IamDangerboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages IamDangerboy
neonphase wrote:Seriously? I would Buy like 10 of these !


I third this!

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
zwolf4444 wrote:Reminds me of an old commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnZhPtpibSk



Haha I remember this commercial now, pigeons are flying rats Didn't woot have a shirt with a rat in a pigeon suit too, or was that threadless? I used a little different approach as my birds are bombers not gunners

Bonus points for anyone to name the family of bird I used as reference and bonus bonus for doing the full latin genus species etc

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
Re: Rockin Robin



This is a great piece gmv

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
IndependentVik wrote:Great post, Dave. Is it possible they're cheating? Yes. Is there evidence for it? No. The evidence that's been cited wouldn't stand muster anywhere other than in front of a crazed mob. People are letting their hatred overcome their reasoning.



There is no clouded reasoning over derby after derby of off-theme content.

There is no clouded reasoning over derby after derby of the same exact designs.

There is no clouded reasoning that Otakon itself does not say they cleared anyone, but that they were unable to prove anything. There is no clouded reasoning behind them saying the events raised sufficient concern. If everything was proven AOK, they would have no such concern.

It is no clouded reasoning to presume that a boy who has proven so disrespectful to every community he's ever been in doesn't care about anything but his own advancement. Go read his DA journal. Read him lashing out at photography and literature for daring get their own face time on DA. Read him explaining away why his work is sucking lately, and continually covering his ass for some controversy or another. Then come back here and read his responses to people. Look at his entries. Check out his diatribe during the "Basic Training" thread, where he accuses everyone BUT the one guy with a girlfriend who's been banned for cheating of manipulating votes, and then insists he will start trying out new styles, but never actually does, instead keeping safe in the same old moneymakers.

If you can go through that evidence and still like Ramy's work, and still sympathize with him, you are reaching for straws. There is plenty of evidence that should cast his true motives in light. All that should be needed to damn him is his continual lack of respect for the derby with off theme and uncreative work. This is incredibly hard to invalidate if you have any working knowledge of pop art, pop culture, this site, deviant art, the themes set forth... these are people who insist pointillism can use a flat base outline and still be pointillism. These are people who think that bears being the #1 enemy of America isn't Stephen Colbert's intellectual property, without any parodic element. These instances, weekly as they tend to be, should be enough to cast the two out forever. They do not play by the rules. Anyone can see that. That should be enough. But really, in the real world, anyone who has created the mass fraud Seki did at Deviant Art would never really be taken seriously anywhere else ever again. No one who followed it up with the Otakon incident would be welcomed anywhere. You may say there's no solid evidence, but there is nothing about either of them that makes them worthy of being allowed to profit further from activity which has been shady for years prior to woot. Activity which has been proven. Name one other place where you could create the sort of fraud Sekiyoku did at DA and then be allowed to participate in a similar community.

As for multiple accounts costing thousands of dollars? These two have made over 100K here. If they spent even 1% on fake accounts, they have 100. That isn't enough to win on its own, but it sure as hell is enough to help, and to keep some serious hotness exposure. Wake up.

Sales mean nothing. There are millions of wooters, and only thousands of voters. That their generic schlock wins weekly isn't proven by sales... of course generic schlock will sell. It just won't necessarily win to print. People can argue that there is no firm evidence that they are cheating, but there is even less that they aren't. There are plenty of proveable incidents of both of them ignoring rules for their own benefits. There are plenty of proveable incidents of them manipulating other communities for their own benefit. There is no reason we should be so naive as to think they wouldn't do the same here, and there is no reason we should allow them the chance.

tjost


quality posts: 25 Private Messages tjost
Re: The world's richest duck



I really like this the only thing that's bugging me is the kinda scribble shading done to the duck while the background uses cleaner halftones. Other then that I think it's really well done. Good job!

Pinque13


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Pinque13

Totally love this shirt.

Pinque13


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Pinque13

much better than last weeks entry, and def my style of shirt. Has my vote.

jasneko


quality posts: 30 Private Messages jasneko
Re: Bedtime Bird V.2 (Side Placement)
bvillarreal wrote:How sweet, and the colors look nice on navy! GMV


Thanks bvillarreal!=)


odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
tjost wrote:I really like this the only thing that's bugging me is the kinda scribble shading done to the duck while the background uses cleaner halftones. Other then that I think it's really well done. Good job!



I see what you mean. The way I wanted to do the coins required halftones, but I didn't want the whole desigb to rely on half tones. If I were doing this as just a straight illustration, it would like have been all airbrush style. It's a real challenge to find the right mix of techniques to achieve the look you want for t-shirt art.





odysseyroc


quality posts: 33 Private Messages odysseyroc
Re: Flight Academy



This is a great drawing, but the rendering on the jackets is really what impresses me the most about this one. Great concept and execution.





Vajeetaman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Vajeetaman
Re: Birding



Excellent! GMV

lofbking


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lofbking
Re: Sea Bird



nice design i think it would be better if it has a different background color

lindab53


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lindab53
Re: Beacon



Very nice!

hbanzapan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages hbanzapan
Re: Spiderbird



oh..
http://jcr.chu.cam.ac.uk/ents/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/spiderman.jpg

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave

Adder, I noticed that in your last two posts, you did not quote me at all and in fact only made one direct refutation of a point I had made, which was that they had enough money to register fake accounts. I have responded to this, and I would like to see you actually respond to the points I make, not go off on tangential character assassination.

-

This post will be long enough that I am going to have to break up this wall of text for easier reading. Thus, I will be splitting it into two parts. The first concerns the consistent allegations of cheating, which I feel I have sufficiently debunked here, but which AdderXYU continues to debate. The second part was not something I originally planned on including, but in the end I felt it essential. It concerns what I view as Adder’s harmful and deluded statements regarding art and freedom of choice.

N.B. To keep things simpler and to reduce the sheer aggravation of having to type their names over and over, I’ll refer to Ramy and Seki as R and S. No shirts were harmed in the writing of this post.

On Cheating
I’ll cut any expository introduction here and skip straight to the meat of my argument. The main thrust of my ideas on R and S’ cheating is thus: There is no even vaguely firm evidence linking them to any kind of cheating, which I define as gaming the system through technological means, (aka hacking of some sort) or by registering fake accounts and voting. I do NOT view asking friends on other sites to vote as cheating, and the same goes for anything not defined by Woot as a bannable offense. Adder and others have relied on conjecture fueled by personal dislike of the artists in question, and relentlessly attack them using strawman arguments that fail to stand to even the most cursory logical examination. Adder cites several ‘suspicious behaviors’, including their sudden burst of popularity and their sustained success, which in his eye is impossible from an artist he does not personally care for. I am also not a R and S fan, though I own one shirt by R (Blue Moon), but the behaviors he lists are easily explained in a vastly simpler way in accordance with Occam's Razor, namely that R and S have lots of exterior support and have a knack for creating designs that, while they aren’t the most appealing to me or to Adder, have (to me and to the majority of people) a clear popular appeal.

Adder also contends that R and S register new accounts, make a purchase with each of them, and then use them to “stuff the ballot box.” This, to me, is the most far-fetched and silly of the claims, for several reasons.


  • First, this would require a very sizable amount of money. While R and S have found plenty of success both on Woot and on other sites, I find it amusing to imagine that they would ferret away their winnings sitting in front of a computer for hours registering accounts (each with separate emails I might add) and making purchases with them simply to bump their votes by a few hundred.
  • Second, I have no lack of faith in the technical abilities of the Woot staff. If they noticed that several hundred people voted for R and S each week had only bought one item, never made posts, and probably had similar sounding names and were otherwise inactive on the site, would you not think that they might run an I.P address sweep on the votes? Or does Adder think that R and S are actually using separate I.P addresses for each account, an idea that is patently ridiculous.
  • Third, and last, this idea stands directly contrary to their immediate success on the site from their first derbies. Does Adder think that when they first started out here, they had the cash flow to create accounts and make purchases with them? Where would this money have come from? And why would R and S make such a risky move as to invest thousands of dollars in “startup costs” of a t-shirt regime?


In addition to these claims, Adder and others attempt to cast doubt over the character of R and S, bringing up past incidents and what they view as current misdeeds. I believe these to be blown out of proportion, and/or completely non-applicable to the situation at hand. First and foremost, Adder attempts to use their antics at Otakon 2008 and the website deviantart.com to convince the Woot populace that R and S are devious and cannot be trusted. At deviantart, S, there known as Amuria, created fake accounts to help up-rank her work, or at least that is how I understand it. While certainly in a moral grey area, this was within the site’s terms of use, as evidenced by the current successful existence of both R and S’ deviantart accounts. Perhaps Adder wishes to use that example to illustrate that R and S might be making fake accounts at Woot, however, I have already stated why I believe this to be an extreme unlikelihood. Continuing on. At Otakon 2008, R rented more tables than is customary in order to sell more art. Again, this was an action, that while viewed as immoral by some, was completely within the rules of the Con, as admitted by the “victims” of the event. In any case, this has nothing to do with an internet t-shirt competition, and is simply fodder for character assassination by Adder and others.

In conclusion, the whole idea that R and S are cheating is completely unfounded in any fact, and is riddled with logical fallacies. I believe that I have sufficiently and logically demonstrated this, and I would welcome any response.

-

On Art

It has always jumped out to me that Adder seems to have some interesting ideas about art; concerning namely exactly what it is, the superiority of one piece of art over another and whether people can be objectively wrong about the art that they enjoy.

Regarding the first part of that sentence (what art is), I find it handy to take a look at a comment Adder made on an S shirt when it won the derby last week. I found this phrase inherently ridiculous, and I hope you will agree.

Artists should profit from their work, not work for profit.


This is one of the silliest, and to me, offensive, phrases I have heard on this site. I am a working photographer. When I am paid to shoot a wedding, I create beautiful photos. I view them as art, the couple views them as art, and the world views them as art. I was paid to make them. Are those photos art now? Or are they inferior, somehow, to the photos I take on my off time, the stuff I don’t make specifically to get paid for, even though many of my wedding photos I view as better than my off-time photos. Or, for instance, think of Michaelangelo’s David. It was created for profit from the patronage of the Medicis. Would Adder look at that beautiful sculpture and say “Sorry, it was made for profit, it is not art.” Adder, I hate to break this to you, but every single shirt on woot and the vast majority elsewhere is created for profit. This is especially apparent in the derby, where all the shirts are made with the hope of getting printed and netting the artist profit. Yet, I would call every original design here art. Would Adder agree? Probably not.

This leads me to the second part of my argument, which is that Adder, in claiming the superiority of one type (or piece) of art over another, is ruining the very idea of what art is, which is that to the unbiased viewer, all art is completely equal. As he says,

You can't deny that Jeff Buckley was more talented vocally than Lady Gaga, and if you do you don't have a right to talk. It's that obvious.

While this statement is clearly slightly humorous in its writing, its meaning and the motives behind it are completely serious and, to me, disturbing. What if there were one person who really, with all their heart, believed that Lady Gaga was the best singer ever? That is viewpoint on art, and you cannot objectively tell someone that their view is incorrect and invalid, because that runs completely contrary to the very idea of art! When Adder decries all the people who buy R and S shirts as flawed in their perception of art, he is wrong, because NOBODY is flawed in their perception of art. The very concept is ridiculous! As another anecdote, I showed my little cousin a photo I took recently, and he looked up at me and said without a shred of doubt “That is the best photo ever!” I don’t think it is, but I didn’t try and correct him, because to him, to someone who believes in what they like, saying that what they like is not art is completely heartless, and I am amazed that someone whose self-professed goal on this site is to “maintain art” could hold such beliefs.

In conclusion, I have made my case that Adder’s views on art are extremely overreaching and flawed in their clear embodiment of his ego. For Adder, what he views as art is art, and everything else is not. That’s fine. What is NOT fine is telling other people what they can and cannot like. That was the reason that I have made these posts protesting his and his ideas, and it is the reason I will continue writing them, however long they may be.

P.S. I am not alone in my beliefs. I received a message from a popular, well-respected artist that Adder has praised in the past, with the subject: ‘You’re my Hero’, and continued

Thanks for pointedly sticking it to Adder and Wednesday. I have thought along the lines of many of your arguments but it's potential suicide for an artist to get too caught up in politik. I actually support Adder on some of his points too but it's infuriating when they use if/then logic that doesn't work and impose their personal preference as fact. Thanks



To that artist, thank you for the message. To everyone, thank you for reading this, all 1781 words of it, if you did. I really do appreciate it, and I feel that what I say is important. But hey, in the end:

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
JaundiceDave wrote:Adder, I noticed that in your last two posts, you did not quote me at all and in fact only made one direct refutation of a point I had made, which was that they had enough money to register fake accounts. I have responded to this, and I would like to see you actually respond to the points I make, not go off on tangential character assassination.

-

This post will be long enough that I am going to have to break up this wall of text for easier reading. Thus, I will be splitting it into two parts. The first concerns the consistent allegations of cheating, which I feel I have sufficiently debunked here, but which AdderXYU continues to debate. The second part was not something I originally planned on including, but in the end I felt it essential. It concerns what I view as Adder’s harmful and deluded statements regarding art and freedom of choice.

N.B. To keep things simpler and to reduce the sheer aggravation of having to type their names over and over, I’ll refer to Ramy and Seki as R and S. No shirts were harmed in the writing of this post.

On Cheating
I’ll cut any expository introduction here and skip straight to the meat of my argument. The main thrust of my ideas on R and S’ cheating is thus: There is no even vaguely firm evidence linking them to any kind of cheating, which I define as gaming the system through technological means, (aka hacking of some sort) or by registering fake accounts and voting. I do NOT view asking friends on other sites to vote as cheating, and the same goes for anything not defined by Woot as a bannable offense. Adder and others have relied on conjecture fueled by personal dislike of the artists in question, and relentlessly attack them using strawman arguments that fail to stand to even the most cursory logical examination. Adder cites several ‘suspicious behaviors’, including their sudden burst of popularity and their sustained success, which in his eye is impossible from an artist he does not personally care for. I am also not a R and S fan, though I own one shirt by R (Blue Moon), but the behaviors he lists are easily explained in a vastly simpler way in accordance with Occam's Razor, namely that R and S have lots of exterior support and have a knack for creating designs that, while they aren’t the most appealing to me or to Adder, have (to me and to the majority of people) a clear popular appeal.

Adder also contends that R and S register new accounts, make a purchase with each of them, and then use them to “stuff the ballot box.” This, to me, is the most far-fetched and silly of the claims, for several reasons.

  • First, this would require a very sizable amount of money. While R and S have found plenty of success both on Woot and on other sites, I find it amusing to imagine that they would ferret away their winnings sitting in front of a computer for hours registering accounts (each with separate emails I might add) and making purchases with them simply to bump their votes by a few hundred.
  • Second, I have no lack of faith in the technical abilities of the Woot staff. If they noticed that several hundred people voted for R and S each week had only bought one item, never made posts, and probably had similar sounding names and were otherwise inactive on the site, would you not think that they might run an I.P address sweep on the votes? Or does Adder think that R and S are actually using separate I.P addresses for each account, an idea that is patently ridiculous.
  • Third, and last, this idea stands directly contrary to their immediate success on the site from their first derbies. Does Adder think that when they first started out here, they had the cash flow to create accounts and make purchases with them? Where would this money have come from? And why would R and S make such a risky move as to invest thousands of dollars in “startup costs” of a t-shirt regime?


In addition to these claims, Adder and others attempt to cast doubt over the character of R and S, bringing up past incidents and what they view as current misdeeds. I believe these to be blown out of proportion, and/or completely non-applicable to the situation at hand. First and foremost, Adder attempts to use their antics at Otakon 2008 and the website deviantart.com to convince the Woot populace that R and S are devious and cannot be trusted. At deviantart, S, there known as Amuria, created fake accounts to help up-rank her work, or at least that is how I understand it. While certainly in a moral grey area, this was within the site’s terms of use, as evidenced by the current successful existence of both R and S’ deviantart accounts. Perhaps Adder wishes to use that example to illustrate that R and S might be making fake accounts at Woot, however, I have already stated why I believe this to be an extreme unlikelihood. Continuing on. At Otakon 2008, R rented more tables than is customary in order to sell more art. Again, this was an action, that while viewed as immoral by some, was completely within the rules of the Con, as admitted by the “victims” of the event. In any case, this has nothing to do with an internet t-shirt competition, and is simply fodder for character assassination by Adder and others.

In conclusion, the whole idea that R and S are cheating is completely unfounded in any fact, and is riddled with logical fallacies. I believe that I have sufficiently and logically demonstrated this, and I would welcome any response.

-

On Art

It has always jumped out to me that Adder seems to have some interesting ideas about art; concerning namely exactly what it is, the superiority of one piece of art over another and whether people can be objectively wrong about the art that they enjoy.

Regarding the first part of that sentence (what art is), I find it handy to take a look at a comment Adder made on an S shirt when it won the derby last week. I found this phrase inherently ridiculous, and I hope you will agree.


To that artist, thank you for the message. To everyone, thank you for reading this, all 1781 words of it, if you did. I really do appreciate it, and I feel that what I say is important. But hey, in the end:



Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966). damn man lmao ffs

haxrox


quality posts: 10 Private Messages haxrox

This is my new favorite shirt design. I love that you don't even have to change the bait to get birds. And the birdcage maintains the serene feel; he's just catching a pet, not a meal. I really enjoy how you switch up your style so much, tgentry. With all those great ideas and different approaches, your shirt portfolio is something like a comic book without words or an entertaining art collection. I'd buy that book.

arpayton


quality posts: 0 Private Messages arpayton
Re: Delusions of Grandeur



gets my vote for best in show.

JaundiceDave


quality posts: 2 Private Messages JaundiceDave
jamescho84 wrote:Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966). damn man lmao ffs



What? Also, I just noticed the link is broken in the second paragraph of my post. The correct link is this. http://tinyurl.com/yf8pjex

ChefRAZ


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ChefRAZ
prozakgal wrote:oh no, youre right...
3 blues (dark, light, greenish), black, brown, red, white



You forgot Orange.

BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
Re: Yummy Bird Resub



I love this one too. I actually think I prefer the other version as a t-shirt, but this one I'd hang on my wall.


BootsBoots


quality posts: 37 Private Messages BootsBoots
Re: Rockin Robin



So well done.


bvillarreal


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bvillarreal
tjost wrote:I believe that poultry also displays a heirarchial (sp) system where by the least senior of rank is the one pecked on hence the term pecking order



Aaahh! Interesting, thanks, Tjost. And I hadn't seen your Flight Academy until now - you have one more vote from a junior pecker

bvillarreal


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bvillarreal
BootsBoots wrote:I love this one too. I actually think I prefer the other version as a t-shirt, but this one I'd hang on my wall.



Thanks, Boots. I hope your big bird hangs on!

kamz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kamz
Blinkfive8two wrote:I really like this design as-is, the resub doesn't even compare. This ones just so bold and in your face. I want to force people to recognize my chemical addiction to caffeine.
Great work anyhow.



I was trying to get that hypnotic look with the owl's eyes-wanting him to look something between dazed & high on caffiene. Thanx Blinkfive8two for noticing the details.

kamz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kamz
bassanimation wrote:I like this size, this is perfect! I wish it was centered though. It's such a cool iconic design, so centering it brings people's attention right to it. It's really cool, no matter what.



My hands were possessed by the spirits of the night when I was resubmitting. It was they who forced the owl off center. Thanks bassanimation.

kamz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kamz
theamazingv wrote:Holy shittake! Owls and coffee, my two favorite things! SO EXCITED!



Aha so I see you too are high on caffiene, thanks theamazingv you are too kind.

kamz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kamz
Re: powered by coffee



Thanks @deusvsmachina, @abdielou

@amyindsun sigh entirely my loss



Schwigity


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Schwigity
tenza wrote:Amen to that!



This is awesome!! Print please!!!

grrlmarvel


quality posts: 12 Private Messages grrlmarvel
Re: Flight Academy



You lines always get me... in a good way. Glad to see you're great with this one!

brkak132


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brkak132
Re: Independence



am i missing something? i don't get this shirt...

mathiole


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mathiole
brkak132 wrote:am i missing something? i don't get this shirt...



the birds are creating thenselves and their place ;)

hajile


quality posts: 1 Private Messages hajile

Very surreal. I love it.
It's a shame it will never print. :/
Do artists often take their shirts else where?

j0naht


quality posts: 0 Private Messages j0naht
Re: Yummy Bird Resub



Love it even more! I wish your thumbnail had him upside down and maybe a shadow or something around him to make him pop out more. This guy is hilarious!

Draug


quality posts: 69 Private Messages Draug
Re: Beacon



Ooh, I like this one! The thumbnail doesn't do it justice. gmv

The enemy's gate is down.
Writers are people too! (Albeit strange ones.)
Save Poe! Reckon Nevermore! Or he'll be head-locked forevermore!

marzipanapple


quality posts: 7 Private Messages marzipanapple
SJulian1 wrote:the phoenix reminds me of the triforce, from zelda.



Yeah, I thought that this was supposed to be a reference to as well. :\

theredraccoon


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theredraccoon

I guess I should have played more Zelda... o.O

That was by sure coincidence.

theredraccoon


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theredraccoon
bvillarreal wrote:How ironic! I just posted a little blurb about cannibalism in poultry with my late resub
Nice chicken! GMV



LOL nice!

TheyKilledKenny


quality posts: 2 Private Messages TheyKilledKenny
bellarific wrote:It doesn't bother me in the least that the "shadow" isn't where or at the angle it should be. I don't even think I see it as a shadow. I see it sort of like a thought bubble-less thought/daydream. It's a great design with good movement and I think it wouldn't have worked as nicely if the shadow had been skewed to match the bird's angle.



I saw it in the same way... more like a thought projection... or a mental impression rather than a shadow...

Excuse Me Maam, Your Woot is Showing...

ChefRAZ


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ChefRAZ