IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
eHalcyon wrote:Not much outrage tonight. Maybe everyone is burnt out from the last shirt.

If I was going to trace an image, I would at least have the decency to go to the tenth page of results. Eleventh, even!



I'm lazy. Second for me. Third, tops.

ChefRAZ


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ChefRAZ
marzipanapple wrote:Honestly, I'm sure someone(many someones, even) would gladly volunteer to do this for them if they couldn't do it themselves. Google is such a useful tool and I think most of us artists are more than happy to oblige to prevent things like this from happening..



WOOT has said before that they take this thing very seriously, they stopped the print on dirty jobs so they might do something here but it's the weekend so I wait.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
eHalcyon wrote:If I was going to trace an image, I would at least have the decency to go to the tenth page of results. Eleventh, even!



The sad thing (if it turns out that someone owns the rights to this image) is that there are tons of nearly identical free stock photos on various sites that could have been used. I hope it turns out that this is one of them and that I just couldn't find it.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
IndependentVik wrote:(note: the following assumes the designer did, in fact, do something wrong. I'm not saying at this point that he definitely did)

Take a stand? You mean by stopping the printing of the shirt and penalizing the designer in question, all in an open and transparent fashion?

I would really dig such a result, but I won't be staying up through the night holding my breath waiting for it to happen.



Yeah, there's still a chance that the image is public domain, or even possibly owned by the guy. And Woot probably won't do anything big (if anything at all), since I doubt the owner of the photo would be willing to spend the time to get into litigation. It's unlikely they'll be a corporate giant... or a heavy metal band.

bluewave12 wrote:http://www.all4parties.co.uk/pinata/donkey.htm



So do they own the image? Hm.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
IndependentVik wrote:I'm lazy. Second for me. Third, tops.



I said 10 because it's the last number available for easy clicking from the initial page of results. Eleven would be if I was feeling feisty enough to click the "Next" button once more afterwards.

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IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
eHalcyon wrote:I said 10 because it's the last number available for easy clicking from the initial page of results. Eleven would be if I was feeling feisty enough to click the "Next" button once more afterwards.



I bow before your copious forethought

marzipanapple


quality posts: 7 Private Messages marzipanapple
eHalcyon wrote:Not much outrage tonight. Maybe everyone is burnt out from the last shirt.

If I was going to trace an image, I would at least have the decency to go to the tenth page of results. Eleventh, even!



Haha, at *least* the tenth. At least.

Edit: Though, I have to say(getting back to the shirt), hopefully the candies are original? Some consider tracing a 'guide' for the rest of their work.. I knew an awesome artist who would trace the line work of real pictures and then color the bejeezus out of them. She was an awesome colorist (though I suppose this is a liiitle bit different).

ChefRAZ


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ChefRAZ

Iseen on the news awhile back that some pagent winner modeled some prom dresses and a graphic designer used her photo on an adult club. She's suing the club owners but they said they didn't have any control on what photo the guy used.

ztfreep


quality posts: 5 Private Messages ztfreep

Copyright, buying permissions and all of that stuff:

1) At some point SOME kind of line has to be drawn. If I draw the outline of a horse and do an half-way decent job it is going to look like a horse. But then, how many tens of thousands of other images of the outline of horses are there in the world? And should I worry about copyright? Cripes, do we have to go all the way back to the Caves of Lascaux in France to say who was the original author of the "horse image"??? (pardon my exaggeration, please)

To me, there has to be two elements involved: 1) the original, whatever it was, has to be sufficiently novel (as in patents) or distinguishable or the like so that you look at it and say "Oh yea, thus-and-so obviously painted that." Kind of like the Mona Lisa. You have to get pretty far away in characteristics to consider your work non-derivative.

2) and then there is the point of it being derivative at all. My random-forces-existing-in-the-galaxy-affecting-all-things (uh, this is supposed to be a non-religious version of the word "God"), there are just simply not that many variations on the "pinata" theme - or even one that shows an "x-ray" of what stuff is inside of it. So, if an image has become commonplace, then there can't really BE any question of copyright because, in effect, there is no undeniable source.

Do you have the SLIGHTEST idea how utterly determined the Band-Aid(tm) people are about defending their trademark at this late a point? Their lawyers are absolutely ruthless. You'd better not copy THAT name!

These, of course, are two extremes of one metric, that of imitation & whether or not one must pay homage to the original artist, or obtain their permission, or pay them a license (or whatever) OR well, gosh, it is just like everyone else's so you just can't complain.

3) The true problem is where, for a given image, do you put your finger on the line. Unfortunately, this is totally a matter of opinion (actually, it isn't entirely so: programs like d'peg can compare two JPGs, come up with a similarity index, and ask you if the two shots are actually awfully darned close to each other and do you want to drop the duplicate).

So: who is to be the judge who puts their fat finger onto the line of similarity and judge if something is too close to an established artist's work and therefore special consideration need be made?

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
ChefRAZ wrote:WOOT has said before that they take this thing very seriously, they stopped the print on dirty jobs so they might do something here but it's the weekend so I wait.



IMHO, they only stopped the print on Dirty Jobs because someone with money owned the rights to the stolen images.

prateeko


quality posts: 70 Private Messages prateeko

I don't see the exact resemblance you guys are talking about. The picture is a generic pinata. The artist could easily have bought one and turned it at a common angle (as it is in the picture and gone from there). The shape is not copyrightable and the thing that would prove it is infringement (colors and outer texture) are different.

Seems like much ado about nothing. I'm not a lawyer and I could go into a courtroom and prove it's not copyright infringement. I doubt woot is worried.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
marzipanapple wrote:Haha, at *least* the tenth. At least.

Edit: Though, I have to say(getting back to the shirt), hopefully the candies are original? Some consider tracing a 'guide' for the rest of their work.. I knew an awesome artist who would trace the line work of real pictures and then color the bejeezus out of them. She was an awesome colorist (though I suppose this is a liiitle bit different).



Yeah, I said the same of the candy earlier on. Hmm... nothing jumps out at me, but it's hard to say.

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eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
prateeko wrote:I don't see the exact resemblance you guys are talking about. The picture is a generic pinata. The artist could easily have bought one and turned it at a common angle (as it is in the picture and gone from there). The shape is not copyrightable and the thing that would prove it is infringement (colors and outer texture) are different.

Seems like much ado about nothing. I'm not a lawyer and I could go into a courtroom and prove it's not copyright infringement. I doubt woot is worried.



Really? Looking at the overlayed image, you don't think it's a trace? Not even with the mistaken bump on the back there that ramyb pointed out, and the remarkable fashion in which the lines of the drawing follow all the little frays and frazzles of the photo?

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IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
prateeko wrote:
Seems like much ado about nothing. I'm not a lawyer and I could go into a courtroom and prove it's not copyright infringement. I doubt woot is worried.



The way the picture lines up . . . I dunno, man, it looks pretty damning.

remotelyco


quality posts: 0 Private Messages remotelyco
ramyb wrote:The sad thing (if it turns out that someone owns the rights to this image) is that there are tons of nearly identical free stock photos on various sites that could have been used. I hope it turns out that this is one of them and that I just couldn't find it.



I checked out the artist's porfolio...looking at all the stock graphics, it makes me wonder how much if anything is originally drawn...

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
remotelyco wrote:I checked out the artist's porfolio...looking at all the stock graphics, it makes me wonder how much if anything is originally drawn...



Maybe my eye's not so keen, but I don't immediately see anything that strikes me as stock graphics. Then again, I wouldn't have suspected this of being traced either.

On a different note, I had no idea this was by the guy who did Yummy Knuckles.

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ChefRAZ


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ChefRAZ

his porfolio has this




i wonder if these two are copies?

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
ChefRAZ wrote:his porfolio has this:



i wonder if [the above is a copy of this]



You had the images flipped around so I fixed it.

Hmm. Suspicious, though I don't think it's as clear as the pinata.

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jones21403


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jones21403

What do you know? Diecinueve de Mayo is my birthday. Maybe someone will get this for me so I CAN wear it then. *Hint Hint* Woot Staff.

isparabola


quality posts: 8 Private Messages isparabola
eHalcyon wrote:You had the images flipped around so I fixed it.

Hmm. Suspicious, though I don't think it's as clear as the pinata.



Yeah that one doesn't look copied. Referenced though.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
isparabola wrote:Yeah that one doesn't look copied. Referenced though.



THANK-YOU. About an hour ago the word "referenced" was on the tip of my tongue but I just couldn't get it. I was twirling around "sourced".

Edit: I'm out for the night. I should have been out a while ago. I won't get a chance to check in again until well after 6pm - hopefully this will all be resolved by then.

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bdsmonkey


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bdsmonkey

OK, it's totally the lone candy poop that only shows up in glow-in-the-dark that swayed me! now I *have* to have it!

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
bdsmonkey wrote:OK, it's totally the lone candy poop that only shows up in glow-in-the-dark that swayed me! now I *have* to have it!



Hope it's not too late to warn you, but the version that shows the candy is actually the regular version I believe (the one with the lights on), and the one with just the pinata showing is the glow in the dark (which doesn't make any sense, I know)

mandy2610


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mandy2610

DAMN you shirt.woot!

I told myself I wasn't going to be spending any more money unless it's for food purposes to save for my trip to Europe.

Had to have one mainly for the glow in the darkness.

bdsmonkey


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bdsmonkey
ramyb wrote:Hope it's not too late to warn you, but the version that shows the candy is actually the regular version I believe (the one with the lights on), and the one with just the pinata showing is the glow in the dark (which doesn't make any sense, I know)



ya know, I was reading the comments, and I went back and looked, and I *think* the G-I-T-D version is the one where the candy appears, from looking at the pic which flips back and forth between the two - the electric glowy blue makes me think that's the G-I-T-D. I guess I will find out when my shirt comes! but thanks!

Pufferfishy


quality posts: 39 Private Messages Pufferfishy

The condition of "not yet busted" is some sweet irony given the allegations of tracing/image thievery

You've been put on posting probation for this post

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
eHalcyon wrote:Really? Looking at the overlayed image, you don't think it's a trace? Not even with the mistaken bump on the back there that ramyb pointed out, and the remarkable fashion in which the lines of the drawing follow all the little frays and frazzles of the photo?



This is probably why there is a lack of outrage.

Personally, I thought this was pretty stupid the second I saw that the glow was used to no worthwhile effect... had it been an x-ray, that would have been cool. But if we've got another yay broccoli, that makes it even worse.

And it's ALWAYS when Joel's on vacation. Between this and steampunk week, I'm seriously doubting someone's competence to run a hairdrier by themselves, let alone a shirt site.

lsngstrk


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lsngstrk

wasn't going to buy it. but same last name of me and the designer sold me.

remotelyco


quality posts: 0 Private Messages remotelyco
AdderXYU wrote:

And it's ALWAYS when Joel's on vacation. Between this and steampunk week, I'm seriously doubting someone's competence to run a hairdrier by themselves, let alone a shirt site.



LOL! Maybe they do it so that Joel won't leave them alone anymore...

GeneralSpecifik


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GeneralSpecifik

I was all set for an awesome shirt, until I read the discussion here - thank you ramyb for pointing out what should have been obvious to me. (I own Viva Pinata). I have put my money where my mouth is and I have contacted Woot! service to cancel my t-shirt order.

I hope to hear from them soon.

jones21403


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jones21403
GeneralSpecifik wrote:I was all set for an awesome shirt, until I read the discussion here - thank you ramyb for pointing out what should have been obvious to me. (I own Viva Pinata). I have put my money where my mouth is and I have contacted Woot! service to cancel my t-shirt order.

I hope to hear from them soon.



This design has nothing to do with "Viva Pinata" AT ALL. The controversy is over the fact that it was traced from a photo of a pinata that is the first result if you Google "pinata". And for pointing it out, the credit should go to "robotica" who was the first one that noticed.

sdsnowbrdr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sdsnowbrdr

"Want to freak out your fellow Cinco de Mayo partygoers?"


Next year..

More great timing Woot !

matthew


quality posts: 20 Private Messages matthew
prodigy311 wrote:I love Sammy's Cabo Wabo. What's wrong with you guys?



DIAMOND DAVE 4EVR

ztfreep


quality posts: 5 Private Messages ztfreep

Wow! At least 9 pages cut down to 6 - there must have been (insert large smile here) a lot of useless dross with only the occasion micro-nugget of gold. Or gold-like substances. Whatever.

tabrazinski


quality posts: 2 Private Messages tabrazinski
AdderXYU wrote:This is probably why there is a lack of outrage.

Personally, I thought this was pretty stupid the second I saw that the glow was used to no worthwhile effect... had it been an x-ray, that would have been cool. But if we've got another yay broccoli, that makes it even worse.

And it's ALWAYS when Joel's on vacation. Between this and steampunk week, I'm seriously doubting someone's competence to run a hairdrier by themselves, let alone a shirt site.



does he take charge of quality control? i know that there is a huge amount of data on the internet and it would be impossible for them to catch everything, you would think that woot would do a cursory sweep of the major ones. like google imaging "pinata" when that is the subject matter. also, as an artist (the paper and canvas kind), can't do this digital stuff... kind of appalling, and really really lazy. like people have said, pinatas all look pretty much the same, and they are not exceptionally difficult or intricate to draw. couldn't freehand it? putting in that little bit extra time isn't worth the money?

tabrazinski


quality posts: 2 Private Messages tabrazinski
matthew wrote:DIAMOND DAVE 4EVR



this post... this post kinda annoys me. making it blatantly obvious that woot staff is reading the thread and choosing to ignore commenting on the content of the thread that the majority of us are concerned with. not looking for a proclamation. even a "we're looking into it" would make me perfectly happy.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
tabrazinski wrote:does he take charge of quality control? i know that there is a huge amount of data on the internet and it would be impossible for them to catch everything, you would think that woot would do a cursory sweep of the major ones. like google imaging "pinata" when that is the subject matter. also, as an artist (the paper and canvas kind), can't do this digital stuff... kind of appalling, and really really lazy. like people have said, pinatas all look pretty much the same, and they are not exceptionally difficult or intricate to draw. couldn't freehand it? putting in that little bit extra time isn't worth the money?



As far as anyone can tell, no one at woot takes charge of quality control ;)

Let's be honest, no company can find EVERYTHING. But it'd be nice to believe woot wasn't so easily fooled as to get burned by the first google result TWICE. Just like it'd be nice to believe woot cared. About anything artistic.

dolphin76


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dolphin76

I was all set to buy this for my daughter, until I read through the comments. WHY wouldn't the candy be part of the GITD...in other words, I think the GITD should be reversed.

And then the potential copyright issue...yeah, I think I'll hold off on this one.

Thank you, as always to the diligent and regular posters who catch on to this stuff so quickly and bring it to our attention!

w: 10 w.w: 15 s.w: 60 so.w: 3 k.w: 7

KaylaJ


quality posts: 22 Private Messages KaylaJ
tabrazinski wrote:this post... this post kinda annoys me. making it blatantly obvious that woot staff is reading the thread and choosing to ignore commenting on the content of the thread that the majority of us are concerned with. not looking for a proclamation. even a "we're looking into it" would make me perfectly happy.



gotta admit that post is much better than that one staffer who told posters to get their panties out of a bunch on dirty jobs cause they had seen all that artist's work.

as for the shirt, no pinata is ever filled with that much candy!

Azzyally


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Azzyally

So if this shirt does get pulled are we going to have another impromptu random day like the last time?

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