Shirt.Woot

paulkremer wrote:This would be so much better if the turtle were moving or crossing a finish line or something, as if the turtle shot the bunny right before he went across the finish and is currently passing him.

Turtle drive-bys are a serious crime.
I don't appreciate seki making light of it, either.

lonelypond wrote:Tortoise also to be awarded Nobel Peace Prize?!?

No... he has to be in office for at least two weeks...

Part of me is glad that the design was edited so that it makes at least a little sense. Part of me is outraged that the derby winner got to modify the shirt after winning rather than having to resubmit during the derby.

All of me is disappointed that bland shirt wins again. And it'll sell out, giving them no incentive to encourage creativity.

xazothia wrote:So you're saying *woot* changed the turtle's stance (front and back legs both), added more grass, AND changed the color of the tortoise?

I am only willing to believe one of those things.

Maybe it's already been said, but she also added more wispy smokey bits to the gun and the bunny.

xazothia wrote:That's not the issue, the issue is that there are enough differences between this and her derby entry that they are not the same.

at first glance, I didn't even notice a difference...

As noted while voting by a lot of people, the story revolves around a tortoise and a hare, not a turtle and a bunny.

Turtles need to be in water the majority of the time. This turtle is going to die of dehydration before it even reaches the finishing line!

ssjbryces wrote:Part of me is glad that the design was edited so that it makes at least a little sense. Part of me is outraged that the derby winner got to modify the shirt after winning rather than having to resubmit during the derby.

All of me is disappointed that bland shirt wins again. And it'll sell out, giving them no incentive to encourage creativity.

In most of pop culture... familiarity, with a twist is what sells...

And the worst thing is that I am 100% sure ramy's whack-a-mole shirt will print tomorrow and we get to do this wonderful discussion again.

It's really sad when a company like woot stops caring about quality and allows garbage like this to print just because it's profitable.

There were a ton of really awesome shirts this week, some which I bet would have sold just as well as these shirts.

Something seriously needs to be done. It's ruining the site for a lot of people.

JadenKale wrote:I wanted others to be clear of my position. Too often, lately, I have been criticized for being too sarcastic, myself.

I, for one, enjoy your recent sarcastic streak.

Beffy wrote: Unless someone would rather in not be a democracy, and just have some random person pick their favorites :P

Given how well every other site on the internet works with this method, I see no reason to dislike it. Other sites give the world diverse and interesting designs. Woot gives us this.

You are not making money off of this stuff. Woot is. For anyone who isn't woot to say "who cares if it is making money" is incredibly shallow and disrespectful of real people doing real work. Woot can be an ass all they want, and be wrong, but it's their site. For you to be complacent about that, and accept that people should be allowed to profit, and profit big, off of work that has no worth except a quick buck, you are insulting every human, designer or not, who has EVER done good work by saying they deserve to have their jobs, their raises, their advancements and opportunities given to people who do less but are more liked. Nowhere in Democracy does it state that someone fully unqualified to be president can run and win. It is not wrong to have woot have a comprehensive quality control battery for their entries, as EVERY democracy evaluates what goes up for the big votes.

ambergreen wrote:So disappointing. I don't usually want to be the hating hater that hates the hated, but srsly...I have bought one shirt since March, and have almost one every month prior to January. I am no longer the target audience, and my money is sad.

I'm in the same boat. One shirt since January for me.

bethlehemstarr wrote:I don't understand how you can possibly think that it is 'fair' to change your design in a way that is rather drastic. The fact that the turtle now has a sense of motion where it did not before is a big deal.

I disagree. I agree that in theory it is wrong to be able to change a shirt around however you like when the voters don't get to decide on it, but in the case, all it does is *improve* the shirt. The focus of the shirt is the fact that the turtle blew up the hare, not whether or not the turtle happens to be moving or not. Maybe it had just finished turning around and was stopping to catch its breath when she drew it before, and now it's walking. I think it's a minor enough change.

The turtle would be so much better if it's shell was a box....BLAHRHARHAR!!! I'm dum, and I've had too much coffee now...-toot-

Beffy wrote:Unless someone would rather in not be a democracy, and just have some random person pick their favorites :P

America isn't a democracy! Popular vote means nothing in the election of the president, for example. We have an Electoral College because the Founding Fathers didn't trust the American people with the power of democracy. Perhaps they were right. If designs like this can print every week, maybe we don't deserve the right of democracy.

warhawksrock05 wrote:I, for one, enjoy your recent sarcastic streak.

Are you being sarcastic about enjoying his sarcastic streak... or are you being sarcastic about the fact that it's recent sarcasm... do two sarcasms make a truism...?

Earlysong wrote:I disagree. I agree that in theory it is wrong to be able to change a shirt around however you like when the voters don't get to decide on it, but in the case, all it does is *improve* the shirt. The focus of the shirt is the fact that the turtle blew up the hare, not whether or not the turtle happens to be moving or not. Maybe it had just finished turning around and was stopping to catch its breath when she drew it before, and now it's walking. I think it's a minor enough change.

If it improves the shirt, why the hell didn't she have to resub like every other honest artist? She lied about how she wasn't going to change the shirt and resub...and then freaking changed the shirt! How can you get any sleazier?

colinm09 wrote:I'm sick of seeing Seki shirts every Friday night.

Yeah no kidding. Strangely enough we hadn't seen it in a long time until they made it so you couldn't see votes being applied to entries in the fog. Suddenly she and Ramy are getting printed every week again.

colinm09 wrote:If it improves the shirt, why the hell didn't she have to resub like every other honest artist? She lied about how she wasn't going to change the shirt and resub...and then freaking changed the shirt! How can you get any sleazier?

Maybe she changed her mind? Idk. Lying about it is definitely not cool.

I admit that resubbing would have been the most morally sound option.

Why don't those of you that haven't bought a shirt here since January go somewhere else to buy your shirts ? Seems like a simple enough solution to me.

colinm09 wrote:America isn't a democracy! Popular vote means nothing in the election of the president, for example. We have an Electoral College because the Founding Fathers didn't trust the American people with the power of democracy. Perhaps they were right. If designs like this can print every week, maybe we don't deserve the right of democracy.

Here Here... We are actually a constitutional republic... True democracy promotes popularism which ultimately leads to socialism and eventual dictatorship... kinda-like shirt.woot...

Earlysong wrote:I disagree. I agree that in theory it is wrong to be able to change a shirt around however you like when the voters don't get to decide on it, but in the case, all it does is *improve* the shirt. The focus of the shirt is the fact that the turtle blew up the hare, not whether or not the turtle happens to be moving or not. Maybe it had just finished turning around and was stopping to catch its breath when she drew it before, and now it's walking. I think it's a minor enough change.

Just because the changes were for the better this time does not change the fact that they shouldn't be allowed. Consistency is what is needed, and a policy like this leaves to much room for exploitation. This isn't the first time that changes have been made between derby and print by ramky, the last time it was very much to the detriment of the shirt (in my opinion), this time it helped a little. Too much bad can come from the freedom to make changes between submission and print to justify in my mind letting it be allowed.

isparabola wrote:And you know from seki's/ramy's perspective.

What an awesome way to make a living. Design a really bad t-shirt each week and get 100,000+ dollars.

I applaud them for finding a system to exploit and do it well.

But seriously at least put SOME effort into your designs. We've seen ramy do it before, it can be done.

I know a way to fix it, don't pay em. Pride should be enough, that way only the die hard artists will stick around because they want better for the whole community.

TheyKilledKenny wrote:In most of pop culture... familiarity, with a twist is what sells...

Why aspire to greatness when mediocrity sells for so much less effort?

AdderXYU wrote:Given how well every other site on the internet works with this method, I see no reason to dislike it. Other sites give the world diverse and interesting designs. Woot gives us this.

You are not making money off of this stuff. Woot is. For anyone who isn't woot to say "who cares if it is making money" is incredibly shallow and disrespectful of real people doing real work. Woot can be an ass all they want, and be wrong, but it's their site. For you to be complacent about that, and accept that people should be allowed to profit, and profit big, off of work that has no worth except a quick buck, you are insulting every human, designer or not, who has EVER done good work by saying they deserve to have their jobs, their raises, their advancements and opportunities given to people who do less but are more liked. Nowhere in Democracy does it state that someone fully unqualified to be president can run and win. It is not wrong to have woot have a comprehensive quality control battery for their entries, as EVERY democracy evaluates what goes up for the big votes.

But this is how Democracy and economy work. In elections, people rarely vote for the best candidate, they vote for who they "like" the most, or who they are told to like the most. It doesn't matter how hard you work, if you can get by and do well with minimal work, most people will do just that. People are lazy, and people don't care. Unqualified people run for president all the time, and have won.

That being said, I personally like the Democracy side of this. And while theres only a few Rami/Seki shirts I like, and only one that I have bought, what they do works. If you're looking for artistic work, I suppose you should go to another site because most people aren't going to vote based on how well a shirt is drawn, or how much on theme it is, or how well executed it is. They're going to vote based on how much they personally like it, and it's wearability. Which is different for everyone, and obviously wooters enjoy the shirts (barring there isn't some scandal going on, but I don't see how you could profit from buying your own shirts).

Roboram wrote:I know a way to fix it, don't pay em. Pride should be enough, that way only the die hard artists will stick around because they want better for the whole community.

Srsly tell woot about this proposal... I'd love some more creative shirts... and woot'd love a bit more money (if they would indeed still sell).

Nbr8sGirl wrote:Why don't those of you that haven't bought a shirt here since January go somewhere else to buy your shirts ? Seems like a simple enough solution to me.

We do. But because we care about art and artists being properly represented, we have an obligation for two things: first, to check here anyway to make sure we don't miss the rare awesome tee, and second, to fight however weakly we can to improve the site we used to love.

Anyone who will create a quagmire is loatheful, but anyone who will abandon a quagmire is doubly so.

Nbr8sGirl wrote:Why don't those of you that haven't bought a shirt here since January go somewhere else to buy your shirts ? Seems like a simple enough solution to me.

I have.

It's just a part of me (probably the part that bought some 25 shirts on this site in the last year prior) keeps coming back every so often to see if woot has finally wised up in the way that Adder, JadenKale, and so many others have. And they still haven't, and I am sad.

I really hope deadfrog's shirt prints, that's all I'm gonna say.

AdderXYU wrote:
Anyone who will create a quagmire is loatheful, but anyone who will abandon a quagmire is doubly so.

Someone's on fire tonight.

Earlysong wrote:I disagree. I agree that in theory it is wrong to be able to change a shirt around however you like when the voters don't get to decide on it, but in the case, all it does is *improve* the shirt. The focus of the shirt is the fact that the turtle blew up the hare, not whether or not the turtle happens to be moving or not. Maybe it had just finished turning around and was stopping to catch its breath when she drew it before, and now it's walking. I think it's a minor enough change.

I reiterate the fact that she stated that she would not change the shirt, and then changed the shirt. Yes, it 'improves' the shirt, but it is still a change. All the other designers resubmit their shirts when they make a change like that, and allow voters a chance to VOTE on the change. She chose to not do this. Woot chose to allow her to change the shirt. They are both equally culpable.

Note: I do understand that occasionally small changes are made; slight color changes have been done by woot before. Even allowing the design to 'grow' from the voted shirt to the printed shirt... but the changes to this shirt are not small.

while it def improves the shirt, as someone else noted when other people mentioned this in the derby, she seemed to be OK with the drawing, soooo why never say "oh, well if it prints i'll take that into consideration"?.


seki isn't the first they've done this for, but its a bit maddening when you like a shirt and come derby nights you realize that's not exactly what you voted for.

Beffy wrote:But this is how Democracy and economy work. In elections, people rarely vote for the best candidate, they vote for who they "like" the most, or who they are told to like the most. It doesn't matter how hard you work, if you can get by and do well with minimal work, most people will do just that. People are lazy, and people don't care. Unqualified people run for president all the time, and have won.

That being said, I personally like the Democracy side of this. And while theres only a few Rami/Seki shirts I like, and only one that I have bought, what they do works. If you're looking for artistic work, I suppose you should go to another site because most people aren't going to vote based on how well a shirt is drawn, or how much on theme it is, or how well executed it is. They're going to vote based on how much they personally like it, and it's wearability. Which is different for everyone, and obviously wooters enjoy the shirts (barring there isn't some scandal going on, but I don't see how you could profit from buying your own shirts).

Don't you see how wrong that is, though? Just because it's the status quo doesn't mean it's right or that we have to accept it. You can't get anywhere with apathy. If you give up, nothing changes and great artists see their hours upon hours of effort wasted by two hacks who sell out every Friday night.

ssjbryces wrote:Why aspire to greatness when mediocrity sells for so much less effort?

Because that is what artists do... just like car designers make these cool concept cars and then the company puts out another bubble to the masses... people say, hey thats really neat... but I'm gonna go with plain vanilla with a side of Corolla...

Ghaleon256 wrote:Srsly tell woot about this proposal... I'd love some more creative shirts... and woot'd love a bit more money (if they would indeed still sell).

That is an equally horrid proposal. Unless we're simply not paying Ramy and Seki.

Artists should profit from their work. They should not make work for profit. How are you people so unable to think of what is fair for art? Do you not appreciate it enough to think it deserves to have fair principles applied to its production and profit?

Nbr8sGirl wrote:Why don't those of you that haven't bought a shirt here since January go somewhere else to buy your shirts ? Seems like a simple enough solution to me.

You don't usually cure a broken arm with amputation. Better to try to save the arm first.

Meh, I liked the design I voted for better to be honest. Bent leg ruins it.

abreeve wrote:Meh, I liked the design I voted for better to be honest. Bent leg ruins it.

Lol, I was proved wrong.

Nbr8sGirl wrote:Why don't those of you that haven't bought a shirt here since January go somewhere else to buy your shirts ? Seems like a simple enough solution to me.

Because there are many artists here that I really do like and continue to support, even if my measly one account isn't enough to bump them into the fog. I won't abandon Woot until there are no artists left to support.

I also have enjoyed seeing new artists arrive and grow with their designs as they get critiques from some of us who actually care about the design and art. You know, those artists that Resub their designs when they get a good suggestion for improvement.

TheyKilledKenny wrote:Because that is what artists do... just like car designers make these cool concept cars and then the company puts out another bubble to the masses... people say, hey thats really neat... but I'm gonna go with plain vanilla with a side of Corolla...

Now the question is whether or not it's worth spending the time I do on this site, waiting around for that Fudge Ripple.

AdderXYU wrote:That is an equally horrid proposal. Unless we're simply not paying Ramy and Seki.

I thought that was the entire point of the guy I quoted... I totally understand that artists need compensation, I wish there were a way to split up the revenue to the artists that consistently give quality designs but never get printed.

ssjbryces wrote:Now the question is whether or not it's worth spending the time I do on this site, waiting around for that Fudge Ripple.

It's an age-old paradox... though I assume fudge ripple was not around back then...

ccazabon wrote:You're being just as ignorant by stating that people buy seki or ramy's shirts simply because of who designed it. I like 1 or 2 of seki's designs, and maybe 2 or 3 of ramy's. I don't like this one, and was hoping for 3 others to win myself (even a few that didnt make the fog). Stop assuming you know everything about everyone else, just because you and a minority have a dislike for a few 'designers'. I continually see ramy and seki's designs flamed simply because it was they who submitted it.

Not to speak for Adder, because he does that very well himself, but I had to respond to this. First of all, he never said that people were buying her shirts or Ramyb's shirts because of the particular branding. The point (as I understood it) was that the bland, palatable and generally consistent style of art was the problem. Also, using sentences like "Stop assuming you know everything about everyone else" are not going to help your cause. Sounding like you are throwing a tantrum never helps anyone.
To digress slightly, I was kind of a fan of their art, even though I never bought a shirt of theirs. Now, I have seen the light and understand what a destructive force they are, and I'm disillusioned with Woot with not doing something about it.