Re: Experimental Fail

I'm extremely confused by the initial rejection, and especially by the defense of other designs in the fog, but here is this design again. I thought that the concept was extremely clear the first time, but now I changed the bottle and specifically labeled it as detergent with bleach so there can be no question about what is going on in this design. I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment. We don't just dump chemicals on animals. This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever, which is exactly what I would expect to see from the majority of students in a middle school science fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented and voted the first time around, hopefully you still like the design.

ramyb wrote:I'm extremely confused by the initial rejection, and especially by the defense of other designs in the fog, but here is this design again. I thought that the concept was extremely clear the first time, but now I changed the bottle and specifically labeled it as detergent with bleach so there can be no question about what is going on in this design. I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment. We don't just dump chemicals on animals. This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever, which is exactly what I would expect to see from the majority of students in a middle school science fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented and voted the first time around, hopefully you still like the design.

You're offended?
Woot sure isn't the place for people to hang out who are easily offended.

I swear I've seen this before.

ramyb wrote:I'm extremely confused by the initial rejection, and especially by the defense of other designs in the fog, but here is this design again. I thought that the concept was extremely clear the first time, but now I changed the bottle and specifically labeled it as detergent with bleach so there can be no question about what is going on in this design. I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment. We don't just dump chemicals on animals. This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever, which is exactly what I would expect to see from the majority of students in a middle school science fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented and voted the first time around, hopefully you still like the design.

Something like this, which is obviously harmful to animals, would never fly in a middle school science fair. For one, most of the time the concept of the entry is screened by teachers, and another, parents are usually involved in some fashion. Neither would let something like this pass.

Nice design otherwise, but I agree that it's off topic and not middle-school-science-fair material.

ramyb wrote:I'm extremely confused by the initial rejection, and especially by the defense of other designs in the fog, but here is this design again. I thought that the concept was extremely clear the first time, but now I changed the bottle and specifically labeled it as detergent with bleach so there can be no question about what is going on in this design. I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment. We don't just dump chemicals on animals. This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever, which is exactly what I would expect to see from the majority of students in a middle school science fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented and voted the first time around, hopefully you still like the design.

Hey, I say more power to you for being able to defend it. I got it the first time that it was a kid that *hoped* to have the turtles transform. I thought it was clever and something a middle school kid would try to enter into a science fair.

sefjwm wrote:I swear I've seen this before.

If you think these shirts are similar then you missed the joke

Re: Experimental Fail

Blah blah blah epic begins blah blah

On a serious note, maybe they were as confused as I since no household product has that intense, glowing green. A dark green yes, but not a "neon green." That always relates to radioactive matter, poison or concoctive chemistry (advanced stuff) in the cartoony world since it has an abnormal color. That my view at I see it at least.

I think ever detergent I have used has been blue. Is there really a "glowing" green detergent. I would use it

ciaranannrach wrote:Something like this, which is obviously harmful to animals, would never fly in a middle school science fair. For one, most of the time the concept of the entry is screened by teachers, and another, parents are usually involved in some fashion. Neither would let something like this pass.

Nice design otherwise, but I agree that it's off topic and not middle-school-science-fair material.

Because birds in a blender would obviously be okay in a middle school science fair. Come on.

Glad you resubmitted this!

advertisinggal wrote:Hey, I say more power to you for being able to defend it. I got it the first time that it was a kid that *hoped* to have the turtles transform. I thought it was clever and something a middle school kid would try to enter into a science fair.

thanks

As for it not being middle school material, I have never heard of teachers screening science fair projects before they are done. When I was in school, it was a surprise what your project was until the day you presented. This would obviously not fly from the perspective of a teacher, but for a student trying it and thinking it might work, this could totally happen. If we are looking at the end result and saying that's the reason it is not science fair material, then most of the fogged entries (which have already been defended by tgentry) should also be rejected for the same reason.

sefjwm wrote:I swear I've seen this before.

Yeah, it's a joke on that one. In this one instead of mutating, they die, like what would happen in reality.

Also, maybe you can put a 'disqualified' or 'rejected' sign on the experiment if woot doesn't agree with this submission.

nickthedino wrote:Because birds in a blender would obviously be okay in a middle school science fair. Come on.

Glad you resubmitted this!

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm in no way saying that bird-blender shirt is ok and shouldn't be rejected either. In fact I'm somewhat surprised it hasn't been rejected.

ramyb wrote:thanks

As for it not being middle school material, I have never heard of teachers screening science fair projects before they are done. When I was in school, it was a surprise what your project was until the day you presented. This would obviously not fly from the perspective of a teacher, but for a student trying it and thinking it might work, this could totally happen. If we are looking at the end result and saying that's the reason it is not science fair material, then most of the fogged entries (which have already been defended by tgentry) should also be rejected for the same reason.

I agree...they should be rejected as should this one. I'm glad we agree on this point.

sTyLeS wrote:I agree...they should be rejected as should this one. I'm glad we agree on this point.

The topic does not ask for an experiment as it is turned in and being judged. It asks for anything ranging from the idea all the way through to the actual fair itself. This is a failed experiment that a child tried in his quest to do an awesome science fair project. There is nothing even questionable to me about it being on topic.

ramyb wrote:thanks

As for it not being middle school material, I have never heard of teachers screening science fair projects before they are done. When I was in school, it was a surprise what your project was until the day you presented. This would obviously not fly from the perspective of a teacher, but for a student trying it and thinking it might work, this could totally happen. If we are looking at the end result and saying that's the reason it is not science fair material, then most of the fogged entries (which have already been defended by tgentry) should also be rejected for the same reason.

the teachers approved projects in my school

Leahbh wrote:the teachers approved projects in my school

Fortunately, the rules were not written specifically about your school and therefore cover all science fair formats

ramyb wrote:thanks

As for it not being middle school material, I have never heard of teachers screening science fair projects before they are done. When I was in school, it was a surprise what your project was until the day you presented. This would obviously not fly from the perspective of a teacher, but for a student trying it and thinking it might work, this could totally happen. If we are looking at the end result and saying that's the reason it is not science fair material, then most of the fogged entries (which have already been defended by tgentry) should also be rejected for the same reason.

Have you heard of parents screening their child's project though? I know parental involvement seems to be a thing of the past but come on. If we are going to talk about a fake middle school science fair and the fake teachers that are or are not screening the fake science project, let us think about the fake parents. Would your response to your child's "hey I'm going to do a science fair project" be "Ok son, don't tell me what it is though, I don't want to have any part in your life, after all I have tons of Call of Duty to play." Hopefully not. Point is, I don't see this showing up at a middle school science fair, with or without teacher-screening.

jzlosman wrote:Have you heard of parents screening their child's project though? I know parental involvement seems to be a thing of the past but come on. If we are going to talk about a fake middle school science fair and the fake teachers that are or are not screening the fake science project, let us think about the fake parents. Would your response to your child's "hey I'm going to do a science fair project" be "Ok son, don't tell me what it is though, I don't want to have any part in your life, after all I have tons of Call of Duty to play." Hopefully not. Point is, I don't see this showing up at a middle school science fair, with or without teacher-screening.

I have in fact heard of parents screening projects. I have also heard of students doing things on their own. The fact that one exists does not negate the presence of the other. By the point of middle school, many kids are more or less independent when it comes to doing school work. Some active parents may still be involved, others are not. Your argument hinges on the assumption that there is not a single negligent parent or independent teenage student out there. When I was in middle school, we were supposed to work alone and were discouraged from getting parental help or guidance. Did some parents get involved? Yes, but many didn't even know the science fair was happening. And like I said earlier, the topic includes actually carrying out the experiment. If a kid carried out this experiment with the intention of turning it in and got "unexpected" results, he may or may not present on the day of the fair, but that doesn't mean it was not his attempt at a science fair project.

ramyb wrote:Fortunately, the rules were not written specifically about your school and therefore cover all science fair formats

And fortunately the rules were not written specifically about your school where they apparently promote the mutilation of pets.

ramyb wrote:The topic does not ask for an experiment as it is turned in and being judged. It asks for anything ranging from the idea all the way through to the actual fair itself. This is a failed experiment that a child tried in his quest to do an awesome science fair project. There is nothing even questionable to me about it being on topic.

Geeze. It is ugly. The concept is ugly. The mind that would do this experiment is extremely ugly. I 'get' the joke. It just sucks. I can't imagine this design fitting with woot's self-described PG-13 (=G) system.

sTyLeS wrote:And fortunately the rules were not written specifically about your school where they apparently promote the mutilation of pets.

Not everything students do has to be promoted by the school. There are many stories about middle school students poisoning their teachers, for example (yes, shockingly enough, middle school students do have access to poisonous substances). Do you think the principal told them to do it? How about their parents? No, the students chose to do it independently. Students make poor decisions all the time. I understand you are trying to be snarky without actually having an argument, but there is really no reason for your statement.

Re: Experimental Fail

One of the things that often annoys me in Ramy's threads is the nitpicking that goes on. Already we're trying to decide the specific rules of a hypothetical science fair. *sigh.* If one was so inclined, half (or more) of the derby entries could be eliminated by the logic people are using here.

I read tgentry's post in the previous submission, but the way I see it is while this is clearly not science as any scientist would describe it, nor is it something that would usually turn up in a science fair, it is clearly an experiment and one which a middle schooler could do and may himself think is science.

I think the similar shirts exist claim has a bit more legitimacy, though. While I see that while in one shirt the turtles die and in the other they don't, the overall layout of the turtles in the detergent cage makes me a bit uneasy.

ramyb wrote:Not everything students do has to be promoted by the school. There are many stories about middle school students poisoning their teachers, for example (yes, shockingly enough, middle school students do have access to poisonous substances). Do you think the principal told them to do it? How about their parents? No, the students chose to do it independently. Students make poor decisions all the time. I understand you are trying to be snarky without actually having an argument, but there is really no reason for your statement.

Of course there's a reason for my statement. It's that I disagree with you.

ramyb wrote:I'm extremely confused by the initial rejection, and especially by the defense of other designs in the fog, but here is this design again. I thought that the concept was extremely clear the first time, but now I changed the bottle and specifically labeled it as detergent with bleach so there can be no question about what is going on in this design. I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment. We don't just dump chemicals on animals. This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever, which is exactly what I would expect to see from the majority of students in a middle school science fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented and voted the first time around, hopefully you still like the design.

On the original design you used a skull and crossbones which are usually used to represent detergent and bleach... amirite?

Re: Experimental Fail

What a depressing derby this is turning out to be. We like animals, we don't want them trapped in a cage with x's for eyes. Zombie turtles are acceptable, but not dead ones.

clarinerd wrote:
I read tgentry's post in the previous submission, but the way I see it is while this is clearly not science as any scientist would describe it, nor is it something that would usually turn up in a science fair, it is clearly an experiment and one which a middle schooler could do and may himself think is science.

I see your point here. While the topic of the experiment clearly seems to be bio-mutation, which on the surface seems to be out of the reach of a middle schooler, it's not being approached at a level that would be out of their grasp (like say an advanced report on radioactivity's effect on chromosomes or proteins). Similarly there could be advanced levels of light or plant growth that would be too advanced for middle schoolers, and thus against the rules. OK, you've convinced me.

ciaranannrach wrote:Something like this, which is obviously harmful to animals, would never fly in a middle school science fair. For one, most of the time the concept of the entry is screened by teachers, and another, parents are usually involved in some fashion. Neither would let something like this pass.

Nice design otherwise, but I agree that it's off topic and not middle-school-science-fair material.

I don't think most of the entries this time could pass the 'teachers wouldn't let it be put up' test.

ramyb wrote:If you think these shirts are similar then you missed the joke

If you think this shirt is similar to that other one that looks exactly like this, you didn't "get it."

oh, right. my bad.

ramyb wrote:This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever

Agreed.

Re: Experimental Fail

It's looking like Dark Humor is rampant in this derby. >.> Birds in blenders and poisoned turtles.

Although some people might look at this and think "Dear God, how could anyone do that to those poor defenseless animals?" You also have to understand that this is a graphic. No turtles were harmed in the making of this shirt. I'll also be laughing at those people whilst I wear this shirt (assuming it wins a placement).

I like the design. It's humorous in that dark and sinister way that always reminds me of middle school.

Also, I've been buying shirts for a bit (admittedly quite a few are Ramyb's designs) but I haven't posted in the community for very long. What is the deal with all the hate? What did Ramyb do exactly to garnish all this negative attention?

Re: Experimental Fail

Should have made it a bottle of Surge soda. Do they even still make that stuff? Holy cow it would mess me up...and it was that funky, unnatural green...-shudder-

Re: Experimental Fail

tgentry wrote:I see your point here. While the topic of the experiment clearly seems to be bio-mutation, which on the surface seems to be out of the reach of a middle schooler, it's not being approached at a level that would be out of their grasp (like say an advanced report on radioactivity's effect on chromosomes or proteins). Similarly there could be advanced levels of light or plant growth that would be too advanced for middle schoolers, and thus against the rules. OK, you've convinced me.

I'm not I'm following exactly what you've been convinced of but as someone who is a scientist the initial rejection was correct. Part of the requirements for funding agencies and departments is outreach into the community and as a result I have spent a fair amount of time coordinating and presenting for science clubs in our local area.

Any sort of mutation project is well beyond the reach of middle schoolers and junior high even into high school. What isn't beyond middle schoolers is that if you pour bleach on animals they die. The shirt is a poorly shoehorned attempt at a TMNT reference which has absolutely no basis in the theme.

With all of the controversy regarding ethical use of animals, there is no possibility even at the middle school level that kids are taking animals in the attempt to "do stuff to them." It's not responsible and it's not something that should be profited off of as a joke.

It's irresponsible and unethical and the fact that it would be allowed is personally insulting especially given the great lengths that everyone in science from the top down has to go through to ensure that animals are used in responsible ways.

sTyLeS wrote:And fortunately the rules were not written specifically about your school where they apparently promote the mutilation of pets.

None of the schools I went to allowed any live animals to be used in science fair projects.

Regardless of whether this fits the category or not, it's still just another bland, cutesy ramyb entry that will most likely get much more votes than it deserves.

Fritzcario wrote:Regardless of whether this fits the category or not, it's still just another bland, cutesy ramyb entry that will most likely get much more votes than it deserves.

I think that goes without saying.

I see the point that a child may try to mutate turtles using bleach, and see it as scientific. However, only a developmentally deficient middle schooler would actually see this as reasonable. A six year old might, but not an 11 year old.

I have to agree that this derby is generally disappointing so far, but that doesn't excuse this entry either. You can dress it up as "a child's view of science" all you want, it's still just a Sirius GPP TMNT reference.

Re: Experimental Fail

Doesn't seem too experimental, but it's definitely fail.

Re: Experimental Fail

What I find disturbing is that so many people want to wear dead and tortured turtles on their shirt. I own quite a few ramyb shirts, so I am not a hater, just a turtle lover.

Re: Experimental Fail

If this were an actual middle school science experiment, it would make me very sad.

Re: Experimental Fail

I don't really care about the rules. This shirt just creeps me out. I imagine this science project done by a really sick kid. And I really find TMNT shirts boring, regardless of the artist.

It is well drawn, though. In this case, however, that might make it worse.

Re: Experimental Fail

.....Look, I understand there's sort of a huge controversy surrounding ramyb's designs. I'm not saying the following because of that. I would say this no matter who the artist was, and I'm not trying to be nitpicky.

....but, I'm sorry, I just don't see the experiment here. Okay, you dumped chemicals on turtles in a terrarium and they... died? Umm, duh? When was the scientific method involved here? This is still off-topic.

bassanimation wrote:Should have made it a bottle of Surge soda. Do they even still make that stuff? Holy cow it would mess me up...and it was that funky, unnatural green...-shudder-

we drank that all the time in school when it came out. not sure why they thought it was a good idea to stock the vending machines with it. surge was like an early version of energy drinks.

Re: Experimental Fail

Awesome. I support this shirt.

Re: Experimental Fail

I can't tell if some of these negative post against this entry are actually serious or just haters of ramyB. Either way, they're grasping at straws.

For example, the people arguing that an 11 year old would be smart enough to know this experiment wouldn't work. If you wanted the derby entries to realistically capture the experiments in a middle school science fair, we'd only have a bunch of entries revolving around potato catapults and posters based on the water cycle, which I'm pretty sure no one wants.

thewayisshut wrote:

....but, I'm sorry, I just don't see the experiment here. Okay, you dumped chemicals on turtles in a terrarium and they... died? Umm, duh? When was the scientific method involved here? This is still off-topic.

Ask a question:
Will turtles mutate and fight crime if exposed to a toxic substance?

Research:
Watched 16 hours of TMNT

Hypothesis:
Cartoons have never let me down before. Yes turtles will mutate.

Test Hypothesis:
Pour Toxins on turtles. Wait.

Analyze data:
Turtles have not grown, nor begun talking. Seem to be oblivious to ninja weapon supplied.

Results:
Turtles have died.


First place ribbon please!

lunadust12 wrote:we drank that all the time in school when it came out. not sure why they thought it was a good idea to stock the vending machines with it. surge was like an early version of energy drinks.

For awhile, when I called a friend and they answered the phone, I would yell "Surge!!!!!" Those were such weird commercials...

chumpmagic wrote: Blah
I think ever detergent I have used has been blue. Is there really a "glowing" green detergent. I would use it

I don't know about laundry detergent...but there's green dish soap...

Re: Experimental Fail

Okay, I've done my fair share of Ramy criticism, but come on. This shirt is in extremely poor taste. Why it got "unrejected" is beyond me.

Shame on you, Shirt.Woot!

alfbo wrote:Okay, I've done my fair share of Ramy criticism, but come on. This shirt is in extremely poor taste. Why it got "unrejected" is beyond me.

Shame on you, Shirt.Woot!

Looks like they had to use "text" to label it, so without the label, it's nuclear waste (obviously Middle-school mutant ninja turtles) Besides, IT'S A VIDEO GAME!

IT'S A VIDEO GAME, IT A VIDEO GAME!

alfbo wrote:Okay, I've done my fair share of Ramy criticism, but come on. This shirt is in extremely poor taste. Why it got "unrejected" is beyond me.

Shame on you, Shirt.Woot!

The bird shirt is much worse. That little girl knows exactly what she's doing, and she's smiling about it.

blinddog3d wrote:Looks like they had to use "text" to label it, so without the label, it's nuclear waste (obviously Middle-school mutant ninja turtles) Besides, IT'S A VIDEO GAME!

IT'S A VIDEO GAME, IT A VIDEO GAME!

Re: Experimental Fail

Hah. Really? You know, I've been fairly interested in the entire ramyb drama-saga on Shirt.Woot. There have been some interesting debates here and there. "Bwah, we hates the turtles." And, "No, we loves the cutey-cute." And, "Stop breakin' the rules." And, "Don't be a hater." I just chalked it up to a guy drawing what he likes, and the internet responding with it's usual opinion war.

But this really is ridiculous. This week, I call troll. It seems to me that you're just trying to light fires and tick people off now, while you sit back and enjoy being fought over by the obsessed. I guess if I garnered the kind of funds that you do from Woot, I could pick up trolling as a hobby, too.

In any case, this design really misses the mark on being clever and falls right into being disturbing. Woot announces "Science Fair" as the theme and poisoning turtles like an unsupervised, TMNT-obsessed child is the first place you go? Says a bit about you, doesn't it.

Defend it all you like. In the end, you're still the dude who drew dead turtles and justified it as art. A~w, but they're cute, so it's ok.

If this prints, I can't decide if I'm going to be more ashamed of Woot, or of humanity in general for voting it there. I own a ramy shirt, I enjoy it, but this piss-taking is getting out of hand.

Re: Experimental Fail

Sorry Ramyb- you are still rehashing the 4 turtles!
No go on this design!

jeanerz13 wrote:I don't know about laundry detergent...but there's green dish soap...

Yeah I was thinking laundry detergent and not dishwasher detergent. I guess that will have to do.

Re: Experimental Fail

I really enjoy this shirt! From the girl who was doing bacterial population studies on milk in the fourth grade.

And honestly, there is plenty of animal experiments in everyday science. I'm a cancer researcher, we work in mice. I've worked with fish, with bees. Animals die in the name of science, it's ugly but it happens. And a cute little kid trying to bring his favorite characters to life is cute, it's a sweet concept that many can relate to. I hope this prints. The people in my lab will enjoy it as much as I do.

nickthedino wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST. Or maybe a comic. Either way, they didn't originate in video games.

It started as a comic in the mid-80s. Followed by 4 TV series, 4 films, and are you ready for this...21 video games. How can you try to make a case that TMNT is not a video game. The origin media is irrelevant.

jzlosman wrote:It started as a comic in the mid-80s. Followed by 4 TV series, 4 films, and are you ready for this...21 video games. How can you try to make a case that TMNT is not a video game. The origin media is irrelevant.

http://tmntgame.us.ubi.com/#


Thank you, my point exactly!!!

Am I Blind?!?
Yes, ...to poor rebutles by lemmings.
brUno

A couple of things... didn't he do a TMNT theme shirt a few weeks ago? I mean, there has to be some penalty points for flogging a dead horse... but I guess everybody seems to love the dead horse.

Second... would your average kid even know what TMNT is at this point... being in my late-20s I"m not "hip" to the "kids"... but as far as I'm aware its been awhile since any TMNT stuff has been on tv/movies/cereal/etc.

I suppose that's a moot point... I don't know from where the Ramy legion rises but they are just that.... legion.

Re: Experimental Fail

I think this shirt is fine and fits the theme, and has a dark sense of humor that I like. All the people who are over sensitive need to relax. As stated above it seems okay to draw zombies which are reanimated freaking people, but you kill a few imaginary turtles and the world ends.

There are plenty of abstract "experiments" that could never happen but people have issue with this design. You've got my vote, keep up the great art work.

Re: Experimental Fail

Well, I think the shirt is on the edge between dark humor and poor taste. I probably wouldn't wear it myself, but unlike others, I don't feel its mere existence is not an affront to science or animals.

That's not why I posted though. I keep seeing people say TMNT was a video game first. The original TMNT was a comic book (first published in 1984). It was a small, independent comic which grew into a multi-media phenomenon very quickly.

jzlosman wrote:It started as a comic in the mid-80s. Followed by 4 TV series, 4 films, and are you ready for this...21 video games. How can you try to make a case that TMNT is not a video game. The origin media is irrelevant.

Unless it's not. Woot decides on how the rules apply and generally what format the original thing started as does tend to matter in their process. However flawed that might be. They've made one rejection for video games for TNMT and swung the other way on that ever since then.

We've had several "no video game" derbies with TMNT shirts surviving until the end in the fog without rejections. Arguing whether or not 21 games matter more than the comic that started it and continued to be made for 15 years... (how many issues is that? Looks like 129 issues) seems a bit silly. You could make the argument that without the comic all the rest of the media wouldn't exist but like I said it just gets a bit silly. Just tattle it.

This seems to be within the rules of this week's derby, though like nearly all of Ramy's shirts it doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the fog. But I see a larger problem than the subject matter of the shirt, namely that its graphic is tiny. People would have to get up close and squint just to figure out what the hell was going on. And considering how lãme the shirt is, the payoff for doing so would be nonexistent.

Re: Experimental Fail

The design seems very small. You may have labeled the bottle as 'Detergent' but that almost assuredly would not be legible to anyone looking at the shirt. Aside from the fact that this could be depicting borderline animal cruelty, even if it's just to be blamed on some Jatravartid kid at a science fair, I don't care for the execution at all.

Re: Experimental Fail

This is really sad how obsessed people are getting over this...

Re: Experimental Fail

I get the joke, I like TMNT and all, but I don't wanna walk around with a picture of dead turtles on my shirt though.

What is it with Ramyb and turtles?!

Sigh.

ChicagoJayhawk wrote:What is it with Ramyb and turtles?!

Sigh.

It is his way of coping with chelonaphobia lol

DianaSprinkle wrote:We've had several "no video game" derbies with TMNT shirts surviving until the end in the fog without rejections. Arguing whether or not 21 games matter more than the comic that started it and continued to be made for 15 years... (how many issues is that? Looks like 129 issues) seems a bit silly. You could make the argument that without the comic all the rest of the media wouldn't exist but like I said it just gets a bit silly. Just tattle it.

also, if you went by the fact that something had a video game made out of it at some point, a lot of things would be off limits since they seem to make a video game about anything these days...

Patman1209 wrote:Second... would your average kid even know what TMNT is at this point... being in my late-20s I"m not "hip" to the "kids"... but as far as I'm aware its been awhile since any TMNT stuff has been on tv/movies/cereal/etc.

i am a huge fan of TMNT so to me i always appreciate a reference, but i have a 4 year old nephew that LOVES THEM. Thy still have tons of merchandising for them, they still show the cartoon on tv, they just had a movie out not too long ago, they still have video games, and Nickelodeon is actually making a new TMNT cartoon at this very moment. not to mention TMNT references seem to do well here. with all that i say that they are doing just fine.

mrwednesday wrote:It's irresponsible and unethical and the fact that it would be allowed is personally insulting especially given the great lengths that everyone in science from the top down has to go through to ensure that animals are used in responsible ways.

If only this statement was true. The human race can't even get past barbaric murder of animals for fashion (see Donna Karen/DKNY Bunny Butcher), let alone science. I'll stop here as that's way to big of an argument to start here.

Re: Experimental Fail

I suppose it would be moot at this point to ask why they're so freaking shiny. Has someone been buffing these turtles dead, and then been using "detergent" as a cover-up?

WHY DO THEY SHINE?

In the words of Harry Plinkett, MAKES NO SENSE.

DianaSprinkle wrote:
Arguing whether or not 21 games matter more than the comic that started it and continued to be made for 15 years... (how many issues is that? Looks like 129 issues) seems a bit silly. You could make the argument that without the comic all the rest of the media wouldn't exist but like I said it just gets a bit silly. Just tattle it.

You quoted my post but I don't recall it saying the video games were more important than the comic. I seem to be lost on the idea that it can only be considered one or the other. Is it a movie? Yes. Is it a comic book? Yes. Is it a video game? Yes. Was it a cereal? Yes. Is it a cartoon series? Yes. Was it a short-lived rock band with an album titled "Coming Out Of Their Shells"? Yes.

My post was pointing out that it was more than just a comic and it was very much a video game. I think you can do more than just "make the argument that without the comic all the rest of the media wouldn't exist." That is the truth as that was the source - again not the point being argued though but thanks for your input.

*25 years not 15 - a very slow release schedule.

Re: Experimental Fail

I'm really not a Ramy hater... My Carbon Atom shirt is one of my favorite shirts from this site.

But this is just ugly and borderline uncomfortable I'm afraid...

I respectably don't understand why this is fogged. There are so many other ways this could have gone, and we go for dead turtles? =/

Wow. I try to never get into the Ramyb flame war and have been surprised in the past at comments on both sides but this particular topic... wow this has to be a new low record on Woot of all the mud slinging and hateful comments. I have to admit I am a bit surprised this hasn't been rejected again for various reasons already stated and that there was very little changed on the resubmission without really confronting the original problem. I can just say if this wins I won't be buying this shirt.

nickthedino wrote:The people arguing that an 11 year old would be smart enough to know this experiment wouldn't work. If you wanted the derby entries to realistically capture the experiments in a middle school science fair, we'd only have a bunch of entries revolving around potato catapults and posters based on the water cycle, which I'm pretty sure no one wants.

Actually, that's kind of what I hoped for with this derby: interesting designs based on actual scientific ideas you might find in a science fair. Not sadistic machinations of a disturbed child.

What's really amazing to me is that ramy's fans are somehow unable to grasp the simple idea that this shirt is depicting DEAD TURTLES because a) they're cute and/or b) it references the Ninja Turtles.

Let's throw out any criticism relating to the theme, colors, style, etc. How can anybody in good conscience vote for and wear a shirt that is essentially making a JOKE out of poisoning animals? This isn't T-Shirt Hell, where tasteless shirts like this belong. This design has no place on woot in any derby.

sTyLeS wrote:Of course there's a reason for my statement. It's that I disagree with you.

Maybe you just wanna win a little to much. I think raymb knows a little bit about making woot shirts.

jzlosman wrote:You quoted my post but I don't recall it saying the video games were more important than the comic. I seem to be lost on the idea that it can only be considered one or the other. Is it a movie? Yes. Is it a comic book? Yes. Is it a video game? Yes. Was it a cereal? Yes. Is it a cartoon series? Yes. Was it a short-lived rock band with an album titled "Coming Out Of Their Shells"? Yes.

My post was pointing out that it was more than just a comic and it was very much a video game. I think you can do more than just "make the argument that without the comic all the rest of the media wouldn't exist." That is the truth as that was the source - again not the point being argued though but thanks for your input.

*25 years not 15 - a very slow release schedule.

Sorry about that I think I was quoting your post and replying to the general discussion on how the "Video Game" part is important enough to make this rejectable. Which, as stated in the rest of my comment, has been shown by other derbies to not be the case except for one sad exception.

LOL, I think I already said the argument for that would be silly but thanks for your input. Moving onnnnn. =D

Re: Experimental Fail

All this does is make me sad for the poor little turtles.....

sefjwm wrote:I swear I've seen this before.

1. I thought it looked exactly like this shirt and wondered why it wasn't rejected on those grounds.

2. I must dumb, cause I don't get the joke at all.

3. Somewhere else in the comments, the skull and cross bones is poison, not detergents or bleach necessarily.

blinddog3d wrote:Looks like they had to use "text" to label it, so without the label, it's nuclear waste (obviously Middle-school mutant ninja turtles) Besides, IT'S A VIDEO GAME!

IT'S A VIDEO GAME, IT A VIDEO GAME!

It was a cartoon long before it was a video game.

palookaboy wrote:
How can anybody in good conscience vote for and wear a shirt that is essentially making a JOKE out of poisoning animals?

Well the first thing I did was develop a sense of humor.

Then I noted that it was a DRAWING

Then I watched 7 1/2 minutes of national news and came to the realization that there are literally thousands of things going on in this world worse than a drawing of dead animals.

Februaryxvi wrote:Well the first thing I did was develop a sense of humor.

Then I noted that it was a DRAWING

Then I watched 7 1/2 minutes of national news and came to the realization that there are literally thousands of things going on in this world worse than a drawing of dead animals.

There's a difference between a funny joke and a tasteless joke, and someone with a good sense of humor can recognize the difference. Tasteless jokes can still be funny, but they have a place that is, in my opinion, not in this site's derby competition.

Of course there's worse things going on in the world than this design. But that's not what this thread is for. This thread is to comment on the t-shirt design, so belittling the debate itself is pointless.

Februaryxvi wrote:Well the first thing I did was develop a sense of humor.

Then I noted that it was a DRAWING

Then I watched 7 1/2 minutes of national news and came to the realization that there are literally thousands of things going on in this world worse than a drawing of dead animals.

haha

I think this shirt is fine, I like it, and it received my vote. And I really don't know why there is so much arguing and negativity in this thread: if you don't like ramyb and his designs, I suggest you just comment elsewhere instead of putting him down.

Februaryxvi wrote:Well the first thing I did was develop a sense of humor.

Then I noted that it was a DRAWING

Then I watched 7 1/2 minutes of national news and came to the realization that there are literally thousands of things going on in this world worse than a drawing of dead animals.

Ha ha--thank you, February, for that dose of sanity and perspective.

All this lengthy analysis of a joke shirt is coming across as silly.

Februaryxvi wrote:Ask a question:
Will turtles mutate and fight crime if exposed to a toxic substance?

Research:
Watched 16 hours of TMNT

Hypothesis:
Cartoons have never let me down before. Yes turtles will mutate.

Test Hypothesis:
Pour Toxins on turtles. Wait.

Analyze data:
Turtles have not grown, nor begun talking. Seem to be oblivious to ninja weapon supplied.

Results:
Turtles have died.


First place ribbon please!

This is completely IMO, but for this derby I would personally like to see entries based on REAL science fair projects. I mean, come on... how many shirts do we have that ape some cartoon or pop culture reference? For that matter... how many damn TMNT shirts do we have? Come on people, surely you don't want to buy the same shirt over and over again!

...also, Woot rejected this in the first place because it had to do with mutation, which is not (according to them) middle school science fair material. Just because you make the chemical "bleach" instead of "mystery toxic waste" doesn't change the focus of the project from mutation....

ramyb wrote:I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment.

Wait, you're a scientist? You draw cartoon turtles, squirrels, and penguins. Please do explain.

Awesome shirt.
I haven't bought anything off of woot in ages. Heck, I haven't even signed in to woot in ages.
I had to log in to vote for this shirt. I hope it gets back in the fog (got bumped out in the past 2 minutes).

Patricck wrote:Wait, you're a scientist? You draw cartoon turtles, squirrels, and penguins. Please do explain.

He also saves the world.

Patricck wrote:Wait, you're a scientist? You draw cartoon turtles, squirrels, and penguins. Please do explain.

I second that.

nickthedino wrote:I can't tell if some of these negative post against this entry are actually serious or just haters of ramyB. Either way, they're grasping at straws.

For example, the people arguing that an 11 year old would be smart enough to know this experiment wouldn't work. If you wanted the derby entries to realistically capture the experiments in a middle school science fair, we'd only have a bunch of entries revolving around potato catapults and posters based on the water cycle, which I'm pretty sure no one wants.

Hey... I'd wear a shirt based on the water cycle...

Re: Experimental Fail

all of this arguing about being on topic or a knock off of epic begins and not one comment about the placement? even if woot printed a little higher and smaller on a woman's shirt it'd still look like a couple of boxes sitting on top of the boobs. so take your pick - boxes on top of or covering your boobs, girls!

i don't approve of any of the shirts that are geared towards animal cruelty. i've watched too many shows like criminal minds and csi, and the people that were cruel to animals as a child were always the ones that wound up as serial killers or something of the like.

Re: Experimental Fail

Clever resub. I like your prism one much better though

Re: Experimental Fail

All you people wanted ramyb to get rid of his turtles. Then he kills them for you, and is met only with opposition! The mixed messages here are frightening.

Patricck wrote:Wait, you're a scientist? You draw cartoon turtles, squirrels, and penguins. Please do explain.

Maybe it's all part of a lengthy social experiment.

I honestly don't see why people hate on ramy all the time. Yeah, the guy seems to like designs w/ turtles and other "cutsy" depictions, but the fact that his shirts repeatedly make it to the fog and often print says something about the people who buy shirt woots.

And even if you don't necessarily think his designs are incredibly creative or as imaginative as some other designs, the guy makes an attractive t-shirt. I can't tell you how many times I've been really disappointed by some of the shirts that have won. NOT because they are poor designs or ugly, but because they don't look good on a t-shirt. Things like designs of phoenixes and stuff like that makes crappy shirts. Even if they are very well illustrated, they look about as attractive printed on a shirt as Wolf shirts do (though the people who flame and troll him all the time probably really like wolf shirts).

I've purchased several woot shirts because I thought the design was beautiful or cool or whatever, but have been severely disappointed because they look crappy on a shirt. A poster or desktop background might be cool, but not to wear around.

I don't understand why people feel the need to always put down ramy's work and try to nit-pick every design and insist it gets rejected. So you don't like it. Apparently lots of other people do and would be willing to buy it, and that's all shirt.woot really cares about to be honest. Ramy has found his niche and he makes designs accordingly. You can't get mad at him for sticking to his style, because EVERY woot shirt designer has a style that you can spot almost immediately.

I think everyone needs to stop taking a Jatravartid t-shirt design so seriously and just chillax and stop flaming every design ramy makes. He wouldn't make them if people didn't like and buy his shirts.

thewayisshut wrote:.....Look, I understand there's sort of a huge controversy surrounding ramyb's designs. I'm not saying the following because of that. I would say this no matter who the artist was, and I'm not trying to be nitpicky.

....but, I'm sorry, I just don't see the experiment here. Okay, you dumped chemicals on turtles in a terrarium and they... died? Umm, duh? When was the scientific method involved here? This is still off-topic.

I would agree with you, if it were not for the inclusion of a control tank. I'm a biologist and I've guest judged quite a few middle/elementary school science fairs. One of the things the teachers tend to emphasize to the students is the inclusion of control groups as well as experimental groups. The ability to distinguish experimental effects from environmental ones is critical in science.

There are many shirts here that emphasize the scientific method less than this one. Some just illustrate scientific concepts.

Honestly, if this prints I'm buying one.

Re: Experimental Fail

Wow! after reading half the comments about this shirt alone there's only one thing i can say its a t-shirst for F's sake! i saw it. i was like "aw poor turtles", but i got it. and i did snicker a little. the only thing i would say about the design is that either the bottle should NOT have any specific chemicals on it or that instead of a bottle maybe there should be a collection of unmarked smaller containers with different color liquids in front of the green container. We're voting on a design here!. not the imaginary ideas and plausibility behind it. though its not a shirt i would own, i like it. and if i saw some one wearing i would get a kick out of it.

joemail11 wrote:All you people wanted ramyb to get rid of his turtles. Then he kills them for you, and is met only with opposition! The mixed messages here are frightening.

lol they're not gone. they're still sitting in the tank. *for the record, I like most of ramy's t shirts, just not this one.

jboshaw wrote:

i don't approve of any of the shirts that are geared towards animal cruelty. i've watched too many shows like criminal minds and csi, and the people that were cruel to animals as a child were always the ones that wound up as serial killers or something of the like.

So drawing a cartoonish picture of dead turtles equals inflicting actual harm on real animals. Got it.

And crappy police forensics programs give us insights into the human psyche that are applicable to real life.

ReamusLQ wrote:
I don't understand why people feel the need to always put down ramy's work and try to nit-pick every design and insist it gets rejected. So you don't like it. Apparently lots of other people do and would be willing to buy it, and that's all shirt.woot really cares about to be honest. Ramy has found his niche and he makes designs accordingly. You can't get mad at him for sticking to his style, because EVERY woot shirt designer has a style that you can spot almost immediately.

Ramyb is successful. Success inspires jealousy. With any successful person, you're going to get people who criticize just for the sake of bring them down.

....yet, I see a lot of people who react to genuine criticism of ramyb shirts with "LEAVE RAMYB ALONE!" I don't think this is fair. Nothing is above criticism... science itself, in fact, is founded on the basis of intelligent criticism. Thus, people have a right to make either positive or negative comments about ANY artist...

Why is ramyb successful? It has nothing to do with artistic viability. Woot is NOT the market for artistic shirts... it caters to the funny and the cute sympathizers. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just the way things are.

...but, cute and cuddly is a style easily mastered. Go to any high school- there is a vast multitude of young folk who draw in that stereotypical kawaii style. It's not original, and it's very... safe. In the case of ramyb, he succeeds only because he has amassed a HUGE fanbase, and markets himself very well. That's why his shirts win and sell-the fan base buys then and dictates the outcome of all the derbies because of numbers.

Personally... I would like to buy shirts that push the artistic envelope. I really don't want to buy the same shirt over and over again. However, I am in the minority and I respect that... Even if this prints, I don't have to buy it, and I won't.

...this and the blender shirt, they re disgusting. It might be "just a cartoon..." but that's how you get people to accept horrible ideas. Through laughter...

ciaranannrach wrote:Something like this, which is obviously harmful to animals, would never fly in a middle school science fair. For one, most of the time the concept of the entry is screened by teachers, and another, parents are usually involved in some fashion. Neither would let something like this pass.

Nice design otherwise, but I agree that it's off topic and not middle-school-science-fair material.

I was allowed to equipment on fish for a science fair project in middle school so it depends on where you go.

Ramy, you could (should) start your own website. Make more money, and you won't have to post here anymore. Yeah? Yeah?

nickthedino wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST. Or maybe a comic. Either way, they didn't originate in video games.

TMNT was in fact a comic book first 3 years after they also made it into a cartoon. Regardless of what format it was in first TMNT was in fact a video game, and not just one video game either. Wiki has a kist of TMNT video games and they list 21 different games all titled TMNT. The fact is that in addition to being a comic and a cartoon it is also a video and that clearly violates the first rule of the derby and thus it should have no place in this derby.

Re: Experimental Fail

This shirt hinges on the nostalgia factor. "Oh look!" people say, "It's a ninja turtles joke! I love ninja turtles!". Show this shirt to someone who doesn't know what the ninja turtles are (though you might be hard-pressed) and it instantly loses its meaning. In other words, the design itself can't stand alone. This is why I don't like this design and think it's a really bad example of representing a science fair entry. Obviously, it's 'on topic' (whether or not it's in bad taste, a dumb kid with negligent parents could probably manage this), but these derbies give us a theme so that we can be creative and branch out...not so we can twist and bend it into a pop-culture reference that will gain us nostalgia votes. Even so, obviously Woot is trying to give all of us a fair shake. So, thanks Woot. And no thanks on this one, Ramy.

renovatioxii wrote:TMNT was in fact a comic book first 3 years after they also made it into a cartoon. Regardless of what format it was in first TMNT was in fact a video game, and not just one video game either. Wiki has a kist of TMNT video games and they list 21 different games all titled TMNT. The fact is that in addition to being a comic and a cartoon it is also a video and that clearly violates the first rule of the derby and thus it should have no place in this derby.

There has been ONE rejection for TMNT on the "no Video Game" rule and after that people complained. So ever since then TMNT shirts have NOT been rejected for the "no video game" rule.

Please see the India derby: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=49558
And the "Things that Start with the letter T" Derby: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=49842
And the Oddball derby: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=49957

All of these derbys had a "no Video Game" rule and had TMNT shirts that were not rejected. Woot seems to care about the original format for the "No Video Game" rule.

No it doesn't make sense but I guess that's how woot wants to deal with things that get TURNED into games.

Of course they could change their mind on this at any time. It's happened before. Shrug. Anyway! Let's move on to a different complaint shall we?

I just dont get how alot of these designs are not getting rejected. "Keep it at a level you would expect walking into a grade school gym to judge a kid's experiment" i mean really if i kid had a tank full of dead turtles due to toxic goo or soap i am pretty sure they would not even let him be part of the fair. and then then we have had designs with oversized steam robots and the list goes on. i didnt do anything for this week for two reason. first being i had to work both friday and saturday night so i would not have gotten a chance to post till sometime sunday. second i had no clue to what i could do that would be allowed. I had some ideas but none of them could have actually be pulled off buy a highschool or middleschool student. Dont get me wrong im not hating on any of these designs. I just hate how you never know exactly what you can and cant do on these derbies and they seem to get more vague as time passes.

taternuggets wrote:He also saves the world.

Saves us from what exactly? Lacking shirts with animals being horribly mutilated just for an attempt at a pop culture joke? Or not having a wardrobe filled with nothing but t-shirts with cute and fluffy animals. About as anti-hero as the friggin watchmen.

Re: Experimental Fail

Until several people pointed it out, I hadn't really realized the placement for a second. It would make women's boobs look boxey and squarish.

Re: Experimental Fail

Looks like a kid watched way to much Ninja Turtles right before their science fair.

Is the debate going on that this couldn't happen? Seems like a humorous story one might hear about, well.. minus the turtle death.

As a person who calls turtles his favorite animals I can see the problem with dead turtles, but it's a shirt.. to my knowledge no turtles were harmed in the making.

bluejester wrote:Until several people pointed it out, I hadn't really realized the placement for a second. It would make women's boobs look boxey and squarish.

Wait...you mean to tell me they don't look like that normally??

Re: Experimental Fail

I don't think the weapons are large enough for people to recognize it directly as a ninja turtles reference.

IgnatiusRiley wrote:So drawing a cartoonish picture of dead turtles equals inflicting actual harm on real animals. Got it.

And crappy police forensics programs give us insights into the human psyche that are applicable to real life.

Hahahahaha- excellent point!

ramyb wrote:thanks

As for it not being middle school material, I have never heard of teachers screening science fair projects before they are done. When I was in school, it was a surprise what your project was until the day you presented. This would obviously not fly from the perspective of a teacher, but for a student trying it and thinking it might work, this could totally happen. If we are looking at the end result and saying that's the reason it is not science fair material, then most of the fogged entries (which have already been defended by tgentry) should also be rejected for the same reason.

Then you are just making stuff up. Our science fair was a lot more involving than "Hey kids, just show up with what you think is Science."

It involved an entire process of getting your project approved, filling out your Scientific Method plan, creating progress reports, etc.

I'd never expect this to even get past the approval process.

To all the wonderful human beings complaining about this "not being middle school material" I don't remember any androids, frankenstein's monsters, or deadly robots at my science fair either. These shirts are supposed to be creative and fun, if you don't like it don't vote for it. To the middle age soccer moms that are terrified that this might be animal cruelty, or too much for little Timmy's young mind to handle, I would like to remind you that its a T-SHIRT! If you don't think you or your kid can handle the sight of dead cartoon turtles, just don't buy the shirt.

Re: Experimental Fail

I loves it. Forget the haters lol....

If a middle schooler ever did this experiment they would likely be put into a special education program. I think even if a 3rd grader were to do this I would question whether they were dropped on their head as a kid.
And if a kid were to do this experiment, they would probably get bullied and ridiculed similar to what Ramyb is currently experiencing.
Middle school is basically just like high school with lower expectations, it is not like elementary school where anything goes and everyone wins.

Re: Experimental Fail

I think it is hilarious. So what? Dead turtles. Yes it is a little depressing but there is no bad intention here. My sister once brought a baby chick to school in a plastic bag. There were no holes in said bag. You can see what happened here. In a perfect world there is no way this would happen but when I was younger I wanted a ninja turtle. Luckily I never got my hands on chemicals or turtles.
+1 for a great design.
+1 cojones points for big cojones

Re: Experimental Fail

Everything else aside, the design is just too small and detailed for a t-shirt. Detailed as in labels and weapons, not as intricate.

Conceptually, however, I enjoy this sort of humor, and see no harm in chuckling at the misfortune of some cartoon turtles.

Wow. I've been reading threads on woot for ages and finally had to post.

When I read the rules and saw the "no anthropomorphized" animals, I thought, "it'll be interesting to see what Ramy does - bet a bunch of people are glad to see this rule."

Then I read this post. Holy balls, you people bring your own dirt and water to these things.

Ramy likes doing cutesy designs. People buying woot shirts like buying cutesy designs. Seems like a good match. To all you people griping about the negative effect this has on "creativity" or "exposing new artists" or "cheapening the idea of what art is" blah blah blah - go cry someone else. If "art" is what you're trying to push, you're in the wrong place. It's a T-Shirt site for eff's sake.

If people wanted to buy the shirts you want woot to sell, they'd win the derby.

I'm not saying highly artistic shirts don't belong here, but I am saying that you're hating on the person who is supplying shirts people obviously want in a forum designed to pair artist and consumer. You don't like the buyers here - sell somewhere else. Don't tear down a designer who's found the right audience.

And the "who wants to buy the same shirt over and over" argument is crap too - people who like Ramy's shirts don't necessarily have to buy all of them. I'll buy a couple, I appreciate a few others, and I don't buy the rest. But clearly people do, or they wouldn't win derbies and they wouldn't last for weeks or months on the Reckoning.

Also, I'd like to point out that as nasty as the insults have gotten, Ramy's only posted comments defending his idea behind the design and hasn't gotten into pissing contests with the haters. Kudos on that, Ramy. You've shown a lot of restraint when people are tearing into simply because that's become their thing.

Jeez people. Stop hating and get back to drawing awesome shirts. It's a much more likely method for unseating Ramy in the fog.

That is not how you make turtle soup!
http://www.tasteofhome.com/Recipes/Turtle-Soup
As a avid hunter and fisherman I proudly support PETA.
(People Eating Tasty Animals)

Got my vote, and I'd love this shirt in addition to The Epic Begins.

dwnmoser wrote:I'm not saying highly artistic shirts don't belong here, but I am saying that you're hating on the person who is supplying shirts people obviously want in a forum designed to pair artist and consumer.

Unfortunately I don't think that all the votes come from the "consumers" though. People vote for cool/cute designs not good shirt designs. I think the "I Want One" button should require you to put down the payment and if that shirt wins, you already bought it. If it doesn't you get your money back. That way you stop voting for cool designs and vote for cool shirt designs that you will actually wear.

dwnmoser wrote:Wow. I've been reading threads on woot for ages and finally had to post.

When I read the rules and saw the "no anthropomorphized" animals, I thought, "it'll be interesting to see what Ramy does - bet a bunch of people are glad to see this rule."

Then I read this post. Holy balls, you people bring your own dirt and water to these things.

Ramy likes doing cutesy designs. People buying woot shirts like buying cutesy designs. Seems like a good match. To all you people griping about the negative effect this has on "creativity" or "exposing new artists" or "cheapening the idea of what art is" blah blah blah - go cry someone else. If "art" is what you're trying to push, you're in the wrong place. It's a T-Shirt site for eff's sake.

If people wanted to buy the shirts you want woot to sell, they'd win the derby.

I'm not saying highly artistic shirts don't belong here, but I am saying that you're hating on the person who is supplying shirts people obviously want in a forum designed to pair artist and consumer. You don't like the buyers here - sell somewhere else. Don't tear down a designer who's found the right audience.

And the "who wants to buy the same shirt over and over" argument is crap too - people who like Ramy's shirts don't necessarily have to buy all of them. I'll buy a couple, I appreciate a few others, and I don't buy the rest. But clearly people do, or they wouldn't win derbies and they wouldn't last for weeks or months on the Reckoning.

Also, I'd like to point out that as nasty as the insults have gotten, Ramy's only posted comments defending his idea behind the design and hasn't gotten into pissing contests with the haters. Kudos on that, Ramy. You've shown a lot of restraint when people are tearing into simply because that's become their thing.

Jeez people. Stop hating and get back to drawing awesome shirts. It's a much more likely method for unseating Ramy in the fog.

I started to read the 9 paragraph comment that you left about this t-shirt, then my ADD kicked in and I started thinking about something else (I can't remember what), then I tried seeing how many times I could crack my knuckles in a row, then I got hungry and made a sandwich - man I really like tuna salad. Wait a minute, what was I talking about again???

HansonMcCrotch wrote:I started to read the 9 paragraph comment that you left about this t-shirt, then my ADD kicked in and I started thinking about something else (I can't remember what), then I tried seeing how many times I could crack my knuckles in a row, then I got hungry and made a sandwich - man I really like tuna salad. Wait a minute, what was I talking about again???

You bothered to count the paragraphs though.

dwnmoser wrote:You bothered to count the paragraphs though.

Good defense of your design ramyb. Artists should be able to elaborate on the topic and do things from their own perspective, it usually turns out better than if taken too literally.

Oh look, there's always room for shiny turtles.

nickthedino wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST, THEY WERE A CARTOON FIRST. Or maybe a comic. Either way, they didn't originate in video games.

they were a comic first (i looked it up cause i knew they weren't a video game first, but i wasn't sure what WAS first eitehr lol)

and to put my two cents in otherwise, on topic, off topic, whatever else...i just don't wanna sport dead turtles on my shirt. other than being sad, i'm pretty sure i'd get beaten up by a lot of animal rights people out there.

Re: Experimental Fail

You know, normally I love jumping on hate trains. There's like this little me inside that says, "Yeah let's go piss in someone's Cheerios." However, I like to try to keep it objective (... it's fun resisting the urge sometimes). So on that note, I like this shirt. There was no phoned in nose or flying octopus birds. I'm happy. Ramyb did well here.

On the note of science fairs - This would have easily happened in my school. Most parents are too lazy to pay attention to their kids and few people screen middle school experiments because it is expected that parents helped them out and thereby rendered proper supervision. It most likely wouldn't be seen at a high school science fair since kids are hopefully smarter by then. (Then again, no child left behind).

On the note of animal cruelty - Yeah it's dead turtles. Innocent mistake or malicious intent? Well, I've seen a hell of a lot worse on Youtube, but should that really be the measuring stick?

Minus side, yeah it's kinda iffy.
Plus side, it's a cartoon joke, not real turtles.

It obviously does not promote giving turtles bleach / household chemicals. If it did, they would be happy, alive, and mutated turtles. Seems more like a warning to me; use this method and get dead turtles. Wearing this shirt will be like a public service announcement. I wonder if I can get volunteer hours for wearing it.

I'll step down from my soap box for the day. Once again, nice work Ramby.

Re: Experimental Fail

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be, this is an honest question) but I seem to see at least 7 colors on this shirt, not unlike the previous mistake with one of Ramy's shirts a few weeks back. The 7th color only appears as a subtle accent, but it seems fairly obvious to me.

The colors I see are:

1. White
2. Gray
3. Green (turtle's head and legs)
4. Dark Green (Shell)
5. Light Green (Detergent)
6. Light Blue (Halftone)

7. Black (used as an accent on the hanging weapons and also on the detergent bottle, as well as the letters of the tank)

8. Aqua-Green (Detergent Label -- I argued with myself over this one a bit, but it's a distinct color from the other greens)

Again, I could be wrong. Just curious. I suppose it's possible that the black might be an artifact as a result of the compiling the image into a jpeg, but the colors show up distinct on my screen.

Edit: And yes, I am considering that he is using the shirt color for the shadows on the shell.

scyndan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be, this is an honest question) but I seem to see at least 7 colors on this shirt, not unlike the previous mistake with one of Ramy's shirts a few weeks back. The 7th color only appears as a subtle accent, but it seems fairly obvious to me.

The colors I see are:

1. White
2. Gray
3. Green (turtle's head and legs)
4. Dark Green (Shell)
5. Light Green (Detergent)
6. Light Blue (Halftone)

7. Black (used as an accent on the hanging weapons and also on the detergent bottle, as well as the letters of the tank)

8. Aqua-Green (Detergent Label -- I argued with myself over this one a bit, but it's a distinct color from the other greens)

Again, I could be wrong. Just curious. I suppose it's possible that the black might be an artifact as a result of the compiling the image into a jpeg, but the colors show up distinct on my screen.

Edit: And yes, I am considering that he is using the shirt color for the shadows on the shell.

I'm pretty sure your number 7. "Black" is either negative spaced navy blue (for the letters) from the shirt color, or the same gray (on the weapons) as on the cages.

Your number 8. "Aqua-Green" on the other hand, does look like a seventh color. That would also be a plausible mistake, since when he resubbed he may have accidentally used yet another green color.

Re: Experimental Fail

You guys should really take your complaining back to facebook where it matte... oh wait... just press ALT + F4.

sefjwm wrote:I swear I've seen this before.

This is a way funnier TMNT shirt and is easily the most frequently complimented thing I've ever owned. It's hard to go out without someone beaming at it. I wish i had an extra one.

Re: Experimental Fail

My gosh! It's a freakin t-shirt, if you don't like it don't vote for it, heck vote everything else but this one so that it doesn't win. This is not PETA's fan club, yes the turtles have x's for eyes, but again....IT'S A T-SHIRT. If you don't like it don't buy it, but it would be a legitimate experiment regardless of it being approved or inhumane or any of the other whiney reasons mentioned before.

Assassin15 wrote:I'm pretty sure your number 7. "Black" is either negative spaced navy blue (for the letters) from the shirt color, or the same gray (on the weapons) as on the cages.

Your number 8. "Aqua-Green" on the other hand, does look like a seventh color. That would also be a plausible mistake, since when he resubbed he may have accidentally used yet another green color.

I looked to see if I could see the extra green color when i discovered this



I dont know if you can see on this 'zoom' in.
Just above the right hand dead turtle in the halftone area - there appears to be three 'skull and cross-bones'
Illusion, accidental or intentional??

Dude, it's just a smudge. Stop acting like Dan Brown meets Watson.

megadog wrote:I looked to see if I could see the extra green color when i discovered this

I dont know if you can see on this 'zoom' in.
Just above the right hand dead turtle in the halftone area - there appears to be three 'skull and cross-bones'
Illusion, accidental or intentional??

You don't need to zoom in or run a CSI "image refinement" script, there are 3 skulls floating up from the turtles. It is clear as day and it was intentional because it isn't hidden. I don't think "uncovering" these skulls means anything, we already know the turtles are dead.

The graphic is just too small to make a wearable shirt IMO. Glad to see this one has fallen out of the fog.

I could care less about the controversy over the content of the shirt, but does it even matter if no one can see whats on the shirt in the first place?

jzlosman wrote:You don't need to zoom in or run a CSI "image refinement" script, there are 3 skulls floating up from the turtles. It is clear as day and it was intentional because it isn't hidden. I don't think "uncovering" these skulls means anything, we already know the turtles are dead.

I'm glad somebody else can see them. I didn't intend to put any meaning into them. It was the first time I had seen them and just wondered if anyone else had seen them or were my eyes just playing tricks.

megadog wrote:I'm glad somebody else can see them. I didn't intend to put any meaning into them. It was the first time I had seen them and just wondered if anyone else had seen them or were my eyes just playing tricks.

I heard that if you wear this shirt backwards, you can see the words "Sad Satan."

Re: Experimental Fail

I don't like this line "it's just a t-shirt get over it" if someone posted a shirt with swastikas, or Squid Nipplist on it, that line wouldn't cut it. Suppose, my not being from the US, I'll make an anti US shirt. "hey, it's just a shirt. get over it"

besides, making something that is offensive to people, is not a good marketing strategy. Despite Ramy being popular, this design keeps being pushed out of the fog this week by other designs.

megadog wrote:I'm glad somebody else can see them. I didn't intend to put any meaning into them. It was the first time I had seen them and just wondered if anyone else had seen them or were my eyes just playing tricks.

Actually it kinda looks like to me that the poor turtles were banging their heads against the glass in a frantic effort to escape their cruel torture and murder at the hands of a sadistic future serial killer.

Or maybe they're skull-and-crossbones. I don't know.

usopp wrote:I don't like this line "it's just a t-shirt get over it" if someone posted a shirt with swastikas, or Squid Nipplist on it, that line wouldn't cut it. Suppose, my not being from the US, I'll make an anti US shirt. "hey, it's just a shirt. get over it"

besides, making something that is offensive to people, is not a good marketing strategy. Despite Ramy being popular, this design keeps being pushed out of the fog this week by other designs.

Hmmm....darn those pesky freedoms of expression in the US...NOT. It IS just a shirt. Go ahead and make an anti america shirt cause i won't care, i just won't buy or wear it. I don't find glittery shirts demeaning to fairies, but i don't mind if other people want them. So you shouldn't care if someone wants a shirt with these turtles on them.

Re: Experimental Fail

I am officially tired of TMNT designs, and zombies, squirrels and bunnies actually. I am not singling out Ramyb but I feel it is worth mentioning here since all of those are his MO. Let’s find a new fad to obsess about guys!

DianaSprinkle wrote:Unless it's not. Woot decides on how the rules apply and generally what format the original thing started as does tend to matter in their process. However flawed that might be. They've made one rejection for video games for TNMT and swung the other way on that ever since then.

The way it has worked was, a TMNT shirt was rejected under "No Video Games."

Then ramyb made a TMNT shirt in a "No Video Games" derby, and suddenly they became OK.

In other words, it's a double standard...

tjsynkral wrote:The way it has worked was, a TMNT shirt was rejected under "No Video Games."

Then ramyb made a TMNT shirt in a "No Video Games" derby, and suddenly they became OK.

In other words, it's a double standard...

No, if you want to say that it's all Ramyb's fault I can't stop you but the "India" derby and "Things that start with the letter T" derby had TMNT designs by OTHER ARTISTS before the Ramyb entry in the "Oddball" derby.

It's woot's site, they can change their mind. And lots of people complained about the first rejection being unfair. For whatever reason they aren't rejecting for it now for lots of artists.

DianaSprinkle wrote:Please see the India derby: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=49558
And the "Things that Start with the letter T" Derby: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=49842
And the Oddball derby: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=49957

All of these derbys had a "no Video Game" rule and had TMNT shirts that were not rejected.

oh why so, many, many, many assho-
violins....

Re: Experimental Fail

its a shirt! lol, what a thread! i have an idea.. if you do not like the shirt, how about not voting for it? its not whether the shirt is about killing turtles, its about whether it resonates with you for whatever reason enough to get a vote.... or not.

I love how RAMYB takes the high road! You just know that has the haters, hating him more than their anger management classes!

GMV!

Re: Experimental Fail

I really like the username "HansonMcCrotch". I also like the filter that says Squid Nipplist.

I am definitely seeing more than 6 colors here, too.

Re: Experimental Fail

mawkish wrote:I am definitely seeing more than 6 colors here, too.

k8edid3 wrote:i think you're correct. this is a navy shirt, not black, right? if so, then colors used are as follows:

black
white
grey
light green
dark green
bright green
blue

i think you are correct regardless of the color of the shirt
white
grey
light green -turtle head and legs
dark green - turtle shell
bright green - detergent
blue - halftones
different green on detergent bottle

nemesis7 wrote:i think you are correct regardless of the color of the shirt
white
grey
light green -turtle head and legs
dark green - turtle shell
bright green - detergent
blue - halftones
different green on detergent bottle

true. i also just realized that scyndan listed these ealier. i did miss the different green on the detergent bottle. that definitely isn't the same as the other 3 greens used. so, why hasn't this been rejected yet? if we're wrong, ramy, can you please give us a list of your colors? thanks.

k8edid3 wrote:true. i also just realized that scyndan listed these ealier. i did miss the different green on the detergent bottle. that definitely isn't the same as the other 3 greens used. so, why hasn't this been rejected yet? if we're wrong, ramy, can you please give us a list of your colors? thanks.

Yeah.

I think the black we're potentially seeing is just an artifact created by the way jpegs "blur" things when they create the image. But the detergent label is definitely a different color. Even if that's a mistake, it's unfair to misrepresent the shirt in the comp.

Re: Experimental Fail

Normally I'm a big ramyb fan, but I have to jump on board with everyone who disapproves of this shirt.

First off, and it may just be my eyes or my computer, but are those graphics microscopic? I have no idea what the label on the bottle says, and I doubt someone else would be able to read it unless they were literally less than a foot in front of me.

Secondly, until I got the TMNT reference, I just thought this was in bad taste... and I'm a fairly big Ninja Turtle fan. Most people, I fear, aren't going to get the joke, and I don't want to walk around with a shirt whose focus is adorable, but dead, turtles.

Out on a huuuuge limb here, but the experiment could be in reference to the CDC report on turtles carrying salmonella, and bleach being a disinfectant.

CDC Report

posegate wrote:Out on a huuuuge limb here, but the experiment could be in reference to the CDC report on turtles carrying salmonella, and bleach being a disinfectant.

CDC Report

Yeah, that would be a pretty huge limb, especially since the artist already said it was specifically about TMNT. Plus the detergent was added later...it was originally a poison bottle.

ramyb wrote:thanks

As for it not being middle school material, I have never heard of teachers screening science fair projects before they are done. When I was in school, it was a surprise what your project was until the day you presented. This would obviously not fly from the perspective of a teacher, but for a student trying it and thinking it might work, this could totally happen. If we are looking at the end result and saying that's the reason it is not science fair material, then most of the fogged entries (which have already been defended by tgentry) should also be rejected for the same reason.

Though I do enjoy this shirt and haters gonna hate, I have to agree that all the school fairs I took part in required teacher approval before the testing began. Also, there is a rule in science fair that you cannot use vertebrate animals. However, for the purposes of this derby I don't see that as a real problem unless we are being totally serious about the topic, and when has woot been known for that?! Besides, if we are taking it so seriously then several other shirts should be disqualified for their unrealistic nature - potato mutants, frankensteins, cat landings, chocolate attacks, etc. So, go on with your bad self.

morleyt2009 wrote:Though I do enjoy this shirt and haters gonna hate, I have to agree that all the school fairs I took part in required teacher approval before the testing began. Also, there is a rule in science fair that you cannot use vertebrate animals. However, for the purposes of this derby I don't see that as a real problem unless we are being totally serious about the topic, and when has woot been known for that?! Besides, if we are taking it so seriously then several other shirts should be disqualified for their unrealistic nature - potato mutants, frankensteins, cat landings, chocolate attacks, etc. So, go on with your bad self.

Might just depend on the school. I brought my dog in for a science fair when I was little, never had to tell them ahead of time. The person my "experiment" was based on was Ivan Pavlov.

nemesis7 wrote:i think you are correct regardless of the color of the shirt
white
grey
light green -turtle head and legs
dark green - turtle shell
bright green - detergent
blue - halftones
different green on detergent bottle

There are definitely 7 colors here, not including the possibility of black having been used.

So why is this still not rejected?

Re: Experimental Fail

This shirt is both funny but also makes me sad for the poor turtles.

I think you should have gone with antifreeze, break fluid, or some other auto fluid that might commonly be found in a garage, since they tend to have those unusual colors where detergent doesn't.

I think this fits theme and agree with your comment (i believe on the rejected ver) that this is more plausibly a middle school or lower lvl experiment from a child who believes it may happen rather than an adult.

sTyLeS wrote:Yeah, that would be a pretty huge limb, especially since the artist already said it was specifically about TMNT. Plus the detergent was added later...it was originally a poison bottle.

not to mention the mini weapons hanging in the cage

mawkish wrote:There are definitely 7 colors here, not including the possibility of black having been used.

So why is this still not rejected?

Here we go again...

Re: Experimental Fail

I for one will buy one if it wins. I think people read to much into it. What are we gonna start censoring Warner Brothers cartoons because those guys have been depicting animals getting killed since they could draw. Death is a natural part of life, it's not always pretty, fair or just it just is! I like Ramy's stuff and will continue to support him. Really people think about it!

ramyb wrote:I'm extremely confused by the initial rejection, and especially by the defense of other designs in the fog, but here is this design again. I thought that the concept was extremely clear the first time, but now I changed the bottle and specifically labeled it as detergent with bleach so there can be no question about what is going on in this design. I am also a little bit offended as a scientist that anyone would think this is a higher level experiment. We don't just dump chemicals on animals. This was clearly done with negligence and with no scientific method involved whatsoever, which is exactly what I would expect to see from the majority of students in a middle school science fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented and voted the first time around, hopefully you still like the design.

Don't feed the trolls ramyb, it's a good shirt and I'm not sure why all these people are herp derping on it but let the shirt speak for itself anyone who take the shirt for more than it's intended reference are just being Jatravartid. Let the shirt speak for itself. =) I'd be down for one.

Re: Experimental Fail

How did this design not make it into the fog??? Yet "Sky in a jar" made it. Is "sky in a jar" a thing? It has been many years since I was a kid doing a science fair project. Is some dumb thing in a jar a legitimate science fair entry.

And the Bonsai trees, what gives??? Just because you put them in a test tube to make it science fair-ish, doesn't make it exciting.

And lest we forget the "Spectrum." Isn't that just a rip off of the Pink Floyd- Dark Side of the Moon album cover? I understand that Pink Floyd didn't invent the prism, let alone the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, they just used almost the exact same image, without the rainbow becoming a tree.

Re: Experimental Fail

I like this desing WITHOUT the bottle of bleach! its hilarious and subtle enough

mrwednesday wrote:I'm not I'm following exactly what you've been convinced of but as someone who is a scientist the initial rejection was correct. Part of the requirements for funding agencies and departments is outreach into the community and as a result I have spent a fair amount of time coordinating and presenting for science clubs in our local area.

Any sort of mutation project is well beyond the reach of middle schoolers and junior high even into high school. What isn't beyond middle schoolers is that if you pour bleach on animals they die. The shirt is a poorly shoehorned attempt at a TMNT reference which has absolutely no basis in the theme.

With all of the controversy regarding ethical use of animals, there is no possibility even at the middle school level that kids are taking animals in the attempt to "do stuff to them." It's not responsible and it's not something that should be profited off of as a joke.

It's irresponsible and unethical and the fact that it would be allowed is personally insulting especially given the great lengths that everyone in science from the top down has to go through to ensure that animals are used in responsible ways.

As a biologist, I think you should lighten up.

cmk01 wrote:How did this design not make it into the fog??? Yet "Sky in a jar" made it. Is "sky in a jar" a thing? It has been many years since I was a kid doing a science fair project. Is some dumb thing in a jar a legitimate science fair entry.

Yep, "Sky in a Jar" is a real experiment. A simple google search will tell you that, and the artist even included a link to it in the first post of that design's thread.

cmk01 wrote:And lest we forget the "Spectrum." Isn't that just a rip off of the Pink Floyd- Dark Side of the Moon album cover? I understand that Pink Floyd didn't invent the prism, let alone the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, they just used almost the exact same image, without the rainbow becoming a tree.

cmk01 wrote:And lest we forget the "Spectrum." Isn't that just a rip off of the Pink Floyd- Dark Side of the Moon album cover? I understand that Pink Floyd didn't invent the prism, let alone the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, they just used almost the exact same image, without the rainbow becoming a tree.

Who would have guessed that awful submission is the same artist as this gem. The reason it is fogged is the same reason this thing is fogged, he has a rabid following. His third submission in the fog is actually pretty good in my opinion though. Man has talent, but seems to hate to use it. Sad really.

Re: Experimental Fail

You guys should all chill out. It's a tee shirt competition.

Re: Experimental Fail

I thought about posting something clever and logical and then defending my position like so many others before me, but then I realized no one listens to angry people on the internet. We just laugh at them.

So here's this:
RamyB, I love your work. You are a very talented artist and I'm glad you don't let pissy people keep you from continuing to submit your art. I've noticed that it seems that when someone does really well on here, people start turning on them like they did with BassAnimation with her Mirai shirt (which I'm wearing right now and love). I think it's a shame.

I do however second the notion that you branch out in styles. I think you do the cute stuff well, but are too talented to do just that. Since half my tshirts are of RamyB penguims, at this point I'm more likely to buy the Spectrum or Minor Modifications one than this one, even though I think it's funny and am not 4yrs old and offended at images of dead turtles.

Ryuzaki wrote:I'm glad you don't let pissy people keep you from continuing to submit your art. I've noticed that it seems that when someone does really well on here, people start turning on them like they did with BassAnimation with her Mirai shirt (which I'm wearing right now and love). I think it's a shame.

Oh no you don't, Ramy was "hated on" before he started printing here every other week, and has been (justifiably)for a long time and on other sites before this. He's been rehashing the same nonsense here over and over for years.

As for Bassanimation, aside from a little drama when she first arrived I think it's safe to say she's pretty universally praised and respected around here now. She's earned that over time. 1 guy had a cow in her Mirai entry about the Japan thing being a gimmick and wouldn't let it go, that's not the entire community turning on her for being successful! Hell Mirai didn't even come close to winning the derby, it was selected by the sponsor for being so awesome.

The "UR JUST JEALOUS OF RAMYB" defense is utter bunk, most of the successful regular artists around here are well liked because they aren't pandering hacks.

Re: Experimental Fail

JEEZ.
I like it, personally.
It's an obvious TMNT reference (which made more sense with the skull and crossbones radiactive liquid, but still) and though it's kinda dark, it's still funny.
It's some kid who wanted to test if ordinary turtles would mutate if he poured stuff on them.
Settle down, people.

Re: Experimental Fail

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Matt/kids-just-like-killing-things.png

I really don't even know why you thought you had an original idea w/this shirt. It's been done on shirts here and it's been joked about for quite awhile.

mrwednesday wrote:I'm not I'm following exactly what you've been convinced of but as someone who is a scientist the initial rejection was correct. Part of the requirements for funding agencies and departments is outreach into the community and as a result I have spent a fair amount of time coordinating and presenting for science clubs in our local area.

Any sort of mutation project is well beyond the reach of middle schoolers and junior high even into high school. What isn't beyond middle schoolers is that if you pour bleach on animals they die. The shirt is a poorly shoehorned attempt at a TMNT reference which has absolutely no basis in the theme.

With all of the controversy regarding ethical use of animals, there is no possibility even at the middle school level that kids are taking animals in the attempt to "do stuff to them." It's not responsible and it's not something that should be profited off of as a joke.

It's irresponsible and unethical and the fact that it would be allowed is personally insulting especially given the great lengths that everyone in science from the top down has to go through to ensure that animals are used in responsible ways.

Dude, do you KNOW any middle-schoolers? I work with a bunch of them in an after-school program, and let me tell ya, this is definitely something several of them would try. If their parents/teachers stopped them doing it for the science fair, they would just try it on their own - go out into the woods, find eight turtles, and get to work.

Your principles and scientific ethics are great, but the average middle-school student doesn't give a hill o' beans.

Speaking as an educator, between neglectful/indifferent parents and teachers, experiments like this can and have been submitted. What I can't believe is that people are debating the legitimacy of this as a project as a basis for the legitimacy of this shirt as a submission.

Since when was shirt.woot ever about reality or realistic standards?

And to those complaining about this being "yet another cutesy ramyb" shirt, sour grapes. Cute wins, cute sells. I'm sorry your favorite conceptualized deep dark emo expression of a tree dying in silhouette didn't make it, again.

jzlosman wrote:It started as a comic in the mid-80s. Followed by 4 TV series, 4 films, and are you ready for this...21 video games. How can you try to make a case that TMNT is not a video game. The origin media is irrelevant.

BECAUSE Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was first and foremost a GRAPHIC NOVEL - for those not familiar with them, they were gory/sexualized/gritty comics. I'm pretty sure Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird would be adamant about the fct that their creation started as a GRAPHIC NOVEL and not a worthless compilation of forgettable video games. It doesn't matter what it is NOW, as it's origis are what it was, is and will be.

Plus you all should find something more important to do with your time, who cares if he makes a shirt that offends, just don't vote or buy... sheesh.

For the record, I'd probably have bought one, as I think the idea is pretty neat.