Shirt.Woot

The new women's shirt sizing is very large and unflattering. The smalls fit me perfectly before, but are now big and baggy looking. If you didn't wear small before, why not just order a medium instead of this odd size inflation? If you've ordered women's sizes before that fit properly, I would recommend taking measurements for the new sizes. If you're small, I'd recommend not buying these shirts at all.

nefrisk wrote:The new women's shirt sizing is very large and unflattering. The smalls fit me perfectly before, but are now big and baggy looking. If you didn't wear small before, why not just order a medium instead of this odd size inflation? If you've ordered women's sizes before that fit properly, I would recommend taking measurements for the new sizes. If you're small, I'd recommend not buying these shirts at all.

I just received a medium myself and was devastated to find it the size and shape of a men's medium. I'm aware of the changes being made at woot and that this change is supposedly only slightly changing the sizing for women, but the difference between my last purchase and this one is HUGE. It is the same size as my brother's medium, and is not fitted at all. I am waiting for a response to my email from a woot rep, and am hoping the issue can be resolved. Unfortunately though, if this is the standard of sizing to expect, I'm not even going to bother buying a small as I'm not willing (as an international buyer!) to be disappointed again.

It's nice that they're making considerations for curvy women, but they've unfortunately cast out some of us "beanpole" women in the process.

I have a sewing machine and can alter the t-shirt, but it's still somewhat of an hassle to deal with.

I haven't purchased a women's small yet in the new sizing, so hopefully it'll fit like the old sizing's medium.

I e-mailed them too since the women's medium I received looked like a men's medium since the tag only shows "M" and not "WM" like all the other shirts I have purchased. I was told it is indeed a women's medium, just in the new sizing.

Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)
[from the CDC site]

Anvil is just trying to make the masses* feel better so they don't have to buy 3XL sizes. Or they just can't be bothered to size anything.

Either way, it sucks.

*I recognize that there are actually people who aren't overweight/obese and need huge sizes because they're, well, naturally huge. I'm just suggesting a theory on why the sizing seems over-sized.

The basic consensus in the other threads here is that anyone who was a WS or WM in the old USA-made blanks no longer have an option with the new imported blanks.

4khaos wrote:Anvil is just trying to make the masses* feel better so they don't have to buy 3XL sizes. Or they just can't be bothered to size anything.

Either way, it sucks.

*I recognize that there are actually people who aren't overweight/obese and need huge sizes because they're, well, naturally huge. I'm just suggesting a theory on why the sizing seems over-sized.

For most brands, I buy a L size shirt, but with the old AA blanks, a WXL was too small. Now, with Anvil, I can order L and get a shirt that fits. Just based off of my own experience with the different styles, the Anvil ones are a little closer to other shirts in regards to size.

Personal rant - Switching from women's sizes to men with AA was not fun. It's a bit demoralizing when you have to order a men's M or L despite the fact that for other products you can fit into a women's L with not problem. And for the record, I don't shop in the plus size department in any of the stores I go into, so I don't quite fall into the "huge" category. I hate these discussions of the Anvil sizes. Things devolve so quickly and I end up hating myself and feeling like Jabba the Hut because I like the fit of the Anvil shirts.

aerc712 wrote:
Personal rant - Switching from women's sizes to men with AA was not fun. It's a bit demoralizing when you have to order a men's M or L despite the fact that for other products you can fit into a women's L with not problem. And for the record, I don't shop in the plus size department in any of the stores I go into, so I don't quite fall into the "huge" category. I hate these discussions of the Anvil sizes. Things devolve so quickly and I end up hating myself and feeling like Jabba the Hut because I like the fit of the Anvil shirts.

I know there's another thread for this, but I'm gonna post here anyway :P.

I don't know you, fellow internet lady, but I can guarantee you that you aren't Jabba the Hut so please don't hate on yourself! I don't think that liking the Anvil fit automatically makes you unhealthy. Also, the AA men's sizes were more slim and fitted than a "normal" men's shirt, so a lot of women (at least those I've seen in the forums) chose to order those if the women's were too small. I think the label of "men's size" can be discouraging, but its really just a label. The AA "unisex" shirts fit just like the "men's" shirts in my opinion, and those are meant for both genders. Sometimes men's shirts from other brands fit me really well and I am tiny.

In my experience, the new smalls ARE larger than all my other small shirts, even ones bought from old navy and other big stores. Maybe the Anvil large shirts are closer to normal store sizes, but I only know that small ladies need an extra small if we want a flattering fit again! I feel like I've said this before...weird...

aerc712 wrote:For most brands, I buy a L size shirt, but with the old AA blanks, a WXL was too small. Now, with Anvil, I can order L and get a shirt that fits. Just based off of my own experience with the different styles, the Anvil ones are a little closer to other shirts in regards to size.

Personal rant - Switching from women's sizes to men with AA was not fun. It's a bit demoralizing when you have to order a men's M or L despite the fact that for other products you can fit into a women's L with not problem. And for the record, I don't shop in the plus size department in any of the stores I go into, so I don't quite fall into the "huge" category. I hate these discussions of the Anvil sizes. Things devolve so quickly and I end up hating myself and feeling like Jabba the Hut because I like the fit of the Anvil shirts.

I feel exactly this way. Putting aside the whole "not made in the USA" argument, Anvil actually FITS me and I like it. I feel bad for my smaller counterparts who are without size now, and really think Woot needs to do something for them somehow. But it's getting rough on the ol' self-esteem to see everybody complain on here how AA is "normal", because it makes me feel like a Tankasaurus Rex when I have to wear a dude's size and I know I'm not.

TL;DR - no real substance, just whining.

Heh...take heart--for some, even the 'gigantic, enormous, must be obese' Anvil don't fit. I could drop below my 'ideal bmi' and they won't fit across my shoulders. But that's nothing new for me. I was 5'11 in the 7th grade, and finding pants that weren't high-tiders meant shopping in the men's department. So everyone flipping out that 'oh noes, a tee doesn't FIT ME ANYMORE!!!' just comes across as utter whininess. You can't wear woot women's anymore? Well gee, I'm sure that's tragic. I can't walk into the mall and find a single dress that fits the way it's supposed to fit. I buy online because even lines that carry tall sizes likely don't do so in brick and mortar.

I've bowed out of the entire discussion as a result.

yankeebird wrote:I feel exactly this way. Putting aside the whole "not made in the USA" argument, Anvil actually FITS me and I like it. I feel bad for my smaller counterparts who are without size now, and really think Woot needs to do something for them somehow. But it's getting rough on the ol' self-esteem to see everybody complain on here how AA is "normal", because it makes me feel like a Tankasaurus Rex when I have to wear a dude's size and I know I'm not.

TL;DR - no real substance, just whining.

There's a 19 page thread on fit and I don't recall "everybody complaining on here how AA is normal." It's always been pretty widely acknowledged that AA runs very small with very little room in the chest, just as it's pretty widely acknowledged that Anvil women's sizes run large with a bell shape, short length and large neck & sleeves.

Women who liked the fit of AA dealt with plenty of posts that stated only "beanpoles" and young boys fit into women's AA. Women who like Anvil get to read comments about tent shirts. Ultimately, whether you chose to feel insulted or upset by how others view the fit really wraps up in you your own body image. Try not to let innocuous comments by strangers on the internet affect how you feel about yourself. It's not worth it.

Personally, I don't like the fit of either shirt, but given the choice between the two, I'd go with AA because of the quality & shirt length...two things that aren't adequate enough for me with the Anvil shirts.

elankat wrote:
Women who liked the fit of AA dealt with plenty of posts that stated only "beanpoles" and young boys fit into women's AA. Women who like Anvil get to read comments about tent shirts. Ultimately, whether you chose to feel insulted or upset by how others view the fit really wraps up in you your own body image. Try not to let innocuous comments by strangers on the internet affect how you feel about yourself. It's not worth it.

To argue that those who are upset by the shirt discussions, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, choose to let things get to them is one of the most absurd things that I have read in a long time. People of all shapes and sizes have issues with their bodies and it is darn near impossible to control that. People can be okay with their body, but then after reading oodles of comments saying "you're a beanpole" or "you're huge" it is darn tough to not be affected by it. If it doesn't get to you, congratulations, I wish I had your confidence. Instead, I'm one of the many who has body issues and has had to even seek help for it, so watch the BS in these discussions. You might think your words are harmless, but they can hurt.

I am sorry that the switch to Anvil made it difficult for some ladies to keep purchasing shirts here. I do wish woot could figure out something to remedy the situation.

Mavyn wrote:So everyone flipping out that 'oh noes, a tee doesn't FIT ME ANYMORE!!!' just comes across as utter whininess. You can't wear woot women's anymore? Well gee, I'm sure that's tragic.

Woot switched to larger sizes because people asked repeatedly on the forums, so I think its fair that people can ask over and over for smaller sizes now. The ladies who asked for bigger shirts had the right to do so without being made fun of, besides the AAs were really small. Now we have the right to ask for extra small shirts without being criticized for "whining".

ochopika wrote:Woot switched to larger sizes because people asked repeatedly on the forums, ...

I think the switch was more incidental than anything. I made a comparison here a couple months ago ...

ochopika wrote:Woot switched to larger sizes because people asked repeatedly on the forums, so I think its fair that people can ask over and over for smaller sizes now. The ladies who asked for bigger shirts had the right to do so without being made fun of, besides the AAs were really small. Now we have the right to ask for extra small shirts without being criticized for "whining".

As I said, I've bowed out.

I agree that there are sizing issues. I know all too well that it's tough not being able to find clothes that fit. That's been my life since I was 12. It's coming across that this is the first time they've had the problem, and some are throwing a fit. Sorry if I can't find much sympathy.

aerc712 wrote:To argue that those who are upset by the shirt discussions, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, choose to let things get to them is one of the most absurd things that I have read in a long time.

Absurd? Hardly. Yes, people absolutely choose whether or not a passing comment from a stranger about a shirt size running large or small is taken as a personal insult on their body.

Did I advocate anywhere in my comments that people should be cruel or unthoughful? No. However, my statement was far from absurd. Communication through the written word is highly subjective and significantly affected by the reader's mood and perspective. It lacks context, vocal intonation, and physical gestures that are key parts of communication. It's virtually impossible for someone to write in a manner that will never be taken negatively by anyone.

What I was suggesting is that people should try not to interpret a stranger's passing comment about a shirt size as a condemnation on their body. Feel good about yourself, regardless of whether you like the fit of Anvil or AA.

However, now that I think about it, I believe you and I have gotten into this discussion before and, iirc, I got the distinct impression that you and I wouldn't ever see eye to eye on this subject.

Therefore, I'm bowing out of this discussion.

Mavyn wrote:Heh...take heart--for some, even the 'gigantic, enormous, must be obese' Anvil don't fit. I could drop below my 'ideal bmi' and they won't fit across my shoulders. But that's nothing new for me. I was 5'11 in the 7th grade, and finding pants that weren't high-tiders meant shopping in the men's department. So everyone flipping out that 'oh noes, a tee doesn't FIT ME ANYMORE!!!' just comes across as utter whininess. You can't wear woot women's anymore? Well gee, I'm sure that's tragic. I can't walk into the mall and find a single dress that fits the way it's supposed to fit. I buy online because even lines that carry tall sizes likely don't do so in brick and mortar.

I've bowed out of the entire discussion as a result.

I'm pretty sure everyone has some kind of issues with clothes. My husband has can only buy work pants that have pleats because he has big thighs/butt. He has issues with work button up shirts because he has to buy them wide enough to fit his shoulders, but then they are way too long (except in the sleeves, which are too short). I have trouble buying work tops because there is not a lot of places carry petite sizes, and clothing in the 'teen' area is not work appropriate. And work shoes! For people with tiny feet, it's hard to find shoes that aren't obviously made for little kids!

Point being....we are all so different in shapes and sizes that I think 1 "standard" shirt is probably only going to make about 1/100 people 100% happy. Here's the The Force thing about making the switch to bigger sizes... while it brings in new potential customers, it's like a punch in the gut to long-time loyal customers. That sort of disreguard for your existing customers leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. It doesn't help either if the new customers you bring in, end up with an unraveled shirt with their first purchase.

Just something to think about...

Body size and shapes are loaded topics in the U.S., especially for women. There's pressure in one direction to have the body of a teenage boy, and in another direction to have a body with large breasts and hips, and "reality" TV seems to have introduced this weird mash-up body that's the waist and hips of a teenage boy with enormous breasts (note to men: not found in nature). And then there's the "moralistic" pressure, that one could be stick-thin simply if one had enough self-discipline.

None of this reflects the reality of being a woman in the U.S. None of this reflects the reality of the genetics that each of received from our parents that none of chose - but that's true for everyone, whether those genetics bestowed a petite frame or a more substantial one. Why are we battling each other instead of agreeing that it's not cool to judge anyone, including ourselves, for his/her body shape? Women frequently make demeaning comments to me about my body, judging me for being, well, thin, when I would never dream of making comments about their body. That's not okay. I wish that you wouldn't judge your own body, but you have absolutely no right to judge mine.

I have much sympathy - and some empathy - for women who are sensitive about their weight/size/shape and for women who have difficulty finding clothing that fits. My sympathy and patience is being strained, however, with reactions to the shirt sizes that are based not on the true fit, but on the label.

I wear children's underwear, size 10. Would I prefer Dora the Explorer or Disney princesses on those? (Thank goodness I don't know any of you IRL, but for the record, I'll note the answer is: neither.)I wear children's socks. I was once professionally measured for a bra: 26B. You know who sells 26B bras? Not a lot of places - and most manufacturers heavily, heavily pad bras on that end of the spectrum, because - hey, don't all women want larger breasts? (Hint: no.)I bought a pair of women's small fleece tights last week; they stretch from my toes to my armpits. Instead of feeling demoralized, or like I'm less of a "woman," I laugh: there's not many other options, eh, and I'd rather embrace the absurdity of the U.S. garment industry than feel badly about myself.

That may not be possible for everyone and it's not always an easy place to get to. I was long "one of the guys" and felt more comfortable as a teenager in jeans and a baggy t-shirt so I could stay one of the guys (hey, it was the '90s: with usenet, IRC, and 14.4k modems, we thought we were height of geek-cool). Woot t-shirts were some of the first clothing I found that were flattering to my 7/8th size body; for someone who hid in clothing for so many years, finding shirts that fit allowed me to embrace a body that I'd had no hand in choosing, and to feel more confident about myself. I still dress "modestly," but that no longer means a choice between clothing intended for 12 year old girls (cutesy) and clothing intended for 12 year old boys (superheros; after all, even heroes have the right to dream*).

What I wish for each of us is that we could find clothing that makes us feel good about ourselves when we look in the mirror. Those of you who have found that the Anvil shirts look better on you than the AA shirts? I'm genuinely glad for you. Those of you who have spent your lives searching for clothing that is flattering and in which you feel confident? I'm there with you. But those of you who like the size printed on the Anvil better than the size printed on AA? Cut out the label. Blame that sexist pig who runs AA for the ridiculously sized blanks. They would have more accurately been called "petite" or something, but they weren't. But sizing is only words: words can be used as weapons and hurt - we've been using them as weapons against each other since this shirt debate started - but they can also be "only words."

Anvil shirts are not "huge." They are huge on me. The AA ML that I just bought as a present for a friend? Huge on me; not huge on someone who's 5'10". Your ability to find a t-shirt that fits you does not need to take away my ability to find a t-shirt that fits me. I'm a little stunned at our willingness to throw each other under the bus over the words printed on labels - especially when the words we're arguing over are not "made in the USA" versus "made in Honduras/Nicaragua/Bangladesh."

I appreciated that woot shirts gave me a chance to express myself through humorous, poignant, or ironic images. I will miss that. I will miss this community and you all. I will not feel like less of an adult when I buy boys' shirts again, and I will not allow the words on the sizing labels to determine my self-confidence.

Shoot, this got long. If anyone made it this far, my apologies - but if you made it this far, I hope there was at least some fodder for thought.

*credit: Five for Fighting, "Superman"

elankat wrote:Absurd? Hardly. Yes, people absolutely choose whether or not a passing comment from a stranger about a shirt size running large or small is taken as a personal insult on their body.

Did I advocate anywhere in my comments that people should be cruel or unthoughful? No. However, my statement was far from absurd. Communication through the written word is highly subjective and significantly affected by the reader's mood and perspective. It lacks context, vocal intonation, and physical gestures that are key parts of communication. It's virtually impossible for someone to write in a manner that will never be taken negatively by anyone.

What I was suggesting is that people should try not to interpret a stranger's passing comment about a shirt size as a condemnation on their body. Feel good about yourself, regardless of whether you like the fit of Anvil or AA.

However, now that I think about it, I believe you and I have gotten into this discussion before and, iirc, I got the distinct impression that you and I wouldn't ever see eye to eye on this subject.

Therefore, I'm bowing out of this discussion.

I wish I could control how I react to statements that I read and hear. That would make things so much easier. For some of the comments about the shirt change I haven't had a problem, but then other times, my gut instinctual reaction is to feel bad. I have zero control over that. For me, as I admitted before, body image issues are something I struggle with and even admitted that I've sought help to deal with them, so just try and be more respectful when discussing this topic. That's all I want. Don't try and dismiss an issue that is very difficult for people to deal with.

Mavyn wrote:As I said, I've bowed out.

I agree that there are sizing issues. I know all too well that it's tough not being able to find clothes that fit. That's been my life since I was 12. It's coming across that this is the first time they've had the problem, and some are throwing a fit. Sorry if I can't find much sympathy.

I agree that as a rule people should stop whining about things in general (all things! stop it!). However, I still feel a little bummed because of the change. I can't help it. If Woot had always used Anvil, I wouldn't have cried over it or anything. Some stores sell things I can fit into, some don't. That's just the way it goes, and it doesn't bother me at all. It's the "taking away" factor that makes me feel bummed about it. Losing something you used to have makes you grumpy. Grumpgrumpgrump.

And for anyone who feels bad because of the way people are talking about the Anvil shirts: I think when people say the shirts are "huge," it's because they're huge as compared to the old AA shirts, which ran small (they're maybe two sizes bigger than the old shirts). And I think all the "tent" comparisons are because the shirts flare out at the bottom making a tent shape, not because they're tent-sized or anything. ...maybe that helps? I don't think anyone has meant to be mean-spirited when talking about them. I know if I were able to fill out one of the Anvil tees, I'd be very pleased with my T&A situtation.

Narfcake wrote:I think the switch was more incidental than anything. I made a comparison here a couple months ago ...

OH yes, I remember that whole conversation now. I still think they made it LOOK like they did it on purpose so I'll just act like they did :P.

This thread is much feistier than that other one so I am gonna stay out of it. I really didn't want to argue with anyone's personal feelings on the subject since that's not gonna help anyone. I hope my comments didn't come off as negative or mean. They were meant to be nice and/or neutral.

BootsBoots wrote:`snip` I don't think anyone has meant to be mean-spirited when talking about them. I know if I were able to fill out one of the Anvil tees, I'd be very pleased with my T&A situtation.

Well part of the problem is the length. The anvils actually fit me well, but I have a short torso, so the hips are at my hips and not my waist. There are several who are complaining who are my general size but not all limb, the shirt is just as unflattering on them as it is on you.

Though most of the reason I like the anvil is another complaint about them. The main issue I have with the mens AA is the collar, it touches my neck and feel like it is choking me because of that. So yay for collars that rest on the collarbone instead of above them. So.... I'm happy?

I got a medium Lucky at Last. Usually I buy large in all other shirts and it fits fine. For reference I am 5'6 and 150 lbs. These shirts are veryyy generous in sizing. I feel like I'm swimming in this shirt and wish I'd gotten a small. The cut doesn't have the intended affect of being more feminine. Hopefully it shrinks a good deal.

[quote postid="4993576" user="kiwistrawberrybonk"]It's nice that they're making considerations for curvy women, but they've unfortunately cast out some of us "beanpole" women in the process.

As a curvy woman, I think this shirt is even more unflattering for us with curves. As the boxy look just makes us look twice as big.

I see that there are sometimes some American Apparel shirts still being made - and I will be watching for designs I like... and budget allowances .

I just got my first of the new shirts and can now say I prefer the old AA blanks. I was a large in AA and didn’t realize the switch till the new shirt came in. The new one fits me like a men’s medium and I don’t like that. I liked the AA shirts because even if they did show my pudge a little they fit in a flattering way. On top of that I liked how soft the AA shirts where and don’t find that so with anvil. I also didn’t like finding that made in Honduras tag in my shirt. I like that AA is American made I think I will only be buying shirts now if they are left over AA blanks. All in all I say woot needs to switch back to AA if they want more money out of me!

Yep, not thrilled. I was actually excited about the new shirt sizing, but my WL looks so much like a men's shirt, I was all set to send it back as an error until I checked here. I followed the sizing guide, but maybe next time I'll try a WM. I hope that gives me back a flattering waist without ruining the look on top.

elankat wrote:Absurd? Hardly. Yes, people absolutely choose whether or not a passing comment from a stranger about a shirt size running large or small is taken as a personal insult on their body.

Did I advocate anywhere in my comments that people should be cruel or unthoughful? No. However, my statement was far from absurd.

elankat -- Perhaps you said no such thing, but the person initially responded to did imply such a thing.

Specifically:

4khaos wrote:
"Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)
[from the CDC site]"
Anvil is just trying to make the masses* feel better so they don't have to buy 3XL sizes. Or they just can't be bothered to size anything.

Either way, it sucks.

Such a comment implies that people who appreciate the switch are obese, and just interested in sizing that caters to their vanity with a size label. Which is, of course, ignoring the fact that even woot acknowledged that AA sizing runs small.


Honestly, I've been on both sides of the coin. I've been a 'beanpole,' (5'10", 120 pounds) and I've been 'curvy' (still 5'10", but 185 +/-). Even just being tall makes finding clothes that fit correctly a challenge.

The thing is, while being super skinny and struggling to find clothes could be a pain, it was never SHAMEFUL. Even when I would be teased about needing to eat a sandwich, or asked if I was anorexic, or described as 'skeletal,' it was never in a truly disgusted way, because we live in a society where that is promoted from every billboard, movie, runway, etc.

I understand that it is upsetting that the smaller sizing is not available anymore, and I truly do feel bad for those who find that their favorite shirt addiction site hasn't found a way to continue to provide to those clients. (I'd be pissed off, too, were I not thankfully smack in the middle of good fits on both men's and women's shirts now.)

However, complaining about Anvil sizing being 'huge,' and 'tent-like,' is inherently loaded terminology which spits upon a faction of the population who gets spit upon enough. That is without even acknowledging the comments about the shirts being made for the 'obese.'

Let me be completely clear again: I've had incredible weight fluctuations in my life, and have seen what it looks like being a bag of bones and a bundle of flesh.

That being said, being sadcheeks about being called a 'beanpole' and feeling 'too skinny' does not, cannot, and will not ever equate to the systematic discrimination and vile, unwarranted hatred expressed toward women who are less-svelte/chubby/fat. One is an occasional teasing or snide remark, and one is a complete societal jihad against the person and his/her self-esteem.

Okay, I'm done.

margiecakes wrote:elankat -- Perhaps you said no such thing, but the person initially responded to did imply such a thing.

elankat wrote:However, now that I think about it, I believe you (aerc712) and I have gotten into this discussion before and, iirc, I got the distinct impression that you and I wouldn't ever see eye to eye on this subject.

Therefore, I'm bowing out of this discussion.

The argument that people have no right to get upset by comments that include the words "huge," "tent," "overweight," and "obese" is deeply troubling. When those words are used in discussions about the Anvil blanks, in my experience, someone who likes and wears the Anvil blanks cannot help but link those words to themselves. It is an INSTINCTUAL response, nothing that can be controlled.

I know that the intent behind those words may not be malicious or hurtful, but people here need to realize, after all of the discussions that have taken place, that using those words does hurt. People have said that and for some reason, those remarks are tossed aside. It is not easy for some people to openly discuss their body, size, and insecurities. Rather than saying that people have no right to point out that they're upset by comments, people here should respect that it takes a lot for someone to speak up.

To those who have made similar statements and offered supportive words, thank you.

To those who have opted to make a deeply sensitive, personal topic into a fight, please take some time to think about things. Regardless of where someone falls on the spectrum, talking about your body can be very difficult for some people to do. Many people have body image issues and please, please try to be more careful and understanding in regards to this matter in the future.

I'm not going to even attempt to speak for anyone else, but I know for me this whole subject has been pretty upsetting. I revealed that some of these conversations have really hurt me (again, regardless of intent, that's just what happened), I revealed that I've had to seek professional help for body image issues which is so far from easy to do, and things have just spiraled out of control. At times I feel like I've done something wrong for speaking up and attempting to convey the difficult thoughts and emotions that I'm dealing with because of these conversations.

aerc712 wrote:At times I feel like I've done something wrong for speaking up and attempting to convey the difficult thoughts and emotions that I'm dealing with because of these conversations.

I for one, appreciate your eloquence in expressing these thoughts. These are hard conversations, loaded with brain weasels.

Stay cool at each other, y'all.

Oh, my Galaxy! so THATS what happened...

I was so upset when I got my new shirt I emailed them to complain!!! I guess I have my answer now... down to small it is.

@ all involved in language argument.

In the original woot sanctioned women's size thread one of the first comments was someone calling anvil vanity sizes. I essentially yelled at that one for it. However once I got an anvil in what is on average my size - well - anvil does vanity size.

I've worked clothing retail, I have seen the full spectrum of clothing sizes. And I like neither of the 2 attitudes behind the manufacture's thought process. AA seems to have the view that any female over a 12 is a Jabba that can only move by forklift, and anvil cynically feels they will sell more with expanding the clothing widths. Neither attitudes are accurate either, as people vary so widely in size and shape that as long as you don't make things for four legged humans you will have a market.

Much of the spouting off has nothing to do with poor word choices -intentional or not. People learn a manufacturer, and and once they find a brand that designs for their shape (usually referred to by using fruit names) they are loyal to that maker. And a group of people have just lost something they could once rely on, BUT the company that that they ultimately gave money to IS STILL HERE.

And yes those yelling about the loss wont be careful about word choice. They are upset and feel insulted. Their words are not going to go through a PC filter. And why should it be expected? In person someone who does that would be considered smarmy and overly calculating. Chatrooms are well named, people don't put 5 hours of work into their conversations like they should for work or academic papers. Yes that causes more misunderstandings than regular chatting without the nonverbal communication bits, but it is still a spontaneous and nearly instant communication form.

blanked wrote:
And yes those yelling about the loss wont be careful about word choice. They are upset and feel insulted. Their words are not going to go through a PC filter. And why should it be expected? In person someone who does that would be considered smarmy and overly calculating. Chatrooms are well named, people don't put 5 hours of work into their conversations like they should for work or academic papers. Yes that causes more misunderstandings than regular chatting without the nonverbal communication bits, but it is still a spontaneous and nearly instant communication form.

My only goal was to let people know that their words, their descriptions are hurtful. I know that the cut of the shirts is different, I'm not fighting that. My issue is when people see no problem in essentially saying that those who like the Anvil shirts are huge, overweight, and obese. That hurts. I know I could lose a few pounds, it's not easy to do. I'm a few down, partly thanks to folks here making me feel like crud. It's amazing how little you eat when you are upset.

This is a subject that I and many others are sensitive about, as has been stated. I am working on being more more considerate when trying to express my opinion, and I was just hoping that others would do the same. (I know I can be a snarky witch, I'm working on it.)

It is tough sometimes to ignore the instinctual response and put down your emotional, snarky thoughts. However, those words are often the strongest and most likely to hurt someone. To use your own words, people can be insulted but those spur of the moment responses. Asking people to be considerate on a sensitive topic that is linked to significant physical and mental health issues is hardly something that should be dismissed casually.

aerc712 wrote:

While, as you've stated very well and very passionately multiple times, it's super-important to remind people that their words might hurt others and they should compose their thoughts with that in mind, it's also super-important to remember that interpersonal communication, especially without physical cues available, is rather imperfect with strangers from various totally unknown backgrounds/cultures/issues/etc, and that how and what a person reads and interprets is imperfect, too.
It kinda seems, in lurking on all of this, that the conversation has become less and less about the actual sizing and more about very personal reactions to people's complaints about how the new shirts are or are not working for them. There comes a point when, on sensitive topics, a person can take the whole thing too personally and lose the very important ability to distinguish between the actual conversation and the personal reaction to the conversation. Like, when it happens to me (and oh damn does it happen) and I lose the ability to tell the difference between about-me and not-about-me and I'm just raging/in pain/taking every new word as a personal indictment of my assuredly-inherent-terribleness, then I make myself step away from the conversation/thread/whatever. No one should be in pain or keep themselves in a painful place because of bad communication/interpretation on all sides. I'm so sorry that this is such a painful issue for you. Too many of us have gone and are going through the same sorts of issues, and my sympathy and empathy go out to you. I wish you strength in your healing.

ragetears wrote:While, as you've stated very well and very passionately multiple times, it's super-important to remind people that their words might hurt others and they should compose their thoughts with that in mind, it's also super-important to remember that interpersonal communication, especially without physical cues available, is rather imperfect with strangers from various totally unknown backgrounds/cultures/issues/etc, and that how and what a person reads and interprets is imperfect, too.
It kinda seems, in lurking on all of this, that the conversation has become less and less about the actual sizing and more about very personal reactions to people's complaints about how the new shirts are or are not working for them. There comes a point when, on sensitive topics, a person can take the whole thing too personally and lose the very important ability to distinguish between the actual conversation and the personal reaction to the conversation. Like, when it happens to me (and oh damn does it happen) and I lose the ability to tell the difference between about-me and not-about-me and I'm just raging/in pain/taking every new word as a personal indictment of my assuredly-inherent-terribleness, then I make myself step away from the conversation/thread/whatever. No one should be in pain or keep themselves in a painful place because of bad communication/interpretation on all sides. I'm so sorry that this is such a painful issue for you. Too many of us have gone and are going through the same sorts of issues, and my sympathy and empathy go out to you. I wish you strength in your healing.

Throughout all of the discussions on the changes in the women's shirts comments have been made that upset members of the woot community. When people said that, it was dismissed. Some might think it's okay for that to happen, but I don't.

The argument that things are tough to interpret on the internet - when people spell it out that comments are hurtful, then people should wake the heck up. Many times I can just read past the remarks and chalk things up to someone being upset. Other times, I can't. I and others have said that descriptions used in the women's shirt discussions are hurtful, regardless of intent but for some reason, that's not going anywhere. People can't control how they react to situations and what they read. However, someone can take an extra minute or two to pause and think about what they are saying.

My mention of my personal issues was apparently a ridiculous attempt to demonstrate to people here that their words are HURTING people. I'm not just here to whine. I want people to realize that their rants about huge tent-like shirts for overweight folks are upsetting people here. It's just all getting thrown at me, it seems like, since I've kept fighting for this. I just don't understand how anyone can argue that it's okay to dismiss when people speak up and say "this is upsetting me."

aerc712 wrote:

My mention of my personal issues was apparently a ridiculous attempt to demonstrate to people here that their words are HURTING people. I'm not just here to whine. I want people to realize that their rants about huge tent-like shirts for overweight folks are upsetting people here. It's just all getting thrown at me, it seems like, since I've kept fighting for this. I just don't understand how anyone can argue that it's okay to dismiss when people speak up and say "this is upsetting me."

A) Several people who's comments I read came across as nerf herders, I am not defending them, but I will defend those who were railing against the company - did they use words that if people applied inwardly would be harsh? sure. Such is life and communication. In reality it is not common to be an erudite god who never puts a foot wrong.

B) You cannot sanitize a comment for the most sensitive person on the planet, and if accommodations are made for your sensitivities they have to be made for everyones. All that would accomplish is silence, and no communication at all is worse than poorly worded ones.

C) You are demanding accommodation from strangers, yet seem to deny the same for them. Nothing anyone might say to clarify what they meant seems to be enough. That is emotional blackmail, and if I don't accept it from family (alcoholics - 'your driving me to drink') I wont accept it from internet people.

Why do you assume the worst of a statement? Because you have an admitted emotional instability. And that has nothing to do random people's comments - internet or IRL - and it has nothing to do with your weight - past, present or future.

ThunderThighs wrote:I'd like to suggest that we return the focus to Women's shirts, please.

Less personal; more discussion.

Thank you!

THANK YOU!!!!

In the old style women's shirts a Large fitted me perfectly. Now the women's larges are HUGE and not flattering at all & the new women's mediums are too small/tight.

I'd like to order medium and a halfs please.