Shirt.Woot

Dear Woot,

I will try your new shirts. If I like them, I will buy more. If I don't, I won't. I'm pretty much a plain old shopper, that way.

I don't mind if you make changes. In my opinion, that's just the world, the economy, life. I don't think you'd still be here if you hadn't changed in five years. I'd rather have you here in some form than not here at all.

Next time I see a design that "speaks to me," I'll order up a shirt and see how I like it. See you then. In the meantime, thanks for the drawful of fun shirts and all the message board entertainment. I think you're nifty.

-eeschultz

AA shirts are of higher quality, made in usa, and actually cut to fit. I'm tall and skinny, and going with shorter, wider shirt would honestly look rather silly. I loved the fact Woot! used AA, and supported independent artists. This is a move in the wrong direction. I will still check out the art, but....www.americanapparel.net is all I can say.

I'm not a very active forum poster on any site. I tend to be a lurker on many communities, mostly because I enjoy watching conversations, but seldom feel that I have anything of value to contribute. Occasionally I do (Jazz nyan cat) and I toss my hat out there. I think this may be one of those times.

Woot is a company in a country and society driven by capitalism. Capitalism, by nature is there to make more money. This is nothing new, as companies do it all the time. Sometimes when they do it, quality of the product may go down, yes, but a lot of people are blasting the new blanks before even getting to try them, or some people are going off of older, possibly different ones. Honestly people, you can't know what the quality is going to be like until you have one in your hands. I'm reserving any judgement until there's a shirt I want enough to buy that has been printed on the new stock, and not before then. As for the AA tees, it might be time for them to go. My Run Away has 3 holes I noticed in the back and I've only worn it 3 times, and none of those times was I doing anything where it could have caused then to show up, unless somehow my desk chair is punching holes in my shirts now. Maybe this was a change away from AA because Woot has noticed that the quality of product they were getting from the company was lower than what they wanted to give us.

For those outcrying about the Made in America aspect, to be honest I never paid much attention to where the shirts, nor much else I buy is made from. There are imports and exports to almost every developed country. With a global economy it's hard to just pick and choose. Plus, with the fact that Woot is now owned by Amazon, a much larger, global company. I understand the wanting to support shirt.woot because they print on AA, which is made in America, but when the profits go to a global corporation, the profits don't always stay in the country anyways. If you really wanted to keep the money in America, you'd be buying solely from small business in your community. I'm sorry, but for many of you, the argument of boycotting because of American made no more holds little water to me.

okac wrote:ah okies. I have read almost all of this and thought it was basically all about the mens shirts (being shorter) so thanks for clarifying.
I'm def. interested in seeing the sizing tonight as I always have to order ML.

I came to woot for the bunny shirts, so I havent decided how I feel about them not being American made yet...

I totally understand the concern, but at the end of the day I trust the Shirt.Woot powers that be to make the best decisions for the company and I work side by side with them daily so I KNOW for a FACT they dearly care for the community and don't take this stuff lightly.

I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked. I go to brunch with these people. I watch hockey games with them. I invite them to my birthday party. No one is lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills and laughing at how they pulled a fast one. This decision was agonized over.

You can't please 100% of the people, and we get that. But I know the decision was more about "how do we better supply our customers" than "let's stick it to these rubes real good." If the American thing is a deal breaker, I don't know how to assuage that. But if it's quality you're worrying about, give 'em a chance.

nmpls wrote:And yet, it is.
I already don't dry my shirts to avoid shrinkage.
6'4" with a 30 in inseam, I need my shirt length. Post up your measurements before you tell us our concern is groundless.

You mean like we already did on today's sale?

llandar wrote:You mean like we already did on today's sale?

How about you link it rather thank just being snarky?

I've looked through that thread. Nowhere do I see you post "I am X feet tall and have a x inseam" or even have a long torso.

llandar wrote:I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked.

Not for nothing, but I don't see too many "personal" attacks as I do concerns and opinions from people about the new shirts.

We're sure you have questions and opinions about this - let 'em rip in the forum and we'll do our best to answer them.

Which we were asked for.

So in this case I think being snarky as a staffer is a wee bit inappropriate, and I assure you this is not a personal attack on you or any other staffer. It is my respectful opinion.

ETA: So please don't yell at me. I am very sensitive.

nmpls wrote:How about you link it rather thank just being snarky?

I've looked through that thread. Nowhere do I see you post "I am X feet tall and have a x inseam" or even have a long torso.

Here: shirt.woot.com

llandar wrote:I totally understand the concern, but at the end of the day I trust the Shirt.Woot powers that be to make the best decisions for the company and I work side by side with them daily so I KNOW for a FACT they dearly care for the community and don't take this stuff lightly.

I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked. I go to brunch with these people. I watch hockey games with them. I invite them to my birthday party. No one is lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills and laughing at how they pulled a fast one. This decision was agonized over.

You can't please 100% of the people, and we get that. But I know the decision was more about "how do we better supply our customers" than "let's stick it to these rubes real good." If the American thing is a deal breaker, I don't know how to assuage that. But if it's quality you're worrying about, give 'em a chance.

Frankly, I don't appreciate the snark on either side. But I will reiterate my concern (which has been asked by several other members): this change occurring so soon after the price increase. I'm not saying the two are related, but it would be nice if SOMEONE acknowledged this because it doesn't sit well with me and clearly I'm not alone.

llandar wrote:The new blanks are less than a half inch shorter and do not shrink as much. You should survive with minimal discomfort.

Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. I really thought all that talk was about just the mens shirts.

I am a visual person, so I was really thrown by the difference in the way the shirts looked on the models from both the anvil and AA sites. I did look again just now, and I found that on the AA website the model's jeans practically come up to her ribs, but even adjusting for a low rise jean, the shirt still looks significantly longer than the anvil shirts. However, I have no experience with anvil, so I can only take someone else's word for it that they're comparable.

And if a visual size comparison is made by a model from Woot, then I can go by that as well.

llandar wrote:Here: shirt.woot.com

Real professional. Maybe you should stick to writing rather than PR.

I haven't attacked you, well yet. You're attacking me and other posters with real concerns. This is not a good way to build customer loyalty. Woot, this is laughable. Why are you letting this guy run his mouth while representing you.

You're telling us that 1/2 in does matter. i know the length of the shirts. I can look them up on the website. Please don't treat us like children. I'm asking you for YOUR height because you oh so knowledgeable woot writer have deemed this a non-issue for those of us who are tall and have longer torsos.

Jesus Christ man, I was willing to give you all a chance, but if this is what woot's customer service is, why should I spend money here? If this is the new woot, maybe you should be worried about your American job. I'm not asking you to kiss my ass, but some civility when representing your employer should be par for the course.

I work with criminals all day, and I'm far more professional to them than you're being to your customers.

goldenthorn wrote:

I'm going to have nightmares about this tonight.

llandar wrote:I totally understand the concern, but at the end of the day I trust the Shirt.Woot powers that be to make the best decisions for the company and I work side by side with them daily so I KNOW for a FACT they dearly care for the community and don't take this stuff lightly.

I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked. I go to brunch with these people. I watch hockey games with them. I invite them to my birthday party. No one is lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills and laughing at how they pulled a fast one. This decision was agonized over.

You can't please 100% of the people, and we get that. But I know the decision was more about "how do we better supply our customers" than "let's stick it to these rubes real good." If the American thing is a deal breaker, I don't know how to assuage that. But if it's quality you're worrying about, give 'em a chance.

Speaking for myself, when I rashly accused Woot of being greedy in the middle of the night, I was not accusing the staff people, nor personally attacking them. I know their salaries do not go up when Woot earns an extra $4.00 per unit, at least not right away and certainly not proportionately. I'm sure they did agonize over the decision, and I'm also sure that the extra profits rise up to the corporate level, probably to Amazon.

I also know that AA has repulsive advertising and some reprehensible practices, so I'm certainly not defending them as a company. And if they are unable to meet Woot's production needs, that's a different discussion. I find it hard to believe that the main motivation was not to simply lower the bottom line. The staff responsible for shirt.woot tried their best to match the quality of AA blanks with the likely directive from above to cut costs in order to increase profits, but I doubt that is possible with Anvil given my personal experience. We'll see.

I feel like changing the women's blanks to something more reasonable to fit actual women and leaving the men's and kids blanks alone would make more sense with the story that shirt.woot was just trying to supply its customers with the best product, since nothing was wrong with the product they were already providing.

The major problem of outsourcing is probably a deal-breaker for me, since I do buy American when I have the choice. I loved having the choice here.

I don't buy the argument that we are globalized enough that trade between third-world and first-world is just hunky-dory. Americans fought hard for worker protections for a hundred years, and companies dumped those jobs overseas without sending the protections with them. Corruption is rampant, governments are weak, and it adds up to environmental and human degradation. That and it is really hard for people in America with lower levels of education to find work that pays a living wage precisely because of the outsourcing.

llandar wrote:If the American thing is a deal breaker, I don't know how to assuage that. But if it's quality you're worrying about, give 'em a chance.

You're refusing to acknowledge what pretty much everyone has identified as the primary concern -- the movement to a much cheaper blank coming directly after a 20% price hike supposedly necessary to maintain quality.

nmpls wrote:Real professional. Maybe you should stick to writing rather than PR.

I haven't attacked you, well yet. You're attacking me and other posters with real concerns. This is not a good way to build customer loyalty. Woot, this is laughable. Why are you letting this guy run his mouth while representing you.

You're telling us that 1/2 in does matter. i know the length of the shirts. I can look them up on the website. Please don't treat us like children. I'm asking you for YOUR height because you oh so knowledgeable woot writer have deemed this a non-issue for those of us who are tall and have longer torsos.

Jesus Christ man, I was willing to give you all a chance, but if this is what woot's customer service is, why should I spend money here? If this is the new woot, maybe you should be worried about your American job. I'm not asking you to kiss my ass, but some civility when representing your employer should be par for the course.

I work with criminals all day, and I'm far more professional to them than you're being to your customers.

OK, I'm not happy about plenty of things re: shirt woot lately, this recent change most especially. But Woot! has *fantastic* customer service and super cool employees.

Being snarky on a message board isn't poor customer service. Chill out.

Personally I love snark on both sides, snark away! People are too sensitive.

llandar wrote:I totally understand the concern, but at the end of the day I trust the Shirt.Woot powers that be to make the best decisions for the company and I work side by side with them daily so I KNOW for a FACT they dearly care for the community and don't take this stuff lightly.

I've been kind of snarky in here because it's tough to see your friends attacked. I go to brunch with these people. I watch hockey games with them. I invite them to my birthday party. No one is lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills and laughing at how they pulled a fast one. This decision was agonized over.

You can't please 100% of the people, and we get that. But I know the decision was more about "how do we better supply our customers" than "let's stick it to these rubes real good." If the American thing is a deal breaker, I don't know how to assuage that. But if it's quality you're worrying about, give 'em a chance.

I can relate to this, and I feel for you guys who are trying to explain and have to cheerlead these changes.

bluetuba wrote:OK, I'm not happy about plenty of things re: shirt woot lately, this recent change most especially. But Woot! has *fantastic* customer service and super cool employees.

Being snarky on a message board isn't poor customer
Personally I love snark on both sides, snark away! People are too sensitive.

I'm just annoyed by the whole thing. I've always had good CS from woot.

But it would be nice if Mr "it is only 1/2in!" would either show us that he's someone for whom shirt length matters (ie long torso) or shut up about it. It annoys me because I own shirts that are exactly 3/8 the length of woot shirts and they don't fit as well. I wish this guy (who probably has a short torso) would lay off it.

If he answered the question in an snarky way, I wouldn't care.

Both yesterday and today I've worn Woot shirts bought over 2 years ago, and both still fit well and look good. I certainly hope Woot isn't going with an inferior shirt because there are a heck of a lot of other unique-design tee-shirt sites swarming the web for my business. Sadly this whole issue smacks of the Netflix episode of last summer. How did that work out for them I wonder?

Invisiblemoose wrote:You're refusing to acknowledge what pretty much everyone has identified as the primary concern -- the movement to a much cheaper blank coming directly after a 20% price hike supposedly necessary to maintain quality.

Uh, okay. I acknowledge it. Now what? I'm a writer. I have no input or insight into the financials of Shirt.

nmpls wrote:I'm just annoyed by the whole thing. I've always had good CS from woot.

But it would be nice if Mr "it is only 1/2in!" would either show us that he's someone for whom shirt length matters (ie long torso) or shut up about it. It annoys me because I own shirts that are exactly 3/8 the length of woot shirts and they don't fit as well. I wish this guy (who probably has a short torso) would lay off it.

If he answered the question in an snarky way, I wouldn't care.

I think the problem here is a misunderstanding of what's being asked for. llandar I believe (and I could be wrong on this) thinks you're looking for the measurements of the shirts. You are asking for measurements of his own torso to compare fitting to yours. Of course, as I said, I could be wrong and maybe llandar's personal measurements are somewhere on the shirt.woot homepage.

My $0.02:
I'm a woman & I really like how the ladies AA shirts feel & fit. Sure, they shrink a lot, but I just go up a size & that works well for me. The fact that AA makes its shirts in America is just tasty, tasty frosting on the already delicious cake of durable, soft fabric & great fit.
I'm certainly disappointed to hear that woot! will no longer be using AA blanks, especially after the recent $2 price hike. I'll probably still buy randoms (at least as long as they're AA shirts), but it's very, very unlikely that I'll be buying the shirts printed on the Anvil blanks.
Going through shirt.woot! withdrawal won't be any fun at all. Where's the 12 step program to help with that?

As a girl.woot-er, I have to say I'm not looking forward to switch in women's sizes. I absolutely love the AA shirts. They have been some of the only shirts I've found that are comfortable and fit like a t-shirt (loose and stretchy) while still having a flattering, girly cut. I do realize they run a bit on the small size, though, so I'm willing to give the new ones a chance. I'm just worried they'll be baggy around the arms/chest or tight around the waist like a lot of other women's shirts. I'm looking forward to the post at midnight with more information.

I'm less excited about this switch right after the price hike. And while I don't shop exclusively made-in-America, it is something that helped me justify purchasing the shirts I've bought since the increase.

I agree with other commenters that either a sale of the new blanks or a coupon for repeat shirt.wooters would be a good idea. This would give people a chance to try out the new shirts and hopefully give some positive feedback.

I just have a feeling I'll really miss the American Apparel shirts. Their perfect fit has definitely led me to impulse-buy more from Woot than I would have otherwise.

elezar wrote:Yeah, I saw that post of course, but I'm assuming there's something else that I must have missed. A lot of people that are referencing the lie seem to be more questioning "Didn't they say this" than statements that they DID say it. That was actually why I responded to Kim's post about it, as she seems quite sure that they made the statement.

Honestly, it's a value judgment. A lie of omission to me isn't any different than a lie. It's just a slicker form of manipulation.

I read the same posts that you guys did and the same poll. I saw the comments, the large number people who said that they meant American made with their vote and noticed the lack of comment, even when people took their silence to mean agreement I figured it wasn't a forever promise, but I also thought that they would correct people's misimpression if this were going to change soon. My assumption? That woot is a straightforward company doing business online and it makes sense they would indicate that they were considering a move away from an American vendor, if one was close at hand. Otherwise, why poll?

This has been in the work for 2 years. The poll was some sort of marketing backfire. Poorly handled, they'd have done better if they'd just done it and raised our prices. Behave like the business you intend to be and I will treat you as the business you are. And I am, I won't buy from an online seller that does this. There are too many other ways to meet the same wants. For me an online that isn't a clear communicator is not a good choice for something like this. I want to believe that the company will stand behind what they sell. I don't trust them to do that or to not change other policies without notice.

This year, I lost most of everything I own due to some unforeseen stuff. I've been replacing and shopping a lot, spending over ~2K with another ~2K left to replace. (Yay, savings?) I've spent a few hundred between here and at Amazon. This means I really do care about the manner in which woot conducts it's business. (And Amazon, since they now have some influence in how business gets done.) I don't have money to play with and risk on lower quality merchandise. I go with vendors that our honest with me.

Case in point: Almost all the furniture I've purchased has come from a place called Gothic Cabinet Craft, which is a local business with a local factory. It's American made, decent and not too expensive and my money is staying local. They also sell stuff from vendors who are not American. I saw this gorgeous chest that I started to purchase and made an off the cuff remark that it was American. The salesperson immediately told me that it was an outside vendor, and from Canada. (It was clearly labeled, I had assumed everything in the store was made by their factory.) She showed me a locally made one, and now, I can make a decision. I may buy it because I like it and so much that I've bought is local, but I'm making that decision. Her honesty? It means that I've chosen to pay a little more from items I could have found for less elsewhere.

I expected the same kind of integrity and transparency from woot.

dasknave wrote:I think the problem here is a misunderstanding of what's being asked for. llandar I believe (and I could be wrong on this) thinks you're looking for the measurements of the shirts. You are asking for measurements of his own torso to compare fitting to yours. Of course, as I said, I could be wrong and maybe llandar's personal measurements are somewhere on the shirt.woot homepage.

That's what I thought the first time, so I clarified.
Whatever, I'm not taking posting on an internet forum about nerdy t-shirts (I love nerdy t-shirts) too seriously.
Well, except that 1/2inch matters. Dead serious.

Regarding this poll conspiracy: polls are cooked up by the writers a few days in advance and generally have little to do with "secret marketing" or "pr." We just pick questions we think will spark conversation.

To see a poll on a different site and somehow infer it was a "test run" for the Shirt launch is quite a leap.

dasknave wrote:I think the problem here is a misunderstanding of what's being asked for. llandar I believe (and I could be wrong on this) thinks you're looking for the measurements of the shirts. You are asking for measurements of his own torso to compare fitting to yours. Of course, as I said, I could be wrong and maybe llandar's personal measurements are somewhere on the shirt.woot homepage.

I did misunderstand what he was asking for, my bad. I intend to limit disclosure of any identifying details about myself to a group of people so easily angered.

llandar wrote:Regarding this poll conspiracy: polls are cooked up by the writers a few days in advance and generally have little to do with "secret marketing" or "pr." We just pick questions we think will spark conversation.

To see a poll on a different site and somehow infer it was a "test run" for the Shirt launch is quite a leap.

I only just saw the poll today, so I'm certainly not arguing its validity in the results it presented. However, saying it's "quite a leap" for being on another site is sort of illogical to me. We aren't talking about Polldaddy; there are links to other woot sites all over the place, including signatures in this very thread!

I agree with all of the arguments raised today. It *is* a crappy way to conduct business, and it's so unlike the Woot that I know and love. I don't, however, like the amount of flack that the staff has received. They're doing they best that they can to assuage a bad situation that they probably had little to no control over. Can you really expect them to agree with the mob? Light a torch and say to hell with my job and supporting my company? I think everyone should lay off a bit. Get mad at woot, by all means, but have a little more respect for the staffers.

The top of the FAQ is fixed, but the section titled Why are the shirts so cheap? Aren’t all-cotton, sweatshop-free tees usually more expensive?, is still stating that the shirts are made in the usa.

"Yes, we do pay more to have Woot Tees made in the USA without sweatshop labor. No, they’re not refurbished (good idea though, we’ll look into that.) We simply have this compulsive need to sell cool stuff cheap. Much to our economic professors’ chagrin, Woot staff still can’t figure out this whole supply-and-demand thing."

And the Sizing Chart on the FAQ page is still going to the AA sizes AND says made in the USA.


I think that's it...

llandar wrote:I did misunderstand what he was asking for, my bad. I intend to limit disclosure of any identifying details about myself to a group of people so easily angered.

You sound short. ;)

thumperchick wrote:The top of the FAQ is fixed, but the section titled Why are the shirts so cheap? Aren’t all-cotton, sweatshop-free tees usually more expensive?, is still stating that the shirts are made in the usa.



And the Sizing Chart on the FAQ page is still going to the AA sizes AND says made in the USA.


I think that's it...

Thank you. I'll fix that ASAP tomorrow.

llandar wrote:I did misunderstand what he was asking for, my bad. I intend to limit disclosure of any identifying details about myself to a group of people so easily angered.

When an unknown person asks for your measurements, the correct response is: Greek God

nmpls wrote:You sound short. ;)

NOW YOU'RE OVER THE LINE, PAL!

FISTICUFFS!

morgankohl wrote:I agree with all of the arguments raised today. It *is* a crappy way to conduct business, and it's so unlike the Woot that I know and love. I don't, however, like the amount of flack that the staff has received. They're doing they best that they can to assuage a bad situation that they probably had little to no control over. Can you really expect them to agree with the mob? Light a torch and say to hell with my job and supporting my company? I think everyone should lay off a bit. Get mad at woot, by all means, but have a little more respect for the staffers.

THIS.

Having been through these sorts of unpopular decisions at my own company, the folks on the front lines often have little, if any control over the decision, but have to put on the company face and take all the heat. Eventually, even the nicest person cracks under all the abuse.

Lay off, folks. We're talking cheap shirts, not the cure for cancer or world peace.

ProfHotpants wrote:The Men's blanks are identical in chest width and are less than 1/2 inch shorter in length, so we didn't feel these needed as extensive an explanation.

I've asked about sleeve length and circumference on the men's shirts compared to the AA blanks, but it appears it was missed or ignored. Can I please get this information?

llandar wrote:Regarding this poll conspiracy: polls are cooked up by the writers a few days in advance and generally have little to do with "secret marketing" or "pr." We just pick questions we think will spark conversation.

To see a poll on a different site and somehow infer it was a "test run" for the Shirt launch is quite a leap.

So, woot's managers have very little oversight into the content of the website? That is highly unusual in corporate America.

morgankohl wrote:When an unknown person asks for your measurements, the correct response is: Greek God

KimNicole wrote:

I expected the same kind of integrity and transparency from woot.

We pride ourselves on transparency. Seriously. One of the factors for annual reviews is how honest and open we are with you guys. Our livelihoods literally depend on it.

We crafted the announcement and launched it as soon as the new blanks were starting to hit inventory. If we tried to notify you guys every time something might happen or we were thinking about some stuff, the signal to noise ratio would degrade to the point where you'd hate us for always posting "maybes."

We posted this update to let you guys know what was going on. Obviously some people are taking the news better than others, but we're doing our best to make sure you're the first to know.

nmpls wrote: Well, except that 1/2inch matters. Dead serious.

That's what s/he said.

trekmiss wrote:I've asked about sleeve length and circumference on the men's shirts compared to the AA blanks, but it appears it was missed or ignored. Can I please get this information?

I'd also like to see this. Billowy sleeves is one of my main concerns.