ressamac


quality posts: 4 Private Messages ressamac

Excellent change. I embrace it.

lkackman


quality posts: 2 Private Messages lkackman

Thank you woot. This makes me want to start entering designs again.

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
CrescentDebris wrote:snip



I agree that the guest editor shouldn't be announced before the end of the derby if at all. I don't think we need the guest editor to choose a range of designs for woot to pick from. Interest has been waning in the derby because you either design to the narrow aesthetic that wins or you go somewhere else, and a bunch of really good artists have gone elsewhere. The only way to bring them back is to get diversity back into the derby and handing part of that diversity back into the hands of woot will be counterproductive.

It's not that I don't think they can pick good work, but they haven't been for their editor's choice in quite a long time. Not to mention that everyone has their own style that they like and good or bad a woot panel (like any panel) is going to have biases. Since the whole point (at least in my opinion) of the guest editor is to get choices free from the same biases, the only way to do it effectively is the have the editor choose.

Yes, there are problems with conflicts of interest, but because there is so much money on the line that's automatically going to dissaude any sort of unethical choosing. At least I would hope it does.

lyonscc


quality posts: 6 Private Messages lyonscc

Been on the Rez the past week or so w/o internet access, but just wanted to chime in that this looks good to me, and it will probably make it more likely I'd work on a design for the week, even if Thursday night was booked up.

neuropsychosocial


quality posts: 171 Private Messages neuropsychosocial
mrwednesday wrote:Yes, there are problems with conflicts of interest, but because there is so much money on the line that's automatically going to dissaude any sort of unethical choosing. At least I would hope it does.

I fear the opposite: with so much money on the table, the stakes are high; after all, the money on the table includes both the $1000 and the commissions from post-first-day sales. To suggest a worst-case scenario that I doubt would happen: with that much money on the table, any cut would be a significant gain to the guest editor, let's say.

I'm sure that someone has done research on how increased compensation contributes to collusion, probably in Economics or Psychology. Anyone familiar with that literature?

RIP A.A. Blanks (Obituary)

mrwednesday


quality posts: 12 Private Messages mrwednesday
neuropsychosocial wrote:I fear the opposite: with so much money on the table, the stakes are high; after all, the money on the table includes both the $1000 and the commissions from post-first-day sales. To suggest a worst-case scenario that I doubt would happen: with that much money on the table, any cut would be a significant gain to the guest editor, let's say.

I'm sure that someone has done research on how increased compensation contributes to collusion, probably in Economics or Psychology. Anyone familiar with that literature?



That automatic distrust of artists and community members is the first thing that springs to mind really speaks volumes about how far woot has let the site fall...

renegadetim


quality posts: 12 Private Messages renegadetim
kevlar51 wrote:Their "Gut"

They're going to read Moneyball and disregard all of its lessons :-P



Maybe they've already read it and are just inspired by what the current A's are doing right now(18-4 in the last 22 games). They think they're still the small market underdogs(woot) when they're actually the yankees(amazon).

Although I'm not sure if I'll like this new format, I'm 99% positive it would've garnered "Rotation" a print, so maybe, it won't be that bad. Hopefully we get more prints like that to print, opposed to just random favorites/obscure entries.

kevlar51


quality posts: 46 Private Messages kevlar51
renegadetim wrote:
Although I'm not sure if I'll like this new format, I'm 99% positive it would've garnered "Rotation" a print, so maybe, it won't be that bad. Hopefully we get more prints like that to print, opposed to just random favorites/obscure entries.



That would have been a nice suprise. I'm still anxious to see what they come up with.

I'm a bit disappointed I didn't come up with something worth entering. The design I did put together didn't seem good enough to get 1st and I didn't feel like woot or Bass would like it either, so I opted not to enter. I hope that was a one time thing for me and I don't go through that analysis every week.

Dragonfancy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Dragonfancy

I like having Guests to choose designs- particularly if they are contributing artists to the site

xvszero


quality posts: 0 Private Messages xvszero

Considering that the shirts that I think are the best rarely make the top 3, I'm in. Of course, this could still end up happening, but now at least there are 3 DIFFERENT ways shirts are chosen.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
kevlar51 wrote:The design I did put together didn't seem good enough to get 1st and I didn't feel like woot or Bass would like it either, so I opted not to enter.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

move along

aerc712


quality posts: 4 Private Messages aerc712
mrwednesday wrote:good points were here



While I understand why Woot would want to name the guest editor for the first revised derby, I don't think it should continue. I think that woot demonstrated that they will be careful with who is given a guest editor spot (starting by selecting a respected artist in this community is a great first move) and from this point forward, I think it would be best if it was anonymous. Or if it was revealed after the fact. That way artists aren't designing with a certain person in mind and also, whoever the guest editor is doesn't have to deal with getting messages about which design to pick. I don't know if that's going on, but all it takes is one person to get that ball rolling.

One point to remember with all of these changes is that all of the decisions made regarding derby winners and what prints are subjective. Not everyone agrees on what is a good design. What one person loves, another may hate. That's just how things are. I do think that having three different ways of determining the derby winners does provide an opportunity for a much greater variety of designs to print. This system is one of the best ways of combating the issue of certain designs always winning the derby.

As for the bribery/kickback discussion in regards to the guest editor - I think that folks should have a little more faith in people. Woot is going to be careful to pick someone that will not only have a good eye, but also someone who is a respected member of the woot community. If people continue to doubt the legitimacy of a guest editor's pick, then that part can be anonymous. But, overall, I want to believe that most people are good and that anyone given a guest editor spot will be level headed enough to not fall for certain shenanigans.

renegadetim


quality posts: 12 Private Messages renegadetim
kevlar51 wrote:I'm a bit disappointed I didn't come up with something worth entering. The design I did put together didn't seem good enough to get 1st and I didn't feel like woot or Bass would like it either, so I opted not to enter. I hope that was a one time thing for me and I don't go through that analysis every week.



This is what I feared this new format would cause. How often do people think they're going to get 1st with a submission?

Kevlar, I and many others like most your ideas. While it might not print here, there is still EC's and possible side sales it could get put into... plus maybe it would cause you to create something that would eventually get onto one of the other options of sites now. Please don't start not entering because of these reasons!(Even though you said it was probably a one time thing)

kevlar51


quality posts: 46 Private Messages kevlar51
renegadetim wrote:This is what I feared this new format would cause. How often do people think they're going to get 1st with a submission?

Kevlar, I and many others like most your ideas. While it might not print here, there is still EC's and possible side sales it could get put into... plus maybe it would cause you to create something that would eventually get onto one of the other options of sites now. Please don't start not entering because of these reasons!(Even though you said it was probably a one time thing)



Thanks Tim--much appreciated

I wouldn't worry too much about my participation level. Normally I'm able to work on Thursday night and get something up there on Friday at Derby start. That wasn't really the case this past week so it changed my perspective on things. This week should be back to normal.

TiraNomChu


quality posts: 5 Private Messages TiraNomChu

I think the guest editor is going to be the most problematic part.

I'd say let the first two be vote-dependent, let the third be editor selected. By allowing one person (whether it be a respected guest editor or a random individual) select a shirt to print, it gives a bit too much power to one person's opinion.

Besides, as much as I'd love to say that the community thrives here at Woot!, the reality will probably end up being the same people picking the third shirt... on a rotating basis, of course. But if that was the case, why don't you just let their votes weigh more in general and combine with the editors or something?

TiraNomChu


quality posts: 5 Private Messages TiraNomChu

Though Woot may select reputable artists/contributors/community members, there's not a huge pool of people they might really get to know and trust, and that's why I think that selection might dwindle and die (or at least get stagnant fast) sooner rather than later.

aerc712 wrote:While I understand why Woot would want to name the guest editor for the first revised derby, I don't think it should continue. I think that woot demonstrated that they will be careful with who is given a guest editor spot (starting by selecting a respected artist in this community is a great first move) and from this point forward, I think it would be best if it was anonymous. Or if it was revealed after the fact. That way artists aren't designing with a certain person in mind and also, whoever the guest editor is doesn't have to deal with getting messages about which design to pick. I don't know if that's going on, but all it takes is one person to get that ball rolling.

One point to remember with all of these changes is that all of the decisions made regarding derby winners and what prints are subjective. Not everyone agrees on what is a good design. What one person loves, another may hate. That's just how things are. I do think that having three different ways of determining the derby winners does provide an opportunity for a much greater variety of designs to print. This system is one of the best ways of combating the issue of certain designs always winning the derby.

As for the bribery/kickback discussion in regards to the guest editor - I think that folks should have a little more faith in people. Woot is going to be careful to pick someone that will not only have a good eye, but also someone who is a respected member of the woot community. If people continue to doubt the legitimacy of a guest editor's pick, then that part can be anonymous. But, overall, I want to believe that most people are good and that anyone given a guest editor spot will be level headed enough to not fall for certain shenanigans.

facemeetpavement


quality posts: 0 Private Messages facemeetpavement

there needs to be something on the derby page once the derby is over to indicate who the winners were. it used to obviously be the top 3 voted, but now that its not you can't go to an old derby and see who won. today (sunday) if i didn't go to woot.com yesterday (saturday) i'd never know who you picked.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
facemeetpavement wrote:there needs to be something on the derby page once the derby is over to indicate who the winners were. it used to obviously be the top 3 voted, but now that its not you can't go to an old derby and see who won. today (sunday) if i didn't go to woot.com yesterday (saturday) i'd never know who you picked.




This page lists every print at Woot all the way back to the first one

move along

DianaSprinkle


quality posts: 117 Private Messages DianaSprinkle
facemeetpavement wrote:there needs to be something on the derby page once the derby is over to indicate who the winners were. it used to obviously be the top 3 voted, but now that its not you can't go to an old derby and see who won. today (sunday) if i didn't go to woot.com yesterday (saturday) i'd never know who you picked.



This is a really good suggestion! I wish woot had a "Email me if this design prints" option or at least some sort of optional link back to the sales page of winning designs from the derby pages.

A big flashing GIFs that says "This Design Is For Sale" or something.

It'd be nice too, in the same fashion, if there was a button for reckoned shirts that said "email me when is design is available again" since woot has been doing a ton of side sales recently.

JJrodny


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JJrodny

My two cents:

By making these changes, the names of the prizes should be different. "Second Place" is no longer second place. It's now "Art Directors' Choice". Same for "Third Place" which should just be called "Guest's Choice"

Using "Second" and "Third" is not being True to the Woot Derby. I would suggest we keep the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place majority voting from before, then on the Woot Plus you can add on the shirts that your Art Directors and Guest Judges liked the most.

Don't take away what makes Woot Derby great. And don't use Sham names to placate the masses. Call it what it really is.

ganome


quality posts: 3 Private Messages ganome
JJrodny wrote:My two cents:

By making these changes, the names of the prizes should be different. "Second Place" is no longer second place. It's now "Art Directors' Choice". Same for "Third Place" which should just be called "Guest's Choice"

Using "Second" and "Third" is not being True to the Woot Derby. I would suggest we keep the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place majority voting from before, then on the Woot Plus you can add on the shirts that your Art Directors and Guest Judges liked the most.

Don't take away what makes Woot Derby great. And don't use Sham names to placate the masses. Call it what it really is.


this, also after seeing the gold derby here is my prediction for all derbies till they change the rules IF they do that is.

First place: actually nice design
"Second" place: POP CULTURE REFERENCE TO MAKE MORE MONEY
"Third" place: meh design and or pop culture

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
JJrodny wrote:My two cents:

By making these changes, the names of the prizes should be different. "Second Place" is no longer second place. It's now "Art Directors' Choice". Same for "Third Place" which should just be called "Guest's Choice"

Using "Second" and "Third" is not being True to the Woot Derby. I would suggest we keep the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place majority voting from before, then on the Woot Plus you can add on the shirts that your Art Directors and Guest Judges liked the most.

Don't take away what makes Woot Derby great. And don't use Sham names to placate the masses. Call it what it really is.

All that requires coding work, new "badge" art, change orders, etc. As this is still an "experiment" don't expect any change for a bit.

move along

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
DianaSprinkle wrote:This is a really good suggestion! I wish woot had a "Email me if this design prints" option or at least some sort of optional link back to the sales page of winning designs from the derby pages.

A big flashing GIFs that says "This Design Is For Sale" or something.

It'd be nice too, in the same fashion, if there was a button for reckoned shirts that said "email me when is design is available again" since woot has been doing a ton of side sales recently.



Submit that to the beta feedback.

My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

Draug


quality posts: 69 Private Messages Draug

Oh I do like this. ^__^ Now we can't have 1st, 2nd, and/or 3rd place all taken by one artist (unless said artist is utterly brilliant enough for all three places at once).

The enemy's gate is down.
Writers are people too! (Albeit strange ones.)
Save Poe! Reckon Nevermore! Or he'll be head-locked forevermore!

devdave


quality posts: 0 Private Messages devdave
Draug wrote:Oh I do like this. ^__^ Now we can't have 1st, 2nd, and/or 3rd place all taken by one artist (unless said artist is utterly brilliant enough for all three places at once).



I for one love the change, and would hope that it brings back some of the original really great artists who used to frequent the derby but dwindled away out of frustration. And with them a lot of voters (like me) who missed seeing their designs!

facemeetpavement


quality posts: 0 Private Messages facemeetpavement
Mavyn wrote:Submit that to the beta feedback.



aha, i assumed this "discussion" was the feedback. anyone have a link?

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
artulo wrote:Wow. This looks familiar. I honestly never thought I would see these changes made here, even if they might only be temporary.

Well played, shirt.woot. Good luck on sales.

Cheers,

-art



This sounds familiar to you? At what point would you have heard this? I certainly don't recall ANYTHING like this ever being discussed in these forums.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU

I might add, however, that given the nature of this shakeup, and knowing that many artists have left the site for greener pastures (or simply stopped designing, but that could easily be the same thing), it would behoove the experiment to select some super themes. Things that aren't too hard, but let the imagination run wild. Possibly redux a derby or two that you loved the work from, but hated what won, in hopes that you'll strike a similar nerve with the artists and be able to immediately rectify the prints?

Point being: keep with the experiment long enough for artists to get back into the swing of things, and give them incentive to do so in the form of inspiring derbies, or else you'll never really know how things pan out.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
AdderXYU wrote:This sounds familiar to you? At what point would you have heard this? I certainly don't recall ANYTHING like this ever being discussed in these forums.

Those posts were all deleted, they didn't happen, memory is unreliable.

AdderXYU wrote:I might add, however, that given the nature of this shakeup, and knowing that many artists have left the site for greener pastures (or simply stopped designing, but that could easily be the same thing), it would behoove the experiment to select some super themes. Things that aren't too hard, but let the imagination run wild. Possibly redux a derby or two that you loved the work from, but hated what won, in hopes that you'll strike a similar nerve with the artists and be able to immediately rectify the prints?

Point being: keep with the experiment long enough for artists to get back into the swing of things, and give them incentive to do so in the form of inspiring derbies, or else you'll never really know how things pan out.

One element is missing. It's the same reason Universities don't don't like to hire their grad students into faculty positions. Stagnation. You yourself complained of the HMs being "just the fog, so why bother." Editors will pick what they always pick, so the guest editor is crucial to cultivating fresh derby entries.

move along

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
facemeetpavement wrote:aha, i assumed this "discussion" was the feedback. anyone have a link?



This is a discussion, but submitting feedback gets it to more people than just those reading the forum. There's a button up on the right next to Hi, UserName (Sign Out) to provide feedback. It doesn't work from all browsers, or didn't as of last week.

My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
j5 wrote:One element is missing. It's the same reason Universities don't don't like to hire their grad students into faculty positions. Stagnation. You yourself complained of the HMs being "just the fog, so why bother." Editors will pick what they always pick, so the guest editor is crucial to cultivating fresh derby entries.



imo since the guest editor has been mostly some1 who stuck around, it's been some1 who is part of the ongoing culture, and the risk of stagnation is still present. i have hope for drakxxx, we'll see.

AdderXYU wrote:Point being: keep with the experiment long enough for artists to get back into the swing of things, and give them incentive to do so in the form of inspiring derbies, or else you'll never really know how things pan out.



i never thought i'd say this, but i agree with adder. i've drawn (heh) a complete blank with respect to the themes so far during this experiment.

i'd like to suggest something of an extended experiment: give the guest editor slot to the same "outsider" 3-4 weeks in a row, to allow the guest editor concept to develop. since adder is apparently back, i nominate him for the first "multi-week outsider" slot.

j5


quality posts: 63 Private Messages j5
no1 wrote:imo since the guest editor has been mostly some1 who stuck around, it's been some1 who is part of the ongoing culture, and the risk of stagnation is still present. i have hope for drakxxx, we'll see.

Yes, that was the crux of my comment. I should have been more clear.

no1 wrote:i never thought i'd say this, but i agree with adder. i've drawn (heh) a complete blank with respect to the themes so far during this experiment.

Might I suggest, a panda themed design?

no1 wrote:i'd like to suggest something of an extended experiment: give the guest editor slot to the same "outsider" 3-4 weeks in a row, to allow the guest editor concept to develop. since adder is apparently back, i nominate him for the first "multi-week outsider" slot.

Not sure about this. I like the rotational aspect since it allows a chance for people with different tastes to "curate" designs each week. Let Adder or Wednesday pick some dailies.

move along

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
j5 wrote:Not sure about this. I like the rotational aspect since it allows a chance for people with different tastes to "curate" designs each week. Let Adder or Wednesday pick some dailies.



for them to pick dailies they'd have to see what's submitted to woot or be a curator. either way, it'd take enough time that i think it wouldn't be appropriate for an unpaid volunteer to do it. picking one from the derby is doable for a volunteer who's already watching the derby anyway. as far as rotation goes, sure, after some more artists come back. but to get the "guest editor" thing off the ground, imo there aren't enough malcontents who are familiar enough with the derby to do a decent job, to rotate that often. plus i think adder may be famous enough to pull in some more diverse artists.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
j5 wrote:One element is missing. It's the same reason Universities don't don't like to hire their grad students into faculty positions. Stagnation. You yourself complained of the HMs being "just the fog, so why bother." Editors will pick what they always pick, so the guest editor is crucial to cultivating fresh derby entries.



The problem being that once upon a time, ECs were "whatever". There were weeks of absolute shite, for sure (ironically the EC week right before Ramy's ascent was uncharacteristically terrible), but for a long while, there was a chance of something truly different coming across the table. I don't know what's been up for the last few renditions of the doubletake, but I admit that part of what made me stop caring what got printed ever is that the editors DID start choosing worse work, the same generic trash that the voters would choose. Especially on doubletakes where talented designers who hadn't won in the entire span between doubletakes and had prodigious amounts of HMs would still not print, but "designers" who regularly got printed with weak work would get a print spot instead.

Still, the editors are automatically a shake-up in that they are not the voters. Even if they are picking the same thing (and for at least two of the guest editors, I have all the faith in the world that they picked the same thing), there is the -chance-. That small chance is enough to make it better. A complete purge of editors for fresh faced idealist artists and critics with a strong sense of intellectual property rights would be even better yet. But until then, if the voters are continually voting for retrogressive design which is dangerous for the artistic community on the whole, I approve any checks and balances that might lead to a fairer selection process.

Lest we forget, when the idea of taking a bit more editorial influence into the derby winners was first brought up by unknown users, presumably with incredibly dashing good looks, things were higher on the hill. It was when the editors, while imperfect, were continually selecting at least different things for dailies, and regularly honoring excellent work or artists in EC weeks. As time has gone on, that separation of integrity has deteriorated, but then, so too has the wooter base. At this late period, it might be too little too late to regain a modicum of quality control, or it might be a method of quashing the remaining outside vote that injects the slight bit of intrigue and rare quality derby print into the woot print schedule. It's hard to say. But the potential exists for great things as compared to the old guard. After all, just because you teach a student doesn't mean they become you. The young blood might inject life into your faculty simply through having a more contemporary worldview.

no1 wrote:for them to pick dailies they'd have to see what's submitted to woot or be a curator. either way, it'd take enough time that i think it wouldn't be appropriate for an unpaid volunteer to do it. picking one from the derby is doable for a volunteer who's already watching the derby anyway. as far as rotation goes, sure, after some more artists come back. but to get the "guest editor" thing off the ground, imo there aren't enough malcontents who are familiar enough with the derby to do a decent job, to rotate that often. plus i think adder may be famous enough to pull in some more diverse artists.



The thing with non-rotational guest editors is that then you get the pander vote in full force. Rats and cats and, at least in one case, new users with familiarly shiny and dead-eyed styles and anime-sounding names. The difficulty is that yes, most of the most active people here are either longtimers who were here before shirt and are only peripherally interested in art, or the most social-clubby aspects of the site who are going to clearly be influenced by loyalties just like picking prom queens. As for their promised "outside" influences, well, we all remember Wil Wheaton's beautifully rendered daily contribution, or the guest editor weeks that were inevitably populated by nerditude so strong not even woot regulars would buy. And by "we all," I guess I mean "me," because regulars around here forget years of design theft every time a new design theft happens, let alone obscure old tees.

But that almost makes it all the more important to have a weekly, secret guest editor, and not monthly residences. Especially if this is an "experiment". It's best to run the gamut, see who the buyers and community (who am I kidding, just the buyers) respond to best, who is unbiased as possible, etc etc. Also, let's be honest, if someone is guest editor for a month, and there's a fairly weak selection of designs and themes, they might just pick the same artist every week simply for being the least bad every time.

And honored though I am that you'd suggest it, I wouldn't have the power to bring better names in. No one really would. The artists would need to be watching woot regularly (doubtful) to know the person was the editor, they'd need to be inspired by the theme enough to create something good, and even if an influential guest editor could sway them into entry, and it did bring in droves, what motivation would there be? The editor would pick one of them, the others would go on to HMs with no eventual EC print (gotta keep the bunnies up!) and when the editor's run was over the derby would once again thin out of talent. What the average wooter may not realize is how many top tier shirt designers have spent a month or two here and then simply left for not being appreciated, either by staff or voters. There would need to already be a trend of regular derby prints going to top-tier work before we reliably saw the top-tier work return.

It would also probably require a change from Anvil blanks, but that's another discussion entirely.

And yes, daily selection is a whole different animal as well, and even at their weakest, I support 100% keeping the balance of dailies to derbies about as they are right now. If this move is about art and artist diversity, killing a daily off will only harm that (dailies can come from any artist on any topic, after all).

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
AdderXYU wrote:The thing with non-rotational guest editors is that then you get the pander vote in full force.



the reason why i suggested you be a g.e. for 3 weeks is that when i thought of how to pander to you, i had no clue how to do it easily. i limited it to 4 b/c i think it could take at least that long b4 the artist community could puzzle that out.

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
no1 wrote:the reason why i suggested you be a g.e. for 3 weeks is that when i thought of how to pander to you, i had no clue how to do it easily. i limited it to 4 b/c i think it could take at least that long b4 the artist community could puzzle that out.



*tongue firmly in cheek*

Conspire with Edgar.



My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

facemeetpavement


quality posts: 0 Private Messages facemeetpavement
Mavyn wrote:This is a discussion, but submitting feedback gets it to more people than just those reading the forum. There's a button up on the right next to Hi, UserName (Sign Out) to provide feedback. It doesn't work from all browsers, or didn't as of last week.


yes i did finally notice that on my own, but that button is for the new design of the whole website. its not for the new derby rules.

StarBob


quality posts: 14 Private Messages StarBob

The shirts I vote for never win. Maybe this will give me a chance to get the good ones.

kenney9226


quality posts: 6 Private Messages kenney9226

My chances of actually winning have increased dramatically with this announcement.

I hope I can make an entry in the future, if my silly job will stop keeping me busy!

Hugs and kisses,

Kenny

meh3884


quality posts: 25 Private Messages meh3884

Surprisingly, I'm down with these changes. Absolutely sucks that the new shirts don't fit me so I don't watch s.w. anymore.

Have fun nonetheless. Will be nice to see some *ahem* different talented artists getting the nod each week.

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