ochopika


quality posts: 28 Private Messages ochopika

Staff

BootsBoots wrote:Anyway... I don't think it really matters if you drew the image just by looking at a reference or not. Whether you're live tracing, sketching over, or drawing something completely freehand, if it ends up looking exactly like your reference image, then you've copied someone else's work. It's not yours to use.



Yea... now that I see the evidence it is tough for me to defend your drawing as original, even if it is a good design. It's better to reference many different images and make your design based on your observations. Copying one image in any form isn't the same as "using a reference" in art.

wottwin


quality posts: 2 Private Messages wottwin
pantilemon wrote:Hey Wooters! I think I'm needing some help here. What do you guys think I'm doing wrong on my designs? This is my 6'th derby and I'm not getting any better it would seem, so I think its time for some 'constructive criticism' or hate mail... Whatevs, I'm not picky.



In my observation, line-drawings like this without any shading don't seem to do well in the derbies. As much of a pain as half-toning seems to be, wooters seem to appreciate it. Shading makes a design pop and look more professional than a one-color fill. Hope that helps!

lloyd2002


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lloyd2002
Re: The One Eyewasher



Tough luck there.

You've GMV again, and I wouldn't worry about the complainers - maybe nobody's noticed, but the small figure they are complaining about is completely covered in flames. Maybe they should spend more energy on designs that have silhouettes from Jurassic Park or other obvious sources, than half a figure shrouded in flames.

You could take a picture of me with one arm up in the air and superimpose that graphic over me at that resolution.

Good luck.

Drakxxx


quality posts: 16 Private Messages Drakxxx
Re: The One Eyewasher



You best bet is to always keep it original. Theres been a lot of issues with shirts getting pulled down after they go on sale and all sorts of other legal stuff on here.


deboraho


quality posts: 0 Private Messages deboraho

I guess everyone went to sleep.... \crickets/ !

quitstalin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages quitstalin
Re: Dammit, Jim!



Few people know that I'm actually the inventor of the "I'm a doctor, not a X" meme, back in the early 90's

*Also available in "PC" versions

quitstalin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages quitstalin
Re: Dammit, Jim!



I can remember when I graduated from medical school; top of my class. Everyone told me my hard work had pretty much secured my future. I had a skill and it was in demand. I was helping people who needed it the most and people looked up to me. When did that change? Now I find myself telling people I'm "just a doctor." And they look down on me like that isn't good enough anymore, like I gotta be a bricklayer, an escalator, even a moon shuttle operator too; they got old Doc McCoy to push around!

lyonscc


quality posts: 6 Private Messages lyonscc
ochopika wrote:The rejectionator can be a fickle beast.


Aye, that it can...

BootsBoots wrote:Anyway... I don't think it really matters if you drew the image just by looking at a reference or not. Whether you're live tracing, sketching over, or drawing something completely freehand, if it ends up looking exactly like your reference image, then you've copied someone else's work. It's not yours to use.



Understood - I really didn't (and still don't) think it looked like the reference image, aside from the pose, especially after adding in the other design elements. I wasn't trying to duplicate the reference, just the general pose of a man reaching up with one arm, holding a squeegee. When viewed at such a small resolution, it looks much closer than it did before adding all the gradients, shadows, fire, etc.

lloyd2002 wrote:Tough luck there.

You've GMV again, and I wouldn't worry about the complainers - maybe nobody's noticed, but the small figure they are complaining about is completely covered in flames. Maybe they should spend more energy on designs that have silhouettes from Jurassic Park or other obvious sources, than half a figure shrouded in flames.

You could take a picture of me with one arm up in the air and superimpose that graphic over me at that resolution.

Good luck.



Thanks. I agree with your last point, especially. (Well, at least if you're an adult of medium build).

Drakxxx wrote:You best bet is to always keep it original. Theres been a lot of issues with shirts getting pulled down after they go on sale and all sorts of other legal stuff on here.



That really gets to the heart of the question I asked, way above.

At what point is it "keeping it original" if you need to see a reference? I don't have a tablet, and I have a hard time just "drawing something" without seeing some examples of it. Once I see something, though, I can do a decent job of mocking up a new version of it.

At what point is this "copying" vs. "keeping it original"?

I mean, we have entire designs in recent history comprised almost completely of as-is clip art, and other designs with obvious traces, and I see no complaints about those. But here, I mimicked the posture of a figure - with some significant differences in the details - and some folks act as if it's a crime.

What am I missing here?

pantilemon


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pantilemon
wottwin wrote:In my observation, line-drawings like this without any shading don't seem to do well in the derbies. As much of a pain as half-toning seems to be, wooters seem to appreciate it. Shading makes a design pop and look more professional than a one-color fill. Hope that helps!



It does help, thank you. I've done a couple more shaded designs, but I wanted to make this one feel like those old school Saturday morning cartoons. I do really need to work on figuring out the halftones better though. Thank you for taking the time to leave me some advice!

bluetuba


quality posts: 58 Private Messages bluetuba
lyonscc wrote:Once I see something, though, I can do a decent job of mocking up a new version of it.

At what point is this "copying" vs. "keeping it original"?



Yeah, you did a *really* good job of copying it. The image above is something I've seen happen plenty of times with other artists who trace photos and it's pretty damning evidence. People are getting on your case because ALOT of your entries look like photos. You arguing about the line between stealing and not stealing rubs alot of people the wrong way. You are an artist right? You can draw something without making it look identical to your reference, and no I don't just mean making his arm a little longer or removing the clipboard he was holding.

lyonscc wrote:I mean, we have entire designs in recent history comprised almost completely of as-is clip art



Is that clip-art? Alot of his work looks like spacy silhouettes of things and I'll betcha he draws them himself. Kharmazero has never been rejected for using clip art, but you have.

If you've detected photo tracing and clip art in other people's entries feel free to call them out on it and provide the evidence. They should all be rejected.

"You can't just dress a Minion like Spock, and add a caption that says "Logical Me". There's a prison for people like that. Below my house."

manikx66


quality posts: 2 Private Messages manikx66

haha very nice

manikx66


quality posts: 2 Private Messages manikx66

i like this buy why is it im seeing so many zelda pieces all of a sudden??

collinvh


quality posts: 63 Private Messages collinvh
Re: The One Eyewasher



I think woot says it best (from the daily submission page)

"Reference Images

(check box) Yes, this design makes use of clip art, photos, traced photos or hand-drawn renditions of existing images

(check box) No, this design does NOT make use of clip art, photos, traced photos or hand-drawn renditions of existing images

if yes, we need direct links to each image source. we must be able to obtain the commercial rights to all images, so even if you think they're ok, we need to be certain."

If "yes", not for a derby entry. If "no" it is good to go.

numia123


quality posts: 2 Private Messages numia123
Re: The Grim Reaper



Little late getting in, but here it is!
What could be worse than being sent to reap the soul of a helpless defenseless kitten!

lyonscc


quality posts: 6 Private Messages lyonscc
bluetuba wrote:Yeah, you did a *really* good job of copying it. The image above is something I've seen happen plenty of times with other artists who trace photos and it's pretty damning evidence. People are getting on your case because ALOT of your entries look like photos. You arguing about the line between stealing and not stealing rubs alot of people the wrong way. You are an artist right? You can draw something without making it look identical to your reference, and no I don't just mean making his arm a little longer or removing the clipboard he was holding.


Actually, the fit between the two isn't all that great. I used the brush tool when trying to draw it, and I wasn't all that concerned about details, beyond the shape.

I didn't know the hand would be blurred out, but I had drawn a towel for him in his left hand (more like a blob) and had it placed lower (like it was coming out of his pocket).

I also wanted him to look like he was stretching out more, to reach, so I drew the other limbs differently, as well.

On top of that, I didn't use any of the internal detail, just an outline (because I wasn't trying to make an exact copy, just a man reaching up with a squeegee). I was truly asking a philosophical question (looking for a 'rule of thumb') as to what is considered "original" - because that is a term that gets bandied about here, and seems to mean different things to different people. I'm not trying to "argue about the line between stealing and not stealing" - I am truly trying to understand how we define "original" so that I don't "rub people the wrong way". I am probably being naive, I realize, because I let people use my photos, music, and designs for whatever they want to use them for (like the designs I gave to theonering.net - a great place to link for LotR/Hobbit info, BtW - for SD Comic Con and for DragonCon). This is far, far more about the fun of designing and the challenge of a short timeline than it is about money. But it's not fun to upset folks, or be seen as a "rulebreaker" - which is why I've been asking questions.

As for using photos - I used some of my own photos as models (which should be fair game, since I took them) - particularly the shot of the Statue of Liberty. And in that case, I used it to get the different shaded areas, and then crosshatched them w/ brushes I had created. I fail to see how that is "stealing" or "cheating" or putting photos in the design. A couple of my other designs were rejected because my hatches were vector brushes, not hand-drawn (I guess), that I used as fills.

As for being an "artist", I haven't had an art class since 7th grade (30 years ago), but I've been a musician forever. By trade I am an engineer, and I've had to take on graphic design roles in my work and for some philanthropic organizations I belong to. My wife has a degree in design, so I have personal copies of Illustrator and Photoshop, which I've self-taught for the past couple of years. So I do have to either see something to draw it, electronically (though I can physically draw, so I just need to get a tablet and figure out how to use it).

As an engineer, though, I have had to learn all sorts of things about math, programming and efficiency, so I've been able to build some filters, brushes and symbols to speed up the process, and improve my designs.

The next thing I want to do is learn more how to draw cartoons, but I'm leaving for Tanzania this week for a couple of weeks (to help teach microfinance and English as part of a philanthropic trip sponsored by my employer), so I've been holding off on learning that until later this year.

A few weeks ago, I learned out how to make some more realistic fire effects and how to somewhat quickly (in 6-8 hours) convert them from raster to vector graphics, so that's been my focus recently.

bluetuba wrote:Is that clip-art? Alot of his work looks like spacy silhouettes of things and I'll betcha he draws them himself. Kharmazero has never been rejected for using clip art, but you have.

If you've detected photo tracing and clip art in other people's entries feel free to call them out on it and provide the evidence. They should all be rejected.



The kharmazero design has dozens of models from allshilhouettes.com, including this pack and this pack, along with African aminal and landmark packs of silhouettes.

It wasn't until I used the one you linked to that I even knew that the use of clipart could result in rejection.

As for calling others out for the use of clipart, that tends to fall into the realm of creating conflict, which isn't really why I do this. It would be nice, though, to have the same standards apply to everyone. Someone in the kharmazero thread pointed out the use of stock illustrations and the powers-that-be didn't seem to care, so why create more waves in that thread?

fossilgirl1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fossilgirl1
Re: Laboratory Assistant



Love, Love, Love! My favorite this derby! GMV

flattopfrank


quality posts: 3 Private Messages flattopfrank
fossilgirl1 wrote:Love, Love, Love! My favorite this derby! GMV



Thanks !!! I really appreciate you enthusiasm and your vote !!

lyonscc


quality posts: 6 Private Messages lyonscc
Re: Laboratory Assistant



Ha! Loved that movie. Nice send-up of it...

greengooop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages greengooop
Re: Legend of the Lawn



OOooo buy now please :D

kevlar51


quality posts: 47 Private Messages kevlar51
oakenspirit wrote:So, I would love some advice.
I have been posting shirt ideas for a few months now with little to slight success. I know the competition is fierce and that many of my ideas/art will lose by default when put next to some of the other designs but I am hoping to improve each week. (I'm truthfully pretty new to photoshop as I am more of an oldschool artist).

So, point being... this shirt, I was decently proud of AND I felt fit the Woot demographic... yet, I have 2 votes... 2. I know its likely too late to update and improve it but is there anything anyone would recommend about my style/format that may help in future derbies?

Hope this is coming across relatively nonentitled sounding...



What's your method when approaching photoshop? Do you draw by hand, then scan and color from there? Or do you use a tablet? Work with what you're most comfortable with for now.

As for the style, I think scaling back on the halftones will help; though everyone goes through a phase of over-halftoning before they learn how to cut it down. But they're really not crucial to a good design. It helps to look at your work during the process and ask yourself "is this element necessary?" If the answer is "no," then take it out.

When it comes to "cute" designs, try to steer clear of "tear-jerker." Honestly, "Geek" trumps "cute" here most times anyway. Only a couple artists here have really managed to pull off cute designs successfully (but admittedly, they have been very successful with it).

And submission time still matters if you're going for votes--it's easy to get lost in the shuffle when you sub mid week, in my opinion.

Bottom line is keep it up. As people get to know you and your work you'll build a nice following of good people who really appreciate your stuff You're definitely on the right track by constantly striving to improve!

plainyoghurt


quality posts: 0 Private Messages plainyoghurt
Re: Chicken Pizza Promotion Mascot



this isn't that much of an exaggeration, I saw someone doing this on my way home from work. I put in the rain to add insult to injury.

theLordsarmy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theLordsarmy
harzack wrote:Are you sure? I've seen Mario in many different roles that I think is hard to remember the last time anyone saw him working as a plumber: D
Anyway, it's a winning design.



true true and true

GSimmons01


quality posts: 3 Private Messages GSimmons01
lloyd2002 wrote:Is it bad that this shirt made me think of this?



If it weren't for your comment, I may not have understood that this was meant to be a therapist office... I no longer see one word. I have to fix that

chachachino


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chachachino

I've watched a few paranormal shows, and I never wanted to trade places with these guys walking around haunted places in the dark. Maybe they're courageous, maybe just foolish. Paranormal investigator has to be the worst job out there. --Or maybe paranormal investigator camera man.

Re: Paranormal Investigator

chachachino


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chachachino
Re: An Assistant



clippy! haha this is pretty good. no one more hated than clippy. and all he wants to do is help.

chachachino


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chachachino
Re: Stay away!



Is this one a paranormal investigator too? Looks like you beat me to it. I have to agree: Worst Job EVER.

chachachino


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chachachino
Re: Toadstool Construction



sweet! i love the colors and the concept. nice detail hanging the clouds by string.

chachachino


quality posts: 0 Private Messages chachachino
Re: I Quit!



clever design!

tomspc


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tomspc
Re: The One Eyewasher



You guys sure are dishing out a lot of crap about this design. Everyone loved it until it was rejected and instead of supporting your fellow artist you're beating him senseless. Let's take a look at all of the designs, a lot of them are clearly traced or clip art yet no one says anything and they never get rejected. Or even worse, using the same characters week after week just posed in a different way on the shirt.

What's the point of this? We all know this design is never going to print because he is clearly not part of the clique and he neglected to put a rainbow or some other cutesie crap in his design. Why beat him up when he never had a chance to begin with.

dwillars


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dwillars
gizmocbk wrote:"A Spoonful of..." references the song, A Spoonful of Sugar, from Mary Poppins (as silhouetted).

"...Pea Soup" is a reference to The Exorcist (represented by the house - see the movie poster below).



Now I get it... Thanks!!!

ArdillaCiega


quality posts: 7 Private Messages ArdillaCiega
lyonscc wrote:I have a copy of that shirt, too, and got lots of great comments on it at GenCon.



What shirt are you referring to?

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

Mavyn


quality posts: 22 Private Messages Mavyn
Re: Have You Tried Turning it Off and On Again?



Text is not incidental. Basic rule--if the design still makes sense if the text is removed or changed, you're good. If the design fails to make sense or qualify for the derby without the text, not so good.

My speech is not parsing. I am speaking in ellipsis.

writermist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages writermist
Re: Paranormal Investigator



Oh I love how the wallpaper is peeling off. The style of this is just gorgeous. ^^

dwillars


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dwillars

Anyone with a stinky kid loves the Diaper Genie...



Am I right people?!

writermist


quality posts: 1 Private Messages writermist
Re: Monster Hunting



Is there anything I should change?

kevlar51


quality posts: 47 Private Messages kevlar51
tomspc wrote:You guys sure are dishing out a lot of crap about this design. Everyone loved it until it was rejected and instead of supporting your fellow artist you're beating him senseless. Let's take a look at all of the designs, a lot of them are clearly traced or clip art yet no one says anything and they never get rejected. Or even worse, using the same characters week after week just posed in a different way on the shirt.

What's the point of this? We all know this design is never going to print because he is clearly not part of the clique and he neglected to put a rainbow or some other cutesie crap in his design. Why beat him up when he never had a chance to begin with.



I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Lyonscc seems to fog more regularly than anyone else subbing these days. So if there's a clique, what's the benefit and why are you so sure he's not part of it?

orabbit


quality posts: 31 Private Messages orabbit
Re: Paranormal Investigator



Could you post a larger view of this? I'd really like to see the details. It looks great!

paxdomino


quality posts: 5 Private Messages paxdomino
oakenspirit wrote:So, I would love some advice.
I have been posting shirt ideas for a few months now with little to slight success. I know the competition is fierce and that many of my ideas/art will lose by default when put next to some of the other designs but I am hoping to improve each week. (I'm truthfully pretty new to photoshop as I am more of an oldschool artist).

So, point being... this shirt, I was decently proud of AND I felt fit the Woot demographic... yet, I have 2 votes... 2. I know its likely too late to update and improve it but is there anything anyone would recommend about my style/format that may help in future derbies?

Hope this is coming across relatively nonentitled sounding...



I really like the robot in the foreground. I think you could add a field of space in the background with earth far in the distance and it would really enforce the feeling of lonliness and being on another planet. Good luck!

On sale now!Thanks for voting!

tomspc


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tomspc
kevlar51 wrote:I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Lyonscc seems to fog more regularly than anyone else subbing these days. So if there's a clique, what's the benefit and why are you so sure he's not part of it?



There are many who have been in the fog but never printed. It's the old carrot on the stick trick.

lloyd2002


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lloyd2002
kevlar51 wrote:I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Lyonscc seems to fog more regularly than anyone else subbing these days. So if there's a clique, what's the benefit and why are you so sure he's not part of it?



I don't remember seeing any of his shirts printed.

but that probably answers the question why the clique is attacking him. If he wasn't a threat - in the fog - he wouldn't be a target. Since the clique can already keep wins in the family with pick #3, he's got to come in first or get an editor pick.

Maybe tomspc is right and lyonscc just needs to create himself some turtle/bunny/penguin/panda/fish characters, and he would be golden.

Edit: I found one shirt he printed - the cannibal Donner one.