Derby #226: Math in Nature
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Replicating Pattern

Replicating Pattern
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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb

Synelia


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Synelia
Re: Replicating Pattern


I like it except for the small DNA in the middle of the shirt. It's bugging me of why it is there within the DNA.

csl312


quality posts: 4 Private Messages csl312
Synelia wrote:I like it except for the small DNA in the middle of the shirt. It's bugging me of why it is there within the DNA.


If you look, there is another strand in the same position on that second one. I would guess it is part of the fractal theme to the image.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy

Really? REALLY?

Stop insulting us.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
palookaboy wrote:Really? REALLY?

Stop insulting us.


Beyond that, I'd like an explanation of what this has to do with mathematics. Just because you slap something "sciency" on a shirt doesn't mean it illustrates a mathematical concept.

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
mrwednesday wrote:Beyond that, I'd like an explanation of what this has to do with mathematics. Just because you slap something "sciency" on a shirt doesn't mean it illustrates a mathematical concept.


I foresee him claiming a fractal.

wolfgaidin


quality posts: 1 Private Messages wolfgaidin
mrwednesday wrote:Beyond that, I'd like an explanation of what this has to do with mathematics. Just because you slap something "sciency" on a shirt doesn't mean it illustrates a mathematical concept.


While generally a Ramyb supporter, as he just follows the laws of capitalism that woot permits, I can't say I like this.

Firstly because it is so similar to not only other people's shirt designs that exist elsewhere, but to not one, but two of his own designs. I find this both lazy and uninspired.

Secondly, the graphical representation of DNA does not bring to mind "math in nature".

spinachwrap


quality posts: 0 Private Messages spinachwrap
Re: Replicating Pattern

Speaking as a biologist: We don't generally do math with DNA as pictured here* and it has little (nothing? I don't specialize in genetics) to do with fractals.


* Not math that's common knowledge, anyway, other than genotypes and probability (Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium, crosses...). You could argue for significant differences between sequences or quantitative genetics or something, but that doesn't come to mind from this.

logicalcupcake


quality posts: 5 Private Messages logicalcupcake
Re: Replicating Pattern


While DNA could be the "in nature" the rules refer to, I don't see how slapping a fractal on the design makes it "Math in Nature." DNA has absolutely nothing to do with fractals. You might as well just have a turbunguin with a 1+1=2 in small print at the bottom.

asmadasrabbits


quality posts: 3 Private Messages asmadasrabbits
Re: Replicating Pattern


Your creativity is astounding. Another vote from me.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
spinachwrap wrote:Speaking as a biologist: We don't generally do math with DNA as pictured here* and it has little (nothing? I don't specialize in genetics) to do with fractals.


* Not math that's common knowledge, anyway, other than genotypes and probability (Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium, crosses...). You could argue for significant differences between sequences or quantitative genetics or something, but that doesn't come to mind from this.


I do specialize in genetics, specifically quantitative genetics, and there are absolutely no mathematical concepts that this evokes. You can't have Hardy Weinberg without a population. I see none. There are no mathematical constants associated with DNA stability or binding energy between strands because it depends entirely on the amino acid residues in a given strand. This is like drawing any random object, say a cute bunny, on the ground and saying it represents gravity.

sphereswithears


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sphereswithears
mrwednesday wrote:I do specialize in genetics, specifically quantitative genetics, and there are absolutely no mathematical concepts that this evokes. You can't have Hardy Weinberg without a population. I see none. There are no mathematical constants associated with DNA stability or binding energy between strands because it depends entirely on the amino acid residues in a given strand. This is like drawing any random object, say a cute bunny, on the ground and saying it represents gravity.


Well, in theory, DNA has a parallel structure and specific ratios of purines to pyrimidines. I know, that is kinda fishing, but it's something.

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
asmadasrabbits wrote:Your creativity is astounding. Another vote from me.


LOL! Are you sure you know what creativity means?

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
sphereswithears wrote:Well, in theory, DNA has a parallel structure and specific ratios of purines to pyrimidines. I know, that is kinda fishing, but it's something.


Exactly. You have to fish for something because it isn't illustrated. You can convince yourself that there's math in anything. If woot goes that route everything is on topic.

rdaniel3383


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rdaniel3383
mrwednesday wrote:Beyond that, I'd like an explanation of what this has to do with mathematics. Just because you slap something "sciency" on a shirt doesn't mean it illustrates a mathematical concept.


Great comment! I concur!

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
Re: Replicating Pattern


"Show us your takes on Fibonacci numbers, fractals, golden ratios, and the like."

I think Ramy has a good defense against rejection. Whether or not DNA actually is fractal in nature, he has represented it as such.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
HeartlineTwist wrote:"Show us your takes on Fibonacci numbers, fractals, golden ratios, and the like."

I think Ramy has a good defense against rejection. Whether or not DNA actually is fractal in nature, he has represented it as such.


It's not fractal in any way shape or form. And no he didn't represent it that way. He just drew a fractal behind it. I also don't think "just drawing a fractal design behind any old thing" should make it on topic.

smklung


quality posts: 9 Private Messages smklung
Re: Replicating Pattern


Ti be honest this design is way more interesting than your other submissions, yet I don't know if that's saying much.

Randyotter


quality posts: 10 Private Messages Randyotter
Re: Replicating Pattern


Looks like a free photoshop brush download

spinachwrap


quality posts: 0 Private Messages spinachwrap
mrwednesday wrote:I do specialize in genetics, specifically quantitative genetics, and there are absolutely no mathematical concepts that this evokes. You can't have Hardy Weinberg without a population. I see none. There are no mathematical constants associated with DNA stability or binding energy between strands because it depends entirely on the amino acid residues in a given strand. This is like drawing any random object, say a cute bunny, on the ground and saying it represents gravity.


Ah, good. I wanted to be cautious just in case you guys were doing things with fractals while I played with fish hormones.

And I agree entirely.

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
mrwednesday wrote:It's not fractal in any way shape or form. And no he didn't represent it that way. He just drew a fractal behind it. I also don't think "just drawing a fractal design behind any old thing" should make it on topic.


"A fractal has been defined as "a rough or fragmented geometric shape that can be split into parts, each of which is (at least approximately) a reduced-size copy of the whole,"[1] a property called self-similarity."

The center strand of the larger DNA is its own DNA strand and the center strand of THAT DNA is its own smaller strand of DNA, although the detail at that point is entirely lost.

I will agree that that's not how DNA actually exists to my knowledge, but that seems to represent a fractal independent of the fractal slapped in the background.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 231 Private Messages kylemittskus
HeartlineTwist wrote:I will agree that that's not how DNA actually exists to my knowledge, but that seems to represent a fractal independent of the fractal slapped in the background.


You make your own counter argument. The fractal randomly slapped in the background has nothing to do with the proposed fractal that you're describing in DNA.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

Jessara


quality posts: 7 Private Messages Jessara
Re: Replicating Pattern


In some other universe, or future, perfectly designed beings scrunch up their faces in horror at the idea of organisms with non-symmetric DNA, semi-random assemblages of amino acids with lots of errors.

bjmantis


quality posts: 1 Private Messages bjmantis
Re: Replicating Pattern


I work in a genetics lab. I'd buy at least one!

HeartlineTwist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages HeartlineTwist
kylemittskus wrote:You make your own counter argument. The fractal randomly slapped in the background has nothing to do with the proposed fractal that you're describing in DNA.


He represents the DNA fractally in the design.
He also has a completely unrelated, non-sequitur fractal in the background.

I don't make my own counterargument. The design would still feature a fractal (albeit a scientifically inaccurate one) if the background weren't there at all.

mattlussier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mattlussier
Re: Replicating Pattern


definitely digging this one over fractal winter...




rachina


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rachina

Wow. This really is a stunning shirt. I really like the way the background fractal looks like it's glowing and the subtle little extra bits in the backgorund that you only notice when you look a second time. A beautiful design, RamyB. In fact, I like all of your shirts this derby. They're all really stylish. I like your cute animals too, but these are simply breathtaking. One thing I don't understand is why people hate your cute designs and tell you to do something stylish and original and then when you do something like this they hate it. I understand that some people who know about DNA don't like this shirt. Myself I love science and things. But really, who is going to come up to you and stare at your chest carefully reading the bits and pieces in the background. lovely design RamyB. My congratulations

ChaosDoctor07


quality posts: 9 Private Messages ChaosDoctor07
rachina wrote:Wow. This really is a stunning shirt. I really like the way the background fractal looks like it's glowing and the subtle little extra bits in the backgorund that you only notice when you look a second time. A beautiful design, RamyB. In fact, I like all of your shirts this derby. They're all really stylish. I like your cute animals too, but these are simply breathtaking. One thing I don't understand is why people hate your cute designs and tell you to do something stylish and original and then when you do something like this they hate it. I understand that some people who know about DNA don't like this shirt. Myself I love science and things. But really, who is going to come up to you and stare at your chest carefully reading the bits and pieces in the background. lovely design RamyB. My congratulations


The problem with that statement is that you assume that this design is particularly original; doing two entries with fractals in the same Derby and having done a number of DNA entries (often shoehorned into the theme, for that matter) in the past hardly qualifies as original.

"Don't believe´╗┐ in the you who believes in me. Don't believe in the me who believes in you. Believe in the you who believes in yourself."

teacookie


quality posts: 4 Private Messages teacookie
Re: Replicating Pattern


I don't care about the design. I'm just enjoying all your comments it's like a debate but without the finace backing of the corperate world.

jmf1081


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jmf1081
mrwednesday wrote:Beyond that, I'd like an explanation of what this has to do with mathematics. Just because you slap something "sciency" on a shirt doesn't mean it illustrates a mathematical concept.


It would seem like many shirts in this derby just put some numbers on a shirt next to an animal and call it math in nature. Or an animal doing something with numbers. I saw one design that added 2 rainbows together to equal One More Gimlet. That is not really math either.
And this is not the only DNA shirt in this derby.

ClaudiaM


quality posts: 4 Private Messages ClaudiaM
Re: Replicating Pattern


I'd say, not that I'm a ramyb fan, that the fractal connection is conceptual and depends on the t-shirt title, which is not something you can see in the design. DNA is certainly a Replicating Pattern, and in a different sense than fractals are.

I don't mind ramyb reusing a design until it wins if it has aesthetic appeal, which this one does. I just don't want it to beat out worthier shirts, so I'n glad it's out of the fog.

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