Derby #114: Cooking

tonight I dine

No video games...thanks

Rejected because: No video games...thanks

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Comments

JesseBYAH


quality posts: 5 Private Messages JesseBYAH
Re: tonight I dine


This is sick and twisted and I love it. I keep trying to vote for it but my vote isnt showing up. Grrrr...

Leahbh


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Leahbh
Re: tonight I dine


I like it, the colors are great, but I still think it counts as a video game reference. I think it's what they're trying to get away from. But maybe that's just me. BTW, I still voted.

tico0001


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tico0001
Leahbh wrote:I like it, the colors are great, but I still think it counts as a video game reference. I think it's what they're trying to get away from. But maybe that's just me. BTW, I still voted.



Being that it was originally a comic, later a TV show, and THEN a video game, I hope that it doesn't get rejected on that basis.

~Tico

JesseBYAH


quality posts: 5 Private Messages JesseBYAH
tico0001 wrote:Being that it was originally a comic, later a TV show, and THEN a video game, I hope that it doesn't get rejected on that basis.

~Tico


Agreed. Just because something was made into a video game later doesn't mean it was ONLY a video game. I used to watch the show all the time, and the action figures were WAY better than barbies...

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
tico0001 wrote:Being that it was originally a comic, later a TV show, and THEN a video game, I hope that it doesn't get rejected on that basis.

~Tico


Being that it was a comic, a TV show, a video game, and a movie, I certainly would love for it to be rejected on ANY basis.

Though if Deadfrog's total literal-representation-of-origin didn't get rejected, this has far more alteration of style and a shred of parody, at least.

Edit Note: no pun was intended by "shred of parody," but in retrospect, I'm patting myself on the damn back for that one.

Leahbh


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Leahbh
AdderXYU wrote:

Though if Deadfrog's total literal-representation-of-origin didn't get rejected, this has far more alteration of style and a shred of parody, at least.


But the no video game rule wasn't in place then.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Leahbh wrote:But the no video game rule wasn't in place then.


but it's not a videogame. Or wasn't first, at least. It was a pure non-parody. It should never have sold because it is nothing but stealing an idea and slapping it on a shirt. It's unauthorized fan-art.

For me, I'd just like a widesweeping rule that doesn't outlaw anything, so much as require a level-of-parody out of every parodic entry. So, videogames are allowed ONLY if their parody is super-tight. Same with movies, TV, comics, internet memes, etc etc. It can't just be a couple things slapped together. There needs to be some real substance and creativity to the "why".

Unlike every other contest out there, woot goes solely on votes, which means ANY reference shirt has an unfair advantage. Because people will vote for it because of the reference, and buy it for the reference, and overlook critical flaws for that reference. And that is why I support the video game ban, but also why I feel that their action needs to extend way further to really allow entries to shine forth based on their own merit.

srm8ib4


quality posts: 5 Private Messages srm8ib4
Re: tonight I dine


Looks maybe too similar to Shredder.

JesseBYAH


quality posts: 5 Private Messages JesseBYAH
AdderXYU wrote:

Edit Note: no pun was intended by "shred of parody," but in retrospect, I'm patting myself on the damn back for that one.


LOL good one, haha...

gymst


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gymst

great use of color!

kaseyfleming


quality posts: 1 Private Messages kaseyfleming
Re: tonight I dine


uhh.... AWESOME!

KaylaJ


quality posts: 22 Private Messages KaylaJ
Re: tonight I dine


i like the colors

401CollegeKid


quality posts: 0 Private Messages 401CollegeKid
Re: tonight I dine


Looks so retro. Awesome dude!

pollenator77


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pollenator77
Re: tonight I dine


Awesome art (love the colors), but I'm too much of a Turtles fan to want the Shred-Head to be winning.

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
Re: tonight I dine


TMNT is also a video game in addition to all the other forms. I don't think this would be considered a video game reference. Sure if he had done it with 8bit turtles and shredder then it would have been.

However the biggest issue is whether or not it will have a copyright issue (Shredder). I am not sure if it will, but you never know what the REJECTED stamp is thinking.

AshCorey150


quality posts: 1 Private Messages AshCorey150

I was a fan of the series long before playing a TMNT video game, so I hope this makes it through and doesn't get caught by video-game reference or copyright.

A shirt with the Shredda' winning? (Meh, in his dreams.) A shirt with the Ninja Turtles? (That's more like it!) A shirt with awesome design and color choices?

You've got my vote!

alienfreak2003


quality posts: 0 Private Messages alienfreak2003
Re: tonight I dine


Awesome art and color.. Hope it makes it into the fog...Good Luck...

iamnabeel786


quality posts: 0 Private Messages iamnabeel786
Re: tonight I dine


this shirt is soo friken syk i want it so bad

theinvisible


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theinvisible
Re: tonight I dine


I count seven colors: Purple, lime green, red, dark blue, lighter dark blue/green, dark yellow, light yellow.

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
Re: tonight I dine


NOT A VIDEO GAME REFERENCE!

TMNT were comics first, then cartoon then game then movie!

Bad call imo.

Misskari


quality posts: 8 Private Messages Misskari
theinvisible wrote:I count seven colors: Purple, lime green, red, dark blue, lighter dark blue/green, dark yellow, light yellow.


Hey, thanks for pointing that out; the JPG is from a slightly earlier version before I caught the two slightly different yellows.



This is what's in the final ai:

Pantone Red 032 C (Vermillion)
Pantone 2415 C (Purple)
Pantone 361 C (Lime Green)
Pantone 276 C (Dark Blue)
Pantone 309 C (Dark Cyan)
Pantone 115 C (Lemon Yellow)

(on black)


EDIT: Rejected anyway... Dang.

Leahbh


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Leahbh
Misskari wrote:


EDIT: Rejected anyway... Dang.


You knew would be.

Misskari


quality posts: 8 Private Messages Misskari
Leahbh wrote:You knew would be.[sic]


Hmm, not really.

This is just my second derby. I wasn't sure what to expect. People interpret rules differently, and I was on a different end than the woot judges.

No biggie, I'm learning.

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
Misskari wrote:Hmm, not really.

This is just my second derby. I wasn't sure what to expect. People interpret rules differently, and I was on a different end than the woot judges.

No biggie, I'm learning.


You can appeal the REJECTED. I suggest you do b/c you should at least get the chance to see how many votes you would have gotten.

matto1985


quality posts: 0 Private Messages matto1985

Definitely not a video game reference. Everyone knows the game was made after the series. Pointless rejection.

xespera


quality posts: 0 Private Messages xespera
kender42 wrote:NOT A VIDEO GAME REFERENCE!

TMNT were comics first, then cartoon then game then movie!

Bad call imo.


The only time I ever saw them demutate into normal turtles was in the video games to show 'death'. Did that ever come up in the comics or series? I don't remember

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
Re: tonight I dine


FYI

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/

Notice on the left...Comic Books, TV, DVD and so on.

edit.....
Oh and I forgot it was a pen and paper rpg as well.

JesseBYAH


quality posts: 5 Private Messages JesseBYAH

Noooooooo!!!! Appeal the rejection!

Misskari


quality posts: 8 Private Messages Misskari
JesseBYAH wrote:Noooooooo!!!! Appeal the rejection!


I'm sorry, how do I appeal a rejection? Can someone please give me a clue? I'm usually not one that requires hand-holding, but in this case I can't find any concrete how-to on this forum.

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
xespera wrote:The only time I ever saw them demutate into normal turtles was in the video games to show 'death'. Did that ever come up in the comics or series? I don't remember


Easier to avoid cpyright to make them that way. Remember the shirt "The epic begins"?

mikenytola


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mikenytola

This one get's rejected yet other off theme ones do not? Geesh. This was a cartoon LONG before it was a video game. I don't even associate TMNT as a video game it was a cartoon for so long.

Ascended


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Ascended

This is by far the best shirt in this derby. There's no chance of me buying any of the others. I don't understand how the Pillsbury dough boy makes it but this doesn't. Isn't that copyright infringement? When people say TMNT they normally don't think of a video game, they think of a cartoon. Complete garbage. I've seen video games with the ginger bread man do we need to reject all the submissions with that? Just utter nonsense.

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
Ascended wrote:This is by far the best shirt in this derby. There's no chance of me buying any of the others. I don't understand how the Pillsbury dough boy makes it but this doesn't. Isn't that copyright infringement? When people say TMNT they normally don't think of a video game, they think of a cartoon. Complete garbage. I've seen video games with the ginger bread man do we need to reject all the submissions with that? Just utter nonsense.


Uh-oh Gingerbread men are from Shrek....Shrek was made into a video game....therefore Gingerbread men are videogame references!

mrex99


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mrex99
Re: tonight I dine


TMNT isn't (primarily) a video game, you insensitive clods!

Leahbh


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Leahbh
Misskari wrote:Hmm, not really.

This is just my second derby. I wasn't sure what to expect. People interpret rules differently, and I was on a different end than the woot judges.

No biggie, I'm learning.


They give honorable mentions to rejected designs all the time.

tenieldjo


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tenieldjo
Re: tonight I dine


I liked this design. It was on topic, and let's face it, the movies and tv show and even some of the comics are more prominent than the video games.

If woot doesn't want pop culture references, they should say "no pop culture references" not "no video game references." A ton of really popular movies, shows, and books have been adapted into (generally bad) video games. It seems a lot more limiting than it ultimately should be.

I can see, and agree with to some extent, discouraging the use of unoriginal characters, even far enough removed to be parody. It encourages creativity, which is a good thing in a design contest to rely on, rather than who can garner votes from rabid video game fans (of which I count myself.) But I think that they need to be more up front if that's what they're going for, otherwise people are going to put time and effort into designs like this one, which is a well-made and funny parody, only to have them rejected.

Acorns


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Acorns
Re: tonight I dine


I must agree, TMNT shouldn't be categorized as video game reference. The cartoon, action figures, and comics came waaaaay before the video games did.

incumalf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages incumalf
Re: tonight I dine


Just adding that I, too, believe this shouldn't have been rejected. It's a stretch to claim this is a video game reference. Would've been great, Misskari! Hope to see more of your work!

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
Re: tonight I dine


Bad call, woot. You reject this and leave ramy's off-topic entry to simmer around in the fog? Everyone knows the turtles were a comic book long before they were a videogame, anyway.

My opinion of the rejectionator this derby? Weak.

Courtjester2001


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Courtjester2001
Re: tonight I dine


This one should have made it through... If you wanna reject it, reject it on something legitimate. There are video games with grim reapers, and bunnies, and zombies, and cute inanimate objects.. those don't get rejected.
Seriously. TMNT is not a "video game". They make video games out of everything awesome.

ejbloss


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ejbloss
Re: tonight I dine


Booooooooo!

TMNT was a comic
then became a show
then became a movie
THEN became a game

AND the title is a direct quote from the show

fugitoid


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fugitoid
Re: tonight I dine


There are other shirts in this derby that have not been rejected even though they are based on a comic book or movie character that was later made into a video game.

Either this one should come back, or sadly in fairness they all have to go.

By the way, I love the design and would vote for and buy it if I could.

smileyfaceman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages smileyfaceman
ejbloss wrote:Booooooooo!

TMNT was a comic
then became a show
then became a movie
THEN became a game

AND the title is a direct quote from the show


Seconded!
This is what I said would happen: a moratorium on ALL pop-culture references, even though they are typically their best sellers.

Mazzicc


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Mazzicc
kender42 wrote:
I am not sure if it will, but you never know what the REJECTED stamp is thinking.


...unless you read the reason for rejection?

Kabukiman


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Kabukiman

Very disappointed "Tonight I Dine" was rejected. Even more disappointed because of the misguided reasoning behind it. Video games don't even cross my mind when I look at this design.

schw9411


quality posts: 8 Private Messages schw9411
Re: tonight I dine


Fail Woot. Just fail.

TUTubaGirl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TUTubaGirl

I'd like Woot to explain why this is considered a video game reference. Yes TMNT was eventually made into a video game but practically everything is now a days.... Actually I'm pretty sure there's a video game called Cooking Mama or something where you cook.... a video game about cooking I mean really lol

Ascended


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Ascended

I think this whole thing is rigged. It's why the same people win so often. Woot probably has a deal with a few people where they pay them less for their designs in return for knocking out serious threats. Gotta love the conspiracy theory there but really this is complete nonsense. One of the top shirts has nothing to do with cooking and they don't say a thing but this one gets banned. Just ridiculous.

Ascended


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Ascended

I just went back through and noticed the shirt where Wolverine is roasting a marshmallow and the one of the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man. Both of those are in multiple video games, so how are they any different than this?

oldtdevil


quality posts: 1 Private Messages oldtdevil
Re: tonight I dine


Highly disappointed that WOOT rejected this. As everyone over the age of 15 seems to know, TMNT was a comic first.

Based on this rejection, anything with food should be rejected because food has appeared in video games.

WOOT - you really need to explain this one.

eharmon


quality posts: 0 Private Messages eharmon
Re: tonight I dine


VIDEO GAME? Are you kidding me? This is obviously based on the comic book/cartoon. Not some VIDEO GAME. Sheesh.

billratio


quality posts: 1 Private Messages billratio
Kabukiman wrote:Very disappointed "Tonight I Dine" was rejected. Even more disappointed because of the misguided reasoning behind it. Video games don't even cross my mind when I look at this design.


Agreed. Should not have been rejected.

Check out the Farting in the USA song parody and others!
http://www.youtube.com/user/thepetersonbros

tpeasetiger


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tpeasetiger

BAD CALL! This does not deserve to be rejected. Video Game reference? ON WHAT GROUNDS!? Might as well not even bother making shirts referencing series that eventually became video games. I have never played a single TMNT video game, but I watched the hell out of the TV show.

Sarzah


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Sarzah
Re: tonight I dine


I agree with all the others. No way do I think of a game when TMNT is referenced. This shirt is brilliant. Great use of color, great design. It seems woot made a bad call on this one.

I definitely would have bought it. If you get this printed elsewhere, let us know!

meh3884


quality posts: 25 Private Messages meh3884
Re: tonight I dine


video game reference? that's a stretch, woot.

Proudly tracking via WootStalker.com

stokastik


quality posts: 0 Private Messages stokastik

Just adding my voice to the chorus. Bad call, Woot! Started off as a comic. Comic != video game.

kender42


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kender42
Mazzicc wrote:...unless you read the reason for rejection?


My comment was made before the stamp fell. I was talking about not knowing what it was thinking before you get REJECTED.

But, yes you can read what they say the rejection is for after the stamping.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
stokastik wrote:Just adding my voice to the chorus. Bad call, Woot! Started off as a comic. Comic != video game.


I love how there is so much defense of this entry.

Video Game, Comic, TV show, whatever. It is copyrighted material, and not the intellectual property of the designer here, with slim-at-best parody. Their REASON might be wrong, but woot has every right to reject ANY entry like this. Because if you are using someone else's work, they need to be damn confident it will be unlikely to get them sued.

Nougatrocity


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Nougatrocity
AdderXYU wrote:I love how there is so much defense of this entry.

Video Game, Comic, TV show, whatever. It is copyrighted material, and not the intellectual property of the designer here, with slim-at-best parody. Their REASON might be wrong, but woot has every right to reject ANY entry like this. Because if you are using someone else's work, they need to be damn confident it will be unlikely to get them sued.


Copyright is a perfectly defensible reason to reject this entry. But if there's going to be a stated reason, it shouldn't be one that's so frivolous as the one given here. Heck, there's a whole line of cooking-themed video games from Nintendo, so technically the derby ITSELF should be rejected if we're following the same logic by which this design was denied.

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
Nougatrocity wrote:Copyright is a perfectly defensible reason to reject this entry. But if there's going to be a stated reason, it shouldn't be one that's so frivolous as the one given here. Heck, there's a whole line of cooking-themed video games from Nintendo, so technically the derby ITSELF should be rejected if we're following the same logic by which this design was denied.


From what I see, they give the easist reason to defend. If an entry had seven colors, they'd mention that before they went into copyright issues. Since the video game ban is a yes-no sort of thing, it's easier to say that it's from a game than to discuss whether this is parody or not.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
Nougatrocity wrote:Copyright is a perfectly defensible reason to reject this entry. But if there's going to be a stated reason, it shouldn't be one that's so frivolous as the one given here. Heck, there's a whole line of cooking-themed video games from Nintendo, so technically the derby ITSELF should be rejected if we're following the same logic by which this design was denied.


No. That's not logic. That's gross misinformation.

my presumption is that, since woot has no cojones and won't reject based on simply not wanting to print something, they invoked the VG rule here simply because there is no rule against use of pop culture in general. This could all be avoided if they'd simply put some serious reins on pop-culture, not just videogames. Or if woot didn't allow votes to be the only rubric for success.

But the rejection is still fine and good. If woot rejected a six-color portrait of the KKK burning crosses for "too many colors," I wouldn't be insisting it be brought back because in actuality, it fit the color limits

renouxa


quality posts: 0 Private Messages renouxa

My feelings are hurt at any rate. As has been stated earlier, if they wanted to reject it for copyright reasons, fine. But that at least leaves the artist another shot to make it more of a parody or more vague. Rejecting TMNT because it became a video game at some point rules that out. I wanted that shirt, and now woot has hurt my feelings. This will likely result in a boycott on my part. Follow consistent rules or have none at all!

fugitoid


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fugitoid
renouxa wrote:My feelings are hurt at any rate. As has been stated earlier, if they wanted to reject it for copyright reasons, fine. But that at least leaves the artist another shot to make it more of a parody or more vague. Rejecting TMNT because it became a video game at some point rules that out. I wanted that shirt, and now woot has hurt my feelings. This will likely result in a boycott on my part. Follow consistent rules or have none at all!


I was feeling the same way, I know it is merely a rejection of a design; but through the way it was done, I've lost some faith in this site... I might just be done with it.

IndependentVik


quality posts: 11 Private Messages IndependentVik
AdderXYU wrote:I love how there is so much defense of this entry.

Video Game, Comic, TV show, whatever. It is copyrighted material, and not the intellectual property of the designer here, with slim-at-best parody. Their REASON might be wrong, but woot has every right to reject ANY entry like this. Because if you are using someone else's work, they need to be damn confident it will be unlikely to get them sued.


I have to side with the rest, Adder; I'm irritated about this and I didn't even vote for the design (though I really did like the colors). If they rejected it and said "use of copyrighted characters with insufficient parody", fine, but the videogame rule being invoked stretches credulity.

And yes, I read your KKK analogy in another post. Like most of your analogies, it's needlessly inflammatory and has little to do with the perceived violation of the actual design in question. Of course, nobody wants a KKK entry. That's much less of a no-brainer than whether this design violates IP law.

My main issue is that woot killed this entry for the dumbest possible reason and yet ramy's entry, which has nothing to do with the theme (and will likely print terribly) has escaped the rejectionator's wrath.

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
IndependentVik wrote:I have to side with the rest, Adder; I'm irritated about this and I didn't even vote for the design (though I really did like the colors). If they rejected it and said "use of copyrighted characters with insufficient parody", fine, but the videogame rule being invoked stretches credulity.

And yes, I read your KKK analogy in another post. Like most of your analogies, it's needlessly inflammatory and has little to do with the perceived violation of the actual design in question. Of course, nobody wants a KKK entry. That's much less of a no-brainer than whether this design violates IP law.

My main issue is that woot killed this entry for the dumbest possible reason and yet ramy's entry, which has nothing to do with the theme (and will likely print terribly) has escaped the rejectionator's wrath.


Leaving out comparisons with other rejections, I'm just a little confused why the reason for this rejection is so controversial. To me, "no video game references" seems pretty cut-and-dried. It doesn't say that if it was a book or movie or cartoon as well as a game it doesn't count -- it just says that if it refers to a game it's rejected.

I could see the argument if the game sold ten copies from the bargain bin in a third-world country, but apparently a lot of people are familiar with the game, so it's not unpopular or obscure. So how would you draw the line on whether the a video game reference exists or not?

And for the record, I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
IndependentVik wrote:I have to side with the rest, Adder; I'm irritated about this and I didn't even vote for the design (though I really did like the colors). If they rejected it and said "use of copyrighted characters with insufficient parody", fine, but the videogame rule being invoked stretches credulity.

And yes, I read your KKK analogy in another post. Like most of your analogies, it's needlessly inflammatory and has little to do with the perceived violation of the actual design in question. Of course, nobody wants a KKK entry. That's much less of a no-brainer than whether this design violates IP law.

My main issue is that woot killed this entry for the dumbest possible reason and yet ramy's entry, which has nothing to do with the theme (and will likely print terribly) has escaped the rejectionator's wrath.


At woot, everything is a no-brainer.

I think it is a dumb reason for rejection, but I think people are mad because woot doesn't know their Turtles. Which is idiotic. This is not 80sculture.woot.com.

Objectively, what is so great about this shirt that requires such outrage? What is so special and original? How is it more than just using someone else's intellectual property? While I completely agree that Ramy's garbage should be rejected for being offtheme and unprintable, Ramy usually only plagiarizes himself and unknown "how to draw desu" guides. And occasionally the guy who did Staring contest.

That one person's trash isn't rejected is a pretty weak reason to defend a piece that is pretty clearly not parody. I agree that woot doesn't know their Turtle history. But when I care about them knowing their turtle history more than I care about them rejecting pop-culture without commentary or strong parody, that is when I'll complain that they goofed up which came first.

The video game excuse is simply to get rid of a shirt they wanted nothing to do with. When they can find a good excuse to do the same with Ramy, I'm sure they will. But until then, we all know they're a double edged sword. We need to be mad at what they don't do, but happy for the good decisions they make, few as they are. And axing this design was an excellent decision.

theinvisible


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theinvisible
AdderXYU wrote:At woot, everything is a no-brainer.

I think it is a dumb reason for rejection, but I think people are mad because woot doesn't know their Turtles. Which is idiotic. This is not 80sculture.woot.com.

Objectively, what is so great about this shirt that requires such outrage? What is so special and original? How is it more than just using someone else's intellectual property? While I completely agree that Ramy's garbage should be rejected for being offtheme and unprintable, Ramy usually only plagiarizes himself and unknown "how to draw desu" guides. And occasionally the guy who did Staring contest.

That one person's trash isn't rejected is a pretty weak reason to defend a piece that is pretty clearly not parody. I agree that woot doesn't know their Turtle history. But when I care about them knowing their turtle history more than I care about them rejecting pop-culture without commentary or strong parody, that is when I'll complain that they goofed up which came first.

The video game excuse is simply to get rid of a shirt they wanted nothing to do with. When they can find a good excuse to do the same with Ramy, I'm sure they will. But until then, we all know they're a double edged sword. We need to be mad at what they don't do, but happy for the good decisions they make, few as they are. And axing this design was an excellent decision.


Well said.

smileyfaceman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages smileyfaceman
HalfWheat wrote:Leaving out comparisons with other rejections, I'm just a little confused why the reason for this rejection is so controversial. To me, "no video game references" seems pretty cut-and-dried. It doesn't say that if it was a book or movie or cartoon as well as a game it doesn't count -- it just says that if it refers to a game it's rejected.

I could see the argument if the game sold ten copies from the bargain bin in a third-world country, but apparently a lot of people are familiar with the game, so it's not unpopular or obscure. So how would you draw the line on whether the a video game reference exists or not?

And for the record, I'm not arguing, I'm just curious.


Because the shirt is clearly not referencing a game but a TV/comic.

Consider Mario Brothers: a video game with a TV show and a god-awful movie. But still Mario is and always will be a video game reference.

Now consider Cookie Monster: from a TV show but also appears in multiply video games. So, Cookie Monster isn't a video game reference.

Has there even been a TMNT game made in the last 10 years?

It's a dumb reason to reject and a dumb rule outright. I can see why it was important for the Japan Derby, but other that situations like that...

kinzoku


quality posts: 17 Private Messages kinzoku
Re: tonight I dine


Maybe they thought Shredder looked like Meta Knight.

Leahbh


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Leahbh
smileyfaceman wrote:

Has there even been a TMNT game made in the last 10 years?

It's a dumb reason to reject and a dumb rule outright. I can see why it was important for the Japan Derby, but other that situations like that...



There have been teenage mutant ninja turtle video games for 20 years. It doesn't matter if cartoons or comics came first, 20 years of video games is sufficient for a rejection. Here's a list of the tmnt games of the last 20 years. As you will see there have been 2 just in the last 2 months and 10 in the last decade.

Ascended


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Ascended

My biggest problem is that they don't apply the same logic across the board. There are other shirts that have characters that are in just as many if not more video games than the turtles are but they aren't rejected. Likewise, there are some shirts that are obviously off topic and aren't rejected but other shirts might be on topic and are rejected. Basically the whole thing seems rigged. I think some of these people are just friends with whoever is deciding to reject shirts.

wcsae


quality posts: 0 Private Messages wcsae
Leahbh wrote:There have been teenage mutant ninja turtle video games for 20 years. It doesn't matter if cartoons or comics came first, 20 years of video games is sufficient for a rejection. Here's a list of the tmnt games of the last 20 years. As you will see there have been 2 just in the last 2 months and 10 in the last decade.


Following this logic this whole derby needs a reject because there are cooking games everywhere including several that were made in the past year.

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
Ascended wrote:My biggest problem is that they don't apply the same logic across the board. There are other shirts that have characters that are in just as many if not more video games than the turtles are but they aren't rejected. Likewise, there are some shirts that are obviously off topic and aren't rejected but other shirts might be on topic and are rejected. Basically the whole thing seems rigged. I think some of these people are just friends with whoever is deciding to reject shirts.


I think you'll find plenty of people who agree with that the rejections should be more consistent. But honestly, the rejections don't mean much except for designs that have a shot at printing. If something is stalled at 20 votes, it doesn't matter if it gets rejected or not as far as derby results.

But having things NOT rejected when they should be just leads to a lot of anger from the people who are rejected.

This week, they've been dealing with server issues, so that might be part of the reason for the less-than-complete rejections. But overall, they've been tending to ignore the lower ranking entries when it comes to rejections. And then once in a while, they swoop in and snag one of those.

smileyfaceman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages smileyfaceman
Leahbh wrote:There have been teenage mutant ninja turtle video games for 20 years. It doesn't matter if cartoons or comics came first, 20 years of video games is sufficient for a rejection. Here's a list of the tmnt games of the last 20 years. As you will see there have been 2 just in the last 2 months and 10 in the last decade.


I didn't know there was any recent TMNT games.

But still, where are the characters most known from? TMNT not only was a TV show in the 80s (and a comic before that), but has a rebooted TV show that I believe is still on the air today. TMNT is most known for the shows.

Batman has appeared in video games for over 20 years as well. Even an excellent one just this year. There have been at least three Batman TV shows, not counting Justice League and others where he's not the title character. There have been 6 films made, not counting the original Batman the Movie from the 60s.
And yet considering all that he will always be a comicbook reference. NOT because Batman was first a comicbook character, but because that is what he is most known for. Now you can specifically reference the various other materials Batman has been attached to, but if you're talking about Batman most people will first assume you mean the comics.

And on the other hand:
I still think it's a stupid rule. References don't automatically win derbies. And even so, I fail to see the problem. People vote for the shirts, they buy the shirts. If they didn't buy the shirts they voted for then I could see the problem.

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
smileyfaceman wrote:I didn't know there was any recent TMNT games.

But still, where are the characters most known from? TMNT not only was a TV show in the 80s (and a comic before that), but has a rebooted TV show that I believe is still on the air today. TMNT is most known for the shows.

Batman has appeared in video games for over 20 years as well. Even an excellent one just this year. There have been at least three Batman TV shows, not counting Justice League and others where he's not the title character. There have been 6 films made, not counting the original Batman the Movie from the 60s.
And yet considering all that he will always be a comicbook reference. NOT because Batman was first a comicbook character, but because that is what he is most known for. Now you can specifically reference the various other materials Batman has been attached to, but if you're talking about Batman most people will first assume you mean the comics.

And on the other hand:
I still think it's a stupid rule. References don't automatically win derbies. And even so, I fail to see the problem. People vote for the shirts, they buy the shirts. If they didn't buy the shirts they voted for then I could see the problem.


The Batman arguement would only work if there was a Batman reference in this derby that wasn't rejected. They might very well have rejected Batman if he made an appearance. The "no video game references" is fairly new. I'm sure there will be other designs that people will argue for and against in the future.

Following the rules is part of the whole derby game, and designers who flirt with breaking the rules risk being rejected.

xespera


quality posts: 0 Private Messages xespera
HalfWheat wrote:The Batman arguement would only work if there was a Batman reference in this derby that wasn't rejected. They might very well have rejected Batman if he made an appearance. The "no video game references" is fairly new. I'm sure there will be other designs that people will argue for and against in the future.

Following the rules is part of the whole derby game, and designers who flirt with breaking the rules risk being rejected.


Wolverine has appeared in several video games. He has also been in several TV series and movies and comics, and he is also on an unrejected shirt cooking marshmellows on his claws.

smileyfaceman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages smileyfaceman
HalfWheat wrote:The Batman arguement would only work if there was a Batman reference in this derby that wasn't rejected. They might very well have rejected Batman if he made an appearance. The "no video game references" is fairly new. I'm sure there will be other designs that people will argue for and against in the future.

Following the rules is part of the whole derby game, and designers who flirt with breaking the rules risk being rejected.



I simply explained why TMNT is not a video game reference by using a similar example, i.e. another pop-culture icon that met the requirements of having multiple video games yet not actually being a video game character. There doesn't have to be an actual shirt to reference to make the point I tried to make.
But if you really want one than look at this non-rejected shirt.

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=35796


Clearly Wolverine. A more stylized and copyright safe Wolvie but still obviously Logan.
XMen games have been made for 20 years. I would bet dollars to donuts that Wolverine has appeared in most if not all of them.
But Wolverine, even though he's appeared in two TV shows; four movies; and many many video games, would always be considered a comic book reference. And again, NOT because he was first a comic book but because that is what he is MOST known for.

I agree with what you said about the rules. I actually think this design would have probably been rejected because his Shredder is too darn similar to the actually copy-righted character. My beef brisket is with the idea that video games cannot be used as a reference point. I think it's a pointless rule and that we'll miss out on some fun shirts because of it. And because I thought things like this would happen, where a non-video game pop-culture reference is rejected for seemingly arbitrary reasons. You know...as opposed to all the other arbitrary reasons shirts get rejected. ^_^

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
smileyfaceman wrote:I simply explained why TMNT is not a video game reference by using a similar example, i.e. another pop-culture icon that met the requirements of having multiple video games yet not actually being a video game character. There doesn't have to be an actual shirt to reference to make the point I tried to make.
But if you really want one than look at this non-rejected shirt.

http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=35796

Clearly Wolverine. A more stylized and copyright safe Wolvie but still obviously Logan.
XMen games have been made for 20 years. I would bet dollars to donuts that Wolverine has appeared in most if not all of them.
But Wolverine, even though he's appeared in two TV shows; four movies; and many many video games, would always be considered a comic book reference. And again, NOT because he was first a comic book but because that is what he is MOST known for.

I agree with what you said about the rules. I actually think this design would have probably been rejected because his Shredder is too darn similar to the actually copy-righted character. My beef brisket is with the idea that video games cannot be used as a reference point. I think it's a pointless rule and that we'll miss out on some fun shirts because of it. And because I thought things like this would happen, where a non-video game pop-culture reference is rejected for seemingly arbitrary reasons. You know...as opposed to all the other arbitrary reasons shirts get rejected. ^_^



Woot missed a lot of rejections this time around. If that Wolverine shirt had been climbing in votes, it I suspect it would have been rejected, but they seem to be ignoring a lot of shirts that aren't getting a significant number of votes.

As far as video game references, I honestly wouldn't care if they banned all pop culture for some (or all) of the derbies. Generally I like original art better.

To be honest, I have no idea who Wolverine is, or how close to the original that character was. Not a clue. Same with Shredder. Means nothing to me and that's probably why I wasn't all that interested in the shirt. Without the reference, it wasn't as appealing as other shirts.

As far as the rules, really they're all pointless. Arbitrary. Sometimes you can use text, sometimes you can't. There's no point to it, except that's what Woot wants for a particular derby. Six colors could be five or seven. They could ban the color blue or they could ban the letter T or the use of lizards. There's no point to any of it except to change up the derby a bit. Right now, they're tired of video game references. Six months from now, they might be tired of flames or monkeys or comic book characters.

mrex99


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mrex99
HalfWheat wrote:
As far as the rules, really they're all pointless. Arbitrary. Sometimes you can use text, sometimes you can't. There's no point to it, except that's what Woot wants for a particular derby. Six colors could be five or seven. They could ban the color blue or they could ban the letter T or the use of lizards. There's no point to any of it except to change up the derby a bit. Right now, they're tired of video game references. Six months from now, they might be tired of flames or monkeys or comic book characters.


That's not really true--there are probably monetary constraints on the number of colors they can print on a shirt.

smileyfaceman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages smileyfaceman
HalfWheat wrote:

As far as video game references, I honestly wouldn't care if they banned all pop culture for some (or all) of the derbies. Generally I like original art better.


And there's your problem. Original artwork isn't inherently better than parody. (although many would argue the exact definition of parody in this case.) It boils down to a matter of taste and talent. Look at this derby. Was Ramy's "A Dangerous Concoction" better than TGentry's "Nothing Wasted"? I say no. But then again, BootsBoots "Spite" was also better. I say if people like a shirt it then it shouldn't matter if it's a parody or an absolutely original idea.



To be honest, I have no idea who Wolverine is, or how close to the original that character was. Not a clue. Same with Shredder. Means nothing to me and that's probably why I wasn't all that interested in the shirt. Without the reference, it wasn't as appealing as other shirts.


Then it shouldn't matter if they are references or not. As far as you're concerned they might as well be original artwork.


As far as the rules, really they're all pointless. Arbitrary. Sometimes you can use text, sometimes you can't. There's no point to it, except that's what Woot wants for a particular derby. Six colors could be five or seven. They could ban the color blue or they could ban the letter T or the use of lizards. There's no point to any of it except to change up the derby a bit. Right now, they're tired of video game references. Six months from now, they might be tired of flames or monkeys or comic book characters.



As someone already pointed out several of the rules are for technical limitations.

And you're right there are rules they pass to change up the derbies, like their "blue" derby. And some are they're because that's not what they want for their company, like no slogan T-Shirts. And that's my problem with this rule: I don't like the direction that it's heading.

I refuse to simply say that because they passed a rule that I need to agree with it. If I think it's a stupid rule I am going to say so.
And I have.
And I'm done.
Goodnight.

HalfWheat


quality posts: 18 Private Messages HalfWheat
smileyfaceman wrote:
And there's your problem. Original artwork isn't inherently better than parody. (although many would argue the exact definition of parody in this case.) It boils down to a matter of taste and talent. Look at this derby. Was Ramy's "A Dangerous Concoction" better than TGentry's "Nothing Wasted"? I say no. But then again, BootsBoots "Spite" was also better. I say if people like a shirt it then it shouldn't matter if it's a parody or an absolutely original idea.

...

I refuse to simply say that because they passed a rule that I need to agree with it. If I think it's a stupid rule I am going to say so.


I said that I, personally, like original artwork better than things that refer to pop culture. I didn't say that original art is inherently better, I just said that I like it better. There's a difference, and I don't think it's a problem, it's simply an opinion. If you like something different, that's not a problem, it's your opinion. I was just stating mine.

I agree that in the past there have been some good shirts that parody pop culture, but we've also had a lot of entries that referenced pop culture but were not parody, and did well in voting.

Every time there's a shirt with a known character, the arguments come around. Is it parody? Will someone sue? Will Woot reject? It's a lot of drama over a tee shirt design and it takes the attention away from other artists who are hoping for some decent feedback on their work.

A lot of the regular artists here sighed with relief when the ban was announced. Because they know that someone could slap a poorly-drawn pacman on a shirt and that design could win the derby over something that took a lot more time and effort. Simply because generations of people played pacman and are amused by the reference. So it's the reference that wins the derby, not the quality of the art.

If a parody is done well, I'm all for it. But there are plenty of things that can be parodied besides video games. It's a big world out there. Video games are a small part.

And of course you can dislike a rule. But the artists still have to follow the rule or risk rejection, whether anyone likes the rule or not.

MEMANIA


quality posts: 1 Private Messages MEMANIA
Re: tonight I dine


I think the woot folks should elaborate on this, but they won't, because they don't seem to care.

If it IS because of a "copyright" situation

I DEMAND that

http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=7762

is removed from the reckoning immediately.

snarglepuffs


quality posts: 0 Private Messages snarglepuffs
MEMANIA wrote:I think the woot folks should elaborate on this, but they won't, because they don't seem to care.

If it IS because of a "copyright" situation.


The shirt was not rejected because of copyright infringement, but rather because it is a video game reference (granted, TMNT was also a TV show, among other things), which is a violation of the rules of this derby (and all subsequent derbies, at least I think until further notice from Woot staff).

swingingchair


quality posts: 0 Private Messages swingingchair
LOVE ITTTT
Re: tonight I dine

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