Shirt.Woot

cruelnv wrote:I agree that honest and real is the best way to give criticism most of the time. How else will someone get better? Constructive criticism is not necessarily "nice" criticism, however. The stuff you have in class isn't constructive nor is it criticism. It's just commentary. Constructive criticism can be harsh, so long as it is useful.

The problem is that there are too many people on here give criticism without the "constructive" part. That's just pointless. Someone isn't going to change their work if they are just told it embrangles. They need advice on what should change.

For instance, some people said that this design needs a better band name, doesn't look enough like a band shirt, should have a different tour name, looks too much like Pokemon, etc. This is criticism that the artist could choose to use; even if they say it in a mean way. If someone just says they hate it, then that's pretty useless for everyone.

As I have said before, if something is irredeemable, what do you say to "critique" it?

I have told many a constituent that their work is great, because there was nothing I could think of to improve it, and it erred on the side of well done. To me, that critique is one of "go for it. It might not do well, but it's worth trying." On the other hand, though, sometimes there is work that would need to be totally torn apart to be better. And in that case, "this is unwearable hooey" seems to work better. I can't say this or that needs improvement if every last bit is horrible. The best advice I can give is that it is simply not good in any way, and requires being either tossed or fully reimagined.

Re: The Liberty Bells

they look like pants...

eHalcyon wrote:I looked back over your initial comments. I think you became a "bad guy" because you weren't very clear about your position. It sounded like you were arguing that people should only say nice things. You also made the "try to do it better" argument, which is an oft-used retort that really doesn't work. If such criteria could invalidate negative opinions, why do positive opinions get a pass?

Maybe I wasn't clear, hopefully people who realize what my position is by this point. Pointless insults and complaining, bad, criticism and feedback opinions, good.

A positive opinion is a compliment, a negative one is just being rude. Not negative feedback, but a negative opinion like "thus embrangles". Opinions like that are basically somebody just being a jerk. That is why positive opinions are a pass. That tells the designer, you have done a "good job" and "I like what you did". The designer can then take that as, I'm doing the right thing, keep on doing the right thing.

AdderXYU wrote:It is all about the blatant intention of this shirt. I don't know how people can see today's Abe shirt as racist and offensive, but can't read any sort of subtext into this one.

The pander bears are RACIST.

1. Pandas are commonly associated with China.

2. In terms of the derby, pandering has come to mean laying aside artistic integrity in an attempt to make a quick buck. In short, it is an action of greed.

3. Chinese people have a reputation for being frugal, stereotyped as haggling over every last penny, etc.

This design enforces a negative stereotype of Chinese people, saying that all we care about is money. I am highly offended.




Disclaimer: I'm kidding. Please don't go into a hissy fit.

eHalcyon wrote:I disagree. Criticism is constructive if it seeks to give direction and offer something that the artist can use. Whether the artist uses it or not is a separate matter.

"I hate it" is not very constructive, but I don't really begrudge comments like that. At least the artist will consider changing something. What would really help is if you provide a reason - WHY do you hate it?

But the comments that are nothing but insults are not constructive in the slightest. It is not helpful to say something like "you are not worthy to be called a designer; nothing you do will ever be art; go die in a hole".

If the person TAKES that advice, I would argue it is INCREDIBLY constructive.

Friends of mine recall when Staind was a local band that got booed every time they played anywhere. Think how much better life would be if Staind had taken that advice!

mikenytola wrote:Maybe I wasn't clear, hopefully people who realize what my position is by this point. Pointless insults and complaining, bad, criticism and feedback opinions, good.

A positive opinion is a compliment, a negative one is just being rude. Not negative feedback, but a negative opinion like "thus embrangles". Opinions like that are basically somebody just being a jerk. That is why positive opinions are a pass. That tells the designer, you have done a "good job" and "I like what you did". The designer can then take that as, I'm doing the right thing, keep on doing the right thing.

No, I was just saying that the "try to do a better job" argument doesn't work because it applies just as easily to positive comments. The argument is basically saying "if you can't design better, then your opinion is invalid". If it applies to negative opinions, it should apply to positive opinions as well. But really, it should not apply at all.

homeschoolwinner wrote:Yeah, pretty much. Pinkerton is a masterpiece (even though Rivers himself said he hates it) and I love the blue album. Green album was not bad. Puts me in a good mood. Maladroit and Make Believe were okay, they have their good moments.

As for the new Red album...uhhhh...nevermind, no comment.

Apparently I need to spend more time with Make Believe, because I liked Red more. Granted, I didn't LIKE Red very much at all... Other than that, I think you're spot on.

Weezer has reached that plateau where I never want to see them live again. I can't imagine a scenario where I will hear enough good songs to make it worth my time and money. Which is a shame, because they were pretty spot-on in better days.

AdderXYU wrote: ...Also, that it is a woot-related joke alone, to me, means it should be rejected for being woot-related. That is true of anyone who would submit it.

It is all about the blatant intention of this shirt...

I didn't realize that a shirt couldn't be woot-related as far as things discussed on woot. I thought it was simply the site's design and function (using "woot" or this for instance). That's a bit dissapointing as having a shirt that implies you're fan of woot (by subject matter and not just owning a shirt from the site) would be kind of cool in my opinion.

AdderXYU wrote:If the person TAKES that advice, I would argue it is INCREDIBLY constructive.

While that may help with over-population, I'm not so sure that's the best way to develop someone's talent (or lack-there-of as the case may be). I'm fairly certain the majority of great work comes from people who used to suck at one point. Though, to be honest, there are a few artists whose work I could have done without (never was a huge fan of DaDa).

Tanapangarap wrote:Heh, the subtext does it for me.

same here

Re: The Pretensions

*snort... just noticed it's also CMYK... awesome.

Re: The Pretensions

This needs a pair of bored, crossed arms. The true sign of an indie show.

AdderXYU wrote:
Friends of mine recall when Staind was a local band that got booed every time they played anywhere. Think how much better life would be if Staind had taken that advice!

Wow. If only... though, if our luck is anything like it is here with successful originality in art, some other band would just step to take their place. But what excuse do we have if we give up?

krankykitty wrote:I sort of have to agree with this. I always thought the Korn shirts were dumb, and the joke here doesn't quite override that first impression either.

I can't argue against the joke being dumb, but I certainly can name a number of shirts woot has printed that could have easily been made by anyone with a marker or fabric paint. On that count, it would be nothing new.

Soooo who knows how many emo kids it takes to screw in a light bulb?


***

None, silly! They just sit in the dark and cry.

hehe

Yes!!! Good stuff x

Didn't notice the guitar at first... clean design! Good stuff x

gargrazz wrote:Maybe I'll post a design for the front here. And if people want, they can get it silkscreened onto it after they buy the shirt. Hmmm...

So if Woot printed 2 sides for derby entries, then this is probably the design I'd put on the front of it (I know the effort was minimal - it's just to fill out the front).



If the design wins, I'll post the print ready of this somewhere so you can have it done if that's the sort of thing you're into. Since it's a single color, it wouldn't be too expensive to get a custom screen shop to add it.

Nobody voting for the shirt should expect this front design anywhere on the product if it does happen to survive the fog. This is just for the giggles.

ISO30 wrote:Whoa, deja vu.

Yes, but black, I think, is the least bad.

redesnot wrote:as rule i never look at any entrys to the derby until ive finished my own submission.

suuuuure...

Re: The Doodle Brothers

AWESOME!!!!

jabberjaws13 wrote:his take on it was something from Demitri Martin.....

"i like rainbows, but i'm not most excellent. so now when i wear a shirt with a rainbow i have to put "not most excellent" below it. but i am not against people I love either, so below that i put "but supportive". it embrangles that one group of people had to take all refracted light....greedy bastards!"

Lol, yeah, I've seen that standup by him. And I was still confused until I remembered the woot filters were messing it up.

I know it's early yet, but if this doesn't print and you print it somewhere else later on please message me! :]

Re: Never Mind Ye Bollards...

Good one! Voted.

Awesome!!!

Re: [url=http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=32863]Stings

I also like it because I could totally see this as a real tshirt, and a pretty sweet one at that. This is classy yet family-friendly at the same time, and the colors are great.

Strings and stings, a surrealist bee-violin, trust me the votes you got do not reflect the true quality of this shirt.

Re: The Sex Drugs

It now looks like the robot is advancing on the space bunnies with his clubs held high.

cruelnv wrote:I didn't realize that a shirt couldn't be woot-related as far as things discussed on woot. I thought it was simply the site's design and function (using "woot" or this for instance). That's a bit dissapointing as having a shirt that implies you're fan of woot (by subject matter and not just owning a shirt from the site) would be kind of cool in my opinion.

Ask and ye shall receive! This one never gets reckoned, but it's hidden and only the coolest wooters can have it! ;D

Re: Iron and Wine? No, Bread and Wine!

Absolutely genius! GMV!!!

Re: Galactic Riffed

i don't love the type but this should be doing better than it is. great design.

imsochady wrote:Well thank you sir!

Guys, you see, Drakxxxxxxx apporves!

Grats on the fog!!! :D

/cheer

eHalcyon wrote:The pander bears are RACIST.

1. Pandas are commonly associated with China.

2. In terms of the derby, pandering has come to mean laying aside artistic integrity in an attempt to make a quick buck. In short, it is an action of greed.

3. Chinese people have a reputation for being frugal, stereotyped as haggling over every last penny, etc.

This design enforces a negative stereotype of Chinese people, saying that all we care about is money. I am highly offended.




Disclaimer: I'm kidding. Please don't go into a hissy fit.

No no no. You've got it all wrong. 2 and 3 are about us Jews!

Disclaimer: I'm Jewish so get into a hissy fit and I'll raise your rent.

xtinaftw wrote:Grats on the fog!!! :D

/cheer

I bet you meant "Hotness." Hell yes! My design is of hotness! In your faces designs of ugliness! Hahaha, I joke . Thanks new voters!

Re: The Suffixeses

Yes, it's at worst a double entendre and more than likely merely a result of my perverted 20 year old mind, but I'm not sure I could buy a shirt that says Happy Endings Tour on it...

cruelnv wrote:While that may help with over-population, I'm not so sure that's the best way to develop someone's talent (or lack-there-of as the case may be). I'm fairly certain the majority of great work comes from people who used to suck at one point. Though, to be honest, there are a few artists whose work I could have done without (never was a huge fan of DaDa).

But how do they get better? If an artist never listens to criticism and assumes what they are doing is perfect, then they will never change, and the art they are producing will remain bad. Criticism helps to make that artist better, especially but not exclusively, when given by another artist of the same medium.

Apologies for the double post. Please delete.

jaredio wrote:I dislike their shirts even more.

So...why are you glad this is out of the Fog, then? What exactly has a solid shot/is in the fog that you find superior to this?

roricha084 wrote:I also believe this to be one of the best designs in the derby, but almost didnt click on it bc of the thumb... maybe make the thumb of one of the band members so people can see the incredible detail of your work... GMV, keep submitting!!!

I always have a hard time coming up with which areas to crop for the thumbnail. I made some new ones. Take one down pass it around!

mikenytola wrote:Maybe I wasn't clear, hopefully people who realize what my position is by this point. Pointless insults and complaining, bad, criticism and feedback opinions, good.

A positive opinion is a compliment, a negative one is just being rude. Not negative feedback, but a negative opinion like "thus embrangles". Opinions like that are basically somebody just being a jerk. That is why positive opinions are a pass. That tells the designer, you have done a "good job" and "I like what you did". The designer can then take that as, I'm doing the right thing, keep on doing the right thing.

Why does the positive opinion carry the weight of "keep going" when the negative opinion gets no weight? Shouldn't it carry the weight of "don't keep going"?

As for constructive criticism, I would agree that at large critiques should be preferable to rabid complaining, mudslinging, and accusation throwing, but if a designer makes no attempt to actually take any of that to heart, then those same set of people still get to be as vocal about it as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, let the "complainers" complain. They obviously haven't dented Ramy's popularity in the last half of a year. Don't like it, steer WELL clear of the discussion for Ramy's entries.

Contrary to other beliefs, people like Adder, etc., DON'T just tear people down. They DO ride designers for not giving their best or ignoring constructive criticism, and I feel that's deserved. Whether or not it is HEEDED is an entirely different issue.