Shirt.Woot

Fishbicuit5 "Celebrate Mediocrity" from derby 121



Tee Turtle "Celebrate Mediocrity"



BootsBoots "The Apathy Coalition" from derby 121



Tee Turtle "Apathy Alliance"

I think they use the derby designs as pretty influential referents (is that even a word?), but I don't think they are really thievery.

seriously?

fuzzzydunlop wrote:seriously?

I too have to agree, to me the designs are very different, it is the idea of the designs that are similar.

Of course the better question is how the respective artists feel...

Obviously, the designs are very different. The concepts are similar, and although it's not impossible that ramyb came up with them himself, it's more than likely that he did see those designs during the derby.

Yeah, they're not stolen, per se. He was most likely influenced by the others. On a different note, the originals are better, and the RamyB versions are rather uninspired when compared to his usual work.

killerorca wrote:I too have to agree, to me the designs are very different, it is the idea of the designs that are similar.

Of course the better question is how the respective artists feel...

I'll tell you how I feel:

Is it possible that Ramy isn't aware of the designs?
No. He's aware of "The Apathy Coalition." It's one of Woot's high selling shirts, and it battled his designs on the reckoning for a good while.

Are the designs similar enough that some legal course of action could be taken?
No. I don't think so.

Did he knowingly use the concept of someone else's work and change it just enough to pass?
Absolutely.

Is there anything wrong with that?
Yes. It's kind of a jerk move.

I actually have had nothing against Ramy in the past. You can scour the forums and see that I've never really said anything about him. I thought I even had kind of a good relationship with him. But, this totally rubs me the wrong way. I do not like it.

BootsBoots wrote:I'll tell you how I feel:

Is it possible that Ramy isn't aware of the designs? No. He's aware of "The Apathy Coalition." It's one of Woot's high selling shirts, and it battled his designs on the reckoning for a good while.

Are the designs similar enough that some legal course of action could be taken? No. I don't think so. I think he probably changed just enough.

Did he knowingly use the concept of someone else's work and change it just enough to pass? Absolutely.

Is there anything wrong with that? Yes. It's a jerk move.

I actually have had nothing against Ramy in the past. You can scour the forums and see that I've never really said anything about him. I thought I even had kind of a good relationship with him. But, this totally rubs me the wrong way. I do not like it.

I feel the same as Jamie. I have also never had any negative interaction with Ramy, in fact, I've only thought how good he is at being successful here.

Do I think "Celebrate Mediocrity" with the letter "C" circled in red is a coincidence? No, I don't. My design was in the derby, it was for sale at Teefury, it was for sale at Qwertee, it is now for sale at CaptainKYSO and the link was posted here very recently. In fact, CaptainKYSO currently holds the rights to that design.

I think this kind of stinks.

Decidedly fertilizer in my opinion.

Not cool at all. Idea poaching is just as bad as copying a design. What makes the Celebrate Mediocrity thing any different from Seki's World Nomination swipe?

I had this same thing happen recently with my Magnum Pi design by Snorg Tees. The art wasn't lifted/ript'd but the concept was. Its frustrating because there's not much I as an artist can do when someone lifts your concept. But in this stituation with Ramyb its more frustrating since this is a fellow artist on this site which we all know and compete with weekly blatantly lifting a concept from fellow artists. Not cool.

I agree, especially hearing from the artists themselves. There is just a certain amount of respect we have for each other here.

He saw these entries... to do something similar is a jerk move and one based on money... as there is no real artistic drive behind this.

Sad, very sad.

Golly, there are just so many cases of ramyB taking someones concept, reworking it in his own fashion, and pawning it off as his own (which is art theft for those who don't know!). I just can't believe there are still people defending him, especially after he was caught redhanded stealing a fellow artist creation during the "all things that start with O" derby.

This design:


Really, this design is more of a direct copy than his ex-girlfriend that got banned...

I use to defend ramyB when I was new here, when I didn't know any better, but now, I would have to be dumb or in denial. He definitely saw the two design mentioned above, and saw that they were successful design. I feel sorry for Boots and Fishbuscuit5

The little speech bubble with Meh in it even specifically reminds me of something Boots has done before, or would totally do, lol

I don't think anybody who's followed Ramyb over the years (and isn't a fanboi) would be surprised at all by this.

I think he's smart enough to steal just enough to get away with it, and I doubt he'd do it as blatantly as Seki did.

I expect his website to be filled with cute chibi animals, stripped down concepts stolen from the derby and other shirt sites, and deviantart, heh

Hmm. Pretty blatant, and of course he didn't directly copy them as he knew that way he'd get in trouble. This way he just looks like a dirt bag, and I guess that doesn't bother him. It's a shame that he feels the need to find success off the hard work and ideas of others.

I would hope woot and other sites would take these kinds of things into consideration when dealing with these kinds of artists in the future. Of course, they're making money so it's probably not likely. But it sure would be nice to see them take a stand against this type of behavior, and it would be rather reinforcing to the rest of the artists to continue submitting without fear of their ideas being lifted and reworked.

Reminds me of all the "Goach" and "Prado" gear along Canal street. Sleazy, yes, but the masses still buy it.

endangeredomega wrote:Reminds me of all the "Goach" and "Prado" gear along Canal street. Sleazy, yes, but the masses still buy it.

Wooah, Louis Vuitton never made a sweatsuit
But you're swearin' up and down, that you got the Louie boots
So you roll to the swap meet, girlfriend buttless
Rip phantom top on your seven six Cutlass
In the shop Louis Vee is what you seek
Black Knight Cortez slippin' on your feet
You're saggin', droop like a bawla
Your girl starts walkin' towards the counter, so you call her
Oooh, this is on. Why don't you get this for me?
Everytime you hit the swap meet, it's gimme, gimme, gimme.
.
.
.
Swap Meet Louie, clockin' lotsa dolla's
Swap Meet Louie, we all got gold
Swap Meet Louie, black silk jackets
Swap Meet Louie, rich flaunt clout
Swap Meet Louie, Swap Meet Louie

When I first looked at that site I saw several that made me think of other artist's designs.

I thought it was just me though as Ramy annoys me on many levels.

He'll be along soon to explain why we're wrong.

taternuggets wrote:
I thought it was just me though as Ramy annoys me on many levels.

He's been annoying so many Wooter's for so long. But at least artists were on his side, Now he's giving finger to his own collaborators.

What is the difference between taking an idea and reworking it and stealing art? That's like saying selling bootleg tees in the parking lot at a sports event isn't stealing because the "artwork" is original.

chennai8 wrote:He's been annoying so many Wooter's for so long. But at least artists were on his side, Now he's giving finger to his own collaborators.

It seems to be the case though that it doesn't matter if he angers other artists, since the average wooter will come along and still vote his entries up in the derby...

You see one design that is similar in concept to another artist's, it could be a coincidence, it happens. But when you see a few like this, and they are all coming from the same source (fellow woot artists) it does seem awfully suspicious.

Quote: I think he's smart enough to steal just enough to get away with it

This quote is sad. Nobody should need to steal bits and pieces of art (or ideas) to make their own designs. And the fact that he needs to do that says all sorts of things about his character... As artists, we all get similar ideas from time to time, but this seems to happen quite a bit. Way more than can be explained by 'just a coincidence'...

I sprayed soda on my monitor reading the FAQ.

"Q: What if I want to do a design for your site?

A: We are not currently accepting outside designs, but if you have suggestions for things you would like to see, we would love to hear them!"


Yeah. I'll bet you would.

OK! I understand now! I had no idea who was reworking the concepts, nor, really, that the concepts weren't more like common knowledge. I certainly didn't know them, but, even now, I STILL don't exactly understand what the Nyan cat is, as apparently famous as THAT is (and unrelated to these). «clueless

What I saw was that the idea was used, but reworked into a different design. Considering who it was, I can't condone it in any way.

in before "ur all just jealous" or

bluetuba wrote:in before "ur all just jealous" or....

So... is Ramy even going to address this? What about Woot as these were Woot derby shirts?

I've visited the site and it looked (to me) like a place for Ramy to sell designs that fogged in a derby, got a lot of positive feedback, but didn't place; I thought it was a good thing for him. Heck, he must have dozens (if not hundreds) of designs laying around that were derby submissions that didn't print. I guess the "borrowed" designs are from before I started wooting because I didn't recognize them, though I did notice that they are very different than anything I have seen Ramy do in the year or so that I've been around. I was planning on purchasing from the site, so glad that I didn't get around to it - I will pass on teeturtle.

grrlmarvel wrote:So... is Ramy even going to address this? What about Woot as these were Woot derby shirts?

As these entries were submitted long ago, all rights would have reverted back to the artist.

In the past year, I've given the benefit of the doubt, and two-steps-forward-one-step-back is still one step forward.

This... is two steps back.

One thing I will note is that there are reasons why the rejectionator exists here, and playing with pop-culture has its risks.

Narfcake wrote:As these entries were submitted long ago, all rights would have reverted back to the artist.

In the past year, I've given the benefit of the doubt, and two-steps-forward-one-step-back is still one step forward.

This... is two steps back.

One thing I will note is that there are reasons why the rejectionator exists here, and playing with pop-culture has its risks.

Except the Apathy Coalition, that was a printed, and recently reprinted design that woot would still hold the rights to if I'm not mistaken.

Johndis5 wrote:Except the Apathy Coalition, that was a printed, and recently reprinted design that woot would still hold the rights to if I'm not mistaken.

Good point. But this is Woot we're talking about too ... do you really expect any real action will be taken?

Narfcake wrote:Good point. But this is Woot we're talking about too ... do you really expect any real action will be taken?

I don't think there is any action that could be taken. He stole the concept of the shirt Woot still has the rights to, not the actual design. He changed the wording, the slogan, and the graphic in the center. WE all "saw what he did there" and think it's ultra-sleazy (lots of us already thought he was anyway ^^) but the 10,000 fans he's got won't care. Well, maybe our talking about it will change a few minds, but drops in a bucket you know?

bluetuba wrote:I don't think there is any action that could be taken. He stole the concept of the shirt Woot still has the rights to, not the actual design. He changed the wording, the slogan, and the graphic in the center. WE all "saw what he did there" and think it's ultra-sleazy (lots of us already thought he was anyway ^^) but the 10,000 fans he's got won't care. Well, maybe our talking about it will change a few minds, but drops in a bucket you know?

As I said, I use to defend ramyB when I was new and didn't know any better. At the very least it informs people that by buying/ supporting designs like these, they are basically spitting in the face of a true, repeatable artist. They are being disrespectful and they may not even know it. Whether they care or not is a different story.

Also I really doubt ramyB is going to jump into the lions den. I'm pretty sure he knows his "excuses" won't fly with this crowd. As for woot, they can't really step in either. If they side with ramyB, they are basically pissing on boots and FB5 (and art in general), and if they have to side with us, they would have to banned RamyB, what many call shirt.woot cash cow. Silence is the "smart" response here.

BootsBoots wrote:I'll tell you how I feel:

Is it possible that Ramy isn't aware of the designs?
No. He's aware of "The Apathy Coalition." It's one of Woot's high selling shirts, and it battled his designs on the reckoning for a good while.

Are the designs similar enough that some legal course of action could be taken?
No. I don't think so.

Did he knowingly use the concept of someone else's work and change it just enough to pass?
Absolutely.

Is there anything wrong with that?
Yes. It's kind of a jerk move.

I actually have had nothing against Ramy in the past. You can scour the forums and see that I've never really said anything about him. I thought I even had kind of a good relationship with him. But, this totally rubs me the wrong way. I do not like it.

But I thought imitation was the the sincerest form of flattery??? Just kidding....

On a side note... I've only been around Woot for
Short while - Boots, I never saw your Apathy one - that is great! I wish I had been around to snag that one!

chumpmagic wrote:As I said, I use to defend ramyB when I was new and didn't know any better. At the very least it informs people that by buying/ supporting designs like these, they are basically spitting in the face of a true, repeatable artist. They are being disrespectful and they may not even know it. Whether they care or not is a different story.

Also I really doubt ramyB is going to jump into the lions den. I'm pretty sure he knows his "excuses" won't fly with this crowd. As for woot, they can't really step in either. If they side with ramyB, they are basically pissing on boots and FB5 (and art in general), and if they have to side with us, they would have to banned RamyB, what many call shirt.woot cash cow. Silence is the "smart" response here.

Well, I think if Woot remains silent it's pretty telling which side they are coming down on.

ramy has been an idea thief since he first got here. Look at his earliest designs and it's already clear that he's taking ideas from other artists, slightly reworking them, and then passing them off on his own. Not to mention anyone who bought the excuse that, "It was only seki who copied," is quite frankly an incredibly naive rube.

This doesn't shock me the least bit. It was always a matter of when he'd get caught not if he would do it. What shocks me is that people are still surprised. I'm quite sure the same people will run and scream that I just hate ramy, but well now you know why.

taternuggets wrote:Well, I think if Woot remains silent it's pretty telling which side they are coming down on.

Shareholder's equity.