Derby #246: Animals Re-Enact History
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Leonardo

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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: Leonardo


Saved

shikausstan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages shikausstan
Re: Leonardo


Just when I think I have all the tshirts I need.

cwarfield82


quality posts: 2 Private Messages cwarfield82
Re: Leonardo


I need this please and thanks

BaldDreds


quality posts: 0 Private Messages BaldDreds
Re: Leonardo


I like the concept, but it looks like he has nubs for legs

benjaminleebates


quality posts: 5 Private Messages benjaminleebates
Re: Leonardo


ahem, Leonardo da Vinci was a leftie.
Jus sayan...

mapinto


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mapinto

He was a leftie, you are correct!

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: Leonardo


I believe he was actually ambidextrous

aramis525


quality posts: 8 Private Messages aramis525
ramyb wrote:I believe he was actually ambidextrous


Yup!

mapinto


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mapinto
ramyb wrote:I believe he was actually ambidextrous


http://www.mos.org/sln/Leonardo/LeonardoRighttoLeft.html

shikausstan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages shikausstan
benjaminleebates wrote:ahem, Leonardo da Vinci was a leftie.
Jus sayan...


Maybe but Leonardo the turtle is not.

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
Re: Leonardo


where is the front left leg of the easel?

also the turtle on the stool appears to be more to the right of the easel and his pencil should be to the edge, not the middle of the picture its drawing as it is now positioned.

benjaminleebates


quality posts: 5 Private Messages benjaminleebates
shikausstan wrote:Maybe but Leonardo the turtle is not.


Then it would be copyright infringement, right?

hobosunday


quality posts: 7 Private Messages hobosunday
Re: Leonardo


Honestly, I don't know how you keep coming up with great concepts Ramyb, but don't sstop. I have yet to not vote for one of your designs, you're just too good at this!

jason16384


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jason16384
benjaminleebates wrote:Then it would be copyright infringement, right?


I think you mean trademark infringement. Assuming that the character is registered as a trademark....

newnie


quality posts: 2 Private Messages newnie
midgerock wrote:where is the front left leg of the easel?

First thing I thought as well...

4khaos


quality posts: 8 Private Messages 4khaos
midgerock wrote:where is the front left leg of the easel?

also the turtle on the stool appears to be more to the right of the easel and his pencil should be to the edge, not the middle of the picture its drawing as it is now positioned.

So true...

alex138


quality posts: 0 Private Messages alex138
Re: Leonardo


I was totally going to do Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel...but this is even better!

mightyrain


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mightyrain
Re: Leonardo



Clever Girl....

adamselby


quality posts: 2 Private Messages adamselby
midgerock wrote:where is the front left leg of the easel?

also the turtle on the stool appears to be more to the right of the easel and his pencil should be to the edge, not the middle of the picture its drawing as it is now positioned.


To be fair, I kind of expect these mistakes in Ramyb's designs at this point. Not to say the concepts are bad, just the artwork is rushed.

unsenuchiha


quality posts: 4 Private Messages unsenuchiha
shikausstan wrote:Just when I think I have all the tshirts I need.


You took the words right out of my mouth!

bluejester


quality posts: 564 Private Messages bluejester
Re: Leonardo


It's an clever concept, but I'll wait for the sequel: The Secret of the Missing Leg. I hear it's going to have more depth than the original and that the characters that needed more development are more fleshed out.

elankat


quality posts: 7 Private Messages elankat
Re: Leonardo


I guess I'm the only one disappointed to see that the Ramy submission is yet another TMNT shirt.

smklung


quality posts: 9 Private Messages smklung
Re: Leonardo


I can always see Ramyb design from miles away. (Hint: He's usually the one with rabbits, turtles or both.)

juliaL719


quality posts: 0 Private Messages juliaL719
elankat wrote:I guess I'm the only one disappointed to see that the Ramy submission is yet another TMNT shirt.


If you expect it, you need never be disappointed.

aerc712


quality posts: 4 Private Messages aerc712
elankat wrote:I guess I'm the only one disappointed to see that the Ramy submission is yet another TMNT shirt.


The theme was begging for a few TMNT entries.

smklung


quality posts: 9 Private Messages smklung
Re: Leonardo


I can always see Ramyb design from miles away. (Hint: He's usually the one with rabbits, turtles or both.)

wirdou


quality posts: 16 Private Messages wirdou

You nailed it again Great work :D

wehealthy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages wehealthy
Re: Leonardo


The turtles seem to be an endless source of success. You've experimented and killed them, morphed them together, stuffed them full of pizza and now you've transported them back in time.

Good stuff

krazykoz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages krazykoz
aerc712 wrote:The theme was begging for a few TMNT entries.


I guess I didn't interpret the derby as that. It said animals re-enact history. Not pop culture figures re-enact history.

palookaboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages palookaboy
krazykoz wrote:I guess I didn't interpret the derby as that. It said animals re-enact history. Not pop culture figures re-enact history.


This.

I think I'd be more okay with it if there was no mask. But overall, it's still just pandering.

foghammer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages foghammer
smklung wrote:I can always see Ramyb design from miles away. (Hint: He's usually the one with rabbits, turtles or both.)


I keep expecting (and dreading) the graphic depiction of how turbunguins are made...


skelleton


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skelleton
Re: Leonardo


The missing leg does bother me.. Otherwise love it.

VenusAD


quality posts: 8 Private Messages VenusAD
krazykoz wrote:I guess I didn't interpret the derby as that. It said animals re-enact history. Not pop culture figures re-enact history.


Yeah...that was pretty much my reaction.

And the fact that he's missing the rest of his leg...argh. Cannot wear this if that leg isn't fixed. I'll go insane. :/

foghammer


quality posts: 0 Private Messages foghammer
VenusAD wrote:Yeah...that was pretty much my reaction.

And the fact that he's missing the rest of his leg...argh. Cannot wear this if that leg isn't fixed. I'll go insane. :/


It explains why he's doing art. Shredder finally got lucky - took out half of one leg and all of the other.

What I want to know is how that easel is staying up...

imbolc


quality posts: 0 Private Messages imbolc
Re: Leonardo


I like it ! :D

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: Leonardo


Hey everyone Had an insanely busy few days and haven't had time to comment. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who voted for this design.

I also wanted to comment on the "missing" easel leg that so many people seem to be upset about. I intentionally left it out because I felt that it's exclusion provided better visual clarity. Not sure if any of you actually mapped out where the leg would go in the design, but I drew some diagrams to show what I mean.

In red, I drew where the front leg of the easel would go in the design:


Now, moving this behind the turtle and the stool, this is what would show through (still in red):


This last one is the same image, but changed to have the easel leg in brown:


The tiny fraction of the leg that would actually show through there simply ends up looking like an odd part of the stool on which the turtle is sitting. I don't think its removal hurts the design. This is merely my opinion on the matter and can understand that not everyone would feel the same way. I just felt I should address this, since a bunch of people were jumping to the "ramyb does sloppy designs" conclusion, and I really don't think that's the case. I have been working hard on my designs recently, and feel that I have upped my quality and variety pretty substantially.

I often make decisions in my designs based on what looks best to me rather than what makes the most sense. When mapping out 3 dimensional scene onto a 2 dimensional surface in a cartoon style, laying things out exactly as they would be in real life doesn't always yield the best results. In this case, I think the way the design is arranged makes for immediate understanding of what's going on, and highlights the features of the scene that I wanted to be most prominent.

Anyway, tl;dr I guess, and thanks again to those who are enjoying this design

ochopika


quality posts: 26 Private Messages ochopika

Staff

Re: Leonardo


Hi there, nice work and I can't blame you (too much) for making a ninja turtle... it's funny and it works.
I like the texture you used for the paper. It gives the design a little more variety. Did you use a texture brush or something else? Just curious

midgerock


quality posts: 6 Private Messages midgerock
ramyb wrote:'long distracting explanation which makes no sense'


So I read and saw your explanantion and wanted to test it out on my own but with using a grid. Sorry Ramyb, but your wrong. If we use a grid and line it up with the back legs and count out five blocks as the spacing in between the right side legs you'll see the front left leg would appear very visable as shown in the mock up below. also at the same time you see how off the turtle on the stool is and exists on its own plain and dimensions than the easel.

Your answer, which is quite wordy and makes it seem like you put all this thought into the layout of the design, is purely smoke and mirror bs. Its okay to fess up when someone catches with your pants down.

also where's the turle's legs/feet as well?


chumpmagic


quality posts: 9 Private Messages chumpmagic
ramyb wrote:


midgerock wrote:



There are a lot of issues with perspective in this design. It seems like every object has a different perspective. It is really all over the place; however, most of the issue will go unnoticed to the common viewer here, but I think the leg is a huge exception...

First off, YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT... technically. RamyB is using what is called isometric perspective to justify his case, meaning that he uses a 2 point perspective but he does not display depth by foreshortening elements in the distance. There is nothing wrong with that...

Here is a visual example of isometric perspective:



Midge is using more of a true 2 point perspective to justify his case. Just because midge's version is more accurate and realistic, does not mean it is right in the artist's world. However, I will say that I agree with MidgeRock more because I EXPECT to see the leg there (I don't think many can argue that). To me, no matter how accurate your drawing is, it still feels like it is missing; it still feels wrong... if that makes sense.

Well that my art lesson for the day. I hope you all enjoyed it


bluejester


quality posts: 564 Private Messages bluejester
Re: Leonardo


Okay, it was a bit difficult, but I may have found the missing leg.



In all seriousness though, Ramyb, you need to pull this design. For a design missing an entire leg, it sure sticks out like a sore thumb. Midge has done a decent job pointing out where the leg would logically fall, among the other flaws with the placement of the turtle. Ochopika is right that the paper effect looks cool. However, the other issues just are too much.

Maybe it was a late night. Maybe you were distracted with personal stuff, had a clever idea, but not the time to execute it properly in order to be the among the first to upload their designs. Maybe it was a simple mistake that you didn't notice until people on the forums were commenting, "Dude, ummm...where's the other leg?"

Whatever the reason, it's just not executed as well as it could be. People can spot your designs right off the bat anyway, so why not take a chance on fixing the problems, and see if a 2.0 version of this climbs up the fog? What's life with out it's share of risk? Isn't that part of the fun?

sunoki


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sunoki
Re: Leonardo


Man... I really want this one... so sad I cannot vote! This is awesome!

[url]http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=63240[/url/

bluejester


quality posts: 564 Private Messages bluejester
Re: Leonardo


I guess the other thing that bothers me is that I feel like I'm seeing 7 or 8 colors here. I thought the rules were 6?

Light green
Dark green
Light blue
Dark blue
White
Light Brown
Dark Brown
Black? (This might just be use of shirt color.)

It could just be half-tone stuff that I don't quite have as good a grasp on as I would like. Not trying to be a jerk here or display possible ignorance, I just feel like I'm seeeing too many colors.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
bluejester wrote:I guess the other thing that bothers me is that I feel like I'm seeing 7 or 8 colors here. I thought the rules were 6?

Light green
Dark green
Light blue
Dark blue
White
Light Brown
Dark Brown
Black? (This might just be use of shirt color.)

It could just be half-tone stuff that I don't quite have as good a grasp on as I would like. Not trying to be a jerk here or display possible ignorance, I just feel like I'm seeeing too many colors.


The design is, in fact, 6 colors- that's why I have a halftone closeup on the side

As for pulling the design, I have no interest in changing a design when I like it as-is. I have made edits to submissions in the past when I felt they were necessary, but I happen to like this design in its original form. Adding an easel leg there simply looks like an odd appendage on the stool to me, and I prefer the design without it. As for the turtle's legs, they wrap over the edge of the stool- I'm not sure where else they should be. I understand not everyone likes the execution, but it happens to have turned out pretty much the way I want it to.

citizencoyote


quality posts: 42 Private Messages citizencoyote
bluejester wrote:I guess the other thing that bothers me is that I feel like I'm seeing 7 or 8 colors here. I thought the rules were 6?

Light green
Dark green
Light blue
Dark blue
White
Light Brown
Dark Brown
Black? (This might just be use of shirt color.)

It could just be half-tone stuff that I don't quite have as good a grasp on as I would like. Not trying to be a jerk here or display possible ignorance, I just feel like I'm seeeing too many colors.


I would never expect Ramy to use more than six colors. Woot is a serious stickler for that particular rule, and Ramy is far too experienced to jeopardize an entry on such a technicality.

As for the whole perspective issue, I see it as sort of moot. Both Ramy and Midge offered good explanations. What bothers me more are the turtle's legs (or lack thereof). I guess he could be sitting cross-legged or have them drawn up, but given how long his arms are (and how people normally perch upon stools), his little nub legs are too distracting for me. Otherwise, it's cute.

bluejester


quality posts: 564 Private Messages bluejester
ramyb wrote:The design is, in fact, 6 colors- that's why I have a halftone closeup on the side

As for pulling the design, I have no interest in changing a design when I like it as-is. I have made edits to submissions in the past when I felt they were necessary, but I happen to like this design in its original form. Adding an easel leg there simply looks like an odd appendage on the stool to me, and I prefer the design without it. As for the turtle's legs, they wrap over the edge of the stool- I'm not sure where else they should be. I understand not everyone likes the execution, but it happens to have turned out pretty much the way I want it to.


I'll take your word for it on the half-tone close up, because I'm working off a very old crv monitor on my end, so thing don't always show up as well as they might on other people's monitors.

As far as the style choice on the legs, while I can see what you are getting at in so far as the perspective shot goes, I feel like Chumpmagic is right, for whatever reason, my eyes expect there to be a leg there. However, the perspective still feels off on the turtle and his reach to the easel.

Again, thanks though for clearing up the color issue.

magnusaltensiedler


quality posts: 0 Private Messages magnusaltensiedler
Re: Leonardo


It is well - do it

me

patrickrogan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages patrickrogan
Re: Leonardo


This is brilliant, I might actually buy this delicacy. Greatly done.

I'm the Rain in your Parade

profbrendan


quality posts: 7 Private Messages profbrendan
Re: Leonardo

Both Midge and Chump bring up legitimate points regarding perspective. Ramy, it's understandable to see by your diagram how you drew your layout and decided to drop the last leg for ease of visual communication. (Ha! "Ease". Geddit? 'Cause it's an...an easel...okay.) However this is also something that could've been solved just by moving the turtle over to the left a bit to allow room for that leg, thus avoiding any confusion with tangents. (For anyone unfamiliar with a tangent, it's when subjects in your composition conflict spatially in a way that looks bothersome. Read about them here or here.) If nothing else, chalk it up as something to remember in the future.

citizencoyote wrote:I would never expect Ramy to use more than six colors. Woot is a serious stickler for that particular rule, and Ramy is far too experienced to jeopardize an entry on such a technicality.

Actually, it has happened before, and to plenty of people too. Usually it's just a mistake or a placeholder color that wasn't adjusted before submitting.

leprechaungirl


quality posts: 2 Private Messages leprechaungirl
chumpmagic wrote:There are a lot of issues with perspective in this design. It seems like every object has a different perspective. It is really all over the place; however, most of the issue will go unnoticed to the common viewer here, but I think the leg is a huge exception...

First off, YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT... technically. RamyB is using what is called isometric perspective to justify his case, meaning that he uses a 2 point perspective but he does not display depth by foreshortening elements in the distance. There is nothing wrong with that...

Here is a visual example of isometric perspective:



Midge is using more of a true 2 point perspective to justify his case. Just because midge's version is more accurate and realistic, does not mean it is right in the artist's world. However, I will say that I agree with MidgeRock more because I EXPECT to see the leg there (I don't think many can argue that). To me, no matter how accurate your drawing is, it still feels like it is missing; it still feels wrong... if that makes sense.

Well that my art lesson for the day. I hope you all enjoyed it


I agree about the isometric perspective (I would prefer true perspective because I personanly think it looks better), but if you look at ramyb's explanation the red leg has been tweaked a little to the right so that it hides behind the stool leg making the red leg and the already existing easel leg closer at the bottom than at the top when they should really be running parallel to each other even if he is using isometric perspective.

corey8604


quality posts: 0 Private Messages corey8604
Re: Leonardo


best ever

andypenafiel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages andypenafiel
Re: Leonardo


plz make this a shirt i want it its so awsome

Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
citizencoyote wrote:I would never expect Ramy to use more than six colors. Woot is a serious stickler for that particular rule, and Ramy is far too experienced to jeopardize an entry on such a technicality.


It's happened.

elviswind


quality posts: 1 Private Messages elviswind
aerc712 wrote:The theme was begging for a few TMNT entries.


No, it really wasn't.

calilass126


quality posts: 0 Private Messages calilass126
cwarfield82 wrote:I need this please and thanks



Agreed!

4khaos


quality posts: 8 Private Messages 4khaos
chumpmagic wrote:Well that my art lesson for the day. I hope you all enjoyed it

Very much enjoyed.

I feel the main problems with this design are the legs, or rather the lack thereof. Despite reading the reasoning behind why the easel leg is missing, my eye just expects it to be visible. Also, the turtle's leg seems to go through the seat, rather than around, which is probably because my eye expects more of the side of the leg to be visible from this perspective.

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