Derby #185: Things That Start with the Letter T
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turtle tutoring

turtle tutoring
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kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
Re: turtle tutoring


I have ZERO idea why my comment was deleted. This is obvious copyright infringement and it should be pointed out as such.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

snarkygal


quality posts: 4 Private Messages snarkygal
Re: turtle tutoring



no no a million times no

manikx66


quality posts: 0 Private Messages manikx66
snarkygal wrote:no no a million times no


pretty sure it shouldnt be considered so. not drawn like the tmnt at all. Also the rat looks more like a mouse to me. and spinter was brown.

kbloomq1


quality posts: 2 Private Messages kbloomq1
Re: turtle tutoring


From the Derby description: "And stay away from pop-cultural personas and properties (like the afore-mentioned Misters) and do something original."

Huh.

aliceinwootland


quality posts: 5 Private Messages aliceinwootland
Re: turtle tutoring


Yeeeeahhhhh this is definitely a pop culture reference.

gelka


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gelka
kylemittskus wrote:I have ZERO idea why my comment was deleted. This is obvious copyright infringement and it should be pointed out as such.


It's obviously not copyright infringement because there are no copyrighted characters used.

DivineAna


quality posts: 9 Private Messages DivineAna
Re: turtle tutoring


These look like butchered imitations of RamyB's turtles.

I'm going to assume this is some kind of woot parody.

bottlehed


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bottlehed
Re: turtle tutoring


I really like this! But are there 7 colors?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
gelka wrote:It's obviously not copyright infringement because there are no copyrighted characters used.


You don't quite understand intellectual property, huh?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

garnetfirebird


quality posts: 0 Private Messages garnetfirebird
kylemittskus wrote:You don't quite understand intellectual property, huh?


And you don't quite understand the intricacies of intellectual property law. There is no infringement here.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
garnetfirebird wrote:And you don't quite understand the intricacies of intellectual property law. There is no infringement here.


Is it an original idea? No. Is there any parody? No. The idea itself is what is copyrighted, along with the specific characters.

I couldn't make a TV show with turtles who each wear a headband, name them other artists' names, and have them trained by a rat named "Plank." That is exactly what this shirt is doing.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

lilaviel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilaviel
Re: turtle tutoring


If it isn't a parody it's drawing attention from the TMNT franchise. That's as close as you can get. But I wouldn't call it copyright infringement.

BUT, I agree that they aren't following Woot's advice on no pop culture references.

garnetfirebird


quality posts: 0 Private Messages garnetfirebird
kylemittskus wrote:Is it an original idea? No. Is there any parody? No. The idea itself is what is copyrighted, along with the specific characters.

I couldn't make a TV show with turtles who each wear a headband, name them other artists' names, and have them trained by a rat named "Plank." That is exactly what this shirt is doing.


There are two major factors that significantly differentiate this shirt and your example:

1. "The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole."

Your example identically copies the major identifying features of the original. This shirt does not.

2. "The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."

Your example would compete directly within the original's market. If this shirt were to print it would be barely a blip on the radar, if even that. No damage caused to the owner.


This work would qualify as parody. Humanoid creatures reduced to their basic animal form but left within the same situation is not an original idea, but unless it is proven otherwise this specific execution is.

Parody does not have to be specifically humorous or ironic or involve some form of commentary. It can be as basic as making something purposefully cuter than its original.

garnetfirebird


quality posts: 0 Private Messages garnetfirebird
kylemittskus wrote:Is it an original idea? No. Is there any parody? No. The idea itself is what is copyrighted, along with the specific characters.


Also, ideas are not protected under copyright law.

DJ9975


quality posts: 4 Private Messages DJ9975
gelka wrote:It's obviously not copyright infringement because there are no copyrighted characters used.


Unless Ramyb has copyrighted those blasted turtles he submits at every opportunity. Actually I think it would be HILARIOUS if he complained that someone was using his idea...

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf

If this is disqualified for copyright infringement then ever single shirt featuring Admiral Ackbar (and "trap" reference) should be disqualified. Not to mention anything referencing LOTR and Balrogs, Cookie Monster, Harry Potter Lightning Bolts and Cloaks, Red Rambo bandanas, etc... Wow. people need to lighten up.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
garnetfirebird wrote:Also, ideas are not protected under copyright law.


You don't really understand what the "intellectual" in intellectual property means, do you?

Intellectual property (IP) is a term referring to a number of distinct types of creations of the mind for which a set of exclusive rights are recognized.
Specifically, one of the "Primary Rights" of IP is Copyright. Any questions, class?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

garnetfirebird


quality posts: 0 Private Messages garnetfirebird
kylemittskus wrote:You don't really understand what the "intellectual" in intellectual property means, do you?


"Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work."

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

Lolyer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lolyer
kylemittskus wrote:Specifically, one of the "Primary Rights" of IP is Copyright. Any questions, class?


Dude, you should quit before the mercy rule gets invoked. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

The subject is overdone and the shirt isn't particularly well made, but copyright infringement it is not.

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
kylemittskus wrote:Specifically, one of the "Primary Rights" of IP is Copyright. Any questions, class?


IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
Re: turtle tutoring


Whatever it is, it's not a particularly clever take on an existing idea.

bcaff510


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bcaff510

i would rock that shirt

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
garnetfirebird wrote:

Parody does not have to be specifically humorous or ironic or involve some form of commentary. It can be as basic as making something purposefully cuter than its original.


er. yes it does. otherwise it's not parody. This has nothing in it but representations of TMNT.

To that end, it should be rejected for being exactly like The Epic Begins, a similar shirt that was printed here and ALSO should have been rejected for IP infringement.

And it's still blatant pop culture with no further input, which woot said "don't do". Arguing this shouldn't be rejected goes against three very basic woot rules. And you really can't say "well woot doesn't care" as an argument. Woot is just as much at fault for not enforcing those rules.

Nightshooter


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Nightshooter
kylemittskus wrote:I have ZERO idea why my comment was deleted. This is obvious copyright infringement and it should be pointed out as such.


With the poorly drawn shells you cant be sure they are turtles.

Lagbert


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Lagbert
Re: turtle tutoring


This design violates intellectual property rights, but it does not violate copyright. Copyright only protects specific implementations of an idea, concept, etc.

This design violates the TMNT trademark. It is an obvious attempt to profit from the TMNT franchise without permission and clearly dilutes* the brand.

*legal term not a comment on the artist technical abilities.

Lolyer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lolyer
Lagbert wrote:This design violates intellectual property rights, but it does not violate copyright. Copyright only protects specific implementations of an idea, concept, etc.

This design violates the TMNT trademark. It is an obvious attempt to profit from the TMNT franchise without permission and clearly dilutes* the brand.

*legal term not a comment on the artist technical abilities.


You seem awfully assertive. Can you share with us the particular trademark that is being diluted? You can search them online here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4008:e9bbpl.1.1

I don't find one similar to this.

Lagbert


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Lagbert
Lolyer wrote:You seem awfully assertive. Can you share with us the particular trademark that is being diluted? You can search them online here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4008:e9bbpl.1.1

I don't find one similar to this.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_505716.html

"But University of Pittsburgh law professor Michael Madison said that people cannot use images if they are likely to be confused with those under trademark."

Lolyer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lolyer
Lagbert wrote:http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_505716.html

"But University of Pittsburgh law professor Michael Madison said that people cannot use images if they are likely to be confused with those under trademark."


The quoted source is probably right, but you're still assuming that there is a registered trademark that is likely to be confused.

I asked if you could find a registered trademark that is being infringed and you point to a news article about a lawsuit. That really isn't an answer. Anyone can file a lawsuit. A lawsuit is just an allegation. In and of itself it isn't evidence of anything.

And that report provides neither the trademark that is allegedly being infringed nor the mural itself, so it's not a good basis for comparison. All that really tells you is that the owner of the TMNT trademark is out there protecting its rights. You could be right, but it's more helpful if you can provide the reason why.

Lagbert


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Lagbert
Lolyer wrote:The quoted source is probably right, but you're still assuming that there is a registered trademark that is likely to be confused.

I think it's fairly safe to assume Nickelodeon has trademarked all of the characters from TMNT, and that this shirt is garnering votes because of the TMNT reference.

I asked if you could find a registered trademark that is being infringed and you point to a news article about a lawsuit.

A trademark does not have to be registered to be enforce. The take away from said article is that if an image is designed to exploit another person's trademark without permission, the exploitation is inviolation of trademark.

You could be right, but it's more helpful if you can provide the reason why.

It could be argued that a single turtle with a mask could be a bank robber or super hero and not a reference to TMNT. The composition consists of 4 turtles with blue, purple, red, and yellow masks, a rat, and Japanese rice paper doors - Ask anyone born in the United States between 1980 and 1992 what this is a picture of, and they will most likely say TMNT.

Personally, I feel de-anthromorphizing the turtles does not constitutes parody and does not significantly remove the illustration from the realm of the trademarked work. Considering Shredder's multiple attempts to de-mutate the turtles during the series, it's highly likely there is published IP of the turtles de-anthromorphized and wearing bananas.

Woots legal staff obviously have the opposite opinion, or this would have been rejected the same time the count in the trucker hat was rejected.

Lolyer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Lolyer
Lagbert wrote:It could be argued that a single turtle with a mask could be a bank robber or super hero and not a reference to TMNT. The composition consists of 4 turtles with blue, purple, red, and yellow masks, a rat, and Japanese rice paper doors - Ask anyone born in the United States between 1980 and 1992 what this is a picture of, and they will most likely say TMNT.

Personally, I feel de-anthromorphizing the turtles does not constitutes parody and does not significantly remove the illustration from the realm of the trademarked work. Considering Shredder's multiple attempts to de-mutate the turtles during the series, it's highly likely there is published IP of the turtles de-anthromorphized and wearing bananas.

Woots legal staff obviously have the opposite opinion, or this would have been rejected the same time the count in the trucker hat was rejected.


eh. this isn't really my field of expertise, but I think you're blurring the edges between copyright and trademark. Trademark infringement just doesn't fit as an argument to me, because trademarks are more about branding (symbols, logos, names, etc.) than the artwork itself. Logo images can be trademarked, but not all images can trademarked. And likewise, it's true that you can have unregistered trademarks, but that doesn't make all works of art unregistered trademarks.

Even if trademark was the issue, I don't think anyone would confuse this drawing with that of the actual/official TMNT product.

But like I said, this isn't my area of expertise. Maybe for my own education I'll open an old textbook and do some reading.

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf
kylemittskus wrote:I have ZERO idea why my comment was deleted. This is obvious copyright infringement and it should be pointed out as such.


Seems people are on the smash'em wagon, so I'll hop on. While I don't think its copyright violation, it has 8 colors.

Light Green
Dark Green
Red
Yellow
Purple
Blue
Gray
Black

MathUhhhSaurus


quality posts: 59 Private Messages MathUhhhSaurus
fuzznarf wrote:Seems people are on the smash'em wagon, so I'll hop on. While I don't think its copyright violation, it has 8 colors.

Light Green
Dark Green
Red
Yellow
Purple
Blue
Gray
Black


nope...I think the "black" is actually the navy background

Examine Bindle of Carrots.
What Bindle of Carrots?

fuzznarf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fuzznarf
MathUhhhSaurus wrote:nope...I think the "black" is actually the navy background


Yeah, I see that now looking at the shirt image. But still, regardless, the limit is 6 colors. and 7 > 6

keemo0102


quality posts: 0 Private Messages keemo0102
Re: turtle tutoring


wow, seems this design caused some controversy!

no matter, just wanted to pop in and mention that there is no purple in the design, i added a close up to my submission to show that it is actually red boxes on a blue band

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
fuzznarf wrote:Yeah, I see that now looking at the shirt image. But still, regardless, the limit is 6 colors. and 7 > 6


he's using halftones, there is no purple only red and blue

EDIT: oh looks like it got answered before me!

i just wanted to add, because i noticed it, everyone is complaining about this breaking copyright rules because its four turtles in masks, but i dont see any turtles in masks, i see four turtles and a rat in headbands. like it or not, you cant get him for copyright, because these turtles arnt ninjas, they just like to work out. ^_^

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