julejules


quality posts: 0 Private Messages julejules
ramyb wrote:Where to begin- I was away this weekend and just saw this thread last night, and by that point there was a lot to read so I decided to wait until the morning
.....



This didn't seem rude to me. It seemed like a valid and fair response. I was surprised others saw it differently. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, people will tend to see things how they want to.

I don't see anything wrong with having similar designs. Like the Bring Pluto Back design. I like Odyssey's better, that's the one I would wear. It's a different style. Not everyone likes the same style, but they might like the same idea. It seems like it would be fine to create different styles to appeal to different people.

taternuggets


quality posts: 21 Private Messages taternuggets

There's a lot of enablers around here.



Nothing follows.

loridi


quality posts: 5 Private Messages loridi
odysseyroc wrote:Perhaps they were just inspired by it. There's no way to really know.



Johndis5 wrote:Perhaps they were just inspired by it. There's no way to really know.



Ah... yes, maybe they were. Hopefully, they'll be inspired elsewhere next time. *shields her huge pile of tees*

newnie


quality posts: 2 Private Messages newnie
taternuggets wrote:There's a lot of enablers around here.



Do we really need these enablers? I think if we take a look at our process map and identify only our value-added steps, we'll really streamline our process....

/you've just been six sigma'd

slacker44


quality posts: 7 Private Messages slacker44
neuropsychosocial wrote:

Secondly, I do not believe that it is helpful to retaliate against Ramy. Many woot.artists have been open and honest in this thread about how they develop ideas and check to see if others have done them already, and about how Ramy's actions have made them feel. I think Ramy knows that he's done wrong and his reaction to having it pointed out to him seems to be defensiveness. Mocking him, here or in the Derby, is unlikely to garner the result y'all are seeking. It doesn't model good behavior and it undermines the suggestions that have been made to Ramy.



I understand your point, but I'm not going to lie. I'm kind of disappointed I didn't get to see the entire submission before it was removed. All I saw was the thumbnail.

Narfcake


quality posts: 279 Private Messages Narfcake
slacker44 wrote:I understand your point, but I'm not going to lie. I'm kind of disappointed I didn't get to see the entire submission before it was removed. All I saw was the thumbnail.



You didn't miss anything (turbunguins).

Despite its exaggerated awfulness (IMHO), I was much more concerned about the votes it still got.

citizencoyote


quality posts: 42 Private Messages citizencoyote
BootsBoots wrote:
...I can't believe after this whole thread, I chose to comment on the grammar.


fishbiscuit5 wrote:
I also cannot believe this thread has turned into a grammar lesson. :P



I find it totally awesome that the thread devolved into a grammar lesson.

Oh, and for the record, Kawaii Trail of Tears would make an awesome band name. Or a good "_____ is the name of my _____ cover band" joke. Someone more witty than I can run with that one.

krodo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages krodo
Mavyn wrote:20 years ago I was a straight A student. Now, no one grades my papers.



Loved your response here, Mavyn. Light, non-defensive. Made me smile. But you can't take credit for derailing the thread, just having bad grammar. ..jes sayin'

Ahhh: The derailment. It surely cracked me up. The grammar error was so obvious to me that I didn't think it had to be explained. Imagine my surprise, tuning in a few days later, to see how NOT obvious it was to many people. D'oh d'oh! Often an easy way to check your grammar is drop off some compounds and see what sounds right--which someone finally suggested (e.g., you would say "me chose"? No!). N.B.: It's the object of the preposition, BTW, not the object of the sentence necessarily, that takes the pronoun "me" over "I." "Between you and me" = correct. "Between you and I" = incorrect.

But I digress.

Glad everyone stopped virtually lynching Ramy for a bit. As an outsider, I really did feel a lot of haters hating, and Haters, between you and me, that's your problem, not Ramy's. Look inward, Grasshoppers. Where's all that anger coming from? So easy to impute tone and sarcasm where it wasn't intended in an email. Read every email with a few voices in your head and you'll see, nothing is cut and dried. The exercise will make you write less and read more...and you will become smarter, more empathic, better. Otherwise you look invested in turning opinion against someone, in making a case, in proselytizing. That's oh so boring and looks like jealousy. Ugly ugly ugly.

As your mother said (or should have): If you don't have something nice to say....

Big hugs and air kisses, Everyone!

krodo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages krodo
krodo wrote:So easy to impute tone and sarcasm where it wasn't intended in an email.



Oh crap.
So easy to impute tone and sarcasm where THEY WEREN'T intended in an email.
My bad.

bluetuba


quality posts: 57 Private Messages bluetuba

*edit*

Suddenly I feel trolled, GOOD DAY SIR!

blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
krodo wrote:

Glad everyone stopped virtually lynching Ramy for a bit. As an outsider, I really did feel a lot of haters hating, and Haters, between you and me, that's your problem, not Ramy's. Look inward, Grasshoppers. Where's all that anger coming from? So easy to impute tone and sarcasm where it wasn't intended in an email. Read every email with a few voices in your head and you'll see, nothing is cut and dried. The exercise will make you write less and read more...and you will become smarter, more empathic, better. Otherwise you look invested in turning opinion against someone, in making a case, in proselytizing. That's oh so boring and looks like jealousy. Ugly ugly ugly.



I rarely read anything with sarcastic undertones. Maybe it is because I mostly read satire, but I find it easy to tell the difference between sarcasm and straight forward anger in text. And whether Ramy intentionally attacked the people like fish who weren't attacking him or was just not able to reply to this thread without bitterness is up for debate.

But part of the issue (not the shirt.woot issue but the overall communication of the world has gone to The Force issue) is outsiders first thought about drama is thinking those bringing up anything negative must be haters. True people jumped in here with things that are questionable, watering down the message, but the overall sentiment is not about hate. It is disappointment:

aerc712 wrote:This whole situation is so disappointing.



BootsBoots wrote:

I actually have had nothing against Ramy in the past. You can scour the forums and see that I've never really said anything about him. I thought I even had kind of a good relationship with him. But, this totally rubs me the wrong way. I do not like it.



One who mentioned hate and often comes off as excessively abrasive (at least once the master of that took a break):

mrwednesday wrote:

This doesn't shock me the least bit. It was always a matter of when he'd get caught not if he would do it. What shocks me is that people are still surprised. I'm quite sure the same people will run and scream that I just hate ramy, but well now you know why.



There were several who hoped he had improved, not that he would make things they would wear, but that he gained civility as an artist. They feel betrayed in that hope, though I'm not adding their comments to this long post. Personally I wish I was surprised.



The only time 'Haters gonna Hate' is appropriate is in response to a troll who's comment is 'Ha, you like this?!? It sucks and by extension everything you have ever loved sucks.' If you reply to any other statement with that meme you are merely trying to avoid knowledge, but in an active manner. But on the plus side those that think that way can really rock apathy shirts.

mrjag123


quality posts: 2 Private Messages mrjag123
mrwednesday wrote:It's more than I expected that you'd admit to stealing from Boots. Now you just need to admit all the other designs you've stolen. You went on a long tirade about ideas. There's a reason you can't copyright an idea, you are correct, because everyone can have them independently. What can be copyrighted and why people are pissed is because what you are stealing are specific design elements. This isn't about two people making Dr. Who as an owl shirts (though given that the shirt you copied from is high on the google image results it's no surprise that's where you ripped from).

The ring design from this design as tarmawolf pointed out:


is exactly the same as from you Darkness design minus some tiny changes in flames:



That isn't two independent people coming up with the same idea. That's you looking up designs before the derby and stealing design elements in their entirety. It's unethical, it's wrong, and it's no different than Seki and World Nomination.

You're pathetic for pretending what you're doing is ok and woot is even more pathetic for allowing it because if you sold less shirts you'd be banned already.

edit:

Just to be clear, my original post had originally not referred back to tarmawolf's post. As I pressed the button I thought better of it because I didn't discover that connection and it would be wrong for me to represent as if I had. And we are just talking about a post on a forum not stealing other people's work to profit from it. It matters.



just wondering woot staff, how much of a design (or design elements) needs to be copied/lifted/plagarized from another source for it to get rejected?

i've not seen any comments on this, and if i dont get an answer i'm going elsewhere for good.

bluetuba


quality posts: 57 Private Messages bluetuba
geekfactor12 wrote:I'm also having a hard time seeing the art nouveau flame border comparison as legitimate. Obviously both artists are using Mucha's work as their inspiration, from which both are borrowing the motif of the arc border and embedded circles. It is in no way exceptional or unusual that Ramy would choose to use a flame there.



I found geekfactor's explanation satisfying enough.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5

Oh!

move along

citizencoyote


quality posts: 42 Private Messages citizencoyote

Not to open up this can of worms again, but where is that from?

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
citizencoyote wrote:Not to open up this can of worms again, but where is that from?



Design By Humans. It's featured on teemagnet today.

My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

grisca


quality posts: 0 Private Messages grisca
citizencoyote wrote:Not to open up this can of worms again, but where is that from?



Today's DBH design

citizencoyote


quality posts: 42 Private Messages citizencoyote
Mavyn wrote:Design By Humans. It's featured on teemagnet today.



Thanks. I guess this is one instance where someone could claim inspiration from Ramy.

anoted


quality posts: 1 Private Messages anoted

This has obviously gone very off-topic and gotten very heated.

But when you search for someone on google and the top results include banning petitions and various scandals involving the artist--and these are all outside woot by the way, then either the person in question just attracts hatred and controversy even though they are innocent, or their artistic activities aren't above board.

And while I'm sure that sometimes there are grand conspiracies, the simplest explanation is generally the best and you usually have to do something to prompt a grand conspiracy. And not everyone who stirs the pot gets a page on Encyclopedia Dramatica.

If you're a talented artist and can make enough money just selling t-shirts and posters of your art, then congratulations, that's great. Whether or not I like your art, congrats.

But if you can only make that money by mass-production of prints and registering for multiple tables at anime and art conventions under different names and have friends and family man the booths, then there's something wrong.

And if you can only make that money by flooding woot derbies with an entry a week, working with (I don't know if she's currently your girlfriend or friend or whatever) someone to bring as large a cash flow in as possible, that's not really about art. And yes, some of them are quite obviously just blatant rip-offs of other artists, and others really come way to close to the line.

Granted, I'm just taking other people's word and the evidence they've documented. It could all be a giant lie and the evidence well-fabricated. But assuming that it's not, I do have a problem with all this. because it's not making money off of your talent and your art...it's gaming the system to make money. If the derby challenge is not something which you can't easily adjust prepared characters and design features to fit, then you make the biggest stretches to fit the topic, or just completely ignore it. And your activities outside of woot are in many ways worse--ironically it appears that here is where you're the most honest.

The really ironic part is that you aren't a bad or unoriginal artist. If you go back in time and look at your old artwork that you were posting years and years ago, it's good.

And I do think woot overlooks way too much. And if they think peoples on the internet are never going to notice and a pissed off artist is never going to go after woot, then they're wrong. I know they specifically built a business plan where they aren't at fault if an artist does something like this. But when you're dealing with artists where woot has been warned over and over and the artist's designs have been booted more than once, woot is eventually going to need those deep amazon pockets and lawyers.



But that's just my two-cents.

bounty42


quality posts: 15 Private Messages bounty42
anoted wrote:This has obviously gone very off-topic and gotten very heated.

But that's just my two-cents.



This has OBVIOUSLY been dead for 1 month, or 44 days, or 5 Reckonings, Take your pick.

the only thing your 2 cents could possibly do at this point is start up the flames agains.



Numquam minoris aestimo potentia stultis, maxime in magna coetus
------------------------------------
■(1:40 PM, 7/27/2012) bounty42 quips, "Forget Guest Editor, what we need is a Guest Rejectionator."
■(10:40 AM, 6/21/2012 ) bounty42 inquires, "Is it just me, or do we not typically get this many Editors Choice shirts?"
■(2:02 PM, 6/15/2012) bounty42 runs numbers.
■(10:40 AM, 6/7/2012) bounty42 dispenses wisdom for all those 'too late' naysayers, "A woot shirt is never late, nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it means to."
■(3:20 PM, 5/18/2012) bounty42 states, "The turtle is very cute, and I love the smug look he's got."

4khaos


quality posts: 8 Private Messages 4khaos
bounty42 wrote:the only thing your 2 cents could possibly do at this point is start up the flames agains.

His 2 cents provided me some Lolz with LolRamy.gif. But I agree.

anoted


quality posts: 1 Private Messages anoted
bounty42 wrote:This has OBVIOUSLY been dead for 1 month, or 44 days, or 5 Reckonings, Take your pick.

the only thing your 2 cents could possibly do at this point is start up the flames agains.



So you're one of those narrow minded people who thinks time only moves in one direction. And apparently measures time in woots. Sorry, hate to disturb that.

Look, just because people can communicate instantly and do, doesn't mean everyone does. I use the internet and understand that in a matter of minutes people can start and resolve world war III, but I don't have to like that and I don't have to do that or move at that pace. I write letters and mail them and wait for a response. I prefer talking on the phone to texting. And while I think it's wonderful that you can get online and get a response in seconds, that doesn't mean I'm not going to respond to something a week, a month or years old. These forums do not have time limits locking them, and you don't have to read what I write and you don't have to reply.

Maybe someone two years from now will find it useful. Maybe no one will. Maybe everyone will hate what I wrote. But because of when I wrote it? It's not like I'm having the battle of New Orleans after a peace treaty has been signed. Honestly. Besides, they didn't know a peace treaty had been signed.

Honestly, overreact much?

bounty42


quality posts: 15 Private Messages bounty42
anoted wrote:So you're one of those narrow minded people who thinks time only moves in one direction. And apparently measures time in woots. Sorry, hate to disturb that.

Look, just because people can communicate instantly and do, doesn't mean everyone does. I use the internet and understand that in a matter of minutes people can start and resolve world war III, but I don't have to like that and I don't have to do that or move at that pace. I write letters and mail them and wait for a response. I prefer talking on the phone to texting. And while I think it's wonderful that you can get online and get a response in seconds, that doesn't mean I'm not going to respond to something a week, a month or years old. These forums do not have time limits locking them, and you don't have to read what I write and you don't have to reply.

Maybe someone two years from now will find it useful. Maybe no one will. Maybe everyone will hate what I wrote. But because of when I wrote it? It's not like I'm having the battle of New Orleans after a peace treaty has been signed. Honestly. Besides, they didn't know a peace treaty had been signed.

Honestly, overreact much?



No, and I have a very good example to show you how it's not over reacting.

In defference to your time preference though, I'll not be posting it here until early 2013. Enjoy!



Numquam minoris aestimo potentia stultis, maxime in magna coetus
------------------------------------
■(1:40 PM, 7/27/2012) bounty42 quips, "Forget Guest Editor, what we need is a Guest Rejectionator."
■(10:40 AM, 6/21/2012 ) bounty42 inquires, "Is it just me, or do we not typically get this many Editors Choice shirts?"
■(2:02 PM, 6/15/2012) bounty42 runs numbers.
■(10:40 AM, 6/7/2012) bounty42 dispenses wisdom for all those 'too late' naysayers, "A woot shirt is never late, nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it means to."
■(3:20 PM, 5/18/2012) bounty42 states, "The turtle is very cute, and I love the smug look he's got."

unavaca


quality posts: 6 Private Messages unavaca

I was supposed to go to work half an hour ago... and instead, spent the last half hour reading about the drama. Ramy's ED page is especially enlightening.

unavaca


quality posts: 6 Private Messages unavaca
4khaos wrote:His 2 cents provided me some Lolz with LolRamy.gif. But I agree.



That was, admittedly, awesome.