personal feelings outside of this site against him.
2) No one is jealous of his success. Prove it? Most artists here are praised and we want them to succeed because we want to buy their stuff!
3) We want to click because we realize that there is $1,000 plus more at stake here.
4) The main problem most of us have is when a submitter (any submitter!) uses images or ideas that have already been done. The reason that this thread is so long is because he has done it soooo many times. I don't like 95% of the designs on this site, but if the design is an original idea or an original take on a common idea, GREAT! This shirt, for example, is neither.
5) I think that the fact that these threads end up in ad hominem attacks (I am guilty of this as well) is frustrating. We should be able to have a civil discourse about a shirt and its merit to print or not. Hence, this response to some of the comments that have been made, not in support of this shirt but against those of us who don't think it deserves to print.


Well said.

coolestghoul


quality posts: 0 Private Messages coolestghoul

My favorite part about woot is that for every shirt printed that I don't like, there are still 6 other days in the week.

I don't like this shirt. But I don't like a lot of shirts either. Thankfully, there are 365 days this year (366 next year FTW).

Anyhow, 'Tofu' is totally going to kick this contest's butt. And I'm dropping $15 on that bad-boy the minute it does.

alfbo


quality posts: 12 Private Messages alfbo
coolestghoul wrote:My favorite part about woot is that for every shirt printed that I don't like, there are still 6 other days in the week.

I don't like this shirt. But I don't like a lot of shirts either. Thankfully, there are 365 days this year (366 next year FTW).

Anyhow, 'Tofu' is totally going to kick this contest's butt. And I'm dropping $15 on that bad-boy the minute it does.


It's only $10 the first day of sale. Send me the other $5 for saving you some dough!

Imposter Pete was Unprepared for the Almost Human Nightmare Cuckoo Clock. The Walrus and Eggmen were the Height of Envy at the Monkey Bar. See the DJ spinning records on a Flora Phonograph while simultaneously playing Rock, Paper, Scissorhold.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy
kylemittskus wrote:[succinct, well pointed post]

OMGAWWWWL then don't vote for it! Also, you're obviously jealous of his success.

There, now that that's out of the way, nobody else has to say it.

Well put, Kyle.

What really bothers me about this is that it hasn't been rejectionatored despite explicit examples that similar shirts exist. Shirts are knocked out for this on a regular basis. Ramy's cliche entries? Nope.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
palookaboy wrote:OMGAWWWWL then don't vote for it! Also, you're obviously jealous of his success.

There, now that that's out of the way, nobody else has to say it.

Well put, Kyle.

What really bothers me about this is that it hasn't been rejectionatored despite explicit examples that similar shirts exist. Shirts are knocked out for this on a regular basis. Ramy's cliche entries? Nope.


This is really the crux of the insult.

There is plenty that can be said about why pure democracies don't work. Every time someone casts a vote that is uneducated and makes a huge difference, even if that vote is for something positive, it proves where it is broken. This is true of all things. And in the world of shirts THIS COMPETITION IS A HUGE ISSUE. There is only one major site that has remotely similar sales and a larger base payout. There is $1000 on the line. If you make $1000 during a single work week, you have a right to laugh at how important that is. No one else does. This is a big deal for the mostly amateur designers who enter here. Ramy is amateur in his overall oeuvre, not just his professional artistic standing, but most of the most popular users here are not professional artists either, and those who ARE pro are regularly engaged in totally different artistic pursuits, where you wouldn't ever know the shirt art from the "pro" art. And when this is a big deal, you should be voting with that deal in mind. There is a lot that needs to go into a print, and quality should ALWAYS be tantamount. You can analyze quality without liking something... I don't think I own any of the shirts I've believed to be the absolute best done here. I own many great ones, but the truly great pieces that printed are not always my taste. And yet, I have cheered those pieces, because they are of an undeniable merit. This only has "popularity". So does the Biebs. He is not a musician any more than Ramy is an artist. If in 2010, a poll of influential musicians had come out and people had voted bieber #1, over the Beatles, let's say, or Michael Jackson, or Nirvana, or anyone of similar stature for song quality and relevance, they would never have published it, or would have mocked the choice and the people who chose it. People are faulty, and some honors should not be bestowed by the masses alone. Especially when there is money involved. Especially when the recipient has strong ties to frauds involving fake internet handles and falsified names increasing exposure in real life as well. These are facts.

But even if we pretend that democracy ISNT broken by necessity, and that woot doesn't prove it in these situations, there is the BASIC inequality. This has similar shirts exist. Many of them. And is not rejected. And yet great designs are rejected for slightly imperfect shades of the tee in the mock-up. There are strong, well-spoken and well-evidenced opinions that can be offered as to why his work is inferior, which are only ever countered with "UR JELLIS I LIKE THIS SO I VOTE JUST DONT VOTE BECUZ I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY VOTES MEAN SOMETHING QQ WHATEVER THAT MEANS." But at the end of the day, what happens to him more than anyone is that a design will exist which is CLEARLY in violation of BASIC rules anyone else would get the axe for, and yet no one dodges these basic bullets more than he does. And no one at woot has the cojones to respond to it. There needs to be a dialog if woot is going to make these choices out of nowhere. It needs to be continually open so we know all of what they are thinking, and know they are listening to our responses and responding back. There cannot be such huge discrepancies of enforcement of rules that have so little room for interpretation. And that should be an offense anyone can understand. If they do not, they have no right to argue, because that is no longer opinion. There are facts here. And those facts are being ignored when things like this are ignored.

bluejester


quality posts: 558 Private Messages bluejester
AdderXYU wrote:This is really the crux of the insult.

There is plenty that can be said about why pure democracies don't work. Every time someone casts a vote that is uneducated and makes a huge difference, even if that vote is for something positive, it proves where it is broken. This is true of all things. And in the world of shirts THIS COMPETITION IS A HUGE ISSUE. There is only one major site that has remotely similar sales and a larger base payout. There is $1000 on the line. If you make $1000 during a single work week, you have a right to laugh at how important that is. No one else does. This is a big deal for the mostly amateur designers who enter here. Ramy is amateur in his overall oeuvre, not just his professional artistic standing, but most of the most popular users here are not professional artists either, and those who ARE pro are regularly engaged in totally different artistic pursuits, where you wouldn't ever know the shirt art from the "pro" art. And when this is a big deal, you should be voting with that deal in mind. There is a lot that needs to go into a print, and quality should ALWAYS be tantamount These are facts.


I believe that you meant to say paramount

Also, other people have stated more eloquently, more kindly, and more succintly than you have the problems with this shirt.

You want Ramyb to stop posting stuff here or to try harder? Then stop insulting every other person on this website who doesn't agree exactly with your tastes. Yes, this design has numerous flaws. Yes, it does show laziness in both artistry and concept. But know this, you will never come across as more than a common internet troll, despite your essay length verbosity, if you don't tone down your rhetoric and vitriol towards not just Ramyb, but towards your fellow human beings.

Yourkiddingright


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Yourkiddingright
Re: Awkward Turtle


I know links were posted before for shirts but here's some more evidence

Very similar body and head shape, although with more detail skill and feeling of course.


I really like this one since it appears to be licensed goods Yeah lawsuit!


More shirts


I'll post more as I find them. If this isn't enough evidence I don't know what it will take.

Assassin15


quality posts: 161 Private Messages Assassin15
kylemittskus wrote:I am going to address a few issues that have been brought up as it is only fair to do so. I am going to be a succinct as possible.

1) Most of us don't know RamyB at all and have no personal feelings outside of this site against him.
2) No one is jealous of his success. Prove it? Most artists here are praised and we want them to succeed because we want to buy their stuff!
3) We want to click because we realize that there is $1,000 plus more at stake here.
4) The main problem most of us have is when a submitter (any submitter!) uses images or ideas that have already been done. The reason that this thread is so long is because he has done it soooo many times. I don't like 95% of the designs on this site, but if the design is an original idea or an original take on a common idea, GREAT! This shirt, for example, is neither.
5) I think that the fact that these threads end up in ad hominem attacks (I am guilty of this as well) is frustrating. We should be able to have a civil discourse about a shirt and its merit to print or not. Hence, this response to some of the comments that have been made, not in support of this shirt but against those of us who don't think it deserves to print.


Did someone hack your account? Because does NOT sound like anything you've said before.

I agree with every word^

PULL UP YOUR SKIRT, WE'RE ON A MISSION/
WE NEED A HERO, NOT A POLITICIAN - "Panhammer" by Phinehas

musicshark32


quality posts: 3 Private Messages musicshark32
Johndis5 wrote:http://www.cafepress.com/doonidesigns.333498386

http://www.etsy.com/listing/22013708/upsidedown-turtle-t-shirt-sizes-12mo-5t

http://www.redbubble.com/people/rajee/t-shirts/5525208-1-upside-down-turtle

http://www.zazzle.com/upside_down_tshirt-235188208546031433

edit: http://www.wearyourstory.com/awkward-turtle.html


isn't this shirt just a reference to the awkward turtle?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=awkward%20turtle

there's no copyright infringement here. it's just a pop culture reference. but i do agree that this design should be rejected for the reason that "similar shirts exist".

that being said, rush job or not, this design is still probably the best out of all of those.

  • Random Crap - 11

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy
musicshark32 wrote:that being said, rush job or not, this design is still probably the best out of all of those.


I don't even know about that. It's got the most polish, but it's also got dead eyes and a bizarre expression.

zekecatz


quality posts: 201 Private Messages zekecatz
palookaboy wrote:I don't even know about that. It's got the most polish, but it's also got dead eyes and a bizarre expression.


Would that be Turtle Wax polish?

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
bluejester wrote:I believe that you meant to say paramount

Also, other people have stated more eloquently, more kindly, and more succintly than you have the problems with this shirt.

You want Ramyb to stop posting stuff here or to try harder? Then stop insulting every other person on this website who doesn't agree exactly with your tastes. Yes, this design has numerous flaws. Yes, it does show laziness in both artistry and concept. But know this, you will never come across as more than a common internet troll, despite your essay length verbosity, if you don't tone down your rhetoric and vitriol towards not just Ramyb, but towards your fellow human beings.


Tantamount implies that nothing should be higher, as well. You can have other beliefs which come up to and meet quality, but that should never supersede. Quality can be paramount, and I feel that is a sound way to judge, but it should always be at least as important as any other justification for voting. There is no excuse for anything else. No one should be voting for designs which do not have quality equal to any other positive element. Ideally, quality should also be the top element.

Nothing I do will get rid of Ramy. That needs to be woot's job. But if you cannot grasp how that is wrong, I have nothing to say to you. If people are wrong, and if people are wrong in ways that no educated person can justify, they do not deserve respect. If you believe the world is flat, I am not going to coddle you, and this is no different. There are facts at play, and people ARE WRONG. It is not my opinion. I have stated over and over again all the myriad reasons. And what it all boils down to is simply this: there is no excuse for Ramy to be here. Factual. Based on huge evidence. Irrefutable evidence. And by irrefutable, I mean like how climate change is irrefutable: there's always going to be someone who insists otherwise, but the evidence is so overwhelmingly against them that they should be ashamed.

You note something very important: problems with this shirt. But this shirt is not the problem. It is one more symptom. This shirt should be rejected, and people have noted this. But if it doesn't, they'll move on. And that is why nothing changes. That is why we've gotten to the point of this. I am no less eloquent, but far more angry, because I care about this stopping. Not rejecting this shirt so much as rejecting the sort of mediocrity and laxness and all-around ignoring of rules that allows this. Rejecting the culture of "if it makes money, it is good" and the culture of "I know it's lazy and I don't care." If this shirt gets rejected, and it should, it is not a victory. It starts again next week. the same disrespect for theme, the same disrespect for quality, the same disrespect for originality.

That is why I respect those who deserve it and disrespect those who do not (and if you haven't seen both, and often to the same person, you have had intentional blinders on). If you are a parent, you don't not scold your kid when they're wrong, and that is someone you're supposed to care about deeply. Strangers, not so much. This is a huge cultural flaw, and we as a culture need to fight it. Glorifying and respecting a culture of artistic mediocrity leads to accepting all mediocrity. It leads to us seeing a problem and saying "that's how it is" instead of fixing it. It leads to people who consider education elitist, because education opens our minds and fosters our creative endeavors. It leads to a death of culture: art has always relied on money, but never before has the money trumped the actual art to such a degree.

Trolls exist to stir the pot. I exist because the world deserves more, and if it cannot be brought about in a small community, it is futile. I refuse to believe that. It's very simple to understand. The majority of artists here understand what I am here for. You do not. And it is clear why. You see this as one design, and I see this one design as one more reason there needs to be HUGE reform here, because it's one example in hundreds, for this user alone, let alone the derby at large, let alone in his "artistic career" in general. There is far more at stake here. You don't care about that bigger picture. You care about this, maybe, but you are ignoring what it means, and what needs to be done to prevent it from happening again. You may never understand that, and it is not my job to change your mind or anyone's. That is not how change works. It requires the boldness to do what is right, even at the risk of offending people who will never understand, for the sake of producing a generation that can say "I can't believe we ever really believed that people did that." Will our society ever care about woot in 50 years? I doubt it'll even still exist by the time I'm dead. But again, this is about the bigger picture. If we can fix it at woot, we can make strides to fix it throughout the arts, and if we can do that, we can begin chipping away at the culture of mediocrity and greed inherent in our modern world. In our current economy, it is insulting to everyone to allow people to make scads of money with no work involved.

frik


quality posts: 1 Private Messages frik
Re: Awkward Turtle


No. Yes.

joemail11


quality posts: 34 Private Messages joemail11

In response to Adder:

I will not dispute the quality of this design, but your main fault is the assumption that shirt designs must be masterpieces. My theory proposes that, at times, mediocrity is preferable over perfection.

To begin with an example: While at home, I regularly grace my ears with the sound of classical (or more specifically, Romantic) music. Classical music is difficult to match in its intricacy, depth, and overall quality of composition. However, when I am in my car, I find myself listening to ZZ Top, which hardly compares to the complexity of classical music, yet, it fits the situation better than a masterpiece of music which requires careful listening to fully enjoy.

One can clearly see the direction I am taking this. Much like my preference of ZZ Top in my car, I WANT my shirts to be mediocre, consisting of a cheesy picture and a cheap laugh. A masterpiece on a T-shirt is completely out of place, as classical music is out of place while driving down the road.

So, while your analysis of the quality of shirt art is correct, your basic assumption that shirts need a beautiful design is misplaced.

swammi1203


quality posts: 0 Private Messages swammi1203

While Adder may not be the most cordial of commentators, he doesn't fail to make good points. For that, he is a valuable contributer, and his knowledge of past derbies is important in putting events in perspective.

Eventually, I hope that the market will become saturated with this level of work to the point that wooters are no longer interested. However, until that time comes the artistic community here have limited power against the majority vote. We can only encourage Ramy to raise his level of work instead of copping out week after week in order to appeal to buyers. He is capable of so much more than his work let's on. In every aspect of art, the quality of work diminishes immediately once the artist begins to pander to the audience. So, Ramy, I urge you to have the courage to break free of the constraints of demand. You have the power to drive culture here, you need only to take the reigns.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
musicshark32 wrote:isn't this shirt just a reference to the awkward turtle?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=awkward%20turtle

there's no copyright infringement here. it's just a pop culture reference. but i do agree that this design should be rejected for the reason that "similar shirts exist".

that being said, rush job or not, this design is still probably the best out of all of those.


There is certainly no copyright since it is just a take on the "Awkward Turtle." It should be rejected based on the "Similar Shirts Exist" rule as there have been now 15ish similar shirts. No matter how good this shirt is compared to the others, the rules should be followed. And when not, enforced.

About Adder: Yes, he's caustic. That doesn't change the fact that he is right. You may not like the delivery system of a message, but you can't disregard the message because you didn't like the words, tones, etc. used.

Edit: THIS!
[quote postid="4341784" user="swammi1203"]While Adder may not be the most cordial of commentators, he doesn't fail to make good points. For that, he is a valuable contributer, and his knowledge of past derbies is important in putting events in perspective.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

jxchen


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jxchen
kylemittskus wrote:you can't disregard the message because you didn't like the words, tones, etc. used.


Anyone is free to disregard any message they want, regardless of tone.

One is far more likely to deliver a trustworthy message if the tone is not abusive and disparaging.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
jxchen wrote:Anyone is free to disregard any message they want, regardless of tone.

One is far more likely to deliver a trustworthy message if the tone is not abusive and disparaging.


Literal battle? Of course you can, but if your logic is "the message delivery sucks, therefore the message is erroneous," then your logic is flawed.

Further, your assumption that a politely delivered message is more trustworthy, i.e.: more accurate, is absurd. The delivery system has nothing to do with the inherent message. You may be turned off by one or the other, but that fact does not change the message being delivered.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

swammi1203


quality posts: 0 Private Messages swammi1203
jxchen wrote:Anyone is free to disregard any message they want, regardless of tone.

One is far more likely to deliver a trustworthy message if the tone is not abusive and disparaging.


On the contrary, pure politeness does not a trustworthy message make. Trustworthiness doesn't even have much merit in this debate; persuasiveness has much more merit. To be persuasive, more fire and passion is needed. Niceties are often not particularly convincing.

That's not to say that courtesy has no place, there is a limit. However, Kyle is only partially correct in saying that "The delivery system has nothing to do with the inherent message." The delivery system may have nothing to do with the inherent message, but it has everything to do with how that message is perceived and received, which is equally as important.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
jxchen wrote:Anyone is free to disregard any message they want, regardless of tone.

One is far more likely to deliver a trustworthy message if the tone is not abusive and disparaging.


Yes. Flatterers are known for their total trustworthiness. Throughout history, it has been sycophants who are known to be straight shooters. The language of poetry is beautiful in how clearly it elucidates truth, without masking, without leading astray.

In other words, have you heard of history?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
swammi1203 wrote:YoThat's not to say that courtesy has no place, there is a limit. However, Kyle is only partially correct in saying that "The delivery system has nothing to do with the inherent message." The delivery system may have nothing to do with the inherent message, but it has everything to do with how that message is perceived and received, which is equally as important.


One cannot control how another receives a message. I realize that I am in the minority here, but political correctness, politeness, etc. are all subjective terms and have no place in logical discussion, IMO. I suppose we should not start an ideological debate here, though. Do you drink wine?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

swammi1203


quality posts: 0 Private Messages swammi1203
kylemittskus wrote:One cannot control how another receives a message. I realize that I am in the minority here, but political correctness, politeness, etc. are all subjective terms and have no place in logical discussion, IMO. I suppose we should not start an ideological debate here, though. Do you drink wine?


The tone of voice has no impact on a speech and how the audience views both the content of the speech and the speaker? The same thing applies to a forum such as this, except instead of tone of speech, it's tone of written word.

But yes, we are getting off topic, however much I enjoy a good ideological debate.

I try to enjoy some of the finer things in life, wine included. Naturally, if you have a particular recommendation for wine, especially as a component of a meal, I would be interested in hearing it.

EDIT: Preferably in a pm, considering the topic at hand.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
joemail11 wrote:In response to Adder:

I will not dispute the quality of this design, but your main fault is the assumption that shirt designs must be masterpieces. My theory proposes that, at times, mediocrity is preferable over perfection.

To begin with an example: While at home, I regularly grace my ears with the sound of classical (or more specifically, Romantic) music. Classical music is difficult to match in its intricacy, depth, and overall quality of composition. However, when I am in my car, I find myself listening to ZZ Top, which hardly compares to the complexity of classical music, yet, it fits the situation better than a masterpiece of music which requires careful listening to fully enjoy.

One can clearly see the direction I am taking this. Much like my preference of ZZ Top in my car, I WANT my shirts to be mediocre, consisting of a cheesy picture and a cheap laugh. A masterpiece on a T-shirt is completely out of place, as classical music is out of place while driving down the road.

So, while your analysis of the quality of shirt art is correct, your basic assumption that shirts need a beautiful design is misplaced.


Your presumption, however, is that I would not consider ZZ Top to have artistic significance. They are incredibly in synch with each other musically, are talented musicians in their own right, and are unmistakable from anyone else. "Tush" may not have the lyrical or musical depth of "Stairway to Heaven," let alone Beethoven's 5th, but there is still a passion for the art there. Nirvana is relevant not for their musicianship, which was sloppy at best, but for songcraft and passion. Kurt articulated an entire subculture as eloquently as possible while still being honest. Punk exists on the simplest of chords, yet the musical importance of the Clash is far more than many people who worked by Classical standards. How many classical composers do you know v. how many modern musicians? You'd better believe there are millions who are lost to time for pure suckitude. Want proof, just go through your parents' vinyl collection. I guarantee there's at least one album you'll say "who?" to. Obscurity doesn't preclude talent, obviously, but in many cases, there's a reason you don't know who Chris Ducey is. He was totally disposable, and damn you mom for making me know that.

In 30 years, so too will the hacks here be. But in the here and now, their temporary success is strangling those people who may become the next Mozart, or may become the next Flaming Lips instead, existing for years on relatively strong fan support and relatively negligible mainstream exposure. But for every true passionate creative mind which sticks around, tens or hundreds will give up because they're not willing to stoop so low to gain acceptance, and need to make money somehow, or else they WILL stoop that low and throw away everything creative about them, selling their soul for the almighty dollar. Not every artistic mind has the luxury to just wait for their break, and that is the true waste of culture.

So the argument is not "Classical vs. ZZ Top." It is, perhaps, Moonlight Sonata vs. Cheap Sunglasses (sorry ZZ, you lose hard) or else Etude 344b in A-minor vs. Gimme All Your Lovin' (which gives a damn fair shot to the bearded men depending on which obscure composition from which composer we are looking at). But it's more Lady Gaga vs. Katy Perry. You cannot argue for Katy Perry's superiority musically without resorting to non-musical things (better ass? fair call) or untrue things (better voice? you've heard them both sing, right?) And as such, someone with absolutely no capacity for undoctored vocals has no right to make money off their voice, right?

And that is the argument. While I will defend to the death the idea that "high art" has no place it does not belong, I know not all "high art" is meant for a shirt. But I would say not ANY low art is. You can cruise down the street blasting Sharp Dressed Man, and that's fine. But you shouldn't cruise down the street blasting the Macarena. You can read a good thriller instead of Shakespeare, but you shouldn't be reading Twilight. There is a huge difference between lesser work and truly mediocre to awful work, and there are ways to measure without opinion. You yourself note that you KNOW your southern rock preferences are not the height of composition. That says VOLUMES about where you are compared to the average woot voter. But I would like to think that if the Grammys came up, and a truly groundbreaking album lost against an enjoyable, yet ultimately standard ZZ album, you would feel some twinge of how robbed the other album was, while if the groundbreaking one won, you wouldn't feel anger that the one you preferred didn't. I vote in these derbies weekly if I can. I have liked some of what has printed, and I have bought fewer shirts than I've liked. I have lauded and disdained "artsy" and "simple" shirts alike. Quality is not about elitism and art is not about museums. It's about making sure the best man or woman wins. No one is advocating for any one thing to be severed from the derby except for this: uncreative, unethical, and flat out miserably done work. Anyone who would defend such from ejection is not stating their preference for anything but the lowest of the low.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
Re: Awkward Turtle


Everyone's in an uproar about similar shirts exist, which is a valid concern, but I think there's been a greater oversight as to why this should be rejected. Ramy is using 7 colors not 6. Let me count them for you.

1. Bright Green
2. Black
3. White
4. Light Tan
5. Dark Tan/Brown
6. Dark Grey
7. Light Grey

He's easily showing (with a handy blowup to boot) that the light grey is indeed it's own color and not a lined halftone of the dark grey (same with the tan and brown). You have to reject this due to too many colors. The other arguments have merit, but this is definitive. It came about from his haste to get the design up and while I feel for him about getting nixed on a technicality, I and many other artists on Woot have experienced rejects for similar small issues. Even if his sep'd file is correct, then he still should be rejected on the basis of comp not matching final art. Again I feel for you but the rules are the rules.

-------
Edit: Annnnd it's rejected

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
tjost wrote:-------
Edit: Annnnd it's rejected


A) Fantastic catch!

B) The fact that he submitted a design with 7 colors absolutely boggles my mind. He has been submitting designs for a long while and he knows the rules. His following them or not is a different story. So either a) he made a mistake or b) he figured he could get away with it.

C) FAIL on the part of the rejectionator whose job it is to catch such things. Give TJost a damn bonus!

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

specsmachine


quality posts: 31 Private Messages specsmachine
tjost wrote:Everyone's in an uproar about similar shirts exist, which is a valid concern, but I think there's been a greater oversight as to why this should be rejected. Ramy is using 7 colors not 6.


Couldn't see the forest for the trees.

joemail11


quality posts: 34 Private Messages joemail11

Response to Adder's response to me:

Well put.

And yes, about 80-90% of classical music (covering Baroque onwards; I feel no need to subdivide the genre) is ignorable or, in fact, bad.

And I am so out of touch with contemporary music, I may just know more classical composers than bands. Or maybe not, I don't wish to tally.

Finally, I appreciate your comments every week (for the very few weeks I've been here), whether they are unsavory to me or not.

Concluding words on this shirt: Most unexpected rejection. I don't know if I'll ever see something quite like this again.

npromero


quality posts: 0 Private Messages npromero
tjost wrote:Everyone's in an uproar about similar shirts exist, which is a valid concern, but I think there's been a greater oversight as to why this should be rejected. Ramy is using 7 colors not 6. Let me count them for you.

1. Bright Green
2. Black
3. White
4. Light Tan
5. Dark Tan/Brown
6. Dark Grey
7. Light Grey

He's easily showing (with a handy blowup to boot) that the light grey is indeed it's own color and not a lined halftone of the dark grey (same with the tan and brown). You have to reject this due to too many colors. The other arguments have merit, but this is definitive. It came about from his haste to get the design up and while I feel for him about getting nixed on a technicality, I and many other artists on Woot have experienced rejects for similar small issues. Even if his sep'd file is correct, then he still should be rejected on the basis of comp not matching final art. Again I feel for you but the rules are the rules.

-------
Edit: Annnnd it's rejected


LOL, that was awesome in more ways that I can count.
No, wait, yes i can... about 7 of them



Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
kylemittskus wrote:A) Fantastic catch!

B) The fact that he submitted a design with 7 colors absolutely boggles my mind. He has been submitting designs for a long while and he knows the rules. His following them or not is a different story. So either a) he made a mistake or b) he figured he could get away with it.

C) FAIL on the part of the rejectionator whose job it is to catch such things. Give TJost a damn bonus!


Well, now he can add the appropriate halftones, which should satisfy woot's "significant changes" rule, and cram it into next week's derby.

lifeiskumquat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lifeiskumquat
Re: Awkward Turtle


Finally rejected...good riddance. =/

Interesting though, I didn't catch that; Great eye tjost. =)

baseballjf14


quality posts: 0 Private Messages baseballjf14
Re: Awkward Turtle


OH MY GOD

so check this out, I decided to see what the fuss was about Ramyb and his designs, so I decided to go to shirt.what and figure this out.

As I was looking through his past entries, to my untrained eye, I was unable to really deduce more than "his style" for his designs.

Then; as any detective show would tell you; I realized I wasn't digging deep enough. So I decided to read the threads under each design....

And what I found may astound you!

I am not gonna run this guy's name into the dirt any more than it should be. It's just not my style, however, the allegations of plagurism, lack of inspiration, and complete disregard for rules does have some merit to it.

It was actually an AdderXYU t-shirt design that helped me connect the dots to another person, "closely tied to" Ramyb, that not only had seemingly the same disdain for rules as he appears to possess. Wild Stuff, including a resubmit that was actually a "paint over" of a previously rejected design, seems to more than indict those 2 (Ramyb, as well as unnamed person I alluded to) in a seemingly unapologetic tandem of rule dodging, idea theifs....

I cannot let my self go on with the "Pitchforking" against these 2, but I'll leave with this....

I cannot and will not allow myself, or my girlfriend for that matter, vote for or buy any of Ramyb's stuff, but on the same note, I will never again smear his name any more than it already has been.

I am initiating a boycott

bluejester


quality posts: 558 Private Messages bluejester
Re: Awkward Turtle


I figured that this would be rejected some time after the noon hour today. That way he couldn't pop out another design because submissions closed. Nice catch Tjost, I half thought the other day that it would be funny if it got rejected for going over the color limit because of that odd dot by the eye. Turns out it was staring us in the face the whole time.

Siax


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Siax
tjost wrote:
-------
Edit: Annnnd it's rejected


The Announcer:"OH MY GOD did you see that catch!"

The Crowd:Cheering loudly!

I cant believe no one (including me) saw that..Great Job!

Cantatus


quality posts: 6 Private Messages Cantatus
swammi1203 wrote:While Adder may not be the most cordial of commentators, he doesn't fail to make good points. For that, he is a valuable contributer, and his knowledge of past derbies is important in putting events in perspective.


It's very much a "flies with honey" type of situation. While Adder may be correct, his delivery does little to engender people to his side. While I started off as a fan of his, seeing his rude delivery over and over, often directed at people who don't deserve it, has made it so I can only agree with him begrudgingly.

It's reverse "shoot the messenger". While I can certainly understand and sympathize with his frustration, it is often not directed in as focused of a fashion as it should be. And while he doesn't realize it, or maybe just doesn't care, it does a lot to cast Ramyb in the sympathetic light, since he smartly sits back and says little. It's why these types of threads are almost always filled with posts expressing confusion at the hostile environment and sympathy for Ramyb, usually from newer members of the community. Convincing people you are right isn't just about message, but about tone as well. Perhaps if that was realized, there wouldn't be people who have the desire to spite vote or, hell, vote based on sympathy.

thelostprophetx0


quality posts: 0 Private Messages thelostprophetx0
Re: Awkward Turtle


I'm new to shirt.woot but I have been following this thread all week. It's been a interesting read and thank God this design got rejected! So funny how it was because of going over 6 colors, although I never understood why it was in the fog to begin with...

kimvy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kimvy
baseballjf14 wrote:OH MY GOD

(SNIP)

I cannot and will not allow myself, or my girlfriend for that matter, vote for or buy any of Ramyb's stuff, but on the same note, I will never again smear his name any more than it already has been.

I am initiating a boycott


You won't *allow* your girlfriend?

Does she realize she has another father?

Yow.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy

Heh. Didn't see that rejection coming.

This should also serve as an example of another simple fact about Ramy: he openly ignores rules. Don't try to tell me he accidentally used 7 colors. He's a veteran of the derbies and he should know better.

Bravo Tjost for the catch.

As far as Adder goes, when I first started reading the derby threads, I took Adder's arguments as troll ramblings. As I returned week after week, and seeing exactly what he had been ranting about, it began to make more sense. He may say it with salt, but he's right every time, not to mention summarily deconstructing every defense of Ramy offered by a) newbies who don't yet get it or b) sycophants.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy
baseballjf14 wrote:I cannot and will not allow myself, or my girlfriend for that matter, vote for or buy any of Ramyb's stuff


Ha! Women voting! Classic.

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf
Re: Awkward Turtle


If you can't get Capone for murder, get him for tax evasion. =P

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
AdderXYU wrote:Tantamount implies that nothing should be higher, as well.


Ooops. Now you lost me. Being a teacher, poor language or word choice hits me where I live. But then defending it when it's pointed out gets my goat. Straight from Mirriam-Webster:
"equivalent in value, significance, or effect"
Synonymns would be 'in effect' or 'virtually'. It refers to equality within a particular comparison. Ther is no implication that notihing else could be higher.
You very definitely wanted 'paramount' (def: supreme).
Shame on you for being so cavalier, so you can march on with your rhetoric.
I usually think better of you.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
palookaboy wrote:Heh. Didn't see that rejection coming.

This should also serve as an example of another simple fact about Ramy: he openly ignores rules. Don't try to tell me he accidentally used 7 colors. He's a veteran of the derbies and he should know better.

Bravo Tjost for the catch.

As far as Adder goes, when I first started reading the derby threads, I took Adder's arguments as troll ramblings. As I returned week after week, and seeing exactly what he had been ranting about, it began to make more sense. He may say it with salt, but he's right every time, not to mention summarily deconstructing every defense of Ramy offered by a) newbies who don't yet get it or b) sycophants.


I'd say more vinegar, or acid, than salt. But you're right, that doesn't preclude the fact that he's usually right, and comments because he CARES**. Kyle, too, get's hammered sometimes for trolling. But he, too, is commenting out of personal intergrity.
**Don't get mushy, Adder, I'm still mad at you for the 'tantamount' thing. ;)

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
AdderXYU wrote:If it will make him money, it is long enough. I give you about an hour before his sycophants (and also the sycophant brigade of the pre-derby thread) comes in to say IF IT MAKES MONEY IT IS OK. I mean hell, it obviously didn't take so little time that people won't vote. Though anyone with a shred of discernment could tell you that it's incredibly poorly composed and staggeringly uncreative.

At least it has a T in it, I guess. Unlike his other piece. Now where is that confounded piece?


I cracks me up that, other than being OT, the apple shirt was a much better sub.

paigeg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages paigeg
Re: Awkward Turtle


One more gargleblaster, I had to laugh when I saw this, it just got me going: In the Wall Street Journal online today.
Kinda kills the 'awkward' a bit.

bassanimation


quality posts: 98 Private Messages bassanimation
paigeg wrote:One more gargleblaster, I had to laugh when I saw this, it just got me going: In the Wall Street Journal online today.
Kinda kills the 'awkward' a bit.


This would have been hard to draw on a turtle.



:P

ikeman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ikeman
Re: Awkward Turtle

this kind of looks exactly like his submission last derby. except with a few more turtles

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