Derby #186: Oddball
+149

the gentlemen

the gentlemen
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Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
Re: the gentlemen


Well, this is my fifth try at this derby business. Let's see what happens.

BurnLovely


quality posts: 0 Private Messages BurnLovely
Re: the gentlemen


I love this! As a girl always trying to 'hang with the boys,' I relate.

dfurman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dfurman
Re: the gentlemen


haha simple and funny.

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
Re: the gentlemen


Thanks guys. I thought it was a pretty funny idea, I'm glad a few people agree.

endangeredomega


quality posts: 37 Private Messages endangeredomega
Re: the gentlemen



I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the transgender community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.

artbreaker


quality posts: 0 Private Messages artbreaker
Re: the gentlemen


I know a guy who served a latte to a person who might be offended by this... really? This site is really starting to annoy me... I am a hairs breadth away from giving it up as a slush pile of regurgitated bad ideas. But gems like this design shine through it all... good job.

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=52144

BootsBoots


quality posts: 36 Private Messages BootsBoots
endangeredomega wrote:I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the transgender community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.


I guess it depends on how you look at it. I see her more as a tomboy. I think, knowing my LGBT friends, a lot of the L's would get a huge kick out of it and I could definitely see them loving it, but it would certainly take on a different connotation to the T's. ;)

Plus, I've never been very girly myself, so I'd personally wear it for the tomboy aspect.


Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
endangeredomega wrote:I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the transgender community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.


This design was not made with the LGBT community in mind. If it was an obvious affront to the LGBT community, I'm sure one of my facebook friends who are a part of that community would have said something when I posted it there.

Maybe it's about the Tom Girl that just wants to hang with the boys.

Maybe it's about that grizzled old lunch lady with the hairy lip from the elementary school cafeteria.

Or maybe it's an off season halloween shirt.

Many things are possible here, but jumping to the conclusion that it's an insult to any person of any walk of life is a bit of a reach. Although, some people are a little overly sensitive and look for things to be offended about.

lorzod


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lorzod
Johndis5 wrote:This design was not made with the LGBT community in mind. If it was an obvious affront to the LGBT community, I'm sure one of my facebook friends who are a part of that community would have said something when I posted it there.

Maybe it's about the Tom Girl that just wants to hang with the boys.

Maybe it's about that grizzled old lunch lady with the hairy lip from the elementary school cafeteria.

Or maybe it's an off season halloween shirt.

Many things are possible here, but jumping to the conclusion that it's an insult to any person of any walk of life is a bit of a reach. Although, some people are a little overly sensitive and look for things to be offended about.


As a member of the LGBT community, I DO find this offensive. I've met met a bunch of Lesbians and Transgendered people that would find this insulting. And no, it has no explanation. It's just a picture, so people can draw from it what they WANT. Most people aren't going to spend an hour thinking about it. They're going to go with their initial response and my initial response is that this is making fun of girls who either want to be boys or boys who want to be girls. That can be viewed in a number of ways, but at the very least it's insanely insensitive to those who are transgendered on both sides. It is insulting for male to female and female to male.

If you don't see that fine, but don't tell other people they don't have a right to be offended OR that there are some ridiculously Sirius GPP and Jatravartid "explanations" as to why it's OK. If they feel offended or find it insulting, they have EVERY RIGHT to because it may not have meant to mean that, but there is nothing but pictures and the pictures speak to a minority community that tends to get ignored.

and BTW, many in the LGB community have issues with our tranny friends and may not accept them, so may not talk about that. The LGBT community is not as cohesive and all accepting as we all like to pretend and believe it is.

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
lorzod wrote: It's just a picture, so people can draw from it what they WANT.



And if people immediately WANT to be offended by a simple design, that is their choice, and quite unfortunate, but it's not my problem.

I was not making a statement with this design. If you, or anybody else, CHOOSE to be offended, that is something you need to rectify from within.

Edit: Since you seem so supportive of everyone's right to be offended by anything thing they want based on their personal perceptions. Where do you stand on a person's right to be offended by anyone belonging to the LGBT community's lifestyle?

Before anything gets misconstrued, I am a proud supporter of the entire LGBT community, so jumping to any conclusion about my design that indicates otherwise is offensive to me.

musocat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages musocat
Johndis5 wrote:And if people immediately WANT to be offended by a simple design, that is their choice, and quite unfortunate, but it's not my problem..


I guess I'm the oddball here, but my first impression was that it's an *inclusive* design. I see four men, one of whom chooses to dress as a woman.

But then again, I'm weird.

:-)


musocat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages musocat

Or perhaps I should put:

:-{)

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
musocat wrote:I guess I'm the oddball here, but my first impression was that it's an *inclusive* design. I see four men, one of whom chooses to dress as a woman.

But then again, I'm weird.

:-)


As stated above, there was no message about gender or sexuality intended, but I like your take on it just fine.

Thanks!

getshighoncocacola


quality posts: 1 Private Messages getshighoncocacola
lorzod wrote:my initial response is that this is making fun of girls who either want to be boys or boys who want to be girls. That can be viewed in a number of ways, but at the very least it's insanely insensitive to those who are transgendered on both sides. It is insulting for male to female and female to male.


Huh. Funny, I didn't see that at all. I can see how you, or anyone, could potentially think that this has to do with transgender people, though I didn't take it that way, but what I don't see is how you feel it's making fun of such people. Even if the designer had intended it to be about such people, which s/he has clearly stated they did not, where in the shirt does it indicate any sort of disdain?

Anyway, fun concept, I like the shirt. I thought about whether I would wear one, because I'm definitely a 'tomboy' who always hangs out with the guys and gets frustrated if I'm not equally accepted with them and I got a kick out of it, thought it was cute and witty. However, then I realised that if I wore it, people who already think that I'm a lesbian because of the tomboyness would just think I was a lesbian even more. So I decided not to. :/ I like the shirt though!
Oh, and before anybody attacks me over that, I have nothing against lesbians or indeed any member of the LGBT community, it just gets a bit tiresome being called anything you're not and having people make Jatravartid jokes every time you spend time with someone of the same sex.
Great design!

"No man is sane who does not know how to be insane on the proper occasions."~Henry Ward Beecher

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
getshighoncocacola wrote: Even if the designer had intended it to be about such people, which s/he has clearly stated they did not, where in the shirt does it indicate any sort of disdain?


I thought about that as well. If this design was geared in that direction, it could easily be sold by a transgendered support site as a pride shirt, not unlike rainbow flag shirts.

All in all, any negativity one might take from this shirt comes from within that person's self. Some people want to see negativity anywhere they can. Some people want to see the positive anywhere they can.

Judging by the comments, the positive people seem to have a slight edge, and for that, I am glad.

endangeredomega


quality posts: 37 Private Messages endangeredomega
Re: the gentlemen



As I stated in my initial comment, I do not believe it was ever the artist's intent to single out and ridicule the transgender community. However, as said comment seems to have sparked a rather contentious debate, I feel the need to explain why I feel the design is potentially very hurtful or insulting to some.

While there seem to be countless ways to 'read' this design, one thing seems relatively clear, and that is that the fourth figure is portrayed as neither 100% male nor 100% female, but somewhere in between.

Among the many interpretations given, two conclusions that could be drawn include that the fourth figure is a transgendered female who is unable to completely "pass" and escape her masculinity, or that the fourth figure is a transgendered male who, in spite of attempts to physical transition, is still being regarded as female.

While some of my own friends might find humour in the design, others may take it as a painful slap in the face. Even if it wasn't what the artist intended, the design *could* be seen as a slight. Personally, I can't support a shirt that runs the risk of alienating and insulting any group of people, particularly people I am close to.

As for the suggestion that this could be worn as a "pride" shirt, I feel that the point must be made that a notable difference between the "T" and "LGB" communities is that a large number of transgender individuals opt to live as "stealth", and are therefore not as out, open, and proud as their LGB brothers and sisters. The last thing many want is to draw any attention to the fact that they are transgender, due to the fact that the community as a whole remains largely misunderstood and disparaged in today's society.

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
endangeredomega wrote:...many good points...


I appreciate your thoughtfulness in your comment. I understand and sympathize with everything you are saying here, even the part about despite my intentions, you can't support what *could* be construed as a slight. I don't get the feeling that you think it should be taken down, just that you wont support it, and that's fine.

There are a lot of people out there that just go around looking for a chance to be offended whenever they can. In my opinion if there isn't a clear message expressing a certain point of view, it is both unhealthy and unfair to immediately jump to the most negative of conclusions. There are people all over the LGBT community that choose to live their lives secretly, just as there are ones that choose to live openly, loudly, and proudly and I believe that there would be zero outrage (apart from homophobes and bigots) if this shirt was offered up on a pro LGBT website.

Anyway, thanks for bringing some level headed explanation to the table. All the best to you!

shinju


quality posts: 0 Private Messages shinju
Re: the gentlemen


When I saw this shirt, I felt like I could relate to it as a woman that mostly hangs out with the guys and feels generally neutral about my own gender. I can't believe the conclusions people are jumping to with this shirt design in order to feel entitled, as some minority community, to being offended. Obviously this shirt isn't for you.

Great design, GMV.

megsck


quality posts: 6 Private Messages megsck
Re: the gentlemen


i would like to wear this to bingo night at hamburger mary's in west hollywood, im going this wednesday!

npromero


quality posts: 0 Private Messages npromero
megsck wrote:i would like to wear this to bingo night at hamburger mary's in west hollywood, im going this wednesday!


I used to liven the SoCal area and that is the most amazing thing I've heard today!
If i could I'd buy you one just for Hamburger Marry's.



Irisprite


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Irisprite
endangeredomega wrote:I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the transgender community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.


I completely agree and had the same reaction upon seeing this shirt. It's quite insensitive toward gender identity and doesn't acknowledge the gender spectrum upon which we all fall, but rather the binary male-female system that our society pushes.

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
Re: the gentlemen


I'm offended that the blue men in the design do not have mustaches, monocles and top hats as a true gentleman would have!!! And its called "The Gentlemen"!?? Poppy c-o-c-k, I say! POPPY C-O-C-K!!! Those aren't gentlemen!! This design IS AN AFFRONT to all the true gentlemen out there, which I ,dear sir, am!
This design spits on the ideals and way of life true gentlemen pursue and hold dear! I call a pox on you, sir! A POX!!! BROUHAHA!!


end scene.

btw, I like the design. very simple and wearable. As to being offensive, meh. You can read into anything you want. That's what's great about art. Its always up to interpretation and cause debate. If this does that, kudos to you. Not saying its high art by any means but if it causes discussion let alone awareness of a lifestyle or cause, I think its a good thing. +1

Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
Re: the gentlemen


Ok, everyone! The jig is officially up. I've spent years upon years sitting high atop my mountain of white privileged money pile that I got from having a cushy job handed to me fresh out of boarding school. It was fulfilling for awhile, but it got boring.

My spiral into discrimination was a slow and dark decent. At first, I would simply toss rocks from my pedestal onto the heads of the lowly minorities that would cower beneath me, but that too, was not enough. I have now unleashed upon the masses this masterpiece of hate. After successfully knocking the transgendered down a few pegs with this design, next week I shall come after another. And I shall do this over and over until my cold, cold heart ticks it's final tick and I will pass my white-hetero fortune unto my immaculate son.


Edit: Muahahahahaha!

odysseyroc


quality posts: 32 Private Messages odysseyroc

I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the Mexican-American community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.

P.S.
How did you know my tía Irene has that exact mustache?





Johndis5


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Johndis5
odysseyroc wrote:I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the Mexican-American community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.

P.S.
How did you know my tía Irene has that exact mustache?


When you stop rubbing your delicious tacos in all of our faces*, I'll stop doing...um... whatever it is I'm doing.


P.S.
Your Aunt doesn't exactly hide it.

*Yes, I totally just said that.

tigtig67


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tigtig67
endangeredomega wrote:I doubt it was the artist's intent, but as someone with ties to the transgender community, I can't help but see this as insensitive at best, and insulting at worst.


Well, as a trans man I don't find it insulting at all. And I would definitely wear it. It is hysterical.

tigtig67


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tigtig67
tigtig67 wrote:Well, as a trans man I don't find it insulting at all. And I would definitely wear it. It is hysterical.


And BTW you all take yourselves way too seriously. Lighten up

Thanks

jacobwratten


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jacobwratten
lorzod wrote:As a member of the LGBT community, I DO find this offensive. I've met met a bunch of Lesbians and Transgendered people that would find this insulting. And no, it has no explanation. It's just a picture, so people can draw from it what they WANT. Most people aren't going to spend an hour thinking about it. They're going to go with their initial response and my initial response is that this is making fun of girls who either want to be boys or boys who want to be girls. That can be viewed in a number of ways, but at the very least it's insanely insensitive to those who are transgendered on both sides. It is insulting for male to female and female to male.

If you don't see that fine, but don't tell other people they don't have a right to be offended OR that there are some ridiculously Sirius GPP and Jatravartid "explanations" as to why it's OK. If they feel offended or find it insulting, they have EVERY RIGHT to because it may not have meant to mean that, but there is nothing but pictures and the pictures speak to a minority community that tends to get ignored.

and BTW, many in the LGB community have issues with our tranny friends and may not accept them, so may not talk about that. The LGBT community is not as cohesive and all accepting as we all like to pretend and believe it is.




i think its funny that someone would come out and say that they are offended by the shirt design and say its not sensitive and then suggest that the group they are defending doesn't even accept its own. its hypocritical of to say respect us but we don't have to respect others. grow and realize that its not about you and not about LGBT either. i have a lot of friends in the LGBT community and i am glad to say they are not as closed minded. in the words of tyler durden you are not special. adding to that it is not everyone elses responsibility to accommodate you. be as you are but let everyone else in this word be as they are and stop picking out differences because thats what makes everything worse!

tigtig67


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tigtig67
jacobwratten wrote:i think its funny that someone would come out and say that they are offended by the shirt design and say its not sensitive and then suggest that the group they are defending doesn't even accept its own. its hypocritical of to say respect us but we don't have to respect others. grow and realize that its not about you and not about LGBT either. i have a lot of friends in the LGBT community and i am glad to say they are not as closed minded. in the words of tyler durden you are not special. adding to that it is not everyone elses responsibility to accommodate you. be as you are but let everyone else in this word be as they are and stop picking out differences because thats what makes everything worse!


Amen to that Johndis. As a member of the LGBT community and a tranny as some call us I also find it very sad and repulsive that some people in our community perform the same prejudice that they say they are fighting against. Some people need to stop talking and think before they speak.

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