jrberger


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jrberger
uritziel wrote:If that level of similarity mattered, I'm not sure sites like shirt.woot or teefury could stay alive. After all, you can't copyright an idea; just an expression of it.

Also, on that note, the very fact that a similar shirt exists should be a strong hint that this is not an infringing design. Parody is not the only fair use of copyrighted material. Substantiality, transformation, and distinctiveness are three other aspects at play here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use is a decent starting spot for increasing one's understanding of fair use.



Some sites won't print shirts that are similar to others because it might hurt sales. A quick look on Ebay and this exact same design can be easily purchased. Whether it's fair use is up to Woot.

benjaminleebates


quality posts: 16 Private Messages benjaminleebates
uritziel wrote:If that level of similarity mattered, I'm not sure sites like shirt.woot or teefury could stay alive. After all, you can't copyright an idea; just an expression of it.

Also, on that note, the very fact that a similar shirt exists should be a strong hint that this is not an infringing design. Parody is not the only fair use of copyrighted material. Substantiality, transformation, and distinctiveness are three other aspects at play here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use is a decent starting spot for increasing one's understanding of fair use.



Your argument is moot. Woot has a very particular stance on printing things that they could get sued over. Referring to WIKI or other tee printing sites RARELY changes their attitude. If this shirt goes to print it will create a unwise precedent. Not only will this alienate artists that have had something rejected for not having enough parody(last week we had one); it will also embolden others to skirt the same unwise path.

uritziel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages uritziel
jrberger wrote:Some sites won't print shirts that are similar to others because it might hurt sales. A quick look on Ebay and this exact same design can be easily purchased. Whether it's fair use is up to Woot.



That makes perfect sense, assuming a certain level of similarity. Out of curiosity (since the shirt has been rejected), I did a quick search on ebay, but I was unable to find this "exact same design." Could you link it? I personally felt that the GITD aspect of this design set it apart.

uritziel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages uritziel
benjaminleebates wrote:Your argument is moot. Woot has a very particular stance on printing things that they could get sued over. Referring to WIKI or other tee printing sites RARELY changes their attitude. If this shirt goes to print it will create a unwise precedent. Not only will this alienate artists that have had something rejected for not having enough parody(last week we had one); it will also embolden others to skirt the same unwise path.



I was simply answering the question of why this design hadn't been rejected. Obviously, the real answer was that the powers-that-be are slow ;).

Though I must observe that Woot could get sued over almost every shirt they print. Obvious fair use is (unfortunately) not a defense from litigation. And in this case, the rejection reason appears to be redundancy rather than infringement.

acraigl


quality posts: 183 Private Messages acraigl
uritziel wrote:I was simply answering the question of why this design hadn't been rejected. Obviously, the real answer was that the powers-that-be are slow ;).

Though I must observe that Woot could get sued over almost every shirt they print. Obvious fair use is (unfortunately) not a defense from litigation. And in this case, the rejection reason appears to be redundancy rather than infringement.



I don't know that fair use has ever been a justification. Either re-imagining something in new style, or creating parody by giving it new meaning from the original has always been woot's position. Fair use assumes some direct "borrowing", and Woot's always been against that AFAIK. While the images in question may have been (re)drawn, they don't appear substantially different than the original (other than clever GITD placement), or convey a new message IMO.

And to the artist -- don't let this get you down. It's a learning experience and you can see we're all debating this. Thanks for stirring up and interesting conversation. Keep designing!!!

benjaminleebates


quality posts: 16 Private Messages benjaminleebates
uritziel wrote:I was simply answering the question of why this design hadn't been rejected. Obviously, the real answer was that the powers-that-be are slow ;).

Though I must observe that Woot could get sued over almost every shirt they print. Obvious fair use is (unfortunately) not a defense from litigation. And in this case, the rejection reason appears to be redundancy rather than infringement.



Don't be literal here. I can speak for MANY of us when saying that a designer must be able to read between the lines and seriously consider the advice from others. Many great artist have left this site is a huff due to the pendulum of the moods of the mods.
The Woot Mods were once a mighty race of beings, who once smoted even the lowliest of vote attractors. If any rule was broken or not followed the ban hammer would come down with a mighty roar.
Now, the Woot Mods of old are a more gentle race. They only curse the existence of the few that dare reach the heavens without paying heed to the signs and divinations of the see-ers.
Sinners that keep their feats low and do not seek the heavens do not attract their wrath. For if the sins only affect the mortals, what business is it of the Mods to smite? Especially if reverence to their mightiness observed?
Bottom line, woot does not examine the validity of each piece, only pieces as the approach the fog. They do not want to alienate the average participant... and potential purchaser.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 994 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

benjaminleebates wrote:Don't be literal here. I can speak for MANY of us when saying that a designer must be able to read between the lines and seriously consider the advice from others. Many great artist have left this site is a huff due to the pendulum of the moods of the mods.
The Woot Mods were once a mighty race of beings, who once smoted even the lowliest of vote attractors. If any rule was broken or not followed the ban hammer would come down with a might roar.
Now, the Woot Mods of old are a more gentle race. They only curse the existence of the few that dare reach the heavens without paying heed to the signs and divinations of the see-ers.
Sinners that keep their feats low and do not seek the heavens do not attract their wrath. For if the sins only affect the mortals, what business is it of the Mods to smite? Especially if reverence to their mightiest is observed?
Bottom line, woot does not examine the validity of each piece, only pieces as the approach the fog. They do not want to alienate the average participant... and potential purchaser.


Woot Mods = Shirt Team



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Jennzilla


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Jennzilla
Inatangle wrote:Love the colors! Nicely designed! and I have this strange urge to go out trick or treating with them...



Thanks! Don't forget a chocolate covered finger of a man named Clark.

minimnm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages minimnm
Re: Boogieman Nightmare


Seriously? Can I appeal a rejection? I disagree with "a similar shirt exists"

minimnm


quality posts: 0 Private Messages minimnm
ThunderThighs wrote:Woot Mods = Shirt Team



Dear Woot Mods,
Please reconsider or help me understand the reason for rejecting.

Catpacker


quality posts: 7 Private Messages Catpacker
Re: Time For Halloween


Cool design to wear!

Catpacker


quality posts: 7 Private Messages Catpacker
Re: you suck


Actually nice pun! :D

thatquietgir1


quality posts: 5 Private Messages thatquietgir1
minimnm wrote:Seriously? Can I appeal a rejection? I disagree with "a similar shirt exists"



I've never seen a design be un-rejected...

Narfcake


quality posts: 380 Private Messages Narfcake

Volunteer Moderator

minimnm wrote:Dear Woot Mods,
Please reconsider or help me understand the reason for rejecting.


The reason indeed is that similar shirts exist. And before there are more cries of foul, there has been precendence that involved lawyers when it came to having similar ideas. Shirt.woot must err on the safe side to avoid that again.

- Precendence on using "clip art", which was not properly licensed for use.

- Precendence on tracing.

- A short discussion on celebrity likeness.

Using other shirt sites to justify "fair use" doesn't stand here as the printing rights are perpetual versus the other sites which just "purchase printing rights for a day".

When it comes to the "we can't print this" rejections, it's usually due to IP and the only real way around that is to go the licensing route that Threadless and TeeTurtle has taken -- which is probably unlikely to happen here.

Don't get discouraged. One artist here had her very first derby submission rejected -- but she kept at it, taking in advice from others, learning what works and what doesn't ... and several months later, she printed. Then again. And again.

I would go so far to say that @fishbiscuit5 is one of the greatest shirt.woot derby successes ever.

No.1 rule of online apparel purchases: SIZING CHARTS! Unsure between standard and premium options at shirt.woot? Read more about their differences here.

Like (or dislike) what you see at shirt.woot? Choose what prints at shirt.woot! Vote in the derby!

- Note: I am not staff. If you need help with your purchases, contact Support.

ochopika


quality posts: 30 Private Messages ochopika

Staff

minimnm wrote:Dear Woot Mods,
Please reconsider or help me understand the reason for rejecting.



It's just too similar to an existing design on Threadless. We try to avoid printing designs that are similar to existing designs in order to keep our content unique. This isn't a legal or copyright concern, just a tenant of Shirt.Woot that we do our best to stick to. Don't get discouraged though!

uritziel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages uritziel
acraigl wrote:I don't know that fair use has ever been a justification. Either re-imagining something in new style, or creating parody by giving it new meaning from the original has always been woot's position. Fair use assumes some direct "borrowing", and Woot's always been against that AFAIK. While the images in question may have been (re)drawn, they don't appear substantially different than the original (other than clever GITD placement), or convey a new message IMO.

And to the artist -- don't let this get you down. It's a learning experience and you can see we're all debating this. Thanks for stirring up and interesting conversation. Keep designing!!!



Um, parody is an explicit example of fair use. No ambiguity there. Somebody didn't read my link. ;)

However, regarding your comment to the artist, I completely agree!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Trick or Treat 'em All



Wow! Nice work! I'm glad I took a closer look at this one... I hope it gets more votes!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Halloween Luck



Cute! Love the colors! gmv

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Sally's Soup



thatquietgir1 wrote:Have you not seen the nightmare before Christmas ! ?



No, I never have. Thanks for the clip!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Pumpkin Bat



Awwww.....Sweet!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Happy Hallow-ween



Happy Halloween to you too!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Ethereal Cooler



TommersP wrote:I would drink this but it's not corporeal!



Oh....groan... the pun of it all!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: No Treats for You



Hey! How can I possibly vote for a shirt that says I can't have any treats? Well.... I see a bunch of other people voted for it... oh... okay. Don't need the calories anyhow...

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Catty Corn



C'est adorable! Candy corn & a kitty cat... two of my favorite subjects!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Seasonal Best Friends



Cute idea!

(My favorite pairing used to be candy corn and m&ms.)

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: The Deathly Halloweens



I don't understand this one... but you sure have my curiosity up. I wonder what I'm missing?

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Unfun Size



lol!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Just Some Hocus Pocus



Wow! There's a lot more colorful design to this than the thumbnail shows. Beautiful! gmv

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Scary Spider



simic wrote:I was going for creepy/cute and it came out better than I expected. But, I had a feeling that it wouldn't get many votes so I made the Droids shirt as well.



It's scary enough to me! But then again, it's hard for me to see the Cuteness factor in a spider... lol

Would make a great Halloween costume, imo

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Soot-Or-Treaters



Awww.... this is really cute! Nice designing too! It reminds me of a children's book illustration...one of my favorite types of art! gmv

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Skully McSkullface



Oooohhhhh.... Scary!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Corny Question



No, I want to take a bunch of you, make pretty designs with you, and THEN eat you!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: 9 Lives in the Balance



Clever designing!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: A Good Boo(k)



Wow!

I think you should have made the fancy "Glow in the Dark" part the thumbnail... would probably have gotten more votes by now.

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Air Horseman



The pumpkin face looks so sad...

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Oh, Sew Scary



A punny ghost that sews... Fun!

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Grump Reaper



Reminds me of me when I have to get up too early in the morning...lol

Inatangle


quality posts: 120 Private Messages Inatangle
Re: Boo Hiss



Ah... Ugly Sweaters, the Halloween Version! gmv

transformingegg


quality posts: 7 Private Messages transformingegg
Inatangle wrote:No, I want to take a bunch of you, make pretty designs with you, and THEN eat you!



LOL

thatquietgir1


quality posts: 5 Private Messages thatquietgir1
Inatangle wrote:No, I never have. Thanks for the clip!



Oh my gosh! It's really a great movie, you should check it out! Thanks for the nice comment