Re: The Art of Creation

saved

Pretty sweet looking. Nice job.

Re: The Art of Creation

quite nice. like a refreshing tea.

Re: The Art of Creation

I like your concept a whole lot on this one. I bet you were going for a more simplistic look (what I gathered from the side placement and the few buildings), but personally I would've loved to see a larger skyscape of buildings across the chest with the same watercolor effect dripping off all of them. I might've even preferred that full chest design I just described without the paintbrush as well. Of course that is just a personal preference and I still think you've come up with a very soothing and visually appealing piece of work.

this is your first design that i have actually like... very refreshing change from the animals/cutesy junk... keep it up and GMV

This is such an awesome design, +1

Re: The Art of Creation

"ooh, I think I'll do something flowing from something. That will make me look SUPER ORIGINAL. My clone and I NEVER do that!"

Funny how voters normally hate side placements, but yours is doing well. It must be the horrible flow of pen-stroke across the tummy of the shirt. Wooters LOVE questionable execution.

AdderXYU wrote:"ooh, I think I'll do something flowing from something. That will make me look SUPER ORIGINAL. My clone and I NEVER do that!"

Funny how voters normally hate side placements, but yours is doing well. It must be the horrible flow of pen-stroke across the tummy of the shirt. Wooters LOVE questionable execution.

You need more fiber in your diet.

krisrobinson wrote:You need more fiber in your diet.

and ramy needs more variety in his.

This is basically music is life. With less glow and more buildings.

AdderXYU wrote:Funny how voters normally hate side placements, but yours is doing well. It must be the horrible flow of pen-stroke across the tummy of the shirt. Wooters LOVE questionable execution.

Eh? When I was new here I heard that side placements were rare, so whenever one was submitted it was seen as fresh and exciting. But since then, I've found that side placements tend to do well.

eHalcyon wrote:Eh? When I was new here I heard that side placements were rare, so whenever one was submitted it was seen as fresh and exciting. But since then, I've found that side placements tend to do well.

As a design i really like it, and i don't even mind the side placement, but the color running across my belly turns me off.

I guess i'm more of a 'chest design' tee shirt wearer. Still very pretty.

eHalcyon wrote:Eh? When I was new here I heard that side placements were rare, so whenever one was submitted it was seen as fresh and exciting. But since then, I've found that side placements tend to do well.

Side placements will sometimes do well with the artistic crowd. But only if it comes with art.

Most side placements that win derbies are by people who don't know the meaning of the word

It goes like this:

"OH MY GOLLY, this is the best thing I've ever seen!"

"Yeah? I've seen this exact same concept done 100 times better, but not print"

"yeah, but I love this aspect!"

"that aspect was utilized on this far better piece"

"ah, but I don't like that"

"why not?"

"because this is better!"

"but it's not. not even objectively"

"I like it. shut up"

Re: The Art of Creation

I do have to admit, the brushstroke across the stomach turns me off a bit, but I like it overall. I like the side placement, but I'd love to see a future shirt with the design across the chest and then the design 'dripping' down over the stomach.

Anyway, That's my take!

re: the art of creation

Sometimes I think I know what your entry is going to look like even before you do. That could be said about a lot of artists I guess.

AdderXYU wrote:Side placements will sometimes do well with the artistic crowd. But only if it comes with art.

Most side placements that win derbies are by people who don't know the meaning of the word

It goes like this:

"OH MY GOLLY, this is the best thing I've ever seen!"

"Yeah? I've seen this exact same concept done 100 times better, but not print"

"yeah, but I love this aspect!"

"that aspect was utilized on this far better piece"

"ah, but I don't like that"

"why not?"

"because this is better!"

"but it's not. not even objectively"

"I like it. shut up"

The meaning of the word... "artistic"? Or "side placement"? I'm pretty sure most people know the latter...

I think the art (and by "art" I mean, in this case, the technical ability and aesthetic quality - I'm not getting into emotion or concept or all that jazz) on this one is alright. Nothing spectacular, but not terrible. I'm fond of the colour choices. My initial thought was just that I wouldn't really want to wear a building on my shirt that was nothing more than a building. Maybe if I was an architect or a civil engineer... but now that it's been pointed out, the way it trails over the stomach puts me off a little as well. And I don't really like the paint brush with no context.

So... are you retracting your "wooters normally hate side placements" statement? Because that's not what I've seen at all.

I'm not a fan of the placement. I'm cool with asymmetrical compositions, but this is unbalanced and I would feel weird wearing it. The colors are very appealing and though the concept isn't fresh and new, I feel like with some more work this could be dynamite.

spanishmel wrote:I'm not a fan of the placement. I'm cool with asymmetrical compositions, but this is unbalanced and I would feel weird wearing it. The colors are very appealing and though the concept isn't fresh and new, I feel like with some more work this could be dynamite.

Ahhh, yes, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for articulating it! I like the side placement but the way the trail goes all the way across the stomach just makes it feel unbalanced to me.

eHalcyon wrote:The meaning of the word... "artistic"? Or "side placement"? I'm pretty sure most people know the latter...

If you aren't smart enough to know which I meant, I've wasted a lot of time talking to you. But I suppose, to be fair, some of the people in question may not know either.

I think the art (and by "art" I mean, in this case, the technical ability and aesthetic quality - I'm not getting into emotion or concept or all that jazz) on this one is alright. Nothing spectacular, but not terrible. I'm fond of the colour choices. My initial thought was just that I wouldn't really want to wear a building on my shirt that was nothing more than a building. Maybe if I was an architect or a civil engineer... but now that it's been pointed out, the way it trails over the stomach puts me off a little as well. And I don't really like the paint brush with no context.

And no, it's not horrible comparatively, but it is exceedingly bland and exactly what anyone would expect the dude to do. And when that is the benchmark for quality, doing the same damn thing every time without ever being surprising or interesting, it is time to say "something here is wrong". Ramy can not win with the intellectual minds here because he cannot think outside any box. Even if that box was open and he could see outside it. He is a cliché.

So... are you retracting your "wooters normally hate side placements" statement? Because that's not what I've seen at all.

As always, "wooters" and "woot-users" are different. The Average Wooter only likes side placements when it's by The Generic Designer. Try and do anything attractive or intriguing, or have it executed properly without a smear across the tummy, and they will not vote. But do something mind-numbingly bad or bland, and they will come out of the woodwork to praise your unique placement or technique, even though plenty of people have done the same, and well, without the same reaction.

People SPECIFICALLY PRAISE the thing they hated before. As if they are voting for that, and not the same uninteresting, poor-performing "designer".

binkdrop wrote:I like your concept a whole lot on this one. I bet you were going for a more simplistic look (what I gathered from the side placement and the few buildings), but personally I would've loved to see a larger skyscape of buildings across the chest with the same watercolor effect dripping off all of them. I might've even preferred that full chest design I just described without the paintbrush as well. Of course that is just a personal preference and I still think you've come up with a very soothing and visually appealing piece of work.

Hey BinkDrop!

Did you do a design for this derby?
Let me know.
Meanwhile, you should check out mine "Hello-Seattle"
Let me know what you think

AdderXYU wrote:As always, "wooters" and "woot-users" are different. The Average Wooter only likes side placements when it's by The Generic Designer. Try and do anything attractive or intriguing, or have it executed properly without a smear across the tummy, and they will not vote. But do something mind-numbingly bad or bland, and they will come out of the woodwork to praise your unique placement or technique, even though plenty of people have done the same, and well, without the same reaction.

People SPECIFICALLY PRAISE the thing they hated before. As if they are voting for that, and not the same uninteresting, poor-performing "designer".

i have to agree with this. there are almost no side placement shirts that have lasted except for music is life and ramyb red fish blue fish shirt. boots' forget the moon shirt was brilliant in my opinion, and its long long gone. now you may say its counter productive to lump sekiyoku and ramyb together, but theyre designs are practically interchangable, and many wooters dont really know any distiction between the two. hell, when i was knew, i thought they were one person

there has been many great shirts with side placement throughout the derbies that ive seen where about half the comments on the thread were "i like the design but i dont like the placement"

Re: The Art of Creation

screw the placement or design, I love white shirts and will be purchasing this one if it prints. hah

re: the art of creation

If the "ramyb" name wasn't on this design, it'd have 6 votes right now...

Re: The Art of Creation

ughh, at least its not bunnies....

dpbowl842 wrote:screw the placement or design, I love white shirts and will be purchasing this one if it prints. hah

If that's all it takes, can't you just find an already printed white shirt you don't own yet?

AdderXYU wrote:If that's all it takes, can't you just find an already printed white shirt you don't own yet?

Will you send it to me in a woot bag for 10 bucks?

eHalcyon wrote:Eh? When I was new here I heard that side placements were rare, so whenever one was submitted it was seen as fresh and exciting. But since then, I've found that side placements tend to do well.

Except that realistically, this isn't a side placement. It's a centered placement. That pen/brush won't be off to the side but towards the center. So it'll be right across the belly or just below it.

dpbowl842 wrote:Will you send it to me in a woot bag for 10 bucks?

sure.

Send me a tenner, and I promise I will send you a white shirt, in a woot bag.

Re: The Art of Creation

I......really like this.

I'm a little disappointed ramyb, there should at least be one cute bunny in a window to make Adder happy!

mikenytola wrote:I'm a little disappointed ramyb, there should at least be one cute bunny in a window to make Adder happy!

He can never make Adder happy again. He's earned ADDER'S CONTEMPT!

For this achievement he can expect Adder to show up on any of his shirts that end up in the fog and nitpick each and every time!

This usually means the shirt will win; in part because past recipients of this prestigious award will vote for you out of spite.

Congrats Ramyb!

dpbowl842 wrote:screw the placement or design, I love white shirts and will be purchasing this one if it prints. hah

Interesting.

I kind of like the placement, don't specifically HATE the design (and quite prefer it to any other ramy i've seen), but I can't stand white shirts and will not purchase (nor vote for) this one.

Takes all kinds I suppose.

Re: The Art of Creation

It's not awful like "Listen to your Conscience" was, but it's bland. I really like the concept, and I actually like brush going across the middle. But the buildings themselves are nondescript and not very colorful, which creates the effect the the paintbrush is just creating a bunch of bluish blocks.

Simply put, while I don't hate the design, there are far more creative, visually vibrant entries in this derby that I'd prefer to see print.

DeadFrog wrote:He can never make Adder happy again. He's earned ADDER'S CONTEMPT!

For this achievement he can expect Adder to show up on any of his shirts that end up in the fog and nitpick each and every time!

This usually means the shirt will win; in part because past recipients of this prestigious award will vote for you out of spite.

Congrats Ramyb!

This cracked me up DF.

Re: The Art of Creation

Wow. This is pure awesome. I love it Ramyb!

The multiple accounts strike again.

DeadFrog wrote:He can never make Adder happy again. He's earned ADDER'S CONTEMPT!

For this achievement he can expect Adder to show up on any of his shirts that end up in the fog and nitpick each and every time!

This usually means the shirt will win; in part because past recipients of this prestigious award will vote for you out of spite.

Congrats Ramyb!

Which is reason enough for woot to stop making majority rule

I mean, honestly, if Deadfrog will vote for it, that's almost the same as saying it has no value ;)

jmmbell1987 wrote:It's not awful like "Listen to your Conscience" was, but it's bland. I really like the concept, and I actually like brush going across the middle. But the buildings themselves are nondescript and not very colorful, which creates the effect the the paintbrush is just creating a bunch of bluish blocks.

Simply put, while I don't hate the design, there are far more creative, visually vibrant entries in this derby that I'd prefer to see print.

I have to concur. I don't think it's particularly awful, but from a distance, I can see the buildings simply coming off as a blue smear. I'd certainly not want anyone invading my personal space simply to be able to discern what was printed on my t-shirt, so this gets a pass from me for the social anxiety factor, if nothing else!

AdderXYU wrote:Which is reason enough for woot to stop making majority rule

I mean, honestly, if Deadfrog will vote for it, that's almost the same as saying it has no value ;)

Hi Adder,

Did you ever read my PM?

And I officially want to bite something... I leave the house for one hour and he finds a way to not play nice with you...

I swear he is like a moth to flame when it comes to stirring up forum drama...

I am thinking a no comment ban if he can't say anything nice

WidowFrog wrote:Hi Adder,

Did you ever read my PM?

And I officially want to bite something... I leave the house for one hour and he finds a way to not play nice with you...

I swear he is like a moth to flame when it comes to stirring up forum drama...

I am thinking a no comment ban if he can't say anything nice

why bother? it's not like he cares about respect. Let him keep commenting. It shows his total lack of integrity, and his fans will eat that scaffolding up, since big bad Adder hates it. Oooh, that Adder. How dare he not like the shirt I want? My opinion is the best!

don't bother being his handler. No one's going to touch him. People defend users with even LESS integrity, so the fact that he can even execute anything means no one will ever care about what he says. He'll still do just as well or poorly. And every time he does something for a quick buck, people will rush and defend him for "ooh, he did that one decent one that time". If they do it for Ramy, they'll do it for him. There's no harm for him to let his true colors show. Again, even at ramy's slimiest, people are naive enough to think he's not. your husband could start submitting plagiarized copies of Threadless classics and admit it in the thread, and people would still comment "+1, I love it! So original!"

You're just covering your arse because you KNOW this time he said something that shows he's not a victim, and it can bite him in the behind. And that is where most of us keep our wallets.

marmls2m wrote:i have to agree with this. there are almost no side placement shirts that have lasted except for music is life and ramyb red fish blue fish shirt. boots' forget the moon shirt was brilliant in my opinion, and its long long gone. now you may say its counter productive to lump sekiyoku and ramyb together, but theyre designs are practically interchangable, and many wooters dont really know any distiction between the two. hell, when i was knew, i thought they were one person

there has been many great shirts with side placement throughout the derbies that ive seen where about half the comments on the thread were "i like the design but i dont like the placement"

I still think it's unfair to say that wooters OR woot users "hate" side placements unless the designs are generic. I've seen plenty of creative side placement designs do well, such as Mito's cactus horses (Mito, get them printed!). You could say that generic designs (side placement or not) do better, but side placements in general are not hated.

As for "I don't like the placement" comments, those appear on centered designs as well.

JadenKale wrote:Except that realistically, this isn't a side placement. It's a centered placement. That pen/brush won't be off to the side but towards the center. So it'll be right across the belly or just below it.

The majority of the design (the buildings) is to the side, which is why we call it "side placement", though technically you are correct - the best kind of correct*.

* Futurama reference!

eHalcyon wrote:I still think it's unfair to say that wooters OR woot users "hate" side placements unless the designs are generic. I've seen plenty of creative side placement designs do well, such as Mito's cactus horses (Mito, get them printed!). You could say that generic designs (side placement or not) do better, but side placements in general are not hated.

by that logic, Edgar and Drakxxx are the most successful woot artists.

Fact is that that doesn't sell or print often. It might do OK in the derby, but that is because there are some derby voters who care about design.

This is IN THE FOG, and dramatically so. Were Mito's horses? Not hardly, despite being way better than some of what was. Your argument isn't even using vaguely similar statistics

AdderXYU wrote:by that logic, Edgar and Drakxxx are the most successful woot artists.

Fact is that that doesn't sell or print often. It might do OK in the derby, but that is because there are some derby voters who care about design.

This is IN THE FOG, and dramatically so. Were Mito's horses? Not hardly, despite being way better than some of what was. Your argument isn't even using vaguely similar statistics

The point is simply that side placements aren't hated, like you initially stated. Or is top ten not popular?

eHalcyon wrote:The point is simply that side placements aren't hated, like you initially stated. Or is top ten not popular?

No. The point is that side prints are hated because they so rarely win. Yet this one is incredibly successful. If it prints, which of course it will, it will be an anomaly.

Tenth place is often a quarter of the votes of first... they drop exponentially once they aren't in the fog. You are trying to say that a piece which is 25-50% as popular as the winners is popular enough to explain why this is a winner. No other study except at the Halcyon Institute of Ridiculous Standards of Fairness would try to argue that.

You are comparing apples and oranges and you know it. This is already primed to win, unlike most tees like this which are submitted. You are trying to say that because a handful of shirts did hundreds of votes worse in the popularity polls, suddenly side prints are totally popular. They aren't. They rarely win, and more rarely sell well. Yet here's ramy with a design you admitted was boring, sweeping the hotness with a side print.

AdderXYU wrote:No. The point is that side prints are hated because they so rarely win. Yet this one is incredibly successful. If it prints, which of course it will, it will be an anomaly.

Tenth place is often a quarter of the votes of first... they drop exponentially once they aren't in the fog. You are trying to say that a piece which is 25-50% as popular as the winners is popular enough to explain why this is a winner. No other study except at the Halcyon Institute of Ridiculous Standards of Fairness would try to argue that.

You are comparing apples and oranges and you know it. This is already primed to win, unlike most tees like this which are submitted. You are trying to say that because a handful of shirts did hundreds of votes worse in the popularity polls, suddenly side prints are totally popular. They aren't. They rarely win, and more rarely sell well. Yet here's ramy with a design you admitted was boring, sweeping the hotness with a side print.

No. I'm not trying to explain anything. I was only disagreeing with your original assertion that side placements are hated. They are popular. Just because they don't always win doesn't make them unpopular. If popularity is determined solely by what prints, then ninjas and pirates aren't popular at all. We almost never see them print. Neither are trees or bird silhouettes. Sure, they've printed a few times, but it's not like they're coming up every week, or even every second week!

Please stop putting words in my mouth or imagining that I'm making vast sweeping statements of any kind. All I'm saying is that side placements have proven popular in the past. Popularity doesn't always mean a print.

AdderXYU wrote:why bother? it's not like he cares about respect. Let him keep commenting. It shows his total lack of integrity, and his fans will eat that scaffolding up, since big bad Adder hates it. Oooh, that Adder. How dare he not like the shirt I want? My opinion is the best!

don't bother being his handler. No one's going to touch him. People defend users with even LESS integrity, so the fact that he can even execute anything means no one will ever care about what he says. He'll still do just as well or poorly. And every time he does something for a quick buck, people will rush and defend him for "ooh, he did that one decent one that time". If they do it for Ramy, they'll do it for him. There's no harm for him to let his true colors show. Again, even at ramy's slimiest, people are naive enough to think he's not. your husband could start submitting plagiarized copies of Threadless classics and admit it in the thread, and people would still comment "+1, I love it! So original!"

You're just covering your arse because you KNOW this time he said something that shows he's not a victim, and it can bite him in the behind. And that is where most of us keep our wallets.

I am not covering anything. I called my own husband out for trying to be funny, but coming off a tad bit rude. That was what he was trying to do.. be funny, make you a badge so you could put it all over the place. Ha ha.. joke that went over badly. Spin it whatever way you want Adder.. that is how it is. He wasn't trying to be malicious, but I can see how it may have come over that way.

Be done Adder. Go find something more useful to do than trying to convince everyone about something you clearly know nothing about (i.e. my husband's integrity).

I wanted this stupid argument to be over. Honestly, all this over a balderah panda bear shirt that didn't go to print. I offer a peace offering, asking you nicely to please make amends, accept an apology for any offense given, and see if you might offer helpful advice about an artistic realm you feel passionate about as we look toward a new future and try to work together towards upping the design quality you so desperately seek here and instead you spit back at me.

Stop being such a jerk. Enough is enough. You talk about respect and integrity, when the majority of the time you can't make a comment without being hurtful, rude, mean, hateful, or down right insulting.

Everyone can shout as loud as they want about how if you can't take it than don't read, or ignore it or whatever it is that they will say. I have been in my fair share of art critiques and respectable people do not act this way. If you can't say anything about the art, except that the artist is a loser than you need to go back and take art criticism 101.

Honestly, is this how it is done now? Is this what the human race is coming to? Forgiveness can't be achieved, amends can not be made? Instead of being helpful or intelligent, we get scornful laughs, insulting jabs, and outright hatred gets spewed without anyone having to be accountable for the degrading disrespectful manner in which they are acting.

Oh, but this is the internet... we don't have to act like decent human beings. cancellation excuse.

WidowFrog wrote:I am not covering anything. I called my own husband out for trying to be funny, but coming off a tad bit rude. That was what he was trying to do.. be funny, make you a badge so you could put it all over the place. Ha ha.. joke that went over badly. Spin it whatever way you want Adder.. that is how it is. He wasn't trying to be malicious, but I can see how it may have come over that way.

Be done Adder. Go find something more useful to do than trying to convince everyone about something you clearly know nothing about (i.e. my husband's integrity).

I wanted this stupid argument to be over. Honestly, all this over a balderah panda bear shirt that didn't go to print. I offer a peace offering, asking you nicely to please make amends, accept an apology for any offense given, and see if you might offer helpful advice about an artistic realm you feel passionate about as we look toward a new future and try to work together towards upping the design quality you so desperately seek here and instead you spit back at me.

Stop being such a jerk. Enough is enough. You talk about respect and integrity, when the majority of the time you can't make a comment without being hurtful, rude, mean, hateful, or down right insulting.

Everyone can shout as loud as they want about how if you can't take it than don't read, or ignore it or whatever it is that they will say. I have been in my fair share of art critiques and respectable people do not act this way. If you can't say anything about the art, except that the artist is a loser than you need to go back and take art criticism 101.

Honestly, is this how it is done now? Is this what the human race is coming to? Forgiveness can't be achieved, amends can not be made? Instead of being helpful or intelligent, we get scornful laughs, insulting jabs, and outright hatred gets spewed without anyone having to be accountable for the degrading disrespectful manner in which they are acting.

Oh, but this is the internet... we don't have to act like decent human beings. cancellation excuse.

Thank you Widow Frog for writing such an enthralling reply.

I've been following the derbies for a while now, even before I started buying shirts. Every time I come to these boards I see Adder going around preaching his self righteous idea of the "art quality" that he wants to see at shirt.woot. I understand Adder's wish to have more sophisticated designs but is being mean the way to go?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions so Adder, if you don't like the designs that is fine, but don't be rude to other people who do like the design. I'm tired of having to read your comments that is downright condescending. You talk as if everyone on Woot, except you, are too dumb and too stupid to see what "real" shirt art is.

You have your opinion but other people have theirs. Art, in all its forms is highly subjective. It's all in the matter of tastes. Popular art does not mean its "good" art but again, it's all opinions. I don't know who made you the end all be all art critic here but seriously, stop acting as if your opinion is the only one that matters.

DeadFrog wrote:He can never make Adder happy again. He's earned ADDER'S CONTEMPT!

For this achievement he can expect Adder to show up on any of his shirts that end up in the fog and nitpick each and every time!

This usually means the shirt will win; in part because past recipients of this prestigious award will vote for you out of spite.

Congrats Ramyb!

Oh. Man. My abdominal muscles are killing me from isometrics last night but I'm laughing so hard right now anyway. DAMN YOU DEADFROG!

re: the art of creation

I would like it if it wasn't white..

joiewashere wrote:I would like it if it wasn't white..

This is something I've been wondering about, what's wrong with white tees?

[edited by mod]

krisrobinson wrote:This is something I've been wondering about, what's wrong with white tees?

Probably just personal taste. I'm not a big fan of baby blue or white shirts myself. Not that I don't like those colors, but some colors just look better on me then others do. That will effect my vote sometimes. I may love a design, but if it's on a color I really don't like or like with the design I won't vote/buy it. You can never make everybody happy, that's just part of the process.

Re: The Art of Creation

Loving this shirt/design. Voted and will buy one if it prints.

krisrobinson wrote:This is something I've been wondering about, what's wrong with white tees?

I like white tees. =)

Re: The Art of Creation

Hot, GMV

krisrobinson wrote:This is something I've been wondering about, what's wrong with white tees?

Depends on the tee material. Some white tees are a little too see-through for some people's taste. Not so much a big deal for guys, but we ladies might want a little more coverage. As opposed to we hoochie mamas who don't care so much.

I guess there's also the argument that white shows dirt more readily, but it depends on what you're doing while you wear the shirt. Making spaghetti sauce is not a good idea.

Some people probably don't look good in stark white, but for every color, there are people who won't look good or don't personally like to wear it.

HalfWheat wrote:Depends on the tee material. Some white tees are a little too see-through for some people's taste. Not so much a big deal for guys, but we ladies might want a little more coverage. As opposed to we hoochie mamas who don't care so much.

I guess there's also the argument that white shows dirt more readily, but it depends on what you're doing while you wear the shirt. Making spaghetti sauce is not a good idea.

Some people probably don't look good in stark white, but for every color, there are people who won't look good or don't personally like to wear it.

Yup.. for me, #1 reason is the coverage... unless it's a particularly un see-through white shirt.
#2, much less important though, is easy stains. Somehow I always end up being somewhere with a red-toned sauce when I'm wearing white, and I'm a bad clothes-washer I guess, because there's always a faint stain left after my attempts. which doesn't look good.
I'm not totally opposed to white, in fact I'm brainstorming a design that I think might work best on white... but those are my usual hesitations.

As to looks, I think white suits my skin, so I do kinda wish most white wasn't so see-through!

AdderXYU wrote:So long as there are people who don't deserve to profit profiting, Adder will not be happy. That is what it comes down to. If you are not doing good enough work, you should not be making money at it. What a horrible way to make a living. So if an Adder-based woot site allowed shirt.woot to still go on doing the same unforgivable nonsense it does, I would still be here complaining for the sake of what few actual artists and designers are here. The people who have the passion and drive and ideas. Not the bland consumer panders and slipshod slaptogethers that win most often. By advocating against me, you are advocating for the death of creativity.

To be honest I would actually like to know which designs each derby you do like and think should win. Unfortunately you are so vocal and negative all the time it's hard to find your compliments and approvals and your blog doesn't really cover shirt.woot enough to get a sense of what you like on here all the time, other then this last derby. Or maybe I just haven't seen your blog enough. Not making a jab, I'd honestly like to see your choices just so I can get a better understanding of what you think constitutes good art. You should put it in your signature each week.

stupid internet connection *double posted

AdderXYU wrote: By advocating against me, you are advocating for the death of creativity.

Wow.

Love the colors and the placement, but wish it were on a colored shirt! Sort of reminds me of 9/11 though with disintegrating buildings and the color at the bottom almost looks like fire!

Re: The Art of Creation

"If you are not doing good enough work, you should not be making money at it." -Adder

--If this were true, the horror film market would be non existent.
But we love 'em and it's not. Adder, I'm sure even YOU love at least one cheesy slasher film.

I generally gravitate towards side placement, as long as it makes sense and looks good. Bummer that they don't get more votes...don't know why that is. As for this shirt--the brush is uncomfortably placed and it's not really worth my ten bucks.

Re: The Art of Creation

this is my fave one in the fog. Ultra cool.

bryteyes44 wrote:Sort of reminds me of 9/11 though with disintegrating buildings and the color at the bottom almost looks like fire!

That's my biggest issue with the design. They're less clear buildings and more nondescript and jagged blue and green jumbles emerging from some random colors.

Re: The Art of Creation

nice design

Re: The Art of Creation

If every second post is Adder bitching then it must be a good design.

systemerror wrote:If every second post is Adder bitching then it must be a good design.

Say what you want about his attitude, but this really isn't true.

systemerror wrote:If every second post is Adder bitching then it must be a good design.

No, it's not.

jmmbell1987 wrote:Say what you want about his attitude, but this really isn't true.

I also agree, but it is funny how you never see Adder posting relentlessly on designs that are outside the fog or close to it. Sort the designs by votes and peruse the lower vote submissions, see how many Adder posts you find... if there are any.

Re: The Art of Creation

I don't mind the design as much as I do the white T-shirt. I just don't look good in white, so this is a no for me.

Plus, no offense anyone, but if someone extremely obese wore this it might be kind of cool, cause the colors would be wavy and look like a paintbrush!

Muntoe wrote:I don't mind the design as much as I do the white T-shirt. I just don't look good in white, so this is a no for me.

Plus, no offense anyone, but if someone extremely obese wore this it might be kind of cool, cause the colors would be wavy and look like a paintbrush!

And I did not mean to bash this design, imo I think it's a nice sidebar design, it's just too plain for me.

sugareeali wrote:"If you are not doing good enough work, you should not be making money at it." -Adder

--If this were true, the horror film market would be non existent.
But we love 'em and it's not. Adder, I'm sure even YOU love at least one cheesy slasher film.

I generally gravitate towards side placement, as long as it makes sense and looks good. Bummer that they don't get more votes...don't know why that is. As for this shirt--the brush is uncomfortably placed and it's not really worth my ten bucks.

Cheesy horror is appreciated ironically. As we've discussed in the "bring the shirt back" thread, people like ramy do not do bad work that can be appreciated ironically. they simply do horrible work with no redemption.

Also, what sort of horror do you prefer... really bad modern horror films, or kitschy throwbacks that, at the time, were probably the peak of special effects and have simply become more dated and cheesy with the passage of time?

Your argument is flawed at the beginning. Especially since you agree this isn't well done.

mikenytola wrote:I also agree, but it is funny how you never see Adder posting relentlessly on designs that are outside the fog or close to it. Sort the designs by votes and peruse the lower vote submissions, see how many Adder posts you find... if there are any.

Why would I care if a horrible design wasn't doing well? That's kinda how it SHOULD be.

AdderXYU wrote:Cheesy horror is appreciated ironically. As we've discussed in the "bring the shirt back" thread, people like ramy do not do bad work that can be appreciated ironically. they simply do horrible work with no redemption.

Also, what sort of horror do you prefer... really bad modern horror films, or kitschy throwbacks that, at the time, were probably the peak of special effects and have simply become more dated and cheesy with the passage of time?

Your argument is flawed at the beginning. Especially since you agree this isn't well done.

Oh Adder I was just teasing you. :p
There wasn't an argument.
And I do still agree.

AdderXYU wrote:Why would I care if a horrible design wasn't doing well? That's kinda how it SHOULD be.

Its only horrible in your opinion not the hundreds of other people that have voted you tard.

Re: The Art of Creation

Adder, you exhaust me. If ramyb is predictable, then your reactions to him are doubly so. Only louder and more annoying.

Yes, any shirt of of his that reaches the fog you have to scaffolding all over. We get it. 90% of what fogs these days isn't that original, so is it really worth being so hateful towards a few select people?

And, really, your response to WFrog was unnecessary. She was being nice.

A quick look at the other entries in the fog at this moment (The Wrong Guys For The Job, Larkitecture, Building in the Toy Room) versus this submission is rather telling.

All the other fog members have a quirky/unique concept, and great artwork to back that up.

Compare to this entry, which has no unique concept (buildings and a paintbrush. whoopee), and doesn't have the artistic chops of the others.

Compare to Lights of Emerald City (currently #5), which shares the lack of concept, but at least is executed much better in terms of attention to detail.

Previous comments to the contrary, I think shirt.woot voters are generally discerning. However it seems the moment ramyseki's works appear on the site, they're guaranteed to fog at some point in their lifetime. They usually finish very high as well.

This leads me to believe there are a horde of users out there whose participation in the site is simply voting and/or buying whenever ramyseki submissions show up. Whether they do this for the general style of those submissions (which never change), out of loyalty to the name, or something else I don't know.

Whatever their origin, this crowd of users is highly damaging to the discerning ones. 51% of the voters deciding for 49% that lazily-executed conceptless shirts should sell is a travesty.

Adder may be the most vocal, but lack of complaints from elsewhere doesn't mean he's the only one who's tired of these curious voting patterns.

Re: The Art of Creation

It is amazing to read the critiques on this shirt just to see how many of you truly have your head up your own ass.

That being said. I really like this shirt.

Re: The Art of Creation

You know, I'm not a huge fan of your designs - typically the ones with cute bunnies or whatever - but I really actually like this one. I like it when you expand your style and surprise me, and despite what everyone else is saying, I genuinely think this looks rad. Thanks for sharing.

kyougoh wrote:A quick look at the other entries in the fog at this moment (The Wrong Guys For The Job, Larkitecture, Building in the Toy Room) versus this submission is rather telling.

All the other fog members have a quirky/unique concept, and great artwork to back that up.

Compare to this entry, which has no unique concept (buildings and a paintbrush. whoopee), and doesn't have the artistic chops of the others.

Compare to Lights of Emerald City (currently #5), which shares the lack of concept, but at least is executed much better in terms of attention to detail.

Previous comments to the contrary, I think shirt.woot voters are generally discerning. However it seems the moment ramyseki's works appear on the site, they're guaranteed to fog at some point in their lifetime. They usually finish very high as well.

This leads me to believe there are a horde of users out there whose participation in the site is simply voting and/or buying whenever ramyseki submissions show up. Whether they do this for the general style of those submissions (which never change), out of loyalty to the name, or something else I don't know.

Whatever their origin, this crowd of users is highly damaging to the discerning ones. 51% of the voters deciding for 49% that lazily-executed conceptless shirts should sell is a travesty.

Adder may be the most vocal, but lack of complaints from elsewhere doesn't mean he's the only one who's tired of these curious voting patterns.

hear hear! my status as a detractor is so well established that i didnt feel the need to chime in on this one. i cant pretend that i dont have a bias against ramyb, but i like to think im discerning and fair enough to know that this shirt is just mediocre. maybe because its a break from that cloying chibi scaffolding that people just eat it up. perhaps ramy does have an instinct to know what will be visually pleasing (sell well) but i dont see it here. despite the well established bias against white shirts, fair or not, this shirt is doing very well. so it is a mediocre design on an unpopular shirt color and its winning. this just leads me to repeat the old accusations: 1. people are voting on name alone 2. ramyb has brought a fan base or is independently encouraging people to vote or 3. someone is rigging the votes.

we all know adderxyu is no bed of roses. but what he is lacking in manners he makes up for in integrity. did he cave in when deadfrogs wife tried to win him over with kindness? while his response may have been rude (and i think it was) he is unwavering in his convictions. most people would look down upon that and call it arrogant, but those are the people that are afraid to be unkind. i can get tired of his ceaseless crusading from time to time like anyone else, but when absolute scaffolding like "listen to your conscience" prints, im glad hes there being vocal, calling attention to gaping hole of reason in this contest and i defend him not because he is the loudest, not because hes the most present of the dissentors, but because he is right. look past his abrasiveness and consider it honestly, and you may just wind up agreeing with him

systemerror wrote:Its only horrible in your opinion not the hundreds of other people that have voted you tard.

You're 0 for 2 so far.

sublime3sixteen wrote:It is amazing to read the critiques on this shirt just to see how many of you truly have your head up your own ass.

I'm curious what you mean by this. Adder's exchange with Widowfrog and its subsequent back and forth aside, most of the criticism (and discussion, really) pertaining to directly the design has been civil.

Re: The Art of Creation

I feel like no matter what happens this week there will be two very similar shirts that print. If this one and "Other Worlds" print together then there will be two white shirts with swirly halftones and tall buildings up the sides. If this one and "Emerald City" print, then there will be two shirts with the same exact concept...of buildings and entire cities springing from the artist's hand. I know it will never happen, but I feel like if this one dropped out of the top four there would be a lot more diversity in the fog. I think its tolerably pretty, but of all the great shirts this week...its just not one of those few I personally feel merits a print.

neat design, I actually like your robot building the pyramids better, though. good luck.

Re: The Art of Creation

This is beautiful, I hope this wins, because I will be sure to buy it!

This one is amazing, very cool shirt.

AdderXYU wrote:So long as there are people who don't deserve to profit profiting, Adder will not be happy. That is what it comes down to. If you are not doing good enough work, you should not be making money at it. What a horrible way to make a living. So if an Adder-based woot site allowed shirt.woot to still go on doing the same unforgivable nonsense it does, I would still be here complaining for the sake of what few actual artists and designers are here. The people who have the passion and drive and ideas. Not the bland consumer panders and slipshod slaptogethers that win most often. By advocating against me, you are advocating for the death of creativity.

My understanding is that you argue for a different shirt.woot (derby), a shirt.woot where what matters most is art and creativity. That is commendable, but is still useless. Useless in the sense that shirt.woot won't change, and you know that.

If it makes you feel better to trash the designs you don't think are "worthy", fine. I bet most artists, of the ones you tend to nitpick on, stopped caring about your posts long ago (DeadFrog seems to be an exception). It's not like your opinion has any weight on the voting process (which is what the artists that pander the public care about anyway, by your view).

Re: The Art of Creation

is "this" what you think chicago will look like after it's buildings are hit by the terrorists? nice way to make people show their bellies. building debree falling down all over i see this and I think 9/11. thanks for nothing.

AdderXYU wrote:So long as there are people who don't deserve to profit profiting, Adder will not be happy. That is what it comes down to. If you are not doing good enough work, you should not be making money at it. What a horrible way to make a living. So if an Adder-based woot site allowed shirt.woot to still go on doing the same unforgivable nonsense it does, I would still be here complaining for the sake of what few actual artists and designers are here. The people who have the passion and drive and ideas. Not the bland consumer panders and slipshod slaptogethers that win most often. By advocating against me, you are advocating for the death of creativity.

From what I can see, the only people profiting are the ones who can make a design that appeals to a broad spectrum of woot shoppers...good for them! It's called capitalism. Whether the art is high class or po-dunk, the point is, people want a shirt they want to wear.

Sooo....even if you are the most talented artist in the universe, it doesn't mean a flip if you can't produce sell-able merchandise!

Anyway, feel free to promote the starving artist stereotype. In the meantime, I say good for RamyB and his talent for capturing an audience and knowing what the people want.

mopeloss wrote:My understanding is that you argue for a different shirt.woot (derby), a shirt.woot where what matters most is art and creativity. That is commendable, but is still useless. Useless in the sense that shirt.woot won't change, and you know that.

If it makes you feel better to trash the designs you don't think are "worthy", fine. I bet most artists, of the ones you tend to nitpick on, stopped caring about your posts long ago (DeadFrog seems to be an exception). It's not like your opinion has any weight on the voting process (which is what the artists that pander the public care about anyway, by your view).

Believing it to be useless is why it is useless.

If you care about a cause, whether it be big and vital or small and significant only to a centralized community, you fight regardless of futility. Without a voice no one knows change is desired.

The artists do care what I'm saying (though not the users who submit the pieces I harp on, but those are different subsets anyway). As for those people who are playing for the money and have no respect or passion for their trade, they have no respect or passion for their trade. They are proud of their paycheck. I could be peaches and cream in my critiques, but they only care about making a buck, so it doesn't matter. They won't change. The voters, and ultimately the site, might someday.

kn1srut1 wrote:From what I can see, the only people profiting are the ones who can make a design that appeals to a broad spectrum of woot shoppers...good for them! It's called capitalism. Whether the art is high class or po-dunk, the point is, people want a shirt they want to wear.

Sooo....even if you are the most talented artist in the universe, it doesn't mean a flip if you can't produce sell-able merchandise!

Anyway, feel free to promote the starving artist stereotype. In the meantime, I say good for RamyB and his talent for capturing an audience and knowing what the people want.

That is not a talent. Unless you'd also go up to a sheepherder and say "DUDE CONGRATS YOU ARE THE BEST SHEEPHERDER EVER". And even then, it takes considerably more effort and skill to raise a bunch of livestock than to find mediocre trash to sell to the human equivalent.

Where did we go wrong that it is RESPECTABLE to not do your best, but simply make money?

eHalcyon wrote:I still don't see what side placement has anything to do with it. If I wanted to, I could link dozens of winning side placement designs by ramyb and kdeuce, who fall into your "no quality" pile. And again, there have been many side placement designs of "quality" that have done well in derbies, if not actually printed. This is the same pattern as for regular centered placement designs. So again, what does placement have to do with it?

Side placements are NOT hated. That's all I was saying.

I still say you're totally unsure about your demographic, but hey, if you want to be wrong, I know you're not going to stop.

Let's find something we can agree on in this entry. Like the fact that the brush across the stomach makes it pretty awkwardly wearable. Or the fact that this comment:

ChefRAZ wrote:is "this" what you think chicago will look like after it's buildings are hit by the terrorists? nice way to make people show their bellies. building debree falling down all over i see this and I think 9/11. thanks for nothing.

MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

AdderXYU wrote:I still say you're totally unsure about your demographic, but hey, if you want to be wrong, I know you're not going to stop.

Your statement was "Funny how voters normally hate side placements, but yours is doing well." I've seen no evidence of voters "normally" hating side placements. Actually, they're generally quite well received even if they don't all make it to print. But plenty do get there.

How am I unsure of the demographic? The majority of voters vote up designs that you consider low quality. This is true regardless of placement. Derby regulars show regular support to the artists who enter great designs; these designs do well but usually end up just outside the fog (read: top ten). This is true regardless of placement. There is NO evidence that voters "normally hate side placements". Rather, evidence suggests that voters normally love mediocre - something you've cited many times as reason why Woot should become more hands-on in the selection process. Placement has nothing to do with it.

But nice work ignoring all the links I've provided and using a generic insult to disqualify everything I say. Ad hominem arguments aren't logical fallacies at all. Please, do go on.

Edit: I included Cho's pocket dinosaur design in my links because I consider pocket placement to be a subset of side placement. Those "pockets" are on the side, after all.

AdderXYU wrote:Let's find something we can agree on in this entry. Like the fact that the brush across the stomach makes it pretty awkwardly wearable.

Heh, you totally just moved this to a different entry. My post that you quoted is on "there are other worlds than these".

eHalcyon wrote:Heh, you totally just moved this to a different entry. My post that you quoted is on "there are other worlds than these".

Outside of the fact that dixon actually can create attractive graphics, understands color combinations, and seems to have not had the same inspiration on yet another different theme, there's not enough difference for me to pay that kind of attention.

Re: The Art of Creation

A lot of people dislike this design and that makes me vote for it even though I would never buy it because it's a terrible design. This makes logical sense to me.

stingray69 wrote:A lot of people dislike this design and that makes me vote for it even though I would never buy it because it's a terrible design. This makes logical sense to me.

then you dont understand what the word "logic" means

stingray69 wrote:A lot of people dislike this design and that makes me vote for it even though I would never buy it because it's a terrible design. This makes logical sense to me.

So...a lot of people don't like this, and you agree with them, therefor you're going to vote for it. Because you hate it. As a result, a design that you want to buy might not print.

Yeah, I can see the logic in that. If, by "logic" you mean "it's more fun to mess with other people than it is to let them buy a design that they really like."

marmls2m wrote:then you dont understand what the word "logic" means

HalfWheat wrote:So...a lot of people don't like this, and you agree with them, therefor you're going to vote for it. Because you hate it. As a result, a design that you want to buy might not print.

Yeah, I can see the logic in that. If, by "logic" you mean "it's more fun to mess with other people than it is to let them buy a design that they really like."

I think he was being sarcastic.

eHalcyon wrote:I think he was being sarcastic.

One who's sarcastic and a number of others who actually do vote to make other people unhappy and agree with the post.

I think I need to go to Target and buy a cruddy awful tee shirt now.

Re: The Art of Creation

Wow, I guess Adder is the only one who gets to use sarcasm. I thought I made it pretty obvious, but apparently my ridiculous assertion blended in too well with the comments I was trying to parody.

stingray69 wrote:Wow, I guess Adder is the only one who gets to use sarcasm. I thought I made it pretty obvious, but apparently my ridiculous assertion blended in too well with the comments I was trying to parody.

Yup. Got me. But then again, there's a "vote for the worst" website that exists just to steer people to voting for the worst person on reality shows. So someone voting for spite is not all that uncommon.

Whether there are enough of those voters here to make a difference, I wonder.

AdderXYU wrote:MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

adder I don't know what I did to you to make you say the things you do all the time, but I find your right about most of the stuf you say about the shirts on here. But I guess it just boils down to your an Observer,and you hold a grudge forever. hope you seek help for this.

AdderXYU wrote:Why would I care if a horrible design wasn't doing well? That's kinda how it SHOULD be.

This, this right here. This is where you messed up. You just called everything out of the fog and or top 10 horrible. Yet your argument is that the people who vote on this site vote for generic and cliche non-artistic garbage. You yourself said that a lot good shirts here don't get recognized or printed, yet anything at the bottom of the barrel is automatically horrible? This is where my confusion starts. You see, if 9/10 woot voters aren't printing your best interest, then wouldn't your best interest be those "Horrible designs" that aren't doing well?

Nice.

JordanTG wrote:This, this right here. This is where you messed up. You just called everything out of the fog and or top 10 horrible. Yet your argument is that the people who vote on this site vote for generic and cliche non-artistic garbage. You yourself said that a lot good shirts here don't get recognized or printed, yet anything at the bottom of the barrel is automatically horrible? This is where my confusion starts. You see, if 9/10 woot voters aren't printing your best interest, then wouldn't your best interest be those "Horrible designs" that aren't doing well?

No, that's not what he said. There's only a few positions at the top. Both good designs and terrible designs end up at the bottom. Adder was being called out for ranting at popular shirts that he considered terrible while not giving equal time to unpopular terrible shirts. His (very logical) explanation is that he has no reason to wax eloquent on those designs - they're where they deserve to be. He never said that everything at the bottom is horrible.

JordanTG wrote:This, this right here. This is where you messed up. You just called everything out of the fog and or top 10 horrible. Yet your argument is that the people who vote on this site vote for generic and cliche non-artistic garbage. You yourself said that a lot good shirts here don't get recognized or printed, yet anything at the bottom of the barrel is automatically horrible? This is where my confusion starts. You see, if 9/10 woot voters aren't printing your best interest, then wouldn't your best interest be those "Horrible designs" that aren't doing well?

Your logic contains no logic.

There are 100-200 designs outside of the fog any given week. Most of them are horrible. Some are not.

What I said, as you obviously didn't read correctly, is that I don't care when horrible designs are not in the fog. Because horrible designs shouldn't be in the fog. So if they are not, they require a special sort of terrible for me to even comment. Or they can be good, but as we both can likely agree, why would I hate good designs?

I get upset at bad designs doing well and good designs doing poorly. What concern of mine is it when a bad design does poorly? That is, as I stated and you quoted, the way it SHOULD work.

Re: The Art of Creation

I'd vote for it, but I'm sticking to my guns...

JoeDeth wrote:
To ramyb/sekiyoku: I've supported you in the past, by voting for and yes even buying some of your entries. No longer. Your submission to this derby really was the laziest and most unoriginal thing I've seen, especially coming from someone so obviously talented. I think that as an artist it's obvious that you've compromised your integrity, especially since you could have (and should have) withdrawn your submission of your own volition.

as seen here http://shirt.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=3364484

/me shrugs

AdderXYU wrote:MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

Chef...I do kind of agree with this. I had no idea what you were talking about! But reading it over again...I understand half. Oh wait--is this a Chicago landscape? no...still don't get it.

sugareeali wrote:Chef...I do kind of agree with this. I had no idea what you were talking about! But reading it over again...I understand half. Oh wait--is this a Chicago landscape? no...still don't get it.

looks like it to me.

JordanTG wrote:This, this right here. This is where you messed up. You just called everything out of the fog and or top 10 horrible. Yet your argument is that the people who vote on this site vote for generic and cliche non-artistic garbage. You yourself said that a lot good shirts here don't get recognized or printed, yet anything at the bottom of the barrel is automatically horrible? This is where my confusion starts. You see, if 9/10 woot voters aren't printing your best interest, then wouldn't your best interest be those "Horrible designs" that aren't doing well?

bad designs and poorly performing designs are not mutually inclusive. when you think you understand that STATEMENT A means STATEMENT B, stop to consider if A could not equal B. that way you are less likely to adamantly state something that can be proven false.

JordanTG wrote:This, this right here. This is where you messed up. You just called everything out of the fog and or top 10 horrible. Yet your argument is that the people who vote on this site vote for generic and cliche non-artistic garbage. You yourself said that a lot good shirts here don't get recognized or printed, yet anything at the bottom of the barrel is automatically horrible? This is where my confusion starts. You see, if 9/10 woot voters aren't printing your best interest, then wouldn't your best interest be those "Horrible designs" that aren't doing well?

man, people on this site really polish their selective reading skills.

all he said was, IF there happened to be a horrible design that lets say, has five votes at the end of the week. that's how it SHOULD be, bad designs should have few votes, and good designs should have many votes. why should he go around and comment on bad designs getting no votes, that's how it should be on this site, bad designs get no votes, good designs get votes.

DeadFrog wrote:For this achievement he can expect Adder to show up on any of his shirts that end up in the fog and nitpick each and every time!

This usually means the shirt will win; in part because past recipients of this prestigious award will vote for you out of spite.

If all you need is Adder hate to have a winning formula, then I am in for a bottle with my next derby entry.

Maybe not full on rage hate, but maybe miffed Adder Lite. I hear it is half the calories as well.

Re: The Art of Creation

I can't wait for the day when we find out that Raymb and Adder are actually the same person, who made 2 different user names just to mess with us :P
Because ones harshest critic is usually themselves, right?
XD

JesseBYAH wrote:I can't wait for the day when we find out that Raymb and Adder are actually the same person, who made 2 different user names just to mess with us :P
Because ones harshest critic is usually themselves, right?
XD

Haha... that would be kinda... perfect. I doubt it'll be the case, but keep that dream alive, JesseBYAH! ;-)

littleonerun wrote:Haha... that would be kinda... perfect. I doubt it'll be the case, but keep that dream alive, JesseBYAH! ;-)

Haha I will

re: the art of creation

+1

As a side note please keep feeding the trolls. I find it amusing :p

Love the colors transformation

mikenytola wrote:I also agree, but it is funny how you never see Adder posting relentlessly on designs that are outside the fog or close to it. Sort the designs by votes and peruse the lower vote submissions, see how many Adder posts you find... if there are any.

Well of course. It doesn't make sense to point out why something shouldn't be winning if it's not winning. His is only qualms are with sub par designs being printed over far better, and better executed, designs.

Re: The Art of Creation

Hah! Just saw that this one has fallen out of the fog and currently has 666 votes.

Re: The Art of Creation

Best shirt in the derby. Lets get this back in the fog!

AdderXYU wrote:Believing it to be useless is why it is useless.

If you care about a cause, whether it be big and vital or small and significant only to a centralized community, you fight regardless of futility. Without a voice no one knows change is desired.

The artists do care what I'm saying (though not the users who submit the pieces I harp on, but those are different subsets anyway). As for those people who are playing for the money and have no respect or passion for their trade, they have no respect or passion for their trade. They are proud of their paycheck. I could be peaches and cream in my critiques, but they only care about making a buck, so it doesn't matter. They won't change. The voters, and ultimately the site, might someday.

hm, i agree actually..

wheres my weird stuff RamyB?
WHERE??? I WANT WEIRD DESIGNS FROM U NAO!!

re: the art of creation

It looks a lot like the old Chicago 2016 "Torch" logo, which I really liked.

Re: The Art of Creation

So, will this one be coming along tomorrow? I'd love to order this design.