sunaness


quality posts: 18 Private Messages sunaness
purplstarz wrote:New

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=55021

Old

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=46371

Is this allowed? Different derby, same artist, same idea, with updates



Why would it not be? It's a completely different design simply featuring the same character.

I'm still eagerly awaiting nblottie's Beauty and the Beast rendition. Sadly there aren't many options for that tale so far.

mymovinman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mymovinman
sunaness wrote:Why would it not be? It's a completely different design simply featuring the same character.

I'm still eagerly awaiting nblottie's Beauty and the Beast rendition. Sadly there aren't many options for that tale so far.



Im with you on that one! Alwyas looking foward Blottie's Entries

rtothel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rtothel

I saw the Derby title "Fairy Tales", and my first thought was not "original" or "wow that's so cool". Instead, it was, I bet the top entries at least involve a moon, a forest coming out of the tshirt and a sword wielding Snow White or Red Riding Hood. Way to be so predictable. Perhaps you can ban some of these items from future woot derbies: moon/suns, trees and anyone carrying a weapon.

purplstarz


quality posts: 1 Private Messages purplstarz
rtothel wrote:Perhaps you can ban some of these items from future woot derbies: moon/suns, trees and anyone carrying a weapon.



That would be interesting.

The top three for "Four": two have trees the other has weapons

"Letter O": one tree, one with tree and weapon, one without weapon but has viking helmet

"Role": Weapons, killer, trees

tgentry


quality posts: 105 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

Re: FAIRY TALE FREE FOR ALL





I left the mystery icon picture at the office this weekend, so it's late going up, but congrats to Mattcom for winning this week's Mystery Icon monkey prize, and by a narrow margin as the very next entry also featured a giant.

phineus


quality posts: 0 Private Messages phineus
tgentry wrote:

I left the mystery icon picture at the office this weekend, so it's late going up, but congrats to Mattcom for winning this week's Mystery Icon monkey prize, and by a narrow margin as the very next entry also featured a giant.



Noooooooooooooooooooooooo! Why? Why did I remove my original submission just to make a silly addition? That monkey would have been miiineeee!

lozerette


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lozerette

I need to say that I am VERY disappointed in Woot for the lack of clarity in their own, personal definition of Fairy Tale.

By all means, Woot has the right to choose what they print, but why make so many artists waste time on entries you are going to reject when you could have been upfront about it?

"We're looking for classic characters, morality plays, and maybe even some weird gruesome endings you never seem to remember because why on earth would they put that in a story for kids?"

Seriously, Woot. Please be more clear in the future. Save us and yourselves a lot of time and hassle.

purplstarz


quality posts: 1 Private Messages purplstarz
lozerette wrote:
Seriously, Woot. Please be more clear in the future. Save us and yourselves a lot of time and hassle.



HEAR HEAR!

tgentry


quality posts: 105 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

lozerette wrote:
Seriously, Woot. Please be more clear in the future. Save us and yourselves a lot of time and hassle.



Thanks for the feedback. It's usually the derbies we think are simple and straight-forward that trip us up in terms of communicating what we're looking for. We admittedly thought this would be a cinch (you know, we want fairy tales. Easy. Sprinkle a few examples. Done.) but didn't think about what a landmine something like that can be. A huge swathe of fantasy-based literature, movies, television,video games, and animation could be defined as fairy tales based off some definitions and criteria. We didn't want those, we wanted the ones that inspired those.

Once the derby went up, we saw that a few entries opened the door to justifying the likes of the Smurfs, Legend of Zelda, Neil Gaiman, etc. so we tried to jump on it at the start of submissions to avoid that. But you're completely right, we should have closed the door on them before the derby even started. Sometimes it's unavoidable that some line drawing happens at the start of submissions, but this a line that should have been drawn before.

The struggle each week when coming up with derby themes is for 2 to 3 people to predict what 200-300 creative artists will think of that we didn't. What one phrase, word, or punctuation mark that's in a write-up (or isn't) will become a nightmare once submissions start. I think we've had a good run lately, but this derby is a good reminder to stay vigilant and give even the ones we think are simple and straight-forward a closer look before they go up. This is one we should have thought of. I don't think we'll ever get 100% clear communication to every artist on every derby, but we'll try to improve.

EDIT: One thing that I think helps us and the artists is when they ask questions within an hour or so of the theme going up. I try to monitor new derby themes at least until then to catch those sort of problems or questions. If I'm not sure about an answer, I can take it to the others and we can discuss where we stand on it. It helps us see things that we didn't think of and gives us time to adjust, correct, and clarify. We can't give yay or nays on specific entries, but can hopefully provide general rule questions anyone has. You guys asking those questions or pointing out potential landmines is invaluable and helps us see where you are at when faced with the themes. I think we've avoided a lot of trouble just by those kind of back and forths.

no1countrygirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages no1countrygirl

so my idea if i could draw or whatever and post an entry is i would have a light blue shirt with a wanted poster of a shoe (whatever shoe that fits the person) and the title would be: im just a Cindy looking for my shoe. whats so cool about it is you would have to order the shirt online and when you pick the shirt you get a choice of different pictures of shoes you would want on the poster! so if you were country you could pick a cowboy boot, or you were more of like a city person i guess you would want a high top. the possibilities could be endless and there would be so many different variations of the same shirt!!!
think it would work?

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
no1countrygirl wrote:so my idea if i could draw or whatever and post an entry is i would have a light blue shirt with a wanted poster of a shoe (whatever shoe that fits the person) and the title would be: im just a Cindy looking for my shoe. whats so cool about it is you would have to order the shirt online and when you pick the shirt you get a choice of different pictures of shoes you would want on the poster! so if you were country you could pick a cowboy boot, or you were more of like a city person i guess you would want a high top. the possibilities could be endless and there would be so many different variations of the same shirt!!!
think it would work?



It wouldn't work here. The process is complex enough with a single design, add multiples and you get something that's not workable.

move along

Alcor


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Alcor

So from what I've gathered, Alice in Wonderland is not considered on topic? How much more crazy-fantasy can you get? Or are you looking specifically for the super-old stories?

Also, what about King Arthur? There was a Sword in the Stone theme rejected also.

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
Alcor wrote:So from what I've gathered, Alice in Wonderland is not considered on topic? How much more crazy-fantasy can you get? Or are you looking specifically for the super-old stories?

Also, what about King Arthur? There was a Sword in the Stone theme rejected also.



Fantasy != Fairy Tale.

For example, Dragon Riders on Pern are definitely fantasy, but are most definitely not fairy tales.

Fairy tales, by and large, are based on oral history. Stories that are part of a culture, rather than novels that were written from imagination.

My speech is not splitting. I am speaking in Cthulhu.

seedsofsedition


quality posts: 0 Private Messages seedsofsedition
Mavyn wrote:Fantasy != Fairy Tale.

For example, Dragon Riders on Pern are definitely fantasy, but are most definitely not fairy tales.

Fairy tales, by and large, are based on oral history. Stories that are part of a culture, rather than novels that were written from imagination.



I would argue that Arthur, Merlin, and Queen Mab are all oral tradition characters even if we now associate them with specific books or just books in general. When you get character or creature specific the lines get really hazy. Fairies are in fairy tales but are mostly now associated with fantasy novels, etc.

find me here: cas.lollworks.com

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
seedsofsedition wrote:I would argue that Arthur, Merlin, and Queen Mab are all oral tradition characters even if we now associate them with specific books or just books in general. When you get character or creature specific the lines get really hazy. Fairies are in fairy tales but are mostly now associated with fantasy novels, etc.



Merlin and Arthur I would agree should count as fairy tales. They meet the criteria of oral legend, 'magic', dragons, etc. Alice in Wonderland does not.

But I don't draw the lines, Woot does.

My speech is not splitting. I am speaking in Cthulhu.

lozerette


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lozerette
Mavyn wrote:Fantasy != Fairy Tale.

For example, Dragon Riders on Pern are definitely fantasy, but are most definitely not fairy tales.

Fairy tales, by and large, are based on oral history. Stories that are part of a culture, rather than novels that were written from imagination.



Not to be nitpicky, but the entire Pern series has a Science Fiction base. It seems like straight fantasy unless you've read all of them, but it's Sci-Fi/Fantasy.
I'll go back to my corner with my books now...

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
lozerette wrote:Not to be nitpicky, but the entire Pern series has a Science Fiction base. It seems like straight fantasy unless you've read all of them, but it's Sci-Fi/Fantasy.
I'll go back to my corner with my books now...



I've read the entire series. No argument, the latter books are sci-fi/fantasy, but the early ones are not. In terms of making a comparison, it's still accurate.

My speech is not splitting. I am speaking in Cthulhu.

LordThing


quality posts: 1 Private Messages LordThing

Might as well called this derby "Make Red Riding hood scary/badass"