Derby #239: The Year You Were Born: Redux!

1989: Insanity

We can't run this

Rejected because: We can't run this

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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: 1989: Insanity


Ok, a little less ambiguity now :P Trying to find a delicate balance. I hope that woot won't find this to be an issue anymore, he doesn't even have bat ears anymore and the silhouette is broken up- I think this way the shapes are implied enough that they are understandable without stepping over any copyright lines. I don't think the joker's face was an issue in the first place either. Anyway, sorry to keep reposting, hope you guys like it.

zombienerd


quality posts: 0 Private Messages zombienerd

So it's an implied Batman that's not really Batman? Why not just come up with a new idea or take a week off instead of almost-but-not-really break copyright? Maybe this 3rd time'll be a charm.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
Re: 1989: Insanity


It's still just Batman. No comment. No transformation. No satire. Most importantly, no fair use. You can't just draw someone else's IP and sell it because you want to. Even woot knows that.

juliaL719


quality posts: 0 Private Messages juliaL719
Re: 1989: Insanity


But it's STILL BATMAN.

specsmachine


quality posts: 31 Private Messages specsmachine

After having to remove Nathan Pyle's "Dark Knight" I can understand why woot would be a little gun-shy about printing another Batman design, especially so soon after the incident. DC lawyers are probably watching this website like a hawk.

That being said, this definitely would benefit from glow-in-the-dark ink.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
Re: 1989: Insanity

Sorry for your loss, man.

move along

tarmawolf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tarmawolf
juliaL719 wrote:But it's STILL BATMAN.


Yep. It's still Batman. Take some time off and come up with something original.

usopp


quality posts: 0 Private Messages usopp
Re: 1989: Insanity

i just looked up that "dark knight" shirt. wow. that got the website in hot water. you'd think that was suttle enough. ya, sorry to say there's no way they're gonna let this one through. it is nice though.

shikausstan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages shikausstan
Re: 1989: Insanity


I like the shirt, don't get me wrong but I think it is my least favorite of the ones that you have done recently, and it is probably doomed for rejection...

krodo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages krodo

subtle

benjaminleebates


quality posts: 5 Private Messages benjaminleebates
Re: 1989: Insanity


Nice looking shirt. I haven't been around for a while, but I must say, it's very nice to see a different design than your typical shirts that pay the bills.
Even if it doesn't print, keep up the effort! Growth is worth it.

deaaqua


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deaaqua
Re: 1989: Insanity


I'm surprised at all the hate and immaturity in these comments. You kids need to grow up, you're ruining the fun that is woot. Sure, this shirt may break the rules and that's bad, but the insults about the artist are totally unnecessary. You're hating on him because he's the most popular artist here, which is just ridiculous of you, this isn't high school. If you don't like his work then simply don't vote for it. No need to be rude and insulting. But in reality we all love his work and we all vote for it, which is why he is ALWAYS in the fog and constantly getting shirts printed.

How about the artist keeps doing his thing and YOU guys take a week off of commenting. Maybe it'll give you time to get over your petty jealously and insistent need to complain about everything.

As for the actual shirt, it's a great image, very well done. However, I can see it still getting into trouble, even with the edits.

tarmawolf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tarmawolf
deaaqua wrote:I'm surprised at all the hate and immaturity in these comments. You kids need to grow up, you're ruining the fun that is woot. Sure, this shirt may break the rules and that's bad, but the insults about the artist are totally unnecessary. You're hating on him because he's the most popular artist here, which is just ridiculous of you, this isn't high school. If you don't like his work then simply don't vote for it. No need to be rude and insulting. But in reality we all love his work and we all vote for it, which is why he is ALWAYS in the fog and constantly getting shirts printed.

How about the artist keeps doing his thing and YOU guys take a week off of commenting. Maybe it'll give you time to get over your petty jealously and insistent need to complain about everything.

As for the actual shirt, it's a great image, very well done. However, I can see it still getting into trouble, even with the edits.


There's no "fun" if an "artist" is taking legitimate work from someone else and recycling it as their own work. That's wrong and unoriginal, period. There are plenty of ways to create an homage to Batman without making it look like a straight comic book cover rip off.

It has nothing to do with the so-called popularity of the artist. I don't know ramyb from Adam. And no, it's not "reality" that all of us love him. Personally, I've seen one shirt design of his that I liked. The rest is less than impressive, honestly. But that's just my opinion, and we all know what opinions are like.

anemality


quality posts: 12 Private Messages anemality
deaaqua wrote:You're hating on him because he's the most popular artist here.


Stop that.

deaaqua wrote:ALWAYS


...I wanna be with you, make believe with you, and live in harmony, harmony, oh, ohhhh.

deaaqua wrote:Maybe it'll give you time to get over your petty jealously


And stop that, too.

No matter what one's opinion on Ramy is (I congratulate him for his success and his ability to market to his audience), pulling the 'YOU JES JEALOUS' card when someone brings forth criticism, even biting criticism, is just as, if not more childish and immature. One can dislike something for numerous reasons.

I also doubt the people who don't submit designs at all are THAT jealous of, er...Ramy having designs print? ;)

agenthelix


quality posts: 0 Private Messages agenthelix
Re: 1989: Insanity


Besides just being a picture of Batman, which really is opening the site to a whole world of litigation since it's a for-profit enterprise, this design doesn't even really have much to do with the topic at hand.

Yes, Burton's Batman came out in 1989, but this image doesn't seem informed by that version of the character in any meaningful way. It's just a picture of Batman, as generic as possible, with nothing that would really clue a viewer in to the fact that it's meant to be an homage to the particular year that Batman was released in theaters.

zombienerd


quality posts: 0 Private Messages zombienerd

RE:deaaqua

>>I'm surprised at all the hate and immaturity in these comments.

You mean not everyone is offering buttpats and kisses? People have opinions and offer some criticism? Considering the derby is for profit, not just fun, criticism from a potential buyer is more relevant here than D'AWW THIS IS SOOOOO PRETTY Oh My Gookie! I WUV UUUU.


>>You kids need to grow up, you're ruining the fun that is woot.

It's not just fun. When a single artist can pull thousands of money every single week from a contest and they do it virtually every week, it's a job.

>>Sure, this shirt may break the rules and that's bad

EXACTLY. So what's good to say about it when it's blatantly breaking the rules and law? Why are you whiteknighting IP theft in a contest that could pay out so well?

>>You're hating on him because he's the most popular artist here, which is just ridiculous of you, this isn't high school.

OH no you didn't just pull U JES JEALOUSSSS. I don't submit art here. I'm not an artist, I'm a paying customer. I can have an opinion and it means more than some kid flailing around that IT'S NOT FAAAAAIR to be a meaniepoo and call someone on blatant theft. I also don't want to see the same freaking artist take 1st place every single week, whether or not the art merits it or not. People are voting for him because of his name and not the content.

>>If you don't like his work then simply don't vote for it.

I'm not voting on it. But the problem is that people ARE voting on it despite the theft. And that this submission is still here despite theft.

>>No need to be rude and insulting.

STOP STEALING Potty Emergency! is not rude or insulting. It's common sense.

>>But in reality we all love his work and we all vote for it, which is why he is ALWAYS in the fog and constantly getting shirts printed.

We love his work? NOPE. I don't. It's too simple, there's no artistic merit in his cookie cutter designs, and the only reason it gets votes from people not in his thrall is because he banks in on other people's IP. Zelda, Star Wars, Batman, something else made famous by the original creators. It's rare to see him submit a design that's not riding on someone else's thunder. He's profiting off of the creation of other people and it's that's bad.

>>How about the artist keeps doing his thing and YOU guys take a week off of commenting. Maybe it'll give you time to get over your petty jealously and insistent need to complain about everything.

Nope. I'm a customer, I have every right to offer feedback. Not every comment has to be BEST SHIRT EVAR.

>>As for the actual shirt, it's a great image, very well done. However, I can see it still getting into trouble, even with the edits.

No it's not. He had to butcher it and make it not-really-look-like-Batman to submit it at all. It's still blatant theft. There's no artistic merit in that and nothing to be proud of when it comes to stealing another's character and design.

DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 112 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
zombienerd wrote: You mean not everyone is offering buttpats and kisses? People have opinions and offer some criticism? Considering the derby is for profit, not just fun, criticism from a potential buyer is more relevant here than D'AWW THIS IS SOOOOO PRETTY Oh My Gookie! I WUV UUUU.


They probably also meant the comments that woot has deleted twice that were just attacks on the artist and not actually opinions on the shirt and its merit or lack there of.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy

The really disappointing thing is that Ramy has had a pretty good streak of well-done, on-theme, rule-abiding designs. I'll admit I think the design itself is pretty cool. While technically it's on-theme, it's only barely so. This would be a more appropriate subject for an artist 50 years older than Ramy. And the obvious use of IP. There's no spin on Batman here: it's just Batman. Putting a few scratches in the ears doesn't change that.

jsee1218


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jsee1218
Re: 1989: Insanity


even though this is still recognizably batman, i like the design. it's dark and haunting. the glow and color of the moon are beautiful. i can see this one being rejected because of the whole batman thing, but i'm still happy ramyb decided to share it with us. i hope the other people who have commented on this design recognize that ramyb seems to put a lot of character into his designs (and no, i'm not part of the so-called "ramyb fan club". i don't even look at the designers names when i vote. i vote for the designs i would like to wear regardless of who designed it). ramyb says in his first comment that he has been dealing with some loss this week, and based on the darkness and character in this design, i can definitely believe it.

deaaqua


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deaaqua
DianaSprinkle wrote:They probably also meant the comments that woot has deleted twice that were just attacks on the artist and not actually opinions on the shirt and its merit or lack there of.


Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about.

I adore art and if you have artistic criticisms then go right ahead and let them be heard. I would never ask someone to bite their tongue and just say nice things only. If you have issues with a shirt or theft then by all means, speak up. The comments I was talking about, which are no longer here, were incredibly rude and insulting to the artist, not his shirt. There was no mention of the shirt in their comments. They were flat out childish, it was name calling and other nonsense. When I see comments like that on a popular artist's submission I automatically assume that they're childish attention whores jealous of someone else.

Leaving negative feedback is fine with me, I have no issues with it as long as you are intelligent and mature about it. Many of you have made it clear that you don't like the artist's style and choices, and you have valid points. I may not agree with everything you say, but I respect your opinion. It's when people start acting crude and saying totally rude pointless things that I get annoyed. I mean, this isn't 4chan. This a fun site full of all kinds of awesome - I love the hilarious personalities, just not the trashy ones.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: 1989: Insanity


Sorry that I wasn't able to respond to comments on this design earlier, it's been a crazy weekend.

I just wanted to express my thoughts on a couple of things that were mentioned- I know this comment will not satisfy most people, but I figured I might as well explain my reasoning behind the design, etc.

So the first thing is the comments about being on or off topic. Given the success of this movie in its year, I thought it was a legitimate choice for the topic despite the fact that Batman himself predates it.

The visual I tried to create with this design is about seeing things in the shadows- the shapes on the moon are supposed to represent the silhouette of the joker's face, but perhaps I was either too subtle or just generally unsuccessful in creating that visual. The trees are growing in all directions, and I wanted sort of a general sense of chaos to be apparent. I think the mood of the design is representative of the film it pays homage to.

I didn't mean for it to be just a picture of batman, but can see now in hindsight the mistakes I made in creating this design. Despite this, and regardless of whether or not it gets rejected, it is still a piece of artwork that I created and I think it is pretty different from other things that I have done, and I'm glad I shared it. I worked on this design during a difficult day, and honestly wasn't thinking about IP or anything of that sort. I usually try to be careful not to overstep the line with my designs, but with this one I just had a visual I wanted to create and did it, and I figured I would let woot and its lawyers decide if it was acceptable. I didn't have the time, energy, or interest in creating another design, so I didn't. In a lot of ways, this was a week off from woot for me even though I made an entry. My design was here, but my mind was certainly elsewhere. I'm sorry to the people who are disappointed, I am thankful to the people who enjoyed the design and defended me, and will try to bring my full attention and A-game back next week.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 564 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

Re: 1989: Insanity

I'm going to caution people again to keep comments focused on the art and not the artist. There are many examples of how to give constructive criticism should you need assistance.



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petrosrex


quality posts: 1 Private Messages petrosrex
ThunderThighs wrote:I'm going to caution people again to keep comments focused on the art and not the artist. There are many examples of how to give constructive criticism should you need assistance.


*steps onto soapbox*

Thank you, ThunderThighs. This entry was lacking a sheriff (or mod, whichever you prefer).

I just wanted to say that I love the design. I enjoy seeing what you come up with from week to week. I did not see the joker face on the moon (and still not sure if I have seen it). It is a dark and beautiful design and would love a print of this.

That being said, I don't see this getting printed due to IP and copyright issues. A lot of shirts lately have skirted that legal/illegal line in order to appeal to a specific subset of woot!ers. I personally miss the originality of earlier prints, e.g. not direct copies of memes, cultural references, etc. Not that I don't love pop culture references, It's just that they are the majority of the shirts printed and the only ones to get the votes nowadays. I would hate to see an artist and/or woot served with a CDO because of a "copyright infringement."

*steps down from soapbox*

Yourkiddingright


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Yourkiddingright
Re: 1989: Insanity


Ruh Roh....



How exactly did you make the photo of the moon look like the Joker? The only thing I see is you pushed a couple of the photos pixels around with the liquify tool, blurred it and recolored.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Yourkiddingright wrote:How exactly did you make the photo of the moon look like the Joker? The only thing I see is you pushed a couple of the photos pixels around with the liquify tool, blurred it and recolored.


The entire moon was done using a simple textured brush technique with a couple of colors- I'm not sure what you are trying to match up with this photo here. And to answer your question, the shading of the moon has nothing to do with joker's face- it is the silhouettes against the moon that are supposed to create it.

fluttersby8


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fluttersby8

I don't understand how Woot can print this but not Midgerock's Lucy.

[snark]I mean, other than because of the designer, of course.[/snark]

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