colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
GlobalWombat wrote:Reality Check: This is a discussion about t-shirt designs.

Even more of a reality check: The best artists have have gone unnoticed since time immemorial.

Thanks for stating the obvious and tacking it on to a truly ridiculous discussion.



What? I don't get your argument. So, since artists have always been ignored (highly debatable), we should just continue to ignore them? I don't quite remember Martin Luther King's speech "I had a dream, but then realized that black people have always been treated as inferior and figured it was for the best."

Just because a design is printing on a shirt doesn't make it inferior. That's elitist talk right there. That's like saying a movie or video game can't be considered a work of art if done well because they're not paintings or literature. Purely nonsense.

-Matt Colin

sekiyoku


quality posts: 18 Private Messages sekiyoku
alphadogginny wrote:If a shirt is sold out on the first day, you can still buy it on Monday right, or Saturday even?



Yes, you can buy it tomorrow by going to this link: http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=11397

When it starts working (midnight) I'll post a larger link on the thread.

Thanks so much for the sellout!

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
colinm09 wrote:What is your complaint about that statement? Are you saying that the purpose of art is to make money? True artists don't care about the pay checks; they do art because it's something they love and want to share with others. That being said, a true artist who makes something worthwhile deserves to be fairly compensated. Loop's 12 Days of Christmas comes to mind as a perfect recent example: hours upon hours had to have been spent on that beautiful design (I looked at her step by step process...it was intimidating) and, as such, she deserves to be compensated for her work. Seki and Ramy crank out designs that I will loosely call art for one purpose: profit. It defeats the purpose of art if the artist is just trying to make a quick buck. They are monstrous people. I don't support cheaters.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to grow up.



I am a working photographer. Most of my work is not work I would do on my free time, the stuff I would call real art. Yet, it pays the bills. Am I no artist now? Ramy and Seki make designs that look good to the majority of people and can thus be called artists.

However, I would like to pose a question to you. While I don't necessarily believe this to be true, what if works such as this were truly the best that Ramy and Seki could create? What if they didn't make the fog? Would you be calling them 'monstrous' (and MASSIVE lol at you saying that over an internet tshirt design competition) then? Would you not be encouraging them to try their hardest and make it in the fog? Yet, when they do, you decide that what they do is no longer art since it is done primarily for profit (another ridonculous statement, as it's impossible to objectively call something created with the purpose of engaging a viewer not art) you appoint yourself judge, jury, and executioner of what exactly are the requirements to be a "REAL ARTIST HURRR". That is far more detrimental to the advance of any artful cause than any shiny design Ramy or Seki could put out.

And where are you getting this cheating stuff? I see no evidence of such, namely that their shirts consistently sell out. If they were cheating and vote spamming (for which they'd have to pay $10 for vote, which would effectively cancel out their profits) how do they consistently sell well? Is it just a hilarious coincidence? I have never seen ANY even vaguely convincing argument to the contrary concerning Ramy or Seki, and I would be massively surprised to find one.

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer

I am saddened that there is so much jealousy in the ranks of woot. I came to think of woot of a bunch of positive thinkers not mindless trolls. Where I'm from artists actually care and appreciate one another and if one is highly successful the praise not talk down to them. Sad we live in a world of so much hate. What saddens me more is those that hate the most believe they have no hate at all. *sigh*

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
sircruizer wrote:I am saddened that there is so much jealousy in the ranks of woot. I came to think of woot of a bunch of positive thinkers not mindless trolls. Where I'm from artists actually care and appreciate one another and if one is highly successful the praise not talk down to them. Sad we live in a world of so much hate. What saddens me more is those that hate the most believe they have no hate at all. *sigh*



GlobalWombat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages GlobalWombat
Mancho wrote:I'm not sure what to make of your comment.



I likely wasn't clear enough, but the gist of the comment was that marketing t-shirts is a business. Artists can and will (*sigh* yes, there are always exceptions to the rule) market to the largest demographic. This age of family patronage has long since passed. The intrinsic value of a piece of art is solely the artist's and any interested parties - so the fact remains that it's still a business, and business rules still apply.

I'm not going to respond to that guy's post ahead of yours, since it goes well into the realm of the curiously over defensive.

iggzy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages iggzy

This shirt had me on the floor laughing the second I saw it.

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
colinm09 wrote:What is your complaint about that statement? Are you saying that the purpose of art is to make money? True artists don't care about the pay checks; they do art because it's something they love and want to share with others. That being said, a true artist who makes something worthwhile deserves to be fairly compensated. Loop's 12 Days of Christmas comes to mind as a perfect recent example: hours upon hours had to have been spent on that beautiful design (I looked at her step by step process...it was intimidating) and, as such, she deserves to be compensated for her work. Seki and Ramy crank out designs that I will loosely call art for one purpose: profit. It defeats the purpose of art if the artist is just trying to make a quick buck. They are monstrous people. I don't support cheaters.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to grow up.



So art is now defined by the time spent on the piece? Here I thought art was something that captured creativity and beauty. Silly me!

xazothia


quality posts: 54 Private Messages xazothia
sircruizer wrote:Where I'm from artists actually care and appreciate one another and if one is highly successful the praise not talk down to them.



If you come around here on a derby day when Seki or Ramy aren't the winners, you'll see plenty of praise and support. Heck, go look at the derby comments right now - the majority of it is praise and support.

You have a very myopic view of the woot community if you think it's "full of" hate.

codachrome


quality posts: 0 Private Messages codachrome

How did the tortoise really win the race?
You want the truth?! You can't handle the truth!

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
xazothia wrote:If you come around here on a derby day when Seki or Ramy aren't the winners, you'll see plenty of praise and support. Heck, go look at the derby comments right now - the majority of it is praise and support.

You have a very myopic view of the woot community if you think it's "full of" hate.



Actually I still believe that most of the woot community is positive. However, this thread has hurt that viewpoint. Most of the statements are of trollin nature. Basically unfounded accusations and illogical conclusion. Something I'm really not used to reading on woot! I made mention of the world being full of hate. Reading this thread reminded me of that hate. I imagine the woot comments will get back on track once the jealousy and other emotions that clouds ones judgement subsides here. It still saddens me to see it though.

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
sircruizer wrote:So art is now defined by the time spent on the piece? Here I thought art was something that captured creativity and beauty. Silly me!



Explain to me how this design captures creativity or beauty.

-Matt Colin

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
JaundiceDave wrote:And where are you getting this cheating stuff? I see no evidence of such, namely that their shirts consistently sell out. If they were cheating and vote spamming (for which they'd have to pay $10 for vote, which would effectively cancel out their profits) how do they consistently sell well? Is it just a hilarious coincidence? I have never seen ANY even vaguely convincing argument to the contrary concerning Ramy or Seki, and I would be massively surprised to find one.



Look at things regarding Amuria and Ramy and then defend the two of them. Hell, just read Adder's comment a few pages back...it basically sums up a few major examples of her cheating.

Actually, just read this and the linked articles. Should be proof enough, I should think.

http://tanqexe.deviantart.com/journal/19894132/

-Matt Colin

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
colinm09 wrote:Explain to me how this design captures creativity or beauty.



Sure! Of course I dont expect my explination to be a true definition. As with all art one can see it different than the other. I love how it shines new light on an old tale using modern references. I also love how the tortoise is in front of the hare. Had it been behind it you might just see a tortoise turtle killin a rabit. My mind referenced the story of the tortoise and the hare easier with the placement of the tortoise.

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
sircruizer wrote:Sure! Of course I dont expect my explination to be a true definition. As with all art one can see it different than the other. I love how it shines new light on an old tale using modern references. I also love how the tortoise is in front of the hare. Had it been behind it you might just see a tortoise turtle killin a rabit. My mind referenced the story of the tortoise and the hare easier with the placement of the tortoise.



My only reply: The artist drew a turtle and a rabbit. Seems she failed right off the bat.

-Matt Colin

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer

I can't help but wonder if the conspiracy theorists on here also believed the Ken Jennings was cheating? Maybe Jeopardy gave him all the questions before the show! That must be it! What else would explain his winning streak?! Couldn't be his intellegence or anything! I mean him winning over and over again would be just as illogical as someone winning a design derby over and over.

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
sircruizer wrote:I can't help but wonder if the conspiracy theorists on here also believed the Ken Jennings was cheating? Maybe Jeopardy gave him all the questions before the show! That must be it! What else would explain his winning streak?! Couldn't be his intellegence or anything! I mean him winning over and over again would be just as illogical as someone winning a design derby over and over.



Your analogy doesn't work. Now, had Ken Jennings been accused of cheating MULTIPLE TIMES before and BANNED from other game shows for cheating, then yes, your analogy would work. Read the link I provided. Educate yourself. Don't pretend Seki is a misunderstood visionary.

-Matt Colin

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
colinm09 wrote:My only reply: The artist drew a turtle and a rabbit. Seems she failed right off the bat.



I take it you dont understand the Mona Lisa painting either?

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
sircruizer wrote:I take it you dont understand the Mona Lisa painting either?



Uh...huh?

-Matt Colin

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
colinm09 wrote:Look at things regarding Amuria and Ramy and then defend the two of them. Hell, just read Adder's comment a few pages back...it basically sums up a few major examples of her cheating.



I see you've decided to not respond to the first part of my post. Whatever floats your boat. Are you referring to this comment?

AdderXYU wrote:Given their nigh-instantaneous dual-popularity here, the sheer frequency of their wins from the beginning, the lack of precedence of similar work winning regularly before, the increasing lack of quality in their pieces attached to similar winning percentages, the amount of votes they beat most other designs by, and their resurgence as a winning force to be reckoned with since the creation of a larger fog unseen in the hotness, after a number of slower months, I find it VERY hard to believe there is none of that shady past involved.



If so, lol. None of this is hard proof, or even vaguely solid evidence. All it is is the angry conjecture of one poster who freely admits he has a personal vendetta against both artists. When you look deeper at the post, however, it becomes more than a misguided fearmongering diatribe.

Firstly, bear in mind that other things that Adder has listed as dishonest have included,"bringing people in from other sites" which is patently ridiculous. Nowhere on any woot site can I find a single mention of the illegality of advertising one's design on an exterior site.

Secondly, let me define what I would view as cheating on a derby. Gaming the system through technological means, (aka hacking of some sort) or by registering fake accounts and voting. Again, there is absolutely zero evidence for either of those occuring. I think Woot would have noticed by now if they were artificially inflating the vote count by hacking, and the idea that they are registering these multitudes of false accounts is ridiculous, as the very nature of the site prevents it. I doubt even the most desperate cheater would pay thousands of dollars for a shirt to win a derby. Adder and others suffer from a bad case of confusion of causation/correlation and a bias against the artists that manifests itself in interpretations of derby performances that, when viewed from a clear perspective, are laughable in their stupidity. Ramy or Seki winning by a large margin? Well, they can't possibly have a decent design that is well targeted with large amounts of popular appeal! Perish the thought! They must be cheating! What's this, Ramy and Seki are submitting more designs after a lull in activity? It can't possibly that one or both are simply tired of shirt design and wants to take a break! They MUST BE CHEATING!!!!

No.
Until I see solid, non biased information from a reliable source that doesn't rely on conjecture and strawman arguments, I will let Ramy and Seki be innocent until proven guilty. Unless Adder, along with redefining what art is, seeks to redefine the core idea of a system of justice as well? I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
colinm09 wrote:Uh...huh?



You mentioned she failed by drawing a picture of a turtle and a rabbit. I felt thats like saying Leonardo Da Vinci failed with the Mona Lisa because all he drew was a woman.
I may have misunderstood you response if say you have a dislike for turtles and rabbits. Then assuming you didn't understand the Mona Lisa would be false.

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
sircruizer wrote:You mentioned she failed by drawing a picture of a turtle and a rabbit. I felt thats like saying Leonardo Da Vinci failed with the Mona Lisa because all he drew was a woman.
I may have misunderstood you response if say you have a dislike for turtles and rabbits. Then assuming you didn't understand the Mona Lisa would be false.



The fable is a tortoise and a hare. She drew a turtle and a rabbit. Turtle =/= tortoise. Rabbit =/= hare. It's you, my friend, that does not understand.

-Matt Colin

maddy2005


quality posts: 0 Private Messages maddy2005
sircruizer wrote:You mentioned she failed by drawing a picture of a turtle and a rabbit. I felt thats like saying Leonardo Da Vinci failed with the Mona Lisa because all he drew was a woman.
I may have misunderstood you response if say you have a dislike for turtles and rabbits. Then assuming you didn't understand the Mona Lisa would be false.



i think the fail with drawing a turtle and a rabbit is that it should have been a tortoise and a hare instead.

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
maddy2005 wrote:i think the fail with drawing a turtle and a rabbit is that it should have been a tortoise and a hare instead.



colinm09 wrote:The fable is a tortoise and a hare. She drew a turtle and a rabbit. Turtle =/= tortoise. Rabbit =/= hare. It's you, my friend, that does not understand.



There are quite a few legitimate complaints about this design, but this is just grasping at straws.

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
colinm09 wrote:The fable is a tortoise and a hare. She drew a turtle and a rabbit. Turtle =/= tortoise. Rabbit =/= hare. It's you, my friend, that does not understand.



Ah, so it would of made more sense to you if there was say a giant shrink ray in the background? I see your point but think that might of been overkill.. I think it was right for her to exclude that and just use Artistic Expression. Fits better on a shirt

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
JaundiceDave wrote:There are quite a few legitimate complaints about this design, but this is just grasping at straws.



I never said this was the only thing wrong with it; rather, it is the first problem I notice with the shirt.

-Matt Colin

DarkDrag0n


quality posts: 7 Private Messages DarkDrag0n

Interesting, I posted a witty comment insulting the quality post guy with the complaints and it got deleted. It's not like I used any bad language or direct insults, just SARCASM.

Anyways, he was complaining that the artist should've done something, and I merely informed him there was such a location where you could communicate with the artist prior to the derby ending. What's wrong with that? Plus he stated something that many people mentioned there, and Seki actually responded as to why a finish line, etc. was not included.

How is me complaining about him any different then the mean things he said:

"Another phone-in from seki, and her clones do the same old thing...eat it up."

That's much worse than anything in my post, and it is not relevant to the actual shirt at hand. So he gets a quality post and mine gets deleted? That doesn't seem fair...

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
colinm09 wrote:I never said this was the only thing wrong with it; rather, it is the first problem I notice with the shirt.



The vast, vast majority of people who would see this on a shirt would neither notice nor care. Hell, I just google imaged both tortoise/turtle and hare/rabbit and the difference between them is small enough that a complaint of the shirt based on that is just silly.

Are you going to respond to my post about cheating, or will you fail to add a rebuttal as you did to my prior post.

colinm09


quality posts: 70 Private Messages colinm09
JaundiceDave wrote:Are you going to respond to my post about cheating, or will you fail to add a rebuttal as you did to my prior post.



Nah. I've said all I need to say. If you choose to not look at the facts, that's cool. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you, because I know it won't change your mind. Perhaps you shouldn't waste your time arguing with me, either.

-Matt Colin

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
colinm09 wrote:Nah. I've said all I need to say. If you choose to not look at the facts, that's cool. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you, because I know it won't change your mind. Perhaps you shouldn't waste your time arguing with me, either.



I've yet to see a single fact in any of your posts on the topic. I read the deviantart journal you posted despite my deep seated loathing for that horrible site and I was bemused to see that your GREAT CHEATING SCANDAL OF '08 was in fact, according to the person the journal writer linked to, perfectly within the rules of the con in question. People were getting so mad only because ramy was 'VIOLATING OUR TRUST' which is no more evidence nor proof of any kind of misdeed on this website than any other ad hominem statement you or adder have made.

sircruizer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages sircruizer
DarkDrag0n wrote:Interesting, I posted a witty comment insulting the quality post guy with the complaints and it got deleted. It's not like I used any bad language or direct insults, just SARCASM.

Anyways, he was complaining that the artist should've done something, and I merely informed him there was such a location where you could communicate with the artist prior to the derby ending. What's wrong with that? Plus he stated something that many people mentioned there, and Seki actually responded as to why a finish line, etc. was not included.

How is me complaining about him any different then the mean things he said:

"Another phone-in from seki, and her clones do the same old thing...eat it up."

That's much worse than anything in my post, and it is not relevant to the actual shirt at hand. So he gets a quality post and mine gets deleted? That doesn't seem fair...



Yeh that tend to happen sometimes. I not sure if its filters or people reporting one post and not the other. Try not to take it to personally and mark it off as a mistake. Systems pretty good but far from perfect

Radien


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Radien

T-shirt: cathartic. Description: a little disturbing.

Bendarr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Bendarr

WHY IS IT SOLD OUT.. I WANT IT!!!

Bendarr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Bendarr
sekiyoku wrote:Yes, you can buy it tomorrow by going to this link: http://shirt.woot.com/Friends.aspx?k=11397

When it starts working (midnight) I'll post a larger link on the thread.

Thanks so much for the sellout!




thank you! im buying one for sure :D

gotaylor007


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gotaylor007

everyone criticizes, everyone buys

devilzukin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages devilzukin

Honestly, I don't like the shirt and glad I didn't buy one nor did I vote for it. Doesn't seem like the artist cares about the criticism about their design. I'm actually SURPRISED that it sold out. = 3=

ssjbryces


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ssjbryces
JaundiceDave wrote:There are quite a few legitimate complaints about this design, but this is just grasping at straws.



I don't see how drawing the wrong animal is an invalid complaint. If you don't see the difference that's one thing, but to say it's invalid for someone to be able to tell is a bit much.

MarcosElMalo


quality posts: 12 Private Messages MarcosElMalo

Thanks to those commentors that confirmed that this shirt is indeed supposed to be portraying a tortoise and a hare (or alternately, a turtle and a bunny). If you squinch your eyes up, is really does bear a resemblance.

For those hater.wooters, get a life. This is shirt.woot. User generated content is supposed to suckle. I'm pretty sure that every shirt I've bought from this site was from an outside designers that woot brought in so that not all the shirts they sell would be temporary working platforms.

Draug


quality posts: 69 Private Messages Draug
genericsmith wrote:Insults bounced off her like rubber
As she won with a pokemon and flubber
she collects another check
with some more design dreck
and long time shirt wooters just shudder



gs that is beautiful. Maybe I should retire?

Or I could try myself...

Seki is a frequent winner
We wish her victories were thinner
Give others a try
It's getting real dry
Cause each week our options look grimmer



The enemy's gate is down.
Writers are people too! (Albeit strange ones.)
Save Poe! Reckon Nevermore! Or he'll be head-locked forevermore!

Ryfiel


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Ryfiel

As far as the submitting an entirely different version for printing like that? It is actually cheating. What happens ALL THE TIME is that someone submits a new version for voting and removes the old one. The new version must now start from zero votes and everyone who voted on the first one never come back and look since they've done their voting for the week and it ends up getting no where near where the original version was. It's a total crapshoot that means you basically better not make a mistake that could be improved upon or just ignore it and let it run its course.

JaundiceDave wrote:I've yet to see a single fact in any of your posts on the topic. I read the deviantart journal you posted despite my deep seated loathing for that horrible site and I was bemused to see that your GREAT CHEATING SCANDAL OF '08 was in fact, according to the person the journal writer linked to, perfectly within the rules of the con in question. People were getting so mad only because ramy was 'VIOLATING OUR TRUST' which is no more evidence nor proof of any kind of misdeed on this website than any other ad hominem statement you or adder have made.



Sure, maybe its within technical rules. But it's still being shady and gaming the system. In my book its worse to twist rules that are there to completely unintended ends than it is to just outright break them. At least that way you're being honest about it instead of claiming no wrongdoing.