Derby #41: Alphabet
+670

Alpha Battle

Alpha Battle
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littlejetties


quality posts: 0 Private Messages littlejetties
Re: Alpha Battle


Pretty Dope! Cho.

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
Re: Alpha Battle

A steroids
B omberman
C ontra
D onkey Kong
E xciteBike
F rogger
G alaga
H alo
I ndiana Jones
J oust
K atamari
L uigi
M egaman
N inja Gaiden
O regon Trail
P itfall
Q uake 1
R ayman
S uperMario x
T etris
U ltimta
V irtua fighter
W arcraft
X Men /
Y oshi
Z elda [triforce]

Iambusyeating


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Iambusyeating
Re: Alpha Battle


This will likely win.

littlejetties


quality posts: 0 Private Messages littlejetties
Re: Alpha Battle


Just a thought. You might want to change that "L" shaped tetris block. Could potentially be seen as a second letter L.

JadenKale


quality posts: 181 Private Messages JadenKale
Re: Alpha Battle


WOW CHO.... leave it to you to get as many video game references as well as movie heroes in one shirt! awesome job, as always.

Caiters


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Caiters
Re: Alpha Battle


This is AWESOME, my favorite of yours (so far)!

www.c8-bit.com

lunartan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lunartan
Re: Alpha Battle

asphalt tee + a slew of video game references = pandering
grats on the imminent fog...

crap


quality posts: 0 Private Messages crap
Re: Alpha Battle


Leave it up to cho to help me figure out what I will be doing next week on friday 1am eastern standard time.......BUYING THIS SHIRT. This is what happens woot when you suppress the video game references for a week. It comes back in the form a cho super video game shirt.

QuigglyPhD


quality posts: 0 Private Messages QuigglyPhD
Re: Alpha Battle


not your best work in my opinion. Works well for the woot crowd i guess, but compared to some of your previous entries, I have to say i'm actually a bit disappointed. Regardless of what i say, you'll still do just fine in this derby i assumea nd this will probably be yet another win in your column

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
Re: Alpha Battle


Oregon trail!

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

Discobiscuits


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Discobiscuits
eHalcyon wrote:Oregon trail!


Don't click the trashcan!!!


IMO, your best shirt so far. The colors alone work so well with the asphalt shirt.

Discobiscuits


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Discobiscuits
Discobiscuits wrote:Don't click the trashcan!!!


IMO, your best shirt so far. The colors alone work so well with the asphalt shirt.


BTW, thank you for putting Quake in there!

fleamarketadict


quality posts: 11 Private Messages fleamarketadict
littlejetties wrote:Just a thought. You might want to change that "L" shaped tetris block. Could potentially be seen as a second letter L.


And what about the "T" shaped one? Actually, any Tetris block arrangement could be considered a letter shape if you want. ( I L O S T Z )

An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

ign22401


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ign22401
Re: Alpha Battle


Too easy. I really hope woot does the right thing and axes this. Seriously... for the next derby that allows text I'm just submitting this:

"I PLAY VIDEOGAMES THAT WERE MADE IN THE '80s"

And then throwing in a random pic that fits whatever theme it is that week.

Discobiscuits


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Discobiscuits
ign22401 wrote:Too easy. I really hope woot does the right thing and axes this. Seriously... for the next derby that allows text I'm just submitting this:

"I PLAY VIDEOGAMES THAT WERE MADE IN THE '80s"

And then throwing in a random pic that fits whatever theme it is that week.


A little jealousy in the midst...

evitafjord


quality posts: 0 Private Messages evitafjord
fleamarketadict wrote:And what about the "T" shaped one? Actually, any Tetris block arrangement could be considered a letter shape if you want. ( I L O S T Z )


My daughter (9) just asked me "What's Tetris?" Sad. I should have told her "Tetris is that game that your grandma was addicted to when mommy was in middle school." Okay, so mommy was mildly addicted too. Shh.

jenny78


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jenny78
Re: Alpha Battle


Wow! Another video game shirt! Just WOW!!! OOOOOOOO and it's on assphalt???? Just WOW!!!!!

Lighter


quality posts: 10 Private Messages Lighter
lunartan wrote:asphalt tee + a slew of video game references = pandering
grats on the imminent fog...


Not at all. "Pandering" means penguins, pirates and dragons. Video games and asphalt shirt indicates great artistic choices!

dekonstruct


quality posts: 3 Private Messages dekonstruct
Re: Alpha Battle


It's pretty much a rule that I vote for anything that contains excite bike... Can this get by the rejectorator with all these copywritten video game characters in it?

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
Re: Alpha Battle


I already own Delicious ...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/DeliciousiplDetail.jpg

... and this looks too similar in my eyes to buy it.

tabrazinski


quality posts: 2 Private Messages tabrazinski
KenSPT wrote:I already own Delicious ...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/DeliciousiplDetail.jpg

... and this looks too similar in my eyes to buy it.


that's what i was vaguely reminded of too.

TurboGraphx16


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TurboGraphx16
KenSPT wrote:I already own Delicious ...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/DeliciousiplDetail.jpg

... and this looks too similar in my eyes to buy it.


I guess they look somewhat similar.

I'm just not sure I'd buy this, but it's definitely not bad at all.

TurboGraphx16


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TurboGraphx16
Re: Alpha Battle


EDIT : Just thought about what I posted and it made no sense, sorry ... :-)

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
Re: Alpha Battle


Also, on an "only Cho could get away with this side note", aren't Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Raving Rabbids, Donkey Kong, Zelda Tri-Force, and Master Chief ALL copyrighted images ... no matter how badly drawn the versions of them are?

Seriously, other people post video game related shirts and get torn apart and criticized to the point where Woot bans the references for a week, Cho makes a shirt with NOTHING BUT video game references and it flies up the fog.

Frickin' ridiculous ...

ign22401


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ign22401
Discobiscuits wrote:A little jealousy in the midst...


So if I don't shriek like a fanboy I'm automatically jealous?

The artwork is poor. It looks as though some 3rd rate Chinese company from the '80s trying to ripoff Nintendo's work.
The concept is weak and plays on a tired theme (especially around here).
The color choice is dull. There's a reason Woot had to specifically ban asphalt tees two derbies ago in addition to videogames.

There isn't anything to be jealous of. I'd be ashamed to submit something like this, especially since Cho has the talent to actually pull off some killer artwork (even if his concepts are generally lacking IMO). A damn shame.

SamoaJane


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SamoaJane
Re: Alpha Battle



Joe, are you using one of your aliases here? I know you have to be around here soon.

If any of you are friends with Samoa Joe, let him know we need to get the grass mowed before it starts raining.

mihalis aya


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mihalis aya
KenSPT wrote:I already own Delicious ...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/DeliciousiplDetail.jpg

... and this looks too similar in my eyes to buy it.


Heaven and Rejectorator forbid two shirts have a similarly shaped design!

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
mihalis aya wrote:Heaven and Rejectorator forbid two shirts have a similarly shaped design!


I'm not sure if THAT'S grounds for rejection, but the fact that this uses atleast 3 or 4 copyrighted characters has to be.

I understand that I'm seen as a Cho-Hater, and my opinion will be seen as skewed, but this is simply a bad design. This is poorly drawn video game characters, placed at random, on a hideous color shirt.

This is an example of Cho, a talented designer, catering to the lowest common denominator to ensure himself popular votes so he can ensure he gets a cool grand in his bank account.

The Woot folks hoped that upping the prize to a grand would encourage new designers to submit better work, but instead it encouraged good artists like Cho to submit uninspired designs in hopes of fattening his wallet.

This site makes me sad at times.

bluchez


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bluchez
KenSPT wrote:Seriously, other people post video game related shirts and get torn apart and criticized to the point where Woot bans the references for a week, Cho makes a shirt with NOTHING BUT video game references and it flies up the fog.

Frickin' ridiculous ...


So, you are claiming that anyone other than jamescho84 would be getting criticized, and he isn't? Have you read the thread that you have been actively participating in?

bluchez


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bluchez
KenSPT wrote:I'm not sure if THAT'S grounds for rejection, but the fact that this uses atleast 3 or 4 copyrighted characters has to be.


I would guess you are a student of the law, with all of the posts you make on this subject. Have you studied the concept of parody yet?

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
bluchez wrote:I would guess you are a student of the law, with all of the posts you make on this subject. Have you studied the idea of parody yet?


Explain to me what is a parody about this shirt?

A parody would be taking Master Chief, putting him in front of a grill, and calling him "Master Chef".

A parody would be taking Donkey Kong and having him throw a keg instead of a barrell.

A parody would be having Indiana Jones ona couch shaking, wanting some drugs, and calling him Indiana Jonesing.

What I see when I look at this shirt is poorly drawn versions of copyrighted images. There's no parody involved, and if you think there is you're just blindly supporting Cho's work.

Before you start questioning me, get a better understanding of your argument.

afb264


quality posts: 0 Private Messages afb264
mihalis aya wrote:Heaven and Rejectorator forbid two shirts have a similarly shaped design!


You never know with woot though. They reject a lot of shirts that look even remotely similar to past shirts. In the last derby, a shirt with a "Hello my name is" tag was rejected because woot already printed the "Hello, I'm IT" shirt.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
KenSPT wrote:Explain to me what is a parody about this shirt?

A parody would be taking Master Chief, putting him in front of a grill, and calling him "Master Chef".

A parody would be taking Donkey Kong and having him throw a keg instead of a barrell.

A parody would be having Indiana Jones ona couch shaking, wanting some drugs, and calling him Indiana Jonesing.

What I see when I look at this shirt is poorly drawn versions of copyrighted images. There's no parody involved, and if you think there is you're just blindly supporting Cho's work.

Before you start questioning me, get a better understanding of your argument.


It's really up to woot to decide if the use of these characters constitutes parody. They allowed a Starbucks logo to be changed to Fivebucks, so I see your point. But I am not on the woot staff, and they know how far they can go or they have lawyers who do. Some companies have no problems with use of their characters, etc., because it's free advertising. Some are very picky. We'll just haveto wait and see. Meantime, you can let woot know you have a concern, as well as letting us know.

Wappl169


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Wappl169
Re: Alpha Battle


Can someone explain to me why Pac Man shirts are ALWAYS rejected but the "likeness" of many other video games is not rejected?
I like some of cho's work, but have noticed in the past 2-3 weeks that Cho does not come on to defend any of his works (although he does comment to appraisal). Not saying he has to defend himself, cause no one wants to ever have to do that, but would be nice just to see a comment from Cho on all of this, even a thanks for the feedback or I got the idea from.....

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
Wappl169 wrote:Can someone explain to me why Pac Man shirts are ALWAYS rejected but the "likeness" of many other video games is not rejected?
I like some of cho's work, but have noticed in the past 2-3 weeks that Cho does not come on to defend any of his works (although he does comment to appraisal). Not saying he has to defend himself, cause no one wants to ever have to do that, but would be nice just to see a comment from Cho on all of this, even a thanks for the feedback or I got the idea from.....


Pacman may have nastier patent lawyers. See my other comment above.

outlawmoogle


quality posts: 2 Private Messages outlawmoogle
Re: Alpha Battle


I find it amazing that people still find it surprising that video game shirts vote highly on a website named after internet lingo.

bluchez


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bluchez
KenSPT wrote:Explain to me what is a parody about this shirt?

A parody would be taking Master Chief, putting him in front of a grill, and calling him "Master Chef".

A parody would be taking Donkey Kong and having him throw a keg instead of a barrell.

A parody would be having Indiana Jones ona couch shaking, wanting some drugs, and calling him Indiana Jonesing.

What I see when I look at this shirt is poorly drawn versions of copyrighted images. There's no parody involved, and if you think there is you're just blindly supporting Cho's work.

Before you start questioning me, get a better understanding of your argument.


So, you don't consider mario and luigi riding on the backs of yoshis pulling the Oregon trail wagon (as they did so often in their games) to be parody? I realize you specifically left out this one in your list of possible parodies, but I find the mishmash of characters interacting to be a parody. I consider them to be a humorous take on 26 different characters and items from 26 different games interacting together, which constitutes a parody to me. However, I am NOT a legal student, and do not claim to be. I am willing to let woot decide through the proper channels, i.e. a tattle.

But, I do realize that you and I differ on this. When I find something is inappropriate or borderline, I typically "TATTLE" about it, as opposed to constantly flaming the same designer's entries week after week. Like, for instance, when I thought that we were getting too many resubs in one derby (whether they were changed or not), I TATTLED on jamescho84's entry that was in the fog. Not because I had a vendetta against that designer, or was a member of a blind support club, but because it was my opinion about the design (which I later bought, so it appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds). What you tend to do, is find what you feel to be the best thing to latch onto from this particular designer's entries and complain until you are probated. I find it utterly amazing that you are so keen to find the faults in this designer's entries, and yet never speak out about anyone else. I find no posts by you in fablefire's Zelda entry, yet constant posts here. I find actual praise from you for Zeusandhera's simple Lime & Coconut entry, and yet constant flaming of the simplistic nature of jamescho84's mammoth design in multiple threads.

I think you really need to ask yourself if others are members of a fan club, or are just sick of your CONSTANT attacks on a particular artist. I tend to like to defend people that are getting attacked in a way that I feel is unfair, regardless of the designer. This makes me defend this particular artist more than others, but it is not my personal feelings that cause this, it is yours.

rolfedaus


quality posts: 1 Private Messages rolfedaus
Re: Alpha Battle


Will buy for sure when this wins the derby. I would probably pay $25+ for this shirt if I saw it in a store. Awesome.

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
Re: Alpha Battle

llo.

ianthemighty


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ianthemighty
Re: Alpha Battle


"Lowest common denominator," you say? "Pandering"? If you disagree with Woot's customers' taste, then say so. Try to convince them to vote for and buy a shirt that's more to your liking.

But like that other guy said, your arguments for rejection are completely misplaced in the discussion thread -- TATTLE, and stop making my eyes sore. If you convince me that Cho's broken the rules, what am I going to do, not buy a shirt I like? PLEASE.

ianthemighty


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ianthemighty
Re: Alpha Battle


Also, GMV for Ultima, even if you misspelled it in your explanation.

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
KenSPT wrote:Explain to me what is a parody about this shirt?


This is a parody because it imagines a variety of video game characters (all altered from the copyrighted form) as being trapped in an epic battle with each other. I've seen editorial cartoons do similar things with game characters, usually when two big releases are due out at the same time- to me, this much more elaborate version is showing the same sort of thing. It's funny to me because apart from the fighting that most of these characters do with their games, they really DO fight with each other in the real world for sales.

It's a little odd to me that people are up in arms about this one- one of the reasons I like it is that it's different in style than most of the other entries Cho has done. His stuff usually has a very illustrative look, but this time he's trying out something very vector based with solid colors.

Since this is one of three shirts submitted this week so far that I'd actually pay for, it has my vote. (The other two are Edgar's I Like Books and Radiomode's Z Is For ZZZZ, and I'm on the fence with Gentry's Monkey Play- that one might have my vote by the end of the derby.)

fablefire


quality posts: 24 Private Messages fablefire
Re: Alpha Battle


Awwweeeesooome.

Good luck on the parody battle. <3

Dynamo418


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Dynamo418

Wait, wait just a minute here. Cho is making designs that people like, and the purpose behind said designs is to MAKE MONEY!??!??! I thought he was doing it for fun; nay, i thought he was supposed to only design shirts I saw as quality! Where can i complain! Who can i sue???

kroner


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kroner
I assume that means you voted for my shirt in the "year you were born derby" but I can't say for sure since i am clearly not popular enough to ever win one of these derbies.

Re: 1985

kroner


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kroner
dekonstruct wrote:It's pretty much a rule that I vote for anything that contains excite bike... Can this get by the rejectorator with all these copywritten video game characters in it?


above ^

bluchez


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bluchez
dekonstruct wrote:It's pretty much a rule that I vote for anything that contains excite bike.


So am I not the only one who has this in their closet?



Edit: (Yes, I realize I probably am.)

macntosh


quality posts: 0 Private Messages macntosh
Re: Alpha Battle


I just think he used L twice, once in Tetris and the other above Luigi. But hey I'm not woot.

gacibula


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gacibula

Great shirt, lets hope these Druish princess bags don't get it rejected, solely due to the fact that they can't think up a shirt like this on their own. Hell... they will probably be the first to buy it too.

GREAT SHIRT!

illushin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages illushin
Re: Alpha Battle


I like it, not sure whether they'll allow the Ts and Ls, but it's a cool idea.

fleamarketadict


quality posts: 11 Private Messages fleamarketadict
Wappl169 wrote:Can someone explain to me why Pac Man shirts are ALWAYS rejected but the "likeness" of many other video games is not rejected?
I like some of cho's work, but have noticed in the past 2-3 weeks that Cho does not come on to defend any of his works (although he does comment to appraisal). Not saying he has to defend himself, cause no one wants to ever have to do that, but would be nice just to see a comment from Cho on all of this, even a thanks for the feedback or I got the idea from.....


I see by your "JOINED" date that you weren't around when Cho got fed up with being flamed for trying to defend his earlier designs and left us for a while. When he came back he said he would stay out of the debates and let his designs stand on their own merits. So far it has worked out pretty good for him.

An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

hmmxkrazee


quality posts: 0 Private Messages hmmxkrazee
Re: Alpha Battle


Great shirt. I would definitely buy this one.

It's cute and well-drawn. And stop complaining about 'this artist doing that or this or whatever when they should be doing this or that". Blame the woot voters. You CAN satisfy the woot crowd while maintaining quality. Not everything has to be a visual masterpiece. These are shirt designs for crying out loud.

2thFairy


quality posts: 2 Private Messages 2thFairy
ign22401 wrote:So if I don't shriek like a fanboy I'm automatically jealous?

The artwork is poor. It looks as though some 3rd rate Chinese company from the '80s trying to ripoff Nintendo's work.
The concept is weak and plays on a tired theme (especially around here).
The color choice is dull. There's a reason Woot had to specifically ban asphalt tees two derbies ago in addition to videogames.

There isn't anything to be jealous of. I'd be ashamed to submit something like this, especially since Cho has the talent to actually pull off some killer artwork (even if his concepts are generally lacking IMO). A damn shame.


I concur.

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
2thFairy wrote:I concur.

I concur too. James Cho vacuums at concepts, he also vacuums at execution, makes stuff absolutely unwearable, sometimes too detailed, sometimes too simple, too muted, too silly, and on top of that, he panders. Shame indeed.

ilstu99


quality posts: 5 Private Messages ilstu99
PetervG wrote:This is excellet, but I must ask because I am new. How do I vote?


You have to make at least one purchase from any of the woot.com sites....woot.com, wine.woot, shirt.woot or sellout.woot. Then you get a special decoder ring, a crown and the right to vote.

jeezpf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jeezpf
outlawmoogle wrote:I find it amazing that people still find it surprising that video game shirts vote highly on a website named after internet lingo.


HAHAHAHAHA! AWESOME!

gvw47


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gvw47
SamoaJane wrote:Joe, are you using one of your aliases here? I know you have to be around here soon.

If any of you are friends with Samoa Joe, let him know we need to get the grass mowed before it starts raining.


Jokes don't get any older than the SamoaJane one. The Cho-defender without a sense of humor strikes again.

snarkygal


quality posts: 5 Private Messages snarkygal
Re: Alpha Battle


There seems to be some people on this site that, no matter what kind of design Jamescho84 creates, will heap nothing but scorn on. They are determined to once again drive him away from shirt.woot and then we all shall lose the possibility of owning some great tshirts.

There can be no doubt that Jamescho84 is a very talented designer. Please ignore all these pond scum and concentrate on the designs Cho puts up for voting every week and ignore the obvious trolls, who come out of the woodwork solely to heap their venom aimed at only this one designer.

macntosh


quality posts: 0 Private Messages macntosh
jamescho84 wrote:I concur too. James Cho vacuums at concepts, he also vacuums at execution, makes stuff absolutely unwearable, sometimes too detailed, sometimes too simple, too muted, too silly, and on top of that, he panders. Shame indeed.


No Truer words are spoken. llo

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
gvw47 wrote:Jokes don't get any older than the SamoaJane one. The Cho-defender without a sense of humor strikes again.


regardless of what I think of Cho's submissions week to week, I am always charmed by SamoaJane, as she is not a Cho supporter so much as a foil to a troll who, whether cho submits a penguin or the pieta, has to toss venom his way just because he's Cho. If the guy decided to exclusively attack someone else instead, SamoaJane would surely follow.

That said, I hope she divorces that loser and hooks up with a real man. preferably one named Adder.

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
AdderXYU wrote:regardless of what I think of Cho's submissions week to week, I am always charmed by SamoaJane, as she is not a Cho supporter so much as a foil to a troll who, whether cho submits a penguin or the pieta, has to toss venom his way just because he's Cho. If the guy decided to exclusively attack someone else instead, SamoaJane would surely follow.

That said, I hope she divorces that loser and hooks up with a real man. preferably one named Adder.



So Adder, ye' of hurling criticism at so many shirts, you're not looking at this design by Cho and thinking it's unoriginal, uninspired, or flat out against any of Woot rules?

You criticize so many shirts and designers on this site that I find it hard to believe that this is something that you're in love with.

Is this another situation of Cho being above criticism because of his "reputation"?

mahowes


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mahowes

Stop pandering to my excellent taste in artwork and classic video games, JEEZ.

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
KenSPT wrote:So Adder, ye' of hurling criticism at so many shirts, you're not looking at this design by Cho and thinking it's unoriginal, uninspired, or flat out against any of Woot rules?

You criticize so many shirts and designers on this site that I find it hard to believe that this is something that you're in love with.

Is this another situation of Cho being above criticism because of his "reputation"?


My stance on shirts like this is "at least Cho's around." I don't love that it has done so well already, though I'm glad he threw Mega Man in. It is incredibly frustrating to me any time ANY designer I like does something like this, but the way I see it, until we start seeing more top-notch designers (which will be a double-edged sword if the ones we already have keep playing to the market instead of their heart, since I've said a million times before, very few top notch designers will come to the derby so long as memes, not shirts, top the charts) I have had a policy of keeping my mouth shut, in hopes of keeping the potential around instead of diluting the talent pool even more.

it's called "business". my business around here is fighting off the average tasteless wooter. I'm not about to do anything that will compromise that. I think it's vital to remember that even when cho takes a subject that woot will lap up, he does it better than just about anyone else would. I'd love more stuff from him like "Caution, Octopus", but until then, I see it as "at least someone who put in serious art time is getting the money"

redghia69


quality posts: 1 Private Messages redghia69

Always a saga in the Cho threads.

When I first saw this one, I thought it was tongue-in-cheek, after the previous derbies of “no asphalt” and “no video games”. He had to figure it was even odds on being rejected for copyright issues, which may be part of the reason we don’t see intricate line-work. Maybe we’ll get a new permanent “no video games” rule out of this, whether it survives the derby or not – and maybe Cho is actually hoping for that. If I’m going to spend much more time on this site, I’d really rather compete against artwork and originality than the popularity of video games. My guess is Cho (and many others) would agree. As it stands though, this is absolutely fair game. If woot doesn’t see a copyright issue, why shouldn’t people have the chance to vote on it, and Cho benefit as a result? It’s sure to sell out.

SpaceJock


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SpaceJock
Discobiscuits wrote:A little jealousy in the midst...


No, he has a point.

~ Wireless Garden Yada Headset Hub – 2 Pack
~ Razer Diamondback 1600dpi Gaming Mouse (Blue)
~ Steelsound 5H USB V2 Professional Gaming Headset
~ Wowwee Roboquad Interactive Robot
~ Altec Lansing M604 Powered Audio System for Zune
~ Razer Protone m250 Street-Style Clip Earphones x2

raytendo


quality posts: 1 Private Messages raytendo
Re: Alpha Battle


i totally got 95% of all the characters there *giggles*. make mega man blue, and lose that middle triangle in the center of the triforce and i'll defintely be in for one. amazing design nonetheless. gaming references ftw. i hope you make many more.. well hm maybe not so much, i'll go broke.

ign22401


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ign22401
jamescho84 wrote:I concur too. James Cho vacuums at concepts, he also vacuums at execution, makes stuff absolutely unwearable, sometimes too detailed, sometimes too simple, too muted, too silly, and on top of that, he panders. Shame indeed.


I'd just like to make clear that I'm not one of the masses who will discredit a shirt just because you made it. I voted for treacherous waters v2 (even though it was a resub and I generally detest that practice - this was a vast improvement w/the color change), although I didn't buy one because I thought the man on the dock ruined it too much to be wearable. Clearly a few thousand people disagreed, as they usually do. But it was a case of your execution ruining an otherwise PHENOMENAL design for me.

Point is though, I'm almost always in awe of your artwork, but this one is extremely lacking. As someone pointed out, MegaMan is blue, and you already had blue in your design. Professor X looks like the pig-faced guy from LotR, your yoshi's are too "off" for me, and the triforce isn't solid in the middle. It also is certainly pandering. Just like Duck Hunt was, and your two penguin designs (counting the one that eventually became an ostrich). I'd go on... but since you've had like 12395 designs printed here I think I'd develop carpel tunnel typing everything. Some stand on their own, some require a HEAVY lean on a popular theme.

Even people who are the best at what they do can improve, and I think you have a lot of room to. This design does nothing to help towards that end, nor does a post like yours there where you blow off everything people have to say, rather than trying to wade through the bitterness and see if maybe some might just have a valid point you can use to improve.

Glentastic


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Glentastic
Re: Alpha Battle

Love the tshirt

Glentastic

talbotini


quality posts: 0 Private Messages talbotini
ign22401 wrote:Too easy. I really hope woot does the right thing and axes this. Seriously... for the next derby that allows text I'm just submitting this:

"I PLAY VIDEOGAMES THAT WERE MADE IN THE '80s"

And then throwing in a random pic that fits whatever theme it is that week.


Seriously people... this is getting out of hand.

talbotini


quality posts: 0 Private Messages talbotini

cho + video games = automatic fog

talbotini


quality posts: 0 Private Messages talbotini
snarkygal wrote:There seems to be some people on this site that, no matter what kind of design Jamescho84 creates, will heap nothing but scorn on. They are determined to once again drive him away from shirt.woot and then we all shall lose the possibility of owning some great tshirts.

There can be no doubt that Jamescho84 is a very talented designer. Please ignore all these pond scum and concentrate on the designs Cho puts up for voting every week and ignore the obvious trolls, who come out of the woodwork solely to heap their venom aimed at only this one designer.


I think people just log on each week, look for Cho's design(s) and vote for them. Just because they are his. He has made some awesome designs, but this weeks shirt is proof that he can design whatever the heck he wants and it will win. Throw in a handful of video game references, and everyone else might as well resign.

Wappl169


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Wappl169
Re: Alpha Battle


I agree with the comments about Adder, seems to be that you dont want to upset the flow of Cho. Personally I think Adder and Cho are on the take from Woot. It's a conspiracy I tell ya.

Seriously, this shirt has 2 T's and 2 L's on it, which is against the rules for this week. Other shirts have already been rejected because of this, but this shirt has remained ? Rules are rules and EVERYONE needs to abide by them regardless of who you are.

ign22401


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ign22401
Wappl169 wrote:
Seriously, this shirt has 2 T's and 2 L's on it, which is against the rules for this week. Other shirts have already been rejected because of this, but this shirt has remained ? Rules are rules and EVERYONE needs to abide by them regardless of who you are.


[sarcasm] Not to mention that Donkey Kong's nipples are clearly both tiny "o's"... [/sarcasm]

shan24


quality posts: 3 Private Messages shan24
Re: Alpha Battle

I have to say that this is one of my favorite Cho shirts. It's not necessarily the detailed style we are used to from Cho but it's the subject matter that makes this one of my favorites. I grew up with these games, thanks in large part to my brother, and I think a lot of people are nostalgiac for all these old games. I would probably buy this even though I already own the Delicious shirt which has the same sort of composition. I had Excitebike (I believe that's a hill from Excitebike, not a Triforce), I played Donkey Kong at the arcade, played all the Mario and Zelda incarnations, etc. so wearing this shirt would mean more to me than the Treacherous Waters shirt that to me is about fishing (my husband owns that one).

I feel sorry for James and commend him for not responding to all these posts, as judging from the past I am sure he wants to do. It seems like half the comments are about how MegaMan isn't blue and Yoshi looks a little different, and the other half is worried about how similar his design is to the originals and calling copyright issues. In my opinion this is the artist's interpretation of the characters and most of the votes are because of its overall look and the nostalgia factor, not because of who designed it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just wanted to get mine out here. And those are Tetris pieces, not an L and a T.

Hudog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Hudog
Dynamo418 wrote:Wait, wait just a minute here. Cho is making designs that people like, and the purpose behind said designs is to MAKE MONEY!??!??! I thought he was doing it for fun; nay, i thought he was supposed to only design shirts I saw as quality! Where can i complain! Who can i sue???


llo!

Sadly, I can't vote for this. I keep looking at it, and the only thing I can think is "why the hell does Professor X have a teddy bear head?"

Gyrolin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Gyrolin

to ign:



really, all I've heard you do is complain...

he waded through the criticism enough to note what you said and to blow it off.. the real problem is no one is giving him advice he can use... like you, for example, just whining about what is "not correct" or "could be better"

my advice to you is, if you want to actually help Cho, tell him what to fix or don't say anything at all

example:
to say, "these eggs don't taste right," gives NO guidance what so ever to the chef, but to say, "these eggs are too salty," is actually helpful to both parties and not a waste of time

so until you can think of something USEFUL to say, just stop posting

thanks

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

talbotini wrote:I think people just log on each week, look for Cho's design(s) and vote for them. Just because they are his. He has made some awesome designs, but this weeks shirt is proof that he can design whatever the heck he wants and it will win. Throw in a handful of video game references, and everyone else might as well resign.

It is possible, but you have to realize that they've got to look for those designs because the only way to see who it's by is to view the larger image (or when he posts and asks for votes or something). There are no names on the main derby page. That either means his style is immediately recognizable, they hunt through a lot of entries, or they only click on what interests them and a lot of Cho's entries happen to fall into that group.

I'm not saying anything for or against this design. I just want to clarify that there's no easy way to be a "blind fan" in the derby unless there's a distinctive style. And this particular one doesn't fit that style, so there must be another explanation.

...I hope that made sense. >_<;

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
Wappl169 wrote:I agree with the comments about Adder, seems to be that you dont want to upset the flow of Cho. Personally I think Adder and Cho are on the take from Woot. It's a conspiracy I tell ya.

Seriously, this shirt has 2 T's and 2 L's on it, which is against the rules for this week. Other shirts have already been rejected because of this, but this shirt has remained ? Rules are rules and EVERYONE needs to abide by them regardless of who you are.



Cho could go to SnorgTees, or Busted Tees, and just flat out rip off a design and everyone here would say it's his original work.

People like Adder will say these Derbies are a joke because sometimes uncreative shirts win. Personally, I think these Derbies are a joke because certain people can break the rules and others can't.

It's been stated on many occasions in this thread that this shirt has copyrighted characters, more than one use of letter, and a theme that Woot asked not to be used again ... yet here it stands.

Things have been rejected for far less, and people like Adder have rallied for the rejection of shirts with far less. Yet, if it's Cho, it's okay.

B ... S ...

KenSPT


quality posts: 0 Private Messages KenSPT
superspryte wrote:

I'm not saying anything for or against this design.


That right there is the problem Spryte.

I don't want to attack you, but you obviously have to have an opinion on this design, and you won't say a thing ... because it's Cho.

You've spoken out for and against shirts in the past, why nothing against this one? Why will you hold our tongue?

The double standard in this place is beyond ridiculous.

I've read threads and threads from people rallying behind rejecting shirts that had far less reason to be rejected than this. Yet, with a Cho design, you, Adder, Brizz, and the rest of the crew who are normally very opinionated, shut their mouths and let him do his thing.

Even Adder has ADMITTED to not speaking out against the design in hopes of not upsetting Cho. Adder would have tattled INSTANTLY if anyone else designed this !!!

That's just not right.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

KenSPT wrote:That right there is the problem Spryte.

I don't want to attack you, but you obviously have to have an opinion on this design, and you won't say a thing ... because it's Cho.

You've spoken out for and against shirts in the past, why nothing against this one? Why will you hold our tongue?

The double standard in this place is beyond ridiculous.

I've read threads and threads from people rallying behind rejecting shirts that had far less reason to be rejected than this. Yet, with a Cho design, you, Adder, Brizz, and the rest of the crew who are normally very opinionated, shut their mouths and let him do his thing.

Even Adder has ADMITTED to not speaking out against the design in hopes of not upsetting Cho. Adder would have tattled INSTANTLY if anyone else designed this !!!

That's just not right.

I actually don't have an opinion of it any which way. It's neither remarkable nor terrible. If I had an opinion I'd give it. ^_~

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

dsladek


quality posts: 1 Private Messages dsladek
KenSPT wrote:That right there is the problem Spryte.

I don't want to attack you, but you obviously have to have an opinion on this design, and you won't say a thing ... because it's Cho.

You've spoken out for and against shirts in the past, why nothing against this one? Why will you hold our tongue?

The double standard in this place is beyond ridiculous.

I've read threads and threads from people rallying behind rejecting shirts that had far less reason to be rejected than this. Yet, with a Cho design, you, Adder, Brizz, and the rest of the crew who are normally very opinionated, shut their mouths and let him do his thing.

Even Adder has ADMITTED to not speaking out against the design in hopes of not upsetting Cho. Adder would have tattled INSTANTLY if anyone else designed this !!!

That's just not right.


If their is anyone else who has a problem with this shirt please tattle. you can do this by simple clicking on the "tattle on this" button in the upper right hand corner of the image. don't be obscene or rude just simply state that this design violates copyright laws and woot rules by using copyrighted characters. they are not cho's to use without written permission from Microsoft and others. as far as this being called a parody, it is not. I have read up on the laws of parody and this does not fit the bill. If Jamescho84 has an explanation as to how his design passes as a parody then let him come forward and say it. otherwise this shirt has to be rejected.

jimiyo


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jimiyo
KenSPT wrote:Cho could go to SnorgTees, or Busted Tees, and just flat out rip off a design and everyone here would say it's his original work.

People like Adder will say these Derbies are a joke because sometimes uncreative shirts win. Personally, I think these Derbies are a joke because certain people can break the rules and others can't.

It's been stated on many occasions in this thread that this shirt has copyrighted characters, more than one use of letter, and a theme that Woot asked not to be used again ... yet here it stands.

Things have been rejected for far less, and people like Adder have rallied for the rejection of shirts with far less. Yet, if it's Cho, it's okay.

B ... S ...


bullet points for Easy

1. this design is good. will sell very well I think...
2. there is no derby rule broken here. this may skirt copyright issues, but so did fables very popular zelda shirt. thats up to woot.
3. you are really good at threadcrapping, but its probably counterproductive to your cause, cause this thread gets bumped, and you arose publicity.

I think you must be Cho... (HAHAHA... remember that dead weasels? I DO! FOREVER, but it does not disqualify you from free tshirts if ever.)

4. that one 'similar' shirt you linked is ugly IM-"artist"-O. the choice colors are very ugly-duckling.
5. the artwork is good. its much better than most of the designs in the derby. so why complain about it, if you say the derby is a joke. because most of the time, artwise, it is a joke. go threadcrap in the really crappy designs.
6. asphalt is not a hideous color shirt, unless you feel it reflects the gray gloom that needs to hate and take sunshine away, kinda like... your attitude.
7. on pandering to the lowest common demoninator. even if he is, every derby entry and piece of art, he gets art experience points so he will continue to get better and better... and really... art... commerce... we do what we do to make money. do you have a job? to get paid? arent you going the way of the lowest common denominator with benefits... the way of the status quo? cho dont know status quo.

8. i am not certain, but i think Cho just recently began his journey as an illustration artist. to attack him for his ability, which is good and attractive, is like telling a child who draws stick figures that he vacuums. well... stick figures that are super good. im not trying to compare his work to stick figures, just the situation.

9. bluchez has a rad shirt. it has excitebike on it. people like excitebike.

10. all is fair in love and woot. so you can have your say too, although people not agree with it.

the way you express your opinions vacuums. But i admire that you are unwaivering and bold. just like cho. **** i take back this comment... you crossed the line when you told blu, that he and his family? shoudl get hurt. get in a car accident. theres something wrong with that. thats totally socially unacceptable. being aggressive with an opinion is fine, but wishing physical harm over some internet debate is ridiculous.

** I hadnt voted yet, because, he doesnt need my vote, but because of your replies in his comments, he's got another vote.

jimiyo


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jimiyo
Gyrolin wrote:to ign:

example:
to say, "these eggs don't taste right," gives NO guidance what so ever to the chef, but to say, "these eggs are too salty," is actually helpful to both parties and not a waste of time


i licked the screen. your design is not salty.

dsladek


quality posts: 1 Private Messages dsladek
jimiyo wrote:i licked the screen. your design is not salty.


hahahahaha! thats gross! I have no idea what you are talking about but that's hilarious!

by the way awesome tiger illustration Jimiyo! may I ask what medium it is in?

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
jimiyo wrote:2. there is no derby rule broken here. this may skirt copyright issues, but so did fables very popular zelda shirt. thats up to woot.


I agree with this, tho I think it's pretty squarely out of copyright concerns because of parody.

Here is what a parody is: "A parody exists when one imitates a serious piece of work, such as literature, music or artwork, for a humorous or satirical effect. Parody, as a method of criticism, has been a very popular means for authors, entertainers and advertisers to communicate a particular message or point of view to the public."

Here is what I see happening in Cho's shirt: "This is a parody because it imagines a variety of video game characters (all altered from the copyrighted form) as being trapped in an epic battle with each other. I've seen editorial cartoons do similar things with game characters, usually when two big releases are due out at the same time- to me, this much more elaborate version is showing the same sort of thing. It's funny to me because apart from the fighting that most of these characters do with their games, they really DO fight with each other in the real world for sales."

Posters can agree or disagree on whether that is funny, or whether you like the shirt. They can even argue about whether this is a parody in their opinion. But to say that it clearly isn't parody is a false statement, because there are certainly arguments to be made that it is one.

jimiyo


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jimiyo
dsladek wrote:hahahahaha! thats gross! I have no idea what you are talking about but that's hilarious!

by the way awesome tiger illustration Jimiyo! may I ask what medium it is in?


photosop and pencil dsladek, artist friend. you have some really sweet illustrations. glad to see you sticking around yo.

addition to salty comment.

although Cho, i taste a little msg, me wantz more. ;j

2thFairy


quality posts: 2 Private Messages 2thFairy
jimiyo wrote:i licked the screen. your design is not salty.


hahahaha!!

bluchez


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bluchez
Re: Alpha Battle


TO EVERYONE: Please, for the love of all that is holy and good in this world, both sides have said their piece. It is only Sunday and there is so much hatred in here, it is impossible to know what is what.

I will personally submit this tattle, trying to summarize what has been detailed here (whether I believe any of it or not), and encourage anyone who has an issue to do similarly instead of rehashing the same arguments over and over here.

To Woot:

These were points brought up by forum users and may or may not reflect my own opinion, but I wanted to make sure that they were entered into the proper "tattle" system.
1) It appears that this shirt contains characters that were in popular video games. Please consider whether this legal or not with your staff, and let us know your decision.
2) It appears that the Tetris blocks make up letters. If these are viewed as letters, please note that there are an actual T and L on the shirt.
3) There is concern about people not complaining enough about this shirt (I'm not sure what you can do about that one).
4) There is a concern about designers pandering to the wishes of the voters and buyers. Please see if you can put a stop to this.
5) There is concern that the user jamescho84 gets votes solely on his username.


Edit: I now see that while I was writing this, I was personally attacked and had death wished upon me and my family. I choose not to respond to this, and encourage others to do the same.

rglee129


quality posts: 28 Private Messages rglee129
Re: Alpha Battle


Beautiful. Art is all about making decisions, and there were lots of great decisions you obviously made in designing this piece. Especially the Oregon Trail idea. Awesome.






dsladek


quality posts: 1 Private Messages dsladek
bluchez wrote:


very well put Bluchez, I agree. if everyone spent as much time praising shirt designs they like, as they do bashing the ones they hate then I bet a lot more people would be happy.

everyone-please stop with the ranting. notify woot as i did if you have a problem with a design. that is why they have a tattle option.

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
Re: Alpha Battle


Wow, I am really surprised by the tone of this thread. I realize there is $1000 on the line, but the venom (on either side) isn't really needed. I don't mean this as personal attack against anyone specific, it is just disappointing that something that is supposed to be fun isn't.

In response to some notes here that I hope will be considered when evaluating the shirt: I will admit when I first looked at this shirt, I saw the Tetris blocks and thought they were letters, but as they are just pictures of actual things, it is no different than having a picture of an animal with eyes; they eyes may look like "O"s, but they aren't. The same could be said about the line between parody usage of the video game figures or copy write infringement. However, I am not the one that makes the decisions, woot makes the rules and enforces them. It is their site.

On a more personal note, the name jamescho is recognizable to many in the derby, even myself, and I am pretty new, and I look forward to seeing what he posts. Based on this thread the recognition has both high and low points. I wouldn't really consider it pandering to post here shirts that the voters would like, for 1) if he is here, it is likely he would have the same interests, and therefore would be interested in a shirt with video game characters on it (which, based on the votes, many here are), and 2) it would be appropriate to post a design like that here. A design of kitties and puppies frolicking on a pink shirt would probably be better off being sold on a personal website (should he choose) or a site that isn't woot. And honestly, I don't know Cho, and I doubt many here do outside of his shirts or other forum postings, so I find the personal attacks on him surprising.

Anyway, I digress, and I hope I haven't fanned the flames. It is understandable to post a concern to give the artist a chance to alter the design should they choose, but venomous arguments aren't necessary. Simply Tattle if you wish, or say "Good Job" if you wish. So... I hope the shirt is printed, I would love to own it. I hope I have a reason to get out of bed in the middle of the night to purchase it. Good luck, jamescho. Keep producing your fun and amusing shirts!

And sorry for the rambling! Have a great weekend everyone!

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
Re: Alpha Battle

Re: Alpha Battle

Since Derby 1 I've noticed at this site in particular, that the "community" here has been very strong about making their points. Sometimes it's for the good of the site, at other times it's about personal motive and trying to establish why their particular taste of things is better than someone elses. At one point, I was the latter - I got really frustrated on how certain things were doing better than my own and others, and why even if I poured heart and soul into a design - it would lose to some slogan. At one point I became so frustrated that I left for a couple of months, until I decided to give it another try. Even still, I look at some of the winning designs and think - as i'm sure many of you have said "uh.. why did this win?" <-- but at its core, I know now whatever I personally think about it, many others had a different opinion and in that respect, they did deserve to print.

This is a contest - unlike any other contest i've entered where winners are strictly printed by democracy - by the voters. In that sense, if you wanted to win this contest, you'd not only have to keep in mind - theme and your own personal style, but the people you are making the shirt for - the people who are voting for your shirt. I see so many talented illustrators, [and by all means, you all are far better at that than I am] who say how "discouraged" they are when they aren't getting votes, and how if "art" isn't appreciated here and how you should take your work elsewhere. That's cool, I was on that same boat once - but I realized that I can do what I love to do, while also keeping in mind who i'm designing for. If you have clients in any field of the design industry, and you design strictly for "yourself" I don't think you'd have many returning customers. If you do only want to do that - design for yourself - nobody is stopping you, but don't say you're discouraged by why everyone doesn't share the same definition of what's "right" for a shirt design, let alone any design. You have 60,000 people hitting this site a day - who are you all to tell them that YOU have better taste than them?

As for this video game shirt? I grew up with these video games. There are one or two I haven't touched on this list, but I loved almost all of these games. When I thought about this theme, I figured the only way to create a good shirt would be to follow the route of the Alphabet Zoo design from threadless. Which is to have a composition of elements with a common theme. Before I designed this, I asked myself if this would be something i'd wear, then asked if it would be something others would wear - and both answers came to yes so I started sketching it out. Personally, I love video game shirts, and have bought most of the ones this site has offered so far - It goes well with all the quakecon shirts I have and the bfg tech shirts I got when I was competing back in high school days. I however, am not too cultured or sophisticated, so I don't own shirts with literary references, or think I would want to {no offense travis, I still love you and voted for you :}} - so I besides my Moby beautiful tulip shirt (which in my defense, ahab had a butterfly net) I don't think i'd make something very high-brow, or what some of you posters might be looking for. Point is, I have no problem designing shirts that others would want as well as I would want.

For the people creating new accounts to be negative on particularly my designs every week? Please keep doing it, because i'm not going to quit coming here because of you. If it justifies your existence for a moment - to feel important on an internet forum, be my guest. I'll keep doing what I like to do, which is design for this audience whether you have an issue with me or not.

Sorry for the long post, as I don't post often - but from it I hope you can understand where i'm coming from. I've designed nearly 100 designs for this contest so far, and I plan on doing a lot more. Thanks for reading.

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
jamescho84 wrote:Sorry for the long post, as I don't post often - but from it I hope you can understand where i'm coming from. I've designed nearly 100 designs for this contest so far, and I plan on doing a lot more. Thanks for reading.


I haven't liked every design you've posted, but I've liked a lot of them. Thanks for sticking around, seriously. Each artist, designer or poster who puts something of themselves into this community makes it a better place.

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving the voters what they want- especially since in this case, it's also what I want ;)

I'm not a huge video game shirts person, but a funny and well-designed one will have my vote every time.

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
jamescho84 wrote:Since Derby 1 I've noticed at this site in particular, that the "community" here has been very strong about making their points. [stuff] Thanks for reading.


Extraordinarily well said, and very reasonably put. I hope I have the opportunity to see many more of your shirts.

Andy47240


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Andy47240
jamescho84 wrote:Good stuff...

Glad to hear from you James! I know you don't, but please don't ever let this stuff bother you. As you know, this is not real life here and it's not what matters in the big picture. Just have fun and do what you do.
-Andy



Lighter


quality posts: 10 Private Messages Lighter
jamescho84 wrote:Sorry for the long post,


Excellent post.

snarkygal


quality posts: 5 Private Messages snarkygal
jamescho84 wrote:Since Derby 1 I've noticed at this site in particular, that the "community" here has been very strong about making their points. Sometimes it's for the good of the site, at other times it's about personal motive and trying to establish why their particular taste of things is better than someone elses. At one point, I was the latter - I got really frustrated on how certain things were doing better than my own and others, and why even if I poured heart and soul into a design - it would lose to some slogan. At one point I became so frustrated that I left for a couple of months, until I decided to give it another try. Even still, I look at some of the winning designs and think - as i'm sure many of you have said "uh.. why did this win?" <-- but at its core, I know now whatever I personally think about it, many others had a different opinion and in that respect, they did deserve to print.

This is a contest - unlike any other contest i've entered where winners are strictly printed by democracy - by the voters. In that sense, if you wanted to win this contest, you'd not only have to keep in mind - theme and your own personal style, but the people you are making the shirt for - the people who are voting for your shirt. I see so many talented illustrators, [and by all means, you all are far better at that than I am] who say how "discouraged" they are when they aren't getting votes, and how if "art" isn't appreciated here and how you should take your work elsewhere. That's cool, I was on that same boat once - but I realized that I can do what I love to do, while also keeping in mind who i'm designing for. If you have clients in any field of the design industry, and you design strictly for "yourself" I don't think you'd have many returning customers. If you do only want to do that - design for yourself - nobody is stopping you, but don't say you're discouraged by why everyone doesn't share the same definition of what's "right" for a shirt design, let alone any design. You have 60,000 people hitting this site a day - who are you all to tell them that YOU have better taste than them?

As for this video game shirt? I grew up with these video games. There are one or two I haven't touched on this list, but I loved almost all of these games. When I thought about this theme, I figured the only way to create a good shirt would be to follow the route of the Alphabet Zoo design from threadless. Which is to have a composition of elements with a common theme. Before I designed this, I asked myself if this would be something i'd wear, then asked if it would be something others would wear - and both answers came to yes so I started sketching it out. Personally, I love video game shirts, and have bought most of the ones this site has offered so far - It goes well with all the quakecon shirts I have and the bfg tech shirts I got when I was competing back in high school days. I however, am not too cultured or sophisticated, so I don't own shirts with literary references, or think I would want to {no offense travis, I still love you and voted for you :}} - so I besides my Moby beautiful tulip shirt (which in my defense, ahab had a butterfly net) I don't think i'd make something very high-brow, or what some of you posters might be looking for. Point is, I have no problem designing shirts that others would want as well as I would want.

For the people creating new accounts to be negative on particularly my designs every week? Please keep doing it, because i'm not going to quit coming here because of you. If it justifies your existence for a moment - to feel important on an internet forum, be my guest. I'll keep doing what I like to do, which is design for this audience whether you have an issue with me or not.

Sorry for the long post, as I don't post often - but from it I hope you can understand where i'm coming from. I've designed nearly 100 designs for this contest so far, and I plan on doing a lot more. Thanks for reading.


I'm glad you've spoken to this issue James and spoken quite eloquently too, I might add. I am extremely happy to hear that all this venom week after week has not dampened your spirits, and you are not considering leaving us again for I would be a very sad Wooter if that were to happen.

I do not like all of your entries, for sure, but it is usually because of the subject matter, not because of the artwork involved. This week's entry is a case in point. I am not a fan of gamer shirts. But it is very well done.

I am the proud owner of more than a couple JamesCho shirts, and I hope to own quite a lot more in the future. Keep your chin up and your tablet working!

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
KenSPT wrote:
Even Adder has ADMITTED to not speaking out against the design in hopes of not upsetting Cho. Adder would have tattled INSTANTLY if anyone else designed this !!!


Er, no. I actually very rarely tattle on anything, and while it's obvious what everything on this shirt relates to, there's not a whole lot to pin a tattle on, since cho clearly took pains to make the characters unique. As for "not speaking out," I don't think my comment was any less clear.

Trust me, among the thousands of things you don't know, I will grant you a clue on one: if I'm going to tattle on a design, I will very likely not comment on it. The tattles are private. If this upsets you, petition woot to make them public, so they can stir up even more drama.

And, again, what need does spryte or anyone have to comment toward a design you dislike? I'm not here as an all-purpose hater, and anyone who actually reads my comments would know as much. If I have given opinions on other designs, it does not mean I am needed to give opinions on all designs... If I, or anyone, has little to say, why bother saying it? I don't bother ripping apart every design of the designers I DONT respect, yet you spend so much time tearing on Cho every week, despite insisting that you find him talented. Surely, as i respect the man as an artist, my commentary is not needed when I'm less than thrilled with his work, with such hotheads constantly at his throat. We're all free agents (except for the people who throw their votes to whoever asks for them, and they all hate cho with you)... none of us have any obligation to comment as you wish, especially when your entreaties are so biased.

ign22401


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ign22401
jamescho84 wrote:...long post...


Nice post. I could comment on a lot, but really, this thing has gotten out of hand. I think Brick killed a man with a trident.

I'll just say that unless this is your source of primary income, you can choose to design for yourself and hope others like it rather than resorting to pandering. I think that's where we differ at the core. I'd take more pride in a design I like that gets 20 votes and is promptly forgotten than make an average videogame shirt and net $1000. "Win at all costs" isn't what I like, and with woot putting recent holds on both asphalt tees and vg shirts... I hope they do reject this one. This may be a democratic vote, but woot does have the power to shape the culture that exists here.

Good luck either way. I look forward to seeing your designs each week, regardless of whether or not I'd buy them.

jamescho84


quality posts: 2 Private Messages jamescho84
ign22401 wrote:Nice post. I could comment on a lot, but really, this thing has gotten out of hand. I think Brick killed a man with a trident.

I'll just say that unless this is your source of primary income, you can choose to design for yourself and hope others like it rather than resorting to pandering. I think that's where we differ at the core. I'd take more pride in a design I like that gets 20 votes and is promptly forgotten than make an average videogame shirt and net $1000. "Win at all costs" isn't what I like, and with woot putting recent holds on both asphalt tees and vg shirts... I hope they do reject this one. This may be a democratic vote, but woot does have the power to shape the culture that exists here.

Good luck either way. I look forward to seeing your designs each week, regardless of whether or not I'd buy them.


Thanks, i appreciate the comment. I think you're missing the critical point of my post - and that is that you can design for yourself while keeping others in mind as well. After the Poe shirts dominating one week, we've seen a rise in literary refs - we can call that pandering, but i'd like to think that people hold a connection to the authors they love. It's not black and white, as I think you're making it out to be.
I didn't enter in the mothers day derby, so i wasn't too aware of the ban on asphalt / vg designs - so I'm a little sorry about subbing without much buffer time. Win at all costs isn't what it is, I don't see what's wrong with what I did with duck hunt {as i loved playing that game} as i did here - and considering out of 87 designs i've done, with this included, makes 2 video game shirts - so it's something i've wanted to do for some time. I have pride in all the designs I do, and I like all the subjects I design - if I didn't .. why exactly would I be doing it? For money? I've been here since the prize was 200 dollars - and I submitted way more back then. It's really not one way or the other, my point was to simply keep in mind the people who are voting - and not to be discouraged if people don't take well to your designs if you're thinking only of yourself.

If woot does decide to reject it, i'm sorry for the people who wanted it, but it's no big deal. Just like them making a new ban in the middle of a derby about flying penguins was no big deal to me either. Thanks for the luck.

geekfactor12


quality posts: 11 Private Messages geekfactor12
ign22401 wrote:I'll just say that unless this is your source of primary income, you can choose to design for yourself and hope others like it rather than resorting to pandering. I think that's where we differ at the core. I'd take more pride in a design I like that gets 20 votes and is promptly forgotten than make an average videogame shirt and net $1000. "Win at all costs" isn't what I like, and with woot putting recent holds on both asphalt tees and vg shirts... I hope they do reject this one. This may be a democratic vote, but woot does have the power to shape the culture that exists here.


This entire pandering issue gets weirder and weirder to me every week. The reason doing popular things is pandering is because a lot of people like them and will vote for them. But if something is popular, then obviously a lot of the designers submitting will also like that subject matter. So where's the harm?

For whatever reason, Woot has set up this contest from the beginning to be a popular vote. Popular concepts and styles are going to win, which is great for Woot because that's the stuff that brings in the most cash and makes the most customers happy.

Because this is all determined by a popular vote, every artist in this contest who wants to win (or even just perform well) is going to evolve their style in a way to meet the demands of this audience. For example, Jimiyo moved away from his more complicated collages to enter more cartoony work in the derby. Tgentry has submitted shirts with Lincoln and Poe as central figures. It's something I did as well, moving away from the crazier color palettes I favored in earlier derbies to more subdued palettes that have been more warmly received by voters.

To me, that's not negative. That's figuring out what works, and moving in that direction. I think my work has been getting better every derby, due largely to the direct (comments) and indirect (votes) feedback that I get from the community every week. It makes me feel good when my stuff actually gets printed, too, because then I know that actual people bought them and are wearing them. If I don't judge the market appropriately (in terms of both concept and execution), then I've failed before I've even started. If I was in this purely to make a pretty picture that never got printed on fabric, I'd be over at DeviantArt or something instead of competing in an apparel contest.

Webfoot08


quality posts: 6 Private Messages Webfoot08
geekfactor12 wrote:This entire pandering issue gets weirder and weirder to me every week. The reason doing popular things is pandering is because a lot of people like them and will vote for them. But if something is popular, then obviously a lot of the designers submitting will also like that subject matter. So where's the harm? (etc.)


I figure anyone who can figure out what voters want is a genius. Not many here have found that pulse, but lots of people are looking.

jesusbeard


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jesusbeard
Re: Alpha Battle


Damn cho you're shirt might be the first shirt I've bought in 5 months unless something good pops up this week. Note maybe this is just me but Xavier's face looked like a dog.

mer

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
ign22401 wrote:Nice post. I could comment on a lot, but really, this thing has gotten out of hand. I think Brick killed a man with a trident.

I'll just say that unless this is your source of primary income, you can choose to design for yourself and hope others like it rather than resorting to pandering. I think that's where we differ at the core. I'd take more pride in a design I like that gets 20 votes and is promptly forgotten than make an average videogame shirt and net $1000. "Win at all costs" isn't what I like, and with woot putting recent holds on both asphalt tees and vg shirts... I hope they do reject this one. This may be a democratic vote, but woot does have the power to shape the culture that exists here.

Good luck either way. I look forward to seeing your designs each week, regardless of whether or not I'd buy them.


I don't think you read the post. Cho put a lot of thought and effort into this design. While to you it may seem like pandering, the subject matter is something he loves. If he is proud of his work, I'm sure he takes pride in this design as well.

As for the recent bans, those were derby-specific and not permanent rules. There had been a rash of asphalt tees (and, ironically, woot sold several asphalt dailies around the time of the ban). Do you expect Cho to design on the same colours all the time? The guy moves all over the palette, choosing what he thinks works best for that particular design. Similarly, the video game reference ban for the motherhood derby was probably put in place because there are a number of video game shirts high up on the reckoning list (i.e. fablefire's Zelda and Cho's duck hunt shirts). Not only that, the purpose of the derby was likely to turn out a design or two that mothers would actually wear (and thus be valid presents for children to purchase). In general, woot probably decided that video games would not hold the sort of relevance they were looking for in such a derby. These bans have nothing to do with this derby.

The only possible reasons for which I could see this design being rejected are for repeated letters or for copyright infringement. I don't think the latter is likely - the tetris blocks are clearly meant as just tetris blocks, not letters. As for the latter, I see this design as parody. Others may disagree, but our opinion on that matter is moot - it's up to woot and their legal team to figure it out.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
jesusbeard wrote:Damn cho you're shirt might be the first shirt I've bought in 5 months unless something good pops up this week. Note maybe this is just me but Xavier's face looked like a dog.


I can see it too (though it looks more like a bear to me), but it's only when I glance it or look too carefully at it. Otherwise, I can tell that the professor just has cartoon hands on his head and has his mouth open - he has a headache or something.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

jandt4ever07


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jandt4ever07
eHalcyon wrote:I can see it too (though it looks more like a bear to me), but it's only when I glance it or look too carefully at it. Otherwise, I can tell that the professor just has cartoon hands on his head and has his mouth open - he has a headache or something.


L O L I thought it was a panda!! *giggles*

~By Edgar R. Mcherly

jabbasi


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jabbasi
Re: Alpha Battle


I Really Need this shirt!

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30 Shirts for Myself (15 Random)
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Most Recent Purchase: Random x3

dea007


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dea007
jamescho84 wrote:
I didn't enter in the mothers day derby, so i wasn't too aware of the ban on asphalt / vg designs - so I'm a little sorry about subbing without much buffer time. Win at all costs isn't what it is, I don't see what's wrong with what I did with duck hunt {as i loved playing that game} as i did here - and considering out of 87 designs i've done, with this included, makes 2 video game shirts - so it's something i've wanted to do for some time. I have pride in all the designs I do, and I like all the subjects I design - if I didn't .. why exactly would I be doing it? For money? I've been here since the prize was 200 dollars - and I submitted way more back then. It's really not one way or the other, my point was to simply keep in mind the people who are voting - and not to be discouraged if people don't take well to your designs if you're thinking only of yourself.



I just wanted to say that I missed you in the mothers derby. None of the designs quite clicked with me and I kept thinking, "Hey, maybe Cho's come out with something fantastic." Anyways, I also thought that Duck Hunt was absolutely brilliant. This current shirt isn't quite my style, so it won't get my vote, but I'm glad that you keep submitting. I'm always entertained by what you come up with.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
gvw47 wrote:Jokes don't get any older than the SamoaJane one. The Cho-defender without a sense of humor strikes again.


I've noticed that when Jane shows up, Joe does not. Perhaps this is really performance art by one person.

macntosh


quality posts: 0 Private Messages macntosh
mjc613 wrote:I've noticed that when Jane shows up, Joe does not. Perhaps this is really performance art by one person.


Or maybe she just keeps him in his place. She may wear the pants in that family!

Lighter


quality posts: 10 Private Messages Lighter
mjc613 wrote:I've noticed that when Jane shows up, Joe does not. Perhaps this is really performance art by one person.

The Joe sock puppet is on probation for a few more hours. "Joe" should be rearing to post - or, at least, post using a sock puppet that isn't on probation!

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
jesusbeard wrote:Damn cho you're shirt might be the first shirt I've bought in 5 months unless something good pops up this week. Note maybe this is just me but Xavier's face looked like a dog.


I saw it too, glad to know i am not the only one. I think it still works though.

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
snarkygal wrote:I'm glad you've spoken to this issue James and spoken quite eloquently too, I might add. I am extremely happy to hear that all this venom week after week has not dampened your spirits, and you are not considering leaving us again for I would be a very sad Wooter if that were to happen.

I do not like all of your entries, for sure, but it is usually because of the subject matter, not because of the artwork involved. This week's entry is a case in point. I am not a fan of gamer shirts. But it is very well done.

I am the proud owner of more than a couple JamesCho shirts, and I hope to own quite a lot more in the future. Keep your chin up and your tablet working!


Ditto.

dekonstruct


quality posts: 3 Private Messages dekonstruct
Re: Alpha Battle


Ah, ok so the magical rules of parody might save this shirt, that's cool. I may have to sprinkle some parody on my shirts next time, don't know why it didn't occur to me before.

TurboGraphx16


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TurboGraphx16
Re: Alpha Battle


I haven't said a thing about this shirt, because the drama on these boards is sometimes ridiculous.

Case in point; this thread.

Anyhoo, I really like this shirt, and would consider buying one. However, I don't really think it's a parody since all the characters are immediately recognizable. You can clearly see that it's Master Chief, Mario, etc.

Throwing different characters from different universes on the same shirt doesn't make it a parody, doing something clever with them does. While this is a great shirt, it's not really doing anything clever with the characters besides lumping them all together.

If Master Chief, was cooking Yoshi on a grill while Mario and Luigi, were eating him off of Tetris blocks and Donkey Kong poured drinks from a barrel ... then it would be a clever parody.

Anyways, all that stuff aside, this shirt could possibly become my first Woot. Good job Cho !!!

Amach06


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Amach06
Wappl169 wrote:I agree with the comments about Adder, seems to be that you dont want to upset the flow of Cho. Personally I think Adder and Cho are on the take from Woot. It's a conspiracy I tell ya.

Seriously, this shirt has 2 T's and 2 L's on it, which is against the rules for this week. Other shirts have already been rejected because of this, but this shirt has remained ? Rules are rules and EVERYONE needs to abide by them regardless of who you are.


Okay i would just like to point out a couple things here... The letter T and the letter L can be found multiple times in everons drawing. How many times do perpendicular lines meet in a single drawing that can be deemed the letter l or t? I am just saying. I can "pretend" to see them all over. Fact of the matter is those blocks are just blocks.

Well there is always next year....

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
Amach06 wrote:Okay i would just like to point out a couple things here... The letter T and the letter L can be found multiple times in everons drawing. How many times do perpendicular lines meet in a single drawing that can be deemed the letter l or t? I am just saying. I can "pretend" to see them all over. Fact of the matter is those blocks are just blocks.


Exactly, very well put!

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
Wappl169 wrote:Other shirts have already been rejected because of this, but this shirt has remained ? Rules are rules and EVERYONE needs to abide by them regardless of who you are.


As this was submitted over the weekend (sat morning) it wouldn't have been rejected yet if they decided it violates rules. It would only be rejected once they start making rejections with the start of this week. Woot may still reject it, though they may not think it violates rules, and then would not. It is up to woot to decide what the rules are, how they are enforced and who they deem to have violated their rules. As can be seen in this thread how the rules are interpreted is very subjective.

SailorButterfly


quality posts: 14 Private Messages SailorButterfly
Wappl169 wrote:Can someone explain to me why Pac Man shirts are ALWAYS rejected but the "likeness" of many other video games is not rejected?


I'm pretty sure Pac Man shirts are rejected mainly because they've printed one before.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Most Awesome Butterfly-Sailor Hybrid on Woot"

cjkyle


quality posts: 2 Private Messages cjkyle

N is my favorite hehehe sneaky sneaky

AdderXYU


quality posts: 38 Private Messages AdderXYU
SailorButterfly wrote:I'm pretty sure Pac Man shirts are rejected mainly because they've printed one before.


I'd like to think it's also because anyone can make a circle with a chunk taken out of it. And indeed, many did.

eyeslikesugar


quality posts: 2 Private Messages eyeslikesugar
shan24 wrote:I have to say that this is one of my favorite Cho shirts. It's not necessarily the detailed style we are used to from Cho but it's the subject matter that makes this one of my favorites. I grew up with these games, thanks in large part to my brother, and I think a lot of people are nostalgiac for all these old games. I would probably buy this even though I already own the Delicious shirt which has the same sort of composition. I had Excitebike (I believe that's a hill from Excitebike, not a Triforce), I played Donkey Kong at the arcade, played all the Mario and Zelda incarnations, etc. so wearing this shirt would mean more to me than the Treacherous Waters shirt that to me is about fishing (my husband owns that one).

I feel sorry for James and commend him for not responding to all these posts, as judging from the past I am sure he wants to do. It seems like half the comments are about how MegaMan isn't blue and Yoshi looks a little different, and the other half is worried about how similar his design is to the originals and calling copyright issues. In my opinion this is the artist's interpretation of the characters and most of the votes are because of its overall look and the nostalgia factor, not because of who designed it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just wanted to get mine out here. And those are Tetris pieces, not an L and a T.


Just catching up on the drama.. (staying away this week) and I had to say.. thank you for sitting down and thinking before typing. I agree. =D

-James Cho -EdgarRMcherly Shirt.Woot.Com - Ye Oldest Sucker - 2009

Wappl169


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Wappl169
Amach06 wrote:Okay i would just like to point out a couple things here... The letter T and the letter L can be found multiple times in everons drawing. How many times do perpendicular lines meet in a single drawing that can be deemed the letter l or t? I am just saying. I can "pretend" to see them all over. Fact of the matter is those blocks are just blocks.


Pretend all you want that the tetris T and L do not look like the alphabet T and L.
I am thinking this issue (of letters/tetris shapes) could of solved this by putting the tetris T & L at a different angle.

gacibula


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gacibula

Email nintendo... llo I'm sure they've got bigger things to worry about like ohhh I dunno, how their virtual console just got hacked and now everyone is pirating their downloadable store games. Or how they've lost 774,000,000 dollars over the past 4 years due to piracy.

I DOUBT they would take a 2nd look at a fan based shirt... good lord.

SamoaJoe


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SamoaJoe

Welcome to the world of Woot, the rules for one don't apply for the other.

I agree, I'm also going to send an email to the Nintendo people if this gets printed. I think I'll also email Microsoft as well, since Master Chief is copyrighted as well. Hopefully they'll give Woot a ton of carp for using their characters without permission.

This not being rejected for copyright is insane. Woot should be ashamed of themselves.

VOTE FOR DEREK !!!

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dea007


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dea007
SamoaJoe wrote:Welcome to the world of Woot, the rules for one don't apply for the other.

I agree, I'm also going to send an email to the Nintendo people if this gets printed. I think I'll also email Microsoft as well, since Master Chief is copyrighted as well. Hopefully they'll give Woot a ton of carp for using their characters without permission.

This not being rejected for copyright is insane. Woot should be ashamed of themselves.


I think that SamoaJoe and Jerrysfinalthought = same person with too much time on their hands. Seriously, your wife, SamoaJane, said the lawn needs to be mowed.

superspryte


quality posts: 21 Private Messages superspryte

Volunteer Moderator

dea007 wrote:I think that SamoaJoe and Jerrysfinalthought = same person with too much time on their hands. Seriously, your wife, SamoaJane, said the lawn needs to be mowed.

I can tell you with all certainty that they are not the same person.

w: 7 | t.w: 1 | h.w: 1 | tg.w: 0 | sp.w: 0 | a.w: 0 | k.w: 0 | s.w: 15 | w.w: 15 | so.w: 2

folkkevi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages folkkevi
Re: Alpha Battle


The copyright stuff shouldn't be an issue, these are cartooned and should be well protected by parody law. However, i feel that the biggest issue here is with the design itself. It does not seem incredibly inspired to me, maybe because i am not a huge fan of video game shirts, maybe because i like more desingerly images, either way this isnt for me. I wouldn't be suprised if this was riding pretty heavily on cho's previous success. As for the legal stuff, that sounds like a few people grasping at straws.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
SamoaJoe wrote:Welcome to the world of Woot, the rules for one don't apply for the other.

I agree, I'm also going to send an email to the Nintendo people if this gets printed. I think I'll also email Microsoft as well, since Master Chief is copyrighted as well. Hopefully they'll give Woot a ton of carp for using their characters without permission.

This not being rejected for copyright is insane. Woot should be ashamed of themselves.


The rules apply to everyone. You act like Cho has never had a shirt rejected before. The Power Rangers shirts were rejected because there was no element of parody at all. Most of us see parody in this shirt. Some disagree. I respect those opinions (most of them, anyway). Ultimately, it's up to woot to decide if this shirt is a parody or not.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
folkkevi wrote:The copyright stuff shouldn't be an issue, these are cartooned and should be well protected by parody law. However, i feel that the biggest issue here is with the design itself. It does not seem incredibly inspired to me, maybe because i am not a huge fan of video game shirts, maybe because i like more desingerly images, either way this isnt for me. I wouldn't be suprised if this was riding pretty heavily on cho's previous success. As for the legal stuff, that sounds like a few people grasping at straws.


I've never understood the theory that designs get votes because of the designer. I've become a fan of many designers here, including Cho, but that doesn't mean I vote for their designs all the time. I haven't voted for this one because it doesn't quite click with me. The only way I could ever see myself voting for a design just because of the designer is I was a good friend of the designer, and even then I wouldn't vote if the shirt was absolutely terrible. As popular as Cho may be, I doubt that he knows a thousand people on woot personally.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
SamoaJoe wrote:
I agree, I'm also going to send an email to the Nintendo people if this gets printed. I think I'll also email Microsoft as well, since Master Chief is copyrighted as well. Hopefully they'll give Woot a ton of carp for using their characters without permission.

This not being rejected for copyright is insane. Woot should be ashamed of themselves.

Writing letters is a personal choice obviously, and something no one will try to prevent. But consider 2 things: 1 - before Woot prints this, they will have their lawyers give them the OK. (They have pulled a design after voting was complete at least once.) and 2- Do you really think Nintendo and Microsoft will pay attention to a guy who's alias is based on a Girl Scout cookie?

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
mjc613 wrote:Writing letters is a personal choice obviously, and something no one will try to prevent. But consider 2 things: 1 - before Woot prints this, they will have their lawyers give them the OK. (They have pulled a design after voting was complete at least once.) and 2- Do you really think Nintendo and Microsoft will pay attention to a guy who's alias is based on a Girl Scout cookie?


Although I am not associated with SamoaJoe in any way, other than sharing portions of a name, I will point out the existence of American Samoa, whose president is George W Bush, and is a US territory located somewhere in the pacific ocean.

folkkevi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages folkkevi
eHalcyon wrote:I've never understood the theory that designs get votes because of the designer. I've become a fan of many designers here, including Cho, but that doesn't mean I vote for their designs all the time. I haven't voted for this one because it doesn't quite click with me. The only way I could ever see myself voting for a design just because of the designer is I was a good friend of the designer, and even then I wouldn't vote if the shirt was absolutely terrible. As popular as Cho may be, I doubt that he knows a thousand people on woot personally.


I'm not saying this shirt is in the lead by virtue of cho's name. I was only suggesting that it was probably helping an otherwise lackluster design. Cho has a fanbase it seems, and for good reason, he is a fantastic designer and artist, and does some beautiful renderings. However, i fear people get too attached to the designer to some extent, becuase in my opinion i would see no other way for a design like this to make it this high against some of the much more designerly and more carefully executed images below it. People have every right to vote for this design if they plan to buy it, and i am sure a good number of them will, but i will not be one of them.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
folkkevi wrote:I'm not saying this shirt is in the lead by virtue of cho's name. I was only suggesting that it was probably helping an otherwise lackluster design. Cho has a fanbase it seems, and for good reason, he is a fantastic designer and artist, and does some beautiful renderings. However, i fear people get too attached to the designer to some extent, becuase in my opinion i would see no other way for a design like this to make it this high against some of the much more designerly and more carefully executed images below it. People have every right to vote for this design if they plan to buy it, and i am sure a good number of them will, but i will not be one of them.


For this particular shirt, I think the driving force isn't the design (which is good, but definitely not Cho's best) but the topic.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

mjc613


quality posts: 48 Private Messages mjc613
eHalcyon wrote:For this particular shirt, I think the driving force isn't the design (which is good, but definitely not Cho's best) but the topic.


Not to mention the "I'll show you "votes in response to all the invective.

folkkevi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages folkkevi
eHalcyon wrote:For this particular shirt, I think the driving force isn't the design (which is good, but definitely not Cho's best) but the topic.


I agree with you there, the topic can do nothing but help in this case. This makes me a bit sad, as there is an absolute sea of gamer-tshirts out there, but not nearly as many authentically artistic or interesting designs. Still, you can't blame cho for making an image that will sell t-shirts, or woot for their likely print of it. I could certainlly stand to learn a thing or two about salesmanship for cho, but i think this design could be much stronger. It is what my design prof. would have called a "quick read". It doesn't take more than a few seconds to understand the concept, and the execution of the design, and the elements, their placements, and the choices involved don't do a whole lot to challange the initial read. The design as a whole tends to be less interesting, attention-grabing, and authentic in my opinion. But, that is my opinion, and as i said, I could learn a thing from cho about saleability.

eHalcyon


quality posts: 66 Private Messages eHalcyon
folkkevi wrote:I agree with you there, the topic can do nothing but help in this case. This makes me a bit sad, as there is an absolute sea of gamer-tshirts out there, but not nearly as many authentically artistic or interesting designs. Still, you can't blame cho for making an image that will sell t-shirts, or woot for their likely print of it. I could certainlly stand to learn a thing or two about salesmanship for cho, but i think this design could be much stronger. It is what my design prof. would have called a "quick read". It doesn't take more than a few seconds to understand the concept, and the execution of the design, and the elements, their placements, and the choices involved don't do a whole lot to challange the initial read. The design as a whole tends to be less interesting, attention-grabing, and authentic in my opinion. But, that is my opinion, and as i said, I could learn a thing from cho about saleability.


Though many will disagree, I don't see this as pandering or simple "salesmanship" at all. In a rare comment, Cho explained the inspiration behind this particular design:

jamescho84 wrote:As for this video game shirt? I grew up with these video games. There are one or two I haven't touched on this list, but I loved almost all of these games. When I thought about this theme, I figured the only way to create a good shirt would be to follow the route of the Alphabet Zoo design from threadless. Which is to have a composition of elements with a common theme. Before I designed this, I asked myself if this would be something i'd wear, then asked if it would be something others would wear - and both answers came to yes so I started sketching it out. Personally, I love video game shirts, and have bought most of the ones this site has offered so far - It goes well with all the quakecon shirts I have and the bfg tech shirts I got when I was competing back in high school days. I however, am not too cultured or sophisticated, so I don't own shirts with literary references, or think I would want to {no offense travis, I still love you and voted for you :}} - so I besides my Moby beautiful tulip shirt (which in my defense, ahab had a butterfly net) I don't think i'd make something very high-brow, or what some of you posters might be looking for. Point is, I have no problem designing shirts that others would want as well as I would want.

(Unofficial) Derby Rules (outdated?)
Designing for the Derby (definitely outdated)
Tips for New Designers (always useful)

blahmcblah


quality posts: 5 Private Messages blahmcblah
folkkevi wrote:I'm not saying this shirt is in the lead by virtue of cho's name. I was only suggesting that it was probably helping an otherwise lackluster design. Cho has a fanbase it seems, and for good reason, he is a fantastic designer and artist, and does some beautiful renderings. However, i fear people get too attached to the designer to some extent, becuase in my opinion i would see no other way for a design like this to make it this high against some of the much more designerly and more carefully executed images below it. People have every right to vote for this design if they plan to buy it, and i am sure a good number of them will, but i will not be one of them.


I believe that using six colors for twenty-six distinct video game characters/objects indicates pretty carefully executed design.


brizz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages brizz
talbotini wrote:I think people just log on each week, look for Cho's design(s) and vote for them. Just because they are his. He has made some awesome designs, but this weeks shirt is proof that he can design whatever the heck he wants and it will win. Throw in a handful of video game references, and everyone else might as well resign.


you have noticed the DOZENS upon DOZENS of entries he's done that didn't win right? and that he rarely takes first, but his derby prints are usually 2nd or 3rd place. This anti-cho movement here is so delusional it's hilarious. People only see what they want to see.

It's a funny shirt, that parodies beautifully all those characters of us 30-something's youth in one grand battle. It's so obviously parody, it only highlights the sheer pathological dislike ken and his ilk have for cho out of what can only be jealousy. there simply is no other way to define it.

You go cho....

lunartan


quality posts: 1 Private Messages lunartan

I personally have nothing against Cho's obvious talent. I own one of his shirts and like it very much. My only criticism is that in my opinion he hasn't been very creative with some of his recent entries and it's perhaps more of a critique on wooters' tastes and voting habits.

Using Threadless as inspiration for this design, which is just an admitted video game-themed take on alphabet zoo seems uninspired imo - even with the parody and "grand" battle. Especially when compared to some of the other entries & some of Cho's past ones, as well - again imo. To use another tee-shirt site as inspiration seems like taking the easy route, so do video game themes.

Personally, I just feel for the other artists on this site that seem to let their inner creative spirits dictate what they produce and submit each week. While I get the feeling that some of Cho's entries are simply "designed to win," thus the "pandering" comment. Maybe, he's just closer to or more in touch with the average woot voter than some of the other artists, thus identifies more with their tastes. That theory appears to make sense and I have to applaud him for his shrewdness. Maybe he's just learned through months and months of trial and error what it takes to get printed here...
I understand that winning is one of the points of the derbies, it does net those that print $1k. I just hope seeing trite themes being printed (although well executed) as well as clever ideas (even if poorly executed) doesn't dissuade other artists on this site from continuing to produce and submit creative entries, that in the end are competing for the remaining fog spots: tgentry, sokowa, edgar, dsladek, skaght, redghia, kls, soothed, geekfactor, daeudalus, and many others that I have failed to mention or misspell (sorry). Such is shirt.woot.com.

Again, imo there are artists as well as designers on this site, and I just happen to prefer the artists. I just hope they don't get discouraged and decide to move on and take their creative efforts with them. The hopes that one of their entries that I like in any particular week gets printed is pretty much why I frequent this site... that and some occasional cheap electronic carp I don't really need.

As a pure consumer on this site, I hope everyone and their mother continues to make derby submissions week in and week out. I enjoy looking at the vast array of entries and sometimes get a chance to pick up a very cool, original tee for $10.

Just my elaboration and personal response to some recent trends/printings, as well as an effort to try and get "more" from Cho and his talent. I'm sure he has at least another design in him that I will purchase sometime down the line. It just isn't going to be a penguin, video game, or cat; but then again he doesn't really need my vote or $10 to be successful on this site. I'm just trying to make it all about me, my ideals, and my $10... just like the rest of us.

mia3mom


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mia3mom
eHalcyon wrote:I've never understood the theory that designs get votes because of the designer. I've become a fan of many designers here, including Cho, but that doesn't mean I vote for their designs all the time. I haven't voted for this one because it doesn't quite click with me. The only way I could ever see myself voting for a design just because of the designer is I was a good friend of the designer, and even then I wouldn't vote if the shirt was absolutely terrible. As popular as Cho may be, I doubt that he knows a thousand people on woot personally.


There are a lot of artists I really like. However, I don't like every single design they create. I comment on the ones I love, and I just don't say anything on the ones that I don't want. I've got a few votes in our house, and only one of 3 voted for this shirt - my husband loves video games, but my daughters and I don't. 3/3 voted for Treacherous Wave, though.

IMHO if my Oldest (10) can decide not to vote for something because she doesn't like the design, but loves the designer, adults can do the same. And yes, she did that this derby - even for my younger 2 it's about the design, not the designer.

James, you did a great job of explaining your creative process, and it was fascinating to read. I'm sorry that you are getting hassled, and am impressed that you don't try to counter each argument.

& the Gaggle of Girls; so many shirts, so little space in the dresser!

afb264


quality posts: 0 Private Messages afb264

oh the silliness....

cleverconveyence


quality posts: 1 Private Messages cleverconveyence

Funny you say that, considering Nintendo just reported a $4.7 billion profit. recently.

Number of shirt.woots in 08: 23 (not counting randoms and shirts bought for friends)
number of shirt.woots in 09: 2 (same criteria)

cleverconveyence


quality posts: 1 Private Messages cleverconveyence

Funny you say that, considering Nintendo just reported a $4.7 billion profit. recently.

Number of shirt.woots in 08: 23 (not counting randoms and shirts bought for friends)
number of shirt.woots in 09: 2 (same criteria)

mhpatel


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mhpatel
Re: Alpha Battle


Cho... you should call all your shirts "joints" from now on.

This is a JamesCho84 Joint. And it's sweet.

Also sometimes I want to vote for you just because you cause drama and I find it entertaining to read while I am having coffee.

Amach06


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Amach06
Re: Alpha Battle


Best shirt ever!

Well there is always next year....

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
Wappl169 wrote:Pretend all you want that the tetris T and L do not look like the alphabet T and L.
I am thinking this issue (of letters/tetris shapes) could of solved this by putting the tetris T & L at a different angle.



Not to be difficult, but things can look like an alphabet "T" and "L" not not be part of the alphabet. I am sure you could look at many other designs and see shapes that resemble letters hidden in the pictures. Though admittedly, having them at an angle would have diminished that problem. Maybe different Tetris pieces may have helped too, though the others may look like and S, I, or O.

Also, (not specifically directed at Wapp) I feel compelled to say in response to the people complaining about how unfair it is that this is rejected when others are, this designer has had a shirt rejected in the middle of a derby because a rule was added during the middle of that derby (see the line art derby) banning references to penguins flying, and the artist didn't complain (that I noticed). Woot had no problem rejecting the shirt, even though it was popular when it was rejected. So, if they thought this shirt broke rules, they would reject it.

Additionally, if you are going to talk about woot not being fair in rejections (specifically that jamescho gets away with things other designers don't), the designer in question has been the only one to have a shirt specifically targeted for rejection (see example above) that I have seen, but then I haven't been around forever

It's woot's derby and woot's rules. We can all complain when the shirts we don't like do well and win, or when the shirts we do like don't win or are rejected, but ultimately we aren't the ones with a shirt competition. Ultimately this is all supposed to be fun. Though, it is good to see that the tone of this thread has changed a grate deal from the weekend.

kwilder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kwilder
kwilder wrote:
to the people complaining about how unfair it is that this is rejected when others are,


Oops, I had meant to say "how unfair it is that this ISN'T rejected when others are"

Sorry

Foo228


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Foo228

Props cho, another very creative shirt made for the theme of the week

I'm just hoping it goes through.

Gyrolin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Gyrolin
jimiyo wrote:i licked the screen. your design is not salty.


LMAO

AgentSnoop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages AgentSnoop
Re: Alpha Battle


I do like the design, something I'd probably wear.

llonvent


quality posts: 0 Private Messages llonvent
mia3mom wrote:There are a lot of artists I really like. However, I don't like every single design they create. I comment on the ones I love, and I just don't say anything on the ones that I don't want. I've got a few votes in our house, and only one of 3 voted for this shirt - my husband loves video games, but my daughters and I don't. 3/3 voted for Treacherous Wave, though.

IMHO if my Oldest (10) can decide not to vote for something because she doesn't like the design, but loves the designer, adults can do the same. And yes, she did that this derby - even for my younger 2 it's about the design, not the designer.

James, you did a grate job of explaining your creative process, and it was fascinating to read. I'm sorry that you are getting hassled, and am impressed that you don't try to counter each argument.


I'm confused and curious. Do your kids have their own woot account? How does that work? I'm intrigued. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding something here. Just struck me as odd.


On another note, I think the "Alphabet War" shirt does a much better job of showing an epic battle than this one. I don't care who the designer is. This shirt is mediocre at best. Not that my opinion matters of course, the masses have spoken.

mia3mom


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mia3mom
llonvent wrote:I'm confused and curious. Do your kids have their own woot account? How does that work? I'm intrigued. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding something here. Just struck me as odd.


Yep. My oldest even submitted a design in the year you were born derby. It, um, got a lot of comments. To reiterate what was said in that derby, I discuss the comments with them and filter them. We look through the designs together, and see what their favorite designers have done that week. I know it is not a kid's site, but I have geeky kids who like the site, and they are really happy and proud to have shirts from here. They get really excited about Derby topics, and always sketch a design at least once during the week.

As to the mechanics, I linked her email address to my paypal account, and she bought a shirt to add to her collection so she could vote. I know she isn't the only under-18 with a woot account, and also not the only under-18 to enter a design. I figure if each of my kids has 4 shirt.woots, then they have a vote.

& the Gaggle of Girls; so many shirts, so little space in the dresser!

Babylonian


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Babylonian

I don't care that it's another video game design. I must must MUST have this.

Babylonian


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Babylonian

And they aren't "poorly-drawn", they're stylized. For a bunch of elitists, you critics sure are overlooking the obvious.

Graye


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Graye
TurboGraphx16 wrote:I haven't said a thing about this shirt, because the drama on these boards is sometimes ridiculous.

Case in point; this thread.

Anyhoo, I really like this shirt, and would consider buying one. However, I don't really think it's a parody since all the characters are immediately recognizable. You can clearly see that it's Master Chief, Mario, etc.

Throwing different characters from different universes on the same shirt doesn't make it a parody, doing something clever with them does. While this is a grate shirt, it's not really doing anything clever with the characters besides lumping them all together.

If Master Chief, was cooking Yoshi on a grill while Mario and Luigi, were eating him off of Tetris blocks and Donkey Kong poured drinks from a barrel ... then it would be a clever parody.

Anyways, all that stuff aside, this shirt could possibly become my first Woot. Good job Cho !!!


I actually find it strange that you would give examples of using parody, yet don't see them within this design.

Ex:

1) Mega Man vs Master Chief in a gun fight, with Donkey Kong throwning a barrel on them.

2) Mario, Luigi, & Yoshi pulling a covered wagon from Oregon Trail.

3) Indiana Jones whipping away the Orc's axe from Warcraft

4) ExciteBike dude using the triforce as a ramp, while Virtua Fighter tries to jump-kick him,

5) Asteroids & Galga shuttles Vs Contra man & Quake, while pitfall dude swings over to attack Contra man..

etc....

The parody is there and sufficient.

No, I haven't voted for the design.

James did a good job with working with the 6 color limit for 26 games, and getting them all together doing something. The "T" and "L" issue falls on woot's thoughts. Since they are Tetris items and not attempting to be letters, it will probably pass. The rejections come when people try to bypass the rules of no, or limited text, by designing an image in the shape of a character. This does not include pure similarities, rather purposeful design where the character or characters are an integral part of the design. EG: Forever in Bluejeans

Well anywhoo, these rants are just too much. There will always be a handful of people that come in stirring up discontent on either side of the wall.

Leave the rulings and legal problems to Woot. They have a department to handle such things, and the more attention a design gets, the less likely they are to actually do something about it. Who wins in these derbies is decided by a faux democratic vote ruled over by Woot.

Look at the designs, vote for the ones you like, ignore the ones you don't like, and enjoy the day. =) If woot disappeared tomorrow it would just be one less bookmark in my web browser... no boiling seas of blood or fire falling from the sky. =P

TurboGraphx16


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TurboGraphx16
Graye wrote:I actually find it strange that you would give examples of using parody, yet don't see them within this design.

Ex:

1) Mega Man vs Master Chief in a gun fight, with Donkey Kong throwning a barrel on them.

2) Mario, Luigi, & Yoshi pulling a covered wagon from Oregon Trail.

3) Indiana Jones whipping away the Orc's axe from Warcraft

4) ExciteBike dude using the triforce as a ramp, while Virtua Fighter tries to jump-kick him,

5) Asteroids & Galga shuttles Vs Contra man & Quake, while pitfall dude swings over to attack Contra man..

etc....

The parody is there and sufficient.

No, I haven't voted for the design.

James did a good job with working with the 6 color limit for 26 games, and getting them all together doing something. The "T" and "L" issue falls on woot's thoughts. Since they are Tetris items and not attempting to be letters, it will probably pass. The rejections come when people try to bypass the rules of no, or limited text, by designing an image in the shape of a character. This does not include pure similarities, rather purposeful design where the character or characters are an integral part of the design. EG: Forever in Bluejeans

Well anywhoo, these rants are just too much. There will always be a handful of people that come in stirring up discontent on either side of the wall.

Leave the rulings and legal problems to Woot. They have a department to handle such things, and the more attention a design gets, the less likely they are to actually do something about it. Who wins in these derbies is decided by a faux democratic vote ruled over by Woot.

Look at the designs, vote for the ones you like, ignore the ones you don't like, and enjoy the day. =) If woot disappeared tomorrow it would just be one less bookmark in my web browser... no boiling seas of blood or fire falling from the sky. =P


Trust me, I don't care a fraction as much as alot of people here do. It's a shirt for pete's sake. I was simply giving my opinion, and I stand by that opinion, but really could care less either way. :-)

amcatanzaro


quality posts: 8 Private Messages amcatanzaro

I like this design, as I like almost all Cho designs, but I don't think I would wear this one. Even with Oregon Trail involved (I played that game for 2 years, straight, it's amazing that I passed 8th grade).
I am typically disappointed that Cho "hogs the fog" the designs that I would really really want come in 5th or 6th. The biggest complaint I have with Cho designs is that they are usually too huge on the shirt.
Maybe as a solultion to this problem is that once a week (or once every two weeks) for the daily we get a Cho design. I think this would thrill the Cho supporters and at least quiet down the people who hate on him.
Bonus, the shirt could be a complete surprise every week!

I wasn't going to stay up. Drat! Foiled again!

Travel in style! Travel in a Woot shirt!

burtonrider404


quality posts: 0 Private Messages burtonrider404
Re: Alpha Battle


t-shirts, you all are talking about t-shirts. do you realize this? wow....................................

MOSMaster


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MOSMaster
burtonrider404 wrote:t-shirts, you all are talking about t-shirts. do you realize this? wow....................................


I agree! Dude this is a t shirt design contest! Chilllll and enjoy the fun of this design.

I mean lets face it there is no work of art submitted for this derby, how serious can you take this subject? The ABC's it's slightly childish, hence video games. I personally love all video games including 80's video games so Duh GMV!

As far as the pandering? OF COURSE YOU ALL SUBMIT TO WIN AND MAKE MONEY! DUH! If I had an artistic bone in my body damn staight I would be aiming for the popular vote! HELLO!

Again you all need to chill, do you realize this thread ha taken me to hours to read so much hatred. I always believed artsy people were calm, cool, and chil!

Caligumby


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Caligumby

I bet cho LOVES the controversy that goes behind every single shirt that he puts up. It not only shows that people watch his work, but he gets constant advertisement from everyone which is only getting more people to look at his shirts.

Howard Stern is one of the most hated and loved DJs on the planet and a large portion of his audience tune in BECAUSE they hate him. In this case, the forum trolls are constantly commenting on Cho's design thus forcing people to see it and see it again and the only person at the end of the week that is laughing is Cho and his growing bank account.

I admire the fact that he has the intestinal fortitude to stay away from posting in his shirt controversies. It shows he is a strong artist who understands the game. Besides that, why should he lower himself to the level of some of the people that comment here?

astronautcowboy3


quality posts: 0 Private Messages astronautcowboy3

The letter placement on this shirt is very awkward and nonsensical. It's no different from the shirts that have A next to something that starts with the letter "a" except that it has to do with video games. I think I would be disappointed if this shirt won.

herrerafamily


quality posts: 0 Private Messages herrerafamily

[I love this shirt!]Re: Alpha Battle
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