Shirt.Woot

Some baseline numbers for the week as of 3:10am CST:

(1) The Cheese is a Liederkranz - 13227
(2) If I Only Had a Brain - 4638
(3) Death Served Till Noon - 3383
(4) Acquired Taste - 12177
(5) The Binge - 43233
(6) In Harmony - 4543
(7) Eats, Shoots, and Leaves - 2478
(8) Meh - 7706
(9) It Came Out Of Nowhere - 28500
(10) Unstealthiest Ninja - 7492
(11) Nevermore - 37528
(12) Minor Modifications - 3904
(13) Odd Bear Out - 4820
(14) Reflections on Pi - 9174
(15) Books – No Electricity Required - 4281
(16) World 1-1 Building - 5396
(17) Spectrum - 3318
(18) Natural Instinct - 5520
(19) Two Queens - 1354
(20) Rule No.1: Cardio - 2799

(21) Gozerhead - 2320
(22) Sunset - 2499
(23) Pure Bread - 1602
(24) In a Galaxy Bar Far Away - 2096
(25) 3037 - 1426
(26) One Man Band - 972
(27) CENSOR THIS! - 973

Narfcake wrote:Some baseline numbers for the week as of 3:10am CST:

(1) The Cheese is a Liederkranz - 13227
(2) If I Only Had a Brain - 4638
(3) Death Served Till Noon - 3383
(4) Acquired Taste - 12177
(5) The Binge - 43233
(6) In Harmony - 4543
(7) Eats, Shoots, and Leaves - 2478
(8) Meh - 7706
(9) It Came Out Of Nowhere - 28500
(10) Unstealthiest Ninja - 7492
(11) Nevermore - 37528
(12) Minor Modifications - 3904
(13) Odd Bear Out - 4820
(14) Reflections on Pi - 9174
(15) Books – No Electricity Required - 4281
(16) World 1-1 Building - 5396
(17) Spectrum - 3318
(18) Natural Instinct - 5520
(19) Two Queens - 1354
(20) Rule No.1: Cardio - 2799

(21) Gozerhead - 2320
(22) Sunset - 2499
(23) Pure Bread - 1602
(24) In a Galaxy Bar Far Away - 2096
(25) 3037 - 1426
(26) One Man Band - 972
(27) CENSOR THIS! - 973

Hopefully we shall see a number of noobs make it out of the danger zone and knock down some of the previous survivors. Kinda disappointed that both expo shirts landed as far down as they did. I thought they were excellent shirts

Jesus, it's like noobpocalypse this week... hopefully some will scratch and claw out of the dark grey bogs (Ok, Ok, dark baby blue bogs) of the danger zone.

Yeah, it hasn't been easy for the noobs recently. All 7 debuted below the line #195 and #196 too, and 6 were below in #197.

Sunset has moved up a notch already, though, so we'll see if that can break out. It's certainly sold the most of the 7, so.

It seems to me noobs have been having a hard time the last month or so... are we just hitting a rough patch in our relationship, or is this something big?

chuuie wrote:It seems to me noobs have been having a hard time the last month or so... are we just hitting a rough patch in our relationship, or is this something big?

There was a woot-off a couple weeks ago, and some big numbers were put up.

Since the Reckoning goes by the past 4-weeks of sales, many of the top-20 have those sales to factor into their daily sales rate, thus the bar to escape the danger zone has been high.

chuuie wrote:It seems to me noobs have been having a hard time the last month or so... are we just hitting a rough patch in our relationship, or is this something big?

I suspect the Woot buying audience demographic has been shifted by the success of "Cheese". Noobs will adapt to the new direction and all will be returned to normal patterns.
This is all mere idle speculation of course.

eta: plus what NarfCake said.

I think Sunset is going to escape. I like the other cyberpunk winners too, but they seems unlikely to escape at this point.

Woooo, "Sunset" escapes the danger zone and "Death Served Till Noon" pushes it's way into 2nd. I doubt it can sneak pass the big cheese though.

DianaSprinkle wrote:Woooo, "Sunset" escapes the danger zone and "Death Served Till Noon" pushes it's way into 2nd. I doubt it can sneak pass the big cheese though.

Bacon and eggs with Cheese...yuuummmmm. IHOP time!

bassanimation wrote:Bacon and eggs with Cheese...yuuummmmm. IHOP time!

Sounds like a delicious collaboration

Wow Sunset is on the move. It is a great looking shirt, I am glad to see that.

wow, I was seriously surprised that Poison had so many sales for its first day. Did woot increase the ammount of day one sales from 3000?

Arthurbrigade wrote:wow, I was seriously surprised that Poison had so many sales for its first day. Did woot increase the amount of day one sales from 3000?

Yep, it has gone up to 5000. There's some discussion on the shirt itself.

Arthurbrigade wrote:wow, I was seriously surprised that Poison had so many sales for its first day. Did woot increase the ammount of day one sales from 3000?

The banter about that is in the shirt's thread ...

Thanks, I didnt know that. Havent been paying too much attention to that at all this week. Thanks Diana and Narf!

You would think Shirt Woot's growth wouldn't be at the expense of the designers that make this entire site possible.

Johndis5 wrote:You would think Shirt Woot's growth wouldn't be at the expense of the designers that make this entire site possible.

The biggest benefit goes to the consumer here.

Take into consideration how many more shirts sell during a woot-off. These are folks who wouldn't buy at $15, but would absolutely pounce on them at $12, so we really can't do a 1-1 quantity breakdown. I would say that less than a quarter of those who buy at $10 won't at $15.

I'll do some more math when I get back on a computer, but I can apply some numbers to both Poison and Death ...

Narfcake wrote:The biggest benefit goes to the consumer here.

Take into consideration how many more shirts sell during a woot-off. These are folks who wouldn't buy at $15, but would absolutely pounce on them at $12, so we really can't do a 1-1 quantity breakdown. I would say that less than a quarter of those who buy at $10 won't at $15.

I'll do some more math when I get back on a computer, but I can apply some numbers to both Poison and Death ...

I realize who benefits here, and the designer who created the work not only doesn't benefit, but actually loses potential income from their creation. It's a crap deal for designers, and that's not cool.

Johndis5 wrote:I realize who benefits here, and the designer who created the work not only doesn't benefit, but actually loses potential income from their creation. It's a crap deal for designers, and that's not cool.

Who cares about the designers? We must respect the almighty consumers, and they CLEARLY don't care about designers. CONSUME AND DO NOT QUESTION.

In seriousness, anyone who has seen the numerous anti-designer/pro-greed moves made by this site in the last month or two and isn't disturbed is blind. Or just completely inconsiderate of humans over corporations.

So here are some numbers ... and no doubt, an artist with a good selling shirt will be losing out the most. I don't see Woot being the one making out like the bandit either; the main advantage would be the consumer getting the shirt for 1/3rd off.

Some numbers for Poison ...
4700 * $10 = $47,000 total. $46,000 to Woot, $1,000 to artist.
4700 * $9 = $42,300 cost, so $3,700 profit.

Under the previous cap ...
3000 * $10 + 425 * $15 = $36,375 total. $35,525 to Woot, $1850 to the artist.
3425 * $9 = $30,825 cost, so $4,700 profit.


For Death ...
3000 * $10 + 200 * $15 = $33,000 total. $30,600 to Woot, $1400 to the artist.
3200 * 9 = $28,800 cost, so $1,800 profit.

Under the new cap ...
3800 * $10 = $38,000 total. $37,000 to Woot, $1,000 to the artist.
3800 * $9 = $34,200 cost, so $2,800 profit.

I factored that only 1/4 that would've bought at $10 vs. $15, and from the math that I've done in the past, a $9 cost for each shirt.

My take on this ... unless the payout is going to be raised for the artist, I don't like the new (higher) cap myself either. If Woot wants to keep selling later in the day, I'd much rather see a graduated payment system in place for debut day - first 3,000 at $10, then continue selling at $12 with the $1 commission. Woot yields more revenue, and the artist reaps a greater reward for a good selling design. Even if that artist happened to be draw bunguins ...

Narfcake wrote:So here are some numbers ... and no doubt, an artist with a good selling shirt will be losing out the most. I don't see Woot being the one making out like the bandit either; the main advantage would be the consumer getting the shirt for 1/3rd off.

Some numbers for Poison ...
4700 * $10 = $47,000 total. $46,000 to Woot, $1,000 to artist.
4700 * $9 = $42,300 cost, so $3,700 profit.

Under the previous cap ...
3000 * $10 + 425 * $15 = $36,375 total. $35,525 to Woot, $1850 to the artist.
3425 * $9 = $30,825 cost, so $4,700 profit.


For Death ...
3000 * $10 + 200 * $15 = $33,000 total. $30,600 to Woot, $1400 to the artist.
3200 * 9 = $28,800 cost, so $1,800 profit.

Under the new cap ...
3800 * $10 = $38,000 total. $37,000 to Woot, $1,000 to the artist.
3800 * $9 = $34,200 cost, so $2,800 profit.

I factored that only 1/4 that would've bought at $10 vs. $15, and from the math that I've done in the past, a $9 cost for each shirt.

My take on this ... unless the payout is going to be raised for the artist, I don't like the new (higher) cap myself either. If Woot wants to keep selling later in the day, I'd much rather see a graduated payment system in place for debut day - first 3,000 at $10, then continue selling at $12 with the $1 commission. Woot yields more revenue, and the artist reaps a greater reward for a good selling design. Even if that artist happened to be draw bunguins ...

No shirt bought in bulk, directly, in numbers and methods woot would use, is going to cost $9 per tee. that might be a fair quote these days for a 6 color tee pre-printed somewhere else, but that somewhere else is a) printing more like 500 tees at a time, not 3000, and b) turning a profit on that $9 printed tee. So the blank, ink, and processes of printing for a tee printer, turning out purchases smaller than woot does daily, has to cost enough less than $9 to be economically viable. Woot does their own printing, so their actual cost per shirt is at most whatever an independent printer spends to make a shirt, not what they would charge me per copy for that shirt.

AdderXYU wrote:No shirt bought in bulk, directly, in numbers and methods woot would use, is going to cost $9 per tee.

Your small production shop comparison, turning a profit for selling printed at $9/ea. ... yeah, they're probably printing on Gildan 5000 blanks, which run around $2/ea.

Even wholesale, AA blanks by the case are nearing $6/ea. these days, FOB Los Angeles. I'd figure that Woot is enough of a favorable customer to get it at $5 including custom tagging and delivery from CA to TX.

Smartpost ... $2 a shipment.

Consumables ... $.50 in ink and other supplies, energy to run all the equipment, etc.

Staff/warehouse/other overhead ... that all adds up.

That's my basis for the $9 cost per shirt.

Woot's profit margins are a lot thinner than say TeeFury's or Threadless'. TeeFury uses Alstyle blanks (hecho en Mexico), which wholesale are about $2 less than AA, and adds shipping costs to their $10 shirt. Threadless blanks are made in Bangladesh, so I'm sure they have even lower costs.

Narfcake wrote:Your small production shop comparison, turning a profit for selling printed at $9/ea. ... yeah, they're probably printing on Gildan 5000 blanks, which run around $2/ea.

Even wholesale, AA blanks by the case are nearing $6/ea. these days, FOB Los Angeles. I'd figure that Woot is enough of a favorable customer to get it at $5 including custom tagging and delivery from CA to TX.

Smartpost ... $2 a shipment.

Consumables ... $.50 in ink and other supplies, energy to run all the equipment, etc.

Staff/warehouse/other overhead ... that all adds up.

That's my basis for the $9 cost per shirt.

Woot's profit margins are a lot thinner than say TeeFury's or Threadless'. TeeFury uses Alstyle blanks (hecho en Mexico), which wholesale are about $2 less than AA, and adds shipping costs to their $10 shirt. Threadless blanks are made in Bangladesh, so I'm sure they have even lower costs.

I don't think these numbers are right =/. I'm pretty sure you get can AA blanks for about $3 if you have an AA wholesale account, possibly a bit less, and I'm pretty sure Smartpost is less than $2, though I'm having problem locating the correct value. But I'll let someone that works closer with shirts respond with more accurate numbers. If your numbers are right, Woot would be hemorrhaging money on both random shirts and all shirts that sell fewer than 1000 (artist money).

CapSea wrote:I don't think these numbers are right =/. I'm pretty sure you get can AA blanks for about $3 if you have an AA wholesale account, possibly a bit less, and I'm pretty sure Smartpost is less than $2, though I'm having problem locating the correct value.

$3 ... that was years ago ... for white.

AA 2001 vs. a basic tee. FWIW, these Anvil blanks are made in Nicaragua; open-end threads too, as opposed to ringspun.

- Alstyle blanks that TeeFury uses.
- Anvil blanks (made in Bangladesh. Indeed, I won't be surprised if they're the "east-coast supplier" that Threadless switched to a few years ago.)

(I'm not saying that any of them are getting their blanks for such prices, but certainly that such is indicative to their costs.)

Don't forget Woot's own comment in the FAQ.

Smartpost ... I'm basing on TeeFury's shipping price. They're not marking up the USPS options, so I presume they're not marking up Smartpost either.

But I'll let someone that works closer with shirts respond with more accurate numbers. If your numbers are right, Woot would be hemorrhaging money on both random shirts and all shirts that sell fewer than 1000 (artist money).

Much like they hemorrhage money selling the Big o' Cosmos? Obviously, some of the "crap" they include cost way more than $1, but they're selling it for that anyways.

(This post was edited for additional information.)

Narfcake wrote:$3 ... that was years ago ... for white.

I'm not saying this is impossible, but I still think you're wrong. Based on pretty much every thread on the topic, if you get them from a third party wholesaler they are more than if you get them direct from AA, and most of those prices you see online are based on boxes of between 30 and 100 - nowhere near the thousands upon thousands that woot orders, and would presumably get an even greater discount. It's not impossible that it's about $5, but I would be more inclined to believe it's 4 or less if/when you have a deal working directly with AA, and not going through these third party wholesalers. AA keeps its direct wholesale prices a secret, but everywhere I've seen says that if you can get wholesale direct from AA you get a better deal than any of the sites you find online, and some of these sites are selling them for ~5.00.

Some examples:

http://www.gotapparel.com/p-276_2580-american-apparel-50-50-unisex-crew-t.aspx

http://www.shirtwholesaler.com/american_apparel.htm

You'll notice that even with Blankstyle, that's a third party wholesaler offering $6.80 for a quantity of 1. AA will have cheaper prices by probably about 30%, which is standard wholesale markup (lowering 6.80 to 4.76 right there) and should, in all likelihood, offer a bulk discount that will at least get it closer to $4.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know exactly, but you have to remember that any non-direct from AA wholesaler is going to have their own markup, and the bulk orders by Woot should drop the price more. It's not as cut and dry as looking online and seeing they look kind of pricey.

CapSea wrote:Some examples:

Wrong style on both, first one is a discontinued 50/50, and the latter isn't even AA, so those are not valid comparisons.

I do have a friend in the printing business right here in SoCal, so that's what I'm basing my numbers on. "Their pricing is a buck higher than what I pay."

Narfcake wrote:Wrong style on both, first one is a discontinued 50/50, and the latter isn't even AA, so those are not valid comparisons.

I do have a friend in the printing business right here in SoCal, so that's what I'm basing my numbers on. "Their pricing is a buck higher than what I pay."

I highly doubt woot is only making $1 per shirt on the first 5000 now. There is just no way.

Woot has much more buying power than probably any other t-shirt designer so they probably get the cheapest price possible from AA. Printing up to/at least 3000 shirts a day adds up to LOTS of shirts. Also, the economies of scale woot has creates an even lower cost to produce each shirt. I highly doubt it cost Woot more than $5 for each shirt to be produced and shipped. Don't forget Amazon owns woot now and they have to have a shipping system like no other worked out with the usps.

It's like pizza, you can't get the ingredients yourself and make a pizza that cost $1.50 (even wholesale) but Pizza Hut does it with every pizza they make.

A business would not rely on $30,000 in sales a day to net less than $4000.

I also think your assumption of only 25% of sales after the initial sell out is way too low. If people like a shirt, yes they buy it, but not everyone checks the site every day and when they do check and see a shirt for $15 that they like, they still buy it. I really don't think the $15 vs $10 is as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

However, regardless of all of this, a 5000 sellout number definitely hurts the designer, and unless woot has some crazy ideas coming up, sell outs will happen much less often. I REALLY don't get this move.

How many shirts have sold over 5000 total in their runs lately?
"Odd Bear Out" which has been on the site 14 weeks hasn't even sold 5000 shirts yet. There are quite a few others on the reckoning that are below 5000 total, but "Odd Bear Out" is the longest running in the reckoning currently with less than 5000.
The current #2,4, 5, 7, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, and 21-27 shirts have all sold less than 5000 total shirts with all but two of them being available for 2 or more weeks. That's 17 out of 27. Now I know all the shirts hadn't sold 3000+ either but it's almost double the current sellout and I don't think this site has grown enough for that jump yet.
It would have been nice to have seen how many "Cheese" shirts would have printed without a cap at all, as it would have sold 5000 first day sales no doubt, but there hasn't been anything else that comes close to that shirts sales yet.

I guess we'll see what the future holds, but generally this is really taking a bite out of the wallets of the artists.

Some numbers to ponder, with a couple more days until the reckoning. A lot of movement this week, though #1 is still pretty much out of reach.

1 (1) The Cheese is a Liederkranz - 13227 (+231)
2 (3) Death Served Till Noon - 3383 (+111)
3 (4) Acquired Taste - 12177 (+139)
4 (7) Eats, Shoots, and Leaves - 2478 (+101)
5 (5) The Binge - 43233 (+118)
6 (2) If I Only Had a Brain - 4638 (+71)
7 (6) In Harmony - 4543 (+62)
8 (9) It Came Out Of Nowhere - 28500 (+100)
9 (8) Meh - 7706 (+86)
10 (10) Unstealthiest Ninja - 7492 (+77)
11 (11) Nevermore - 37528 (+88)
12 (22) Sunset - 2499 (+77)
13 (14) Reflections on Pi - 9174 (+66)
14 (13) Odd Bear Out - 4820 (+57)
15 (12) Minor Modifications - 3904 (+49)
16 (21) Gozerhead - 2320 (+54)
17 (16) World 1-1 Building - 5396 (+59)
18 (15) Books – No Electricity Required - 4281 (+43)
19 (19) Two Queens - 1354 (+50)
20 (18) Natural Instinct - 5520 (+58)

21 (20) Rule No.1: Cardio - 2799 (+77)
22 (17) Spectrum - 3318 (+45)
23 (23) Pure Bread - 1602 (+46)
24 (25) 3037 - 1426 (+57)
25 (24) In a Galaxy Bar Far Away - 2096 (+23)
26 (27) CENSOR THIS! - 973 (+48)
27 (26) One Man Band - 972 (+27)

renegadetim wrote:I highly doubt it cost Woot more than $5 for each shirt to be produced and shipped.

Well, I based my cost with evidence as opposed to all speculation of their numbers, so we'll leave it at that.

Don't confuse markup (gross profit), which is simply just sales price minus product cost either. If you look at my numbers, I only have $7.50 factored as their variable costs. Operating/overhead costs is what I factored in as the rest before the actual (net) profits.

Keep in mind that supermarkets have about a 2-3% profit margin. Amazon/Target/Walmart are between 3-4%. Newegg, under 1.5%. A 10% profit margin is not horrible.

BTW, I can make pizza for $1.50; the bulk bins at Winco FTW.


Afternoon brainfart edit: Regarding the 4-to-1 ratio of $15 to $10 ... look at the numbers during the last woot-off. 1 hour of shirts at $12. Compare the sales that week to the sales the previous week and the week after (just look for my posts). Go back to March's woot-off, and you'll find that the top seller that week was a 3-week old shirt that cleared a majority of that during the woot-off. That is strong evidence that folks buy a lot more if they were cheaper.

I'm tempted to buy Censor This. Like Fate of the Planet, I don't think I'd wear it that often, but as an artistic design/collector's item I really want it.

Week after week, Quality Posts are awarded to the people who figure out a new way of noting that many noobs will not make it past their first week of reckoning.

the people who didn't buy the in a galaxy bar far away are noobs because i'm wearing that shirt right now sooooooo ya r2d2 kicks butt.

beaterbar wrote:Week after week, Quality Posts are awarded to the people who figure out a new way of noting that many noobs will not make it past their first week of reckoning.

I'm often surprised that others are surprised by that, 4-5 noobs dieing each week are normal. Though I'm one of the ones surprised by WHICH shirts are reckoned. Poor shirts that I like and think are strong die before reaching me.

muffinisgood wrote:the people who didn't buy the in a galaxy bar far away are noobs because i'm wearing that shirt right now sooooooo ya r2d2 kicks butt.

What a nice gift someone sent you.

beaterbar wrote:Week after week, Quality Posts are awarded to the people who figure out a new way of noting that many noobs will not make it past their first week of reckoning.

Week after week, there's also hope for all the noobs to get strong enough to survive.

In nearly 200 weeks, that hasn't happened yet. And you can't claim week #1 or #2 as all-hitchhiker-survivors either; the reckoning didn't exist yet.

Well it looks like it is going to be a back and forth fight to the finish for that 20th spot. Books has been falling too and could end up being the unlucky 21.

Just a bit over a day left, and there's definitely been some movement.

1 (1) The Cheese is a Liederkranz - 13227 (+270)
2 (3) Death Served Till Noon - 3383 (+130)
3 (4) Acquired Taste - 12177 (+164)
4 (7) Eats, Shoots, and Leaves - 2478 (+121)
5 (5) The Binge - 43233 (+147)
6 (2) If I Only Had a Brain - 4638 (+83)
7 (6) In Harmony - 4543 (+77)
8 (9) It Came Out Of Nowhere - 28500 (+121)
9 (8) Meh - 7706 (+86)
10 (22) Sunset - 2499 (+88)
11 (11) Nevermore - 37528 (+106)
12 (10) Unstealthiest Ninja - 7492 (+89)
13 (14) Reflections on Pi - 9174 (+83)
14 (12) Minor Modifications - 3904 (+61)
15 (13) Odd Bear Out - 4820 (+63)
16 (21) Gozerhead - 2320 (+60)
17 (16) World 1-1 Building - 5396 (+66)
18 (20) Rule No.1: Cardio - 2799 (+92)
19 (15) Books – No Electricity Required - 4281 (+54)
20 (19) Two Queens - 1354 (+59)

21 (18) Natural Instinct - 5520 (+71)
22 (23) Pure Bread - 1602 (+56)
23 (17) Spectrum - 3318 (+50)
24 (25) 3037 - 1426 (+66)
25 (24) In a Galaxy Bar Far Away - 2096 (+31)
26 (27) CENSOR THIS! - 973 (+58)
27 (26) One Man Band - 972 (+34)

18-21 are close, so there's might be a fight there tomorrow before noon.

For the bystanders, Poison is at (+109), Forbidden Future is at (+25). We'll see how they fair tomorrow night ...

Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?

The same thing we do every night ... keep selling shirts to the masses with hidden messages, and TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

Johndis5 wrote:You would think Shirt Woot's growth wouldn't be at the expense of the designers that make this entire site possible.

Looks like I kinda missed out on something important... would someone care to elaborate on "the expense of the designers"?

Thanks