derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley

Hi there Derbier.

I understand you want to get into this 't-shirt design thing', but you feel the rules seem unclear in places... well, my name's Derek, and I have pushed every limit, tested every breaking point, and bent every rule. I have walked right up to 'the line' and crowed at it like Peter the faerie-lovin’ Pan. I have wrestled with "The Great Rejectorator" -and - while I have not always been victorious, I have come away with some valuable insight into what is and is not allowed in these contests of graphical design fortitude. My dear Derbier, I hope to keep this post updated as new rules are made, broken, changed, or upheld. I encourage you to post your own observations and corrections (as I might miss some things on occasion). I will try and keep this first post updated per your comments. Thank you, and please read on.



*Derby Rules* (Unofficial)


----- The Basics: -----
In order to enter a design, you must submit three files:
- 240 x 240 pixel 72 dpi ‘Design Detail’ (used to initially display your design)
- 580 x 580 pixel 72 dpi ‘Shirt Comp’ Used to display designs in more detail and used by Woot(!) staff as your intended positioning of the design on the shirt)
- 16 in x 20 in 300 dpi ‘Print Design’ (used by Woot(!) staff to make your design should you win)

You do not technically need to submit a 16" by 20" file to enter (and many designers chose not to submit these for whatever reason), however, obviously Woot(!) cannot print your design without a print-ready file, so it’s in your best interest to avoid complications and submit all three at the same time. The main focus of this post will be on the Design Detail and the Shirt Comp.


----- Instant and Permanent Rejections -----
While there is quite a bit of gray area and wiggle room within the rules, several no-no’s will get you rejected every time. These will result in a complete erasure of your design from the shirt.woot(!) servers, it will be like it never even existed:

-Use of profanity
-Use of pornography
-Use of racism

I have not yet heard of a user being banned from contributing designs to the derby, but why push that particular button, ya nincompoop?


----- Common Rejection Reasons -----
There are several rejection types that appear frequently:

Power Logo
-The ‘power logo’, is (in fact) copyrighted.

I <3 Stuff
-I <3 Fill in the blank shirts are viciously protected by the city of NY, and are very bannable.

Portal
-The video game 'Portal' has been successfully parodied once already, now all portal references are banned.

Street Signs
-Rule 32: No street signs.

In Soviet Russia...
-The twenty year old 'In Soviet Russia' meme makes an appearance nearly every derby. It is not clever or original, and is a good bet for rejection.

Flying Penguins
-Rule: 62 section b: No flying penguins, be it of their own volition or through the assistance of any kind of mechanical device. Some things just aren't natural.

Pacman
-Pacman is finally out of bounds.

Text
In derbies where the rules state 'no text', this means that any symbol, letter, or number is prohibited. This applies to any key on the keyboard, foreign language script, dollar signs, exclamation points, 'at' symbols, etc. This is a very common rejection pitfall.

Alcohol
Usually a rejectable offense.


----- Erroneous Rejections -----
Occasionally Woot(!) rejects a shirt in error. Woot(!) will often acknowledge this, though they almost always ask the designer to suck it up and resubmit their design, resetting their vote count. It is important to point out that Woot(!) does have the ability to un-reject an entry and restore the former vote count, though such a result is highly unlikely.


----- Copyright Infringement -----
This has been a topic of much contention (and often, gnashing of teeth) in the forums.

-A shirt may not contain any copyrighted elements. In the past this has included: The Shape of a Lego Man, Zorro, The Simpsons, Power Rangers, Pez, Superman, and Star Wars among many others.

Pac Man notably has slipped through. Ditto C-3P0

Parody
Copyrights may be used if they are making a clear statement on or about the copyrighted item.

Examples:
McDonalds, Coca Cola, Disney, and Best Buy among others…
Starbucks


----- Shirt Resubmittal -----
The question of 'can I resubmit a popular design in multiple derbies?' has been a contentious one (so much so that Woot(!) commandant Joel Lewis weighed in).

Our laxity in rejections of resubmissions has been thrown directly back in our face. Touche and here, I'll clarify:

Resubmissions are not allowed unless there has been "significant" change(s) made to the entry. "Significant" is the subjective part here. Color changes, composition, additions, etc may all qualify as significant or may not. It's up to us. If you think someone is sneaking one in, I'll rely on the Tattle functionality to help out. Use the Tattle and link to the previous submission. It's not enough just to say "resubmission."

If it's determined to be a resubmission without significant change, then it will be rejected. People who think it's funny and keep resubmitting will be probated (ooh...I'm salivating).

In the event that a previous entry has attained the noble Honorable Mention status, is then resubmitted with what are determined as 'significant' changes, then the resubmitted entry will stand, but it may forfeit it's entry into the Best of Derby. How's that?



----- Plagiarism -----
Similar to (and often concurrent with) Copyright Infringement. It should be noted that the kind of people who frequent woot are the kind who are very good at scouring the web (as well as the kind who have copious amounts of time on their hands). Plagiarism, no matter how subtle, is almost always caught.

-If a similar shirt exists in production, Woot(!) is likely to reject.
-If a shirt appears to be a direct trace of a picture found online without significant modification, then rejection is likely.
-If there appears to be no original work in a design, even with significant modification, then it will be rejected.
-If a shirt appears to be significantly similar to another derby entry, then it might be rejected.


----- Woot(!) References -----
-Anything that cannot be understood outside the confines of the Woot(!) website will probably be rejected. This rule is inconsistently enforced on questionable shirts.


----- Colors -----
-Submissions can have no more than 6 ‘spot colors’ This includes black and white. Successful Derbiers often let the shirt color come through in their designs for an unofficial 7th color.


----- Gradients/Minimum Line Width -----
-Gradients in designs are consistently rejected.
-Halftones (small dot groupings made to look like gradients) and thin lines are sometimes rejected, but sometimes not. The smaller the details, the less likely a shirt is to print well.


----- Design Detail -----
-Cannot have any gradients.
-May have partial design elements
-May have clarifying text not found in the shirt design


----- Shirt Comp -----
-Must show a full t-shirt representation (or enough of the shirt to give a very clear idea of placement) somewhere in the image.
-Must represent only one shirt color.
-Design must be within an approximation of 16” by 20”
-Designs must be on either front or back of shirt (not both)
-Designs must be at least 1” away from any seams, collar, and bottom of shirt.


----- Helpful Links -----
Jack31081's 'real t' shirt comp template.
-If you're wondering where designers get the 'real shirt' look in their shirt comps, this is most likely it.

JamesCho84's Shirt Template
-This template is growing in popularity. It is not sized correctly, so make sure to change image size to 600x600 if you don't want artifacting. If any of this confuses you, cdownload Jack's template above instead :-)

www.bestlosers.com
-ThatRobert's blog. Full of past derby recaps, interviews with prominent designers, and links to artist's shirts on sale.

www.shirtderbystats.com
-A statistics tracking site maintained by cwarrington. Commonly used by derby regulars due to it's fog placement estimation.

ShirtsOnSale.com
-All shirts currently available to buy through Woot(!) are listed here (though not anywhere on the official Woot(!) site... It's just how they roll.)

Visual ShirtsOnSale
-A great place to see every shirt woot has ever printed!


That’s it for now. Revisions should appear periodically. Please PM me or post below if something is incorrect or should be listed. Also, shirt example links are welcome if you’d like to track them down. Thanks, and happy derbying!

*Please don't quote this whole post in your reply*


Bluchez made a handy pictogram for those visual learners among you:


Miscellaneous rules:


Other common rules that don't always apply:


Check out my blog:Here!

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
derekfilley wrote:Shirt Comp

-Must show a full t-shirt representation somewhere in the image.
-Must represent only one shirt color.
-Design must be within an approximation of 16” by 20”
-Designs must be on either front or back of shirt (not both)
-Designs must be at least 1” away from any seams, collar, and bottom of shirt.



Breaking the quote rule (I'll probably come back and delete the quote bit later, so clarity is maintained)...

I think the design should be in the box provided, not just an inch away from the seams and such- as far as I know, Woot hasn't been willing to give any wiggle room on that for derby entries. So no shoulder stuff, even if you're an inch away.

And I think as long as you show the entire design on the shirt, with the design completely visible, I'm not sure the entire shirt needs to be visible anywhere. I've only seen rejection when part of the design is obscured when a partial shirt is used to show placement. For chest placements, I'm not sure why showing the entire length of the shirt would be necessary.

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley
geekfactor12 wrote:Said some stuff


My first design is about 1" away from the shoulder. Other designs have been close to the sides/bottom so I don't know if that merits a change.

You're right on the second point, I think I was a little hypersensitive after this derby ;-)



Check out my blog:Here!

vishneda


quality posts: 0 Private Messages vishneda
derekfilley wrote:
-Designs must be at least 1” away from any seams, collar, and bottom of shirt.


I think this is only true if the design is grossly outside the boundaries or if key elements of the design fall out of the boundary.

I submitted a design with art right to the collar. Woot not only allowed the design, they brought it back in the "best of" derby. Also, Barthesis had a design called "Follow The Leader" that had art above the collar and to the top of the shirt template. It won second place and was actually printed in only a slightly modified form.

All that aside, Derek, you did a great job on this and I think it is very accurate and useful. You should make it a part of the Woot Wiki and make either the whole thing or a synopsis a part of the actual Woot Wikipedia page.

InitialSam


quality posts: 0 Private Messages InitialSam

"-If a shirt appears to be significantly similar to another derby entry, then it might be rejected (no precedent as of yet). "

This happened in the Apathy theme with a couple of shirts that ripped min off.

Check it out...

thatrobert


quality posts: 23 Private Messages thatrobert

CompUSA? All those copyright infringements and you pick one that isn't there...

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley

Changes made, thanks guys!


Check out my blog:Here!

AlexIAm


quality posts: 2 Private Messages AlexIAm

Good job Derek... now if we can just get people to read this... maybe if Joel can add a link in his weekly description? Hint. Hint.

>insert funny quote here<

eyeslikesugar


quality posts: 2 Private Messages eyeslikesugar

If you're going to add no street signs, you might want to add no Portal. =)

-James Cho -EdgarRMcherly Shirt.Woot.Com - Ye Oldest Sucker - 2009

allawayr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages allawayr

I dunno if it was mentioned, I didn't see it, but perhaps add the 'no "I <3 ..." motif rule'?

Jack31081


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Jack31081

As an unfortunately "semi" retired derby-er (we'll see what happens once my last shirt gets reckoned) who helped derek and the rest ease shirt.woot.com through its growing pains, I can say this is all spot-on.

I'd only add that you should NEVER underestimate the knowledge base of the woot public. If there's a shirt out there on the intraweb somewhere, one of these guys has seen it already and will call you out if your design resembles it (intentionally or not).

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

For consistency with the submission page, maybe call the design comp the design detail? That's what they call it and I've almost submitted them backwards before, heh.

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley

Thanks guys, made some more updates and format changes. Hopefully this will be a useful tool for new derbiers (and even as a refresher for us veterans ;-)


Check out my blog:Here!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
derekfilley wrote:Thanks guys, made some more updates and format changes. Hopefully this will be a useful tool for new derbiers (and even as a refresher for us veterans ;-)



I know I'm ever the cynic, but with the number of people who don't read the main rules (and by that, I mean the theme, text banning or not banning, etc, as well as the FAQ rules) I wonder how many people will implement this.

Still, good on ya for turning a rejection into a positive and pretty well compiled tutorial. You're very much on the money on a lot of this.

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley
AdderXYU wrote:I know I'm ever the cynic, but with the number of people who don't read the main rules (and by that, I mean the theme, text banning or not banning, etc, as well as the FAQ rules) I wonder how many people will implement this.

Still, good on ya for turning a rejection into a positive and pretty well compiled tutorial. You're very much on the money on a lot of this.




Well, a lot of regulars have been asking for clarification of the rules for a long time. It's nice to have everything compiled in one place with precedents linked. Even if people don't read it, their grounds for complaining when they get the axe are greatly reduced I should think.


Check out my blog:Here!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
derekfilley wrote:Well, a lot of regulars have been asking for clarification of the rules for a long time. It's nice to have everything compiled in one place with precedents linked. Even if people don't read it, their grounds for complaining when they get the axe are greatly reduced I should think.



Agreed. It's a definite quality thread, especially the precedents.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

derekfilley wrote:Well, a lot of regulars have been asking for clarification of the rules for a long time. It's nice to have everything compiled in one place with precedents linked. Even if people don't read it, their grounds for complaining when they get the axe are greatly reduced I should think.


Ha, unless it's a fluke. Maybe you should start a fluke section and link Josephus' drunken slug (snail?) entry. >_<;

And the pink shirt.

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek

Certainly could have used something like this MYSELF a long time ago. Great job!

Bryan818


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Bryan818

good job derek thaank you for taking the time to make this

Please check it out

artulo


quality posts: 13 Private Messages artulo

Thanks for making this! It's very clear.

eyeslikesugar


quality posts: 2 Private Messages eyeslikesugar

Hey Derek.. one question..
I'm wondering how the coupon shirt is Woot-related. I bought it because I do <3 coupons.. and therefore might be biased and not seeing the Woot reference.

-James Cho -EdgarRMcherly Shirt.Woot.Com - Ye Oldest Sucker - 2009

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
eyeslikesugar wrote:Hey Derek.. one question..
I'm wondering how the coupon shirt is Woot-related. I bought it because I do <3 coupons.. and therefore might be biased and not seeing the Woot reference.



I think the point is that his shirt was, ostensibly, a shirt about buying shirts, as was coupons. However, while his was rejected for being about buying a shirt from woot, the other one was not, even though technically any shirt that proclaims how you bought the shirt being sold on woot is a "shirt about buying a shirt from woot".

I don't know how deep Derek's feelings about this decision go, but it is arguably an example of how two similar concepts won't meet similar fates.

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley
eyeslikesugar wrote:Hey Derek.. one question..
I'm wondering how the coupon shirt is Woot-related. I bought it because I do <3 coupons.. and therefore might be biased and not seeing the Woot reference.



The inclusion of that particular shirt was a thinly veiled jab at woot who rejected my fogged entry "this shirt cost me $10" that derby, then allowed the coupon shirt (which I think copied my concept and executed it poorly), a shirt that then won, despite being arguably as woot-related as my shirt was.

I think you are right in that neither one really is woot related, but if mine was rejected, they both should have been ;-)

On another note, The reason I originally made up this rules thread was to showcase my 5 fogged rejected entries, so I had to include my $10 shirt at some point. ;-)


AdderXYU wrote:
I don't know how deep Derek's feelings about this decision go, but it is arguably an example of how two similar concepts won't meet similar fates.



That was the main reason I added it, yes. The other stuff was just gravy. sweet, sweet passive-aggressive-revenge gravy ;-)


Check out my blog:Here!

eyeslikesugar


quality posts: 2 Private Messages eyeslikesugar
derekfilley wrote:The inclusion of that particular shirt was a thinly veiled jab at woot who rejected my fogged entry "this shirt cost me $10" that derby, then allowed the coupon shirt (which I think copied my concept and executed it poorly), a shirt that then won, despite being arguably as woot-related as my shirt was.

I think you are right in that neither one really is woot related, but if mine was rejected, they both should have been ;-)

On another note, The reason I originally made up this rules thread was to showcase my 5 fogged rejected entries, so I had to include my $10 shirt at some point. ;-)



I see yours as more Woot related than the coupon one, but like I said I am biased. I was new to Woot at the time, and didn't grasp voting or the forums.. so I didn't vote for the shirt even though I bought it. I had not even seen the entries that week. At the time, I was just into the 'check shirt.woot every day at midnight, and see what's up'... but I do remember seeing the coupon shirt, thinking of my coupon addiction, and clicking buy. It might have been a jab you derek, but from a simply consumer (*giggles* tee-hees!!) standpoint, it stood alone as a non-woot related, clever shirt. Had yours won, I would have known instantly at that point what it meant; as I got into Woot initially for the $10 shirts, no shipping.

Nothing against you, I just honestly do not see the coupon shirt as, "woot related"

-James Cho -EdgarRMcherly Shirt.Woot.Com - Ye Oldest Sucker - 2009

AlvinPing


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AlvinPing
derekfilley wrote:then allowed the coupon shirt (which I think copied my concept and executed it poorly)



Thanks, Derek.

The coupon slogan was something that popped into my head immediately after I saw the theme. I know a lot of people who buy things they don't need, just because they have coupons (Hi, mom). Typically, however, derby ideas that pop up as fast as that one come and go, none ever take hold.

The only reason I turned it into the actual shirt is because my original entry didn't do as good as I'd have liked, so I was frustrated and sent in Coupons. The rest is couponic history.

As for woot-relatedness, a shirt that reads "$10 shirt plus free shipping" says, "I get my shirts from shirt.woot." Kind of like what ELS said. I don't think a shirt that tells people they unnecessarily purchase things because they had coupons for it gives out the same message.

Sorry for the digression; didn't mean to divert the thread.

  • Alvin

FenStar


quality posts: 16 Private Messages FenStar

What do I get paid? I can never seem to remember the payment thinggy.

Still single, can't imagine why.

AlvinPing


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AlvinPing
FenStar wrote:What do I get paid? I can never seem to remember the payment thinggy.



On the first day of sales:


  • Designs that sell 0-500 units yield a $250 prize.
  • Designs that sell 501 or more units yield a $500 dollar prize.

In both cases:

  • Any shirts that sell after that first day will yield $2 each, until the shirt is no longer for sale.

(Note: There is no difference in first-day prize money whether you place First, Second, or Third - winners will always receive either $250 or $500. Every derby winner shirt thus far has sold over 500 units.)

  • Alvin

FenStar


quality posts: 16 Private Messages FenStar
AlvinPing wrote:On the first day of sales:

  • Designs that sell 0-500 units yield a $250 prize.
  • Designs that sell 501 or more units yield a $500 dollar prize.

In both cases:

  • Any shirts that sell after that first day will yield $2 each, until the shirt is no longer for sale.

(Note: There is no difference in first-day prize money whether you place First, Second, or Third - winners will always receive either $250 or $500. Every derby winner shirt thus far has sold over 500 units.)

Thanks.

Still single, can't imagine why.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
AlvinPing wrote:On the first day of sales:

  • Designs that sell 0-500 units yield a $250 prize.
  • Designs that sell 501 or more units yield a $500 dollar prize.

In both cases:

  • Any shirts that sell after that first day will yield $2 each, until the shirt is no longer for sale.

(Note: There is no difference in first-day prize money whether you place First, Second, or Third - winners will always receive either $250 or $500. Every derby winner shirt thus far has sold over 500 units.)



Not that I want to go on a huge digression about payment in the Rules thread, but can anyone who has submit a daily confirm or deny whether this is the same pay scale?

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley
AdderXYU wrote:Not that I want to go on a huge digression about payment in the Rules thread, but can anyone who has submit a daily confirm or deny whether this is the same pay scale?



I believe daily submitters have the option of taking one dollar per shirt after initial day and retaining the rights to their design for everything but t-shirts.


Check out my blog:Here!

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
derekfilley wrote:I believe daily submitters have the option of taking one dollar per shirt after initial day and retaining the rights to their design for everything but t-shirts.



That is the Less Exclusive form of the contract. Like you said, it's less money (half what you would get with an Exclusive contract) but the artist can use the design for non-garment or apparel uses after 180 days and for apparel and garment uses after a year (I think that's the gist, anyway).

I don't know if anyone actually uses that contract, though- everyone I know of has gone Exclusive.

AlvinPing


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AlvinPing
geekfactor12 wrote:That is the Less Exclusive form of the contract. Like you said, it's less money (half what you would get with an Exclusive contract) but the artist can use the design for non-garment or apparel uses after 180 days and for apparel and garment uses after a year (I think that's the gist, anyway).



Here's the source article for anyone who wants to check it out (contract info is at the bottom). It's a good read and nice inside look at shirt.woot.

  • Alvin

llafren


quality posts: 0 Private Messages llafren

I think it's time for a Woot themed derby, anyone else think the same way? (I brought it up here because Woot themes are against the rules).

"Why take life seriously? You're not going to get out of it alive anyway..."
Acheron Parthenopaeus

thatrobert


quality posts: 23 Private Messages thatrobert
geekfactor12 wrote:That is the Less Exclusive form of the contract. Like you said, it's less money (half what you would get with an Exclusive contract) but the artist can use the design for non-garment or apparel uses after 180 days and for apparel and garment uses after a year (I think that's the gist, anyway).

I don't know if anyone actually uses that contract, though- everyone I know of has gone Exclusive.



I did NOT go exclusive with Cat Carrier. I really like those kitties. So that means I'll be getting $250 + $1/shirt and was in danger of getting only $125. That would've hurt...

MikeHoncho


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MikeHoncho

Being new to the derby (and woot) this is really helpful. Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions before I even asked them.

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley
MikeHoncho wrote:Being new to the derby (and woot) this is really helpful. Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions before I even asked them.



Glad to help Mike, Also glad to see you found Jack's "Real Tee Template"


Check out my blog:Here!

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
derekfilley wrote:You do not technically need to submit a 16’ by 20’ file to enter


Should read 16" by 20"?

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
thatrobert wrote:I did NOT go exclusive with Cat Carrier. I really like those kitties. So that means I'll be getting $250 + $1/shirt and was in danger of getting only $125. That would've hurt...



Does that mean you're able to reprint it in a year? It's a swank design, and I'm sure it'd sell way better with an audience that didn't see everything as anti-american propaganda.

Also, Derek, you might want to add this new "no penguins" rule to your list.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

We've got a new rule for you. It can be found here, posted by Joel.

Rule: 62 section b: No flying penguins, be it of their own volition or through the assistance of any kind of mechanical device. Some things just aren't natural.

For better or worse, there you have it.

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

derekfilley


quality posts: 0 Private Messages derekfilley

Thanks guys, changes made.


Check out my blog:Here!