Derby #80: Double-Take Derby 4

Rainy Day Fund

The artist requested removal

Rejected because: The artist requested removal

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ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Heh, I had sort of forgotten about this design, it's kinda fun to see old things come back. Good luck to everyone in the double take! :D

blahncblah


quality posts: 0 Private Messages blahncblah

SavedChristian wrote:Wow, this design suddenly jumped quite quickly.


Yeah, that happens a lot around here...

cobolisdead


quality posts: 2 Private Messages cobolisdead
blahncblah wrote:Yeah, that happens a lot around here...


:D

You can ride with me, or you can find your own path. Don't stab me in the back after I've cleared the way.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
blahncblah wrote:Yeah, that happens a lot around here...


By jumped, do you mean gained votes one at a time extremely slowly and made it to 14th place?

cmdixon2


quality posts: 21 Private Messages cmdixon2
ramyb wrote:By jumped, do you mean gained votes one at a time extremely slowly and made it to 14th place?


He actually copied it from a post he made on seki's entry. Trolls are

blahncblah


quality posts: 0 Private Messages blahncblah
SavedChristian wrote:Wow, this design suddenly jumped quite quickly.

Yeah, that happens a lot around here...



cmdixon2 wrote:He actually copied it from a post he made on seki's entry. Trolls are




Well, it's appropriate here as well.

SavedChristian


quality posts: 1 Private Messages SavedChristian
blahncblah wrote:Well, it's appropriate here as well.


Blahncblah, if I wanted to make a comment on this shirt I would have. Please don't take my name and words and throw them around, posting them out of context.

cobolisdead


quality posts: 2 Private Messages cobolisdead
SavedChristian wrote:Blahncblah, if I wanted to make a comment on this shirt I would have. Please don't take my name and words and throw them around, posting them out of context.


He didn't he quoted your mark of amazement and posted a mark of suspicion based off of the rumors about these two artist cheating due to their constant printing and shady pasts.

You can ride with me, or you can find your own path. Don't stab me in the back after I've cleared the way.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
cobolisdead wrote:He didn't he quoted your mark of amazement and posted a mark of suspicion based off of the rumors about these two artist cheating due to their constant printing and shady pasts.


He quoted it off a different shirt and posted it here though, and the original commenter is saying that it was not intended on this shirt. If you feel that it's suspicious for this shirt to have moved up to the top 15 when it placed 4th in its original derby, that's fine, but it's clearly not even a contender and hasn't graced new hotness. Not sure I see the issue.

thembfam


quality posts: 0 Private Messages thembfam

I feel that it is suspicious that this has more than, eh, two votes? It's not cute. It's drab. It's not funny. It's flat out boring. Bleh.

bradyson


quality posts: 5 Private Messages bradyson
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Probably just me, but I never really "got" this one. I understand its cute and its a cat pawing at coins. But I just don't "get" it.

slashampersand


quality posts: 0 Private Messages slashampersand
ramyb wrote: but it's clearly not even a contender and hasn't graced new hotness. Not sure I see the issue.


well, dipwad, it's the second highest (to your girlfriend, no surprise there!) in the hotness now and (surprise!) has jumped up suddenly.

so, um, yah, it IS ALWAYS an issue with you two.

SavedChristian


quality posts: 1 Private Messages SavedChristian
cobolisdead wrote:He didn't he quoted your mark of amazement and posted a mark of suspicion based off of the rumors about these two artist cheating due to their constant printing and shady pasts.


Maybe I was wrong. Maybe my comment really does apply to this shirt, especially after last night's jump.

christermime


quality posts: 0 Private Messages christermime
Re: Rainy Day Fund


This got what, 100 votes overnight? You guys are really slapping us in the face outright, huh.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
slashampersand wrote:well, dipwad, it's the second highest (to your girlfriend, no surprise there!) in the hotness now and (surprise!) has jumped up suddenly.

so, um, yah, it IS ALWAYS an issue with you two.


Honestly, I don't know why this is doing well either. I don't want it to do well, I even took back my own vote from it. I'm still assuming that it's not going to print, because it doesn't look like it's doing well enough. Just in case, I won't send the print-ready file to woot, but I don't think it's going to come down to that.
Nobody vote for this shirt!

SavedChristian


quality posts: 1 Private Messages SavedChristian
ramyb wrote:Honestly, I don't know why this is doing well either. I don't want it to do well, I even took back my own vote from it. I'm still assuming that it's not going to print, because it doesn't look like it's doing well enough. Just in case, I won't send the print-ready file to woot, but I don't think it's going to come down to that.
Nobody vote for this shirt!


ramyb, the martyr.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
SavedChristian wrote:ramyb, the martyr.


I'm not trying to be a martyr, it's the fact that no matter what, the legitimacy of any kind of win (or high placement in general, for that matter) is going to be questioned, and I'd rather not deal with it right now. Not for this shirt. Plus, there are a few shirts I'm hoping to get from the double-take, and this isn't one of them.

christermime


quality posts: 0 Private Messages christermime
ramyb wrote:I'm not trying to be a martyr, it's the fact that no matter what, the legitimacy of any kind of win (or high placement in general, for that matter) is going to be questioned, and I'd rather not deal with it right now. Not for this shirt. Plus, there are a few shirts I'm hoping to get from the double-take, and this isn't one of them.


Then quit posting new shirts. They all look just like this one.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
christermime wrote:Then quit posting new shirts. They all look just like this one.


Untrue. This one has big, watery anime eyes. most of his have beady, tiny anime eyes.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:I'm not trying to be a martyr, it's the fact that no matter what, the legitimacy of any kind of win (or high placement in general, for that matter) is going to be questioned, and I'd rather not deal with it right now. Not for this shirt. Plus, there are a few shirts I'm hoping to get from the double-take, and this isn't one of them.


And you think your equally hacky girlfriend, whose work looks identical to yours, winning will make those questions stop?

Oh ah! a ghost! hoo, you're so maligned! I don't for a second believe you took a single vote away from this, let alone however many votes you might actually have to play with, and if you did, I bet some other piece of yours ends up shooting up in the hotness in place of this by sunday.

Your work shoots up at random from nowhere weekly in numbers no one else is doing. Half the internet believes you're a cheat and a hack, from before you even started entering here. Your girlfriend was banned from another site for juicing her success via other accounts. If this is some sort of vast conspiracy against you, then damn, I hope I never piss those dudes off.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:I don't for a second believe you took a single vote away from this


It's irrelevant whether you believe that I took away votes or not, because I already sent an email to joel asking him to reject the entry. So pretty soon it'll have no votes at all

Have a nice day.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:It's irrelevant whether you believe that I took away votes or not, because I already sent an email to joel asking him to reject the entry. So pretty soon it'll have no votes at all

Have a nice day.


You act like I didn't do the same already

Again, the point is that as soon as you said "I don't want this to win," someone probably tattled to use this as proof to get it rejected. As soon as you said "I've already sent an email," 10 others probably tattled to make sure joel got the point. And even were you honest in your insistent sacrifices, you're still profiting because your girlfriend, who has no distinguishable style from you, is going to get printed too.

So technically it's all calculations to make you look, as someone noted, like a martyr.

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Jeeze, I was gone for an hour and the votes for the hotness were sitting in the 12-19 range. I come back to see this at the top with 36 votes? I made a note to see what my screen showed most everyone's votes when I updated just before I left. This, in particular, had 166. In one hour you snagged 35 votes...

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:You act like I didn't do the same already


Except that a request from Adder isn't a grounds for rejection (shocker!), but a request from the artist is.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:Except that a request from Adder isn't a grounds for rejection (shocker!), but a request from the artist is.


I was simply making sure your words got to him. I'd hate to think your email got returned, or his mailbox was full, or you forgot to hit send.

SavedChristian


quality posts: 1 Private Messages SavedChristian
ramyb wrote:It's irrelevant whether you believe that I took away votes or not, because I already sent an email to joel asking him to reject the entry. So pretty soon it'll have no votes at all

Have a nice day.


Regardless of what Adder says, if you aren't cooking the votes (which I will choose to assume until proven wrong), aren't you preventing a lot of people from buying a shirt they really want by requesting it be rejected?

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
SavedChristian wrote:Regardless of what Adder says, if you aren't cooking the votes (which I will choose to assume until proven wrong), aren't you preventing a lot of people from buying a shirt they really want by requesting it be rejected?


maybe jeebus will save it.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
SavedChristian wrote:Regardless of what Adder says, if you aren't cooking the votes (which I will choose to assume until proven wrong), aren't you preventing a lot of people from buying a shirt they really want by requesting it be rejected?


The argument can also be made that I'm preventing a lot of people from buying a shirt they really want by knocking something out of 3rd (if this were to make it up there)

JadenKale wrote:This, in particular, had 166. In one hour you snagged 35 votes...


I'm fairly sure it was at 186 when I woke up today, which was about an hour and a half ago, but it'll be very easy to tell whose numbers are right in 2 hours. Not that it's relevant anyway.

AdderXYU wrote:I was simply making sure your words got to him. I'd hate to think your email got returned, or his mailbox was full, or you forgot to hit send.


Well, it would certainly be a shame if he didn't receive the email, but we'll find out on Monday. It seems like we are all on the same page, albeit for different reasons (but who cares!) :D

skibbereengirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skibbereengirl
AdderXYU wrote:And you think your equally hacky girlfriend, whose work looks identical to yours, winning will make those questions stop?


Are the two artists really boyfriend/girlfriend? If they are, then the very high vote count for both artists over the past few weeks truly is fishy.

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
skibbereengirl wrote:Are the two artists really boyfriend/girlfriend? If they are, then the very high vote count for both artists over the past few weeks truly is fishy.


Yeah it's been noted time and time again that Seki and Ramy are girlfriend and boyfriend.

SavedChristian


quality posts: 1 Private Messages SavedChristian
ramyb wrote:The argument can also be made that I'm preventing a lot of people from buying a shirt they really want by knocking something out of 3rd (if this were to make it up there)


Then why ever post a shirt for any derby in the first place if that is your concern? There will always be someone you knock out of third place in any competition.

I'm just trying to understand the motivation for jerking this design out of the race.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
SavedChristian wrote:Then why ever post a shirt for any derby in the first place if that is your concern? There will always be someone you knock out of third place in any competition.

I'm just trying to understand the motivation for jerking this design out of the race.


I generally am happy, at least on some level, with my designs, and want to see them do well and am proud of my work. That's not the case with this one, and the shirts that would be pushed behind it potentially are shirts that I want myself. Plus, this is the double-take derby, which is a second chance for artists. I don't think there's any reason for me to be getting a second chance at printing. I do new entries each week, and it's nice to see them win, but it's not as nice to see an old entry win. That's all.

Valis


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Valis
ramyb wrote:I do new entries each week, and it's nice to see them win, but it's not as nice to see an old entry win. That's all.


So are you gonna pull them all, or single this one out?

skibbereengirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skibbereengirl
SavedChristian wrote:Then why ever post a shirt for any derby in the first place if that is your concern? There will always be someone you knock out of third place in any competition.

I'm just trying to understand the motivation for jerking this design out of the race.


Maybe feeling a little guilty?

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
Valis wrote:So are you gonna pull them all, or single this one out?


My other two HMs are in 48th and 53rd place, unless they start flying upwards, I don't see them being an issue. The reason for pulling this one out is that it's doing well. I don't feel that there's any more reason in defending my decision, if you are happy that it's going to be gone then please don't complain.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Valis wrote:So are you gonna pull them all, or single this one out?


And will Charmander be pulling hers as well?

Valis


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Valis
ramyb wrote:I don't feel that there's any more reason in defending my decision, if you are happy that it's going to be gone then please don't complain.


I wasn't complaining, I was just asking a question that I thought was relevant. Let me rephrase it:

If the others do start to do well, will you ask for them to be pulled as well?

groosalugg


quality posts: 4 Private Messages groosalugg
skibbereengirl wrote:Are the two artists really boyfriend/girlfriend? If they are, then the very high vote count for both artists over the past few weeks truly is fishy.


Yes, now you are catching on.


Ramy, how can you afford to turn down $1,000 ?

Oh, that's right. You'll just make it up next week. Or last week. Or this week with the other kitty/doggy "art".

Wow, you are selfless. I spelled that wrong.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:And will Charmander be pulling hers as well?


I doubt it. She actually likes her design and plans to wear it, and wanted it to print originally over her other one in that derby. I'm not sure why you expect us to make joint decisions.

Valis wrote:If the others do start to do well, will you ask for them to be pulled as well?


Sure, I have no problems doing that, but I would prefer not to have to do that with my "genesis in the mind" entry, since it's very different from my usual entries and I would appreciate its being seen. But either way, assuming woot is going to listen to my email(s) (which I can't imagine why they wouldn't), you shouldn't expect any prints from me this week.

Albireo


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Albireo

goddamn, shirt.woot never fails to provide the laughs. tall poppy syndrome is alive and well on the internet, and it makes my heart glad~

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
Re: Rainy Day Fund


well, when I looked and saw it overtake Boots's and Zenne's entries ("and his head swelled with pride", "greedy pirate") I died a little inside, I must admit. just from a compositional view, this is not on par at all. its boxy and disjointed, and makes very little sense outside of the derby. this was one of your first entries if I remember correctly.

dunno about the cheating thing. think its plausible that the "anti-cute backlash" going on in today's shirt thread is spilling over into here, and people see the thumbnail and click I want, without checking the whole thing. from a simply "cute" perspective, the cat has wide-eyed appeal. but when taken on the whole, it lacks substance. I hope Joel listens to you and pulls it, because if this manages to fog I am gonna cry hard. for real. big ginormous watery anime tears.

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
Albireo wrote:goddamn, shirt.woot never fails to provide the laughs. tall poppy syndrome is alive and well on the internet, and it makes my heart glad~


I think you need to read a little more before you assume that they're being resented for their 'genuine talents'.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
JadenKale wrote:I think you need to read a little more before you assume that they're being resented for their 'genuine talents'.


Someone is said to be a target of tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social, or political position is criticized as being presumptuous, attention seeking, or without merit.

from wiki, for you

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
ramyb wrote:Someone is said to be a target of tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social, or political position is criticized as being presumptuous, attention seeking, or without merit.

from wiki, for you

Since you love wiki: Alternatively, it is seen as a societal phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are criticized or resented because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.

If you're going to quote, quote the whole thing.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:Someone is said to be a target of tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social, or political position is criticized as being presumptuous, attention seeking, or without merit.

from wiki, for you


So is Manga-Hobo a higher economic, social or political position?

I'd say it's more of an Emperor's New Clothes scenario than a tall-poppy. Sometimes, and in fact most of the time, people dislike popular things because they are sub-par and dumbed down enough that the dumbest people can appreciate them. No one is jealous. However, many people are led to believe that because so many people like it, it is consequently good. But as you said in the Defrost thread, I believe, you've never accused anyone of being jealous of you, so you already realize such an allegation is silly, yes?

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
JadenKale wrote:Since you love wiki: Alternatively, it is seen as a societal phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are criticized or resented because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.

If you're going to quote, quote the whole thing.


AdderXYU wrote:So is Manga-Hobo a higher economic, social or political position?

I'd say it's more of an Emperor's New Clothes scenario than a tall-poppy. Sometimes, and in fact most of the time, people dislike popular things because they are sub-par and dumbed down enough that the dumbest people can appreciate them. No one is jealous. However, many people are led to believe that because so many people like it, it is consequently good. But as you said in the Defrost thread, I believe, you've never accused anyone of being jealous of you, so you already realize such an allegation is silly, yes?


I believe that the definition that I highlighted seems to fit, I rose to higher economic standing, you believe it's without merit. Do you both just like to argue?

artulo


quality posts: 13 Private Messages artulo
ramyb wrote:It's irrelevant whether you believe that I took away votes or not, because I already sent an email to joel asking him to reject the entry. So pretty soon it'll have no votes at all

Have a nice day.


How come this wasn't removed when two others were just a bit ago?

Valis


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Valis
artulo wrote:How come this wasn't removed when two others were just a bit ago?


I'm pretty sure Toe tattled on himself on Friday when his entries were posted, and Ramy only deicded to pull this today.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:I believe that the definition that I highlighted seems to fit, I rose to higher economic standing, you believe it's without merit. Do you both just like to argue?


"OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse."

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
artulo wrote:How come this wasn't removed when two others were just a bit ago?


The others were removed before I made that post- I saw the reason for their being rejected, and decided to do the same.

lokklyn


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lokklyn
Re: Rainy Day Fund


How is it that you're criticized for ANY decision you make? You've got an impressive following, hah.

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011

My thinking about this entire ramy/seki situation is this: the staff at woot are obviously keenly aware of the thought that these two are cheating. They are also equally aware of all the conspiracy theories flying around. I'm sure that with a little bit of investigation on their part (checking IP addresses/accounts of the votes/credit card info on those who did vote, since you have to have made a purchase to be able to vote), they could easily see if there is any foul play.

And, should there be any, I would hope that the staff would take quick and decisive action. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, as both artists' pieces sell well (I myself have purchased two of ramyb's pieces), and every company is out to turn a profit. However, integrity should also play a huge part in the disclosure and subsequent administrative process as well.

The fact of the matter is that the anime style is very popular (and sells very well), and that it does not surprise me in the least that the both the genre and the artists who are making use of that genre are doing well at this point in time. Hell, if (I should probably say 'when') the dog♥cat shirt sells, I will be forking over my $10 b/c my wife is in love with that shirt.

Also, the sales involved with ramy/seki shirts is something that can't really be explained away. Unless, of course, you think that the artists are buying up their own shirts, which is fairly ridiculous because they only get a portion of the profits (obv!). I know that Imposter sold out by 6 am the day it was introduced. Why? It is a very wearable shirt and, hate the style or not, it is very easy to see why 3,000 people (at least) would want to wear it.

Just my 2¢...

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
kcman011 wrote:My thinking about this entire ramy/seki situation is this: the staff at woot are obviously keenly aware of the thought that these two are cheating. They are also equally aware of all the conspiracy theories flying around. I'm sure that with a little bit of investigation on their part (checking IP addresses/accounts of the votes/credit card info on those who did vote, since you have to have made a purchase to be able to vote), they could easily see if there is any foul play.

And, should there be any, I would hope that the staff would take quick and decisive action. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, as both artists' pieces sell well (I myself have purchased two of ramyb's pieces), and every company is out to turn a profit. However, integrity should also play a huge part in the disclosure and subsequent administrative process as well.

The fact of the matter is that the anime style is very popular (and sells very well), and that it does not surprise me in the least that the both the genre and the artists who are making use of that genre are doing well at this point in time. Hell, if (I should probably say 'when') the dog♥cat shirt sells, I will be forking over my $10 b/c my wife is in love with that shirt.

Also, the sales involved with ramy/seki shirts is something that can't really be explained away. Unless, of course, you think that the artists are buying up their own shirts, which is fairly ridiculous because they only get a portion of the profits (obv!). I know that Imposter sold out by 6 am the day it was introduced. Why? It is a very wearable shirt and, hate the style or not, it is very easy to see why 3,000 people (at least) would want to wear it.

Just my 2¢...


kawaiikes


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kawaiikes
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Ramyb, if you're not satisfied with the art on this shirt, it's definitely up to you if you'd like to remove it from the derby to let other shirts move up. I don't think you're being a martyr, I think you're being a reasonable artist, and that's quite respectable.

Though I have to say, myself and one or two friends would be interested in this shirt if it printed.

I'm sorry that you're constantly receiving nasty criticism; people can't seem to just accept that the shirts you design are WEARABLE and aesthetically pleasing, and instead feel the need to basically start a war about it, or convince themselves that you must be CHEATING / HAXXOR / THE SAME PERSON AS SEKI simply because they don't like your shirts.

It reminds me of in politics, when people conjure up ridiculous notions of negative things about politicians because they dislike them on a personal level.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
kcman011 wrote:
Also, the sales involved with ramy/seki shirts is something that can't really be explained away. ...


I am glad you brought this up. If all of their shirts sold out that quickly, I would not be responding. But they don't. Today's shirt by ramy was only 24 votes behind the 1st place winner, yet it has not sold out yet. Yesterday's shirt sold out before noon. There are all sorts of reasons for this, and today's shirt can still sell out. But it is one more thing that is making folks like myself ask questions.

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011
mjc613 wrote:I am glad you brought this up. If all of their shirts sold out that quickly, I would not be responding. But they don't. Today's shirt by ramy was only 24 votes behind the 1st place winner, yet it has not sold out yet. Yesterday's shirt sold out before noon. There are all sorts of reasons for this, and today's shirt can still sell out. But it is one more thing that is making folks like myself ask questions.


I'm confused. Both designs got 3000+ votes? Where they placed and how close they finished don't have to correlate on the sales end, especially when it comes to sellouts. IMO, tgentry's Monkey King design looked more wearable on a shirt than today's offering, which as noted by many users, would be better served on a poster. Just because they were thisclose to each other vote-wise, doesn't mean much unless there are enough votes to satisfy a sellout. And <900 is hardly that...

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
Re: Rainy Day Fund


KC, I have a question regarding your wife's love of the cat/dog one. does it not bother her in the slightest that each boobage will be decorated with an animal? that she essentially because of the placement will have one picture on each breast, like some sort of anime pasties? aside from not caring for the design style or overall picture, I could never wear that shirt because I would feel like some sort of adolescent typographical documentaries star sporting a big sign that says "pet my chest" or something.

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
kcman011 wrote:I'm confused. Both designs got 3000+ votes? Where they placed and how close they finished don't have to correlate on the sales end, especially when it comes to sellouts. IMO, tgentry's Monkey King design looked more wearable on a shirt than today's offering, which as noted by many users, would be better served on a poster. Just because they were thisclose to each other vote-wise, doesn't mean much unless there are enough votes to satisfy a sellout. And <900 is hardly that...


There are many people who do not participate in the derbies and yet buy shirts. That's how woot has determined that 3000 is a good number of shirts to print for derby winners.

If 886 votes can translate to 3000 shirts sold in 12 hours, there is no reason 862 votes can't translate to 3000 sales in 18 hours.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
SaritaBeth wrote:KC, I have a question regarding your wife's love of the cat/dog one. does it not bother her in the slightest that each boobage will be decorated with an animal? that she essentially because of the placement will have one picture on each breast, like some sort of anime pasties? aside from not caring for the design style or overall picture, I could never wear that shirt because I would feel like some sort of adolescent typographical documentaries star sporting a big sign that says "pet my chest" or something.


I was thinking the same thing. One of the radio stations here calls women's mammaries "puppies".

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011
SaritaBeth wrote:KC, I have a question regarding your wife's love of the cat/dog one. does it not bother her in the slightest that each boobage will be decorated with an animal? that she essentially because of the placement will have one picture on each breast, like some sort of anime pasties? aside from not caring for the design style or overall picture, I could never wear that shirt because I would feel like some sort of adolescent typographical documentaries star sporting a big sign that says "pet my chest" or something.


I guess my wife has no qualms in feeling like some sort of adolescent typographical documentaries star sporting a big sign that says 'pet my chest.' It's not like guys aren't already looking (she's 36DD).

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011
mjc613 wrote:There are many people who do not participate in the derbies and yet buy shirts. That's how woot has determined that 3000 is a good number of shirts to print for derby winners.

If 886 votes can translate to 3000 shirts sold in 12 hours, there is no reason 862 votes can't translate to 3000 sales in 18 hours.


I haven't been a wooter long enough to see a trend, and what you state is understandable. But, if I were to look back at previous derbies, I'm sure I'd see something similar in many of them.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
mjc613 wrote:There are many people who do not participate in the derbies and yet buy shirts. That's how woot has determined that 3000 is a good number of shirts to print for derby winners.

If 886 votes can translate to 3000 shirts sold in 12 hours, there is no reason 862 votes can't translate to 3000 sales in 18 hours.


Especially considering that the first place shirt saw a fairly steady hotness pace, while this one, both during its first incarnation and post-rejection one, was blazing up the charts at blistering speeds. Had it not been rejected, it would have likely well overtaken the first place shirt in votes, yet the sales lack. And from what I gather from the arguer, the fact that a shirt can bring in sales is proof that no cheating occurred. Always trust an under-one-month wooter to have a grasp on the situation. Especially one who is supporting a guy who is presumed to be fixing the vote with, er, new accounts.

Oh well. This will end up in the top 15 by next week's reckoning anyway, like every shirt this fraud gets printed without a sellout.

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011
AdderXYU wrote:Especially considering that the first place shirt saw a fairly steady hotness pace, while this one, both during its first incarnation and post-rejection one, was blazing up the charts at blistering speeds. Had it not been rejected, it would have likely well overtaken the first place shirt in votes, yet the sales lack. And from what I gather from the arguer, the fact that a shirt can bring in sales is proof that no cheating occurred. Always trust an under-one-month wooter to have a grasp on the situation. Especially one who is supporting a guy who is presumed to be fixing the vote with, er, new accounts.

Oh well. This will end up in the top 15 by next week's reckoning anyway, like every shirt this fraud gets printed without a sellout.


I'm neither supporting nor opposing the artist or those who do oppose him. What I do know, however, is that I have bought two of this 'frauds' shirts, and I have no affiliation with the artist whatsoever. Other than the fact that I (and many others with some of the comments that have been made) have enjoyed some of his work.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:And you think your equally hacky girlfriend, whose work looks identical to yours, winning will make those questions stop?

Oh ah! a ghost! hoo, you're so maligned! I don't for a second believe you took a single vote away from this, let alone however many votes you might actually have to play with, and if you did, I bet some other piece of yours ends up shooting up in the hotness in place of this by sunday.

Your work shoots up at random from nowhere weekly in numbers no one else is doing. Half the internet believes you're a cheat and a hack, from before you even started entering here. Your girlfriend was banned from another site for juicing her success via other accounts. If this is some sort of vast conspiracy against you, then damn, I hope I never piss those dudes off.


All of which seems to me to ignore the main piece of evidence - ramyb and sekiyoku have routinely sold shirts out and gotten them to the top of the reckoning list. Between them, they have four of the top ten selling shirts this week, and 6 of the 27 on sale.

If their shirts were winning the Derbies and getting reckoned out swiftly, you'd have a case. When they can place four shirts into the top ten on actual sales instead of votes? Doesn't pass the sniff test.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:Especially considering that the first place shirt saw a fairly steady hotness pace, while this one, both during its first incarnation and post-rejection one, was blazing up the charts at blistering speeds. Had it not been rejected, it would have likely well overtaken the first place shirt in votes, yet the sales lack. And from what I gather from the arguer, the fact that a shirt can bring in sales is proof that no cheating occurred. Always trust an under-one-month wooter to have a grasp on the situation. Especially one who is supporting a guy who is presumed to be fixing the vote with, er, new accounts.

Oh well. This will end up in the top 15 by next week's reckoning anyway, like every shirt this fraud gets printed without a sellout.


So how do you explain the sales? At $2 a $15 shirt, making for a $13 loss each time, it doesn't really seem like purchase fraud is worthwhile. So where do the sales of these not-actually-popular shirts come from such that four of them are in the top ten?

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
PhilSandifer wrote:All of which seems to me to ignore the main piece of evidence - ramyb and sekiyoku have routinely sold shirts out and gotten them to the top of the reckoning list. Between them, they have four of the top ten selling shirts this week, and 6 of the 27 on sale.

If their shirts were winning the Derbies and getting reckoned out swiftly, you'd have a case. When they can place four shirts into the top ten on actual sales instead of votes? Doesn't pass the sniff test.


not that I have an opinion one way or the other, but I must point out your faulty logic. they also won several derbies in the usual fashion and had their stuff reckoned quickly. line derby springs to mind almost immediately. other artists have won first place only to have their stuff reckoned the following week. there is no case to be made in either direction, as proof for anything. just saying.

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
kcman011 wrote:I guess my wife has no qualms in feeling like some sort of adolescent typographical documentaries star sporting a big sign that says 'pet my chest.' It's not like guys aren't already looking (she's 36DD).


yeah. see, thats my issue. I also am a member of the big "girls" club. i don't want my chest to look like tatas just waiting for those little swirly fringe things. I have noticed actually with a number of her designs (cake, etc) the placement is a bit high. dunno. once upon a time woot used to reject things that had one of each item on the mammary region. and discouraged designers from making animated pasties. good times, good times.

and MJC...I shudder at how bad that radio station must be. to refer to my chest as puppies...wow. makes me do the oooh icky icky dance. >_<

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

ErinS1121


quality posts: 3 Private Messages ErinS1121
Re: Rainy Day Fund


sigh...I'm sad to see this continued drama over ramyb's (and seki's) shirts. I've been lurking around these boards following the drama a lot lately and I just can't believe all the bitterness people on here have towards these two designers. Personally, for the most part, I enjoy their designs - I'm even proudly wearing my Impostor shirt right now. This shirt was the only one in the 2nd chance derby that had my vote and I'm sad that it'll be coming down on Monday.

I guess I'm just one of those "new" wooters that people love to hate because I like cute shirts. And before any of you conspiracy theorists decide to think that I'm an alt of ramyb's or seki's because I only have a few posts on this board, I'm not.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
SaritaBeth wrote:not that I have an opinion one way or the other, but I must point out your faulty logic. they also won several derbies in the usual fashion and had their stuff reckoned quickly. line derby springs to mind almost immediately. other artists have won first place only to have their stuff reckoned the following week. there is no case to be made in either direction, as proof for anything. just saying.


Line derby everything got reckoned. And that is the only time I can find when either of them were reckoned on the first Reckoning.

WhatsInAName


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WhatsInAName

All drama aside, this has to be one of the most uncreative designs that I have seen on this site.

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
PhilSandifer wrote:Line derby everything got reckoned. And that is the only time I can find when either of them were reckoned on the first Reckoning.


you misunderstand me. I am saying that vote totals and numbers of sales have very little to do with each other in the end. one way or the other. doesn't prove cheating, doesn't prove innocence. artists with high vote totals get reckoned quickly,(columbus) artists with low totals go on to sell close to 10K and still selling (nevermore). sales and votes don't necessarily have any connection, so your logic is flawed. what people are shocked over instead, is that in 6 weeks they have had 10 prints between them. that is unprecedented as far as I know.

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:Especially considering that the first place shirt saw a fairly steady hotness pace, while this one, both during its first incarnation and post-rejection one, was blazing up the charts at blistering speeds. Had it not been rejected, it would have likely well overtaken the first place shirt in votes, yet the sales lack. And from what I gather from the arguer, the fact that a shirt can bring in sales is proof that no cheating occurred. Always trust an under-one-month wooter to have a grasp on the situation. Especially one who is supporting a guy who is presumed to be fixing the vote with, er, new accounts.

Oh well. This will end up in the top 15 by next week's reckoning anyway, like every shirt this fraud gets printed without a sellout.


So suddenly, sales matter? Great logic on all parts, Adder. But please don't try to attribute your faulty argument to me. We've discussed this before, and you've never failed to ignore everything I've had to say, so I'll just quote myself again:

"A lack of votes doesn't necessarily mean anything, but an excess of them should, and it has. There are sometimes flukes on the low end of votes, but rarely on the high end, and that's what you should be looking for. I never said that there is an exact correlation between votes and sales, but there is a general "trend" that indicates that a high vote total usually leads to high sales."

In this case, tgentry's shirt is most definitely a fluke on the low end. He himself expressed great surprise at the sellout, and said that he "doesn't get this place" because the vote total was so low. Let's take a look at other designs that got similar vote totals:

1
2
3
4
And most importantly
5

My shirt has sold just under 2700, much higher than any of those (most of which received more votes as well)- so as soon as you can argue for mine being sketchy without those five examples (and many more for that matter) being infinitely more-so, please let me know. Until then, stop trying to argue both sides of the same point for your own purposes, it makes it seem as though you have no argument at all.

And as a side note, your theory about my buying my own shirts in reckoning is possibly the dumbest I've heard from you yet. So I'm spending an extra $5 to make back $2 on each shirt? Good thinking, bud.

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
ramyb wrote:So suddenly, sales matter? Great logic on all parts, Adder. But please don't try to attribute your faulty argument to me. We've discussed this before, and you've never failed to ignore everything I've had to say, so I'll just quote myself again:

"A lack of votes doesn't necessarily mean anything, but an excess of them should, and it has. There are sometimes flukes on the low end of votes, but rarely on the high end, and that's what you should be looking for. I never said that there is an exact correlation between votes and sales, but there is a general "trend" that indicates that a high vote total usually leads to high sales."

In this case, tgentry's shirt is most definitely a fluke on the low end. He himself expressed great surprise at the sellout, and said that he "doesn't get this place" because the vote total was so low. Let's take a look at other designs that got similar vote totals:

1
2
3
4
And most importantly
5

My shirt has sold just under 2700, much higher than any of those (most of which received more votes as well)- so as soon as you can argue for mine being sketchy without those five examples (and many more for that matter) being infinitely more-so, please let me know. Until then, stop trying to argue both sides of the same point for your own purposes, it makes it seem as though you have no argument at all.

And as a side note, your theory about my buying my own shirts in reckoning is possibly the dumbest I've heard from you yet. So I'm spending an extra $5 to make back $2 on each shirt? Good thinking, bud.


Actually, in a week, you could invest $100-150 of your (possibly combined) winnings into each new shirt and still come out ahead for a while on the lower placing shirts. You win a base of $1000, plus $2 for every shirt purchased after the first day. It's really all just math and knowing how the sales are going. If the low end of the reckoning list is slow in sales, yeah a day of 10 shirts sold will jump a shirt from 22nd or 21st to 18th or 19th, easily. Do that for another day, and that shirt bounces up into the mid level - 13th to 15th place. A third day and it can realistically reach the top 10. This seems to only happen with their stuff. The problem is in regularly doing that, you set yourself apart from the group and you stick out like a sore thumb.

I've never seen a shirt sell 1600 or so and bounce up like Bunny Elevator did in it's 2nd week... not since the numbers changed to 3000 sales a 1st night. It had moderate first week sales once it listed on the Reckoning. And yet somehow, during that first week on the charts, it went from the deadzone of the bottom 7 to just out of harms way. It started off week 2 at an amazing position of 14th place and hovered between 14th and 15th place, making only 41 sales. Not bad for a shirt that ended up just barely selling half of a 1st day print amount... perhaps a bit too well. Based on other shirts coming into the reckoning, (winners of the Alternate History Derby were coming into the rotation the following week) and seeing sales slipping, the next week would place them far lower on the list.
For the place it got the next week, it was doing sales within the norms for a 17th-21st print and had placed 19th on Monday at midnight. That was, until Friday. It jumped from 20th on Thursday 12am to 14th on Friday at 12am - a 34 shirt spread is relatively uncommon for a shirt that faired so poorly in first day sales and started week two so low on the list. It nearly doubled it's sales from week 2 to week 3 on the list - 81 sales.

The 2nd week for Bunny Elevator was the first week for the Beginning Derby. The Moon and Life Renewed* shirts didn't sell out and both crawled up the charts. There was approx 600 sale spread between them (Moon started out the week at 2867 and in 20th at midnight on Monday and Life Renewed sat at 2287 and 25th) Both of these, since they did better in sales, were not surprising to see about the same sales Moon sold 76 and Life Renewed sold 82 for the week. It made me question Bunny Elevator however, since it had made more in it's 3rd week than it's 2nd even with such horrible first day sales.

Yes, Moon sold more on it's first day than Bunny Elevator, but it did the same walk. And now Defrost did the same thing as Moon this week... Actually it looks like it'll be more in over all sales than Moon's first week, since figuring out first week numbers from Monday to tonight at midnight, it already has amassed 65 sales. Instead of 7-11 sales a day
that Moon (in it's 1st week) and Bunny Elevator (in the 3rd week), Defrost did 16-20 each day (with the exception of Thursday, when it oddly only sold 8 the whole day).





* I'm only using Life Renewed as a basis for comparison. I'm not attempting to implicate that designer in anything since, based on sales, that piece falls within the numbers for the shirts in that position coming into it's 2nd week on the charts.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:

And as a side note, your theory about my buying my own shirts in reckoning is possibly the dumbest I've heard from you yet. So I'm spending an extra $5 to make back $2 on each shirt? Good thinking, bud.


If you were doing so, it would have the following benefits:

~Obviously you'd be making the $2 back, but more importantly

~you'd be that much closer to another week alive, meaning more wooters could be exposed to your shirt and buy it, eventually making you more money, and

~you'd potentially have the ability to make a new account during the purchase, which is basically the concern most of us have with you two given your pasts.

Though I agree, in general it makes more sense for you to create fakes on the $10 day. All I know is that you've apparently used an elaborate network of other people to advance your sales in other situations, so as to make it inconclusive whether you were screwing around or not. I see no reason you wouldn't have an equal cadre of people sectioned off to make sure every mediocre piece of koi you do sells better after than before.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
SaritaBeth wrote:you misunderstand me. I am saying that vote totals and numbers of sales have very little to do with each other in the end. one way or the other. doesn't prove cheating, doesn't prove innocence. artists with high vote totals get reckoned quickly,(columbus) artists with low totals go on to sell close to 10K and still selling (nevermore). sales and votes don't necessarily have any connection, so your logic is flawed. what people are shocked over instead, is that in 6 weeks they have had 10 prints between them. that is unprecedented as far as I know.


Exactly this.

I honestly can't believe Adder was arguing that the non-sellout is suspicious. He's always pointing out how votes don't correlate with sales as a reason why woot should step in and not leave it all to votes. Do I need to find links to all the shirts by the favoured artists that got high votes but failed to sell out?

The fact that the numbers were so close between first and second means nothing, really. We've seen second place shirts outsell first place. We've seen highly voted shirts sell poorly. My own "A Wonderful Day" received over 1000 votes but didn't even break 2400, IIRC.

When you start making up extra reasons to be suspicious - reasons that go against what you've so vehemently argued in the past - well, that's just not cool.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
JadenKale wrote:* I'm only using Life Renewed as a basis for comparison. I'm not attempting to implicate that designer in anything since, based on sales, that piece falls within the numbers for the shirts in that position coming into it's 2nd week on the charts.


Wow, for someone who keeps such close track of numbers, you really are terrible at keeping your variables in check. The two weeks after my bunnies went up, I didn't have a win, and then I won again in the 3rd week. In fact, they were linked on the front page TWICE that week, once for imposter and once for defrost. Shockingly enough, infinityloop also had a print the week after her life renewed print, and as a result, it managed to hang on in reckoning. Your theory is extremely far-fetched and asinine, failing to take into consideration anything that is outside your tunnel-vision field.

lokklyn


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lokklyn
JadenKale wrote:Actually, in a week, you could invest $100-150 of your (possibly combined) winnings into each new shirt and still come out ahead for a while on the lower placing shirts. You win a base of $1000, plus $2 for every shirt purchased after the first day. It's really all just math and knowing how the sales are going. If the low end of the reckoning list is slow in sales, yeah a day of 10 shirts sold will jump a shirt from 22nd or 21st to 18th or 19th, easily. Do that for another day, and that shirt bounces up into the mid level - 13th to 15th place.


Okay, so you win $1000 + $2 for every shirt sold after the first day.
Then there are taxes to account for, which are going to suck. This is going to be around 40% after federal, state, self employment, medicare, and social security taxes - So you're not making $1k anymore. You're making $600 + residuals off a winning design.
After taxes are accounted for, it seems economically infeasible to me to spend hundreds of dollars a week on your own designs.

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011
lokklyn wrote:Okay, so you win $1000 + $2 for every shirt sold after the first day.
Then there are taxes to account for, which are going to suck. This is going to be around 40% after federal, state, self employment, medicare, and social security taxes - So you're not making $1k anymore. You're making $600 + residuals off a winning design.
After taxes are accounted for, it seems economically infeasible to me to spend hundreds of dollars a week on your own designs.


Yeah, these conspiracy theories are pretty funny. And I've been here for less than a month, as duly pointed out, and I'm already growing incessantly tired of them.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
JadenKale wrote:Numbers!


Actually, I recall that one of the shirts in the Old West derby (the one with the pink fake horse?) managed to outsell Buffalo Sunset in after-first-day sales and creep up the charts. I don't think it stayed very long, but it did it.

So the number you gave Bunny Elevator on its first week was 41. Hey, I can believe that. "A Wonderful Day" didn't sell out, but in its one week before death, it sold exactly 100 more. That particular week had a lot of sales, I guess.

Anyway, a plausible (I think) explanation for their after-first-day rebounds is that they're getting more exposure from wins in consecutive weeks. Woot links to their old designs when they win. New wooters (and old wooters who missed it for some reason) find out they can buy that past shirt. So maybe they do.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
ramyb wrote:Wow, for someone who keeps such close track of numbers, you really are terrible at keeping your variables in check. The two weeks after my bunnies went up, I didn't have a win, and then I won again in the 3rd week. In fact, they were linked on the front page TWICE that week, once for imposter and once for defrost. Shockingly enough, infinityloop also had a print the week after her life renewed print, and as a result, it managed to hang on in reckoning. Your theory is extremely far-fetched and asinine, failing to take into consideration anything that is outside your tunnel-vision field.


I'm so sorry Ramy... I get your work and Seki's confused way too much to care at this point. You two are dating, and whether you live together or not, it matters not. You two have both said that you influence one another's work. To me, it's all the same. You two may as well be the entity SekiRamy, provided, of course, that isn't an insult to Japanese everywhere.

Loopy's next print after Life Renewed was Vincent. Between it listing on the reckoning charts and getting cut at midnight the following Monday, it sold approximately 27 shirts the whole week. It came in at 26th and ended at 23rd. That's not even the same scope on the numbers. Thus, why I didn't even refer to it.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
JadenKale wrote:You two have both said that you influence one another's work. To me, it's all the same.


Have they actually said that? I've been too busy to follow the forums closely as of late. I actually recall Ramy saying that he and Seki actually keep their artwork (and finances) completely separate - which I found surprising at the time, since their styles are so similar.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
eHalcyon wrote:Exactly this.

I honestly can't believe Adder was arguing that the non-sellout is suspicious. He's always pointing out how votes don't correlate with sales as a reason why woot should step in and not leave it all to votes. Do I need to find links to all the shirts by the favoured artists that got high votes but failed to sell out?

The fact that the numbers were so close between first and second means nothing, really. We've seen second place shirts outsell first place. We've seen highly voted shirts sell poorly. My own "A Wonderful Day" received over 1000 votes but didn't even break 2400, IIRC.

When you start making up extra reasons to be suspicious - reasons that go against what you've so vehemently argued in the past - well, that's just not cool.


Everything about them is suspicious. I think you're missing that.

Votes do not correlate to sales, but most of the nitwits here don't seem to get that, so I'm explaining how it is fishy even by their delusional standards. You see, they give the "sales speak for themselves" line over and over, how clearly if they're selling out, it means they aren't cheating. But they aren't always selling out. Votes do not correlate to sales, again. Which is how their shirts could both sell out and be voted up illegitimately.

And no two users (or one user, since they may as well be) have had the sheer number of non-sell-outs climb the charts as high as their non-sellouts do. So even the sales are questionable in their validity. As I said, everything about these two is fishy. Ignoring it doesn't change it.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
JadenKale wrote:I'm so sorry Ramy... I get your work and Seki's confused way too much to care at this point. You two are dating, and whether you live together or not, it matters not. You two have both said that you influence one another's work. To me, it's all the same. You two may as well be the entity SekiRamy, provided, of course, that isn't an insult to Japanese everywhere.

Loopy's next print after Life Renewed was Vincent. Between it listing on the reckoning charts and getting cut at midnight the following Monday, it sold approximately 27 shirts the whole week. It came in at 26th and ended at 23rd. That's not even the same scope on the numbers. Thus, why I didn't even refer to it.


You clearly missed the entire point of my statement. I didn't have a win, and therefore my shirt wasn't linked. Afterwards, it was linked twice in the same week, which is the week you were referencing as high sales. This has nothing to do with confusing our shirts. In the case of infinityloop, her life renewed picture was featured on the front page the week the van gogh one went up, and also made it into reckoning without a sellout.

And to add to that, there was recently (Muertocorrido) that did not come close to selling out, and still made it into reckoning.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:As I said, everything about these two is fishy. Ignoring it doesn't change it.


Ignoring logic when it's thrown in your face doesn't change it either. If you think this is so fishy, email Joel about it until you get a straight answer instead of bitching about it here.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:
And as a side note, your theory about my buying my own shirts in reckoning is possibly the dumbest I've heard from you yet. So I'm spending an extra $5 to make back $2 on each shirt? Good thinking, bud.


Also, I love anonymous PMs <3

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
lokklyn wrote:Okay, so you win $1000 + $2 for every shirt sold after the first day.
Then there are taxes to account for, which are going to suck. This is going to be around 40% after federal, state, self employment, medicare, and social security taxes - So you're not making $1k anymore. You're making $600 + residuals off a winning design.
After taxes are accounted for, it seems economically infeasible to me to spend hundreds of dollars a week on your own designs.


I can say, after talking with some people who have won, they've been forgetful enough to pull aside the amount you need to hold in taxes. Their screw up, their problem.


But what about when the $2's start rollin' in?... That's the money maker. Every 500 shirts (if you include your precious taxes) is $600. If you take the shirts they have had printed (that doesn't include the line art Ramy did with Zenne since she shares in half of that, and not including the Atlas shirt from yesterday) The amount they've made for their shirts is about $8900 just in next day sales (pretax, of course... otherwise we're looking at $5k or so.) Then you include a whopping $9k between them just in prize winnings. ($5.4k after tax) That's not an amount to be balking at, no matter what the circumstances. $10.4k (and counting, I might add)... there's plenty of money to play with.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:If you were doing so, it would have the following benefits:

~Obviously you'd be making the $2 back, but more importantly


Making $2 back on a $15 sale, so a $13 loss each time this happens.


~you'd be that much closer to another week alive, meaning more wooters could be exposed to your shirt and buy it, eventually making you more money, and


Sure, but the ratio where this breaks even is six to one - that is, they have to expect more than six people to buy a shirt in the next week survived for each shirt they buy. Unless the reckoning totals are incredibly close, there's no way that kind of ratio makes sense.


~you'd potentially have the ability to make a new account during the purchase, which is basically the concern most of us have with you two given your pasts.


True, though if you're interested in acquiring new accounts, I'm probably more likely to target $10 shirts - a $10 loss is preferable to a $13 loss.


Though I agree, in general it makes more sense for you to create fakes on the $10 day. All I know is that you've apparently used an elaborate network of other people to advance your sales in other situations, so as to make it inconclusive whether you were screwing around or not. I see no reason you wouldn't have an equal cadre of people sectioned off to make sure every mediocre piece of koi you do sells better after than before.


A scam you lose $13 on each time you pull it is not a scam that anyone is going to continue for long. I just cannot see how the math works out such that a $13 loss on each shirt you buy is worthwhile to keep a shirt that would not otherwise survive Reckoning alive. If it's not otherwise going to survive Reckoning, it's probably not moving shirts at the better than 6:1 ratio you need to even break even. So it's a dumb scam.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:Also, I love anonymous PMs <3


Wait a second... I bought my own shirt from my own account after it got reckoned? Everything I do is just so fishy. It's almost like I got another voting account out of that purchase. Almost.

I must admit though, I didn't come up with this absolutely devious and brilliant scheme on my own. It was inspired by this:


Gotta give credit where it's due

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:Also, I love anonymous PMs <3


Dare I point out that buying the shirt to get the sellout on that wouldn't make ramyb a penny, since there's no per-shirt commission on the first day? That's a straight $10 loss you're seeing for ramyb there.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
PhilSandifer wrote:Dare I point out that buying the shirt to get the sellout on that wouldn't make ramyb a penny, since there's no per-shirt commission on the first day? That's a straight $10 loss you're seeing for ramyb there.


Dare I point out that if you were to go to his individual thread, the number sold, not to mention the wooter to blame for sellout, has changed? All I'm saying is this: Ramy insists it'd be crazy for him to buy his own shirt for $15. I get proof of him buying his own shirt for $15. Oops?

Phillip, you talk so much and understand so little. Please leave this to the people who know how woot works.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:Everything about them is suspicious. I think you're missing that.

Votes do not correlate to sales, but most of the nitwits here don't seem to get that, so I'm explaining how it is fishy even by their delusional standards. You see, they give the "sales speak for themselves" line over and over, how clearly if they're selling out, it means they aren't cheating. But they aren't always selling out. Votes do not correlate to sales, again. Which is how their shirts could both sell out and be voted up illegitimately.


Clearly votes don't translate to sales. That doesn't mean they don't correlate. The question is which way the error works. There are three possibilities.

1) Voters and buyers are different populations, and have substantially different tastes. This is possible, but given that Derby shirts wildly outperform M-R shirts, it seems clear that the Derby does at least have some correlation with purchasing.

2) People buy shirts they wouldn't vote for. Possible, but very strange - presumably if you like a shirt enough to spend $10 on it, you like it enough to click a small button. One assumes that if people are willing to spend money, they are reasonably likely to vote, assuming they vote at all.

3) People vote for shirts they wouldn't buy. This seems more likely. In both the alternate history Derby and the single line Derby, all three winning shirts reckoned out immediately. That suggests that, simply put, nobody much liked those Derbies. But since they were the Derbies that week, people voted anyway - their votes were just for the shirts they liked most, not for the shirts they would eventually buy.

I suspect this is normal behavior - people vote for shirts they won't buy because they in some way like the design. Certainly I've voted for shirts that have been printed and not picked up the shirt.

If #3 is correct - and I'd need to see a very good argument why it isn't - then votes do not translate into sales, but sales should still translate into votes.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:Dare I point out that if you were to go to his individual thread, the number sold, not to mention the wooter to blame for sellout, has changed? All I'm saying is this: Ramy insists it'd be crazy for him to buy his own shirt for $15. I get proof of him buying his own shirt for $15. Oops?

Phillip, you talk so much and understand so little. Please leave this to the people who know how woot works.


It would be moronic to buy the shirt to profit.

Far less moronic if, say, one wanted the shirt. Say, to wear. As clothing.

I don't know if getting a shirt printed gets you complimentary copies. If it didn't, I'd probably spend a bit of my $1000 on a few for myself. And if I only got one or two copies, I might well even still buy a few.

You're miles from a smoking gun, and given that you're trying to argue why it would make financial sense to engage in a scam business deal where one loses $13 on each transaction, you need a very, very solid bit of evidence to be remotely persuasive. Because on the face of it, losing $13 every shirt bought is irrational behavior.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
PhilSandifer wrote:It would be moronic to buy the shirt to profit.

Far less moronic if, say, one wanted the shirt. Say, to wear. As clothing.

I don't know if getting a shirt printed gets you complimentary copies. If it didn't, I'd probably spend a bit of my $1000 on a few for myself. And if I only got one or two copies, I might well even still buy a few.

You're miles from a smoking gun, and given that you're trying to argue why it would make financial sense to engage in a scam business deal where one loses $13 on each transaction, you need a very, very solid bit of evidence to be remotely persuasive. Because on the face of it, losing $13 every shirt bought is irrational behavior.


Given that you are both a moron and a fresh-faced wooter born just after these two-bit hacks got their first dual win, you sure do like talking about them and not much else.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:Given that you are both a moron and a fresh-faced wooter born just after these two-bit hacks got their first dual win, you sure do like talking about them and not much else.


And given that your past designs look like they were crapped out by MS Paint on a drunken bender, you sure do like talking about artistic standards,.

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
AdderXYU wrote:Dare I point out that if you were to go to his individual thread, the number sold, not to mention the wooter to blame for sellout, has changed?


The fact that it was initially him wasn't that weird to me eye. The fact that it suddenly changed? I'll admit, I'm plain ignorant on how most of these stats work--if there's a sellout on the first day, isn't the "wooter to blame" etched in stone? Wouldn't raymb not be able to change it even if he wanted to?

My head hurts. I wish Joel or someone up high would investigate and give some kind of authoritative statement on this issue, no matter the findings.

If raymb is innocent, then he deserves to have his name cleared from the only people who really have access to the information necessary to clear him. Seriously, if he's innocent, then he's making a _lot_ of money for woot and getting unfairly abused; woot has every reason to keep the guy around and not have him walk away in disgust.

If he's guilty, of course, he deserves to be permabanned like no one's business. I really am a Jeffersonian optimist, so I hope it's the former and not the latter.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
PhilSandifer wrote:And given that your past designs look like they were crapped out by MS Paint on a drunken bender, you sure do like talking about artistic standards,.


It's also worth noting that the clock in the corner shows 11:52PM, which is 10-13 hours from any possible reckoning if the shot was taken on Sunday night. Since there is only a reckoning recon up at the side, it is unlikely that the sales were made after finding out for sure that the shirt was to be reckoned.

It's a very simple point. Ramy made a statement that was proven wrong. It doesn't have much bearing on the state of the derby or what sort of shiftiness he's into. It just proves he lied about something stupid.

And to clear things up, when a shirt sells out, the "wooter to blame for sellout" changes with each passing purchase.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
IndependentVik wrote:The fact that it was initially him wasn't that weird to me eye. The fact that it suddenly changed? I'll admit, I'm plain ignorant on how most of these stats work--if there's a sellout on the first day, isn't the "wooter to blame" etched in stone? Wouldn't raymb not be able to change it even if he wanted to?


The "wooter to blame for sellout" changes on sellout shirts with each purchase after the first day until the very last purchase on the day that it's reckoned. I was 7 purchases from the end on the shirt (on the day that it got reckoned) because I wanted to get a keepsake of my first print (woot gives me 3 free ones, but I had promised them out to friends/family, so I didn't actually get one myself).

As for Joel looking into it, I have sent him several emails asking for this, and am just hoping for the best, honestly. I think we all are. Well, all except for Adder, maybe, who really seems to be reveling in all this drama he's creating.

AdderXYU wrote:It's also worth noting that the clock in the corner shows 11:52PM, which is 10-13 hours from any possible reckoning if the shot was taken on Sunday night. Since there is only a reckoning recon up at the side, it is unlikely that the sales were made after finding out for sure that the shirt was to be reckoned.

It's a very simple point. Ramy made a statement that was proven wrong. It doesn't have much bearing on the state of the derby or what sort of shiftiness he's into. It just proves he lied about something stupid.


Good try, but it wasn't a lie. Not sure if you've noticed, but reckoning rankings update automatically on the shirts, and my shirt was ranked 22nd at 11:52 PM on Sunday, which is the day this purchase was made, and it was too late for it not to be reckoned.

If we are going to talk about being proven wrong and lying, you're the one with the terrible record here. You've just been skirting around it and ignoring post after post that shows it.

And by the way, I forgot to get my 3 copies of my myth shirt when it went up for sale yesterday, so I'm going to go buy it now. If you hurry, you can go grab a screenshot of that too :D

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:T
As for Joel looking into it, I have sent him several emails asking for this, and am just hoping for the best, honestly. I think we all are. Well, all except for Adder, maybe, who really seems to be reveling in all this drama I've had circling up around me for years elsewhere and is finally coming to a head at woot.



Fixed for truth.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:Fixed for my own amusement.


Wow look, I can do it too!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:Wow look, I can do it too!


Except that I'm right and you're childish.

Saying I'm creating drama is ludicrous. Your drama existed before I even knew you did. I'm simply bringing it to the foreground, because while no fan-art schlep is more worthy than another, and fake accounts at deviantart only increase exposure, not monetary gain, there is a lot more riding on your shifty past at woot. But the drama... that was started long long ago, in a nerdy place no man should have to visit.

As for your purchase of your Atlas shirts, I'll be much more interested if someone sees your name on it a few weeks later.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
ramyb wrote:And by the way, I forgot to get my 3 copies of my myth shirt when it went up for sale yesterday, so I'm going to go buy it now. If you hurry, you can go grab a screenshot of that too :D


Nevermind, I took care of it for you

AdderXYU wrote:Saying I'm creating drama is ludicrous. Your drama existed before I even knew you did. I'm simply bringing it to the foreground, because while no fan-art schlep is more worthy than another, and fake accounts at deviantart only increase exposure, not monetary gain, there is a lot more riding on your shifty past at woot. But the drama... that was started long long ago, in a nerdy place no man should have to visit.


If you stopped posting, the drama would stop. You are not willing to try to get a resolution from woot. Instead, you choose to try to slander me and smear Rollerball (2002) all over my threads time and again. That's creating drama, when you do it for the sake of hurting me rather than finding a resolution. I'm not sure if you are deluded enough to think that you are doing this for noble causes, or if you just know that you're a stuck up chocolate starfish .

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
JadenKale wrote:I can say, after talking with some people who have won, they've been forgetful enough to pull aside the amount you need to hold in taxes. Their screw up, their problem.


But what about when the $2's start rollin' in?... That's the money maker. Every 500 shirts (if you include your precious taxes) is $600. If you take the shirts they have had printed (that doesn't include the line art Ramy did with Zenne since she shares in half of that, and not including the Atlas shirt from yesterday) The amount they've made for their shirts is about $8900 just in next day sales (pretax, of course... otherwise we're looking at $5k or so.) Then you include a whopping $9k between them just in prize winnings. ($5.4k after tax) That's not an amount to be balking at, no matter what the circumstances. $10.4k (and counting, I might add)... there's plenty of money to play with.


But if they're only winning by using fake accounts, as you guys have been proposing, they wouldn't have been able to make that money to play with in the first place, and could not have had all those fake accounts. Catch-22. Is the next theory that they spent all that money to begin with to make a mass of fake accounts before starting their derby takeover? I believe that would be ridiculous, since there would be no guarantee that their "scam" would work to begin with. And if you give that at least their first few wins were legitimate, why is it such a stretch that they would have continued popularity?

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
AdderXYU wrote:Dare I point out that if you were to go to his individual thread, the number sold, not to mention the wooter to blame for sellout, has changed? All I'm saying is this: Ramy insists it'd be crazy for him to buy his own shirt for $15. I get proof of him buying his own shirt for $15. Oops?

Phillip, you talk so much and understand so little. Please leave this to the people who know how woot works.


I think you misunderstand Ramy. He's saying it would be crazy for him to buy his own shirt MULTIPLE TIMES on FAKE ACCOUNTS, as you have been proposing.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
eHalcyon wrote:I think you misunderstand Ramy. He's saying it would be crazy for him to buy his own shirt MULTIPLE TIMES on FAKE ACCOUNTS, as you have been proposing.


I feel that the silliest part of the argument is that he is trying to say that he trapped me by showing that I purchased it, but this would actually be disproving his own theory and be a waste of $15 in his own scheme of things because it's on my account where I already made purchases and therefore could already vote. I just don't get it.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
eHalcyon wrote:But if they're only winning by using fake accounts, as you guys have been proposing, they wouldn't have been able to make that money to play with in the first place, and could not have had all those fake accounts. Catch-22. Is the next theory that they spent all that money to begin with to make a mass of fake accounts before starting their derby takeover? I believe that would be ridiculous, since there would be no guarantee that their "scam" would work to begin with. And if you give that at least their first few wins were legitimate, why is it such a stretch that they would have continued popularity?


They scammed anime cons before woot (as well as DeviantArt, but that's free). That costs money for tables and admission, and has a much smaller potential turnaround. It is not at all difficult for me to believe that they'd invest a little more for a harder to trace method of making consistent easy money.

It's also worth noting that both of them stuck around these parts for a while before making shirts. Seki's account was before shirt.woot even existed (which in turn was right around her DA account juicing days), while Ramy was here since september before starting to submit two months later. There's enough of a timeline for them to have plotted it, especially following up a successful con-raid. Fake accounts at woot is an investment for future riches, and as is evidenced here, if he was ever "driven off" or even banned by woot, like seki was from DA, he'd be able to use his "poor me" act to get the sheep somewhere else to support him.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
AdderXYU wrote:They scammed anime cons before woot (as well as DeviantArt, but that's free). That costs money for tables and admission, and has a much smaller potential turnaround. It is not at all difficult for me to believe that they'd invest a little more for a harder to trace method of making consistent easy money.

It's also worth noting that both of them stuck around these parts for a while before making shirts. Seki's account was before shirt.woot even existed (which in turn was right around her DA account juicing days), while Ramy was here since september before starting to submit two months later. There's enough of a timeline for them to have plotted it, especially following up a successful con-raid


Except the convention stuff remains without hard evidence. And I may be misreading this, but by linking Seki's join date with her "juicing days", it seems like you're implying that she might have created a bunch of extra accounts on woot at the same time as on DA. But since it was before shirt.woot began, that wouldn't make any sense.

Also, do the conventions really have so little turn-around? From what I've read by all the non-woot accusers, it sounds like having those extra tables is a big bonus, well worth the investment, and if it wasn't against the rules, everyone would be doing it, which is why people are so angry. Sounds pretty low risk, whereas on woot, the risk would be much greater. You'd have to spend well over a thousand dollars in the first place to guarantee a win, and then if the "winning" design is an absolute flop in sales, the jig is up. Financially stupid, and an all-around bad move if you're trying to scam people. It doesn't work if everyone knows you cheated.

Or is it also suspicious when their shirts sell well? I think I saw that argument somewhere.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

SarahPants5


quality posts: 6 Private Messages SarahPants5
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Going off-topic...(and by doing that, going back ON-TOPIC again...hehe) I'm gonna say I wouldn't want to wear this because someone would ask me which anime it's from, and I'm done with that scene...;P

Having stumbled upon the shirt that contains the huge debate from the derby comments section, I gotta say...this bloodbath seems so petty, and vicious. I get Adder's argument, even if he's mean about it, and I like the artist's work a lot of the time and do hope this drama doesn't drive them away from woot. I hope Woot takes some sort of action since there are some serious accusations being flung about, and if anything, it's just leaving a horrible taste in my mouth when I'm browsing the forums.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
SarahPants5 wrote:Going off-topic...(and by doing that, going back ON-TOPIC again...hehe) I'm gonna say I wouldn't want to wear this because someone would ask me which anime it's from, and I'm done with that scene...;P

Having stumbled upon the shirt that contains the huge debate from the derby comments section, I gotta say...this bloodbath seems so petty, and vicious. I get Adder's argument, even if he's mean about it, and I like the artist's work a lot of the time and do hope this drama doesn't drive them away from woot. I hope Woot takes some sort of action since there are some serious accusations being flung about, and if anything, it's just leaving a horrible taste in my mouth when I'm browsing the forums.


I'm all for Woot taking some sort of action because I'm definitely sick of all of this. This whole argument stemmed from the fact that I said that I was going to have my shirt taken down to stop the drama, and apparently that was an issue too because everything I do is fishy. Until woot does something, I'm not going to sit around idly while Adder throws garbage in my face for his own entertainment. I hope an end is put to it soon, but am also prepared to defend myself if necessary.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
ramyb wrote:I'm all for Woot taking some sort of action because I'm definitely sick of all of this. This whole argument stemmed from the fact that I said that I was going to have my shirt taken down to stop the drama, and apparently that was an issue too because everything I do is fishy. Until woot does something, I'm not going to sit around idly while Adder throws garbage in my face for his own entertainment. I hope an end is put to it soon, but am also prepared to defend myself if necessary.


Now, this would be great if my arguments didn't stem from self admitted fact.

Ladies and gentlemen, Ramyb, longtime con-goer and presumably familiar with their rules, admits his work was on a table it didn't belong on:

ramyb wrote:I had typed out a full response to this, then mozilla died on me- damn you mozilla. Anyway, I don't know how familiar you are with the way the artist's alley was set up in this convention, but the tables in Y were added for people on the wait list. The girl in the pictures is a friend of mine who missed table registration and went on the wait list, but the convention opened up more tables than they had planned to (they were added along all the back walls and also several new islands were added), so the convention offered her 2 tables instead of the 1 she had planned for. She complained to me during setup that her tables looked empty, so I gave her a few of my prints (six, I believe, the 4 circled as well as two others), to fill in the gaps. When the investigation with the staff and lawyers were happening, this came up and the staff didn't like it, so she stopped selling those pictures. If you are really so familiar with me as you seem to think you are, it should be no problem for you to pick out which of the prints in the picture are mine.

Just to quote from the journal that you have been so avidly following and pushing others to read:
"I see some people spreading information that there's a legitimate 3rd artist operating in island Y. The argument could go both ways, and either spells bad news for the opposition...If there is a 3rd artist present, then she has no business selling work that belongs to another artist, consent given or not"

(As a sidenote, I believe that the term "the opposition" should be indicative of the fact that there's a personal vendetta involved)


And his girlfriend admits that she was banned from DeviantArt.

sekiyoku wrote:I'm certainly not going to deny that. It's something that I don't like to talk about, but it happened, and I'm not proud of it. It was a while ago and a spur of the moment bad decision. However, I tried to return to the site only once, about a year later, because I wondered how stringent they were going to be with the ban. I didn't specifically state who I was, but I didn't try to hide it either; in fact, Ramy openly said that I was his girlfriend.


It's, perhaps, worth noting that Ramy recalls it as a matter of months, which is something seeing as how he didn't know why she was banned at all a day earlier

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
ramyb wrote:*ramyb's explanation of how some of the stats worked*

As for Joel looking into it, I have sent him several emails asking for this, and am just hoping for the best, honestly. I think we all are. Well, all except for Adder, maybe, who really seems to be reveling in all this drama he's creating.


Hey, man, I appreciate your clearing up the "wooter to blame" stat for me. Honestly, all of the numbers being thrown around, it's confusing as all get-out.

I really hope you're innocent. If you weren't, it would make my shirt wooting life easier, b/c I'm not particularly a fan of your designs; however, I think wishing someone guilty of something just because I dislike their art would be beyond petty. And yea, the past drama, some of it strikes me as fishy, but most of it also strikes me as inconclusive. I know people always say where there's smoke there's fire, and maybe I'm an old-fashioned sap this way, but I tend to believe in people until they prove me wrong.

I guess this next part of my post is to Adder. Not sure if he'll reply, but here goes. Look, if you're right, and it comes out that raymb really IS doing all of the things you're saying he's doing, I will personally create a new thread in the forums telling everyone that I was a foolish, naive sap and that I will think twice before ever disagreeing with you again (not that I wouldn't ever disagree, mind, but that I'd mull over it over, keeping in mind you were right and I was wrong on this topic).

That being said, what happens if Joel comes out, reviews the logs and says that the IP addresses checked out? That there were no mass purchases of shirts sent to a few snail mail addresses using multiple accounts? Will you apologize to raymb?

The way you're sounding these days, I don't think you would. I don't think Joel's word would be good enough for you. I know, I know, you could post up an image of "yay broccoli" for lulz, but my point is, would _anything_ make you drop your accusations, short of the Almighty himself stepping off his throne and telling you that raymb hasn't been cheating the derbies?

I just hope your desire for justice for all the artists, which is most admirable, hasn't clouded you to the possibility that you might be wrong. And if you are wrong, you've caused a lot of heartache for a guy whose only fault was submitting art that you really, really hate to a design contest on the internet.

EDIT: ramyb, not raymb! I just cannot get that username right no matter how many times I comment on this drama.

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb

Edit- I'd rather you just respond to the post above instead of mine for now, so I'll clear out this room

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84

Meh. post removed.

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
PhilSandifer wrote:A scam you lose $13 on each time you pull it is not a scam that anyone is going to continue for long. I just cannot see how the math works out such that a $13 loss on each shirt you buy is worthwhile to keep a shirt that would not otherwise survive Reckoning alive. If it's not otherwise going to survive Reckoning, it's probably not moving shirts at the better than 6:1 ratio you need to even break even. So it's a dumb scam.


I cannot see any way that this could be considered a scam, even if it were true. The reckoning is determined by sales. That's it. Anyone who's in the reckoning could stay in the reckoning by buying enough of their own shirts. This is available equally to all artists involved, though it's gonna be pretty damned expensive in the long run. I'm positive that lots of artists who were listed at 20th place, just above or just below, have bought some of their shirts in hopes of staying around one more week. Why shouldn't they? The shirts are there, for sale. The other artists in the reckoning can avail themselves of the same technique if they want to stay bad enough. I don't see any ethical problem in this at all. Even if they have to create new accounts to do so- if the accounts aren't bought for voting purposes, then so what?

lokklyn


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lokklyn
JadenKale wrote:I can say, after talking with some people who have won, they've been forgetful enough to pull aside the amount you need to hold in taxes. Their screw up, their problem.

That's not an amount to be balking at, no matter what the circumstances. $10.4k (and counting, I might add)... there's plenty of money to play with.

My precious taxes? :o that's an interesting way to put it. I'm just saying, if they don't share their funds, it's not going to be $10k each, post-taxes. I don't care enough about being an internet detective to look at the sales of all their shirts individually, but, if you were to divide this number in half again (let's assume that they're equally successful, which I don't think is the case): $5k doesn't seem like that much anymore. That can buy you 300-something shirts, IF you want to spend all of your earnings.
My point is that this particular conspiracy theory seems a little far-fetched.

I'm not saying they -aren't- making a lot of money (well, considerably less after fees are accounted for); I'm just saying for the purpose of staying in the game, I don't think that two intelligent people would want to lose money in such a silly way.

Topspin14


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Topspin14
ramyb wrote:I'm all for Woot taking some sort of action because I'm definitely sick of all of this. This whole argument stemmed from the fact that I said that I was going to have my shirt taken down to stop the drama, and apparently that was an issue too because everything I do is fishy. Until woot does something, I'm not going to sit around idly while Adder throws garbage in my face for his own entertainment. I hope an end is put to it soon, but am also prepared to defend myself if necessary.


Woot won't conduct an investigation and announce it because if they do, and they find out what Ramy and Seki did, they'll open themselves up to a class action lawsuit (of course Ramy and co would get sued and probably go to jail for fraud but that is another matter). They won't do that. The only way they could do it would be to hire lawyers to do it. If the investigation is in anticipation of litigation, then Woot's findings would be privileged, and they could ban the violators without comment. The point though is that any investigation would be expensive and dangerous for Woot...so the easiest thing is to do nothing.

Second, I assume (as anime convention dorks) that Ramy and Seki two are familiar with IP addresses and using proxies and having friends help them so I really doubt an investigation would uncover much that would be conclusive.

Third, any investigation would probably uncover lots of little acts of juicing on the part of other artists...then Woot has to figure out how to deal with them as well.

Actually, the best way to figure this out would be to file a class action in Federal Court against RamyB and Seki and Woot and then through discovery, request all of Woot's data regarding the voting. Then you'd be able to conduct your own investigation.

Of course the huge downside is that if you are right you'd probably take down shirt.woot and really screw Woot over royally. The problem is that in this situation Ramy and Seki are poor students. You'd bankrupt them but get very little yourself. Any lawyer who took this case would insist that you sue Woot as well because of Woot's deep pockets.

Of course if you were wrong and Ramy and Seki are innocent you'd have wasted a lot of money and time so this is unlikely to happen either...

End Result: We'll never know. But I wouldn't be surprised if Ramy and Seki disappeared at some point.

skibbereengirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skibbereengirl
Topspin14 wrote:Woot won't conduct an investigation and announce it because if they do, and they find out what Ramy and Seki did, they'll open themselves up to a class action lawsuit (of course Ramy and co would get sued and probably go to jail for fraud but that is another matter). They won't do that. The only way they could do it would be to hire lawyers to do it. If the investigation is in anticipation of litigation, then Woot's findings would be privileged, and they could ban the violators without comment. The point though is that any investigation would be expensive and dangerous for Woot...so the easiest thing is to do nothing.

Second, I assume (as anime convention dorks) that Ramy and Seki two are familiar with IP addresses and using proxies and having friends help them so I really doubt an investigation would uncover much that would be conclusive.

Third, any investigation would probably uncover lots of little acts of juicing on the part of other artists...then Woot has to figure out how to deal with them as well.

Actually, the best way to figure this out would be to file a class action in Federal Court against RamyB and Seki and Woot and then through discovery, request all of Woot's data regarding the voting. Then you'd be able to conduct your own investigation.

Of course the huge downside is that if you are right you'd probably take down shirt.woot and really screw Woot over royally. The problem is that in this situation Ramy and Seki are poor students. You'd bankrupt them but get very little yourself. Any lawyer who took this case would insist that you sue Woot as well because of Woot's deep pockets.

Of course if you were wrong and Ramy and Seki are innocent you'd have wasted a lot of money and time so this is unlikely to happen either...

End Result: We'll never know. But I wouldn't be surprised if Ramy and Seki disappeared at some point.


I think somebody should start writing the screenplay for this drama.

brizday


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizday
PhilSandifer wrote:And given that your past designs look like they were crapped out by MS Paint on a drunken bender, you sure do like talking about artistic standards,.


Ok, this? Made me laugh REALLY hard.

ladyshiva


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ladyshiva

I'm really sorry that everyone and their sour grapes has forced you to remove this entry from the derby. This is the design I was most looking forward to seeing again. All of these conspiracy theories are just beyond the pale. People are such children.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
IndependentVik wrote:
I guess this next part of my post is to Adder. Not sure if he'll reply, but here goes. Look, if you're right, and it comes out that raymb really IS doing all of the things you're saying he's doing, I will personally create a new thread in the forums telling everyone that I was a foolish, naive sap and that I will think twice before ever disagreeing with you again (not that I wouldn't ever disagree, mind, but that I'd mull over it over, keeping in mind you were right and I was wrong on this topic).

That being said, what happens if Joel comes out, reviews the logs and says that the IP addresses checked out? That there were no mass purchases of shirts sent to a few snail mail addresses using multiple accounts? Will you apologize to raymb?

The way you're sounding these days, I don't think you would. I don't think Joel's word would be good enough for you. I know, I know, you could post up an image of "yay broccoli" for lulz, but my point is, would _anything_ make you drop your accusations, short of the Almighty himself stepping off his throne and telling you that raymb hasn't been cheating the derbies?

I just hope your desire for justice for all the artists, which is most admirable, hasn't clouded you to the possibility that you might be wrong. And if you are wrong, you've caused a lot of heartache for a guy whose only fault was submitting art that you really, really hate to a design contest on the internet.

EDIT: ramyb, not raymb! I just cannot get that username right no matter how many times I comment on this drama.


-Starting a forum topic would be stupid of you. I enjoy being right, but I like results, not stupid human tricks of self-immolation.

-I won't apologize to Ramy because I am justified in being suspicious. I was against both of them before anyone came forward about possible cheating, and a clearing of guilt won't make me suddenly see the light. OH MY, SUDDENLY THIS HACKERY IS JUSTIFIED BECAUSE ITS ALL MORONS VOTING, NOT CHEATING!

-Joel will never do a thorough enough search to be conclusive, just like the Otakon instance was never conclusive. Joel won't even fix an alleged glitch where people can tell what's printing before it does. He is about band-aids, not stitches... pills, not cures. The difference is, while Otakon stated that evidence was inconclusive, yet still promised to do something, woot will, like with broccoli, and like they planned to do with Dirty Job until Iron Maiden was brought in, insist that nothing is wrong, even if they are scrambling to fix it on the other side. Which they won't. Again, there was a lovely thread last spring where Jimiyo admitted to rigging the hotness with multiple accounts, to prove the system was broken. Woot didn't change voting then, and they won't change voting now, and while they fixed the hotness bug, they insisted there was no proof that it could be exploited, even though jimi had just exploited it that week. They gave no chastisement for the multiple accounts. They'd rather ignore it for the sake of a false democracy than change the vote scheme and quell these sorts of rumors forever. And again, this is not a two-person problem. It is the norm for single users to have multiple woot accounts. Yet woot refuses to do a thing about it, because it's either be fair, or have a full democracy. if it's not ramy and seki, it doesn't mean those people aren't out there. Do you really think that seeing how much effort woot has put in to stopping this round, other people won't start hundreds of fake accounts if ramiyoku haven't?

-i understand the possibility that I might be wrong. But what you people don't understand is that I am simply building off a series of questionable events that already happened. If a chicken lays an egg twice, you can presume it will happen a third time. Any grief I caused, whether valid or not, stems from the table issue at otakon, which, whether premeditated or not, is proven by the kid's own words one post above yours. It stems from his girlfriend rigging DeviantArt in her favor, again proven by her own words AND his. I have no sympathy... they dug their hole and should expect scrutiny. They are alleged premeds, after all... those are smart right?

And really, we're talking justice for all artists. I'll let you choose-your-own-pithy-comment on that one.

fiire


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fiire
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Wow. this is ridiculous. I came on to check the derby and found that this was gone and I'm disappointed.

I'm a first time poster, but I gotta say that I like Seki's and Ramyb's style. I'm indeed one of those new wooters people complain about, but i can't help it if thats my style and you think it inhales sharply and creates suction. You're entitled to your own opinion and I'm entitled to mine. No offense to Adder, but i would feel pretentious wearing a face of Van Gogh with an eyepatch. A lot of designs feel emo and cluttered to me and just don't resonate the same way, although i did like 'nevermore' and 'wait up...best friend'.

I've been wearing 'easy optimism,'grim optimism' and 'wonderful day' around and people often smile and comment on them. 'Epic Begins' doesn't get much attention from girls' but all the guys get it. I actually even saw a friend around campus wearing 'Defrost,' so it's either a small world or maybe people LIKE their designs, God forbid.

I feel like your time would be better invested designing other things and being an artist. There are other ways to put your prints out there besides woot in the worst case scenario if you have a following that loyal. If you want the fame and the buck, try designing something that smells like ramyb and seki and see how it does. Maybe woot is being gentrified by a population of tasteless shallow people with disposable income who don't understand true art, but hey, don't hate the player, hate the game.

The general assumption is that young girls go for these designs, so maybe they're fixing the vote with their friends. After all, who has a larger pool of friends and acquaintances than your average myspace surfing, facebooking whoring, twittering teenager? Word of mouth is a powerful tool and the artsy fartsy graphics design major who would love to fix their votes and flames on woot about it, probably has too many enemies to make much friends.

Bottom-Line: If this in fact survived the derby, I would have definitely bought one. I have a black cat and I like the anime-style. 'Greedy pirates' and 'swelled up head' creep the hell out of me. Sue me.

Copo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Copo
AdderXYU wrote:-Starting a forum topic would be stupid of you. I enjoy being right, but I like results, not stupid human tricks of self-immolation.

-I won't apologize to Ramy because I am justified in being suspicious. I was against both of them before anyone came forward about possible cheating, and a clearing of guilt won't make me suddenly see the light. OH MY, SUDDENLY THIS HACKERY IS JUSTIFIED BECAUSE ITS ALL MORONS VOTING, NOT CHEATING!

-Joel will never do a thorough enough search to be conclusive, just like the Otakon instance was never conclusive. Joel won't even fix an alleged glitch where people can tell what's printing before it does. He is about band-aids, not stitches... pills, not cures. The difference is, while Otakon stated that evidence was inconclusive, yet still promised to do something, woot will, like with broccoli, and like they planned to do with Dirty Job until Iron Maiden was brought in, insist that nothing is wrong, even if they are scrambling to fix it on the other side. Which they won't. Again, there was a lovely thread last spring where Jimiyo admitted to rigging the hotness with multiple accounts, to prove the system was broken. Woot didn't change voting then, and they won't change voting now, and while they fixed the hotness bug, they insisted there was no proof that it could be exploited, even though jimi had just exploited it that week. They gave no chastisement for the multiple accounts. They'd rather ignore it for the sake of a false democracy than change the vote scheme and quell these sorts of rumors forever. And again, this is not a two-person problem. It is the norm for single users to have multiple woot accounts. Yet woot refuses to do a thing about it, because it's either be fair, or have a full democracy. if it's not ramy and seki, it doesn't mean those people aren't out there. Do you really think that seeing how much effort woot has put in to stopping this round, other people won't start hundreds of fake accounts if ramiyoku haven't?

-i understand the possibility that I might be wrong. But what you people don't understand is that I am simply building off a series of questionable events that already happened. If a chicken lays an egg twice, you can presume it will happen a third time. Any grief I caused, whether valid or not, stems from the table issue at otakon, which, whether premeditated or not, is proven by the kid's own words one post above yours. It stems from his girlfriend rigging DeviantArt in her favor, again proven by her own words AND his. I have no sympathy... they dug their hole and should expect scrutiny. They are alleged premeds, after all... those are smart right?

And really, we're talking justice for all artists. I'll let you choose-your-own-pithy-comment on that one.


OOHHH!! I have two accounts!!

ramyb


quality posts: 20 Private Messages ramyb
AdderXYU wrote:I won't apologize to Ramy because I am justified in being suspicious. I was against both of them before anyone came forward about possible cheating, and a clearing of guilt won't make me suddenly see the light. OH MY, SUDDENLY THIS HACKERY IS JUSTIFIED BECAUSE ITS ALL MORONS VOTING, NOT CHEATING!


I never told you not to be suspicious, but there's a difference between that and being outright nasty. You can apologize for being wrong without liking my designs, you know .

AdderXYU wrote:Joel will never do a thorough enough search to be conclusive


So if Joel posted today, saying that he did a thorough search and there was absolutely no way that any vote rigging occurred, it wouldn't be conclusive enough for you? Is it becoming clear to anyone but me that Adder has no interest in a resolution to this issue? It sounds to me like he's trying very hard to cling to an easy way to slap me in the face each time I post a picture, because it's gotten too boring for him to just say they all suck or look the same.

AdderXYU wrote:if it's not ramy and seki, it doesn't mean those people aren't out there. Do you really think that seeing how much effort woot has put in to stopping this round, other people won't start hundreds of fake accounts if ramiyoku haven't?


This is the worst kind of logic on so many levels. First of all, "if it's not ramy and seki," then they deserve an apology from you. But that aside, you have absolutely no idea if woot is doing anything right now. From the perspective of someone who is watching, based on the "evidence" you've been trying to provide, there's no way to say if there's anything actually going on. What if there actually isn't an issue, then someone spends $3000 to make 300 new accounts to ensure a win, only to find out that woot actually checks for these things and that the only reason nothing had happened is that there was no issue in the first place? It would be an extremely dumb risk to take. But if you are so confident, I encourage you to try it. Put your own money on the line, to prove that woot's system is wrong, just like Jimiyo did in the example you provided.

AdderXYU wrote:Any grief I caused, whether valid or not, stems from the table issue at otakon, which, whether premeditated or not, is proven by the kid's own words one post above yours. It stems from his girlfriend rigging DeviantArt in her favor, again proven by her own words AND his.


You quote me as though you are exposing a secret, but I sure do admit to a lot of things for someone who is involved in such sketchy dealings. Did you ever stop to think, for just a second, that maybe we were trying to bring the truth out for people? A wild thought it is, I know.

And while we are on the topic of quoting me:

ramyb wrote:I feel that the silliest part of the argument is that he is trying to say that he trapped me by showing that I purchased it, but this would actually be disproving his own theory and be a waste of $15 in his own scheme of things because it's on my account where I already made purchases and therefore could already vote. I just don't get it.



ramyb wrote:You clearly missed the entire point of my statement. I didn't have a win, and therefore my shirt wasn't linked. Afterwards, it was linked twice in the same week, which is the week you were referencing as high sales. This has nothing to do with confusing our shirts. In the case of infinityloop, her life renewed picture was featured on the front page the week the van gogh one went up, and also made it into reckoning without a sellout.

And to add to that, there was recently (Muertocorrido) that did not come close to selling out, and still made it into reckoning.


ramyb wrote:Ignoring logic when it's thrown in your face doesn't change it either. If you think this is so fishy, email Joel about it until you get a straight answer instead of bitching about it here.


You seem to have missed these the first time around. Feel free to respond at your leisure. Or, you can continue to bring up more BS claims unprovoked, and then argue that you aren't trying to stir up drama.

Oh, and just to clarify, I am most certainly not expecting an apology from you, because I know you're too proud for that. But if woot came out and made a statement that there was nothing going on, I'd rather appreciate it if you could at least leave me alone and not show your face on my threads anymore. Thanks.

Zenverse


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Zenverse

I personally like a lot of shirts that Ramyb and sekiyoku have posted as well as shirts from many other regular posting artists like tgentry, fablefire, JadenKale, infinityloop, jamescho, eHalcyon, Zenne, etc... I tend to like designs that are cutesy, anime, videogame, computer/math, or fantasy related because that is what I like. Because of that, sometimes I vote for them and sometimes I don't. I don't always like every design they create, but I like their styles.

I personally have bought the Overcrowded Elevator and Easy Optimism shirts because I thought they were novel ideas and were cute and funny. My boyfriend bought Grim optimism because it reminded him of Death from DiscWorld (although only cats and not squirrels could see him).

I think you guys just have to accept that these are the type of buyers shirt.woot is attracting as the woot sites are becoming more and more popular. (Especially with the addition of the kid sizes)

And Adder, did you ever consider that feeding this drama is actually counterproductive to your efforts? Everyone knows that controversy just makes something even more popular because you bring that much more attention to it. I'm also sure there are some people here who don't like the way you bash some shirts who may buy them just to spite you!

brizday


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizday
Zenverse wrote: I'm also sure there are some people here who don't like the way you bash some shirts who may buy them just to spite you!


Let's not let him think he is that powerful! He gets off on it. However, I can say I will never vote for or buy a shirt that is one of Adder's "collaborations."

Topspin14


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Topspin14
Zenverse wrote:I I'm also sure there are some people here who don't like the way you bash some shirts who may buy them just to spite you!


Actually I believe that Adder and Ramyb are one in the same.

Topspin14


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Topspin14
SaritaBeth wrote:KC, I have a question regarding your wife's love of the cat/dog one.


EDIT: MY b.

AshleyInTransit


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AshleyInTransit
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Disappointed upon removal. I like/d this shirt.

bellarific


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bellarific
brizday wrote: I can say I will never vote for or buy a shirt that is one of Adder's "collaborations."


That's really petty. Looks like you'll fit right in! :D

gr3ygoos3


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gr3ygoos3
Re: Rainy Day Fund


This shirt is amazing.... Why did he request removal? :-(

I have 2 favorite baseball teams. the Red Sox and ANYONE who beats the Yankees!!!!!!!

gr3ygoos3


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gr3ygoos3
Re: Rainy Day Fund


This shirt is amazing.... Why did he request removal? :-(

I have 2 favorite baseball teams. the Red Sox and ANYONE who beats the Yankees!!!!!!!

greg4734


quality posts: 3 Private Messages greg4734
Re: Rainy Day Fund


dude, i just wanted to let you know that i genually like your designs and i vote for them just about every week. this design is an exception, so i understand why you don't want it printed

if ramyb and seke did not have their designs on woot, and i could get them somewhere else for 10 bucks, i would definatly go out of my way to get them.

despite the evidence against you're fairness, i am usually not surprised as to why your entries make it into the fog. if one of you're, and you've had them, crappy designs makes it into the fog it is due to a lack of better designs in the derby.

no hatin

brizday


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizday
bellarific wrote:That's really petty. Looks like you'll fit right in! :D


How is it petty to make a decision to not support someone I don't respect?

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
AdderXYU wrote:
-I won't apologize to Ramy because I am justified in being suspicious. I was against both of them before anyone came forward about possible cheating, and a clearing of guilt won't make me suddenly see the light. OH MY, SUDDENLY THIS HACKERY IS JUSTIFIED BECAUSE ITS ALL MORONS VOTING, NOT CHEATING!


You know, you do realize that submitting artwork you hate isn't actually a moral transgression? It's isn't ethically wrong by any objective measure.

If they were cleared of derby rigging, then they'd just be designers that you think are hacks. I don't like their work, either, but I don't think that, by itself, makes them terrible human beings.

Roger Ebert didn't call for the imprisonment of Michael Bay after he saw 'Pearl Harbor', ya know. (Yes, yes, I know, somebody should've . . . )

I had a much longer response brewed up, but I killed it; I can see I'm not going to persuade you. I appreciate the lengthy response you gave me, though--it helped me to see where you're coming from, even if you condescendingly referred to me as one of "you people" (I get it--it's just your way).

It's funny, I agree with so many of your premises, but I can never quite follow you to the conclusions you reach.

I do wish woot had been more transparent on issues of controversy in the past, to give all of us more faith in them as an honest broker.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
brizday wrote:How is it petty to make a decision to not support someone I don't respect?


I'll support this comment. It's not petty to not support someone you don't respect. It doesn't even bother me since, at the end of the day, I know that I'm more respected than some nameless wooter who popped out of nowhere to get mad that I'd dare attack some shiny desu snorefest, both with opinion and evidence. I'm probably less respected too, but it's all a matter of being recognizable.

kitcatbrat


quality posts: 23 Private Messages kitcatbrat
AdderXYU wrote:I'll support this comment. It's not petty to not support someone you don't respect. It doesn't even bother me since, at the end of the day, I know that I'm more respected than some nameless wooter who popped out of nowhere to get mad that I'd dare attack some shiny desu snorefest, both with opinion and evidence. I'm probably less respected too, but it's all a matter of being recognizable.


wow....I'm exhausted from reading the posts in here. I should probably stop visiting the comments sections of these for a little while...

delilahmctrennel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages delilahmctrennel
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Wow this is sad, I was really hoping I would get to buy a couple prints of this shirt because it's the only design my friend has ever liked in a derby and her birthday is coming up. I can't believe people are being so hateful, can't anyone admit it's possible that there are people out there (for instance, me) who actually liked this shirt legitimately? Say I have bad taste or whatever but it's cute and I would have bought two.

TheLarrikin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TheLarrikin
delilahmctrennel wrote:Wow this is sad, I was really hoping I would get to buy a couple prints of this shirt because it's the only design my friend has ever liked in a derby and her birthday is coming up. I can't believe people are being so hateful, can't anyone admit it's possible that there are people out there (for instance, me) who actually liked this shirt legitimately? Say I have bad taste or whatever but it's cute and I would have bought two.


lulz u r ramyb dupe! lulz!!1!one!1!

God, I hope this conflict is taken care of. I've been in graphic design for a great number of years, and don't have much time, as far as entering derbies goes (full-time ga position). Ramyb's designs appeal to a great number of people, and in their style, his designs hold a great merit of their own. He even admits that this is a less-favoured design over his other entries. The thing is, people buy his stuff. It's good quality, from a strictly 'what is artwork' standpoint (crisp lines - vector, I'm sure; good grasp on spacial relations and colour theory; etc.).

The whole issue could be determined quite simply: are they shipping multiple orders, from multiple accounts, to a small number of real addresses? Because if Woot! is not, then there is no conspiracy.

Woot! would be opening themselves to lawsuit by _not_ looking into the issue, which is why I thoroughly believe it (the investigation) has been taken care of already. If they investigated and found a problem, it could not get them in legal trouble for divulging, because they would be releasing the found information, and they didn't partake in the alleged 'scam'. Do you think the anime-con got in trouble for ramyb's filling in of table(s - I can't remember if it was one or two)? Nah.

You see, this entire thing is absurd. If there were truly a case against them, yes, it would be ridiculous for some _person_ to investigate, but there are many other shirt sites who are, I'm sure, more than willing to absorb the temporary cost if it meant screwing Woot!. And you know what? It hasn't been done. Because there's no basis to the allegation. Because it's ridiculous.

My only hope is that no artist is discouraged enough to leave Woot! (I mean you, ramyb - and seki, too, though you're not the direct subject of this post).

That's all I'm going to say - I don't think I can make myself any more clear.

rellikeht


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rellikeht

I just read most of this thread and have come to the realization that it was a huge waste of time.

This thread reads like the perfect plot for a soap opera. We've got romance, cheating, resentment, sides being drawn and accusations being thrown all around. I wonder when the next episode of "The Woots of our lives" or "As the Woot turns" will be on?

Now we just need to wait for the wooter in a coma to wake up, weigh in on the situation, and pick a side.

skibbereengirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skibbereengirl
rellikeht wrote:I just read most of this thread and have come to the realization that it was a huge waste of time.

This thread reads like the perfect plot for a soap opera. We've got romance, cheating, resentment, sides being drawn and accusations being thrown all around. I wonder when the next episode of "The Woots of our lives" or "As the Woot turns" will be on?

Now we just need to wait for the wooter in a coma to wake up, weigh in on the situation, and pick a side.


I posted a couple of days ago that someone should start writing the screenplay for this drama. Sounds like you're the person to do it! Movie or soap opera, it has all the elements of a hit!

brizday


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizday
AdderXYU wrote:I'll support this comment. It's not petty to not support someone you don't respect. It doesn't even bother me since, at the end of the day, I know that I'm more respected than some nameless wooter who popped out of nowhere to get mad that I'd dare attack some shiny desu snorefest, both with opinion and evidence. I'm probably less respected too, but it's all a matter of being recognizable.


Oh, so the more vocal you are, the more respected? I didn't realize that. I guess I should start posting more. Then maybe I won't be so "nameless."

You're just a parody at this point. The angry (young? I have no idea...) man who has no real causes to protest so spends an inordinate amount of time trying to steamroll others with his opinions on a t-shirt website. Again, this isn't about the alleged cheating going on... it's about how unnecessarily rude you are to posters whose only transgression is having a viewpoint other than your own. Opinion =/= Fact. Learn it, live it. You'll be happier for it. And a lot more tolerable.

I'd say don't bother replying, at this point, I can predict your response... but I know you're incapable of that. So have at it.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
brizday wrote:Oh, so the more vocal you are, the more respected? I didn't realize that. I guess I should start posting more. Then maybe I won't be so "nameless."


I don't "respect" some guy who walks down the street past me. I know nothing about the guy. He didn't steal my wallet, but he didn't buy me a taco either. He's just some guy.

by the opposite token, our former President had the lowest approval rating since such things started being measured. However, given his publicity and his distinct message, you'd better believe more people respect him than that guy I passed on the street. Deserved or not.

It's not a matter of tooting my own horn. It's a matter of simple fact and how the world works.

olbilldoor


quality posts: 0 Private Messages olbilldoor
brizday wrote:Oh, so the more vocal you are, the more respected? I didn't realize that. I guess I should start posting more. Then maybe I won't be so "nameless."

You're just a parody at this point. The angry (young? I have no idea...) man who has no real causes to protest so spends an inordinate amount of time trying to steamroll others with his opinions on a t-shirt website. Again, this isn't about the alleged cheating going on... it's about how unnecessarily rude you are to posters whose only transgression is having a viewpoint other than your own. Opinion =/= Fact. Learn it, live it. You'll be happier for it. And a lot more tolerable.

I'd say don't bother replying, at this point, I can predict your response... but I know you're incapable of that. So have at it.


Agreed 100%. I've read all of these posts.... yeah, I'm that sick (literally, I'm home sick today) and wow, this drama is STUPID. Of course, admittedly, I now feel less intelligent after having read all this dribble but nonetheless this whole conspiracy theory is silly.

To the poster regarding "Grim Optimism", I almost bought the shirt for the same Pratchett-y reason (Ramyb, had you made the squirrel a cat or something, it would've been bril!).

BootsBoots


quality posts: 38 Private Messages BootsBoots
rellikeht wrote:I just read most of this thread and have come to the realization that it was a huge waste of time.

This thread reads like the perfect plot for a soap opera. We've got romance, cheating, resentment, sides being drawn and accusations being thrown all around. I wonder when the next episode of "The Woots of our lives" or "As the Woot turns" will be on?

Now we just need to wait for the wooter in a coma to wake up, weigh in on the situation, and pick a side.


I have just woken up from a coma, so I'll weigh in now. All just my personal opinion:

Are Ramy and Seki cheating with hundreds of accounts? No.

Have some of their fans from the internets come to woot to vote for them? Yes.

Is this a crime? No.

Does it suck? Yes.

Do these new fans love anime? Hell yes.

Does that suck? Yes.

Should people have brought the possible shady voting practices into question? Yes.

Should they go as far as to compile statistics that may or may not prove anything? No.

Why? It makes my head hurt.


AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
BootsBoots wrote:

Are Ramy and Seki cheating with hundreds of accounts? No.


this continues to neither be confirmed nor denied. Those comas are known for loss of facts, though

And I should point out again that this is not an issue of ramy and seki even. This is an issue woot needs to fix. Multiple accounts aren't some conspiracy theory. Even if the suspects aren't using them (and I would be shocked if they aren't gaming the system somehow), woot needs to step up and fix the ability for them to even factor in, no matter WHO uses them.

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
BootsBoots wrote:I have just woken up from a coma, so I'll weigh in now. All just my personal opinion:

Are Ramy and Seki cheating with hundreds of accounts? No.

Have some of their fans from the internets come to woot to vote for them? Yes.

Is this a crime? No.

Does it suck? Yes.

Do these new fans love anime? Hell yes.

Does that suck? Yes.

Should people have brought the possible shady voting practices into question? Yes.

Should they go as far as to compile statistics that may or may not prove anything? No.

Why? It makes my head hurt.


Boots, this sounds so incredible reasonable.

BootsBoots


quality posts: 38 Private Messages BootsBoots
AdderXYU wrote:
And I should point out again that this is not an issue of ramy and seki even. This is an issue woot needs to fix. Multiple accounts aren't some conspiracy theory. Even if the suspects aren't using them (and I would be shocked if they aren't gaming the system somehow), woot needs to step up and fix the ability for them to even factor in, no matter WHO uses them.


True. Very true. If anything comes from all this hooplah, I hope it's that Woot does something about the multiple account thing. It wont even bother me that I wont be able to use my extra 200 accounts anymore. They certainly haven't been doing ME any good.


BootsBoots


quality posts: 38 Private Messages BootsBoots
kwilder wrote:Boots, this sounds so incredible reasonable.


Reasonable is my middle name. Boots Reasonable 200-Account Boots!


AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
BootsBoots wrote:True. Very true. If anything comes from all this hooplah, I hope it's that Woot does something about the multiple account thing. It wont even bother me that I wont be able to use my extra 200 accounts anymore. They certainly haven't been doing ME any good.


I think this is what this entire drama boils down to for me:

~If the people in question ARE cheating, woot needs to change how derbies are won. It can't be by pure vote count, because that's easy to manipulate, and if these two are doing it, anyone can do it. It's a proven fact that most wooters have multiple accounts. Woot has known this for years, yet they have done nothing. Continuing the status quo is allowing woot to become a plutocracy, not a democracy, because whoever has the most credit cards, or can afford the most accounts in another way, will control the vote. We the users deserve to have this loophole closed.

~If the people in question ARE NOT cheating, and no one associated with them is either, woot still needs to change how derbies are won. Tgentry and Cho have vast shirt catalogs but different styles. They win often on solid composition and concept, but usually have different vote constituencies from design to design. The two in question, however, do not. They don't do different work, and their voting bloc is likely unchanging. Somehow, these two users have a voting constituency large enough to blast them, skyrocket them into the hotness at just the right times in huge droves. It is justifiably suspicious, and if that suspicion is found to be null and void (which I am sure woot will never look deeply enough into to find out), it is dramatic enough to bring about further concern for the shape of the derby. Because unlike some fads, the otaku will keep buying and buying, no matter how fed up the rest of us are. It WILL effect the reckoning charts, and it WILL effect the derby, and LOTS of designers WILL trickle out if they know that they have no chance against two powerhouse users that have their finger on the pulse of the incredibly-dopey part of the population. Restructuring the derby would be the only thing that would keep a majority of active wooters around in a world where Ramy and Seki are legitimately winning every derby, because while even someone like Kdeuce has vaguely different work, they do not. And in another couple months of continual ramy/seki fogs, it won't be a matter of conspiracy, it will be a matter of people being utterly fed up with this site, even if enough people continue to buy to garner sellouts.

Not to mention that even if they are cleared of charges, woot owes it to us to change that plutocracy thing, because if it's not an issue now (and I believe it was an issue even before these two came in with evidence of cheating) it certainly will become an issue someday.

BootsBoots


quality posts: 38 Private Messages BootsBoots
AdderXYU wrote:Good Stuff!


I have to say, though, that I think that continuing to talk about whether Ramy and Seki are gaming the system or not is pointless. If they are, then they probably aren't going to have their feelings hurt by all the talk. If they're not, then it's kind of mean. I'm glad that it was brought up, but it's been discussed. At length. Woot MUST have heard about it by now. I think the problem that a lot of people have is that the same type of designs are being printed a lot and there's not as much diversity as there used to be. So maybe the more important issue to discuss (if anything is worth discussing at all) is the fact that it seems like the system might need to be fixed so that we don't end up with the same type of designs getting printed all the time? I'm not wasting my breath making suggestions to Woot, though. That's what YOU'RE for!

Edit: I think I basically just reiterated what you were saying there with the second half of my post. Ah well... I agreed!


brizday


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizday
AdderXYU wrote:I don't "respect" some guy who walks down the street past me. I know nothing about the guy. He didn't steal my wallet, but he didn't buy me a taco either. He's just some guy.

by the opposite token, our former President had the lowest approval rating since such things started being measured. However, given his publicity and his distinct message, you'd better believe more people respect him than that guy I passed on the street. Deserved or not.

It's not a matter of tooting my own horn. It's a matter of simple fact and how the world works.


Ok, Adder... but why exactly are we comparing how "respected" I am (the nameless dude who didn't buy you a taco, I'm assuming) versus you (Dubya)?
What does the fact that I'm a "nobody" on Woot have to do with how I feel with regards to you and your behavior on this site? George Bush doesn't know who that nameless guy on the street is... that doesn't mean nameless guy can't have an opinion about Georgie's time in office.

Regardless, I disagree that people respect Bush because of his publicity. There are plenty of people out there with tons of publicity you'd be hard pressed to find anyone to admit respecting. George I believe is one of them. We also have Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Heidi and Spencer, Eliott Spitzer, etc. All extremely to fairly well known. All with little to no "respect."

So please, just because you frequently open your big mouth on here and everyone knows your name... doesn't mean jack.

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
BootsBoots wrote:I'm not wasting my breath making suggestions to Woot, though. That's what YOU'RE for!


I think the more people who express a level of discontent with the current voting system, the more likely it is to change.

After all, Woot would be idiots to change things just on one person's say-so, no matter how logical that person may be.

So, with that in mind: Woot, the current voting system is not democratic and is too easy to abuse with multiple accounts. Because it would be incredibly complicated (if not impossible) to police this, given the existence of multiple-wooter households, college dorms, and office buildings, I'd like to add my voice to the chorus hoping for a derby setup that isn't 100% determined by votes.

PhilSandifer


quality posts: 17 Private Messages PhilSandifer
AdderXYU wrote:The two in question, however, do not. They don't do different work, and their voting bloc is likely unchanging. Somehow, these two users have a voting constituency large enough to blast them, skyrocket them into the hotness at just the right times in huge droves. It is justifiably suspicious, and if that suspicion is found to be null and void (which I am sure woot will never look deeply enough into to find out), it is dramatic enough to bring about further concern for the shape of the derby. Because unlike some fads, the otaku will keep buying and buying, no matter how fed up the rest of us are.


For what it's worth, I have minimal interest in anime, and certainly little enough in "cute" anime (I like My Neighbor Totoro, and... erm... Serial Experiment: Lain isn't exactly cute, is it).

I have voted for some ramyb and sekiyoku shirts. I've also not voted for some. I quite liked Imposter in the Winter derby, for instance, but had no interest in Defrost. I loved Grim Optimism, but didn't really find Easy Optimism or Optimistic Courtship to my liking. I liked their tiger design for one continuous line, but I was totally uninterested in the phoenixy thing that also won.

In all of these cases I understand why the designs won. It is totally unsurprising to me that they won, because they're straightforward, wearable shirts. And while I vote for BootsBoots and Edgar's designs with great frequency, I understand that they are a more esoteric taste.

I think the accusation that they do the same thing - as each other, or over and over again - is unfair. Yes, they have an identifiable style - no more so than other Derby competitors I like though. But I see very little similar between Optimistic Courtship and Birth of the Moon, or between Overcrowded Elevator and Defrost. This seems to me a pretty dodgy complaint.

I do wish that more diverse designs got featured. On the other hand, given that I generally dislike the M-R designs, and clearly customers do too, I'd much rather see, say, Monday get used for an Editor's Choice from the Derby each week.

JustJiggles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JustJiggles

No one has brought up the fact that James Cho is a serial killer. I may have no evidence to back this claim up, but it is out there and now true.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
JustJiggles wrote:No one has brought up the fact that James Cho is a serial killer. I may have no evidence to back this claim up, but it is out there and now true.


You forget that there IS evidence against the other two. Evidence they even admit to.

JustJiggles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JustJiggles
AdderXYU wrote:You forget that there IS evidence against the other two. Evidence they even admit to.


But you do agree Mr. Cho is killing people in the Northeast, chopping off their feet and throwing them in to Puget Sound?

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
JustJiggles wrote:But you do agree Mr. Cho is killing people in the Northeast, chopping off their feet and throwing them in to Puget Sound?


If you could link me to some information that links him to such things, like there are many accounts linking ramy to shady business dealings and seki to hundreds of fake accounts, I am sure I would. Which is what you are too dumb to grasp

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
rellikeht wrote:

Now we just need to wait for the wooter in a coma to wake up, weigh in on the situation, and pick a side.

I don't know about a coma, but Cho showed up and made a positive comment about ramyb's least anime design. And Rob Glenn showed up at midnight with a print, but he didn't way which side he was on.

JustJiggles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JustJiggles
AdderXYU wrote:If you could link me to some information that links him to such things, like there are many accounts linking ramy to shady business dealings and seki to hundreds of fake accounts, I am sure I would. Which is what you are too dumb to grasp


You are a delight.

Soleq


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Soleq
Re: Rainy Day Fund


Wow, I read like the first few dozen comments when I saw that this one had been taken down. This was the only one in this derby that I wanted, and yes it's because I think it's cute. And yes I do have another few of the cute ones that I like. I vote for them because I like them, I buy them because I like them, I wear them because I like them. Seems like there is a lot of the green eyed monster going around. People are often successful because they are talented.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
JustJiggles wrote:No one has brought up the fact that James Cho is a serial killer. I may have no evidence to back this claim up, but it is out there and now true.

Are you Samoa Joe?

JustJiggles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JustJiggles
mjc613 wrote:Are you Samoa Joe?


Ah, no. I only have one account, which after reading this page and Adders brilliant logic, I guess is pretty rare....

...But not as rare as a serial killer with a foot fetish.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
JustJiggles wrote:Ah, no. I only have one account, which after reading this page and Adders brilliant logic, I guess is pretty rare....

...But not as rare as a serial killer with a foot fetish.


You don't believe in global warming, do you?

JustJiggles


quality posts: 0 Private Messages JustJiggles
AdderXYU wrote:You don't believe in global warming, do you?


I believe it's caused by the hot air coming from you, Alexis.

snarkygal


quality posts: 5 Private Messages snarkygal
JustJiggles wrote:I believe it's caused by the hot air coming from you, Alexis.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA Best post EVER!

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
Re: Rainy Day Fund


I thought of something last night, i would say the best evidence against their "juicing"....

Ramyb did a design that got an HM "genesis of the mind", very different from his usual stuff. got positive feedback from a number of people, including Cho. if he was "juicing", why wouldn't he ratchet up the votes on this one, being that it would be far less likely to get so much crapola from people, since it lacks any anime eyes, bunny rabbits, tortured/er food or chibi figures? it would make sense for him to use multiple accounts to get this one noticed, rather than the anime cat that he admits is not his best work by any definition. just a thought.

and I agree with Adder. Woot should be addressing this stuff. for exactly those reasons. a powerhouse couple shouldn't be able to dominate and take over the derbies, thus removing what made woot special. I loved being able to get different, unique, unusual shirts. I liked having different options on each day. even taking the "what is art, what is good" out of the equation..if each day of the weekend, every weekend, is the same style of stuff, that is disappointing. and I won't bother to come here anymore. there won't be a point.

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

kcman011


quality posts: 5 Private Messages kcman011
JustJiggles wrote:I believe it's caused by the hot air coming from you, Alexis.


LMAO! I just spat Coke all over my screen. Too damned funny!

honus87


quality posts: 3 Private Messages honus87
JustJiggles wrote:Ah, no. I only have one account, which after reading this page and Adders brilliant logic, I guess is pretty rare....

...But not as rare as a serial killer with a foot fetish.


I also only have one account. Now I feel like I have been missing out on power which is right there for the taking. Of course, if I had multiple accounts it would take me longer to change the color of my box, and I like me a colorful box.

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
honus87 wrote:I also only have one account. Now I feel like I have been missing out on power which is right there for the taking. Of course, if I had multiple accounts it would take me longer to change the color of my box, and I like me a colorful box.


you're gonna be waiting a looooong time to change the color on your box now.

SailorButterfly


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SailorButterfly
honus87 wrote:I also only have one account. Now I feel like I have been missing out on power which is right there for the taking. Of course, if I had multiple accounts it would take me longer to change the color of my box, and I like me a colorful box.


I only have one account, too. I didn't realize until recently how rare that apparently is. O.o

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Most Awesome Butterfly-Sailor Hybrid on Woot"

BlatantAlias


quality posts: 0 Private Messages BlatantAlias
Re: Rainy Day Fund


At one point in the early days of the derby my co-workers and I had around 12 accounts between 4 people... made it VERY easy to manipulate the hotness.

The longer shirt.woot has been around the number of people with large voting blocks has multiplied... I notice every week that certain artists (who shall remain nameless) are always at the top of the hotness for most of the first day only to eventually drop out of the fog by Monday... if that isn't an indication of someone having enough accounts to flood a design with votes then not being able to sustain it I don't know what is.

Oh and btw you don't need multiple credit cards to have multiple accounts.

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
BlatantAlias wrote:I notice every week that certain artists (who shall remain nameless) are always at the top of the hotness for most of the first day only to eventually drop out of the fog by Monday... if that isn't an indication of someone having enough accounts to flood a design with votes then not being able to sustain it I don't know what is.


I think that is much more likely to be an indication that the designers in general vote for those artists. The only designers I see who usually start out in the fog and often gradually fade are people like Edgar, Boots, and Tgentry. I most certainly don't suspect them of trying to rig the vote. However, they are very popular amongst the designers, and the designers are the people who seem to dominate the early voting. I'm just doubtful that anyone can grab the hotness very easily on Friday, when the hotness often has 40-50 votes for the leader, and 30 or more for the last place hotness design within an hour of the start. I guess it's possible to have that many accounts, but it must be hard to do. By Monday, there is a whole different group of voters, in my opinion, than those who voted on Friday and over the weekend.

cherry64


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cherry64
re: rainy day fund


Holy Hell. Drama. This reminds me why I rarely read the comments on these things.

I love this shirt. Mainly because I like cute cat shirts. If this artist and his gf have hit upon the magic of actually drawing what people want to buy instead of drawing to satisfy an artist's ego, no wonder they do so well.

I may be a newer wooter but I vote for what I like, regardless of who the artist is. And I only have one account for both me and my husband.

shirt.woot: 18
woot: 6
wine.woot: 3

bradyson


quality posts: 5 Private Messages bradyson
BlatantAlias wrote:At one point in the early days of the derby my co-workers and I had around 12 accounts between 4 people... made it VERY easy to manipulate the hotness.

The longer shirt.woot has been around the number of people with large voting blocks has multiplied... I notice every week that certain artists (who shall remain nameless) are always at the top of the hotness for most of the first day only to eventually drop out of the fog by Monday... if that isn't an indication of someone having enough accounts to flood a design with votes then not being able to sustain it I don't know what is.

Oh and btw you don't need multiple credit cards to have multiple accounts.



Its pretty obvious that I have only one voting account!
Tee-hee.

BlatantAlias


quality posts: 0 Private Messages BlatantAlias
Josephus wrote:I think that is much more likely to be an indication that the designers in general vote for those artists. The only designers I see who usually start out in the fog and often gradually fade are people like Edgar, Boots, and Tgentry. I most certainly don't suspect them of trying to rig the vote. However, they are very popular amongst the designers, and the designers are the people who seem to dominate the early voting. I'm just doubtful that anyone can grab the hotness very easily on Friday, when the hotness often has 40-50 votes for the leader, and 30 or more for the last place hotness design within an hour of the start. I guess it's possible to have that many accounts, but it must be hard to do. By Monday, there is a whole different group of voters, in my opinion, than those who voted on Friday and over the weekend.


I'm not saying all of the early votes are "fake" just that certain people seem to consistently get 30+ votes on every one of their entries in the first half hour... regardless of the quality of the design. I'm as supportive of my fellow designers as the next person, but find it hard to believe that the same group of designers gets enough votes to top the hotness every week.

There is nothing illegal with having multiple voting accounts. But, what I have been seeing the last couple derbies is very discouraging to me.

tgentry


quality posts: 111 Private Messages tgentry

Staff

BlatantAlias wrote:I'm not saying all of the early votes are "fake" just that certain people seem to consistently get 30+ votes on every one of their entries in the first half hour... regardless of the quality of the design. I'm as supportive of my fellow designers as the next person, but find it hard to believe that the same group of designers gets enough votes to top the hotness every week.

There is nothing illegal with having multiple voting accounts. But, what I have been seeing the last couple derbies is very discouraging to me.


I'm not sure if I'm included as one of those "some people" but if so woot's more than welcome to look over my vote tally to see if I'm one of those Megariggers you are speaking of. I can already tell you the answer is no. If I were I'd use up this massive amount of votes at the end of the derby, when I'm in a neck and neck for 4th. Since I don't have that kind of voting power (nor the will do so), I come in 4th (and 5th and 6th) a heck of a lot. I'm not about to invest the kind of time and money involved in getting the kind of votes it takes to win a derby. The only people that auto-vote for me that I know of are my Mom and Dad and my wife. Sometimes I can get my sister-in-law to swing one my way, though she has higher standards than my Mom, who will vote for everything I do. Personally I think I can win without having to cheat the system. I imagine most designers here have that same kind of pride. I feel like my designs speak for themselves, both the good and bad. I have a lot of designs (some that I spend many hours on and had very high hopes for) get less than 60 votes a derby.

I also see shirts getting 20-30 votes at the beginning of a derby and then immediately drop to almost nothing. It happens every week and it's obvious what's going on. However if a solid design is popular all throughout Friday then slides during the weekend, it's probably because other shirts (some of which are very good, as people put extra time into them) are coming in. Not to mention the voting tastes on the nights and weekend are completely different than the weekdays. I've had designs that do really well during working hours, but tank during nights and weekends. Likewise I've had some that do just the opposite. Just because a shirt slides during the weekend doesn't mean the person has "exhausted" his/her massive amount of extra accounts. More likely it means more and better competition has arrived and/or it just doesn't fit the tastes of the weekend crowd.

Sorry to the owner of this thread for going off topic on it.

SaritaBeth


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SaritaBeth
Re: Rainy Day Fund


I too only have one account. I considered greatly getting a second one for a few moments the day Draxx printed so I could get shirts for my best friend and her kids, but she snagged them the moment I showed her the shirt, just like I knew she would ahuhu. just as well, was a moment of weakness for a totally awesome shirt, but I like having just the one account. though I dig the idea of a purple box i saw mentioned.

I wonder with the 20-30 immediate votes thing, if maybe those people just have a bunch of friends/family who vote their stuff right away? or perhaps I am just being naive....o_o

and another Edgar gets printed:

Fiction vs. Non-Fiction

http://cameesa.com/buy/design/168/fiction-vs-non-fiction

wootcrazed


quality posts: 0 Private Messages wootcrazed
JadenKale wrote:I'm so sorry Ramy... I get your work and Seki's confused way too much to care at this point. You two are dating, and whether you live together or not, it matters not. You two have both said that you influence one another's work. To me, it's all the same. You two may as well be the entity SekiRamy, provided, of course, that isn't an insult to Japanese everywhere.

Loopy's next print after Life Renewed was Vincent. Between it listing on the reckoning charts and getting cut at midnight the following Monday, it sold approximately 27 shirts the whole week. It came in at 26th and ended at 23rd. That's not even the same scope on the numbers. Thus, why I didn't even refer to it.


Ramy has said they are both dating and live together.

jerroul


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jerroul

R and S have had designs I've loved, voted for, and purchased and ones that I have really hated as well. While the ones that place highly may not always be to my taste, I can always see why they were popular. Just as with my other favorite designers, like Boots Boots, TGentry, and Draxx, I am more often bemused with why a particular shirt didn't place as well as it deserved (in my selfish opinion), rather than puzzled by its good fortune. Consider this a plea for more good will and less negativity.

kdc67


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kdc67

I'm really sad you wanted this taken down. I don't understand what all this fighting is about. It's 1 out of 2 shirts I'd actually want in this second take derby.

rowanmikaio


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rowanmikaio

OK. Maybe some of you kids will get this. Most of you probably won't. However, it needs to be said. Sorry for showing my HP-fandom nerdiness.

MsScribe. Pottersginny.

Ramyb. Adder.

Just throwing that out there. Fake accounts don't always sing praises and glory. Ramyb and Sekiyoku are getting TONS of attention, and it's all because of Adder

I'd especially like to point out where Adder mentions that Ramyb and Sekiyoku had accounts months before they sold and therefore this was planned.
Don't get me wrong. I like their shirts. I've bought more than a few of them, and if they win, I'll probably buy a few more. However, I'm tired of seeing these threads. It's pretty ridiculous.

Shunsui


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Shunsui

2nd thread I decided to read and both contain this Adder guy flaming and starting Rollerball (2002).

Quit being jealous of others work and practice more.

elwayman02


quality posts: 2 Private Messages elwayman02
Shunsui wrote:2nd thread I decided to read and both contain this Adder guy flaming and starting Rollerball (2002).

Quit being jealous of others work and practice more.


ahuhu amen

majiksparkle


quality posts: 0 Private Messages majiksparkle

I think some of you are being absurd. Why?

I own almost all of Ramy's shirts. I vote when I feel like it and almost only vote for one or two shirts--yet I have voted for almost all of his. The squirrel/death design? Bought two--one for myself and one for my boyfriend.

My point? Just because some of you think it inhales sharply and creates suction and isn't up to your awesome standards doesn't mean others don't like it far better than your typical dreary tree design or "fine art on shirt" mockup.

Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it's too dark to read.

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