Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
psearles wrote:Do you think that the drop and sales might have to do with the fact that the quality of shirts has gone down so far, and they argue anytime people bring that fact up.


There are multiple factors when it comes to the drop in sales. The blanks are a huge one, as it completely removed those who are petite from being able to buy shirts. Woot's #1 volume artist ventured out on his own, which I'm sure took away some buyers too. The site's redesign and the move from "one deal, one day" towards "just another e-commerce site" drove away a lot of Wooters too. And with more and more t-shirt sites and options, the buyers are spread out yet again.

I have dealt with local screen printers many times before and I have a clear idea on what the price point is on these shirts, and if you honestly believe that they are losing money by selling AA shirts at $13.00, then I have a bridge to sell you.


Screen print. That's way different from DTG. Ask them how much it would cost to print one shirt - dark color, AA 2001 or 2102, 6-color print plus underbase. That's what's happening when one orders a shirt from the back catalog.

A high-volume DTG printer that could sustain the workload Woot needs carries a 6-digit price tag. A full set of ink bottles costs over $1k. Then there's the pretreatment, cleanup/maintenance costs, and the associated labor - all have to be factored into the cost of the shirt. Then add $2 in commission to that, because the art isn't free, no matter what customers or some "artists" think.

Once their capital investment is paid off/depreciated, I can see their cost lower. Until then, I stand by my statement.

Flipit


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Flipit

Staff

Right on, Narfcake. I've been in the imprinted sportswear industry way longer than I'd like to admit, and one of the biggest issues of all time is most people(including most people IN the industry) have no idea how much it costs to produce an imprint on a garment. This is a labor intensive, problematic, esoteric vocation that is REAL hard to make a living doing.

So, psearles, what are the UTM coordinates of that bridge?

Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
Flipit wrote:Right on, Narfcake. I've been in the imprinted sportswear industry way longer than I'd like to admit, and one of the biggest issues of all time is most people(including most people IN the industry) have no idea how much it costs to produce an imprint on a garment. This is a labor intensive, problematic, esoteric vocation that is REAL hard to make a living doing.


Indeed. Big box stores selling imprinted shirts for $5 has disillusioned the masses in what it actually takes to produce a shirt, not understanding what's really involved. Let's see ... start with blanks that make Anvil 980's look really expensive in comparison (let alone AA shirts), only a couple colors, run like 50,000 copies at once, and it all goes to one customer. So of course it's ludicrous to think that a 6-color commissioned art, printed on ring spun cotton, produced in limited production, and individually shipped is going to cost more ...

Where were we? Customers. Don't be cheap.

dreamaster


quality posts: 4 Private Messages dreamaster
Flipit wrote:Right on, Narfcake. I've been in the imprinted sportswear industry way longer than I'd like to admit, and one of the biggest issues of all time is most people(including most people IN the industry) have no idea how much it costs to produce an imprint on a garment. This is a labor intensive, problematic, esoteric vocation that is REAL hard to make a living doing.

So, psearles, what are the UTM coordinates of that bridge?



Hi woot staff person!

We were flying fine before anvil showed up right?

Can you explain the whiskey tango foxtrot that occurred after that and the need to obfuscate the issue so that Anvil shirts could chase people away?

Right now I see a lot of excuses being promoted on how a transit back to situation nominal is impossible because the situation is hopeless.

Oh, and as a followup, did you even post in the "Hi we're sticking up our middle finger in the transition to anvil" thousands of posts year long thread?

{grinz}

ytrameel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ytrameel

So happy I saw this. I saw the switch to anvil and just quit even checking shirt woot. Checked tonight on the off chance to see the reckoning, and boom AA is back. Can finally end my hiatus.

Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
dreamaster wrote:Hi woot staff person!

We were flying fine before anvil showed up right?

Can you explain the whiskey tango foxtrot that occurred after that and the need to obfuscate the issue so that Anvil shirts could chase people away?


The change was NOT of the shirt.Woot staff's choice - and they're not going to risk their own job for posting the specific reasons.

Right now I see a lot of excuses being promoted on how a transit back to situation nominal is impossible because the situation is hopeless.

Oh, and as a followup, did you even post in the "Hi we're sticking up our middle finger in the transition to anvil" thousands of posts year long thread?

{grinz}


The "excuses" didn't come from the Woot staff; I, the resident shirt nerd, was the one posting a plausible order of transition.

As for the mega-Anvil thread, what's left to say that hasn't been said yet, barring the aspects in which they cannot answer without repercussions?

Please understand that as one of their biggest critics last year - and I'm sure I helped drive some (many?) customers away - I also know very well that throwing a fit isn't going to yield any actual solutions either.

psearles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages psearles

You guys are precious, either you are being paid by Woot or you are so blinded by your pure love of them that you don't see the reality which is that they are a large company now, that is making ALOT of money, being a eCommerce site. This is not the site I used to visit years ago that was literally run by a small committed staff that really cared about customers and their complaints.

You are making excuses for why their production is down and completely ignoring what I'm say which is one of the reasons people stopped buying was the change of shirts, and Woot's inability to admit they had made a mistake. They won't even refund or exchange the shirt that I bought after the exchange that was ridiculously sized, and a mens shirt. They got my email that I sent saying it was a mens not a ladies, and they told me I was wrong, then wouldn't follow up with me when I emailed them back again.

And as far as the other companies, I apologize I miss spoke. I have dealt with many shirt companies that do screen and digital printing like Woot. I have had to price out small batches that are in the 500-800 shirt range, and there is no doubt that Woot is making a good profit on every shirt they sell, if they weren't they would be out of business, or would a shut down Woot Shirt.

Do you really think AMAZON would let this site continue if it wasn't making money or that they would have paid $110 million for Woot if they really didn't have good profit margins?

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
psearles wrote:
Do you really think AMAZON would let this site continue if it wasn't making money or that they would have paid $110 million for Woot if they really didn't have good profit margins?



Do you really think these changes aren't a direct result of trying to improve profit margins?

I can see why you acquired that bridge in the first place.

My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

psearles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages psearles
Mavyn wrote:Do you really think these changes are a direct result of trying to improve profit margins?

I can see why you acquired that bridge in the first place.



Yes, I think they went to the Anvil shirts because they were trying to improve margins, they stated that when they did the change.

And yes many of the changes to woot over the last couple of years and their transition to a ecommerce site are also to improve profit margins.

Bridge is still for sale ;)

Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
psearles wrote:You guys are precious, either you are being paid by Woot or you are so blinded by your pure love of them that you don't see the reality which is that they are a large company now, that is making ALOT of money, being a eCommerce site. This is not the site I used to visit years ago that was literally run by a small committed staff that really cared about customers and their complaints.


Oh, we know the reality, and the changes that were brought down because of that reality. But after my months of ranting, there was also hope.

FWIW, I have posts on almost every page of the mega-Anvil thread, and many were not nice replies, so I'm not so sure why there's any thought that I'm supportive of the change - especially since I even chimed in before the switch.

You are making excuses for why their production is down and completely ignoring what I'm say which is one of the reasons people stopped buying was the change of shirts ...


You might want to reread my last reply, as "The blanks are a huge one" is surely related to the change.

And as far as the other companies, I apologize I miss spoke. I have dealt with many shirt companies that do screen and digital printing like Woot. I have had to price out small batches that are in the 500-800 shirt range, and there is no doubt that Woot is making a good profit on every shirt they sell, if they weren't they would be out of business, or would a shut down Woot Shirt.


500-800 isn't considered a small batch by any means.

FWIW, the lowest selling item on shirt.woot was 3 shirts. Let us know if any of your local shops could do it for $45 with shipping to three different addresses.

Keep in mind that the artists get a commission on their designs too, which is an added cost.

Do you really think AMAZON would let this site continue if it wasn't making money or that they would have paid $110 million for Woot if they really didn't have good profit margins?


It was status quo in the first year since the switch. Then there was push. Under The Dark Side's leadership, Woot continues if there's better profit than before ... and all that we see are a result of their push for it.

Bridge is still for sale ;)


Good luck!

jennreese


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jennreese

Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus: I was loving shirt.woot with AA shirts, and did my best to publicize good designs among my social circles. After the switch to Anvil, I ordered several shirts in various sizes but couldn't find any that fit and ended up donating them all. Reluctantly, I gave up shopping here and stopped visiting at all, since I couldn't buy anything I liked. I just happened to have insomnia tonight and stopped by to check on the derby and saw that AAs are temporarily back. If they stay back, I'll be back. (And I'll buy shirts during the test period provided there are any designs I like.) I don't care about an extra buck if I can buy a shirt that actually fits, feels good, and looks good when I wear it.

Jenn

astralboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages astralboy

I ordered 50+ shirts with Woot when they were AA shirts, I've worn some of them 100 times and they still fit and wear great.

The garbage Anvil shirts are a joke, they don't fit right and after a single wash are like a night gown.

Extremely happy to see you guys got your heads out of your asses and realized your diminishing profits were due to your terrible idea to cut quality, as if no one would notice.

Will continue to buy shirts as long as you keep the AA option, the extra dollar is well worth it.

kitra


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kitra

Actually, as far as the women's shirts go, both have their issues. The anvil is too baggy, but the american is too tight and going up or down a size makes it worse.

I would love to see an option for V-necks on "all designs". They tend to be a bit more size friendly IMHO as the V lets the shirt give a bit more. If there was a good v-neck option I would replace all of my woot shirts with woot v-necks.

mrscat206


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mrscat206
kylerjaye wrote:size question. looking at the charts it appears that if i was a woman's large for an anvil, the xl in AA will still be too small??

any input on the ladies sizing??
thanks!




I wore an L in the AA and a S in the Anvil - I like things to be a little loose - so I think the AA is two sizes up from the Anvil?

Also, my two cents - I'm not a huge casual T person but I am loving the hoodies and long sleeve options (even own a couple aprons) and would really like to see some cute tanks. Pretty sure I'd buy a whole closet full of woot tank tops...

dreamaster


quality posts: 4 Private Messages dreamaster

This has to be a two way street woot - I want to buy shirts on AA

But the last four?

C'mon - ninja's, pirates, comedy gold - pleeeeeeeaaaazzszzzeeeeee!!!!

Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
mrscat206 wrote:I wore an L in the AA and a S in the Anvil - I like things to be a little loose - so I think the AA is two sizes up from the Anvil?



From the other thread, one to two sizes different was typical. It also reinforces the aspect that both options should continue to exist, as the sizes complement, not replace one another.

xb1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages xb1

Add the AA option to the back catalog and I will buy 20 over the next month. And most likely resume my trend of at 3 shirts per month before the Anvil switch.

nerdbynight1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nerdbynight1

Yayayayay! Thanks for listening, Woot team. I sure am glad I didn't give up checking the site once a week to see if you got your head on straight. Let's hope this experiment is a success and this becomes a regular thing!

dreamaster


quality posts: 4 Private Messages dreamaster

If tonight's shirt doesn't sell over 178 shirts, please think about your strategy for presenting shirts for sale.

It's a well done shirt. Artistic and stuff.

But worth more than 27 cents? No.

please open the back catalog. I'll be happy to start buying a ton of shirts!

(if it sells more than 178 shirts, please let everyone here know I was wrong)

krillah


quality posts: 0 Private Messages krillah

If all the designs were available on AA I would buy at least 12 t-shirts right now.

If all the designs were available on AA and in Long Sleeve I would buy at least 12 t-shirts and 6 long sleeve shirts right now.

I haven't bought a shirt since the switch to Anvil. Before that I had bought between 20-30 shirts.

jjkehoe


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jjkehoe
kitra wrote:Actually, as far as the women's shirts go, both have their issues. The anvil is too baggy, but the american is too tight and going up or down a size makes it worse.

I would love to see an option for V-necks on "all designs". They tend to be a bit more size friendly IMHO as the V lets the shirt give a bit more. If there was a good v-neck option I would replace all of my woot shirts with woot v-necks.



Sing it! I am a big fan of the v-necks, and would love to have the option to replace my existing shirts, and to buy new ones. In my ideal world, a v-neck on the lighter-weight side, too. I scour the side sales every werk hoping to see some of the designs I love in v-neck.

On the topic, I bought a shirt for my kid simply to vote with my wallet for the AA blanks.

pedro123


quality posts: 1 Private Messages pedro123

Anyone for a sturdier shirt, maybe Gildan?

Narfcake


quality posts: 287 Private Messages Narfcake
pedro123 wrote:Anyone for a sturdier shirt, maybe Gildan?


Carded open-end cotton, no thanks.

When it comes to heavier blanks, I do have to give the nod to Gildan 2000, but that's because of their wholesale price is among the lowest in the industry. They're thick, but they're also coarse and "scratchy" because impurities in the fibers are not fully removed.

Blix360


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Blix360

I gotta tell ya... I was VERY disappointed when the switch happened.

Now that you have AA as an option I'm looking forward to checking in each night to see if I like the design and will absolutely purchase as long as AA is available.

Also, another vote for having some, I don't know ... A 2 day event to be able to order the Reckoning shirts. I would buy 3 for sure.

I am 6'2, wide shouldered, and slimish. The Anvil shirts look ridiculous on me and aren't very comfortable.

dreamaster


quality posts: 4 Private Messages dreamaster

So far nine shirts since you brought AA back!

My bank account hates you - but I don't care!

dreamaster


quality posts: 4 Private Messages dreamaster

make that ten shirts!

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5

Time's up

move along

4khaos


quality posts: 8 Private Messages 4khaos
j5 wrote:Time's up


That's too bad.

ChronoSquall14


quality posts: 39 Private Messages ChronoSquall14

Just glad I had the chance. designs were the wild card of course, but we bought two AA and will probably get another one with his weekend's derby winners. It's not a ton, but hey, three more than I would've bought otherwise. Hope it was a positive test run, Woot. It was for me.

drdna


quality posts: 0 Private Messages drdna

oh for the good old days. I miss the AA shirts.

JenDupre


quality posts: 19 Private Messages JenDupre

Picked up another American Apparel shirt today. Would love to buy more. Really like brown shirts. 8-)
My last Anvil was Transitions. A $24.98 stretched out mess mistake. Would you consider AA for your side sales and top 20 please?
please
please

JenDupre


quality posts: 19 Private Messages JenDupre

Well crap....just read the link above. At least I got 3 more Woot shirts before they sail off into the sunset.


sadface

abrahamz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages abrahamz

Well, it's good to know that the test is ending (as in I'm glad I found out, not that I'm glad it's over). I suspect I will be buying shirts today, Saturday, and Sunday because I liked pretty much the entire top 9 in this Derby. But as of the Space Derby, I will once again refrain from voting because I know I won't buy the Anvil shirt.

To the Woot Number Crunchers analyzing how the AA test went, I hope you take into account that a) the test was poorly advertised, so a lot of devoted Shirt.Woot buyers of old didn't even see it and b) the majority of the shirts offered during the test (IMO) weren't the best. I will buy a shirt I like on AA in a heartbeat, but I still have to like the design.

caramelarrow


quality posts: 14 Private Messages caramelarrow
j5 wrote:Time's up



That's just awful. I've been waiting, not so patiently, for a design I actually wanted while this AA option existed. I passed up so many shirts in the last year, but no design emerged lately that I wanted to buy. Woot, please make AA an option in the back catalog and side sales and you'll see my purchases shoot back up!

07/11/14

deepestblue75


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deepestblue75

I love my w00t shirts, but haven't purchased any since the switch to Anvil. If I wanted a shirt that would shrink and not retain it's shape I would go to Wal-Mart.

I hope this becomes the standard option, I will buy more shirts if AA is always available.

trekmiss


quality posts: 7 Private Messages trekmiss
j5 wrote:Time's up



Too bad I missed out on getting any new shirts. :-( The one shirt I would have bought I missed due to no Internet connection, and no way to buy it after the first day. Oh well...

What I've learned is to keep checking Woot and keep voting when I can just in case the opportunity to buy shirts arises again.

Thanks, Woot, for the chance to buy AA. I hope it happens again, or, even better, comes back to stay.

dtayntor


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dtayntor

Beware, ladies! I have been buying women's XL shirts, which are apparently Anvil. I just got an American Apparel WXL, and it is TINY. Maybe I can find a kid to give it to. I know... I should have checked the size chart instead of defaulting to Made in the USA. Leaving a warning for others makes me feel a tenth of a percent better.

glimfeather


quality posts: 0 Private Messages glimfeather

I'm so glad we had the option to choose AA shirts, but so sad that the test run is ending. Unfortunately, I didn't buy a single shirt because I didn't like any of the designs enough to buy a shirt. If the side sales or back catalog had the AA option, I definitely would have bought several shirts. I hope they offer the choice of AA or Anvil in the future.

drdna


quality posts: 0 Private Messages drdna

It might have been reasonable to send a message to all those who have purchased a Woot! shirt in the past, to let them know the AA shirts were back, given that many have simply stopped checking the site. Why would they check for merchandise they know they won't buy?

The remaining customers are a self-selected group who likely either do not know the difference between the two shirts or do not care. So any data derived from this test will be necessarily biased. Amazon should keep that in mind.

Another issue, already mentioned, is that we are limited by the designs at hand, which may not appeal to all comers. There are likely to be many potential AA buyers who simply did not see a design they wanted even if they were aware of the option to choose AA or Anvil.

An excellent test would be to make the back catalog available on AA. Then there would not be such a restriction. It has already been mentioned that lots of potential buyers would be chomping at the bit to buy back catalog shirts printed on AA. I know I am one of them, and have about half a dozen shirts or so on my list if that ever happens...

mikeanddeni


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mikeanddeni

American blanks all the way.

Thank you.